Re: [lace] Lace without a corner
Basically, the lace has to extend beyond each end of each side of the fabric by the amount of the lace's width. That's because the lace on side A sticks out by that much, so the lace on side B must be long enough to get to the outside edge of the lace on side A. Measure the width of the lace. That's "X". Measure the width of the fabric. That's "Y". Each side must have Y + 2X length of lace. Total length of lace is 4 x (Y + 2X). e.g., if fabric is 10" square and lace is 2.5" wide: X = 2.5" Y = 10" each side needs 10 + 2.5 + 2.5 = 15" total needed is 4 x 15 = 60" Actually, you should add a bit for "give" at the corners. Having exactly 4x(Y+2X) will make the outer edge of the lace just barely make it around the hankie. Adding a bit more will allow the outside edge of the lace to ruffle a bit around the corner. Robin P. Los Angeles, California, USA (formerly Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Viv Dewar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Since I've finished the garter in time I'm hoping to make a > handkerchieffor the groom's Mum (What do mothers do at > weddings?!!) and have to > confess that after 7 and a bit years of lace making I haven't ever > joined lace to a piece of fabric. I'd appreciate it if someone could > advise how long to make an edging for a hankie if I'm using a pricking > without corners - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] Oya eureka!
If I had a choice of cottons, 40s and 50s would probably be my first choice, too. Unfortunately, they're not readily available in the Jerusalem area, although Miriam tells me that she's seen some in the Tel Aviv area. So I will stick with the coarser perle 8. But it's not as though I'm trying to make microscopic lilies, after all! I was thinking that a bunch of larger oya would make an interesting brooch. A large carnation that I did in variegated perle 8 turned out quite well, except for the fact that I inadvertently made the decreases on one side of the petals until I realised my mistake. Avital > I've had very good luck with the #40 and #50 "crochet" cottons, like > Flora and those Turkish variegated ones (Altan Basaak, or similar > names). Not that my oya came out lovely, but that's because I'm a > novice and still have a lot of practice to get tension and loop size > uniform. > > Robin P. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Oya eureka!
I finally had a chance to pull my oya/bebilla pieces out. The old colored and finely knotted piece is older cotton and worked on the horse hair. My newer pieces on head scarves are the stiff nylon. The scarves are very loopy and not as "fluid" as the cotton, althought the cotton is stiffer. I never really noticed the thread itself. I had them for the lovely designs! Thanks for inpirint me to get them out! Laura Sandison Lace! in New Mexico, USA - Do you Yahoo!? With a free 1 GB, there's more in store with Yahoo! Mail. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Lace without a corner
I think that Brenda has been talking about gathering round the corners all along, not mitreing, as it's easier and quicker to do neatly. Rochelle, if you think about it, the "bit extra to make sure the lace will go around the corners sitting flat." has to be enough so the "lace goes past the end of the hankie a distance equivalent to the width of the lace, turns 90 degrees, and goes down the next side of the hankie (again a distance equivalent to the width of the lace) before the footside actually reaches the hankie again" exactly as Donna said. Whether you plan to mitre or gather the width of the lace increases the hankie size by twice that width. Jacquie - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Lace without a corner
While I agree with Donna on the explanation of the math, I disagree with the suggestion that the corner is "mitered", but then I could be misunderstanding the term. What I envisioned was four pieces of lace joined (sewn together) at the corner in a mitered fashion, much like a picture frame. This is a personal preference, and I don't mean to be rude to anyone. But when I see a handkerchief with a lace edge and the corners have been joined in a mitered fashion, I immediately think "machine lace". When I've gone to the trouble to make lace by hand, and the trouble or expense of making or finding a handkerchief that is appropriate in size and worthy of being gilded with handmade lace, I certainly don't want to whack my lace into bits and sew it back together - anything I come up with using that approach is entirely unsatisfactory, IMO. But the same math gives you enough to gather the lace at the corner and yes, you DO need to use the width of the lace as your measure, because each side of the handkerchief has to be treated as though that lace around the corner is part of the width of the handkerchief, or the lace will "cup" because the corner has been measured short. The result is a continuous piece of lace which curves gracefully around each corner. Early on in the history of lace, all corners were gathered. But as lace became more and more complex and "showy", the corners became an integral part of the design. So we are fortunate that we can choose to do it either way, and not be slaves to very much outdated fashion!! Clay Clay Blackwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [Original Message] > From: Donna Hrynkiw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Date: 1/30/2006 5:29:13 PM > Subject: Re: [lace] Lace without a corner > > > Brenda Paternoster wrote: > > > Measure the side of the hankie and the width of the lace. You need 4 > > > times the width of the hankie PLUS 8 times the width of the lace - > > > absolute minimum. Round up so that you have an even number or > > > repeats, and preferably a multiple of four. > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 30/01/2006 02:09:37 PM: > > Okay, you lost me on that one. Can you go through the math again slower? > > > It seems like one or the other but why both measurements? > > Ruth > > Let me see if I can tackle this. > > To calculate how much lace you need to edge a handkerchief with mitred > lace at the corners, you need: > > > Measure the side of the hankie and the width of the lace. You need 4 > > > times the width of the hankie > > Most hankies are square (four sides, all the same length). We need four > times the length of one side of the hankie -- one for each side of the > hankie. > > > > PLUS 8 times the width of the lace - > > > absolute minimum. > > When you mitre lace at a corner, the headside of the lace goes past the > end of the hankie a distance equivalent to the width of the lace, turns 90 > degrees, and goes down the next side of the hankie (again a distance > equivalent to the width of the lace) before the footside actually reaches > the hankie again. That's two width-of-the-lace distances for every corner. > Four corners times two widths equals eight widths. > > > > Round up so that you have an even number or > > > repeats > > I'm not sure why an even number of repeats is necessary. Brenda? > > > > and preferably a multiple of four. > > Ideally, each side and corner of the hankie will look exactly like all the > other sides and corners. The best way to do this is have the same number > of repeats on each side or in each corner. Four sides of the hankie means > for every repeat you add on one side should also be added on the other > three sides as well. Four sides = multiples of four repeats. > > Donna in Surrey B.C. Canada > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Inoculatte: To take coffee intravenously when you are running late. > > - > To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: > unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Lace without a corner
I got back to Viv off list but thought I would wade in after all. The simplest way, which may not appeal to everyone I admit, is to have gathered corners, and you only need to make the length of each side, and a bit extra to make sure the lace will go around the corners sitting flat. Just another option from a knitted lace person where we don't have corners on edgings. --- Rochelle Sutherland & Lachlan (7yrs), Duncan (6yrs) and Iain (5yrs) www.houseofhadrian.com.au Do you Yahoo!? Take your Mail with you - get Yahoo! Mail on your mobile http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mweb/index.html - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Lace without a corner
I know I didn't start this discussion, but I want to thank everyone who has replied. Everyone benefits when knowledge is shared :D -- Ruth You don't have to wear a red hat to have an attitude. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Lace without a corner
Once the lace is attached the total width of the hankie is fabric plus two widths of lace. Multiply that by four and you get 4 times the width of the fabric plus 8 times the width of the lace. So if your hankie is, say, 10" x 10" and the lace is 1.5" wide the overall size of the finished article is 13" along each side which means that you will need (13 x 4)" = 52" of lace, minimum. If you make it any shorter (for those measurements) there won't be enough to gather around each corner. Brenda On 30 Jan 2006, at 22:09, Ruth wrote: Okay, you lost me on that one. Can you go through the math again slower? It seems like one or the other but why both measurements? Thanks for sharing your knowledge :D Brenda Paternoster wrote: Hello Viv Measure the side of the hankie and the width of the lace. You need 4 times the width of the hankie PLUS 8 times the width of the lace - absolute minimum. Round up so that you have an even number or repeats, and preferably a multiple of four. Brenda On 30 Jan 2006, at 20:36, Viv Dewar wrote: Dear friends Since I've finished the garter in time I'm hoping to make a handkerchief for the groom's Mum (What do mothers do at weddings?!!) and have to confess that after 7 and a bit years of lace making I haven't ever joined lace to a piece of fabric. I'd appreciate it if someone could advise how long to make an edging for a hankie if I'm using a pricking without corners. I know someone posted this recently and, I'm sorry, I've managed to delete the comments. Thanks Viv In Worcestershire UK Brenda http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ruth You don't have to wear a red hat to have an attitude. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brenda http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Lace without a corner
> Brenda Paternoster wrote: > > Measure the side of the hankie and the width of the lace. You need 4 > > times the width of the hankie PLUS 8 times the width of the lace - > > absolute minimum. Round up so that you have an even number or > > repeats, and preferably a multiple of four. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 30/01/2006 02:09:37 PM: > Okay, you lost me on that one. Can you go through the math again slower? > It seems like one or the other but why both measurements? > Ruth Let me see if I can tackle this. To calculate how much lace you need to edge a handkerchief with mitred lace at the corners, you need: > > Measure the side of the hankie and the width of the lace. You need 4 > > times the width of the hankie Most hankies are square (four sides, all the same length). We need four times the length of one side of the hankie -- one for each side of the hankie. > > PLUS 8 times the width of the lace - > > absolute minimum. When you mitre lace at a corner, the headside of the lace goes past the end of the hankie a distance equivalent to the width of the lace, turns 90 degrees, and goes down the next side of the hankie (again a distance equivalent to the width of the lace) before the footside actually reaches the hankie again. That's two width-of-the-lace distances for every corner. Four corners times two widths equals eight widths. > > Round up so that you have an even number or > > repeats I'm not sure why an even number of repeats is necessary. Brenda? > > and preferably a multiple of four. Ideally, each side and corner of the hankie will look exactly like all the other sides and corners. The best way to do this is have the same number of repeats on each side or in each corner. Four sides of the hankie means for every repeat you add on one side should also be added on the other three sides as well. Four sides = multiples of four repeats. Donna in Surrey B.C. Canada [EMAIL PROTECTED] Inoculatte: To take coffee intravenously when you are running late. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Lace without a corner
Okay, you lost me on that one. Can you go through the math again slower? It seems like one or the other but why both measurements? Thanks for sharing your knowledge :D Brenda Paternoster wrote: Hello Viv Measure the side of the hankie and the width of the lace. You need 4 times the width of the hankie PLUS 8 times the width of the lace - absolute minimum. Round up so that you have an even number or repeats, and preferably a multiple of four. Brenda On 30 Jan 2006, at 20:36, Viv Dewar wrote: Dear friends Since I've finished the garter in time I'm hoping to make a handkerchief for the groom's Mum (What do mothers do at weddings?!!) and have to confess that after 7 and a bit years of lace making I haven't ever joined lace to a piece of fabric. I'd appreciate it if someone could advise how long to make an edging for a hankie if I'm using a pricking without corners. I know someone posted this recently and, I'm sorry, I've managed to delete the comments. Thanks Viv In Worcestershire UK Brenda http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ruth You don't have to wear a red hat to have an attitude. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Lace without a corner
Hello Viv Measure the side of the hankie and the width of the lace. You need 4 times the width of the hankie PLUS 8 times the width of the lace - absolute minimum. Round up so that you have an even number or repeats, and preferably a multiple of four. Brenda On 30 Jan 2006, at 20:36, Viv Dewar wrote: Dear friends Since I've finished the garter in time I'm hoping to make a handkerchief for the groom's Mum (What do mothers do at weddings?!!) and have to confess that after 7 and a bit years of lace making I haven't ever joined lace to a piece of fabric. I'd appreciate it if someone could advise how long to make an edging for a hankie if I'm using a pricking without corners. I know someone posted this recently and, I'm sorry, I've managed to delete the comments. Thanks Viv In Worcestershire UK - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brenda http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Lace without a corner
Dear friends Since I've finished the garter in time I'm hoping to make a handkerchief for the groom's Mum (What do mothers do at weddings?!!) and have to confess that after 7 and a bit years of lace making I haven't ever joined lace to a piece of fabric. I'd appreciate it if someone could advise how long to make an edging for a hankie if I'm using a pricking without corners. I know someone posted this recently and, I'm sorry, I've managed to delete the comments. Thanks Viv In Worcestershire UK - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Garter - Lace finished but big should it be?
Dear friends After a false start Ive completed the lace for the garter for a cousins wedding. I started using a bought pricking that made a really beautiful lace but I thought it looked to wide to make a good garter & I started to panic about finishing it in time for the wedding. The revised design is of my own making I did the design after the NEC lace fair on 4/12/2005, and since Ive made just over a metre in length in the lace. Its joined up with the ends sewn BUT how long do I make the garter? Ive asked the prospective bride to measure how round her thigh is at the relevant point. Ive got some gold elastic to weave through to make the garter & what I need to decide is how much less the elastic length (thigh minus ? cms!) needs to be to give the best balance between comfort (ie not so tight that it digs into the flesh) and security (ie not so loose that it falls down) All comments are welcome Thanks Viv In Worcestershire UK Ps Any suggestions for using a piece of lace about 3½ ins wide and 16ins long in wedding colours (pale cream, blue & gold) will be gratefully received! - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Oya eureka!
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > So I'm not going to use 80 cotton any more for oya. I actually > managed to get better results with cheap polyester sewing thread! > I think I may use perle 8, even though it's quite coarse, because > it comes in so many colours. Or I may unply some embroidery floss > and try making oya with single strands. I've had very good luck with the #40 and #50 "crochet" cottons, like Flora and those Turkish variegated ones (Altan Basaak, or similar names). Not that my oya came out lovely, but that's because I'm a novice and still have a lot of practice to get tension and loop size uniform. Robin P. Los Angeles, California, USA (formerly Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] Oya eureka!
Foam rubber? That is too funny! I'd love to see that photo. Seriously, since they're trying to earn a living by selling oya, using cheap materials makes sense. Nylon thread is cheaper than natural fibers and probably last almost indefinitely. The oya on my scarf are *extremely* sturdy. They could easily withstand frequent laundering. Avital Bev wrote: > I think you are right. I don't have any new oya to prove it, but IIRC > in the article on bebilla in > "In Search of a Curious Mind" (an Interweave Press publication, now > o.o.p.) there is a photo of a scarf trimmed with the traditional > shapes, so from a distance it looks like any other, up close it is > tiny pieces of foam rubber sewn to the edge of the scarf. The article > was written prior to 1990; the comment was that more readily available > materials had taken place of the traditional. I would think that that > hadn't changed over the last decades. My copy is deep in the lace room > library and if I can locate it, will confirm. The articles in the book > were well-documented. > > -- > bye for now > Bev in Sooke BC (on Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada)> - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Oyas - samples made within the last two years.
Oyas - if someone want's to post them, I will be glad to share a scan of several OYA scarves that I received from Turkey in the last two years from my brother. One is with beading. He told me these were newly made, and done with a crochet hook. The thread used is also in the scan and a copy of the wrapper is there also. These are definitely made with 100% nylon. Have a Great Day! Susie Johnson Morris, Illinois [EMAIL PROTECTED] 815-942-3722 [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Notebook.jpg] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Oya eureka!
Regarding: > Finally, I reread the recent PieceWork article on oya and noticed that the > oya in the last picture (the headscarf belonging to Linda Ligon) had a very > 'plastic' look. So that's why I think that these coarse nylon threads are > being used for oya in Turkey. Maybe someone has a few oya at home and can > confirm or deny my guess? > I think you are right. I don't have any new oya to prove it, but IIRC in the article on bebilla in "In Search of a Curious Mind" (an Interweave Press publication, now o.o.p.) there is a photo of a scarf trimmed with the traditional shapes, so from a distance it looks like any other, up close it is tiny pieces of foam rubber sewn to the edge of the scarf. The article was written prior to 1990; the comment was that more readily available materials had taken place of the traditional. I would think that that hadn't changed over the last decades. My copy is deep in the lace room library and if I can locate it, will confirm. The articles in the book were well-documented. -- bye for now Bev in Sooke BC (on Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada) Cdn. floral bobbins www.woodhavenbobbins.com - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] Chocolate party
O Patsy, that sounds good to me. Happy chocolate eating Sue M Harvey Norfolk UK -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Patsy A. Goodman Sent: 30 January 2006 01:11 To: lace@arachne.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; The Social Shuttle Subject: [lace] Chocolate party Hi, Did that subject line get your attention? Today I went to a luncheon for the Queen Mums of the local area of Red Hatters. One of the ladies sitting at my table was telling us about a Chocolate Party that her group was having soon. Since "Lace Makers" all love chocolate, my ears perked up. Any mention of Chocolate always gets my attention. : ) It seems that once a year they hold this party. Every one brings a dish made with chocolate. A cake, cookies, etc. It just has to be Chocolate. This sounded like a lot of fun. The only draw back she said was that some over dosed on Chocolate. This sounded like fun for a special event or an extra get together that you group might have. So I decided to pass it on. Patsy A. Goodman Chula Vista, CA, USA TatPat1, NATA #333 - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Oya eureka!
I guess that should really be "Bibilla eureka" to be consistent, since both words are Greek, but "Oya eureka" sounded better. I wish I could think of something clever to say in Turkish, but my knowledge of Turkish begins with Ataturk and ends with 'teshekerederem." I finally managed to make some respectable diamonds and pyramids. Oya are something I try to do every few years, when the mood strikes. I can't say I'm a beginner, exactly, because I've made a couple Armenian needlelace doilies and can do the knot stitch in my sleep, but it does take more patience to do those itty bitty flowers. I wanted to make a somewhat radical suggestion: don't try using 80 tatting thread (pace Gretchen). I tried several different threads and the DMC size 80 tatting cotton was by far the most difficult to use. It tangled abominably. The thread 'remembers' the tangles and develops kinks in the same places. It's about the right thickness, but that's all. I tried a couple balls of 80 cotton in case one of those balls was unusually twisted. They both tangled a great deal, even with short lengths of thread. They just would not 'lie' properly in the knot. Now that I've been looking at more magazine articles on oya, I'm guessing that they're not using DMC 80 in Turkey. First, DMC products are very expensive in this part of the world. I live in a major city and can find DMC 8 perle cotton and 6-strand embroidery floss fairly easily, but I would really have to hunt for, say, DMC 12 perle cotton. I've seen DMC 80 in only one shop and only for brief periods when someone was giving a hardanger course. It's not at all easy to find (and forget about other thread sizes like 30, 50, 100, etc.!) So I would guess that it's probably not a common item in small Turkish villages. Second, I have a Turkish scarf with oya made of a fairly coarse nylon thread. When I bought it, the store owner claimed that the oya were made of silk. I raised one eyebrow and said, somewhat sarcastically, "Oh really? Would you let me do a burn test?" She was amenable because she had a spool of the thread in her desk. She lit a match, we watched the thread melt into a little plastic bead, and she agreed that it wasn't silk. As if the 'stiff as a board' feel wasn't a clue Third, I saw some Turkish threads in one of our larger craft shops. I wasn't too interested in them at the time because they were clearly nylon (not even polyester), but I recall that the only word I recognized on the label was 'oya.' Hm. I'll have to pick up a couple spools next time I'm there. Finally, I reread the recent PieceWork article on oya and noticed that the oya in the last picture (the headscarf belonging to Linda Ligon) had a very 'plastic' look. So that's why I think that these coarse nylon threads are being used for oya in Turkey. Maybe someone has a few oya at home and can confirm or deny my guess? So I'm not going to use 80 cotton any more for oya. I actually managed to get better results with cheap polyester sewing thread! I think I may use perle 8, even though it's quite coarse, because it comes in so many colours. Or I may unply some embroidery floss and try making oya with single strands. Best wishes, Avital - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Graph paper
Hello Janice! If you click on each of the boxes in turn, I think especially the last one, you can change the way the graph/grid is arranged on the paper. Hope this helps. If not, email the man who owns the site - Jeremy (his email address is on there somewhere, if not, I can find it and let you have it) - and he is very helpful. Hope you manage it OK. Dee - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
