[lace] Tatman

[Lorelei Halley]

Does anyone know where Tatman is? I've heard that his website is down.

Lorelei

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RE: [lace] Jo Edkins website is unavailable

[Lorelei Halley]

At some point in the last year Jo redesigned her website, and it now has 
different urls. Here is a current link.
https://www.theedkins.co.uk/jo/lace/index.htm 
Lorelei

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of Penelope Piip
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 2:28 AM
To: lace@arachne.com
Subject: [lace] Jo Edkins website is unavailable

Can anyone tell me why Jo Edkins's website is unavailable?
I just wanted to see if she had a hexagonal grid that I could use & I get the 
"Server not found" message.
Has the website name/url been moved to another website?

I hope that it can be brought back up as it's a useful resource for all 
lacemakers, especially beginners.

Hugs from a snowy Tartu,
Penelope



--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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RE: [lace] Historical bobbins

[Lorelei Halley]

There are several coronavirus patterns, mostly tape laces, being shown on
facebook now.Mostly in a group called Bobbin Lace Makers.

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of Devon
Thein
Subject: [lace] Historical bobbins

I am struck by the value put on bobbins that commemorate grisly occasions

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RE: [lace] Re: Why is Burano mesh very rectangular looking?

[Lorelei Halley]

Laurie
That is a very interesting account. I would never have thought that the
manner of holding thread and the use of a pillow could make so much
difference. A valuable point of view.

Also, regarding "Old Flanders". I think that is a term concocted by lace
dealers and those trying to promote lace making circa 1900. They tried to
give a name to a kind of lace to make it sound a lot better than it was.
There is no way anyone with lots of study behind them would confuse these
pieces with laces from around 1700. The style is vastly different.
Collectors tend to value really old stuff rather than new stuff. So the name
of the style was invented to give it a suggestion of age.
Lorelei

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of Laurie
Waters
Subject: [lace] Re: Why is Burano mesh very rectangular looking?

The reason the Burano mesh is square looking has to do with the way it is
made. This is a pillow-made needlelace, rather than the handheld laces of
Alencon and Belgium

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RE: Re[2]: [lace] Our mail list software

[Lorelei Halley]

Sue
I think part of the problem with facebook as a host is their software
itself. It doesn't encourage lengthy answers. I wrote a whole page on an
unrelated subject and their software said they would make it invisible to
others after 24 hours. I think there are lots of people on facebook lace
groups simple because facebook has so many members. You can reach a very
large number of potential participants because of that. Never might that the
quality of communication is severely limited. Ning has lots of good
features. Its primary limitation is that they want a hosting fee every year.
I have found a way to deal with that, but I would rather not have to.
Lorelei

-Original Message-
To: Sue Babbs 
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [lace] Our mail list software

the text-only format of Arachne encourages more in-depth theoretical
conversations that tend to happen in Bobbin lace Facebook groups, where most
often people post photos of their work and receive comments of praise, but
it doesn't foster long conversations. 
However, I don't disagree with the idea of changing platforms, if we could
figure out how to do it smoothly. My only concern is less tech-savvy members
being left behind. I'd also like to float the idea of an Arachne "Zoom" meet
up - the video meeting chat platform, if anyone is interested.

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RE: [lace] Clippykit Bag Patterns by Jane Atkinson

[Lorelei Halley]

Susan
Not knowing the specific pattern you are working, I can say this. It is usually 
possible to do some extra stitches before or after a pin, where the threads are 
bunched together so closely. You can use those "mistakes" to set which pair 
will be the weaver.
Lorelei
Subject: [lace] Clippykit Bag Patterns by Jane Atkinson

 . I am clueless on how to change colors when starting stripes on the 
righthand side! In the upper right corner, 

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RE: [lace] In search of Mikhaylov pattern

[Lorelei Halley]

Gon
I have looked at your website many times. But I am struck once again by your
generosity and the effort involved in posting all these patterns. Thanks.
Lorelei
Subject: Re: [lace] In search of Mikhaylov pattern

Dear Jean,

On my website https://kloskant.com  are still the
edgings per week available with 5 Michailov patterns.

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[lace] threads

[Lorelei Halley]

What can you all tell me about these threads: Klasklogaren, Fil au
Chinois   I have a question from a member of laceioli.

 

Thanks

Lorelei

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RE: [lace] Arizona free library

[Lorelei Halley]

Alex
This link works to get to the list of available documents:
http://www2.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/lace.html 
Lorelei

Subject: [lace] Arizona free library

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RE: Re[2]: [lace] Agnes Herzog work

[Lorelei Halley]

I have admired her work for a long time.
Lorelei

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RE: [lace] Lassen question

[Lorelei Halley]

Ann Bucks book on the Thomas Lester laces shows many Bedfordshire designs
with turned corners, dating from the last half of the 19th century. I have
seen Tonder patterns with turned corners, but have no way to date the
examples. So I am not sure if they are 19th or 20th century, but they do
contain the same problems as designing corners for Bucks -- the flattened
grid for the ground. 
Lorelei

-Original Message-
Subject: Re: [lace] Lassen question

Pam Nottingham was emphatic that she and her students were the first to
design flat corners for edging handkerchiefs, in the mid-twentieth C. She
must have meant only Bucks 

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RE: [lace] Lassen question

[Lorelei Halley]

Jane --  As I understand it the technique of attaching strips of Chantilly
or other laces together, to make a large object, is called "point de
raccroc" (spelling??)  It attempts to imitate the same thread path as the
ground, but there is no overlap. Lassen overlaps the end of the lace onto
the beginning.
Lorelei

-Original Message-
Subject: Re: [lace] Lassen question

Is this the name that is used for the stitching to attach bands of Chantilly
together to form the really big shawls? Or does that have another name?
  
  
  


 From: "Bev Walker" 
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 12:31 PM
To: "Gon Homburg" 
Cc: "Adele Shaak" , "lacelijst -" 
Subject: Re: [lace] Lassen question   
Then I wasn't far off the mark after all.
Thanks for the background information. Lassen and lace are "tied together"
in origin.
I like words.
Bev in Shirley BC Canada

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RE: [lace] Lassen question

[Lorelei Halley]

Flanders also uses lassen.


-Original Message-
Subject: Re: [lace] Lassen question

I think that lassen is something that you do with Binche and point de
Paris. Are there any other laces that use "lassen"?   Nancy, did you see
any other handkerchiefs of interest? I might have photos.

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RE: [lace] Valenciennes by Whiting, was: Point Ground Lace

[Lorelei Halley]

Jo
There is a book by N. Andries and G. Vroom VALENCIENNESKANTJES, 2011,
published by the authors. It is the same format as Caroluskantjes -- loose
sheets, one for each pattern. The collection starts with a bunch of grounds
used in Valenciennes at various times. They are sorted chronologically. If
you can find a copy that might be of some use.
Lorelei

Subject: [lace] Valenciennes by Whiting, was: Point Ground Lace
There are still many grounds in the Whiting index that don't yet have
diagrams. The subtle variations of Valenciennes are causing me headaches
Jo

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RE: [lace] English point ground lace

[Lorelei Halley]

I was about to mention this book. But Diane beat me to it. It deals with
issues like how many passives in the foot. Relative size of the gimp. Very
nit picky little details. But in broad terms it is very difficult to
distinguish the place and nation of origin of any point ground lace.
Everybody made some version of it in the 19th c.
Lorelei


From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of Diane
Williams
Subject: Re: [lace] English point ground lace

Susan,Have you ever read Point Ground Lace: A Comparative Study published by
OIDFA?B  Pink cover, mostly tables that compare the attributes of the
different point ground laces.


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RE: [lace] What is the best way to start bobbin lace?

[Lorelei Halley]

Many years ago Elizabeth Kurella designed some dinosaur patterns, very simple, 
but just the thing to entice a boy. I don't know if the patterns were ever 
published or where one could find them. I would love to see them readily 
available.
Lorelei

-Original Message-Subject: Re: [lace] What is the best way to start 
bobbin lace?

I think the biggest problem is what they are to make, as that usually is 
slanted toward female lace makers.Flowers are not going to work for a boy 
of that age. Thus I think the most difficult bit of this admirable plan is to 
find things in lace that boys would want to make.  

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RE: [lace] Re: What is the best way to start bobbin lace?

[Lorelei Halley]

Devon
I belong to that group on facebook, and Bev is right. Lots of beginners asking 
advice. It is useful. The other alternative is laceioli, which also has a 
beginners group. http://laceioli.ning.comBoth are free to join. I like the 
ning software better. Both allow posting photos, so students can ask for help 
and why the threads go the wrong way.
Lorelei

Subject: [lace] Re: What is the best way to start bobbin lace?
Bev Walker sent the following suggestion, which I am posting in order to 
continue the conversation:
"Tell her and others to join the Facebook group Bobbin Lace Makers.
Devon

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RE: [lace] Alice Howell hacked?

[Lorelei Halley]

I got the same message
Lorelei

On Behalf Of Devon Thein
Subject: [lace] Alice Howell hacked?

I am wondering if these messages from Alice Howell asking  the list, as though 
a single person,  to buy a gift card 

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RE: [lace] Book title

[Lorelei Halley]

Alex
Congratulations on your newest book. Do you have any idea when it will be
printed?

I do have a suggestion, believing that your most recent is on Mechlin.
There is a lack of adequate books on pottenkant and the laces of the late
16th century. There have been a few books on revival era Paris lace, but I
suspect that the techniques of Paris ground laces, when they first appeared,
may be somewhat different. Basically, Antwerp laces dating from c. 1650 -
1750.
Lorelei
-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of Alex
Stillwell
Subject: [lace] Book title
I have just completed my latest book. Until now I have always had another
that I wanted to write. Now I have written the ones I considered needed
writing and feel lost without a topic to research and write about. Does
anyone have any ideas of where to direct my interest?
Alex

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RE: [lace] Armenian Lacemakers?

[Lorelei Halley]

Elena
The online network http://needlelacetalk.ning.com includes Armenian needle
lace in its subject matter. We have quite a few members who do
Armenian/Turkish knotted needlelace.
http://needlelacetalk.ning.com/group/oyaturkisharmenianmediterraneanknottedn
eedlelace 
We also have several albums of work by our members.
http://needlelacetalk.ning.com/photo/albums/oya-bebilla-armenian-turkish-ken
e-igne-oyalari-needle-oya 

http://needlelacetalk.ning.com/photo/albums/oya2-edgings 

http://needlelacetalk.ning.com/photo/albums/oya3-flowers 

Lorelei Halley   Administrator needlelacetalk


-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of Elena
Kanagy-Loux
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2018 2:45 PM
To: Arachne 
Subject: [lace] Armenian Lacemakers?

Hello everyone,

I hope you're all having a wonderful week!

As many of you know, I started a new job in October as the Collections
Specialist at the Antonio Ratti Textile Center at the Metropolitan Museum of
Art. My job mainly consists of holding viewings of textiles with curators,
conservators, and members of the public. I am also responsible for pulling
things in and out of storage and carefully unpacking and repacking them.
This means that I get to see a lot of incredible lace, as it makes up 5,000
pieces of our 33,000 piece collection!

Today we had a visitor from California named Deborah Valoma who is
interested in meeting other Armenian lacemakers in the U.S. and beyond. She
is the former head of the Textiles Department at the California College of
Arts in Northern California, and recently inherited a collection of over
200 pieces of lace made by her Armenian grandmother. Does anyone know of any
Armenian lacemakers that I can connect her with? She would be so thrilled to
get in touch.

She also has a young student in her program who makes lace that she's going
to put me in touch with. She was really intrigued by the "Lace, Not Lace"
catalogue that was sitting out in the Ratti Library so I gave her a copy
that Devon had left for us to share.
How nice to be surprised with a visiting lacemaker!

Thanks in advance everyone for your help! Any and all information would be
great.

All the Best,
Elena

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[lace] Belgian war lace

[Lorelei Halley]

Try this link

http://laceioli.ning.com/forum/topics/beligan-war-lace-from-wwi?xg_source=ac
tivity 

 

Lorelei

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RE: [lace] an identification question

[Lorelei Halley]

Devon
I've posted a reply to your ID question on laceioli
http://laceioli.ning.com/group/identification-history?xg_source=activity 
My answer should be visible to everybody, even non-members. I've included links 
to some of my pinterest boards, for comparison purposes.
Lorelei

Subject: [lace] an identification question

This piece says it is Flemish, Southern Netherlands, ca. 1800. Fond de mariage; 
outlined with heavy thread suggestive of Mechlin; It is 2 1/2 inches wide.
I don't feel that calling it Mechlin is necessarily correct. Devon

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RE: [lace] Lace, not Lace, progress

[Lorelei Halley]

Devon
It is great to hear about all the behind-the-scenes work for an exhibition. 
Including how you try to create information for docents to use. Fascinating. 
You'll do great.
Lorelei

Subject: [lace] Lace, not Lace, progress
Tomorrow I am supposed to give a tour to volunteers and docents so that they 
know about the pieces in case they are asked. So, today I am rereading the 
catalog trying to come up with something that will sound coherent.
Devon

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RE: [lace] Lace teacher in Venice

[Lorelei Halley]

Olga
There is an Italian language group on Facebook. Perhaps someone there might
know.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/264891343672134/ 
Lorelei

Subject: [lace] Lace teacher in Venice
My friend is looking for a bobbin lace or a needle lace teacher in Venice or
nearby. She has found out that lace school was closed couple of years ago.
Olga

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RE: [lace] 12 pair crossings

[Lorelei Halley]

Sharon
>From a verbal description it is impossible to say with any real reliability.
Cluny, or its precursor Genoese are possibilities. If you are a member of
laceioli you could post the photo there, and then you could get some real
answers.
Lorelei

Subject: [lace] 12 pair crossings
I have a piece of vintage lace and have now been shown 2 more examples where
there are 6 or 8 leaf tallies crossing in a peculiar way.  To begin with the
tallies are long and skinny, where they join in the middle it appears that
each half of either the  6 or 8 was made separately and sewn together later.
Any ideas where this wouldve been made and when?  Otherwise the pieces
resemble Cluny.  Sharon 

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RE: [lace] Mystery thread

[Lorelei Halley]

Lorri
I have used their thread and liked it very well. The thread of theirs that I
have used is linen. I am not aware that they made cotton threads. Their 80/2
linen is comparable in size to tatting cotton #80. Bockens 80/2 would be a
bit finer, because Bockens tends to twist their threads more tightly, which
results in a thinner thread.
Lorelei

The cone is plastic and measures 4.5 in. or 11.5 mm. high.  Am I correct
that it is 80/2 cotton?
There is a sticker inside the bottom reading:

FFR Aalst
9052
80/2Wit Blanc
ca 2500M
Brillante

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[lace] Corbet

[Lorelei Halley]

This is an excerpt from a private email that I sent to Susan. Don't jump to
conclusions too quickly about what other people are thinking.

 

"But I should also say that I understand this issue from an
author's/designer's perspective. When writing a book one often comes up with
2 versions of a pattern and one can't decide which to use. She probably has
a diagram that matches the pattern, but just grabbed the wrong one to give
to the publisher. In my TORCHON BOBBIN LACE PATTERNS book (self published) I
didn't work the entire edging with 4 corners for some of the designs, but
just one corner. But my design wasn't symmetrical, perfectly, with the
result that there would have to be 2 different corner prickings and
diagrams. I only discovered my mistake after the book was finished. Writing
a bobbin lace how-to manual involves incredible levels of detail accuracy.
Even those of us with diagram-it is don't always get it right."

 

Lorelei

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[lace] Corbett's Flanders

[Lorelei Halley]

I wrote to Susan Hottle in answer to her question about Corbett's pattern.
She asked me to post the answer to arachne as well, so here it is (minus the
diagrams).

Susan

Your are right. The pattern and the diagram do not match. And it isn't just
a matter of how many pinholes. The connection in one movement and the
connection in 2 movements have a different pinning array of the side which
lies between the close work and the ground.

 

In FLANDERS CORNER the blue boxes identify where a connection in one
movement should occur. The orange box shows the array when a connection in 2
movements should be made. However, if you look at IMG 117 you will see that
every single pinning array, on all 4 sides has the connection in 1 movement.
Nowhere is there the correct pinning array for the connection in 2
movements.  OOPS

 

So I would say, just do the normal connection in 1 movement, and put in
extra turning stitches at the corner, or remove some, to make the corner
looking good.

 

Corbett isn't the only author who has made mistakes. Pam Nottingham also has
diagrams that don't match her photos. I suppose we should be grateful that
they are writing books and giving us instructions and patterns. Without them
we would be in a worse case. I still think Corbett's book is pretty good.
But if I try one of her patterns I will carefully check the pricking against
the diagram before I start.

Lorelei

 

Susan

I forgot to mention that on the diagram I put colored rings around turning
stitches or fudge stitches. Put them in wherever you need to, to keep the
weaver in the cloth area more level and straight. I think if you undo just
the last row or2 you could manage with turning stitches. I assume you know
various ways to do turning stitches. Or skip an outer edge pin if that is
what is needed. 

 

I would start with a scan of the pattern at high resolution, so you can get
a printout of just the corner area. Draw in all the directional lines for
the weaver and ground connections. Work it out on paper first. I do that
when I get stuck.

 

The red rings are places where the weaver doesn't go all the way to the ring
pair. The green rings are turning stitches midway through the cloth work.

Lorelei Halley

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RE: [lace] Re: Demise of Fine Linen Lace, was Faery Lace

[Lorelei Halley]

Back in the 1980s there was a brief period when linen thread in 140/2 and
120/2 was available, but only for a few years. It has since disappeared.
Since 1980, when I started lace making, there hasn't been anything finer,
thinner. I don't know what the finest size threads were available for
antique laces.
Lorelei

Subject: Re: [lace] Re: Demise of Fine Linen Lace, was Faery Lace

I have heard of old Mechlin being made with 240/2 linen thread.
Liz R, Raleigh NC

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RE: [lace] Cilaos needle lace

[Lorelei Halley]

Susan
I think the distinction between needle lace and embroidery is quite clear,
at least in my own mind. But I am thinking of the structure of the finished
object, and the working methods while it was under construction. If there is
any background woven fabric still existing in the piece, it is embroidery.
The woven fabric forms the substrate, the ground, which holds the thing
together. True needle lace requires the construction of a temporary
scaffolding, in the form of the needle lace sandwich. Now, knotted
Mediterranean needle laces, both Turkish/Armenian and puncetto, don't have
the sandwich or any temporary scaffolding, but they are definitely "stitches
in the air".

There are several forms of embroidery which use the same filling stitches
used in geometric needle lace: reticella embroidery, all forms of
rectangular cutwork (including Cilaos), Hardanger, and even filet lacis
(square knotted netting decorated with embroidery).

So in my thinking if woven fabric persists in the object as the structural
framework, it is embroidery. If there is no woven fabric, it is needle lace.
The really difficult one if filet lacis. The very same fillings are used in
that form as in geometric cutwork. But the permanent grounding is hand
knotted square mesh. 

There is also a problem with sol laces. Again, the decorations used may be
the same as in drawn thread embroidery, or much more elaborate. There is a
scaffolding, but it is hand made.
Lorelei

Subject: [lace] Cilaos needle lace
"how & when do we distinguish between needle lace & lace-like embroidery?"
Susan Hottle USA

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RE: [lace] Faery Lace?

[Lorelei Halley]

Nancy
I don't disagree at all. What I found interesting was your statement about
"extinction of the cultivars" for super fine linen thread. I have been
thinking along those lines for a long time, but never came across any
corroboration. However, I thought it happened in WWI, not the French
revolution. Where did you find that statement? I'm just curious.

Subject: Re: [lace] Faery Lace?
"I think all modern Binche falls into "Point de Fee" or "Fairy Lace  
All the commercial Binche lace, for the tourist industry, is Point de
Fee. (or if linen the thread will be thicker than the finest thread
pre-1800 of course, because of the extermination of the flax cultivars for
the finest linen threads, during the French Revolution.) ...older Binche is
more densely woven, although it can be very light-weight because of how
extremely fine some of the pre-1800 linen is."
Nancy

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RE: [lace] Faery Lace?

[Lorelei Halley]

Lynn
It is my impression, perhaps imprecise, that "fairy lace" was just another name 
for Binche. More specifically, the kind of Binche that has lots of little 
spots. From my website, go about 40% down the page.
http://lynxlace.com/bobbinlacerevivalerastraight.html 
Here is a specific example -- http://lynxlace.com/images/lace342a.jpg 
Lorelei

Subject: [lace] Faery Lace?

"a rather small circle doily of Binche with the Antelope from Anne-Marie 
Verbecke-Billiet's Syllabus of Binch.  The label described it as Faery Lace.  
Maybe it was Fairy LaceI pointed out to the sales person where this came from, 
and he pulled out the pages with this pattern on it from the Syllabus, 
maintaining that this was, indeed, a form of Binch called Fae[i]ry lace.
  OK, experts, is there a form of Binche called Faery Lace?
Lyn in Brussels

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RE: [lace] Help needed

[Lorelei Halley]

Alison
I don't have a video link for you but I do have diagrams on my website that
show what to do.
http://lynxlace.com/learningbobbinlace-basics.html#sewings 
In this next one, about half way down begins another description of sewings.
And about 90% down the file is a description of false plaits. These are
explained in sequential diagrams.
http://lynxlace.com/learningbobbinlace-tapelacemat.html 

You describe difficulties manipulating the crochet hook. The issue may be
the size of the hook. It has to be large enough to grab the whole thread,
without piercing the thread. But it needs to be small enough to get it
through the loop or hole where the sewing will be made.
Lorelei

-Original Message-
Subject: [lace] Help needed

"Returning to tape lace after a long time I am struggling with the sewings
and false plaits. "
from Alison in Colchester

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[lace] Cilaos

[Lorelei Halley]

I have the book  JOURS ANCIENS DE CILAOS by Mick Fouriscot and Suzanne
Maillot, Editions Didier Carpentier, 1998. From the diagrams showing how to
set up and work this, it is clearly a form of cutwork embroidery, somewhat
in the same family as reticella. Some threads of the woven fabric are
removed, the edge stabilized, then complicated designs worked in the empty
spaces, anchored to the few fabric threads that remain. So it isn't really
lace at all. Lace assumes no background fabric remaining - punto in aria.

 

I think we could say it bears some resemblance to teneriffe, but only in the
complexity of the motifs. Teneriffe itself grew out of drawn thread work,
where a channel is prepared in the fabric: one section having only
horizontal threads removed, another section having only vertical threads
removed. This leaves a fairly large square hole at the corners. These
corners were then filled with elaborate star of flower motifs. Somebody
figured out how to dispense with the woven fabric entirely, and just work
the fancy corners.

 

Lorelei Halley

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[lace] oya

[Lorelei Halley]

Does anyone know anything about the history of Oya - knotted Mediterranean
needle lace? Particularly how old it is. History prior to 1900.

Lorelei Halley

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[lace] RE: [lace] New postings on the "Arizona" site

[Lorelei Halley]

Tess
I have her 1st book and it is superb. I highly recommend those books for
download. Out gratitude to Suzanne for making them available.
Lorelei Halley

From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of Tess
Parrish
Subject: [lace] New postings on the "Arizona" site. .. 

We are all very grateful to Susanne Thompson for giving us permission to
include her two books on Honiton lacemaking on the b

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RE: [lace] early lace video

[Lorelei Halley]

I wonder if some sort of injury or neurological disorder has her using her 
dominant hand so little. I assume that her right hand sets the pins because she 
has better control; but she is only using 2 fingers of that hand. The others 
aren't doing anything. Also, being right handed, I could never acquire so much 
fine control of my left hand. Mostly I use both hands equally. But my more 
precise hand sets the pins.

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of Devon Thein
Subject: [lace] early lace video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwcSaAXtZsc is may favorite to date, although 
at 1931, I wish it was a little bit earlier.
This youtube is interesting in that the woman is using her left hand way more 
than I use mine. In some cases, it seems like she does all the movements with 
her left hand and uses the right, principally for pin placement. Is this an 
aberration 

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RE: [lace] 2018 Arachne Bookmark Exchange

[Lorelei Halley]

In addition to Lin's photos, there are some really nice Duchesse and
Carrickmacross. The latter has some really good closeups which allow the
viewer to see the layers of work.
Lorelei

From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of Lin
Hudren
Subject: [lace] 2018 Arachne Bookmark Exchange
*https://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/

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RE: [lace] Happy International Lace Day

[Lorelei Halley]

Jeri

As I understand it, this International Lace Day idea first appeared on the
facebook in 2015, by Bolillera Maribel (that is the name she uses on
facebook). This is the thing about the internet; anyone and everyone has equal
freedom to create or post anything they like, without a bunch of people
standing behind them and authorizing their activities. It results in a certain
amount of chaos. But it also means that the individual has a great deal of
freedom to do whatever they like. It is my impression that the national lace
groups did not get together to establish an international lace day. So this
lady just went and did it on her own. If her effort works, well and good. And
it does seem to be working.

Lorelei

---

From: Jeri Ames 
Subject: Re: [lace] Happy International Lace Day



I think we wrote in the past that all the major lace organizations should get
together and standardize this celebration, if it is to be called
"International".  It would be nice if our major guilds communicated with each
other, and if one major guild volunteered to take this on as a special
project.

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RE: [lace] Lace projects

[Lorelei Halley]

Alice
Honor to your courage in attacking that particular piece!! Please be sure to
post a photo on flickr whenever you get it finished.
Lorelei

Subject: [lace] Lace projects
The project at hand is finishing Miss Channer's Mat. I have about 5 square
inches left to do. It's been a 3 year project.
Alice in Oregon

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[lace] Comprehensive list of lace books

[Lorelei Halley]

I forgot to post the last link. This one deals with structural differences
(working methods and thread paths) of different styles of bobbin lace.

http://lynxlace.com/bobbinlace2structuralclasses.html 

 

This one compares laces that look similar, but are very very different in
structure and kind.

http://lynxlace.com/compare.html 

 

A brief overview of lace history.

http://lynxlace.com/bobbinlacehistoryoverview.html 

 

Lorelei

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RE: [lace] Comprehensive list of lace books?

[Lorelei Halley]

Amy
I have several resources set up which should be helpful. First I recommend
Santina Levey's LACE. She has worked out a way to date lace by using sample
books for woven brocades. If a lace is similar in style, with similar
motifs, then the date of the lace may match the brocade's date. She does not
use guesswork, but evidence, to assign dates. Here is a list of links.
http://laceioli.ning.com/group/identification-history  It has a huge list of
resources. Laceioli is free to join, but you have to join before you can
post comments or questions.

This page is very basic. http://lynxlace.com/kindsoflace.html 

I have a large number of pinterest pages, with laces sorted by their
structural type and style, and date (in some cases). I think you have to
have a pinterest account, or you may not be able to see my boards. If you
don't have an account I recommend that you create one, because my pinterest
boards are a vast resource.
https://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/boards/ 

This page has explanations about the structural differences (working methods
and thread paths) that define specific styles of lace.

I realize this list may be overwhelming. But if you seriously look at it,
over a sufficient length of time, you will be able to identify laces.
Lorelei Halleylynxlace.com
http://laceioli.ning.com

Hi all,  I'm newer to the lace world, and am very interested in reading
about its history. I'm also interested in learning how to visually identify
the different types of lace and the time periods they came from. Is there a
"master list" of lace books floating around somewhere that I could access?
Amy

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RE: [lace] wonderful resource-machine lacemaking

[Lorelei Halley]

Devon
The echoes of this issue may yet rise again. In the matter of AI, robots, etc. 
I keep thinking that the clever boys who invented these machines weren't 
thinking about consequences.
Lorelei

Subject: [lace] wonderful resource-machine lacemaking
...these are the people who displaced the people who performed the activity 
that we enjoy. Are we not loyal to the memory of the hand lacemakers, the 
actual Luddites, who rose up in Nottingham to destroy the lacemaking machines?
Devon

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RE: [lace] Rosaline progress & misc.

[Lorelei Halley]

Susan
A pretty little piece. I'm so glad you are continuing to pursue Rosaline lace.
Lorelei

Subject: [lace] Rosaline progress & misc. 
I finished a small piece of Rosaline designed by Ghislaine Moors. A pic is 
posted to Flickr & in spite of its many mistakes, I’m pleased that it resembles 
the intended design. Sincerely, Susan Hottle USA Sent from my iPad

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RE: [lace] Modern vs Tradtional

[Lorelei Halley]

Brian - Your quilts are very interesting. I had no idea you made quilts. How
did you get from quilts to historical bobbins?
Lorelei
Hi all,  You will know that I am not a lace maker, but in my patchwork hobby
life, we are experiencing the same slow evolution away from traditional
patchworking.
Blog: https://modernquiltjourney.wordpress.com/

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RE: [lace] West Coast USA lacemakers

[Lorelei Halley]

David - I have posted your event on laceioli in the EVENTS section. Let me
know about updates.
Lorelei

Subject: [lace] West Coast USA lacemakers
On Saturday 26th January 2019, our dear friend Stormy Lee Van den Houten
would like to host a Meet and Greet for me. If more than a few would like to
visit we will hold it at Amy's Yarn shop in Kelso, WA. It is just a bit down
the road from Castle Rock, 

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RE: [lace] New Grounds

[Lorelei Halley]

Devon
I am convinced that the motive behind the prevalence of point ground in the 
19th c was speed of working. So much that went on during that time was aimed at 
speeding up the process, to compete with machine lace (a hopeless prospect). 
Even the clothwork was simplified.
Lorelei

Subject: [lace] New Grounds
i am not sure why simple grounds like point ground came to dominate in the 19th 
century. Perhaps it was a matter of taste, a preference for gossamer lightness 
in the case of the blondes. Maybe it was a matter of speed.
Devon

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[lace] reporting lace news

[Lorelei Halley]

The description Devon gives of her lace reporting activities was
interesting. I am doing much the same thing, collecting information form the
20 odd facebook lace groups that I belong to and posting the best parts to
laceioli and needlelacetalk. Interesting photos are posted to my pinterest
pages. The photos I select to link to are either very good examples of a
particular type, or exceptionally unusual or very high quality design. There
is a lot of lace news being reported. I often hesitate to post on arachne
because !. arachne can't handle photos, and I would have to make a separate
post to our flickr account. And 2. Arachne can't handle long urls, and
nowadays nearly all photos on the web have very long urls. Now, I could take
the time to do all this, but I spend a lot of my day, every day, checking
out my facebook groups. There is a limit to how much fussing I am willing to
do.  So to see what is interesting - 

http://laceioli.ning.com 

http://needlelacetalk.ning.com

http://pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/boards/ 

I think I will have to get an Instagram account to keep up with Devon.

Lorelei

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RE: 'Clifhangers' with some postings eg [lace] 20th century bobbin lace grounds

[Lorelei Halley]

I also get only part of Devon's messages. So I have created a tab for the
arachne archive and immediately go there to view the full text. Annoying,
but it solves the problem.
Lorelei
From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of Jay Ekers
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 8:22 AM

I only get part of Devon's messages.  The last character received is nearly
always a 'b'.
Jay in Sydney

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RE: [lace] Cantu, Carrickmacross, Chantilly, Cluny, Coggeshall, Coralline

[Lorelei Halley]

Sue
Coralline was a Venetian needle lace, fairly old, but I am not sure of its
date. Supposedly its designs were reminiscent of branching coral.
Lorelei
From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of Sue
Harvey
Hi Jeri, had never heard of Coralline so did a Google search and all I got
was jewellery and algae? 
Sue M Harvey

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[lace] defining lace

[Lorelei Halley]

I just want to throw in my 2 cents worth - I have Jill Nordfors' book from
long ago, before I even started making lace. Personally I would not regard
most of that book as lace. She focuses on detached buttonhole stitch laid on
top of the base fabric, and that fabric remains as part of the finished
work. I would class this as embroidery, just as stump work is a 3
dimensional form of embroidery. I do think transparency or holes are a
necessary part of lace, because the aesthetic is different for embroidery
and for lace. In embroidery color is usually a primary factor, with raised
work, layers and textures an added element of appeal. With lace the division
of the surface into areas of different textures, weaves and  densities is
where the design focus has to be. I don't think color needs to be excluded
from lace. I have used color right from the start, when I was learning. But
color does add a problem to lace, in that it often obscures the density
variations. One of my own pieces demonstrated this to me when I tried to
photograph it. When I backlit the piece the density variations really stood
out. But the color variations disappeared. (I used white and shades of
off-white randomly throughout the piece.) When I frontlit the piece the
color variations were really obvious, but the density variations
disappeared. So I had to both light it from the front and from behind to get
a good photo. It took all day and a horrendous backache to achieve it.

http://lynxlace.com/images/r12l.jpg 

Lorelei

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RE: [lace] Re: Lace, Not Lace Reaction to Needle Lace Revival Arachne comments 3/28/18

[Lorelei Halley]

Amy
Your discussion about Instagram was very interesting, and I was almost ready
to join up and start using them. Until you said they are owned by facebook.
Perhaps I will join and see how it works, cautiously. 
However with search engines and hashtags -- I deliberately set up the
opening page for both needlelacetalk and laceioli so that all the phrases I
could think of that people would likely use to find lace would be on that
opening page. Most of our visitors come to us from google and pinterest, and
very few from facebook.
Lorelei

There has been a lot of great discussion following the "Lace, Not Lace"
exhibit that Devon Thein is working on regarding how to connect with younger
generations, plus the discussion of groups on Facebook and other platforms
like Ning.
Instagram is currently the most popular site for connecting "visually" to
new topics and Instagram is completely centered around photos
(Disclaimer: they are owned by Facebook). Hopefully this has inspired
you to check out Instagram (and maybe change your posting habits on
Facebook) so that we can share all of this amazing lace with generations of
potential lacemakers!

Amy O'Malley

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RE: [lace] Weaver's knot

[Lorelei Halley]

Sue
That kind of tool is also used by jewelers. In the U.S. Rio Grande in
Albuquerque sells them.
Lorelei

Subject: Re: [lace] Weaver's knot
Another useful tip I collected a while ago from Arachne was to purchase a
fly tying tool from the fishing shop for a few pennies   Sue M Harvey
Norfolk UK 

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RE: [lace] Re: Lace, Not Lace Reaction to Needle Lace Revival Arachne comments 3/28/18

[Lorelei Halley]

Marianne

The facebook page I set up for needle lace has as its sole purpose to direct
people to the ning site, where all the action occurs. I belong to nearly 20
facebook lace sites of various kinds. So I am familiar with how it works. I
deliberately chose not to use facebook for my own network because I don’t
like the way their software works, I don’t like facebook’s own priorities,
and I don’t like being used for facebook’s purposes. In the recent news we
have heard about data mining, it appears that my decision was absolutely
right, even though it happened much much earlier than the current flap.  As I
participate in my various facebook groups I direct their attention to
needlelacetalk when appropriate. I am more concerned with getting new members
from google searches than from facebook. Although we do get members and
traffic from facebook.

Also, I have set needlelacetalk to be public which means that the whole world
can see everything on the site, except the member list. But I have also set it
so that I can weed out spammers and other “bad actors”. For a facebook
group to weed out spammers the group must be private, so nobody in the world
but members can see the content. I do think my method is better in giving
potential worldwide exposure to lace.

I’m surprised you hadn’t discovered needlelacetalk from your facebook
activity. But, admittedly, I try not to be too in-your-face in directing
people to needlelacetalk. Such behavior would not be welcome to the group
administrators. So I try to be “tactful” about it.

Lorelei



From: Marianne Gallant 
Subject: Re: [lace] Re: Lace, Not Lace Reaction to Needle Lace Revival Arachne
comments 3/28/18



I know there are 'pages' on Facebook, but that is just not the same as groups.

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RE: [lace] needle lace types

[Lorelei Halley]

Marianne
Needlelacetalk has a set of videos by Michael Dennis and links to some other
good online lessons for needle lace.
http://needlelacetalk.ning.com/page/tutorials-1 
We also have a BEGINNERS group.
http://needlelacetalk.ning.com/group/beginners 
Lorelei

Subject: [lace] needle lace types
All this talk about needle lace got me thinking I might want to get back
into doing some. I do have a couple of books, but I started wondering what
was new. So I went to the Vansciver website, and noticed that the only books
on needle lace available at the moment are Italian books, 

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RE: [lace] Re: Lace, Not Lace Reaction to Needle Lace Revival Arachne comments 3/28/18

[Lorelei Halley]

Marianne
I have a page on facebook which has links to the needlelacetalk site.
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=needlelacetalk 
http://needlelacetalk.ning.com 

You should take a look at the photos on that site. There is some very
spectacular needle lace by its members. But there is a reason I did not set
the group up on facebook. I saw long ago that their focus was on people
"friending" each other, rather than on content. The ning software allows us
to avoid all advertising and really large photos. The facebook software
limits how much detail in a photo will be seen by the viewer.

By the way, needlelacetalk is free to join.

Lorelei

Subject: Re: [lace] Re: Lace, Not Lace Reaction to Needle Lace Revival
Arachne comments 3/28/18
Guess what, there is no group for needle lace. There are several for bobbin
lace and tatting, but not needle lace. I think someone should start one,
because on the other lace groups I see more and more young people wanting to
learn and getting into both bobbin lace and tatting. So if we want to
promote the art of needle lace it should get onto Facebook, *Marianne*

Marianne Gallant

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[lace] contemporary needle lace

[Lorelei Halley]

Elena

A very interesting perspective. Personally I value needle laces in all 3
categories: 

   those exhibiting all the characteristics of the antique laces in both
scale and technique and design.

  Those using the best techniques of antique laces, but with modern design

  Those enlarged in scale and perhaps simplified in technique

 

That is why I started needlelacetalk. I wanted to foster all those kinds,
and support the work of living lace artists with our enthusiasm. I
personally don't think any one of those is superior to the others. I will
never be able to contribute to the first group myself. My eyesight prevents
it, and my skill just doesn't reach that level. I want to learn those "best
techniques of antique laces", but probably will never reach the level of
Catherine Barley or some of our needlelacetalk members. My own needle lace
will therefore fall into the 3rd category. I make no apology for that.

 

As for lace being white and having holes in it - my personal definition has
to do with transparency or partial transparency and white just doesn't
matter.  (Although white or a solid color focuses the attention on the
transparency aspect.)

Lorelei

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RE: [lace] Weaver's knot

[Lorelei Halley]

Nancy
Very useful. Thanks
Lorelei
To: Arachne 
Subject: [lace] Weaver's knot

Because there have been questions about weaver's knots in the past, and
because making this knot would often give me fits before my recent epiphany,
I've put together a series of rough photos that shows the steps that work
for me. Purple is the "broken thread" and cream the "new thread", but that's
probably obvious from the slip knot being made in the cream thread.

These photos have been uploaded to Arachne2003 on Flickr, into the album
"Weaver's Knot". I strongly recommend getting two colors of twine or cord,
perhaps crochet cotton, and practicing while being able to see the knot as
you make it.
Nancy

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[lace] Margaret Stephens

[Lorelei Halley]

Here are some of Margaret's photos, from needlelacetalk.

http://needlelacetalk.ning.com/photo/photo/listForContributor?screenName=08a
ktr41n729u 

 

Lorelei

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RE: RE: [lace] Lace Revival of the 1970s

[Lorelei Halley]

Lyn
I did talk with Doris Southard many years ago and she told me that she first 
heard of bobbin lace from an article in a women's magazine. (I don't remember 
which one -- one of the grocery store kind.) She had been a weaver and did many 
other textile crafts, but she was essentially "self-taught".  I also learned 
from her book. And earlier, from her correspondence lessons.
Lorelei

Subject: Fw: RE: [lace] Lace Revival of the 1970s
>From: lynrbai...@supernet.com
>Then there's Doris Southard in Iowa, whose book was published in the '70's. 
>Don't know how or why she learned lace, but maybe it's in her book. It's the 
>one I used to actually learn.  The only such book in any library I looked in, 
>and I am a library person. 

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RE: [lace] Aurifil 80

[Lorelei Halley]

Lyn
This is the first I have heard that Aurifil comes in 80. The finest I know 
about is Aurifil 50.
Lorelei

From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of 
lynrbai...@supernet.com
Subject: [lace] Aurifil 80
I received my Threads for Lace 7 recently, and Aurifil 80 is not listed.  Has 
anyone done the wraps per cm for this thread?  
Lyn from Lancaster, Pennsylvania

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RE: [lace] Rosaline Perle

[Lorelei Halley]

Susan
Will you post a photo on flickr so we all can see?
Lorelei

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com  On Behalf Of 
hottl...@neo.rr.com
Subject: [lace] Rosaline Perle

Hello All!  With counseling from Bev, I was finally able to finish a small 
Rosaline motif, Lesson 2 in the Geelen book.  
Susan Hottle 

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[lace] fashion history

[Lorelei Halley]

There is a fashion history book in 4 volumes (I think) that I have heard
about. But I can't remember the author & title. Can anybody help?

Lorelei

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RE: [lace] Question about early English lace

[Lorelei Halley]

Elena
You are right to question Thomas Wright's assertion. "Bone lace" is just 
another name for bobbin lace. "Pillow lace" is another term that is used 
sometimes. This is an example of how careful one must be in using any 
statements by authors of that era. Many years ago I gave some attention to 
Palliser's opinions, but I no longer even do that. Levey and Earnshaw are just 
about the only ones I really trust. But Earnshaw is better on needle lace than 
on bobbin lace. The real issue is whether the author in question has figured 
out some way of reaching outside the lace itself to pinpoint dates and 
geographical origin. An example of this is Levey's use of weavers' sample books 
(when they have dates attached to the book or to the samples) as a way of 
dating a design.
Lorelei Halley

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of Elena 
Kanagy-Loux
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 12:43 PM
To: lace@arachne.com
Subject: [lace] Question about early English lace

Hello all!

I am researching the development of the lace industry at the moment, and I have 
a fairly extensive bibliography, but there is one reference that I have only 
seen in one place.

In Thomas Wright’s “Romance of the Lace Pillow,” on page 8 he makes a 
distinction between bone lace as being finer, and bobbin lace as being coarser. 
My other trusted sources (Levey, Palliser, Earnshaw, etc) make no distinction, 
and my understanding has always been that bone lace is just an early name for 
bobbin lace. What say you all? Are there any other sources to support this or 
should I take it with a grain of salt?

Thank you!
Best,
Elena

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RE: [lace] Tonder bobbins

[Lorelei Halley]

Helen
There is a group on facebook dedicated to buying and selling bobbin lace
related stuff. People sell off their bobbin collections, books, etc. You can
post a request for just a few, and see what happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Bobbinlacemarket/ 
Lorelei

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
Helen Spencer
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:45 AM
To: Arachne List 
Subject: [lace] Tonder bobbins

Hello to all. I have recently started reading about Tonder lace - it has
similarities to other laces I've tried and I'd like to try sometime.Mostly
I'd be using my Bucks Point bobbins, or some brand new Tonder bobbins I've
sourced through ebay. 
But does nayone know where I could buy even just one or two old Tonder
bobbins; I would love to have some on my board?
Thank youHelen - UK

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[lace] Anny Noben-Slegers

[Lorelei Halley]

Try this link. I hope it works.

https://www.facebook.com/anny.nobenslegers/photos_all 

 

Lorelei

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[lace] Anny Noben-Slegers

[Lorelei Halley]

Try this link instead

https://www.facebook.com/groups/559079074247095/permalink/965090436979288/ 

Lorelei

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[lace] Anny Noben-Slegers

[Lorelei Halley]

Here are some photos of one of her pieces. I think it is eagles and their
nest.

https://www.facebook.com/saved/?cref=53 

 

Lorelei

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RE: [lace] Identification of Dutch lace needed

[Lorelei Halley]

Possible pottenkant:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/570620215277217370/ 

possible Bath Brussels:
http://lynxlace.com/bobbinlace18th.html#Bath-Brussels 

Go about half way down this page for several pottenkant on pink background:
http://lynxlace.com/bobbinlacepottenkantmilanese.html 

Some early Flemish, probably very very late 17th c or early 18th c:
https://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/early-brussels-flemish-milanese/ 

Lorelei Halley


-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
Devon Thein
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 12:04 PM
To: J-D Hammett <jdhamm...@msn.com>
Cc: Arachne reply <lace@arachne.com>
Subject: Re: [lace] Identification of Dutch lace needed

Thanks Joepie.
I feel like Potten Kant is a larger category dealing with different laces
featuring a flower pot design. Am I wrong about this? This is a very
unusual, to me, lace. It does not have any kat stitch or point de Paris type
ground in it. Only linen and half stitch. I canb

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RE: [lace] Identification of Dutch lace needed

[Lorelei Halley]

Devon
I'm afraid my usual complaint applies here, too. That is a really bad photo,
impossible to tell anything about the structure from the photo. I can't even
tell if it is a part lace or a straight lace. However, I don't think it is
pottenkant. That form does have the mirror image in the design. And most of
the photos I've seen of pottenkant show a fairly large percentage of the
surface to be taken up by a ground. And pottenkant is a straight lace.

What comes to mind as a possibility, if it is a part lace, is what Levey
calls "Bath Brussels" -- a lace made of discrete motifs, usually somewhat
loose in density, compared to Brussels lace of the early 18th century. The
design of Bath Brussels would be less taut, less well defined than in
Brussels. The date would be c 1700- c 1740 or 1750. But I can't even apply
this name to your lace because I can't even tell if it is a part lace, let
alone other structural elements. Isn't there a fragmental photo with more
clarity? (I would personally like to shoot all the museum photographers who
produce this kind of image, and all the curators who treat such photos as
acceptable. I realize I'm being a grump, here.)

Lorelei

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
DevonThein
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 11:04 AM
To: Arachne reply 
Subject: [lace] Identification of Dutch lace needed

There is a puzzling piece in our collection. It is a flower basket. The
cloth work is dense linen stitch. The background is entirely half stitch. I
KNOW that someone has told me that this is some special, recognizable form
of lace.
But, I donb

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RE: [lace] scissors for lace?

[Lorelei Halley]

Susan
Thanks for the info on websites. Mary Corbett has several pages on tambour 
embroidery, a form of lace. She is quite good.
Lorelei
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of 
hottl...@neo.rr.com

Two of my favorite sites are Mary Corbet's Needle 'N Thread & Tricia Nguyen's 
Thistle Threads. Both cover embroidery--soup to nuts! 

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[lace] lace timeline

[Lorelei Halley]

Lorri

Some time ago I wrote up a brief summary of bobbin lace history. It is not
exactly a timeline.

http://lynxlace.com/bobbinlacehistoryoverview.html 

 

Lorelei Halley

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RE: [lace] Walter Evans and Co.'s Mecklenburg thread No. 20

[Lorelei Halley]

Joseph
I have collected some links which might be useful to you.
http://needlelacetalk.ning.com/group/filetlacis 
Lorelei Halley

-Original Message-
Subject: Re: [lace] Walter Evans and Co.'s Mecklenburg thread No. 20
The thread is used in a few old Filet Lacis books. I want to use it to make 
netting and then embroider on it to make "filet lace". I just bought a shuttle 
and gauge set, so now I need to find out what thread I need to use.
Joseph

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RE: [lace] Bucks point

[Lorelei Halley]

Lori
An interesting question. But very difficult to do. The reason is that we
have very few certainties, and the evidence must be evaluated. The only hard
evidence we have is the laces themselves, and portraits painted of
individuals whose life dates are known, by an artist whose life dates are
known.  From this we can construct a tentative timeline of how the fashion
changed, and how the shapes of collars and headdresses resulted in surviving
laces having those shapes. A caveat here is that late in time, fragments of
early laces may be cobbled together into shapes fashionable at the date the
cobbling was done. I have started collecting photos of paintings in an
effort to start this kind of reference online.
https://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/boards/   Go down about 3/4 through
my boards, and that is where the set of photos are, tentatively divided by
time.

While we can't rely on the portraits to exactly reproduce the lace, we can
get a general idea of spiky or dense, the shapes of the edge (deeply
scalloped or nearly straight), floral or geometric.

We cannot rely on most books published before the mid 20th century. We have
to judge whether the writer is a scholar/historian or someone with no
training in how to interpret evidence.  Here is a chart I made some years
ago to try and pin down how influences from one area and era affected
subsequent laces. It looks like sphagetti, or what a cat does to a ball of
string.
http://api.ning.com/files/mTj-BQWRfI3gvX7wkBtthdP5oGSdVjTosLQkjNKXSBuO4arckV
iVm8-BkRQrCYqOq3hveHQ917MdeTcxXWyUuHfGaaO*gvBs/lacehist2.jpg 

Santina Levey identified another possible kind of source to help with
dating. Weavers of high quality, high fashion brocades and velvets sometimes
produced sample books showing the kind of work they could to. If a design in
the pattern book is strongly similar to the design of a particular lace, it
may be reasonable to assume that one was copying the other (in either
direction) to produce laces or fabrics in the current fashion.  But you
would have to go to museums which might have such sample books in their
collections.

One clear time boundary for embroidery on net, or for bobbin part laces
appliqued onto clear net, is the date that the net making machines were
built. But even that date doesn't give us absolute certainties because the
first date a machine capable of the job is built does not mean that the net
was widely available and reliably available. You only set up a workshop when
you know you can get the background net in sufficient quantity all the time.
The latter date is the important one, and it is not absolutely clear.

Thread used is another possible, but we had a discussion on laceioli about
this issue, and it turns out to be problematic. Cotton was mixed with linen
long before purely cotton threads were reliably available.
http://laceioli.ning.com/group/identification-history/forum/topics/general-p
rinciples 

The only way you can get an understanding of the timeline is to view as many
laces as possible (photos, if close up enough, do help a great deal), study
as many portraits as possible (with dates attached).

Studying this question is endlessly fascinating. I know for certain that I
will not get to the end of it in my lifetime.

I spent 6 years in graduate school studying medieval history, so I
understand how historians think and how they use evidence. I also understand
how evidence can be misused. Of course, then I was dealing with written
documents. Lace history uses a different kind of evidence, but the
principles are the same.
Lorelei Halley

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
Lorri Ferguson
Subject: Re: [lace] Bucks point
Has anyone ever made a Time Line of the dates of various laces and/or events
that affected lace and the lace industries?
Lorri Ferguson

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RE: [lace] Picots and rules

[Lorelei Halley]

Halleluyah I agree.
Lorelei

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
Alex Stillwell
Subject: [lace] Picots and rules
My rules of lace making go -
1 You MUST enjoy making it
2 Your lace MUST look as beautiful as you can manage
3 Your lace MUST ne suitable for its purpose, i.e. it must not fall to
pieces if washed or distort if used as a hanging if it was intended for
these purposes
4 You may break any rules except the ones above or make them up new ones,
but do not do it when teacher is watching.
Alex

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RE: [lace] Left or right sewing edge

[Lorelei Halley]

Susie
I learned from Doris Southard's book, and as a result have always worked
with the footside on the left. But if I am trying to follow a Bucks diagram
I may set up in the English manner so my pillow matches the diagram.
Lorelei
---
Just a reminder that Doris Southard's book LESSONS IN BOBBIN LACEMAKING
(DOVER,  1977).  In her introduction she explains that she learned her
lacing skills from books. ... I believe the method she used is called the
Continental Method?

Susie Johnson

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RE: [lace] Footside on left or right?

[Lorelei Halley]

Janice
Interesting theory!
Lorelei

-Original Message-
Subject: [lace] Footside on left or right?

The question of why the footside of yardage lace is either on the right
(mainly English laces) or on the left (mainly European continent laces)
... answer other than the Brits do everything the other way around from
their continental cousins.
So my theory is that when the Mechlin and Lille lacemakers fled to England ,
they either took rubbings of their prickings or allowed rubbings to be taken
from their prickings in their new country and the quickest and easiest way
to make up these designs was to change the side of the footside.
Janis in South Africa

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[lace] snow art

[Lorelei Halley]

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Avantgardens.org/photos/?tab=album
 _id=1704517309562023 

 

Lorelei

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[lace] Ipswich

[Lorelei Halley]

I have been collecting photos of laces for lace identification purposes. I
have a pinterest board with some of Karen Thompson's photos. If I remember
correctly they were originally posted on facebook.

https://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/ipswich-bobbin-lace/ 

Lorelei Halley

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RE: [lace] Please Share Lace Experiences and Questions

[Lorelei Halley]

I think so, too.
Lorelei

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
N.A. Neff
Subject: Re: [lace] Please Share Lace Experiences and Questions

One other thought: I'm finding some of the Arachne-like discussion is now
happening on Facebook, especially in the group Bobbin Lace MakersNancy
Connecticut, USA

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[lace] Ipswich pillow

[Lorelei Halley]

Here is a direct link to the article and photos. It is a long url, and you
will have to paste it together.

http://api.ning.com/files/dsLPsteu3YwIHRdbk4JpFXXwvn2aELu9broqmoU5sYRNCckoBj
A0KeuVOjaJBGf1CMmyvx3GVS24aqvFL*urmZz2C0gcHCib/JeriAmesIpswichPillow.pdf

Lorelei

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[lace] Ipswich pillow

[Lorelei Halley]

I have posted it on laceioli. Here is the link. It is there as a pdf file.
Text in red.  If the copyright holder objects, I will  take it down.

http://laceioli.ning.com/forum/topics/ipswich-pillow 

 

Lorelei Halley   laceioli.ning.com 

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RE: [lace] Bucks point - on Ipswich-style Pillow at Smithsonian

[Lorelei Halley]

Devon
You could post it on laceioli.ning. Since I set it up as a public site, even
non-members can see everything that is posted. Then post a link here.
Lorelei

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
DevonThein
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 10:44 AM
To: N.A. Neff ; Jeri Ames 
Cc: Karen Thompson ; Arachne 
Subject: RE: [lace] Bucks point - on Ipswich-style Pillow at Smithsonian

Nancy writes:
I don't have any
place to post something myself that would be easy to get to, and I don't
think Devon does either.

Actually, I am the editor of the IOLI facebook site, so I could post the
photos on there. This is available to everyone who is on facebook, which is
quite a lot of people, although I am not sure how many are arachnids. The
photos in the NELG newsletter are accompanied by text written by Jeri, to
which she holds copyright. Technically, copyright of the format is the NELGb

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[lace] tells

[Lorelei Halley]

I found this url on Facebook. I can't remember if anybody has already posted
it.

http://torch.ox.ac.uk/themes/tellings-reconstructing-repertoire-songs-used-e
nglish-lace-schools 

 

Lorelei

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RE: [lace] Rosaline perle

[Lorelei Halley]

Jeri
Here is a link to the book list for duchesse and Rosaline on laceioli. The
bottom part of the list are the Rosaline books.
http://laceioli.ning.com/group/duchesse/page/6475898:Page:38 
Lorelei

Sent: Friday, October 20, 2017 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [lace] Rosaline perle

Dear Susan, Please provide the title and author of the book. B Jeri Ames 

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RE: [lace] Rosaline perle

[Lorelei Halley]

Susan
A rolled bundle also plays an important part in Withof, and many pieces start 
with a bundle that defines a central vein in a leaf.   And Cantu (called punto 
Venezia in Italian) uses a variation on the bundle to move threads around 
internally as the lace proceeds. Both Duchesse and Honiton use a rolled bundle 
to move threads from the bottom of one leaf to the top of the next. They don't 
exactly start with a bundle but use it frequently.
Here are some links to photos of Honiton, Duchesse and Withof which contain the 
rolled bundle.
http://lynxlace.com/images/lace597bv.JPG 
http://lynxlace.com/images/lace169leaf.JPG 
http://lynxlace.com/images-h-det-diag/lace726edgroll.JPG In this one the 
magenta lines point to the rolled bundle.
https://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/cantu-punto-venezia/ 
In terms of why a lace starts with a bundle -- in Withof I think it is mostly 
an aesthetic thing. The sculptured effect is part of the design definition. In 
Honiton and Duchesse the purpose is to move threads to where they are needed, 
without the necessity of cutting threads off and starting again with new. This 
gives a better stability. But the sculptural effect is also used aesthetically. 
In Canto-punto-Venezia it also functions to move threads to where they are 
needed without cutting off frequently.
Lorelei

Sent: Friday, October 20, 2017 3:01 PM
Subject: [lace] Rosaline perle

I would like to have a better understanding of why a lacemaker would start out 
with a rolled clump of threads!  And is this the only lace that starts with a 
bundleSusan Hottle USA 

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[lace] Spanish lace makers

[Lorelei Halley]

Here are some links to facebook sites, Spanish language. For some of these
you have to join in order to see the photos.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/291232274411760/photos/ 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/307447226277549/ 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/286640145093769/ 

 

Lorelei

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RE: [lace] Spanish lace makers

[Lorelei Halley]

Cynthia
Yes, I'm aware of that,and  am a member of it. But it doesn't have anywhere
near the membership or collection of photos that the old google group did.
When it gets older it might.
Lorelei

-Original Message-
From: Cynce Williams [mailto:cyncewilli...@sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2017 5:38 PM
To: loreleiterry Halley <lhal...@bytemeusa.com>
Cc: cynce williams <cyncewilli...@sbcglobal.net>; Arachne.com
<lace@arachne.com>
Subject: Re: [lace] Spanish lace makers

Lorelei,

There's an international group on Facebook called Encajeras_Bolilleras .

I think they're mainly Spanish, but there's some Russian and eastern
European work, too, Some of it's really wonderful.

Cynthia


On Oct 8, 2017, at 3:32 PM, Lorelei Halley <lhal...@bytemeusa.com> wrote:

> Devon
> 
> A few days ago you asked about Spanish lace makers and what they were
doing.
> There had been a large group on google with many Spanish lace makers 
> participating. A huge number of photos were posted. Unfortunately 
> google decided to cancel their "groups" feature, I think because 
> facebook was taking all the traffic. The photos may still be there, 
> but under the names of the participating members, instead of a group. 
> I was actively using that group to keep track of what Spanish lace 
> makers were doing. And I am very frustrated that the group no longer
exists.
> 
> 
> 
> What I remember is that they were doing torchon mostly (not 
> surprising), but also a lot of Cluny type laces (including continental 
> guipure = Cluny with floral or naturalistic designs) and tape laces of 
> various kinds. Some which were a lot like the Italian, but also some 
> Milanese, Russian, Idrija, and of course Hinojosa. There was some 
> Bruges, but more Duchesse (still a small number, but more than we find 
> on laceioli. Point ground was rare. What surprised me was a fair 
> amount of embroidered tulle, both needle run and tambour. They seem to 
> be doing more of that than any other group of lacemakers in the world. 
> They also do a lot of drawn thread embroidery (threads removed in one 
> direction and needle weaving and other embellishments).
> 
> 
> 
> The internet is wonderful, but when stuff is GONE, it is REALLY GONE.
> 
> Lorelei
> 
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> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to 
> arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

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[lace] Spanish lace makers

[Lorelei Halley]

Devon

A few days ago you asked about Spanish lace makers and what they were doing.
There had been a large group on google with many Spanish lace makers
participating. A huge number of photos were posted. Unfortunately google
decided to cancel their "groups" feature, I think because facebook was
taking all the traffic. The photos may still be there, but under the names
of the participating members, instead of a group. I was actively using that
group to keep track of what Spanish lace makers were doing. And I am very
frustrated that the group no longer exists.

 

What I remember is that they were doing torchon mostly (not surprising), but
also a lot of Cluny type laces (including continental guipure = Cluny with
floral or naturalistic designs) and tape laces of various kinds. Some which
were a lot like the Italian, but also some Milanese, Russian, Idrija, and of
course Hinojosa. There was some Bruges, but more Duchesse (still a small
number, but more than we find on laceioli. Point ground was rare. What
surprised me was a fair amount of embroidered tulle, both needle run and
tambour. They seem to be doing more of that than any other group of
lacemakers in the world. They also do a lot of drawn thread embroidery
(threads removed in one direction and needle weaving and other
embellishments).

 

The internet is wonderful, but when stuff is GONE, it is REALLY GONE.

Lorelei

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[lace] ghost pillow

[Lorelei Halley]

I use one also, for Flanders & Binche. I couldn't do those complex designs
without one. And losing track of where I am is the primary reason. Like
Nancy, I like to call it the "voodoo board". I think of it as murdering the
design invented by a wicked sorcerer. And who is going to be defeated, me or
the design.

Lorelei

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RE: [lace] Lace samples

[Lorelei Halley]

Helen
I have lots of these little sample strips. I stick them into 3 ring binders,
sorted by structural type and stylistic group. (Cluny & Bedfordshire in one,
Flanders Binche and Val in another) I keep them in this fashion so I have
examples to show students when they have questions about various types. So
far I have only 1 piece where I cut it off the pillow before fiishing it. It
is a 20 inch length of a Cluny design. My original intention was to make a
nightgown or dress with a square neck and use this insertion to decorate it.
But I've gotten wider, far too much wider, so I don't make clothes anymore.
No point in decorating an elephant. I'm still trying to figure out what to
do with it.
Lorelei

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of H
M Clarke
Subject: [lace] Lace samples

I'm wondering what you all do with your lace samples? 

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RE: [lace] Fw: Sad News

[Lorelei Halley]

Sue
Thanks for the information. She was too young, much too young. She made a
very great contribution.
Lorelei Halley

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
Sue Babbs
Subject: [lace] Fw: Sad News
I have just received this message.  Many of you will own a copy of Santana
Leveyb

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RE: [lace] Lepovka Lace

[Lorelei Halley]

Glad to hear about those books. Didn't know there were any. Author?
Lorelei

Subject: Re: [lace] Lepovka Lace
two lace books related to tape laces in Lepoglava in Croatia which I
acquired from Susan Wenzel's shop before she sold her business 'Lacy Susan'.
I just checked the new owner's site and both books are still shown there.
They are 'Tape Laces of Lepoglava- techniques and patterns' and 'Tape Laces
of Lepoglava-new patterns'. 
Vicki in Maryland, USA

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RE: [lace] Lepovka Lace

[Lorelei Halley]

Mary
This pinboard has some photos. You will have to look at the descriptions
under each photo. Maybe half dozen are Lepoglava. I think you mean
Lepoglava, Croatian bobbin lace.
https://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/modern-part-lace/ 
This link will show you comments on laceioli regarding Lepoglava.
http://laceioli.ning.com/main/search/search?q=Lepoglava 
http://www.lepoglavska-cipka.hr/en/  There is a photo of a book cover.
http://www.cipkarskodrustvodanicabresler.hr/ 
Knowledge of this lace in the rest of the world is so recent, there may not
be any books.
Lorelei

From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
mary carey
Subject: [lace] Lepovka Lace
Am planning to teach lace to a Croatian born friend and wonder if there are
any books available with references to Lepovka lace
Mary Carey

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RE: [lace] IOLI Convention photos on Flickr

[Lorelei Halley]

Arlene
Thanks for posting the wonderful photos.
Lorelei

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[lace] missing emails

[Lorelei Halley]

Those of you who are checking the archives to find missed posts - I have
noticed what appeared to be missing posts. But when I clicked on DATE, which
causes the software to list the emails strictly by date and time, then all
the missing ones showed up in order. Try that and see if it works.

Lorelei

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RE: [lace] Lace ID (Susan H's question)

[Lorelei Halley]

I think Sally is right -- the designer/creator used whatever techniques
pleased her, and it doesn't fit into a particular niche. Also I do now see
the needle lace filling stitches inside the loops made by the narrow braid.
Lorelei

From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
Sally Jenkins
Subject: [lace] Lace ID (Susan H's question)
Perhaps the designer/creator used various techniques, and the entire piece
does not fit any one designation
Sally in western Oregon, looking at blue skies today

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RE: [lace] lace ID?

[Lorelei Halley]

Bev

As I understand it, Romanian point lace has a tape made by crochet. But the
empty spaces between the tapes are filled with needle lace stitches. This
piece has no needle lace stitches.

Lorelei



From: Bev Walker [mailto:walker.b...@gmail.com]

Susan and Lorelei, Bunches of grapes with the vine around the outside I've
decided!

Only a semi-confident guess it is RPL. It has that chunky, solid, unctuous
appearance. Hopefully someone will confirm/deny.

Bev

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RE: [lace] lace ID?

[Lorelei Halley]

Susan
An interesting piece. That wide outer border tape is something used in 
something called "Bruges crochet". But I don't think it actually has anything 
to do with Bruges. The Irish crochet elements are very interesting, especially 
the maple leaf shaped ones.
Lorelei

From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of 
hottl...@neo.rr.com

If anyone has an opinion as to its origin, I would love to know.  Susan Hottle 
USA 

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RE: [lace] Re: question

[Lorelei Halley]

My understanding is that the terms are used differently in the U.S. and in
Britain.
U.S.  Britain
Braidplait
Tape braid
(for a narrow woven band, machine made or hand made)

When I write about things that Include those elements I have taken to using
the phrases braid/plait   and tape/braid in an attempt at clarity. I don't
think we will ever convert one batch of lace makers into adopting the other
batch's terminology.
Lorelei

From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
AGlez
Subject: Re: [lace] Re: question

I also ask myself the same question. Can somebody confirm if "plait" is more
often used in the UK, and "braid" is more used in the States? At least this
is what I always thought...
Antje GonzC!lez, Spain
www.vueltaycruz.es

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