Re: [lace] Lace and maths
Dear spiders, I'm not sure where I fall in this debate but I have a couple of observations to offer. They may be food for thought, or they may deserve to be ignored--I hope the former. I wonder if 'maths' is the right term or not. Just for some context, let me note that I like precision and 'correctness' but I prefer to make floral varieties of lace and have been told by one author and teacher that I am a natural at Binche. I always scored very high on the math section of standardized tests (99th percentile) but have never liked math or felt any good at it. I can add and divide and all that but am much more reliable with a calculator, and I was not any good at calculus. What I am, however, is a software engineer and I love designing and coding software programs. The observations I offer are: 1) there is no addition etc. form of maths in software development. Instead there is logical thinking and being able to analyze the sequence of actions necessary to produce the desired result. This is a type of 'maths' that seems to me necessary to do bobbin lace at all, regardless of the creativity side of it. 2) My second observation is very subjective, but one I have found fascinating. When I do a complicated bit of bobbin lace, it FEELS in my head the same as when I'm doing software design and coding. I get the same positive feeling FROM doing both bobbin lace and software development, yes, but more than that: it feels the same WHEN I'm doing it, like I'm doing basically the same thing. Like I said--subjective! Because of these two observations, I've always thought that people who are good at bobbin lace would make good software engineers, whether they know it or not, and whether they are good at arithmetic or not. This is the other way around from some of the observations that have been made, but related I think. I believe that the same analytical and logical skills are required in both, and also creativity to think of novel and more effective ways to do something. So maybe both 'sides' in this debate are right but talking past each other? Just a suggestion. Nancy from Connecticut, USA, but currently in Bruges, Belgium :-) with an appointment to see some old Binche lace in the museums' collections tomorrow and to photograph lace from a private collection this afternoon :-)) From: Maureen maur...@roger.karoo.co.uk To: alexstillw...@talktalk.net alexstillw...@talktalk.net Cc: Arachne reply lace@arachne.com; Clay Blackwell clayblackw...@comcast.net Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [lace] Lace and maths Hi all As a non mathematical person I feel I must comment from those of us who are mathematically challenged. I like to think I am a reasonable lacemaker, I can draw out patterns on graph paper and use a lace design programme and I teach students how to draw out patterns to help understand the working of lace. But I cannot add up for toffee and some maths completely confuses me. I admit I am better with floral type laces, Bucks, Honiton etc but I don't like to make mistakes and teach accordingly. Please give consideration to non mathematical Lacemakers as well. There is a place for us all. Regards Maureen - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Teaching children
Although I don't agree that you *have to be* a mathematician or scientist etc to be a good lacemaker, I am reasonably confident that a high percentage of those people who are bobbin lacemakers do have those inclinations and this may have been what Alex meant. Many times I have asked around a class what people's work is/was and the three fields that by far out number everything else are the already mentioned maths/science/computer specialities, medical/caring professions and teachers. Both the latter groups probably require at least a confidence with basic maths and science concepts. Myself, I loved geometry at school; it was so obvious how to work out angles and how to do all the clever drawings with only ruler and a pair of compasses. After school I went to art school to study fashion, but worked for years as a dispenser in a pharmacy. For quite a while I worked as a carer. After I did my teacher training with its awful analytical essays, I did Open University science as light relief; it was wonderful to be studying something where there were right and wrong answers. And from 10 years after leaving art school I was making my bobbin lace through all the rest. Just my observations, not meant to inflame or upset anyone. Cheers, Jacquie. Just spent a hot but enjoyable Lace Guild Exec meeting weekend at The Hollies. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Lace and maths
Could I suggest that many lace makers are problem solvers. This would include mathematicians, and many scientists. I love puzzles of any kind but especially logic problems, and when I am making lace, I can see a problem-solving element in the process, even in a simple piece of Torchon. I can also see a connection between this and design - where should I place this element of my design? - whether it is lace, any other textile, or something more solid which requires engineering skills as well. But, as in every other field, not every lace maker is a mathematician or a puzzler, and not every mathematician or puzzler makes lace, though it might give them a head start if they wanted to learn. Kathleen In Berkshire, where it is too hot to make lace at the moment, but I hesitate to complain! - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] abstract learning
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2013 12:54:27 -0700 From: Julie Enevoldsen j.enevold...@wlonk.com Subject: [lace] Teaching lace to children in school Thanks to Lauren, who tipped me off that this discussion was going on! I don't know if my experiences...I'm convinced, although I've not seen research to back this hunch up, that using the hands for fine-motor work develops brain structures that affect more abstract learning --spatial thinking in particular, although I suspect itâs much broader. I suggest you read âDrawing on the right side of the brainâ Betty Edwards ISBN 0-87477-424-1. Do not use the earlier edition and if there is a more recent one use that, and do not miss the preface, in particular the section about âCorporate Training Seminarsâ. This is an absolutely fascinating book. Regarding Maureenâs so called inability in maths. I have known her for years and she has no problems with spatial thinking, she is probably one of those who slipped through the maths teaching net. and Maureen,donât think you can use that excuse next time you give me a knotty problem. Happy lacemaking Alex - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Lace and maths
I don't think it's maths in particular, but we all know that ALL, absolutely ALL women are totally and absolutely logical in their thinking and there's logic to where the threads move next. The majority of lacemakers are women so the men who make lace are obviously demonstrating their feminine side. And before anyone shoots me down, you can't hear the grin in my voice. Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
RE: Re: [lace] Lace and maths
Dear Lynn, et al Thank you for your email.I was not suggesting that there is not a mathematical aspect to making lace, only the following comment is, I think unfair. 'The best lacemakers are computer programmers, maths graduates and architects and anything that develops judgement of space and line is bound to help.' Lyn wrote: There is, I think you will agree, a mathematical aspect to lace. Doesn't mean you have to be a math expert to do it. Your drawing on graph paper, and using a computer program for lace design can be considered mathematical. One learns a lot of things making lace, from the proper winding of bobbins to solving the puzzle of why there is an extra pair where it doesn't belong. I suspect that some of these skills require the same brain functions as math. Especially things like topology, logic. Being able to visualize the flow of threads in a Flanders or Torchon pattern. I think of these as included in math skills. I don't think a lot of people realize that. Einstein's theory of relativity doesn't involve numbers until it is applied. I think. Not sure about that, but I think so. I agree that maths logic helps the lacemaker to work out where the threads go, which part of the pattern to work next etc., but it also takes skill to visualise the lace whilst designing it and although maths and drawing helps with the skill of designing a piece of lace, the designer needs to have the insight to envisage what the lace will look like once made. The skills of drafting out a lace pattern was taught to me fairly early on in my lacemaking life and I teach it to students so that they can understand the direction that the threads should go into. Practice in working lace helps the understanding and also goes a long way to make a good lacemaker. Maureen wrote: As a non mathematical person I feel I must comment from those of us who are mathematically challenged. I like to think I am a reasonable lacemaker, I can draw out patterns on graph paper and use a lace design programme and I teach students how to draw out patterns to help understand the working of lace. But I cannot add up for toffee and some maths completely confuses me. I admit I am better with floral type laces, Bucks, Honiton etc but I don't like to make mistakes and teach accordingly. Please give consideration to non mathematical Lacemakers as well. There is a place for us all. So as someone said later, there is a place for everyone with all level of skill.I just would not like to see someone discouraged and made to feel that they are not good enough because they are not a maths grad, architect or computer programmer and then give up. Although hopefully there is no one on this list who would feel that way. Maureen E Yorks UK - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Teaching children
Hi Spiders, This theme has made me think! I was lucky enough to teach lace at a private school, in the after-school activities, and had so many children we had to have a 'helper' for me! I taught the Textiles class, and when some of the parents, children and staff knew I made lace (I made a treble clef for the music teacher) they were all very vocal in wanting a club - so, the school agreed, even bought several pillows and all the gear, and off we went. I did supply orange juice and biscuits - not chocolate ones! - and I am sure another of the attractions was that we had our own personalised sweat shirts too, which the children were allowed to wear at the club, but not in the school day. It was open to all from seven years old, and I had as many boys as girls, and I loved every second of it. The only thing which did get me extremely tetchy was when parents, guardians or nannies came in to collect children, and said 'Is that all you've done?' Maybe I was lucky, and I do think it is probably easier to start a lace club at a private school, rather than the local education authority school - private schools can be more innovative than the local authority will allow sometimes, but if there are any school fetes and summer events going on in your village/area etc., then offer to take pillows with wip, have-a-go pillows etc., and see what response you get - this is how I started at two local village schools, and they have been very successful indeed. Take care, keep on lacomg, and may your pins never bend! Carol - now in North Norfolk, UK. 'Deliver us, Lord, from every evil, and grant us peace in our day.' - Original Message - From: lynrbai...@desupernet.net lynrbai...@desupernet.net If you have an idea, please share. / walker.b...@gmail.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Lace and maths
Dear Jean Agreed I don't think it's maths in particular, but we all know that ALL, absolutely ALL women are totally and absolutely logical in their thinking and there's logic to where the threads move next. The majority of lacemakers are women so the men who make lace are obviously demonstrating their feminine side. Maureen E Yorks - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Lace and maths
Dear Nancy, You have given a wonderful response. Ability to analyze and logical thinking. I think you are right there. And not limited to the realm of mathematics, but a way to think. Your observation on feeling similarly when you make a computer program and making computer software is compelling. Until we become more familiar with the brain, with new technology, it is the best analysis of the thought processes that can be used in lace making. Except that lace is visual, and computer software design probably is not, although that may not be so, if you see it in your head. I bet problem solving could also be included in the skills which can be developed with bobbin lace. Which involves a lot of analysis. Or maybe problem solving is a combination of other skills. In any event, these skills are valuable for students to learn, and having this information could be very helpful in getting schools to allow lace classes, either on campus or off. And you may be correct that 'math' is not the correct term, especially if it is associated only with those pesky numbers. It is the other things involved in math, and, as you rightly say, other areas as well, that I was looking for, and these are more elusive. And I don't think there really are two sides to this discussion. I am being criticized for something I didn't say, and don't believe. What I was trying to say is that lace making involves mental skills that would be useful to school children, and this could be an argument presented to schools to permit a club or advertising a group. I associate those skills with math, although I use them in the practice of law, and in literary analysis, and my father and daughter use(d) them in engineering. I believe I use these skills in lacemaking. Whether my lace is good or poor is immaterial. Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA Nancy wrote: I wonder if 'maths' is the right term or not. Just for some context, let me note that I like precision and 'correctness' but I prefer to make floral varieties of lace and have been told by one author and teacher that I am a natural at Binche. I always scored very high on the math section of standardized tests (99th percentile) but have never liked math or felt any good at it. I can add and divide and all that but am much more reliable with a calculator, and I was not any good at calculus. What I am, however, is a software engineer and I love designing and coding software programs. The observations I offer are: 1) there is no addition etc. form of maths in software development. Instead there is logical thinking and being able to analyze the sequence of actions necessary to produce the desired result. This is a type of 'maths' that seems to me necessary to do bobbin lace at all, regardless of the creativity side of it. 2) My second observation is very subjective, but one I have found fascinating. When I do a complicated bit of bobbin lace, it FEELS in my head the same as when I'm doing software design and coding. I get the same positive feeling FROM doing both bobbin lace and software development, yes, but more than that: it feels the same WHEN I'm doing it, like I'm doing basically the same thing. Like I said--subjective! Because of these two observations, I've always thought that people who are good at bobbin lace would make good software engineers, whether they know it or not, and whether they are good at arithmetic or not. This is the other way around from some of the observations that have been made, but related I think. I believe that the same analytical and logical skills are required in both, and also creativity to think of novel and more effective ways to do something. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Teaching children
Hi Clay, Anna and other Arachnids, Most people have not reacted to this as it was not suggested that mathematicians or physicists make better lacemakers. The suggestion was that an argument that lacemaking MIGHT aid the development of mathematic/physics thinking as well as the artistic side in order to persuade schools to accept lace classes for the youngsters or even just an A4 poster to announce a children's group. It was also pointed out that it aided the development of precision movements which many children sadly lack these days. I am so sorry that the suggestions made by people to help persuade schools to open the doors have been misunderstood. Joepie in sunny Sussex, UK -Original Message- From: Clay Blackwell Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 1:57 AM To: Anna Binnie Cc: alexstillw...@talktalk.net ; Arachne reply ; Lyn Bailey Subject: Re: [lace] Teaching children Thanks, Anna!! I appreciate another voice who understands what I have said!! Generalities just don't apply to those who are skilled at making lace! Clay On 7/7/2013 8:03 PM, Anna Binnie wrote: On 7/07/13 11:13 PM, Clay Blackwell wrote: I am astonished that no one has challenged the notion that people with superior math/science/computer programming skills make the best lacemakers!! I've just logged on and yes I was totally affronted with that statement too. Let me put it in perspective I hold a PhD in Physics and I have taught physics for the last 20+ year to adults at university and children in high school. Good lacemakers are people who are naturally good at lacemaking REGARDLESS of other skills. One of the best lacemakers I know (her work is in the Powerhouse museum) is not mathematically great BUT she is trained in textiles and had spent her working life as a costume designer. I'm a good lacemaker BUT not the best. As an educator I hate cover all statements about ability in one area and success in another. Anna from a cold Sydney - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Teaching children
On Jul 7, 2013, at 8:00 PM, lynrbai...@desupernet.net wrote: What skills does lacemaking develop that will benefit school age children? If you have an idea, please share. Off the top of my head: concentration, following instructions, both written and oral, hand-eye coordination, small motor skills. My lace teacher used to tell students that follow the dots pictures were learning experiences leading to following the numbered sequence for working a piece of lace. Cynthia - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Math vs arithmetic
It was my brother the mathematician who pointed out that math is one thing, calculation another. So those who consider themselves mathematically challenged may only suffer from problems with numbers, and in my case I am convinced that this started for me in first or second grade with poor teaching in arithmetic class. However, I am musical, love to solve problems, tend toward logical thinking--in effect, with the same family genetics as that brother of mine. I grasp at finding the poetry and music in mathematics, which he has spent his life knowing. As for boys and lacemaking, my experience is that they take to it more readily than do girls, at first anyway. There are lots of reasons for that, but among them might be their immediately logical way of thinking and their ability to focus more single-mindedly. (Generalizing as usual, my besetting sin...) I am always interested when demonstrating at lace events to see that a women might look and comment and pass on by, while a man will often stand there quietly observing, nod his head, and say Yes, that makes sense before going on his way. This discussion has gone on for a while, which shows how much we are trying to understand why we make lace. It is for me the most interesting and challenging of the textile crafts. Tess (tess1...@aol.com) who awoke this morning at thunder and rain, breaking the terrible heat of the last week or more. We in Maine USA are not used to this and hope it won't come back. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] The difference between boys and girls in crafts
Tess's comments on the differences between boys and girls in making lace, and the differences between men and women watching lace being made prompt me to relate my experiences when demonstrating spinning. If a boy is interested, he wants to know first how the wheel works. Some boys work it out for themselves, others ask. Then they may or may not want to have a go. Girls usually want to know what the yarn can be used for, where I get the wool from to spin. Then they often want to have a go. Returning to lace - I once demonstrated lace making at my niece's junior school. One boy was really keen to have a go. His teacher was not far away, and was obviously keeping an eye on him. I can't remember what piece of lace was on my practice pillow, but he sat down, listened, learned and made lace! It was an immediate feeling for process. Some time later, we had to persuade him that perhaps someone else would like to have a go, and reluctantly he left. His teacher came to me and said that the boy was her most difficult pupil, and she had never known him either to sit still for so long, or to be quiet for so long. Unfortunately I didn't live close enough to pursue the lesson, but I hope that his teacher did pick up on what helped that boy to concentrate on learning - I feel sure she did. Kathleen - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Math vs arithmetic
As usual, I am behind, but I want to show you my point of view. I think I am partly mathematical/scientific and partly artistic. I liked math. in school but I liked music (which has lots of mathematical elements) and art and handicrafts as well. It was a big problem to decide which what I wanted earn my living. By the way the scientific won. Math often helped me with my lace design and the logical of the rules in bobbin lace fascinated me from the beginning on. And I had several times the possibility to teach children. My experience showed that each child was different. Often, when they were alone with (I have a group mother and child) me they behave totally differently. Boys were mostly more courageous then girls, but not all and not always. Lots of them like bobbin lace making a certain time and than forgot all about. Shortly said there isn't THE rule, they are individuals all of them and it depends a lot how they grew up. I am afraid to be contradictory with the meaning ALL women have a logical mind. But women often think in another way on daily problems and try to solve problems more practical as men often do. But this is a subject we could discuss ages. Sunny greetings from Hamburg in Germany, where at least the summer has arrived. And here it could be it lasted no longer than a few days Ilske - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
RE: [lace] Math vs arithmetic
Tess wrote: As for boys and lacemaking, my experience is that they take to it more readily than do girls, at first anyway. There are lots of reasons for that, but among them might be their immediately logical way of thinking and their ability to focus more single-mindedly. While I was working with a team of IT people, I took in a piece of torchon (a bookmark, I think), to show. All the women admired how pretty it was, but one of the men said It's like plaiting - only more so - I used to plait my sister's hair! He had seen through to the process, where the women had only seen the finished article. So although we were all IT-minded, there was a difference between the sexes. Interesting. Margery. margerybu...@o2.co.uk in North Herts, UK - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Math vs arithmetic
This thread of discussion about differences between the sexes has some truth to it IMHO, but it's also very important to remember that these are generalizations. There is a lot of variation among both men and women, with a great amount of overlap in aptitudes and inclinations. Margery's observation is interesting, but that's a really small sample size from which to draw any conclusions. Nancy Connecticut, USA From: Margery Allcock margerybu...@o2.co.uk To: 'Lace Arachne' lace@arachne.com Sent: Monday, July 8, 2013 10:01 AM Subject: RE: [lace] Math vs arithmetic Tess wrote: As for boys and lacemaking, my experience is that they take to it more readily than do girls, at first anyway. There are lots of reasons for that, but among them might be their immediately logical way of thinking and their ability to focus more single-mindedly. While I was working with a team of IT people, I took in a piece of torchon (a bookmark, I think), to show. All the women admired how pretty it was, but one of the men said It's like plaiting - only more so - I used to plait my sister's hair! He had seen through to the process, where the women had only seen the finished article. So although we were all IT-minded, there was a difference between the sexes. Interesting. Margery. margerybu...@o2.co.uk in North Herts, UK - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Lace and maths
I think many people are concentrating on just the bobbin laces here, when they talk about lacemakers being good at maths or spatial reasoning or whatever. Because, as a needle lace maker, I'm not having to use maths so much. Even when I design my own piece, instead of trying to recreate a 1500s pattern, it's more make the cartoon, couch down the lines, and fill in the spaces with whatever looks good (or is what I can see they did from the blurry pictures I have). Yes, there is *some* maths. But for me it's more how big is this cuff's grid, how big should the grid lines be for this to look good, what kind of detail can I put in with a 35/2 thread vs a 90/2 thread. Maybe it's because I'm so bad at maths, I do a lot of experimenting first. I know there is math for knitting and crochet, but again, from what I recall from when I knitted or crochet mumblemany years ago, not a lot. And as to the spatial thing -- I'm TERRIBLE at it. I have a friend and sewing mentor that can draft out her own patterns, lay them down on checked fabric, and have it all come together perfectly (all the lines and squares meet up). I, on the other hand, need an already made pattern, and need a fabric that has no geometric designs or nap. Then I *might* be able to make something I'm not ashamed to wear! Bronwen, in sunny Colorado Springs, where the temperature is expected to get into the 90s Fahrenheit, or mid 30s Celsius On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 2:36 AM, Kathleen Harris ec...@cix.co.uk wrote: But, as in every other field, not every lace maker is a mathematician or a puzzler, and not every mathematician or puzzler makes lace, though it might give them a head start if they wanted to learn. Kathleen -- Out of clutter, find Simplicity. From discord, find Harmony. In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity. - Albert Einstein - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Lace and Maths
This discussion has been very interesting, however for those of us who came to lace in the middle '70s there were not many 'textbooks' around, certainly in English. My introduction to lace was a Council evening class with Tordis Berndt as our tutor -20+ of us in September 1976.. The only literature/books available were the series from the Lace Guild, Magaret Maidment from approx. 1910. and a few other booklets. Tordis also had her university notes , 2 Swedish booklets which the number of bobbins required , photos etc. but no prickings. I think the need to work these out onto graph paper , whether one was maths inclined or not did not come into it, it had to be done.But, one learnt how important it was to be able to follow the thread pairs through the design. This then leads one to the use of colours for different stitches before the international colour code came into being. Certainly I have found those 2 early years as having laid a good foundation for the years ahead.It has also probably helped when one passed on to designing, not just in geometric but in the 'free' laces so many of us now do. Sheila in Sawbo, who's head is spinning round. with Murray's win and the good weather. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Teaching children
Hello everybody, It would be lovely if children could have an afternoon to get to know lacemaking. Unfortunately in the UK and I wouldn#x27;t be surprised in a lot of other countries, all adults working with or teaching children need to be CBR checked. This means the person in question has to be checked if they have a criminal record. As you can understand, this is a lot of paperwork and extra cost for the school. So don#x27;t be to harsh on the schools. Also parents nowadays expect all adults, who work with children in after school activities or clubs, to be CBR checked as well. Apart from that, the school curriculum doesn#x27;t leave much room for the schools to do extra bits. For example,my daughter will do her GCSE history next year, it will only cover 1900 till today. So no chance to get a question on the lace industry. This sounds very pessimistic. But when I look at the lace clubs I go to, there is no reason for pessimism. Every year I see new faces and they are not all past their retirement age. Joke Sinclair - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Teaching children/teaching all ages
Hello Joke and everyone Your comment says it for me, I notice this also at lace days and other lace get-togethers: ...But when I look at the lace clubs I go to, there is no reason for pessimism. Every year I see new faces ... -- Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Carnival of the Animals
Hello Elizabeth and everyone I have a few thoughts to share about the mysterious lace. I had a conversation with a couple of lace friends not on the lace list. The piece puts us in mind of a dresser-scarf of the Arts Crafts era. One of us recalls seeing a photo of lace from either Ceylon or India with animals, and in her collection, owns a hanky with an edging featuring elephants (likely machine-made and likely not from western sources). Another clue about an Asian source, fine embroidery work was exported to Europe for christening gowns at the end of the 19th C. - mainly from India. Side notes: The embroidery on this resembles some found on the modern reproductions from China currently being sold to unwary tourists... La Dentelle published a series of animal laces in the '90's issues and they are quite whimsical, and the mystery lace brought to mind those in La Dentelle. We wish we could turn up some documentation readily. Only have opinions so far. We think it is Asian made, for export maybe, or to sell to the colonials during the British Raj? The elephants, plus the combination of techniques suggest somewhere on the subcontinent as a source (however, just as readily, it could be a textile made in China by commission from an outside source). The divider-shape could be the Greek symbol pi or just an attractively composed framing element, as part of the overall design? We might be all wet with these thoughts, but it has been fun to speculate. The closeup detail of each photo is amazing. Thank you for posting this item, and we'll hope something turns up to solve the mystery! On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 7:50 PM, Elizabeth Kurella ekure...@gmail.comwrote: Calling out to lacemakers and collectors around the world -- where might this charming but tattered piece have been made? Come visit www.LaceCurator.info and help solve the mystery. -- Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Lace and Maths - Sheila Brown's Contributions to Lace
Before the 20th century few lacemakers anywhere were educated, and most could not even read. However, they were able to produce laces we admire and avidly collect today. Please consider how little was available to anyone who wanted to learn about lace after the two 20th C. World Wars. No matter which nation. We have had some powerful role models, and it is doubtful they thought math and related school subjects were especially important to their lacemaking success. As to her comments (below my signature), Sheila Brown had, by 1990, written a 96-page hardback book published by Batsford - Free Lace Patterns. Lace Guild libraries will have it. Further, between 2000 and 2002 Sheila and her late husband Alan Brown published reprints of four 19th C. government surveys by Alan Cole, reporting on the conditions under which lacemakers worked in England and Ireland. Making these easily available provided numerous lace book authors with verifiable documentation of a period in history when lacemaking was most important to the survival of many people. (Alan Cole was the youngest son of Sir Henry Cole, credited with being the creator of the Victoria and Albert Museum. Search Henry Cole in Arachne archives for more information.) Thank you for your devotion to lace, Sheila! Jeri Ames in Maine USA Lace and Embroidery Resource Center In a message dated 7/8/2013 This discussion has been very interesting, however for those of us who came to lace in the middle '70s there were not many 'textbooks' around, certainly in English. My introduction to lace was a Council evening class with Tordis Berndt as our tutor - 20+ of us, in September 1976.. The only literature/books available were the series from the Lace Guild, Margaret Maidment from approx. 1910, and a few other booklets. Tordis also had her university notes , 2 Swedish booklets with the number of bobbins required, photos etc. but no prickings. I think the need to work these out onto graph paper, whether one was maths inclined or not did not come into it, it had to be done. But, one learnt how important it was to be able to follow the thread pairs through the design. This then leads one to the use of colours for different stitches before the international colour code came into being. Certainly I have found those 2 early years as having laid a good foundation for the years ahead. It has also probably helped when one passed on to designing, not just in geometric but in the 'free' laces so many of us now do. Sheila - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] winner of the highest-priced used book award
Apropos of recent discussions about the price of used lace books, I just saw on amazon.com's used book list for Pamela Nottingham's The Technique of Bucks Point Lace a used copy offered for $3,968.00 ! (http://tinyurl.com/nymvcqt) It's gotta be a typo, but it's the winner for now. Nancy Connecticut, USA - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Math vs arithmetic
I was once asked why I could sight read a piece of music but couldn't remember it to play from memory and I said I didn't know. However my music teacher said that it was probably because I matched the pattern of the notes on the stave to a memory of how my hands felt when I played. Whereas a person playing from memory matched the memory to the how their hands felt. She always contended that those who sight read should find knitting and crochet easier because it was a pattern of movements linked to a pattern whilst those who played from memory might find drawing easier because they felt the thing they wanted to draw as a movement. I didn't believe this until I started to make lace and then, earlier this year I was taught properly to crochet and pertang! It seemed trued. With two a levels in maths I suppose I bad no challenges in either in numbers or calculations so for me, as has been said beforehand , I see the pattern in the pricking and feel the direction and the movement needed to make it. When I make lace the Aussie has mentioned that I move the bobbins fast but very rhythmically, almost as though I was tapping out a tune. Kind Regards Liz Baker On 8 Jul 2013, at 14:44, Tess Parrish tess1...@aol.com wrote: It was my brother the mathematician who pointed out that math is one thing, calculation another. So those who consider themselves mathematically challenged may only suffer from problems with numbers, and in my case I am convinced that this started for me in first or second grade with poor teaching in arithmetic class. However, I am musical, love to solve problems, tend toward logical thinking--in effect, with the same family genetics as that brother of mine. I grasp at finding the poetry and music in mathematics, which he has spent his life knowing. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] winner of the highest-priced used book award
Nancy wrote: Apropos of recent discussions about the price of used lace books, I just saw on amazon.com's used book list for Pamela Nottingham's The Technique of Bucks Point Lace a used copy offered for $3,968.00 ! (http://tinyurl.com/nymvcqt) If you look at that seller's litings - she has some quite reasonably priced lace books and several others in the almost $4K bracket. Malvary in Ottawa, where it is a little cooler and less humid today, but not a lot. We were in the 40c+ range of humidex at the end of last week and over the weekend. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Math vs arithmetic
Dear Ilske, et al, All children are different, yet boys are often more like other boys than they are like girls. If we recognize that each child is an individual, it helps. But generalities can also help. The skills we can say lacemaking helps with are often those encouraged more in boys than girls, yet these are valuable skills. Analysis and problem solving in particular are developed with boys in their adventures, making wooden racing cars, going hunting, building things. In my experience, these are not things girls tend to do, although there are always exceptions. If lacemaking can teach children, which includes girls, these skills, they will be way ahead as they prepare for life. Lace is an attraction to girls because it is pretty and involves thread, often thought by girls to be their domain. If we can assist them to develop these valuable skills, wow. Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA, where the rain made the air conditioning unnecessary. Ilske wrote: I think I am partly mathematical/scientific and partly artistic. I liked math. in school but I liked music (which has lots of mathematical elements) and art and handicrafts as well. It was a big problem to decide which what I wanted earn my living. By the way the scientific won. Math often helped me with my lace design and the logical of the rules in bobbin lace fascinated me from the beginning on. My experience showed that each child was different. Often, when they were alone with me they behave totally differently. Boys were mostly more courageous then girls, but not all and not always. Lots of them like bobbin lace making for a time and then forgot all about. Shortly said there isn't THE rule, they are individuals all of them and it depends a lot how they grew up. My email sends out an automatic message. Arachne members, please ignore it. I read your emails. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Teaching children
Dear Joke, I apologize, but your posting struck me the wrong way. I'm sitting here with tears of laughter running down my face, thinking, Rats, my extensive criminal convictions will not let me teach lace to children... I know it's serious, and probably expensive, but really, lacemakers going to schools to prey on young children? The thought is such an absurdity. I suppose there could be a predator out there, lurking amongst us lacemakers, but Please enjoy the joke with me. Lyn from Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA, who had the charges for failing to show her automobile insurance to the cop withdrawn today. Honestly. Joke wrote: It would be lovely if children could have an afternoon to get to know lacemaking. Unfortunately in the UK and I wouldn#x27;t be surprised in a lot of other countries, all adults working with or teaching children need to be CBR checked. This means the person in question has to be checked if they have a criminal record. As you can understand, this is a lot of paperwork and extra cost for the school. So don#x27;t be to harsh on the schools. Also parents nowadays expect all adults, who work with children in after school activities or clubs, to be CBR checked as well. My email sends out an automatic message. Arachne members, please ignore it. I read your emails. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Skills to tout to get them to let you teach lace to children recap
These are the articulable skills mentioned in this discussion. More are welcome, but this is what we have, so far: eye hand coordination small motor skills concentration following directions, oral and written problem solving analytical thinking logic This is an impressive array, and does not include those special situations for the difficult boy, and uses in special ed, for autism and possibly Asperger's. Some schools, of course, will never be receptive, but some will, the smaller schools where everyone knows you, be it private or public or parochial. Of course, there is no guarantee that the child will develop these skills, but it is a way to get them into those sweet little heads. Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA, where it's time for an evening on the deck, birds singing, weather friendly, feet up. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Teaching children
Hello Lyn, and everyone I volunteer with an out-reach program, visiting schools. As a matter of course, we agreed to a criminal records check at the onset of volunteering for the program. It probably helps that my program is sponsored by a creditable arts institution that can cover the expense of the records check. Make of that what you will, but that's the way it's done. To initiate a lacemaking club in a public school isn't as easy as it might sound, is it :( On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 3:20 PM, lynrbai...@desupernet.net wrote: Dear Joke, I apologize, but your posting struck me the wrong way. .. Joke wrote: Also parents nowadays expect all adults, who work with children in after school activities or clubs, to be CBR checked as well. -- Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Teaching children
Joke wrote: Also parents nowadays expect all adults, who work with children in after school activities or clubs, to be CBR checked as well. In Australia anyone who works with children needs to get a police check done. It is standard for teachers, ancillary staff, volunteers and sports coaches even parent coaches. I laughed when my then 20 year old son needed police clearance to coach his sister's basketball team (the girls were all 17 or 18). It is no big deal since the schools/ departments of education have to do it. It has had an impact on our local lacemakers who teach children lacemaking during holidays and after school since we have to supply a list of all volunteers if we are visiting a local school, however some of our country groups have discussed the issue with the local police who have given them general guild lines to work with. Anna from a cold Sydney - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] when and where to teach children lace
Hi all Ive enjoyed the conversation here are a few hints learnt from experience If you want to teach lacemaking but your local school is not open to it, try the local library. Some local libraries are happy to host a 1 to 2 hour session in one of their reading rooms. Sometimes they will allow you to use it for free as part of their normal activities. Youth clubs, church groups and other types of organisations that have a hall or suitable venue are worth an approach. Work as a group, teaching children can be exhausting and you need at least 2 people present just in case. Make sure you have the parents' mobile numbers as well. Try organising lace classes during school holidays but not the long summer one. If the children are off school for a week or 2 parents are less likely to go away and may welcome an hour or 2 off. Do not offer all day classes since you could be used as a cheap child care alternative. My group provided all the materials to the children and only charged a nominal amount. The pillows and bobbins stayed at the venue. This was more inviting for cash strapped parents. We held our classes during the holidays after Easter (our Autumn). We invited parents or carers to join the children for the classes. One of the grandmothers has joined our Lace group and is learning to help her grand daughter. I hope this helps Good luck Anna from a cold Sydney - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Carnival of the Animals
Just a wild brainstorm/guess here. Bev mentions: Another clue about an Asian source, fine embroidery work was exported to Europe for christening gowns at the end of the 19th C. - mainly from India. ...and I'm wondering, given your proximity to Chicago (I realize the owner was also a traveler), could this have been something produced for or shown at the Columbian Exposition of 1893? I'll admit to having expositions on the brain--I've been listening to Clara and Mr. Tiffany about Clara Driscoll, the designer of Tiffany's famous lamps. Lorraine Weiss Albany, NY (where it finally stopped raining long enough for me to mow the lawn today and now it's cooled down to 82F) - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Seventeenth-Century Women's Dress Patterns - Book Two
I have just received my copy, and gone through to look at the lace. I have to say that I am surprised the lace patterns are once again done hastily. When I opened to page 24-25 I was completely titillated, not believing what I saw in the x-ray. It is common knowledge amongst lacemakers lace was/is recycled. It is not unusual to find lace of this period which has been recycled onto a new textile or is standing solo after having been removed. However, this was the first time I had seen an x-ray of an old period garment with lace tidbits left inside. It was beyond exciting. When I was able to stop looking at it I turned to the next page fully expecting a reconstruction of the lace. The style and motif is so typical of the Le Pompe laces, I was sure there had to be a reconstruction. The xray is good enough to see the single thread picots and the design, and there is enough written about this style to make a reasonable reconstruction. Had there been any areas of assumption or guesswork made, they could have noted them appropriately. It is exceedingly disappointing to see every other aspect of this garment made with such detail, only to have the lace left out completely. Insult was added to injury, for me, when I saw the lace they used on the reconstruction. The end result looks nothing like it would have with even a lace made from a Le Pompe wood cut in silver. 119 having the next lace, I did find the drawing useful, although again the lace is not reconstructed. Lastly are the passaments used on the pair of green shoes beginning on page 146. I took a first glance through, figuring all were bobbin lace. When I flipped back to study the details of the straight laces, I immediately noticed there was only one weaver running through. I was glad to see that they did not label these as bobbin lace, although at first glance it seemed as though they were lumping all 3 together. I have not yet had the time to scrutinize the one bobbin lace which had a pricking included. There are several ways to make these kronle, and I will be checking to see the diagram accurately reflects the thread movements in the surviving lace. Kim On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 3:23 PM, jeria...@aol.com wrote: Seventeenth-Century Women's Dress Patterns - Book Two Edited by Susan North and Jenny Tiramani VA Publishing, 2012 Hardback of 160 pages, ISBN 978-1-851-77685-6 In 2011, Arachne correspondence was generated by Book One of this series. Book Two is a continuation of studies of costumes and accessories in the VA Museum. It will appeal to historians, re-enactors, costumers, and conservators. You have seen portraits of this period in the current Queen's Gallery exhibit/book In Fine Style, and may want to learn more. Many have enjoyed the earlier research and pattern books produced by the late Janet Arnold, and you will realize this research builds on the foundation she established. Some of the garments and accessories featured in this book are ones she studied in the late 20th Century. Below is a sampling. A new 16-page analysis of a 1610-20 mulberry-colored Italian silk velvet gown from the Isham family includes a reconstruction of fabric parts that were cut away from the gown and recycled centuries ago. An explanation of detailed photos of small yellow silk threads scattered over the shoulders and down the fronts says they were used to attach two widths of spangled silver bobbin laces. It all becomes clear when the page is turned and life-size X-ray images clearly show remnants of metal laces inside seams that had been enclosed with some kind of applied decoration. 18 pages are devoted to 1660-80 salmon pink watered-silk stays thought to be Dutch, as shown in portrait details of two Dutch genre paintings of the period. The 295 thin strips of baleen (whale bone) stays can be seen in X-rays. A separate stomacher from the same materials is stiffened with 59 more strips of baleen, plus 7 horizontal strips across the top. Laced in the front, instructions are given for tying the knot used at the top of the stays. 16 pages are devoted to a 1595-1615 blue linen supporter for a starched band (collar). The linen covered a cardboard shape, reinforced with metal.. This style of prop rested on the shoulders. Photos show how this was attached at the back of a gown. Wire used to reinforce the shape can be seen in X-rays. Another type of prop was called a picadil. The 1600-15 one shown is from the Isham collection, and is covered with ivory silk satin. As with all items, relevant art is shown, color photography is used, and X-rays shown, in addition to many drawings to illustrate construction details and pattern layouts. Three pairs of 17th C. shoes have been selected for special attention of reconstruction experts. A green velvet pair of chopines are lavishly d ecorated with gathered gold metal bobbin lace. *Earlier this
[lace] Lace Maths
I'm with you, Maureen. I was never good at maths - I'm still not!! But I Can make lace!!! I think some of us have the Craft ability, and do well at a variety of crafts - using our hands as well as our brains, while some people are clever with their brains, but don't work with their hands at all. If you look back at History, (and I am not too bad with that subject!!) Very few people went to school,. They could add and subtract, probably, very well, as they were skills needed for every day living, but further maths was never on the horizon, even. Most worked with their hands - lacemakers among them, but they were very creative, and solved problems amazingly well - otherwise we would still be making Le Pompe sort of lace, - not the complex laces we create (or try to!) today. I think having formal maths etc is really not much of a help. Those of us not good at maths can still make beaut lace, - and solve any problems that present themselves. Regards from Liz in Melbourne, Oz - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
