KR> 'Shreg' went off the end of the runway

[pe...@heroic.co.uk]

Hi Willie,

There are plenty of expensive ways to reduce your landing distance,
however Mark Langford summed it up perfectly - speed control.

Excuse me I only work in knots, so here are the numbers,

90 mph = 78 knots

Stall speed is probably 45knots, so using the conservative rule, approach
speed should be 60 knots, and say 55 knots at touch down,  the plane has
(78/55) squared = 2.02 times
as much energy as it would have at 55 knots, so your landing roll will be
twice as long as it needs to be.

So if you touched down 200 yards in, and stopped in 900 yards, then you
needed 700 yards to get rid of all that energy, so land at 55 knots say 65
mph, and you will need 350 yards to slow up = 550 yards total runway.

Pete

KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[oldbiker...@aol.com]

The VGs come with a template and instructions and are attached with super  
glue, installation time is about 1 hr. Lot easier than building flaps or speed  
brake. They DO NOT REDUCE CRUISE SPEED and there 100.00 for everything.
Ray Lee
KR2 9763

KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[oldbiker...@aol.com]

I dug into my paperwork and got the info on my VGs.
Harrison Designs
Box 365 Kootena Idaho
ph 1 877 272 1414
_http://www.landshorter.com/_ (http://www.landshorter.com/) 

Ray Lee
KR2 9763

KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[Willie van der Walt]

  Thanks for all your trouble Ray. I'll  contact them for prices and see 
after shipping and tax whre it takes me. Apart from the cost I have nothing 
to loose. If it works. A lot to gain.

  I managed to land today using 75% of the runway. See my story posted 
earlier.
  Regards
  Willie
  - Original Message - 
  From: <oldbiker...@aol.com>
  To: <kr...@mylist.net>
  Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 8:29 PM
  Subject: Re: KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway


  >I dug into my paperwork and got the info on my VGs.
  > Harrison Designs
  > Box 365 Kootena Idaho
  > ph 1 877 272 1414
  > _http://www.landshorter.com/_ (http://www.landshorter.com/)
  >
  > Ray Lee
  > KR2 9763
  > ___
  > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
  > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
  > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
  >

KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[oldbiker...@aol.com]

Hi Willie
The price is $100.00 for 100 VGs and there is no tax or shipping they come  
in a envelope but don,t let that fool you those suckers work. There are  
directions and a template so you can't go wrong.


Have a Good One

Ray

KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[Willie van der Walt]

Today was the 4th flight with "shreg" and it ended in the felt on the extended 
runway. I came in on finals and did a side slip in a 75 degree X-wind. The 
speed was down to 90 mph when I crossed the fence and I was about 1m above the 
runway over the numbers. I was hoping to loose the extra 10 mph but no way. The 
throttle was closed at idle about 1000 rpm but the plane kept on floating. I 
then put the wheels onto the runway and held it firmly on the ground. The speed 
was indicating 60 while running with the tail up. There was still about 600m of 
runway left. I pulled back slightly to apply brakes but then the wheels hardly 
touched the ground and I could feel The KR wanted to get airborne again. At 
40mph I could pull back on the stick and apply enough brakes to almost lift the 
tail. I had no direct forward visibility over the nose and was shocked to see 
the loop entrance, at the holding point, coming past at about 20mph. I went off 
the tar into the long grass and almost flipped over as the grass grabbed the 
wheels, spats and wings all at the same time. This was a quick stop. Even the 
engine stopped. Hennie repaired the prop well because the tips held up well 
against the grass. Only some marks on the red tip paint. I pushed the plane 
back to the hanger and left it there for the night as I had enough excitement 
for one day.

In summery. I need to get the speed down to 80 over the fence or go around and 
try again if I am still above over the numbers. Wish I could fit airbrakes like 
we had on the gliders when I sailed at Donaldson Dam.

If I can not get landings right within the next 3 or 4 times I am going to fit 
a belly plate brake or something. 

What can I do to loose the lift after round out?

Regards Willie www.riversafaris.co.za

touri...@intekom.co.za

KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[Mark Langford]

Willie van der Walt wrote:

> Today was the 4th flight with "shreg" and it ended in the felt on the 
> extended runway. I came in on finals and did a side slip in a 75 degree 
> X-wind. The speed was down to 90 mph when I crossed the fence and I was 
> about 1m above the runway over the numbers. I was hoping to loose the 
> extra 10 mph but no way. <

I don't claim to be an expert in landing a KR, but I would probably do a 
go-around on my short strip if I crossed the fence at 90 mph, and I have 
split flaps for drag reduction.  If I were you I'd go to altitude and 
ascertain  the exact stall speed, and come over the fence at something like 
1.2x that speed (which I'm sure you already know), which for me is about 
80mph indicated.  My touchdown speed is around 65 mph (true airspeed), and 
at about 60 TAS it's done flying in the three point configuration.  I think 
you'll be OK once you get the speed down and learn how far down the runway 
you can stand to go before you need to do a go-around.  I do my best to hit 
about 50' down from the end of the runway every time.  Sometimes I'm going 
so slow the tail starts dropping, but a little throttle will straighten it 
right back out.

Wheel landing fans will probably say to wheel land it and get on the brakes 
until it's below landing speed and then plant the tail, but there again, it 
helps to be going slower on touchdown that it sounds like you were going. 
As short as my field is, I can't land without brakes, either way.  But then 
I'm still experimenting on the best way to land mine...

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net

KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[Willie van der Walt]

  Thanks Mark
  I am going to do just that and will let you know what the results are.
  Regards
  Willie


  - Original Message - 
  From: "Mark Langford" <n5...@hiwaay.net>
  To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
  Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 8:55 PM
  Subject: Re: KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway


  > Willie van der Walt wrote:
  >
  >> Today was the 4th flight with "shreg" and it ended in the felt on the
  >> extended runway. I came in on finals and did a side slip in a 75 degree
  >> X-wind. The speed was down to 90 mph when I crossed the fence and I was
  >> about 1m above the runway over the numbers. I was hoping to loose the
  >> extra 10 mph but no way. <
  >
  > I don't claim to be an expert in landing a KR, but I would probably do a
  > go-around on my short strip if I crossed the fence at 90 mph, and I have
  > split flaps for drag reduction.  If I were you I'd go to altitude and
  > ascertain  the exact stall speed, and come over the fence at something 
like
  > 1.2x that speed (which I'm sure you already know), which for me is about
  > 80mph indicated.  My touchdown speed is around 65 mph (true airspeed), 
and
  > at about 60 TAS it's done flying in the three point configuration.  I 
think
  > you'll be OK once you get the speed down and learn how far down the 
runway
  > you can stand to go before you need to do a go-around.  I do my best to 
hit
  > about 50' down from the end of the runway every time.  Sometimes I'm 
going
  > so slow the tail starts dropping, but a little throttle will straighten 
it
  > right back out.
  >
  > Wheel landing fans will probably say to wheel land it and get on the 
brakes
  > until it's below landing speed and then plant the tail, but there again, 
it
  > helps to be going slower on touchdown that it sounds like you were 
going.
  > As short as my field is, I can't land without brakes, either way.  But 
then
  > I'm still experimenting on the best way to land mine...
  >
  > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
  > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
  > email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
  >
  >
  > ___
  > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
  > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
  > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
  >

KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[VIRGIL N SALISBURY]

Reduce your approach speed !! If it wanted to fly at 60, then
approach near there.
 Your choice of speed, not mine, Virg

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 20:16:07 +0200 "Willie van der Walt"
 writes:
> Today was the 4th flight with "shreg" and it ended in the felt on the 
> extended runway. I came in on finals and did a side slip in a 75 
> degree X-wind. The speed was down to 90 mph when I crossed the fence 
> and I was about 1m above the runway over the numbers. I was hoping 
> to loose the extra 10 mph but no way. The throttle was closed at 
> idle about 1000 rpm but the plane kept on floating. I then put the 
> wheels onto the runway and held it firmly on the ground. The speed 
> was indicating 60 while running with the tail up. There was still 
> about 600m of runway left. I pulled back slightly to apply brakes 
> but then the wheels hardly touched the ground and I could feel The 
> KR wanted to get airborne again. At 40mph I could pull back on the 
> stick and apply enough brakes to almost lift the tail. I had no 
> direct forward visibility over the nose and was shocked to see the 
> loop entrance, at the holding point, coming past at about 20mph. I 
> went off the tar into the long grass and almost flipped over as the 
> grass grabbed the wheels, spats and wings all at the same time. This 
> was a quick stop. Even the engine stopped. Hennie repaired the prop 
> well because the tips held up well against the grass. Only some 
> marks on the red tip paint. I pushed the plane back to the hanger 
> and left it there for the night as I had enough excitement for one 
> day.
> 
> In summery. I need to get the speed down to 80 over the fence or go 
> around and try again if I am still above over the numbers. Wish I 
> could fit airbrakes like we had on the gliders when I sailed at 
> Donaldson Dam.
> 
> If I can not get landings right within the next 3 or 4 times I am 
> going to fit a belly plate brake or something. 
> 
> What can I do to loose the lift after round out?
> 
> Regards Willie www.riversafaris.co.za
> 
> touri...@intekom.co.za
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at 
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 
> 

KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[Dan Heath]

Well, no expert here either.  I had a good bit of time in a KR many years
ago, but only about 2.5 in this one.  On my first flight, I kept slowing it
down at 1500 ft, I would go to 3000 but the airspace limited me to 1800, to
65 mph, and flew it there for a while to get a feel of it.  That seemed slow
enough to me, so I stopped at 65.  I have never stalled a KR, but this one
will land and take the turn off mid field of a 5000 ft runway, with no drag
devices.  I did not know how to do that on my first KR, but find that slow
flight practice before trying to land makes my landings so much better. 
Mine is a stock KR2 with Diehl wings and gear, TD.  I found that the secret
is ( and it was only a secret to me ), to keep the speed as close to 65 on
final, as possible.  Then when you flare, it will settle right in.  My KR
weighs 675#, which I think really helps keep it on the ground.  Also, it is
interesting that several KR flyers have mentioned 40MPH as the magic number
where you can stick the tail on the ground.  I have found the same.  I keep
the tail up till I see that 40, then I stick the tail and I am down. 

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2007 - KR Gathering
There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for Flying
has begun.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC
---Original Message---

In summery. I need to get the speed down to 80 over the fence or go around and 
try again if I am still above over the numbers. Wish I could fit airbrakes like 
we had on the gliders when I sailed at Donaldson Dam.

KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[kenneth l wiltrout]

You need the speed brake now, with out it you'll need 3000' of runway every
time at those approach speeds.
Ken Wiltrout
Kutztown Pa

-Original Message-
From: krnet-bounces+kwiltrout1953=verizon@mylist.net
[mailto:krnet-bounces+kwiltrout1953=verizon@mylist.net] On Behalf Of
VIRGIL N SALISBURY
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 2:11 PM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: Re: KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

Reduce your approach speed !! If it wanted to fly at 60, then
approach near there.
 Your choice of speed, not mine, Virg

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 20:16:07 +0200 "Willie van der Walt"
<touri...@intekom.co.za> writes:
> Today was the 4th flight with "shreg" and it ended in the felt on the 
> extended runway. I came in on finals and did a side slip in a 75 
> degree X-wind. The speed was down to 90 mph when I crossed the fence 
> and I was about 1m above the runway over the numbers. I was hoping 
> to loose the extra 10 mph but no way. The throttle was closed at 
> idle about 1000 rpm but the plane kept on floating. I then put the 
> wheels onto the runway and held it firmly on the ground. The speed 
> was indicating 60 while running with the tail up. There was still 
> about 600m of runway left. I pulled back slightly to apply brakes 
> but then the wheels hardly touched the ground and I could feel The 
> KR wanted to get airborne again. At 40mph I could pull back on the 
> stick and apply enough brakes to almost lift the tail. I had no 
> direct forward visibility over the nose and was shocked to see the 
> loop entrance, at the holding point, coming past at about 20mph. I 
> went off the tar into the long grass and almost flipped over as the 
> grass grabbed the wheels, spats and wings all at the same time. This 
> was a quick stop. Even the engine stopped. Hennie repaired the prop 
> well because the tips held up well against the grass. Only some 
> marks on the red tip paint. I pushed the plane back to the hanger 
> and left it there for the night as I had enough excitement for one 
> day.
> 
> In summery. I need to get the speed down to 80 over the fence or go 
> around and try again if I am still above over the numbers. Wish I 
> could fit airbrakes like we had on the gliders when I sailed at 
> Donaldson Dam.
> 
> If I can not get landings right within the next 3 or 4 times I am 
> going to fit a belly plate brake or something. 
> 
> What can I do to loose the lift after round out?
> 
> Regards Willie www.riversafaris.co.za
> 
> touri...@intekom.co.za
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at 
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 
> 

___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html


-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date: 11/4/2006

KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[Barry Kruyssen]

Hi Willie

With regards to the belly board.  I retro fitted a belly board and in my
case all it does is help slow me down on finals and steapen the approach
angle (giving a better view over the nose). Once I round out it appears to
enhance the ground effect and I float further.  I think the board deflects
the airflow down onto the strip. My ground roll distance has not changed,
nor the distance I finish from the runway "numbers". My belly board does not
have any holes in it, maybe I need some, just a thought.

In my opinon I would not retor fit a belly board again, a lot of work and
weight for minimal gain. Get the numbers right and it will all be easy (as
Mark Langord said).

Regards
Barry Kruyssen
Cairns, Australia
k...@bigpond.com
http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/kr2.htm


-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Willie van der Walt
Sent: Tuesday, 7 November 2006 4:16 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

Today was the 4th flight with "shreg" and it ended in the felt on the
extended runway. I came in on finals and did a side slip in a 75 degree
X-wind. The speed was down to 90 mph when I crossed the fence and I was
about 1m above the runway over the numbers. I was hoping to loose the extra
10 mph but no way. The throttle was closed at idle about 1000 rpm but the
plane kept on floating. I then put the wheels onto the runway and held it
firmly on the ground. The speed was indicating 60 while running with the
tail up. There was still about 600m of runway left. I pulled back slightly
to apply brakes but then the wheels hardly touched the ground and I could
feel The KR wanted to get airborne again. At 40mph I could pull back on the
stick and apply enough brakes to almost lift the tail. I had no direct
forward visibility over the nose and was shocked to see the loop entrance,
at the holding point, coming past at about 20mph. I went off the tar into
the long grass and almost flipped over as the grass grabbed the wheels,
spats and wings all at the same time. This was a quick stop. Even the engine
stopped. Hennie repaired the prop well because the tips held up well against
the grass. Only some marks on the red tip paint. I pushed the plane back to
the hanger and left it there for the night as I had enough excitement for
one day.

In summery. I need to get the speed down to 80 over the fence or go around
and try again if I am still above over the numbers. Wish I could fit
airbrakes like we had on the gliders when I sailed at Donaldson Dam.

If I can not get landings right within the next 3 or 4 times I am going to
fit a belly plate brake or something. 

What can I do to loose the lift after round out?

Regards Willie www.riversafaris.co.za

touri...@intekom.co.za

KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[kenneth l wiltrout]

My board is 10X20 w a max deflection of 70 degrees, It does have 2 rows of
holes. In my case the results were very dramatic,at 70 over the #'s I can
get into the shortest runways. This summer I put it down on a 18oo' grass
strip in northern Pa. Without the board never in a million years. I was
hoping to get a nose down attitude on short final but it decends so rapidly
I'm always nose high.

Ken W
Kutztown

-Original Message-
From: krnet-bounces+kwiltrout1953=verizon@mylist.net
[mailto:krnet-bounces+kwiltrout1953=verizon@mylist.net] On Behalf Of
Barry Kruyssen
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 6:03 PM
To: 'KRnet'
Subject: RE: KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway


Hi Willie

With regards to the belly board.  I retro fitted a belly board and in my
case all it does is help slow me down on finals and steapen the approach
angle (giving a better view over the nose). Once I round out it appears to
enhance the ground effect and I float further.  I think the board deflects
the airflow down onto the strip. My ground roll distance has not changed,
nor the distance I finish from the runway "numbers". My belly board does not
have any holes in it, maybe I need some, just a thought.

In my opinon I would not retor fit a belly board again, a lot of work and
weight for minimal gain. Get the numbers right and it will all be easy (as
Mark Langord said).

Regards
Barry Kruyssen
Cairns, Australia
k...@bigpond.com
http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/kr2.htm


-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Willie van der Walt
Sent: Tuesday, 7 November 2006 4:16 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

Today was the 4th flight with "shreg" and it ended in the felt on the
extended runway. I came in on finals and did a side slip in a 75 degree
X-wind. The speed was down to 90 mph when I crossed the fence and I was
about 1m above the runway over the numbers. I was hoping to loose the extra
10 mph but no way. The throttle was closed at idle about 1000 rpm but the
plane kept on floating. I then put the wheels onto the runway and held it
firmly on the ground. The speed was indicating 60 while running with the
tail up. There was still about 600m of runway left. I pulled back slightly
to apply brakes but then the wheels hardly touched the ground and I could
feel The KR wanted to get airborne again. At 40mph I could pull back on the
stick and apply enough brakes to almost lift the tail. I had no direct
forward visibility over the nose and was shocked to see the loop entrance,
at the holding point, coming past at about 20mph. I went off the tar into
the long grass and almost flipped over as the grass grabbed the wheels,
spats and wings all at the same time. This was a quick stop. Even the engine
stopped. Hennie repaired the prop well because the tips held up well against
the grass. Only some marks on the red tip paint. I pushed the plane back to
the hanger and left it there for the night as I had enough excitement for
one day.

In summery. I need to get the speed down to 80 over the fence or go around
and try again if I am still above over the numbers. Wish I could fit
airbrakes like we had on the gliders when I sailed at Donaldson Dam.

If I can not get landings right within the next 3 or 4 times I am going to
fit a belly plate brake or something. 

What can I do to loose the lift after round out?

Regards Willie www.riversafaris.co.za

touri...@intekom.co.za


___
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-- 
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[Red]

if the belly board were located several inches aft,
would that make a difference in the nose down
attitude,  or create a problem?



--- kenneth l wiltrout <kwiltrout1...@verizon.net>
wrote:

> My board is 10X20 w a max deflection of 70 degrees,
> It does have 2 rows of
> holes. In my case the results were very dramatic,at
> 70 over the #'s I can
> get into the shortest runways. This summer I put it
> down on a 18oo' grass
> strip in northern Pa. Without the board never in a
> million years. I was
> hoping to get a nose down attitude on short final
> but it decends so rapidly
> I'm always nose high.
> 
> Ken W
> Kutztown
> 
> -Original Message-
> From:
> krnet-bounces+kwiltrout1953=verizon@mylist.net
>
[mailto:krnet-bounces+kwiltrout1953=verizon@mylist.net]
> On Behalf Of
> Barry Kruyssen
> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 6:03 PM
> To: 'KRnet'
> Subject: RE: KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the
> runway
> 
>  
> Hi Willie
> 
> With regards to the belly board.  I retro fitted a
> belly board and in my
> case all it does is help slow me down on finals and
> steapen the approach
> angle (giving a better view over the nose). Once I
> round out it appears to
> enhance the ground effect and I float further.  I
> think the board deflects
> the airflow down onto the strip. My ground roll
> distance has not changed,
> nor the distance I finish from the runway "numbers".
> My belly board does not
> have any holes in it, maybe I need some, just a
> thought.
> 
> In my opinon I would not retor fit a belly board
> again, a lot of work and
> weight for minimal gain. Get the numbers right and
> it will all be easy (as
> Mark Langord said).
> 
> Regards
> Barry Kruyssen
> Cairns, Australia
> k...@bigpond.com
> http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/kr2.htm
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-
> From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net
> [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
> Of Willie van der Walt
> Sent: Tuesday, 7 November 2006 4:16 AM
> To: KRnet
> Subject: KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway
> 
> Today was the 4th flight with "shreg" and it ended
> in the felt on the
> extended runway. I came in on finals and did a side
> slip in a 75 degree
> X-wind. The speed was down to 90 mph when I crossed
> the fence and I was
> about 1m above the runway over the numbers. I was
> hoping to loose the extra
> 10 mph but no way. The throttle was closed at idle
> about 1000 rpm but the
> plane kept on floating. I then put the wheels onto
> the runway and held it
> firmly on the ground. The speed was indicating 60
> while running with the
> tail up. There was still about 600m of runway left.
> I pulled back slightly
> to apply brakes but then the wheels hardly touched
> the ground and I could
> feel The KR wanted to get airborne again. At 40mph I
> could pull back on the
> stick and apply enough brakes to almost lift the
> tail. I had no direct
> forward visibility over the nose and was shocked to
> see the loop entrance,
> at the holding point, coming past at about 20mph. I
> went off the tar into
> the long grass and almost flipped over as the grass
> grabbed the wheels,
> spats and wings all at the same time. This was a
> quick stop. Even the engine
> stopped. Hennie repaired the prop well because the
> tips held up well against
> the grass. Only some marks on the red tip paint. I
> pushed the plane back to
> the hanger and left it there for the night as I had
> enough excitement for
> one day.
> 
> In summery. I need to get the speed down to 80 over
> the fence or go around
> and try again if I am still above over the numbers.
> Wish I could fit
> airbrakes like we had on the gliders when I sailed
> at Donaldson Dam.
> 
> If I can not get landings right within the next 3 or
> 4 times I am going to
> fit a belly plate brake or something. 
> 
> What can I do to loose the lift after round out?
> 
> Regards Willie www.riversafaris.co.za
> 
> touri...@intekom.co.za
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 -
> Release Date: 11/4/2006
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
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KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[Rich Seifert]

Hi Virgil
Congratulations on a good landing.  I take it you can still fly it
again.  You really do need to get some confidence in your KR's slow flight
charactoristics as another KR flyer suggested.  Too much speed can be as
dangerous as too little speed (PIO).  You should feel confortable crossing
the fence at 70 mph.  Keep practicing untill you are.  Remember these KR's
don't slow down unless you get the nose up.  You have to rely a lot on
periferal vision.  On an asfalt runway, just stay between the grass.  On a
grass strip stay between the fences.  Good luck and keep at it.
- Original Message -
From: "VIRGIL N SALISBURY" <virg...@juno.com>
To: <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway


> Reduce your approach speed !! If it wanted to fly at 60, then
> approach near there.
>  Your choice of speed, not mine, Virg
>
> On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 20:16:07 +0200 "Willie van der Walt"
> <touri...@intekom.co.za> writes:
> > Today was the 4th flight with "shreg" and it ended in the felt on the
> > extended runway. I came in on finals and did a side slip in a 75
> > degree X-wind. The speed was down to 90 mph when I crossed the fence
> > and I was about 1m above the runway over the numbers. I was hoping
> > to loose the extra 10 mph but no way. The throttle was closed at
> > idle about 1000 rpm but the plane kept on floating. I then put the
> > wheels onto the runway and held it firmly on the ground. The speed
> > was indicating 60 while running with the tail up. There was still
> > about 600m of runway left. I pulled back slightly to apply brakes
> > but then the wheels hardly touched the ground and I could feel The
> > KR wanted to get airborne again. At 40mph I could pull back on the
> > stick and apply enough brakes to almost lift the tail. I had no
> > direct forward visibility over the nose and was shocked to see the
> > loop entrance, at the holding point, coming past at about 20mph. I
> > went off the tar into the long grass and almost flipped over as the
> > grass grabbed the wheels, spats and wings all at the same time. This
> > was a quick stop. Even the engine stopped. Hennie repaired the prop
> > well because the tips held up well against the grass. Only some
> > marks on the red tip paint. I pushed the plane back to the hanger
> > and left it there for the night as I had enough excitement for one
> > day.
> >
> > In summery. I need to get the speed down to 80 over the fence or go
> > around and try again if I am still above over the numbers. Wish I
> > could fit airbrakes like we had on the gliders when I sailed at
> > Donaldson Dam.
> >
> > If I can not get landings right within the next 3 or 4 times I am
> > going to fit a belly plate brake or something.
> >
> > What can I do to loose the lift after round out?
> >
> > Regards Willie www.riversafaris.co.za
> >
> > touri...@intekom.co.za
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at
> > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> >
> >
>
>
>

KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[VIRGIL N SALISBURY]

Rich, It was not my landing. The numbers comment was mine, Virg

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 18:00:14 -0800 "Rich Seifert" <rseif...@socal.rr.com>
writes:
> Hi Virgil
> Congratulations on a good landing.  I take it you can still fly 
> it
> again.  You really do need to get some confidence in your KR's slow 
> flight
> charactoristics as another KR flyer suggested.  Too much speed can 
> be as
> dangerous as too little speed (PIO).  You should feel confortable 
> crossing
> the fence at 70 mph.  Keep practicing untill you are.  Remember 
> these KR's
> don't slow down unless you get the nose up.  You have to rely a lot 
> on
> periferal vision.  On an asfalt runway, just stay between the grass. 
>  On a
> grass strip stay between the fences.  Good luck and keep at it.
> - Original Message -
> From: "VIRGIL N SALISBURY" <virg...@juno.com>
> To: <kr...@mylist.net>
> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 11:11 AM
> Subject: Re: KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway
> 
> 
> > Reduce your approach speed !! If it wanted to fly at 60, 
> then
> > approach near there.
> >  Your choice of speed, not mine, Virg
> >
> > On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 20:16:07 +0200 "Willie van der Walt"
> > <touri...@intekom.co.za> writes:
> > > Today was the 4th flight with "shreg" and it ended in the felt 
> on the
> > > extended runway. I came in on finals and did a side slip in a 
> 75
> > > degree X-wind. The speed was down to 90 mph when I crossed the 
> fence
> > > and I was about 1m above the runway over the numbers. I was 
> hoping
> > > to loose the extra 10 mph but no way. The throttle was closed 
> at
> > > idle about 1000 rpm but the plane kept on floating. I then put 
> the
> > > wheels onto the runway and held it firmly on the ground. The 
> speed
> > > was indicating 60 while running with the tail up. There was 
> still
> > > about 600m of runway left. I pulled back slightly to apply 
> brakes
> > > but then the wheels hardly touched the ground and I could feel 
> The
> > > KR wanted to get airborne again. At 40mph I could pull back on 
> the
> > > stick and apply enough brakes to almost lift the tail. I had no
> > > direct forward visibility over the nose and was shocked to see 
> the
> > > loop entrance, at the holding point, coming past at about 20mph. 
> I
> > > went off the tar into the long grass and almost flipped over as 
> the
> > > grass grabbed the wheels, spats and wings all at the same time. 
> This
> > > was a quick stop. Even the engine stopped. Hennie repaired the 
> prop
> > > well because the tips held up well against the grass. Only some
> > > marks on the red tip paint. I pushed the plane back to the 
> hanger
> > > and left it there for the night as I had enough excitement for 
> one
> > > day.
> > >
> > > In summery. I need to get the speed down to 80 over the fence or 
> go
> > > around and try again if I am still above over the numbers. Wish 
> I
> > > could fit airbrakes like we had on the gliders when I sailed at
> > > Donaldson Dam.
> > >
> > > If I can not get landings right within the next 3 or 4 times I 
> am
> > > going to fit a belly plate brake or something.
> > >
> > > What can I do to loose the lift after round out?
> > >
> > > Regards Willie www.riversafaris.co.za
> > >
> > > touri...@intekom.co.za
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Search the KRnet Archives at
> > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to 
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at 
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 
> 

KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[oldbiker...@aol.com]

In a message dated 11/6/2006 10:57:03 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
n5...@hiwaay.net writes:

you can  stand to go before you need to do a go-around.  I do my best to hit  
about 50' down from the end of the runway every time.  Sometimes I'm  going 


A lot of you guys are having trouble getting in and out of short strips you  
should try VGs( vortex generators) I have them on my Fisher Horizon 1 normally 
 it took off and landed around 60 mph and now it's 40 mph we have a 3500 foot 
 dirt runway out in back, I can land  and TO twice on it and with out  VGs no 
way. The guy runs an add on Barnstormers.
Ray Lee
KR2 9763

KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[Willie van der Walt]

  What will the reduction on cruise speed be?

  - Original Message - 
  From: <oldbiker...@aol.com>
  To: <kr...@mylist.net>
  Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:25 AM
  Subject: Re: KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway


  >
  > In a message dated 11/6/2006 10:57:03 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
  > n5...@hiwaay.net writes:
  >
  > you can  stand to go before you need to do a go-around.  I do my best to 
hit
  > about 50' down from the end of the runway every time.  Sometimes I'm 
going
  >
  >
  > A lot of you guys are having trouble getting in and out of short strips 
you
  > should try VGs( vortex generators) I have them on my Fisher Horizon 1 
normally
  > it took off and landed around 60 mph and now it's 40 mph we have a 3500 
foot
  > dirt runway out in back, I can land  and TO twice on it and with out 
VGs no
  > way. The guy runs an add on Barnstormers.
  > Ray Lee
  > KR2 9763
  > ___
  > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
  > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
  > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
  >

KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[Robert Evans]

Willie, I went to the barnstormers.com website, there is NOT a decrease in
cruise speed. Here is the link, scroll down to the ad about vortexgenerators
and read, I'm going to get some for my bird for sure. As long as I'm down
for maintenance, I'm making the mod.

Bob
N339RJ

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Willie van der Walt
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 1:59 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

  What will the reduction on cruise speed be?

  - Original Message - 
  From: <oldbiker...@aol.com>
  To: <kr...@mylist.net>
  Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:25 AM
  Subject: Re: KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway


  >
  > In a message dated 11/6/2006 10:57:03 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
  > n5...@hiwaay.net writes:
  >
  > you can  stand to go before you need to do a go-around.  I do my best to

hit
  > about 50' down from the end of the runway every time.  Sometimes I'm 
going
  >
  >
  > A lot of you guys are having trouble getting in and out of short strips 
you
  > should try VGs( vortex generators) I have them on my Fisher Horizon 1 
normally
  > it took off and landed around 60 mph and now it's 40 mph we have a 3500 
foot
  > dirt runway out in back, I can land  and TO twice on it and with out 
VGs no
  > way. The guy runs an add on Barnstormers.
  > Ray Lee
  > KR2 9763
  > ___
  > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
  > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
  > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
  >


___
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KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[Willie van der Walt]

  Okay now you have all my attention. I want it. What is the next step? If I 
buy them how do I fit it or does it come with instructions?
  Hi Robert there is no link. I'll check out barnstomers .com
  regards
  and thanks to all.
  Willie

  - Original Message - 
  From: "Robert Evans" <rev...@ngenerationwireless.com>
  To: "'KRnet'" <kr...@mylist.net>
  Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 9:10 AM
  Subject: RE: KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway


  > Willie, I went to the barnstormers.com website, there is NOT a decrease 
in
  > cruise speed. Here is the link, scroll down to the ad about 
vortexgenerators
  > and read, I'm going to get some for my bird for sure. As long as I'm 
down
  > for maintenance, I'm making the mod.
  >
  > Bob
  > N339RJ
  >
  >

KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

[StRaNgEdAyS]

Another thing to keep in mind with regard to the use of VG's is that careful
placement is required for them to have the greatest benefit. This, unless
your aircraft is mass produced and not "unique", is achieved by a lot (read
hundreds of hours of placing, documenting, moving, rinse, repeat) of trial
and error. 
The other thing to consider is that the KR's wing is more than capable of
the job you're asking of it without the addition of VG's (bear in mind here
I've not flown a KR outside of X-Plane yet and I'm only speaking from an
aerodynamic standpoint).
If I read correctly, you have no flaps nor belly board. I've a preference to
flaps but either will help you to reduce those numbers without going to the
effort of adding VG's and in less overall time, how long would it take to
retro fit a set of flaps?. I'm also little skeptical of the no top end speed
loss claim since VG's do create drag by their nature.

Peter Bancks
Ballina Australia.

---Original Message---

From: Willie van der Walt
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 11/07/06 19:37:04
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway

  Okay now you have all my attention. I want it. What is the next step? If I
buy them how do I fit it or does it come with instructions?
  Hi Robert there is no link. I'll check out barnstomers .com
  regards
  and thanks to all.
  Willie

  - Original Message -
  From: "Robert Evans" <rev...@ngenerationwireless.com>
  To: "'KRnet'" <kr...@mylist.net>
  Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 9:10 AM
  Subject: RE: KR> "Shreg" went off the end of the runway


  > Willie, I went to the barnstormers.com website, there is NOT a decrease
in
  > cruise speed. Here is the link, scroll down to the ad about
vortexgenerators
  > and read, I'm going to get some for my bird for sure. As long as I'm
down
  > for maintenance, I'm making the mod.
  >
  > Bob
  > N339RJ
  >
  >


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