RE: [jug-discussion] Web Framework debates online
As the certified and certifiable old fart in the group, here is my take. All the inventors of technology or frameworks or languages or whatever were invented/created/authored by individuals or small groups of individuals to ease some pain they were feeling or a small number of these creative events were from academics that just wanted to prove a concept, but even that fills a need. So unless you happen to share that pain, then their creation may not fill your own need to ease the pain you feel. Drew and I talked about this very thing a couple of years ago over a BBQ and I don't think it has changed much. I remember the flame wars that could erupt if you happened to say something like wordstar is best in a group of techies, or word perfect is best or visicalc rules or __ is best. Conversely _ is crap can cause the same kind of flame war. So just about anybody can fill in either of those blanks above with any of: AJAX, Laszlo, ZK, Google Web Toolkit, ThinWire, RoR, OGNL, Tapestry, Cocoon, Struts, WebWorks, Ruby, TCL, Python, PHP, Java, C++, JSF, JSP, JSTL, Alarius, etc. And I am quite sure that while reading this some of you are already filling in your favorite blank for each of those. But take care, no matter which one you choose to fill either blank and somebody on this list will think you are quite wrong, they just don't feel the same pain you feel. Michael Oliver CTO Alarius Systems LLC 6800 E. Lake Mead Blvd, #1096 Las Vegas, NV 89156 Phone:(702)866-9034 Cell:(518)378-6154 Fax:(702)974-0341 -Original Message- From: Thomas Hicks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:36 PM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: [jug-discussion] Web Framework debates online There's a lot of heat being generated online about the growing plethora of web development frameworks. Often, the comments and replies to the articles are more informative and useful than the articles. Here are a couple of links I ran across this morning, for those who are interested in trying separating the light from the heat (apologies to those who are just waiting for the dust to settle): Ruby cheerleading, but the replies/comments have some useful info: http://www.oreillynet.com/onjava/blog/2006/06/isnt_rails_supposed_to_change. html Matt Raible's take on it (also with some useful replies): http://raibledesigns.com/page/rd?entry=re_what_web_application_framework - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] Web Framework debates online
OS2 rules! NT sucks! Former OS2 user group member circa 1994... -Original Message- From: Michael Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:48 PM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: RE: [jug-discussion] Web Framework debates online As the certified and certifiable old fart in the group, here is my take. All the inventors of technology or frameworks or languages or whatever were invented/created/authored by individuals or small groups of individuals to ease some pain they were feeling or a small number of these creative events were from academics that just wanted to prove a concept, but even that fills a need. So unless you happen to share that pain, then their creation may not fill your own need to ease the pain you feel. Drew and I talked about this very thing a couple of years ago over a BBQ and I don't think it has changed much. I remember the flame wars that could erupt if you happened to say something like wordstar is best in a group of techies, or word perfect is best or visicalc rules or __ is best. Conversely _ is crap can cause the same kind of flame war. So just about anybody can fill in either of those blanks above with any of: AJAX, Laszlo, ZK, Google Web Toolkit, ThinWire, RoR, OGNL, Tapestry, Cocoon, Struts, WebWorks, Ruby, TCL, Python, PHP, Java, C++, JSF, JSP, JSTL, Alarius, etc. And I am quite sure that while reading this some of you are already filling in your favorite blank for each of those. But take care, no matter which one you choose to fill either blank and somebody on this list will think you are quite wrong, they just don't feel the same pain you feel. Michael Oliver CTO Alarius Systems LLC 6800 E. Lake Mead Blvd, #1096 Las Vegas, NV 89156 Phone:(702)866-9034 Cell:(518)378-6154 Fax:(702)974-0341 -Original Message- From: Thomas Hicks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:36 PM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: [jug-discussion] Web Framework debates online There's a lot of heat being generated online about the growing plethora of web development frameworks. Often, the comments and replies to the articles are more informative and useful than the articles. Here are a couple of links I ran across this morning, for those who are interested in trying separating the light from the heat (apologies to those who are just waiting for the dust to settle): Ruby cheerleading, but the replies/comments have some useful info: http://www.oreillynet.com/onjava/blog/2006/06/isnt_rails_supposed_to_change. html Matt Raible's take on it (also with some useful replies): http://raibledesigns.com/page/rd?entry=re_what_web_application_framework - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] Web Framework debates online
PRG III rules COBOL sucks...circa nineteen forgotten Michael Oliver CTO Alarius Systems LLC 6800 E. Lake Mead Blvd, #1096 Las Vegas, NV 89156 Phone:(702)866-9034 Cell:(518)378-6154 Fax:(702)974-0341 -Original Message- From: Rick Hightower [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 4:00 PM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: RE: [jug-discussion] Web Framework debates online OS2 rules! NT sucks! Former OS2 user group member circa 1994... -Original Message- From: Michael Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:48 PM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: RE: [jug-discussion] Web Framework debates online As the certified and certifiable old fart in the group, here is my take. All the inventors of technology or frameworks or languages or whatever were invented/created/authored by individuals or small groups of individuals to ease some pain they were feeling or a small number of these creative events were from academics that just wanted to prove a concept, but even that fills a need. So unless you happen to share that pain, then their creation may not fill your own need to ease the pain you feel. Drew and I talked about this very thing a couple of years ago over a BBQ and I don't think it has changed much. I remember the flame wars that could erupt if you happened to say something like wordstar is best in a group of techies, or word perfect is best or visicalc rules or __ is best. Conversely _ is crap can cause the same kind of flame war. So just about anybody can fill in either of those blanks above with any of: AJAX, Laszlo, ZK, Google Web Toolkit, ThinWire, RoR, OGNL, Tapestry, Cocoon, Struts, WebWorks, Ruby, TCL, Python, PHP, Java, C++, JSF, JSP, JSTL, Alarius, etc. And I am quite sure that while reading this some of you are already filling in your favorite blank for each of those. But take care, no matter which one you choose to fill either blank and somebody on this list will think you are quite wrong, they just don't feel the same pain you feel. Michael Oliver CTO Alarius Systems LLC 6800 E. Lake Mead Blvd, #1096 Las Vegas, NV 89156 Phone:(702)866-9034 Cell:(518)378-6154 Fax:(702)974-0341 -Original Message- From: Thomas Hicks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:36 PM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: [jug-discussion] Web Framework debates online There's a lot of heat being generated online about the growing plethora of web development frameworks. Often, the comments and replies to the articles are more informative and useful than the articles. Here are a couple of links I ran across this morning, for those who are interested in trying separating the light from the heat (apologies to those who are just waiting for the dust to settle): Ruby cheerleading, but the replies/comments have some useful info: http://www.oreillynet.com/onjava/blog/2006/06/isnt_rails_supposed_to_change. html Matt Raible's take on it (also with some useful replies): http://raibledesigns.com/page/rd?entry=re_what_web_application_framework - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] Web Framework debates online
See I am so old my fingers don't even work right RPG III rules COBOL sucks. Michael Oliver CTO Alarius Systems LLC 6800 E. Lake Mead Blvd, #1096 Las Vegas, NV 89156 Phone:(702)866-9034 Cell:(518)378-6154 Fax:(702)974-0341 -Original Message- From: Michael Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 4:08 PM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: RE: [jug-discussion] Web Framework debates online PRG III rules COBOL sucks...circa nineteen forgotten Michael Oliver CTO Alarius Systems LLC 6800 E. Lake Mead Blvd, #1096 Las Vegas, NV 89156 Phone:(702)866-9034 Cell:(518)378-6154 Fax:(702)974-0341 -Original Message- From: Rick Hightower [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 4:00 PM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: RE: [jug-discussion] Web Framework debates online OS2 rules! NT sucks! Former OS2 user group member circa 1994... -Original Message- From: Michael Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:48 PM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: RE: [jug-discussion] Web Framework debates online As the certified and certifiable old fart in the group, here is my take. All the inventors of technology or frameworks or languages or whatever were invented/created/authored by individuals or small groups of individuals to ease some pain they were feeling or a small number of these creative events were from academics that just wanted to prove a concept, but even that fills a need. So unless you happen to share that pain, then their creation may not fill your own need to ease the pain you feel. Drew and I talked about this very thing a couple of years ago over a BBQ and I don't think it has changed much. I remember the flame wars that could erupt if you happened to say something like wordstar is best in a group of techies, or word perfect is best or visicalc rules or __ is best. Conversely _ is crap can cause the same kind of flame war. So just about anybody can fill in either of those blanks above with any of: AJAX, Laszlo, ZK, Google Web Toolkit, ThinWire, RoR, OGNL, Tapestry, Cocoon, Struts, WebWorks, Ruby, TCL, Python, PHP, Java, C++, JSF, JSP, JSTL, Alarius, etc. And I am quite sure that while reading this some of you are already filling in your favorite blank for each of those. But take care, no matter which one you choose to fill either blank and somebody on this list will think you are quite wrong, they just don't feel the same pain you feel. Michael Oliver CTO Alarius Systems LLC 6800 E. Lake Mead Blvd, #1096 Las Vegas, NV 89156 Phone:(702)866-9034 Cell:(518)378-6154 Fax:(702)974-0341 -Original Message- From: Thomas Hicks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:36 PM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: [jug-discussion] Web Framework debates online There's a lot of heat being generated online about the growing plethora of web development frameworks. Often, the comments and replies to the articles are more informative and useful than the articles. Here are a couple of links I ran across this morning, for those who are interested in trying separating the light from the heat (apologies to those who are just waiting for the dust to settle): Ruby cheerleading, but the replies/comments have some useful info: http://www.oreillynet.com/onjava/blog/2006/06/isnt_rails_supposed_to_change. html Matt Raible's take on it (also with some useful replies): http://raibledesigns.com/page/rd?entry=re_what_web_application_framework - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Web Framework debates online
On Jun 28, 2006, at 6:00 PM, Rick Hightower wrote: OS2 rules! NT sucks! Former OS2 user group member circa 1994... Dude... Open VMS is the shizzit! Never ever dis VMS in my presence. Dems fightin' werds! Erik - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] Web Framework debates online
I wrote (and used on several projects) my own DOS BIOS based windowing system. I could do menu's in DOS with absolute positioning (pop up menus where the user right clicked the screen). I also wrote my own TSR, but an early version somehow erased my writable BIOS of my brand spanking new 386 (some bad assembly instruction I wrote not doubt). The early 90s were fun. I can still remember creating array's of pointer arrays to get past the 64K block limits. I started out programming C/C++ in the DOS environment. Then I moved to Win16, then Win32, then Java. I did a little Digital Unix with posix thread programming, but mostly I was doing M$ before Java. We used OS/2 to develop WIN16 apps b/c Windows crashed way too often for a developer machine. Control S, Control S, Control S was performed during think time. Make a small change... hit Control S 'cause Windows was coming down sooner or later. -Original Message- From: Erik Hatcher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:00 PM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] Web Framework debates online On Jun 28, 2006, at 6:00 PM, Rick Hightower wrote: OS2 rules! NT sucks! Former OS2 user group member circa 1994... Dude... Open VMS is the shizzit! Never ever dis VMS in my presence. Dems fightin' werds! Erik - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
