[kicad-users] DRC - vias connecting top and bottom layers
OK so I used KiCad to design a couple of boards - on one the fabrication house told me that I have a problem with my design. I have a few traces that are 15 mils that are connected between the top and bottom layers with a via - also 15 mils. The fabrication house told me to make the vias at least 12 mils bigger than the trace. I assume that's fairly standard. Does the DRC have any checks for vias size compared to connected trace size ???
[kicad-users] Re: Specifying footprints using the EESchema "Footprint" field
> At my company we use a homemade tool called EDS to maintain our database of > physical parts, bills of materials and drawings. It is always a challenge > keeping this in sync with the CAE tools. > For KiCad I was going to try > > 1.Define all parts in EDS including vendor info and KiCad footprint. This > makes it easy to reuse the part in multiple PCBs. > 2.Define the PCB board Bill of Material in EDS including component > references > 3.Use EESchema to capture the schematic as a .sch file. Assign References > that match the EDS Bill of Material > 4.Make a tool to set the footprint names into the .sch files. It would > use the EDS database of Reference-Footprint info and add the footprint to > the .sch records by matching the reference. > It sounds like it should create a .cmp file also. > 5.Go directly to PCBNew without using CVPCB > > > I don't know enough about KiCad yet to understand the back annotation process. > > I'm wondering if someone has already created a tool to set footprints into > the .sch file based on a table of Reference-Footprint pairs?? This is exactually what the Back-Annotate button does in EEscheme, take a look at the .STF file created by CVPCB. > > Bob > You are hinting at a more complex problem that creates a BOM from which parts and a board price can be derived. Ideally in EEschema I would propose that instead of selecting a symbol, we have the capability of selecting a part listed in a parts file. This file contains a unique part number, symbol and footprint that get stuffed into the component instance fields. Note that each manufacture already maintains a unique part numbering scheme for their parts. Multisource cross reference, AVL, inventory, distributor, distributor#, unit price, etc is yet another separate database problem. The parts file could be project specific or subset of a company wide comma separated list that could be imported/exported into/out of a spreadsheet, here let me suggest one: F3 F1 F2 National:DM74LS00N, 7400, DIP14, "quad nand" National:DM74LS00M, 7400, SMP14, Vishay:FC0603E50R0BTBST1, R, 0603, "RES 50 OHM 125MW .1%", where the first 3 fields are sufficient for now. The BOM output from EEschema could reference the unique part number for better communication with the person that needs to procure the parts. The current BOM output references the symbol which doesn't detail which vendor's part or footprint. This example doesn't address the use of a data base to fill out a complete BOM. I recently tried this placing the DigiKey P/N in the F3 field and a CSV BOM can be produced as a starting place for a spreadsheet to price/order parts -Frank
[kicad-users] Re: Specifying footprints using the EESchema "Footprint" field
--- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Bennett" wrote: > The process I use is: capture most of the schematic, use CVPCB to > initially assign footprints, (the module viewer is great), write a > .STF file, then back annotate the footprint information into the > schematic, a button/function I added. Also copy and paste of existing > symbols on the schematic will also copy the footprint assignment. > Hook up the new sysmbol, incrementally annotate and generate the > netlist. This keep all the information in one place, the schematic, > from which a netlist with footprint information can be created. > > I have proposed to the developers to deprecate the use of the .CMP > file because now schematic changes can become out of sync with > a stale .CMP file. The footprint/reference designator needs to > be in one place: the schematic to create a netlist. It's best > not to add modules manuallly in PCBnew but to the schematic and > create a new netlist for import into PCBnew. > > -Frank At my company we use a homemade tool called EDS to maintain our database of physical parts, bills of materials and drawings. It is always a challenge keeping this in sync with the CAE tools. For KiCad I was going to try 1. Define all parts in EDS including vendor info and KiCad footprint. This makes it easy to reuse the part in multiple PCBs. 2. Define the PCB board Bill of Material in EDS including component references 3. Use EESchema to capture the schematic as a .sch file. Assign References that match the EDS Bill of Material 4. Make a tool to set the footprint names into the .sch files. It would use the EDS database of Reference-Footprint info and add the footprint to the .sch records by matching the reference. It sounds like it should create a .cmp file also. 5. Go directly to PCBNew without using CVPCB I don't know enough about KiCad yet to understand the back annotation process. I'm wondering if someone has already created a tool to set footprints into the .sch file based on a table of Reference-Footprint pairs?? Bob >
[kicad-users] Re: Specifying footprints using the EESchema "Footprint" field
--- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Robert wrote: > > > In your experience, the .CMP file generated by CVPCB was not needed > > by PCBNEW? > > Personally I have yet to need it; PCBNew will warn that the .CMP file is > missing and then (as far as I can tell) read everything it needs out of > the netlist. I have successfully produced boards this way, but I don't > know if that means I'm missing out on something. Maybe someone will > enlighten us :). > > Regards, > > Robert. > I've tried this as well by deleteing the .CMP file, but I'm not sure reading the netlist into PCBnew finds module changes. Without checking the code, to be safe after changing the schematic/netlist, I would run CVPCB just to keep the .CMP file uptodate, then new modules would show up in PCBnew for placement. The process I use is: capture most of the schematic, use CVPCB to initially assign footprints, (the module viewer is great), write a .STF file, then back annotate the footprint information into the schematic, a button/function I added. Also copy and paste of existing symbols on the schematic will also copy the footprint assignment. Hook up the new sysmbol, incrementally annotate and generate the netlist. This keep all the information in one place, the schematic, from which a netlist with footprint information can be created. I have proposed to the developers to deprecate the use of the .CMP file because now schematic changes can become out of sync with a stale .CMP file. The footprint/reference designator needs to be in one place: the schematic to create a netlist. It's best not to add modules manuallly in PCBnew but to the schematic and create a new netlist for import into PCBnew. -Frank
Re: [kicad-users] Re: Export to Spectra DSN functionality
It would sure be nice if the industry could get together to define a standard for schematic, netlist and board layout files. That would allow users to select the best (for them) tool for each step without having to worry about incompatibilities. It would allow research into just a single phase of the problem without having to do every tool from one end to the other. That would probably cut into profits if you could easily replace one tool with another. Oh well, maybe one day... From: calvingrier To: kicad-users@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:13:09 PM Subject: [kicad-users] Re: Export to Spectra DSN functionality --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Greg Dyess wrote: > > While we're on the topic of external, auto-routers, has anyone seen this one: > http://www.wand.net.nz/~amb33/toporouter/ > It appears to use some "new"(??) methodology called "Rubberband based > topological routing" instead of the traditional "geometric sequential maze > routing". Something I noticed was that it created flowing traces as opposed > to traces with hard corners. It appears to have been developed to work > primarily with PCB. Has anyone used this or knows how well it actually works? > Topo-R has been around a long time. The version for Windows is nice, but you need to look at the tutorial to understand it. Topo-R Lite has limitations on nets, but they still give you access for many designs. I've tested it in single and dual layer routing, and it seems to work very well. I did find that one time a trace was overlapping, but it was easy to revise manually. It has DRC, teardrops, keepouts, pours, and many other nice features. TOPO-R CANNOT CREATE A SESSION FILE THAT CAN BE RE_IMPORTED to PCBNew. At least I've never been able to move a layout back into KiCAD/PCBNew. KiCAD throws an error when opening the .ses. The good news is Topo-R has built-in gerber and drill file output capability. You can generate what you need for the board-house after the routing is done. --CG Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question. Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad. Please visit http://www.kicadlib..org for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library. For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the kicad-devel group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! Groups Links
[kicad-users] Re: Export to Spectra DSN functionality
--- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Greg Dyess wrote: > > While we're on the topic of external, auto-routers, has anyone seen this one: > http://www.wand.net.nz/~amb33/toporouter/ > It appears to use some "new"(??) methodology called "Rubberband based > topological routing" instead of the traditional "geometric sequential maze > routing". Something I noticed was that it created flowing traces as opposed > to traces with hard corners. It appears to have been developed to work > primarily with PCB. Has anyone used this or knows how well it actually works? > Topo-R has been around a long time. The version for Windows is nice, but you need to look at the tutorial to understand it. Topo-R Lite has limitations on nets, but they still give you access for many designs. I've tested it in single and dual layer routing, and it seems to work very well. I did find that one time a trace was overlapping, but it was easy to revise manually. It has DRC, teardrops, keepouts, pours, and many other nice features. TOPO-R CANNOT CREATE A SESSION FILE THAT CAN BE RE_IMPORTED to PCBNew. At least I've never been able to move a layout back into KiCAD/PCBNew. KiCAD throws an error when opening the .ses. The good news is Topo-R has built-in gerber and drill file output capability. You can generate what you need for the board-house after the routing is done. --CG
Re: [kicad-users] Export to Spectra DSN functionality
I found that it just works. It appears to export all the necessary footprints (including custom ones I developed) so nothing else was required. I noticed it appears to be single-threaded as only once CPU core of my quad-core processor was actually being utilized. Are any of the autorouters multi-threaded to take advantage of the modern multi-core CPUs?? While we're on the topic of external, auto-routers, has anyone seen this one: http://www.wand.net.nz/~amb33/toporouter/ It appears to use some "new"(??) methodology called "Rubberband based topological routing" instead of the traditional "geometric sequential maze routing". Something I noticed was that it created flowing traces as opposed to traces with hard corners. It appears to have been developed to work primarily with PCB. Has anyone used this or knows how well it actually works? Thanks, Greg From: mmabshaffer To: kicad-users@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:05:57 AM Subject: [kicad-users] Export to Spectra DSN functionality Today I am trying to understand the Spectra DSN Export function. 1. Is there a place I should look to read about this? I didn't find much in the Help and FAQ. 2. Why is it in PCBNew instead of EESchema? 3. Are the KiCad footprints exported or must the target router have matching footprints. Thanks, Bob Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question. Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad. Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library. For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the kicad-devel group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! Groups Links
Re: [kicad-users] Export to Spectra DSN functionality
> 1. Is there a place I should look to read about this? I didn't find > much in the Help and FAQ. I don't know, but I found there wasn't much to understand. Sometimes things don't seem to work properly or as you would like them to, but otherwise it's pretty simple. > 2. Why is it in PCBNew instead of EESchema? Because it's for PCB routing. So you might do a bit of initial work in PCBNew (such as creating a PCB edge and placing the footprints within the edge as you require), export the DSN file to do the routing, and then after importing into PCBNew the resultant Spectra session file do some cleaning up. Note that it's not essential to use this feature. It is there mainly if you want to take advantage of the very impressive Freerouter (http://www.freerouting.net/). > 3. Are the KiCad footprints exported or must the target router have > matching footprints. The footprints are exported wherever you place them. I suggest you create a really simple circuit in EEScheema, add a board edge and place the footprints in PCBNew, and then uses the DSN export/import to allow you to play with Freerouter. You may also want to use Google (the Yahoo Groups search is not terribly good) to search this list for posts on Freerouter so you can see what has caused problems in the past. Hope that points you in the right direction. Regards, Robert. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.0/2210 - Release Date: 06/30/09 06:10:00
[kicad-users] Export to Spectra DSN functionality
Today I am trying to understand the Spectra DSN Export function. 1. Is there a place I should look to read about this? I didn't find much in the Help and FAQ. 2. Why is it in PCBNew instead of EESchema? 3. Are the KiCad footprints exported or must the target router have matching footprints. Thanks, Bob
Re: [kicad-users] Specifying footprints using the EESchema "Footprint" field
> In your experience, the .CMP file generated by CVPCB was not needed > by PCBNEW? Personally I have yet to need it; PCBNew will warn that the .CMP file is missing and then (as far as I can tell) read everything it needs out of the netlist. I have successfully produced boards this way, but I don't know if that means I'm missing out on something. Maybe someone will enlighten us :). Regards, Robert. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.0/2210 - Release Date: 06/30/09 06:10:00
RE: [kicad-users] Specifying footprints using the EESchema "Footprint" field
Robert, Since it works for you, I tried it again and this time the $noname was replaced by the footprint name in the netlist. Maybe I did something wrong the first time I tried it. In your experience, the .CMP file generated by CVPCB was not needed by PCBNEW? Thanks, Bob From: kicad-users@yahoogroups.com [mailto:kicad-us...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:21 AM To: kicad-users@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [kicad-users] Specifying footprints using the EESchema "Footprint" field I can tell you that it is possible to enter the footprint in this field and completely bypass CVPCB because that's what I do. I don't know why it's not working for you though, as I didn't have to do anything special. Regards, Robert. mmabshaffer wrote: > Is it possible to specify a part's footprint using the EESchema > "Footprint" field instead of using CVPCB? I tried it and the > resulting netlist still had the $noname place holders. When I started > up CVPCB is showed no footprint sssociations. > > Bob > > > > > > > Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting > your question. Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked > up by the creator of Kicad. Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for > details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad > library. For building Kicad from source and other development > questions visit the kicad-devel group at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.12.94/2208 - Release Date: > 06/29/09 05:54:00 > <><>
[kicad-users] Re: Looking for the LM556 chip in the Libs ??
Before creating the schematic and footprint yourself, try this KiCad library and module search engine: http://per.launay.free.fr/kicad/kicad_php/composant.php I typed in LM556N and it found me libraries that have it. Click on the one you want and download and load in the KiCad libraries and you are set to go (there was no module or footprint for it though, but if you know what kind of package the component has, you can search that as well if KiCad's modules don't have it. Good luck! --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, "acidb...@..." wrote: > > Hi there ! > I'm trying to do a board for the Atari Punk Synth. > Im doing the schemtaic but ive' run into a snag of sorts. > I need to use a LM556 chip, dual timer, but i can't find it in the > libs. > Im running Unbuntu 9.04, using 0.0.20080825c-1 version. > I know you can add more components to the libs but i can't seem to > find one for the LM556, I guess it's called the LM556CN now,according > to Mouser. > I've search thru the entire Lib pretty much and i just can't find. > So I'm kinda stuck ATM. > Any help would be great,I'll even throw in a twinkie ! to the person > that points me in the right direction. >
[kicad-users] Re: Looking for the LM556 chip in the Libs ??
--- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, "acidb...@..." wrote: > > Hi there ! > I'm trying to do a board for the Atari Punk Synth. > Im doing the schemtaic but ive' run into a snag of sorts. > I need to use a LM556 chip, dual timer, but i can't find it in the > libs. > Im running Unbuntu 9.04, using 0.0.20080825c-1 version. > I know you can add more components to the libs but i can't seem to > find one for the LM556, I guess it's called the LM556CN now,according > to Mouser. > I've search thru the entire Lib pretty much and i just can't find. > So I'm kinda stuck ATM. > Any help would be great,I'll even throw in a twinkie ! to the person > that points me in the right direction. It's easy, easy, easy to make a schematic symbol. Open the library editor from the schematic screen (it's on the top button bar), add the pins with names and numbers, draw a rectangle for the shape and you're (mostly) done. There are a few details regarding things like power pins but the help files cover this very well. Save your personal symbols in your own library so that future updates to the base libraries don't overwrite yours. One possible gotcha is that you'll need to remember to add your library to new projects and save the project options. It's just a couple of clicks but if you forget to do that, you'll wonder where your new parts went to.
[kicad-users] 90° stripline design
Hi How is it possible to design a 90° strip line angle ? Right now, I've used 6 different "pads" associated in a component (module), but pads remain pads, and the DRC generates as many errors as their are pads. The general insult is "pad close from a pad" (or something like that) or "trace too close from a pad" (when I use this strip line angle at the output or input of a component) Those DRC errors are not really important, but they add quite a lot of "noise" when controling a pcb Tnks Marc
Re: [kicad-users] Specifying footprints using the EESchema "Footprint" field
I can tell you that it is possible to enter the footprint in this field and completely bypass CVPCB because that's what I do. I don't know why it's not working for you though, as I didn't have to do anything special. Regards, Robert. mmabshaffer wrote: > Is it possible to specify a part's footprint using the EESchema > "Footprint" field instead of using CVPCB? I tried it and the > resulting netlist still had the $noname place holders. When I started > up CVPCB is showed no footprint sssociations. > > Bob > > > > > > > Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting > your question. Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked > up by the creator of Kicad. Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for > details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad > library. For building Kicad from source and other development > questions visit the kicad-devel group at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.12.94/2208 - Release Date: > 06/29/09 05:54:00 > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.12.94/2208 - Release Date: 06/29/09 05:54:00
[kicad-users] Looking for the LM556 chip in the Libs ??
Hi there ! I'm trying to do a board for the Atari Punk Synth. Im doing the schemtaic but ive' run into a snag of sorts. I need to use a LM556 chip, dual timer, but i can't find it in the libs. Im running Unbuntu 9.04, using 0.0.20080825c-1 version. I know you can add more components to the libs but i can't seem to find one for the LM556, I guess it's called the LM556CN now,according to Mouser. I've search thru the entire Lib pretty much and i just can't find. So I'm kinda stuck ATM. Any help would be great,I'll even throw in a twinkie ! to the person that points me in the right direction.
