Re: Proposal: Jenkins Browser Support policy updates

2019-11-20 Thread Oleg Nenashev 
The policy change has been approved by the Governance meeting.
Taking the consensus here, I went ahead and merged 
https://github.com/jenkins-infra/jenkins.io/pulls

Thanks all!

On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 11:42:46 PM UTC+1, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
>
> Since we have a Governance meeting tomorrow, I have added this topic to 
> the agenda so that we can formally confirm the changes
>
> https://wiki.jenkins.io/display/JENKINS/Governance+Meeting+Agenda#GovernanceMeetingAgenda-November20
>
> On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 2:07:53 PM UTC+1, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
>>
>> Implemented all the discussed changes in  
>> https://github.com/jenkins-infra/jenkins.io/pull/2659 .
>> Will appreciate reviews
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 1:40 PM Baptiste Mathus  
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 2:03 PM Oleg Nenashev  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Personally I think Microsoft Edge (Chromium) should be Level 1 as it 
> will be coming out in January and, as far as I know, will be the default 
> browser for Windows 10 (or at least be used quite a bit). I'd also say 
> that 
> given its Chromium based I'd include that and Chromium together along 
> with 
> Chrome. 

 What if we add it as Level 2 support for now until it is released?
 I agree we would be interested to support it though it should not be a 
 big deal taking the engine under the hood.

 +1 on supporting temporarily only the very latest version of IE, and 
> maybe have a blurb saying this is planned to be discontinued given MS 
> plans 
> anyway to invest into Edge instead.


 @Baptiste Do you mean Level 1 support for IE 11 and Level 3 for older 
 versions (w/o -1 version support)?
 Sounds reasonable to me.

>>>
>>> Yes. IE11 should be the only version we put in Level 1 IMO, even more 
>>> after having re-read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_11 but 
>>> we should probably put a blurb saying Edge is to be preferred and IE11 will 
>>> likely soon be Level 2, given MS plans 
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Edge and that Edge is even 
>>> already default browser on Windows 10 (and later?!).
>>>
>>> Any older IE release should be Level 2 max, Level 3 maybe, I don't feel 
>>> that strongly.
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>

 I suggest to also add a js warning plugin (e.g. 
> https://github.com/outdatedbrowser/outdated-browser) to jenkins to 
> give the users a better feedback for unsupported browsers.
>

 +1 for any warnings or administrativemonitors if anyone is willing to 
 contribute them. Thanks in advance!
  

> I think Firefox ESR would make sense to support as well
>

 +1 for keeping it as Level 1 as it currently is.




 On Friday, November 15, 2019 at 4:24:12 PM UTC+1, Matt Sicker wrote:
>
> FWIW, I've written any new JS/HTML/CSS according to caniuse.com and 
> their base line supported level, though that might be fairly conservative 
> (not as conservative as the current Jenkins wiki, though!)
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 8:15 AM Daniel Beck  
> wrote:
>
>> I think Firefox ESR would make sense to support as well. Its baseline 
>> is never older than a year IIUC, so should be feasible to have it be 
>> considered supported.
>>
>> Showing warnings on the UI when using an unsupported browser would 
>> probably be fairly straightforward as well, and help to inform users. 
>> Perhaps we even distinguish between "outdated based on policy" and 
>> "outdated based on features actually used in core or popular plugins", 
>> but 
>> that may end up being too much effort to maintain.
>>
>>
>> Does it actually make sense to still support IE?
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:17 AM Oleg Nenashev  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> There was recently a question about Jenkins browser support policy 
>>> raised in the chats. Currently the policy is hosted on Wiki (here 
>>> ),
>>>  
>>> and the policy looks to be REALLY old. E.g. we say that Safari 6+ are 
>>> fully 
>>> supported, ouch. It does not look like we had any major changes since 
>>> the 
>>> inception of the policy in 2014. I have created a pull reques 
>>> t to move 
>>> the policy to jenkins.io, and I would like to make some changes to 
>>> actualize it.
>>>
>>> What do I propose?
>>>
>>>- Chrome, Firefox, IE, Safari
>>>   - Level 1: 
>>>  - "Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch 
>>>  level"
>>>   - Level 2: 
>>>  - Previous patches of the latest regular release
>>>  - Latest minor release / patch level  for the "Version -1" 
>>>   - Level 3:
>>>

Re: Proposal: Jenkins Browser Support policy updates

2019-11-19 Thread Oleg Nenashev 
Since we have a Governance meeting tomorrow, I have added this topic to the 
agenda so that we can formally confirm the changes
https://wiki.jenkins.io/display/JENKINS/Governance+Meeting+Agenda#GovernanceMeetingAgenda-November20

On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 2:07:53 PM UTC+1, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
>
> Implemented all the discussed changes in  
> https://github.com/jenkins-infra/jenkins.io/pull/2659 .
> Will appreciate reviews
>
> On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 1:40 PM Baptiste Mathus  
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 2:03 PM Oleg Nenashev  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Personally I think Microsoft Edge (Chromium) should be Level 1 as it 
 will be coming out in January and, as far as I know, will be the default 
 browser for Windows 10 (or at least be used quite a bit). I'd also say 
 that 
 given its Chromium based I'd include that and Chromium together along with 
 Chrome. 
>>>
>>> What if we add it as Level 2 support for now until it is released?
>>> I agree we would be interested to support it though it should not be a 
>>> big deal taking the engine under the hood.
>>>
>>> +1 on supporting temporarily only the very latest version of IE, and 
 maybe have a blurb saying this is planned to be discontinued given MS 
 plans 
 anyway to invest into Edge instead.
>>>
>>>
>>> @Baptiste Do you mean Level 1 support for IE 11 and Level 3 for older 
>>> versions (w/o -1 version support)?
>>> Sounds reasonable to me.
>>>
>>
>> Yes. IE11 should be the only version we put in Level 1 IMO, even more 
>> after having re-read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_11 but 
>> we should probably put a blurb saying Edge is to be preferred and IE11 will 
>> likely soon be Level 2, given MS plans 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Edge and that Edge is even 
>> already default browser on Windows 10 (and later?!).
>>
>> Any older IE release should be Level 2 max, Level 3 maybe, I don't feel 
>> that strongly.
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>>
>>> I suggest to also add a js warning plugin (e.g. 
 https://github.com/outdatedbrowser/outdated-browser) to jenkins to 
 give the users a better feedback for unsupported browsers.

>>>
>>> +1 for any warnings or administrativemonitors if anyone is willing to 
>>> contribute them. Thanks in advance!
>>>  
>>>
 I think Firefox ESR would make sense to support as well

>>>
>>> +1 for keeping it as Level 1 as it currently is.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, November 15, 2019 at 4:24:12 PM UTC+1, Matt Sicker wrote:

 FWIW, I've written any new JS/HTML/CSS according to caniuse.com and 
 their base line supported level, though that might be fairly conservative 
 (not as conservative as the current Jenkins wiki, though!)

 On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 8:15 AM Daniel Beck  
 wrote:

> I think Firefox ESR would make sense to support as well. Its baseline 
> is never older than a year IIUC, so should be feasible to have it be 
> considered supported.
>
> Showing warnings on the UI when using an unsupported browser would 
> probably be fairly straightforward as well, and help to inform users. 
> Perhaps we even distinguish between "outdated based on policy" and 
> "outdated based on features actually used in core or popular plugins", 
> but 
> that may end up being too much effort to maintain.
>
>
> Does it actually make sense to still support IE?
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:17 AM Oleg Nenashev  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> There was recently a question about Jenkins browser support policy 
>> raised in the chats. Currently the policy is hosted on Wiki (here 
>> ), 
>> and the policy looks to be REALLY old. E.g. we say that Safari 6+ are 
>> fully 
>> supported, ouch. It does not look like we had any major changes since 
>> the 
>> inception of the policy in 2014. I have created a pull reques 
>> t to move the 
>> policy to jenkins.io, and I would like to make some changes to 
>> actualize it.
>>
>> What do I propose?
>>
>>- Chrome, Firefox, IE, Safari
>>   - Level 1: 
>>  - "Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch 
>>  level"
>>   - Level 2: 
>>  - Previous patches of the latest regular release
>>  - Latest minor release / patch level  for the "Version -1" 
>>   - Level 3:
>>  - All other versions
>>   - Other browsers, including mobile versions, Chromium, 
>>Microsoft EDGE, etc.:
>>   - Level 2: Latest regular release, latest minor release / 
>>   patch level
>>   - Level 3: All other versions
>>
>>
>> This policy should be somewhat aligned with the current ATH state. 
>> IIUC we test only Firefox now,

Re: Proposal: Jenkins Browser Support policy updates

2019-11-19 Thread Oleg Nenashev 
Implemented all the discussed changes in
https://github.com/jenkins-infra/jenkins.io/pull/2659 .
Will appreciate reviews

On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 1:40 PM Baptiste Mathus 
wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 2:03 PM Oleg Nenashev 
> wrote:
>
>> Personally I think Microsoft Edge (Chromium) should be Level 1 as it will
>>> be coming out in January and, as far as I know, will be the default browser
>>> for Windows 10 (or at least be used quite a bit). I'd also say that given
>>> its Chromium based I'd include that and Chromium together along with
>>> Chrome.
>>
>> What if we add it as Level 2 support for now until it is released?
>> I agree we would be interested to support it though it should not be a
>> big deal taking the engine under the hood.
>>
>> +1 on supporting temporarily only the very latest version of IE, and
>>> maybe have a blurb saying this is planned to be discontinued given MS plans
>>> anyway to invest into Edge instead.
>>
>>
>> @Baptiste Do you mean Level 1 support for IE 11 and Level 3 for older
>> versions (w/o -1 version support)?
>> Sounds reasonable to me.
>>
>
> Yes. IE11 should be the only version we put in Level 1 IMO, even more
> after having re-read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_11 but
> we should probably put a blurb saying Edge is to be preferred and IE11 will
> likely soon be Level 2, given MS plans
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Edge and that Edge is even
> already default browser on Windows 10 (and later?!).
>
> Any older IE release should be Level 2 max, Level 3 maybe, I don't feel
> that strongly.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> I suggest to also add a js warning plugin (e.g.
>>> https://github.com/outdatedbrowser/outdated-browser) to jenkins to give
>>> the users a better feedback for unsupported browsers.
>>>
>>
>> +1 for any warnings or administrativemonitors if anyone is willing to
>> contribute them. Thanks in advance!
>>
>>
>>> I think Firefox ESR would make sense to support as well
>>>
>>
>> +1 for keeping it as Level 1 as it currently is.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, November 15, 2019 at 4:24:12 PM UTC+1, Matt Sicker wrote:
>>>
>>> FWIW, I've written any new JS/HTML/CSS according to caniuse.com and
>>> their base line supported level, though that might be fairly conservative
>>> (not as conservative as the current Jenkins wiki, though!)
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 8:15 AM Daniel Beck  wrote:
>>>
 I think Firefox ESR would make sense to support as well. Its baseline
 is never older than a year IIUC, so should be feasible to have it be
 considered supported.

 Showing warnings on the UI when using an unsupported browser would
 probably be fairly straightforward as well, and help to inform users.
 Perhaps we even distinguish between "outdated based on policy" and
 "outdated based on features actually used in core or popular plugins", but
 that may end up being too much effort to maintain.


 Does it actually make sense to still support IE?

 On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:17 AM Oleg Nenashev 
 wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> There was recently a question about Jenkins browser support policy
> raised in the chats. Currently the policy is hosted on Wiki (here
> ),
> and the policy looks to be REALLY old. E.g. we say that Safari 6+ are 
> fully
> supported, ouch. It does not look like we had any major changes since the
> inception of the policy in 2014. I have created a pull reques
> t to move the
> policy to jenkins.io, and I would like to make some changes to
> actualize it.
>
> What do I propose?
>
>- Chrome, Firefox, IE, Safari
>   - Level 1:
>  - "Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch
>  level"
>   - Level 2:
>  - Previous patches of the latest regular release
>  - Latest minor release / patch level  for the "Version -1"
>   - Level 3:
>  - All other versions
>   - Other browsers, including mobile versions, Chromium,
>Microsoft EDGE, etc.:
>   - Level 2: Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch
>   level
>   - Level 3: All other versions
>
>
> This policy should be somewhat aligned with the current ATH state.
> IIUC we test only Firefox now, and there is a PR by Oliver Gondza to run
> tests on Chrome instead (here
> )
>
> WDYT?
>
> Best regards,
> Oleg
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to jenkin...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
>

Re: Proposal: Jenkins Browser Support policy updates

2019-11-19 Thread Baptiste Mathus 
On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 2:03 PM Oleg Nenashev 
wrote:

> Personally I think Microsoft Edge (Chromium) should be Level 1 as it will
>> be coming out in January and, as far as I know, will be the default browser
>> for Windows 10 (or at least be used quite a bit). I'd also say that given
>> its Chromium based I'd include that and Chromium together along with
>> Chrome.
>
> What if we add it as Level 2 support for now until it is released?
> I agree we would be interested to support it though it should not be a big
> deal taking the engine under the hood.
>
> +1 on supporting temporarily only the very latest version of IE, and maybe
>> have a blurb saying this is planned to be discontinued given MS plans
>> anyway to invest into Edge instead.
>
>
> @Baptiste Do you mean Level 1 support for IE 11 and Level 3 for older
> versions (w/o -1 version support)?
> Sounds reasonable to me.
>

Yes. IE11 should be the only version we put in Level 1 IMO, even more after
having re-read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_11 but we
should probably put a blurb saying Edge is to be preferred and IE11 will
likely soon be Level 2, given MS plans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Edge and that Edge is even already
default browser on Windows 10 (and later?!).

Any older IE release should be Level 2 max, Level 3 maybe, I don't feel
that strongly.




>
> I suggest to also add a js warning plugin (e.g.
>> https://github.com/outdatedbrowser/outdated-browser) to jenkins to give
>> the users a better feedback for unsupported browsers.
>>
>
> +1 for any warnings or administrativemonitors if anyone is willing to
> contribute them. Thanks in advance!
>
>
>> I think Firefox ESR would make sense to support as well
>>
>
> +1 for keeping it as Level 1 as it currently is.
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, November 15, 2019 at 4:24:12 PM UTC+1, Matt Sicker wrote:
>>
>> FWIW, I've written any new JS/HTML/CSS according to caniuse.com and
>> their base line supported level, though that might be fairly conservative
>> (not as conservative as the current Jenkins wiki, though!)
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 8:15 AM Daniel Beck  wrote:
>>
>>> I think Firefox ESR would make sense to support as well. Its baseline is
>>> never older than a year IIUC, so should be feasible to have it be
>>> considered supported.
>>>
>>> Showing warnings on the UI when using an unsupported browser would
>>> probably be fairly straightforward as well, and help to inform users.
>>> Perhaps we even distinguish between "outdated based on policy" and
>>> "outdated based on features actually used in core or popular plugins", but
>>> that may end up being too much effort to maintain.
>>>
>>>
>>> Does it actually make sense to still support IE?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:17 AM Oleg Nenashev 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi all,

 There was recently a question about Jenkins browser support policy
 raised in the chats. Currently the policy is hosted on Wiki (here
 ),
 and the policy looks to be REALLY old. E.g. we say that Safari 6+ are fully
 supported, ouch. It does not look like we had any major changes since the
 inception of the policy in 2014. I have created a pull reques
 t to move the
 policy to jenkins.io, and I would like to make some changes to
 actualize it.

 What do I propose?

- Chrome, Firefox, IE, Safari
   - Level 1:
  - "Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch level"
   - Level 2:
  - Previous patches of the latest regular release
  - Latest minor release / patch level  for the "Version -1"
   - Level 3:
  - All other versions
   - Other browsers, including mobile versions, Chromium, Microsoft
EDGE, etc.:
   - Level 2: Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch
   level
   - Level 3: All other versions


 This policy should be somewhat aligned with the current ATH state. IIUC
 we test only Firefox now, and there is a PR by Oliver Gondza to run tests
 on Chrome instead (here
 )

 WDYT?

 Best regards,
 Oleg

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
 Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
 an email to jenkin...@googlegroups.com.
 To view this discussion on the web visit
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/976db98b-75be-4e29-9bd4-d5fe6676c674%40googlegroups.com
 
 .

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Daniel Beck
>>> Senior Software Engineer
>>> CloudBees, Inc.
>>>
>>>

Re: Proposal: Jenkins Browser Support policy updates

2019-11-18 Thread Oleg Nenashev 

>
> Personally I think Microsoft Edge (Chromium) should be Level 1 as it will 
> be coming out in January and, as far as I know, will be the default browser 
> for Windows 10 (or at least be used quite a bit). I'd also say that given 
> its Chromium based I'd include that and Chromium together along with 
> Chrome. 

What if we add it as Level 2 support for now until it is released?
I agree we would be interested to support it though it should not be a big 
deal taking the engine under the hood.

+1 on supporting temporarily only the very latest version of IE, and maybe 
> have a blurb saying this is planned to be discontinued given MS plans 
> anyway to invest into Edge instead.


@Baptiste Do you mean Level 1 support for IE 11 and Level 3 for older 
versions (w/o -1 version support)?
Sounds reasonable to me.

I suggest to also add a js warning plugin (e.g. 
> https://github.com/outdatedbrowser/outdated-browser) to jenkins to give 
> the users a better feedback for unsupported browsers.
>

+1 for any warnings or administrativemonitors if anyone is willing to 
contribute them. Thanks in advance!
 

> I think Firefox ESR would make sense to support as well
>

+1 for keeping it as Level 1 as it currently is.




On Friday, November 15, 2019 at 4:24:12 PM UTC+1, Matt Sicker wrote:
>
> FWIW, I've written any new JS/HTML/CSS according to caniuse.com and their 
> base line supported level, though that might be fairly conservative (not as 
> conservative as the current Jenkins wiki, though!)
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 8:15 AM Daniel Beck  > wrote:
>
>> I think Firefox ESR would make sense to support as well. Its baseline is 
>> never older than a year IIUC, so should be feasible to have it be 
>> considered supported.
>>
>> Showing warnings on the UI when using an unsupported browser would 
>> probably be fairly straightforward as well, and help to inform users. 
>> Perhaps we even distinguish between "outdated based on policy" and 
>> "outdated based on features actually used in core or popular plugins", but 
>> that may end up being too much effort to maintain.
>>
>>
>> Does it actually make sense to still support IE?
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:17 AM Oleg Nenashev > > wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> There was recently a question about Jenkins browser support policy 
>>> raised in the chats. Currently the policy is hosted on Wiki (here 
>>> ), 
>>> and the policy looks to be REALLY old. E.g. we say that Safari 6+ are fully 
>>> supported, ouch. It does not look like we had any major changes since the 
>>> inception of the policy in 2014. I have created a pull reques 
>>> t to move the 
>>> policy to jenkins.io, and I would like to make some changes to 
>>> actualize it.
>>>
>>> What do I propose?
>>>
>>>- Chrome, Firefox, IE, Safari
>>>   - Level 1: 
>>>  - "Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch level"
>>>   - Level 2: 
>>>  - Previous patches of the latest regular release
>>>  - Latest minor release / patch level  for the "Version -1" 
>>>   - Level 3:
>>>  - All other versions
>>>   - Other browsers, including mobile versions, Chromium, Microsoft 
>>>EDGE, etc.:
>>>   - Level 2: Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch 
>>>   level
>>>   - Level 3: All other versions
>>>
>>>
>>> This policy should be somewhat aligned with the current ATH state. IIUC 
>>> we test only Firefox now, and there is a PR by Oliver Gondza to run tests 
>>> on Chrome instead (here 
>>> )
>>>
>>> WDYT?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Oleg
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to jenkin...@googlegroups.com .
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/976db98b-75be-4e29-9bd4-d5fe6676c674%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Daniel Beck
>> Senior Software Engineer
>> CloudBees, Inc.
>>
>> [image: CloudBees-Logo.png]
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Jenkins Developers" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to jenkin...@googlegroups.com .
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAMo7PtKGPEqv9gaVT%2BX%3DoXT%2Busp3RhA%3DfBgcHaWD0hrt8MPdaQ%40mail.gmail.com
>>  
>>

Re: Proposal: Jenkins Browser Support policy updates

2019-11-15 Thread Matt Sicker 
FWIW, I've written any new JS/HTML/CSS according to caniuse.com and their
base line supported level, though that might be fairly conservative (not as
conservative as the current Jenkins wiki, though!)

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 8:15 AM Daniel Beck  wrote:

> I think Firefox ESR would make sense to support as well. Its baseline is
> never older than a year IIUC, so should be feasible to have it be
> considered supported.
>
> Showing warnings on the UI when using an unsupported browser would
> probably be fairly straightforward as well, and help to inform users.
> Perhaps we even distinguish between "outdated based on policy" and
> "outdated based on features actually used in core or popular plugins", but
> that may end up being too much effort to maintain.
>
>
> Does it actually make sense to still support IE?
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:17 AM Oleg Nenashev 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> There was recently a question about Jenkins browser support policy raised
>> in the chats. Currently the policy is hosted on Wiki (here
>> ),
>> and the policy looks to be REALLY old. E.g. we say that Safari 6+ are fully
>> supported, ouch. It does not look like we had any major changes since the
>> inception of the policy in 2014. I have created a pull reques
>> t to move the
>> policy to jenkins.io, and I would like to make some changes to actualize
>> it.
>>
>> What do I propose?
>>
>>- Chrome, Firefox, IE, Safari
>>   - Level 1:
>>  - "Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch level"
>>   - Level 2:
>>  - Previous patches of the latest regular release
>>  - Latest minor release / patch level  for the "Version -1"
>>   - Level 3:
>>  - All other versions
>>   - Other browsers, including mobile versions, Chromium, Microsoft
>>EDGE, etc.:
>>   - Level 2: Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch
>>   level
>>   - Level 3: All other versions
>>
>>
>> This policy should be somewhat aligned with the current ATH state. IIUC
>> we test only Firefox now, and there is a PR by Oliver Gondza to run tests
>> on Chrome instead (here
>> )
>>
>> WDYT?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Oleg
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Jenkins Developers" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to jenkinsci-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/976db98b-75be-4e29-9bd4-d5fe6676c674%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Daniel Beck
> Senior Software Engineer
> CloudBees, Inc.
>
> [image: CloudBees-Logo.png]
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Jenkins Developers" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to jenkinsci-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAMo7PtKGPEqv9gaVT%2BX%3DoXT%2Busp3RhA%3DfBgcHaWD0hrt8MPdaQ%40mail.gmail.com
> 
> .
>


-- 
Matt Sicker
Senior Software Engineer, CloudBees

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Jenkins Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to jenkinsci-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAEot4oyaa7gXJpdQ1aFh6Kd89cDQ8MMQJWDxhkmLdpkjH5J_Ew%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: Proposal: Jenkins Browser Support policy updates

2019-11-15 Thread Daniel Beck 
I think Firefox ESR would make sense to support as well. Its baseline is
never older than a year IIUC, so should be feasible to have it be
considered supported.

Showing warnings on the UI when using an unsupported browser would probably
be fairly straightforward as well, and help to inform users. Perhaps we
even distinguish between "outdated based on policy" and "outdated based on
features actually used in core or popular plugins", but that may end up
being too much effort to maintain.


Does it actually make sense to still support IE?

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:17 AM Oleg Nenashev 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> There was recently a question about Jenkins browser support policy raised
> in the chats. Currently the policy is hosted on Wiki (here
> ),
> and the policy looks to be REALLY old. E.g. we say that Safari 6+ are fully
> supported, ouch. It does not look like we had any major changes since the
> inception of the policy in 2014. I have created a pull reques
> t to move the
> policy to jenkins.io, and I would like to make some changes to actualize
> it.
>
> What do I propose?
>
>- Chrome, Firefox, IE, Safari
>   - Level 1:
>  - "Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch level"
>   - Level 2:
>  - Previous patches of the latest regular release
>  - Latest minor release / patch level  for the "Version -1"
>   - Level 3:
>  - All other versions
>   - Other browsers, including mobile versions, Chromium, Microsoft
>EDGE, etc.:
>   - Level 2: Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch
>   level
>   - Level 3: All other versions
>
>
> This policy should be somewhat aligned with the current ATH state. IIUC we
> test only Firefox now, and there is a PR by Oliver Gondza to run tests on
> Chrome instead (here
> )
>
> WDYT?
>
> Best regards,
> Oleg
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Jenkins Developers" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to jenkinsci-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/976db98b-75be-4e29-9bd4-d5fe6676c674%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


-- 

Daniel Beck
Senior Software Engineer
CloudBees, Inc.

[image: CloudBees-Logo.png]

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Jenkins Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to jenkinsci-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAMo7PtKGPEqv9gaVT%2BX%3DoXT%2Busp3RhA%3DfBgcHaWD0hrt8MPdaQ%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: Proposal: Jenkins Browser Support policy updates

2019-11-15 Thread Baptiste Mathus 
+1 on the update of the policy. All for dropping explicit "support" for
older browsers. (support

I love the idea to actually have something like an Administrative warning
to tell users that they may see UI quirks given the browser they're using.
And that they should feel free to report them iff these quirks are also
present on latest browser versions.

+1 on supporting temporarily only the very latest version of IE, and maybe
have a blurb saying this is planned to be discontinued given MS plans
anyway to invest into Edge instead.

Le ven. 15 nov. 2019 à 11:44, 'Björn Pedersen' via Jenkins Developers <
jenkinsci-dev@googlegroups.com> a écrit :

> Hi,
>
> sounds reasonable in general.
>
> What  another project (https://github.com/indico/indico/releases/tag/v2.2
> ):
>
>> *Drop support for Internet Explorer 11 and other outdated or discontinued
>> browser versions.* Indico shows a warning message when accessed using
>> such a browser. The latest list of supported browsers can be found in
>> the README , but
>> generally Indico now supports the last two versions of each major browser
>> (determined at release time), plus the current Firefox ESR.
>>
>
> So support one  version back at level 1 ( this means also that before
> using bleeding edge browser features they have settled for at least on
> release).
>
> I suggest to also add a js warning plugin (e.g.
> https://github.com/outdatedbrowser/outdated-browser) to jenkins to give
> the users a better feedback for unsupported browsers.
>
> Björn
>
>
> Am Freitag, 15. November 2019 10:17:10 UTC+1 schrieb Oleg Nenashev:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> There was recently a question about Jenkins browser support policy raised
>> in the chats. Currently the policy is hosted on Wiki (here
>> ),
>> and the policy looks to be REALLY old. E.g. we say that Safari 6+ are fully
>> supported, ouch. It does not look like we had any major changes since the
>> inception of the policy in 2014. I have created a pull reques
>> t to move the
>> policy to jenkins.io, and I would like to make some changes to actualize
>> it.
>>
>> What do I propose?
>>
>>- Chrome, Firefox, IE, Safari
>>   - Level 1:
>>  - "Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch level"
>>   - Level 2:
>>  - Previous patches of the latest regular release
>>  - Latest minor release / patch level  for the "Version -1"
>>   - Level 3:
>>  - All other versions
>>   - Other browsers, including mobile versions, Chromium, Microsoft
>>EDGE, etc.:
>>   - Level 2: Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch
>>   level
>>   - Level 3: All other versions
>>
>>
>> This policy should be somewhat aligned with the current ATH state. IIUC
>> we test only Firefox now, and there is a PR by Oliver Gondza to run tests
>> on Chrome instead (here
>> )
>>
>> WDYT?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Oleg
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Jenkins Developers" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to jenkinsci-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/97fa0774-e4a3-4698-bfc4-94006dd51af2%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Jenkins Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to jenkinsci-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CANWgJS5vxUiUchuVyYkaoGQ9peM%3D8H%2BbRy7dZpUXziNMji1TKQ%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: Proposal: Jenkins Browser Support policy updates

2019-11-15 Thread 'Björn Pedersen' via Jenkins Developers 
Hi, 

sounds reasonable in general. 

What  another project (https://github.com/indico/indico/releases/tag/v2.2):

> *Drop support for Internet Explorer 11 and other outdated or discontinued 
> browser versions.* Indico shows a warning message when accessed using 
> such a browser. The latest list of supported browsers can be found in the 
> README , but generally 
> Indico now supports the last two versions of each major browser (determined 
> at release time), plus the current Firefox ESR.
>

So support one  version back at level 1 ( this means also that before using 
bleeding edge browser features they have settled for at least on release).

I suggest to also add a js warning plugin (e.g. 
https://github.com/outdatedbrowser/outdated-browser) to jenkins to give the 
users a better feedback for unsupported browsers.

Björn


Am Freitag, 15. November 2019 10:17:10 UTC+1 schrieb Oleg Nenashev:
>
> Hi all,
>
> There was recently a question about Jenkins browser support policy raised 
> in the chats. Currently the policy is hosted on Wiki (here 
> ), 
> and the policy looks to be REALLY old. E.g. we say that Safari 6+ are fully 
> supported, ouch. It does not look like we had any major changes since the 
> inception of the policy in 2014. I have created a pull reques 
> t to move the 
> policy to jenkins.io, and I would like to make some changes to actualize 
> it.
>
> What do I propose?
>
>- Chrome, Firefox, IE, Safari
>   - Level 1: 
>  - "Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch level"
>   - Level 2: 
>  - Previous patches of the latest regular release
>  - Latest minor release / patch level  for the "Version -1" 
>   - Level 3:
>  - All other versions
>   - Other browsers, including mobile versions, Chromium, Microsoft 
>EDGE, etc.:
>   - Level 2: Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch 
>   level
>   - Level 3: All other versions
>
>
> This policy should be somewhat aligned with the current ATH state. IIUC we 
> test only Firefox now, and there is a PR by Oliver Gondza to run tests on 
> Chrome instead (here 
> )
>
> WDYT?
>
> Best regards,
> Oleg
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Jenkins Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to jenkinsci-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/97fa0774-e4a3-4698-bfc4-94006dd51af2%40googlegroups.com.

Re: Proposal: Jenkins Browser Support policy updates

2019-11-15 Thread Oliver Gondža 

On 15/11/2019 10.17, Oleg Nenashev wrote:

Hi all,

There was recently a question about Jenkins browser support policy 
raised in the chats. Currently the policy is hosted on Wiki (here 
), 
and the policy looks to be REALLY old. E.g. we say that Safari 6+ are 
fully supported, ouch. It does not look like we had any major changes 
since the inception of the policy in 2014. I have created a pull reques 
t to move the 
policy to jenkins.io, and I would like to make some changes to actualize it.


What do I propose?

  * Chrome, Firefox, IE, Safari
  o Level 1:
  + "Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch level"
  o Level 2:
  + Previous patches of the latest regular release
  + Latest minor release / patch level  for the "Version -1" 
  o Level 3:

  + All other versions
  * Other browsers, including mobile versions, Chromium, Microsoft EDGE,
etc.:
  o Level 2: Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch level
  o Level 3: All other versions


This policy should be somewhat aligned with the current ATH state. IIUC 
we test only Firefox now, and there is a PR by Oliver Gondza to run 
tests on Chrome instead (here 
)


WDYT?


It makes sense to me up date it this way - especially getting rid of the 
explicit versions so this does not get outdated so easily.


Speaking of ATH, there is not enough hands to mirror the support matrix 
and test the UI on all supported browsers - not even those from level 1. 
We have started tentatively looking into replacing FF with chrome as the 
only browser we test with to (hopefully) improve the stability and 
(certainly) improve the test relevance.


--
oliver

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins 
Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to jenkinsci-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/6438b52c-9ac7-49d4-5056-ae1c6c921ac6%40gmail.com.

Re: Proposal: Jenkins Browser Support policy updates

2019-11-15 Thread Richard Bywater 
Personally I think Microsoft Edge (Chromium) should be Level 1 as it will
be coming out in January and, as far as I know, will be the default browser
for Windows 10 (or at least be used quite a bit). I'd also say that given
its Chromium based I'd include that and Chromium together along with
Chrome.

I'd also suggest dropping IE although perhaps that's slightly too early?

Richard.

On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 22:17, Oleg Nenashev  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> There was recently a question about Jenkins browser support policy raised
> in the chats. Currently the policy is hosted on Wiki (here
> ),
> and the policy looks to be REALLY old. E.g. we say that Safari 6+ are fully
> supported, ouch. It does not look like we had any major changes since the
> inception of the policy in 2014. I have created a pull reques
> t to move the
> policy to jenkins.io, and I would like to make some changes to actualize
> it.
>
> What do I propose?
>
>- Chrome, Firefox, IE, Safari
>   - Level 1:
>  - "Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch level"
>   - Level 2:
>  - Previous patches of the latest regular release
>  - Latest minor release / patch level  for the "Version -1"
>   - Level 3:
>  - All other versions
>   - Other browsers, including mobile versions, Chromium, Microsoft
>EDGE, etc.:
>   - Level 2: Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch
>   level
>   - Level 3: All other versions
>
>
> This policy should be somewhat aligned with the current ATH state. IIUC we
> test only Firefox now, and there is a PR by Oliver Gondza to run tests on
> Chrome instead (here
> )
>
> WDYT?
>
> Best regards,
> Oleg
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Jenkins Developers" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to jenkinsci-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/976db98b-75be-4e29-9bd4-d5fe6676c674%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Jenkins Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to jenkinsci-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAAy0hwcsMWRvSQKs%3Dr4M8K2Dj-KL3NYNfYNOV4LaKO4QG4sFeA%40mail.gmail.com.

Proposal: Jenkins Browser Support policy updates

2019-11-15 Thread Oleg Nenashev 
Hi all,

There was recently a question about Jenkins browser support policy raised 
in the chats. Currently the policy is hosted on Wiki (here 
), 
and the policy looks to be REALLY old. E.g. we say that Safari 6+ are fully 
supported, ouch. It does not look like we had any major changes since the 
inception of the policy in 2014. I have created a pull reques 
t to move the policy 
to jenkins.io, and I would like to make some changes to actualize it.

What do I propose?

   - Chrome, Firefox, IE, Safari
  - Level 1: 
 - "Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch level"
  - Level 2: 
 - Previous patches of the latest regular release
 - Latest minor release / patch level  for the "Version -1" 
  - Level 3:
 - All other versions
  - Other browsers, including mobile versions, Chromium, Microsoft 
   EDGE, etc.:
  - Level 2: Latest regular release, latest minor release / patch level
  - Level 3: All other versions
   

This policy should be somewhat aligned with the current ATH state. IIUC we 
test only Firefox now, and there is a PR by Oliver Gondza to run tests on 
Chrome instead (here 
)

WDYT?

Best regards,
Oleg

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Jenkins Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to jenkinsci-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/976db98b-75be-4e29-9bd4-d5fe6676c674%40googlegroups.com.