KR> KR-1 Plans Available ? Where ? How Much? other Terms ?

[Tony King]

I can sympathise with Mike in one aspect - trying to do business with RR is
very frustrating.  I tried for several months with faxes, phone calls, etc.
and never got any response.  In the end I gave up and some time later I
bought a set of KR2S plans from a KRNet member who was selling his (genuine
and unused) set.

However, whether or not the plans are readily available from RR isn't
actually relevant.  They're the intellectual property of RR and RR can
choose to do whatever they want with them - including never selling them to
anyone.  That still doesn't make it legal for anyone else to violate the
copyright.  It's the same thing as if you refuse to sell me your car so I go
and take it.  You have no obligation to sell me your car and RR has no
obligation to sell KR plans.  If they decide to provide lousy service (which
was my experience), they're perfectly within their rights and if you or I
don't like that we are under no obligation to deal with them.  If that means
you then can't build a KR, that's the way it is.  It's not an excuse for
ripping them off.

Tony King
Brisbane Australia




2009/5/26 Scott Perkins <2sc...@bellsouth.net>

> The question I have not seen answered is whether the KR-1 plans
> are available from the RAND company and if so how much and how long
> does it take and what kind of condition are they in.  IE such as
> complete, hi quality, accurate etc.
> Scott
>
> sidney.w...@l-3com.com wrote:
> >
> > >...is someone trying to down load plans without  buying them or
> > something. If so I agree with you I have had my plans sence 1974...
> > -
> >
> > My reading from the Copyright Office website indicates the KR plans
> > copyright may expire on December 31, 2047.
> > http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap3.html
> > Copies of the plans sets were sold prior to 1978 and would be considered
> > as commercialized intellectual property with a repose of 70 years from
> > January 1, 1978.  Rand Robinson Engineering would be the legal owner of
> > that intellectual property.
> > The previous assertion by Mike, that the KR series plans are in the
> > public domain, is wishful thinking on his part.
> >
> > Sid Wood
> > Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
> > Mechanicsville, MD, USA
> >
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> >
> > --
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.18/1254 - Release Date: 1/31/08
> 8:30 PM
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> KR-1 Plans Available ? Where ? How Much? other Terms ?

[Mark Langford]

Scott Perkins wrote:

> The question I have not seen answered is whether the KR-1 plans
> are available from the RAND company and if so how much and how long
> does it take and what kind of condition are they in.

Sure they're still available.  See http://www.fly-kr.com/kr1.htm for how to 
order, and http://www.fly-kr.com/ for the phone/fax number.  The best (and 
perhaps only) way to get them is send a check for the proper amount 
(including shipping) and you'll get them eventually.

They are not the most detailed plans you'll ever see, but what would you 
expect for $60?  Most folks agree that there are lots of ambiguities in the 
plans, but people manage to build them just the same.  Even the KR-2 plans 
have more detail, and they are not famous for detail.

They are apparently available from Rand Robinson because the "logic" behindd 
Mike Walling posting them to the web in three different places was because:

 "I'm putting the plans on the net because I'm irritated at how long it took 
the get the plans from Rand Robinson, there was no chance of telephone 
correspondance and I was irritated by the serious lack of quality in the 
plans. "

I was stuck in an airliner when this email came across the list, but as soon 
as I read it, I unsubscribed the guy.  We don't need people like that on 
this list.  He's permanently banned.  I don't like to do that because it 
levels real safety concerns on builders, but in Mike's case, I made an 
exception.  He then signed back on with another address, which took me about 
5 seconds to ascertain that it was him, and unsubscribed that one.  The 
downside for him may be that I now know where he works and his employer's 
email address.  KRnet is now a closed list which will require authorization 
to join, starting Sunday.

I've visited the links he provided in his email, and his comments are 
deplorable.  I can't post what he said, but basically he's deliberately 
encouraging any and all comers to download and spread the plans around. 
Here's what he wrote:

>>I got kicked off of the KRnet.org mailing list
for this torrent and I make no apologies. I Figure I'll buy the next set
of plans and post them just as a F--- You<<   (letters replaced by dashes by 
ML)

This guy Mike appears to have a huge chip on his shoulder, and I personally 
would consider him to have emotional problems, or perhaps he's really only 8 
years old.  I've exchanged several emails with him, and he apparently has no 
concept of what "intellectual property" is, although he may be enlightened 
when Jeannette's daughter the attorney contacts him.  Failing that, there's 
always "bad karma"...

Mark Langford
N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
website at http://www.N56ML.com

KR> KR-1 Plans Available ? Where ? How Much? other Terms ?

[Fred Johnson]

Scott the plans are still $60.00 I believe, and takes about 4 weeks. At
least that's how long it took to get mine.



Fred Johnson
Reno, NV


The question I have not seen answered is whether the KR-1 plans
are available from the RAND company and if so how much and how long
does it take and what kind of condition are they in.  IE such as
complete, hi quality, accurate etc.
Scott

KR> KR-1 Plans Available ? Where ? How Much? other Terms ?

[Ron Butterfield]

The KR-1 plans are available from Rand Robinson.

They are $65.

Delivery runs from 3-8 weeks, depending on a variety of factors.

The plans are as complete and accurate as they have ever been.  They are
more complete and accurate than the original versions, as they come with
many revisions that have been incorporated over the years.

They are not, and probably never will be, as complete as the later 2 and 2S
plans, hence the difference in price.

On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Scott Perkins <2sc...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> The question I have not seen answered is whether the KR-1 plans
> are available from the RAND company and if so how much and how long
> does it take and what kind of condition are they in.  IE such as
> complete, hi quality, accurate etc.
> Scott
>
>  



-- 
Regards,
RonB

KR> KR-1 Plans Available ? Where ? How Much? other Terms ?

[Mark Langford]

Scott Perkins wrote:

> The question I have not seen answered is whether the KR-1 plans
> are available from the RAND company and if so how much and how long
> does it take and what kind of condition are they in.  IE such as
> complete, hi quality, accurate etc.

Well, Mike, the guy who posted the plans to the web wrote:

> I'm putting the plans on the net because I'm irritated at how long it took
> the get the plans from Rand Robinson, there was no chance of telephone
> correspondance and I was irritated by the serious lack of quality in the
> plans.

Which I interpret to mean that he eventually got them, and is one of the two 
sets he scanned and made available to whoever wants to download them.  Or 
you could do the RIGHT thing and send a check to the address at 
www.fly-kr.com  (plans prices are there as well).

I'll probably have a lot more to say on this later, but suffice it to say 
that Mike's been unsubscribed and banned from the list.  I don't like doing 
that because I consider it to be a safety issue when you cut somebody off 
from the list, but in his case, I've certainly made an exception.

As for quality, the plans are ancient and leave a lot to the imagination 
(even more than the KR-2 plans), but as many have said before, a plane can 
be built from them.  I own a set myself, which I bought and paid for.

Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL
mail: N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
website: www.N56ML.com 

KR> KR-1 Plans Available ? Where ? How Much? other Terms ?

[Scott Perkins]

The question I have not seen answered is whether the KR-1 plans
are available from the RAND company and if so how much and how long
does it take and what kind of condition are they in.  IE such as
complete, hi quality, accurate etc.
Scott

sidney.w...@l-3com.com wrote:
> 
> >...is someone trying to down load plans without  buying them or
> something. If so I agree with you I have had my plans sence 1974...
> -
> 
> My reading from the Copyright Office website indicates the KR plans
> copyright may expire on December 31, 2047.
> http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap3.html
> Copies of the plans sets were sold prior to 1978 and would be considered
> as commercialized intellectual property with a repose of 70 years from
> January 1, 1978.  Rand Robinson Engineering would be the legal owner of
> that intellectual property.
> The previous assertion by Mike, that the KR series plans are in the
> public domain, is wishful thinking on his part.
> 
> Sid Wood
> Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
> Mechanicsville, MD, USA
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.18/1254 - Release Date: 1/31/08 
> 8:30 PM