Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Libreoffice products name (writer, cal, base, ...)
Hi Mikel, On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 3:19 PM, Mikel Pascual - Akaita mi...@akaita.com wrote: So, summing it up, each translator can just choose whether translate those names or not... I really think that people from marketing or some comittee should decide about it, so LibO keeps being consistent across every language. In my opinion, we don't need a committee to decide but may be more a clear decision between us and then document it in a FAQ that we should have one day or another. I by myself am not sure if it would be more convenient to keep base, calc,... so users can get to identify them, or translate them so new users can understand everything easier. Like the others said, these are application names, so better not translate them and keep them to not confuse the users already using OOo. Maybe, it could also depend on the userbase for each language... lot's of strategic options here. The names are already known and if you do some researches on the Web, they appear in numerous documentation, sites, etc. in various languages. So I'll keep the same rule available from OOo, keep the names as they are. Kind regards Sophie -- Founding member of The Document Foundation -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Libreoffice products name (writer, cal, base, ...)
A question though - how are they handled in non-Latin scripts like CJK or Hindi/Urdu etc? Michael 03/08/2011 14:50, sgrìobh Sophie Gautier: Like the others said, these are application names, so better not translate them and keep them to not confuse the users already using OOo. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Libreoffice products name (writer, cal, base, ...)
We use Write, Calc, Impress, Base and Math respectively for each program in Traditional Chinese. On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 10:12 PM, Michael Bauer f...@akerbeltz.org wrote: A question though - how are they handled in non-Latin scripts like CJK or Hindi/Urdu etc? Michael 03/08/2011 14:50, sgrìobh Sophie Gautier: Like the others said, these are application names, so better not translate them and keep them to not confuse the users already using OOo. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Sincerely, by Cheng-Chia Tseng -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Libreoffice products name (writer, cal, base, ...)
2011/8/3 Mikel Pascual - Akaita mi...@akaita.com [snip] These are the 25 languages that seems to translate %PRODUCTNAME% Writer: bn, brx, my, dgo, dz, eo, et, hi, ks, kok, lo, lt, mai, mni, ne, or, fa, pa_IN, sa_IN, sat, sd ,ta, bo, ts, tn et?! Could you say where it's translated for et? It shouldn't be... Regards, Mihkel -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Libreoffice products name (writer, cal, base, ...)
2011/8/3 Mikel Pascual - Akaita mi...@akaita.com On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 10:09 PM, Mihkel Tõnnov mihh...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/8/3 Mikel Pascual - Akaita mi...@akaita.com [snip] These are the 25 languages that seems to translate %PRODUCTNAME% Writer: bn, brx, my, dgo, dz, eo, et, hi, ks, kok, lo, lt, mai, mni, ne, or, fa, pa_IN, sa_IN, sat, sd ,ta, bo, ts, tn et?! Could you say where it's translated for et? It shouldn't be... Regards, Mihkel Note that I just said seem (sorry I wrote seems, what a shame :( ). In 'et', for example: https://translations.documentfoundation.org/et/libo34x_ui/translate.html?unit=3298935 https://translations.documentfoundation.org/et/libo34x_ui/translate.html?unit=3300025 In these Writer is not translated - what you can observe here are case endings as needed in Estonian (we have many cases and quite a few prepositions or postpositions, most of them needs anyway some specific case...) in 'et', there are also at least some translations from writer/web to writer/veeb: https://translations.documentfoundation.org/et/libo34x_ui/translate.html?unit=3302917 that's why I thought that we should decide about this. It seems like someone in 'et' team thought that translating them would be fine? I found the search tool in pootle very helpful. Just enter https://translations.documentfoundation.org/et/libo34x_ui/ and use the search box on the right-top. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Libreoffice products name (writer, cal, base, ...)
2011/8/3 Mikel Pascual - Akaita mi...@akaita.com On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 10:09 PM, Mihkel Tõnnov mihh...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/8/3 Mikel Pascual - Akaita mi...@akaita.com [snip] These are the 25 languages that seems to translate %PRODUCTNAME% Writer: bn, brx, my, dgo, dz, eo, et, hi, ks, kok, lo, lt, mai, mni, ne, or, fa, pa_IN, sa_IN, sat, sd ,ta, bo, ts, tn et?! Could you say where it's translated for et? It shouldn't be... Regards, Mihkel Note that I just said seem (sorry I wrote seems, what a shame :( ). In 'et', for example: https://translations.documentfoundation.org/et/libo34x_ui/translate.html?unit=3298935 https://translations.documentfoundation.org/et/libo34x_ui/translate.html?unit=3300025 in 'et', there are also at least some translations from writer/web to writer/veeb: https://translations.documentfoundation.org/et/libo34x_ui/translate.html?unit=3302917 that's why I thought that we should decide about this. It seems like someone in 'et' team thought that translating them would be fine? Yeah, as Marek said, the name isn't really translated there. Thanks anyway :) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Libreoffice products name (writer, cal, base, ...)
Hi Mikel, I don't belong to steering committee, but for pt we don't translate Calc, Writer and others because they are modules of the application. It makes more sense to us that this should be as is. In fact there is no accurate translation for those modules names. For instance, if You use Microsoft office I guess that the application name remain equal for all languages. The same thing for desktop applications. Imagine that You are translating Gnome. Do You translate Gnome word for Your language? Or Shotwell, Openshot, VLC, Mplayer and so on... But remember, this is only our opinion and doesn't bond none of other languages or steering committee. Regards 2011/8/1 Mikel Pascual - Akaita mi...@akaita.com Hi, I checked about a dozen languages, and almost everybody translates %PRODUCTNAME Writer (for example) as %PRODUCTNAME Writer. And I'm wondering... why is that so? Is that a directive from the steering comittee? I guess that most people opens LibO via right-click--new..., double clicking a doc/spreadsheet/... , or even using the LibreOffice link (I mean, the startscreen with link to the products, etc). Anyway, the applications menu is left in english, and those (very little) icons are not that well-know. I think having those names translated should be a must. Keeping them in english just puts up an entry-barrier for people who don't know english (that's one of the reasons to have translations, isn't it?). So, could we translate those names? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Sérgio Marques -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Libreoffice products name (writer, cal, base, ...)
On 01/08/11 20:55, Sveinn í Felli wrote: Þann mán 1.ágú 2011 15:38, skrifaði Mikel Pascual - Akaita: Hi, I checked about a dozen languages, and almost everybody translates %PRODUCTNAME Writer (for example) as %PRODUCTNAME Writer. And I'm wondering... why is that so? Is that a directive from the steering comittee? I guess that most people opens LibO via right-click--new..., double clicking a doc/spreadsheet/... , or even using the LibreOffice link (I mean, the startscreen with link to the products, etc). Anyway, the applications menu is left in english, and those (very little) icons are not that well-know. I think having those names translated should be a must. Keeping them in english just puts up an entry-barrier for people who don't know english (that's one of the reasons to have translations, isn't it?). So, could we translate those names? I'd say that this is up to each translation team to decide, most have decided not to translate those application names. Maybe because if they do, they would have to decide upon good translations of those names, to coordinate their usage through several translation domaines (in LibreOffice, Launchpad, GNOME, KDE, etc), to keep up pace in translating helpcontent, manuals and bunch of other stuff for your users - so they can access information about these applications under their new (translated) name. So maybe it's mostly question about manpower... ;-) Best regards, Sveinn í Felli Why do we have this discussion at all? The product names are part of the branding of the trademark and shouldn't be tampered with. Mikel, I suspect you of being pretty new to this game... – Olav -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Libreoffice products name (writer, cal, base, ...)
У пон, 01. 08 2011. у 17:21 +0100, Sérgio Marques пише: Imagine that You are translating Gnome. Do You translate Gnome word for Your language? Or Shotwell, Openshot, VLC, Mplayer and so on... It is not that uncommon, even more if your language is not written in Latin script ;) Sometimes the name can be transcribed or you can ignore official grammar rules and write the name in original script. But if the name is something generic like Disk utility or contain a meaningful word playing, it is popular to translate it. Microsoft is translating application names like Paint and Notepad. For marketing reasons they do not translate Windows, Office or Word. Now, in this case Writer can be a strategic marketing name that should not be translated for any costs, or you can see only LibreOffice as such and do translate funny word play that the program used for writing is called Writer, and the program used for drawing is called Draw. In the past, Sun was against translations of product names. They even requested not to translate generic product names like Report builder or Presentation minimzer. Now if you are a user of localized software not speaking English language, would you prefer Presentation minimizer or a translated name like Умањивач презентације (Serbian)? In the code itself translation of main product names is only partially supported (you can translate entries in configuration panel and some of the messages, but not in the window title bar or a shortcut title). It would be fun to have a patch giving this option, but it is just not worth it for me to dig in. Cheers, Goran Rakic -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Libreoffice products name (writer, cal, base, ...)
Why do we have this discussion at all? The product names are part of the branding of the trademark and shouldn't be tampered with. That's the thing. That's why I mentioned the Steering Comittee, and that's why I didn't just translate those. If LibreOffice Writer is the product's name, the logical thing is to keep those and hope that they'll become as known as Word, Excel, etc. Right now, they're just not known, and I myself have seen people going to the menu and asking Which one is Word? Which one is Excel?. Gnome, VLC, Openshot,... obviously are product names, and obviously shouldn't be translated. The same thing goes for LibreOffice; that clearly shouldn't be translated. Writer?, Base?,... I guess most groups decided that they should keep them, but some DID translate those, so: Why do we have this discussion at all?, obviously 'cause it's not clear at all and I understand that Marketing, Translating and Steering should decide about it and tell all translators. I think that's the wise thing to do. On another unrelated matter: Mikel, I suspect you of being pretty new to this game... Really? Come on... So cheap... On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 1:35 AM, Goran Rakic gra...@devbase.net wrote: У пон, 01. 08 2011. у 17:21 +0100, Sérgio Marques пише: Imagine that You are translating Gnome. Do You translate Gnome word for Your language? Or Shotwell, Openshot, VLC, Mplayer and so on... It is not that uncommon, even more if your language is not written in Latin script ;) Sometimes the name can be transcribed or you can ignore official grammar rules and write the name in original script. But if the name is something generic like Disk utility or contain a meaningful word playing, it is popular to translate it. Microsoft is translating application names like Paint and Notepad. For marketing reasons they do not translate Windows, Office or Word. Now, in this case Writer can be a strategic marketing name that should not be translated for any costs, or you can see only LibreOffice as such and do translate funny word play that the program used for writing is called Writer, and the program used for drawing is called Draw. In the past, Sun was against translations of product names. They even requested not to translate generic product names like Report builder or Presentation minimzer. Now if you are a user of localized software not speaking English language, would you prefer Presentation minimizer or a translated name like Умањивач презентације (Serbian)? In the code itself translation of main product names is only partially supported (you can translate entries in configuration panel and some of the messages, but not in the window title bar or a shortcut title). It would be fun to have a patch giving this option, but it is just not worth it for me to dig in. Cheers, Goran Rakic -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Libreoffice products name (writer, cal, base, ...)
On 02/08/11 02:26, Mikel Pascual - Akaita wrote: Why do we have this discussion at all? The product names are part of the branding of the trademark and shouldn't be tampered with. That's the thing. That's why I mentioned the Steering Comittee, and that's why I didn't just translate those. %PRODUCTNAME is just a variable in the source code which is set accordingly to the project which it shall reflect, in this case LibreOffice. If LibreOffice Writer is the product's name, the logical thing is to keep those and hope that they'll become as known as Word, Excel, etc. Right now, they're just not known, and I myself have seen people going to the menu and asking Which one is Word? Which one is Excel?. Yes, but here's where the marketings skills come in, you make them learn this. Let's say by making a text table comparing components with full names and functions. Or like we did here in Norway for OpenOffice.org, pamphlets introducing people to the software. And as part of this, you can re-educate them to use correct terms as spreadsheet and word processor too. They should fair better with the power of this new knowledge we take for granted in the future, making your own life more comfortable as well. Mikel, I suspect you of being pretty new to this game... Really? Come on... So cheap... Well, that was my first hunch reading your e-mail, no offence meant... – Olav -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to l10n+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
