[lace] What is an antique in the U.S.

[Jean Nathan]

I'm going by the American editions of the Antiques Road Show that have been
shown in the UK, which of course is the only way we can judge what's
considered an antique in the US. Obviously the "experts" on that programme
have been lax in their definition of an antique.

Jean Nathan in Poole, Dorset, UK

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Re: [lace] Research for Future Lace Scholars

[Laurie Waters]

Since there's been a little discussion on the LaceNews Ebay Alerts recently
I thought I'd make a few remarks, because there's a lot more to this than
you might realize.

By the way, if you follow LaceNews and only get posts by email, please
realize that everything is also on the website http://lacenews.net.  Shortly
after the auction is over I add the sale price and number of bidders to each
Ebay Alert item.  And I did correct the typo in date that Jeri mentioned, on
the website.

 

The Ebay Alerts have been a part of LaceNews since the beginning in late
2010. Basically if there's no other news, no events, no urgent interviews, I
always have this column to fall back on.  The format has developed over
time, and I'm pretty happy with it right now.  Basically I want the reader
to pretend you are going to an auction preview, looking at all the laces to
be put up for sale. What is going through the collector's mind at this
point?  What sort of things are you looking for, what specific aspects of a
lace do you pay attention to if you are a collector?  Condition is obviously
critical, so that's become a more concise specific part of the posts over
time. Collectors tend to be very leery of talking about these things at
large, so I'm taking the complete opposite tack, and talking about the
issues as fully as I can.   And when I do these posts, I think of the lace
and the lacemaker, not the seller.  Which gives the posts a certain
objectivity and unbiasedness that I value very highly.

 

But there's something more going on here, and that is plain and simple
research.  I too have many old catalogs, and more are coming online from
auctions all the time. Plus private sales.  Yes, these could be organized
for lace-specific objectives, if you can overcome copyright laws, etc. But I
think there's something deeper. If you go look at the lace in any museum,
and in many auctions, the collections are generally a result of fairly
biased donors and acceptors. The museum that specializes in local products
do exist, but are rare. Generally museums aim for the very best quality, and
reject a tremendous amount.  Or accept it and sell it off quietly later.
The same is often true for pieces that come up at the formal auction houses
- many are the collections of very discriminating collectors.  

 

However, the web has opened up a whole new way of looking at this.  The Ebay
sellers want to sell lace, regardless of condition or quality.  The most
beat-up fragment of Duchesse is listed as 'Amazingly outstanding example of
handmade Belgian Lace'.  Ebay may just be the most unbiased collection of
lace that exists today. This is important since if you can actually prove
(mathematically) that the database is unbiased, you can assume that it
reflects what was actually manufactured in years past.  Which could lead to
information where original manufacturing records are lacking.  We can also
compare the results to what you see in museums which can lead to suggestions
as to how to improve the collections (although museums don't really like to
be criticized).

 

Since I started the alerts I've kept track not only of the ones I've
reviewed, but about 4 times as many other pieces that didn't make it to the
Alerts.  I  still keep track of these; a total of over 5,900 pieces so far,
with photos, dimensions, form, prices (obviously of interest to appraisers),
where they were sold, number of bidders and a few other things. These are
all going into a FileMaker Pro database which is a good way to enable
analysis of the database.  One the Science & Lace discussion group, some are
advocating for other relational databases like SQL, which is free, but
generally it's a matter of what you are used to.  Already I've come up with
numbers for what is the most common lace type sold on Ebay (Maltese),
followed by Duchesse de Bruxelles, Point de Gaze, Application on Machine net
. I have these divided into about 100 different lace types.   Comparisons
with what few manufacturing and export records exist can  give an indication
if this is a truly unbiased collection,  capable of giving information where
records are lacking.  Museum collections and more formal auctions data could
certainly be added to the database to facilitate comparisons, but this is in
the future.

This isn't the only effort going on along these lines. In England a PhD
thesis is in the works on a this subject.  And the Lace for Study blog
http://www.laceforstudy.org.uk/about/ has also established an extremely
useful database. 

 

I mentioned that I have currently 100 categories of lace, however this badly
needs to be systematized, especially as this data uncovers variations in
various categories.  And that information is already coming through loud and
clear.  A good database is priceless and is where everything starts.

 

_

Laurie Waters
lacen...@gmail.com, lwaters...@comcast.net

  http://lacenews.net

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[lace] What is an Antique in the U.S.

[Jeriames]

In answer to Jean:  We've written about this before, and I'm not going  to 
the government for a definition, because Arachne archives are full of  memos 
on the subject.
 
Every time I've checked, Antiques were defined as being items over 100  
years of age.  Americans come across this when we travel abroad.   We must 
declare all purchases at Customs upon return to the U.S.   We do not pay duty 
(import) taxes on bona fide Antiques and  several other items, such as Books.  
When we shop abroad, we get  documentation from shop keepers for items that 
are not subject to duty  taxes.  We carry these items in suitcases that can 
be easily opened for  inspection.
 
In the really serious high-dollar Antiques world, dealers and  auctioneers 
would be aghast that something newer would be called an  Antique.  They know 
it would be grounds for legal action.  I base  this on regularly attending 
Antiques shows and auctions, and  on reading Antiques Magazine and the 
monthly newspaper Maine Antique Digest  -- both respected for reporting on 
Antique news from around the world,  including the U.K.
 
What is happening is that people who are not licensed or regulated by the  
government are making claims on Ebay and other sites that are not  correct.  
We are getting descriptions of Antique, Vintage,  Collectible, etc. for 
just about anything.  
 
Probably someone is selling 2014 Winter Olympics items from Sochi as  
Antiques, and getting away with it!  That does not mean that the definition  of 
an Antique has changed.
 
Jeri Ames in Maine USA
Lace and Embroidery Resource Center

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[lace] Language translations

[Jeriames]

Language translations can be difficult when the terms used are not  
familiar and grammar is different.  All OIDFA business is conducted in both  
English and French.  Our member, Tess, has been doing translations for the  
OIDFA 
Bulletins for many years.  Sometimes translations are quite  time-consuming 
to make understandable.  Just another example of a valuable  volunteer in 
our lace community.  
 
On the tour of the Alencon Lace Museum -- part of the activities  
associated with OIDFA Caen -- we were rushed out abruptly because no provision  
had 
been made for lace makers from around the world to stay longer, and the  
staff's working hours seemed to be inflexible.  
 
Therefore, there was little time allowed in the book shop.  I was  
delighted to find a booklet that was printed in English and bought several for  
friends.  It was evening when I began to read one.  It was hilarious,  and not 
easy to understand at all.  Back in Maine, I took one to  Tess.  She 
explained that some people do not know how to do  a translation so it can be 
understood.  These people translate  word-for-word.  It does not work this way!
 
Jeri Ames in Maine USA
Lace and Embroidery Resource Center
 
 
 
In a message dated 2/13/2014 3:37:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
nlaffe...@ozemail.com.au writes:

If you  go to http://sochi2014.bosco.ru/en/, scroll through the samples of
art in  the quilt to Vologda lace, there is an hilarious (to me) description
of how  the lace is made.

Noelene in  Cooma
nlaffe...@ozemail.com.au

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RE: [lace] Miss Channer's Mat, newest

[Jean Nathan]

Devon wrote:
> I suppose that in that if Crowood cannot find  the art work for the mat, it
> might be necessary for someone to send them  one of the original unused
> copies if they were to reprint it. >

If they were prepared to make a copy from an unused pricking, I'm sure most
would be happy just to have it printed on paper and not necessarily on buff
card as the original was and prick it themselves. This would make it very
cheap for them to produce.

Jean Nathan in Poole, Dorset, UK

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[lace] Miss Channer's Mat, newest

[Dmt11home]

As a result of our internet discussion, Nigel Bean has  contacted Pat Bury 
and provided the following information:
Ruth Bean has been purchased by 
Crowood Press, Ltd
Ramsbury,
Marlborough,
Wilts SN8 2HR
Tel 01672 520 320
 
_www.crowood.com_ (http://www.crowood.com) 
 
The contact is Ken Hathaway.
They are interested in keeping the titles in print so interest  in Miss 
Channer's mat can be directed to them. 
 
It was very nice of Pat Bury to provide this  information.
 
I suppose that in that if Crowood cannot find  the art work for the mat, it 
might be necessary for someone to send them  one of the original unused 
copies if they were to reprint it. 
 
Devon 

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[lace] Continued: Vologda lace on Sochi quilt

[C Johnson]

Noelene said:
The cat that comes up when you click on the volgoda lace icon is very
familiar.  I have seen it recently, but I can't remember where."
>
It appeared on the Bobbin Lace face book page and we have had quite a bit of
fun with it.
-Susie
Morris, Illinois

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[lace] Gretchen and two relatives, article in Lace 153,

[laceandbits]

Due to a technical glitch, two paragraphs were concealed by one of the 
photographs in Jean Leader's article 'Gretchen and Two Relatives', on pages 26 
and 27 of the latest edition of Lace, meaning that it is confusing to read (not 
surprisingly).  The old fashioned paper cut-and-paste has some benefits!

The full article is now available on our website ( www.laceguild.org ) which 
means that not only members of The Lace Guild can read it, you all can.

I would like to apologise to all of you who spotted the apparent contradictions 
in the text as it was published, and to Jean for spoiling her well researched 
and written article.

Jacquie in Lincolnshire
Wearing my Chairman's hat.

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Re: [lace] Posting to list

[Catherine Barley]

Nothing wrong with this latest message from you Hazel!

Catherine Barley


Catherine Barley Needlelace
www.catherinebarley.com
- Original Messag From: "Hazel Smith" 

Subject: [lace] Posting to list


Now my last post a couple of days ago about crediting designers is showing 
as almost unreadable owing to odd characters and erratic line changes even 
though the original message in my "sent" folder is perfectly OK. 
Presumably that's why no one has commented on what I said - I don't blame 
you. But I don't know what's causing the problem so it looks like it's 
back to lurking for me


Hazel


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[lace] Posting to the list - thanks and apologies

[Hazel Smith]

Hello All

Firstly thanks to all for the encouraging replies and sorry if I sounded a bit 
sulky. My second message looked OK. My e-mail service (Yahoo!)had shown a 
message something about converting to an older version so maybe that's what's 
changed. And some people said even the original one about designers looked OK 
on their machine so maybe you'll hear more from me.

Jane Partridge, I loved your idea of there being a "pecking order" for 
designers and I suspect Jane Read will chuckle over it as well.

Now I'm going to check which designers' work I've used most over the years. My 
guess would be Christine Springett (who I've actually thanked personally before 
now) and the late Joan Kelly (hence my comment about not being able to thank 
some). But there must be others and maybe I should think about Jane's idea of 
the Lace Guild's Facebook page

Back to the lace!

Hazel

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RE: [lace] Posting to list

[Agnes Boddington]

Well Hazel, this message came through ok.
I am not a computer expert, so cannot help with your problem.
Don't lurk again, just keep trying, and maybe find a friend who knows a bit 
about computers to have a look for you.
Agnes Boddington - Elloughton, EYorks UK, where we escaped the recent floods 
too.

Hello all

For many years I only lurked on this list never posted. The reason was there 
used to be some sort of problem with some people's e-mail (HTML or something?) 
that meant their posts came out as gobbledegook and I was afraid mine would be 
like that and people would complain. Then it was announced that something had 
solved this problem so I was confident enough to post the occasional comment.

Now my last post a couple of days ago about crediting designers is showing as 
almost unreadable owing to odd characters and erratic line changes even though 
the original message in my "sent" folder is perfectly OK. Presumably that's why 
no one has commented on what I said - I don't blame you. But I don't know 
what's causing the problem so it looks like it's back to lurking for me

Hazel

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[lace] Posting to list

[Jane Partridge]

Hazel,

You will find on Arachne that you can often post something asking a 
question and people are, for one reason or another, a bit slow or 
reluctant to reply. It can take several days for the message to show up 
on Digest, which might be where the best person to answer reads your 
message. Or it might be that we are all waiting for someone with more 
experience to answer first (in case we make right fools of ourselves!).


This message came through to my machine, which can only cope with plain 
text (and frequently puts in all the strange characters - usually a case 
where keyboards don't match, US keyboards have certain characters, like 
the dollar sign and double quotes, in different places to UK ones, so 
show up somewhat strange). So don't worry, no-one is going to shout you 
down for it, it's far better that you put your thoughts into writing and 
share them with us than keep to yourself - if everyone did that there 
would be nothing on Arachne at all!


The reason I haven't responded to the list is that firstly, I was 
waiting for Jane Read to reply first, I think she is a little further up 
the pecking order (if there is one!) of designers to me, and secondly, 
as Hon Sec of The Lace Guild, with a meeting next weekend, I'm a bit 
snowed under with trying to get the agenda for our meeting sorted, and 
other correspondence dealt with, at the moment!


I've said many, many times on the list that any feedback on design is 
helpful, and it always seems to meet with deaf ears. This is 
particularly so with patterns that go into Lace, despite the editors 
trying to draw out "show and tell" photos. Yet if you put a pattern into 
the Canadian Lacemaker Gazette, and ask for suggestions, quite often the 
result is not just your pattern being printed but a number of 
adaptations are created by the editorial team and it becomes a really 
good article. We don't have that sort of resource at the Guild, 
unfortunately, as our Editor is a single, paid, part time role so has 
little time to 'play' with patterns to that extent. On the other hand, 
if you (or anyone!) have made pieces from patterns published, do share 
photos either by sending them into the magazine (this applies to any 
organisation, not just The Lace Guild) or, in our case, by sharing them 
on the Guild's Facebook page.


In message 
<1392379409.66195.yahoomailba...@web162001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, Hazel 
Smith  writes

Hello all

For many years I only lurked on this list never posted. The reason was 
there used to be some sort of problem with some people's e-mail (HTML 
or something?) that meant their posts came out as gobbledegook and I 
was afraid mine would be like that and people would complain. Then it 
was announced that something had solved this problem so I was confident 
enough to post the occasional comment.


Now my last post a couple of days ago about crediting designers is 
showing as almost unreadable owing to odd characters and erratic line 
changes even though the original message in my "sent" folder is 
perfectly OK. Presumably that's why no one has commented on what I said 
- I don't blame you. But I don't know what's causing the problem so it 
looks like it's back to lurking for me


Hazel

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--
Jane Partridge

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Re: [lace] Posting to list

[Susie Rose]

Hello to One and All!

It's nothing that you've done Hazel.  The way that I
understand it is the programming of the hosting site doesn't play nice with
the program that is being used to write the letter.  I get the same thing with
some of my groups.  I still post anyway.  I will go directly to the group site
the post from there.

 
Hugs,
 
Susie Rose   


My stores:
http://www.zibbet.com/SusieRoseDesigns
http://www.zibbet.com/MountainRoseFoods
http://SusieRose.Blujay.com

Blog:  http://fiberismybag.wordpress.com

 From: Hazel Smith

To: arachne Lace  
Sent:
Friday, February 14, 2014 4:03 AM
Subject: [lace] Posting to list
 

Hello all
For many years I only lurked on this list never posted. The reason was there
used to be some sort of problem with some people's e-mail (HTML or something?)
that meant their posts came out as gobbledegook and I was afraid mine would be
like that and people would complain. Then it was announced that something had
solved this problem so I was confident enough to post the occasional comment.
Now my last post a couple of days ago about crediting designers is showing as
almost unreadable owing to odd characters and erratic line changes even though
the original message in my "sent" folder is perfectly OK. Presumably that's
why no one has commented on what I said - I don't blame you. But I don't know
what's causing the problem so it looks like it's back to lurking for me
Hazel

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[lace] Posting to list

[Hazel Smith]

Hello all

For many years I only lurked on this list never posted. The reason was there 
used to be some sort of problem with some people's e-mail (HTML or something?) 
that meant their posts came out as gobbledegook and I was afraid mine would be 
like that and people would complain. Then it was announced that something had 
solved this problem so I was confident enough to post the occasional comment.

Now my last post a couple of days ago about crediting designers is showing as 
almost unreadable owing to odd characters and erratic line changes even though 
the original message in my "sent" folder is perfectly OK. Presumably that's why 
no one has commented on what I said - I don't blame you. But I don't know 
what's causing the problem so it looks like it's back to lurking for me

Hazel

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[lace] Just when you thought you'd heard the last word on 'vintage lace'...

[Gray, Alison J]

Hi All

Just when I thought we'd heard the last about the word 'vintage' applied to
lace I saw the following advert headed 'vintage finds - lace doillies' in our
university small ads emails yesterday afternoon:

Hand crafted Lace doilies  in a dark Linen colour  for craft or display
approx 81 Large, 3 medium and 1 small  £4 the lot

There was a picture, but it was so small that you couldn't see anything
clearly except that they are round and appear to have individual round motifs
as a border.  I thought that they were, perhaps, crochet and I emailed the
seller to ask what technique they were done in. This is the reply that I got:

Not sure really but guess lace making rather than crochet because they are
fine thread rather than crochet cotton/wool, I did email back and point out
that there are a number of different sorts of hand made lace.

Now I'm really curious as to what she's selling, she obviously knows nothing
about lace.  She's not at work until Monday, and I hope she'll let me have a
look at them then.  I shall keep you posted.


Alison in Colchester, Essex, UK where it's raining (nothing new there then)
but we aren't as badly hit as other parts of the UK

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