RE: [lace] Re: Pricking on the pillow
Hi everyone I'm all for labour-saving steps - I seldom pre-prick a pattern, but if I do, it is when the pricking is in place on the pillow. My pillows are of straw or ethafoam - but only occasionally I make a pattern more than once. Before Christmas I made a half dozen bangles from the same pattern, and I hadn't made a very sturdy copy of the pattern to begin with, but it and the pillow held up. What I did notice was the pillow *covering* was showing some distress where pins had been placed repetitively. It is due to be replaced anyway. I don't see the *need* to pre-prick a pattern - it would seem to be a holdover from the days when parchment was the material of necessity. After the draughtsman had drawn the pattern, he or someone else would prick the pattern. The holes would be punctured with the parchment position on a tray of lead, so I've read. Nice that we can choose to pre-prick or not ;) I am now scheming to do multiple bookmarks - from the same pattern, which is pointed at both ends, will make them continuously, never throw out or add in bobbins once I've started (except to change colours) - the points will end up as bundles. I'm going to work on an ethafoam roller. (does this project sound daft?) -- bye for now Bev in Sooke, BC (west coast of Canada) where the promised melt arrived and the place is green again. Today's tasks do not involve bookmarks, how dull g - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: Pricking on the pillow
In a message dated 07/01/2004 18:00:33 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't see the *need* to pre-prick a pattern Time to add my tuppence worth. The *need* depends very much on the lace you are making. It is relatively easy to prick-as-you-go when you are doing lace of the type you were talking about in your post. The holes are usually well spaced, and if one is slightly out of line it probably won't notice. On the other hand, for Julie who is working her way through Bucks, where the pin holes are close together and multitudinous, to try to prick as you go is very much more difficult and has the potential for disaster, because it is so easy to miss a hole half hidden by a gimp line, or by mis-pricking slightly through all the threads to have one hole where two should be. Also you can work this many-pin lace much more fluently if you can just put the pin in the hole. If you time how long it takes to prick a hole in a flat pricking on a board, about half a second I would reckon, and compare that to accurately finding the hole in the gap between pin and thread, trying to accurately prick with a pin or reaching yet again for your pricker and then picking up and placing the pin you'll get the idea. It only feels as if you are saving time. I have just finished a couple of bits of Milanese which I pricked before I worked them - and kept wondering why I had. Having studied Withof worked on an undotted outline where you put the pin where you need it, I now enjoy doing that, and in Withof and similar laces it is accepted that you will prick as you go. In Milanese sometimes you need the holes opposite each other and sometimes as a zig-zag depending on the braid chosen, so I was making new holes where I needed them because I had revised my plans as I worked. When the holes are close to start with, there's not much of a gap to have second thoughts in. So yes, as I said above, this way placing pins can be slower but if you're not sure where you are going to want the pins it can be a lot easier and I don't believe you do *need* to prick first. Picking up on the thread about the angle of the hole, I was taught that the pricker should be held as near vertically as possible to get the most accurate pricking. I think that when I am pricking I am concentrating on accuracy without worrying at which angle I should be pricking at. And although I follow the basic 'edge pins out and middle pins back' rule, the pins around design features go at a slightly different angle to those that are 'just' ground, to give the workers more support for tensioning. I don't think I could cope with working all that out as I prick but it just happens as I lace. Jacquie - Tempted by the thoughts of starting a new bit of lace and at the same time bitten by my conscience to work on a UFO? - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] Re: Pricking on the pillow
From: Bev Walker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm all for labour-saving steps - I seldom pre-prick a pattern, but if I do, it is when the pricking is in place on the pillow. There are times it becomes pretty important. For example, I find it very hard to get pins accurately placed on roller pillows, if the pattern isn't pre-pricked. Between difficulty seeing the dots (with pins and threads crowding around) and the tendency for the pin to slide down the front of the roller instead of digging in exactly where you pointed it, pins can be off by as much as half the pin-spacing. This can be pretty obvious in ground, and can distort the lines of figures/shapes. Even on cookie or block pillows, fine (narrow-spaced) lace doesn't give you much room for fudging, and the fine lace is also that much more crowded with pins and threads. As lazy as I am, I nearly always pre-prick (or regret it when laziness or hurriedness won) at least the first few inches. Then I start the pattern and prick some more when I approach the end of the pinholes. My productivity is not so high that I'm in danger of wearing out my pillows by pricking on them, so I will continue the practice despite the dire warnings of some. Robin P. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: Pricking on the pillow
Hi all Further to the *need* to pre-prick - I do Bucks, and with fine thread, and I don't bother to pre-prick an entire pattern - it is too hard on my hands. I have a brand of stationery's copy card that is firm enough to be a pricking, and soft enough to permit pinholes as I go, or prick ahead with it in place on the pillow if I want - sometimes doing an inch head is good, especially if the fingers are getting sore from pushing in pins (yes have tried various paddings and methods to protect fingertips - prefer not to go there in this message,) and the fingers like the change to grasping the pricking tool (a lovely one aluminum I bought from Shirley when Ends 'n' Odds was in business - miss you Shirley!) . I appreciate totally that many lacemakers prefer to prick their patterns first, on a surface of choice, and yes, if the pinholes are close together, it would be advised if a person is concerned about misplacing a pin. This doesn't bother me for most laces - but Honiton - definitely yes I do pre-prick a Honiton pattern, because of the very heavy card I use for it - and I would use lighter card (and not pre-prick) except the heavy card is better for doing the sewings with needlepin. I find a scrap of styro and carefully prick the pattern on that. It is a test of will - I really don't like doing it this way. So I concede there is an example of needing to pre-prick - because of the card material. There is another argument of course, for those lacemakers who rely on the holes for tactile reference as they work. A Bucks hint: I've learned to skip pinning areas of ground - the lacing is less tedious if you don't bother with pins; same with Torchon ground - just mind the tension. -- bye for now Bev in Sooke, BC (west coast of Canada) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] Re: Pricking on the pillow
Actually, now this shows how I haven't made any lace for two months, I got my big pillow out that I was blogging on and thought about what I had said about having it prepricked as it was so big so I could work out where the two halves should be. Here is another reason for pre-pricking if you make lace like I do and before you all start shouting I'm not implying that I make it better or worse than anyone else but this is just an observation from when I've made lace with other lacemakers. I make lace very fast. I am ambidextrous when making lace and move bobbins with both hands at the same time and when making similar lace of the same width, style no of bobbins as other lacemakers of the same experience I make it roughly half as fast again as they make it. If I had to stop to prick the pattern it would slow me down considerable. I did put up a stuck and filmed pattern once for a Springett miniature fan and pricked as I went - this slowed my lacemaking down to the point that I had to stop and prick all the rest of the pattern. The lace group that I first joined used to run Saturday workshops on things that were craft but not lace related, as a bit of fun. One of these was a white embroidery course and the lady that taught it was fantastic, a great teacher and also a great lacemaker and during the day I said that I didn't like pricking patterns but had to because they slowed down my lacemaking. She said that all lacemaking activities were a meditative thing to enjoy and that if you looked at it as that then you would enjoy it all. I thought this was a bit suss until I started doing yoga where you went through the cycles of movements and lost yourself in the repitition. OK, so I still hate mounting lace, but ever since when I'm a bit stressed, I pick a pattern and lock myself away in my bedroom with a great CD on or the afternoon play on the radio and just enjoy the repeativeness of the rythmic pricking. I picked this up quickly as it is very much how I make lace - I don't think as I do it, I just make the lace according to how the pattern feels, which works as well for honiton and Bucks as for torchon. Whether you prick through a copy then draw in the pattern or stick and film then prick it doesn't matter, it's the act of loosing yourself in it that is important. ...erm ... just read what I have written and now I think I sound absolutely barmy - but I WORKS FOR ME. Liz x Panza, Robin wrote: As lazy as I am, I nearly always pre-prick (or regret it when laziness or hurriedness won) at least the first few inches. Then I start the pattern and prick some more when I approach the end of the pinholes. My productivity is not so high that I'm in danger of wearing out my pillows by pricking on them, so I will continue the practice despite the dire warnings of some. Robin P. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] Re: Pricking on the pillow
From: Karen Butler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Similarly, the inexpensive polystyrene pillow I bought to try Honiton developed a hole in the centre. It is still usable, with pieces of green baize packing the hole, but as I've since bought a traditional Honiton pillow, it is only used occasionally. This is from re-using the *area* instead of re-using the *holes*. When you prick on the pillow, the pin goes into the same hole. When you do a series of motifs on the same portion of a pillow, you're putting pins into *approximately* the same place, which damages the area around the last set of pinholes. Do that often enough, and you've got overlapping pinholes. But if you prick on the pillow and *leave the pattern there* to work, you're using the same pinholes, not putting pins *next to* former pinholes. That's why it's not more wear to the pillow. Incidentally, if you prick vertically on a pillow, and pins are angled back (and to the side at edges), the holes made in the pillow by pricking would not conform with the subsequet pin hole. Why would you prick differently than your intended pin-directions? I prick the edges outward and the pins slide right into the slots I made with the pricker. Robin P. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: Pricking on the pillow
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] carnegiemuseums.org, Panza, Robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes , you're using the same pinholes, not putting pins *next to* former pinholes. That's why it's not more wear to the pillow. So have you never noticed that if you use the same length of pattern several times, on a polystyrene pillow, (either moving up on a cookie or flat pillow, or using a roller pillow for yardage) without moving the pricking that the holes get larger each time and eventually don't hold the pin correctly? - this is also why prickings need replacing after being used over and over again. If you are only pricking a pattern and making one motif, then maybe the wear won't show up as being that great. However, when you are making petals for flowers, or, as I did with my Giles dog bookmark, forty odd of the same pattern to raise funds for charity, then you certainly notice the pinholes getting larger. Why would you prick differently than your intended pin-directions? It may help to prick in the intended pin direction, but few of us, I expect, are uniform in the angle of every single pin we place - after all, none of us are machines! We were taught that if we needed to use the pillow for an emergency pricking board, to use the bottom (flat) surface of the pillow to prick and the top (domed) surface to make lace on. Personally, I use a cork board - they do wear out, after a few years, in lace terms, but then make excellent scratching boards for the cat! -- Jane Partridge - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] Re: Pricking on the pillow
From: Tamara P. Duvall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You don't view yor pricking from the same angle when you prick on a corkboard set flat on a table and when you prick on a pillow; you're less likely to be *accurate* when pricking on a pillow. I'm not convinced this is necessarily so. May vary from lacemaker to lacemaker. A cookie pillow, for example, isn't all that different from a cork board. Nor are some people all that super-careful when pricking on a board (cork or otherwise). I agree it may be a little harder with a roller, especially a small roller, but not necessarily a flatter pillow. A well-made pillow is likely to be a good deal harder than a corkboard; This one I whole-heartedly disagree with. My good pillows are *not* harder than cork, although some of the cheaper ones may be. Also, you can put the layers of waxed paper (to make your pricking needle slide in and out easily, without getting a wax build-up) under a pricking and over a corkboard more easily than under a pricking that's on a pillow. I find it pretty easy to slip wax paper under the unused portion of the pricking. And you can always just include the wax paper under the pattern when you mount the pattern on the pillow. What harm is there if the wax paper stays there? The covering fabric and the pillow itself (especially those made from different foams) take enough beating from having the the pins stuck in and pulled out during lacemaking; it's unkind to treat them as pricking boards in addition to that :) But the pin goes exactly into the hole made by the pricker--the pattern hole is exactly aligned with the pricker-made hole in the foam, so that's no wear. R - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: Pricking on the pillow
Robin wrote: But the pin goes exactly into the hole made by the pricker--the pattern hole is exactly aligned with the pricker-made hole in the foam, so that's no wear. From experience with fine lace - I would be wary of this, particularly on modern pillows. I recently made a short length of narrow Bucks Point, (footside 13 holes to the inch) on my table cloth pillow - which left a very worn strip. Bucks Point will now be confined to my straw pillow. Similarly, the inexpensive polystyrene pillow I bought to try Honiton developed a hole in the centre. It is still usable, with pieces of green baize packing the hole, but as I've since bought a traditional Honiton pillow, it is only used occasionally. Incidentally, if you prick vertically on a pillow, and pins are angled back (and to the side at edges), the holes made in the pillow by pricking would not conform with the subsequet pin hole. Karen, In Coventry. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: Pricking on the pillow
Tamara, The thank you was for putting me up for 2 months in her flat whilst I was working away from home and now, come to think of it, as I also paid her rent, no it was too much and I was conned but as I had made the lace for my wedding dress which never got made at least I don't have to look at it!! Liz Tamara P. Duvall wrote: I had given her 4 metres of handmade lace as a thank you A thank you for what? For removing herself from your orbit? Might have been worth *something*, I suppose, but not 4 meters of lace; not even if it was a piece of 8-pair lace... - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: Pricking on the pillow
Ok, here are my reasons - 1) pricking as you go damages your pillow as you have to use more force to go through the card and my cork board is cheaper and more replaceable than my pillows 2) When you work unusual patterns such as ovals on a block pillow, if you don't have all the pattern how on earth can you work out how to place it on the pillow 3) I've been making a very large piece that is symetrical and therefore, by pricking through two lots of card I pricked the whole thing out in half the time 4) when working a long straight piece or a square, you can to the same as #3 by pricking the two halves in one go. Look, if you don't like pricking then photocopy, stick and film but don't get up set then if the finished piece doesn't quite have the sharp edges that those who prick first get as it is not easy to accurately put in the pins that way And - if like me and Tamara you don't like winding the bobbins get a bobbin winder Here's a story - the last time I was teaching lace the woman I was teaching pulled a face and said that she didn't like spangling. So, trying to encourage her and because I had some time spare I offered to spangle some of the bobbins so that she had enough to start making lace and had some to copy when she spangled them herself. Then she said that she found pricking the patterns hard on her hands - I've taught people with arthritus before and can sympathise - so I let he use one of my patterns that was already pricked out Then she said that she couldn't work the bobbin winder she had bought, so I wound some bobbins on it to show her how, but she kept having problems with it and in the end, when I'd finished demonstrating how to use it I'd wound them all Then she said that she couldn't follow me starting it off so could I have a go ... I looked at her and said, 'so exactly which thiing about making lace was it that you actually wanted to do?' She replied 'ah, there's two things, sitting at the reenactment with my pillow so people can see how clever I am and wearing it' I managed to say, straight faced, 'were you actually intending to make any then?' That was the last lesson that I gave her as she felt I wasn't supportive enough (I thought it wasn't because I wouldn't make the lace for her) and I understand that she got her boyfriend's mum to teach her the basics and she swans around the reenactments with the same piece of lace that she started with. The only thing that really hurt was that I had given her 4 metres of handmade lace as a thank you and it was being passed off as her own work. Moral of the story - we all have bits of the process we hate - me it's mounting the stuff, and we moan about them but we still love doing the craft but if you hate doing it as much as this woman did go find something else to do. Have fun Liz Tamara P. Duvall wrote: On Jan 2, 2004, at 13:10, Antje González wrote: Why do you prick the whole pattern all at once? I start pricking a few centimeters, then I work until the pricked holes are finished, prick again a few centimeters, continue working... This makes the whole process more relaxing. I've often been tempted to do it the same way; pricking and winding bobbins are *not* on my list of favourite activities related to lacemaking, so it would be nice to thin it out and fit in some of the favourite bits (like moving bobbins) in-between the less favourite ones. snipped - Tamara P Duvall - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: Pricking on the pillow
Just loved your story, Liz. One of my best is when we were demonstrating lacemaking at an exhibition, one lady hovered for ages, then asked if lace bobbins were sold in John Lewis (a well known English department store). We said it was possible, but not likely, and offered her lace supply and teacher's addresses. Oh, no, it's all right. came the reply I'm sure they must do. I'll go and buy A PAIR and teach myself. A tad confused with knitting maybe but I have idled away many pleasant minutes since, wondering how she got on! Jacquie - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: Pricking on the pillow
On Jan 3, 2004, at 6:56, Liz Beecher wrote: Look, if you don't like pricking then photocopy, stick and film That's what I pre-prick -- a film-covered sandwich, with the photocopied pattern as the middle layer... At the beginning (in '89) I did try to prick through a pattern and then put in all the markings -- honest Injun, I *did* try... And messed up every time when drawing in the markings; all that sea of pinholes confused me no end. Since you put the markings with a waterproof pen, the mistakes were permanent. Which meant back to the pricking board and starting from scratch. Bleech; it got stale very fast :) So then I'd draw the pattern (in pencil) on a piece of graph paper (became an avid collector of different;y-sized graphs g), erase and correct the mistakes to my heart's content, draw over the the correct lines with a pen, tint the pattern with a lightly-coloured crayon, then slap a bit of clear Contact over it. The whole thing was flimsy, so I started to glue it to a piece of cardboard. Thus re-inventing *the first* wheel of my lacemaking career (there've been many since; it is specified in my will that my tombstone should say: she's re-invented the wheel; frequently and with zeal g)... When the town got its first commercial photocopying place, it was like Christmas in July, for me :) And - if like me and Tamara you don't like winding the bobbins get a bobbin winder I do have a winder, but half the time it's not worth pulling out; there has to be more than half a yard of thread per bobbin needed before I bother... What I do to break the monotony is wind a few pairs and hang them in, then work as far as I can, then wind a few more and hang them in and work some more. In essence, I'm having my veg and my desert at the same time :) But there's no such relief possible when pricking (unless you break the monotony of that with winding bobbins g); you have to finish it before you get to the desert of making the lace. I don't prick through two parts at once (even if they're perfectly symmetrical) because I worry (with reason, as an experiment had proved g) about not being prcise enough; my needle skews a bit, and the hole is no longer through the centre of the dot, but on the edge of it. OTOH, I never prick all 4 sides of a hankie-with-corners, either; I prick two separate quarters of it, and alternate them on the pillow to work. The upside of that is that I can do one quarter and start working sooner... I do the second quarter in bits -- a bit every time I run into a problem on a pillow which needs thinking to resolve. As pricking doesn't require much mental effort, the two go well togeter and, usually, the second quarter is ready by the time I need it :) Here's a story VBG A classic case of what DH would call and how are you fixed for spit? (reference to someone who borrows a cigarette, then a match, then an ashtray, then a fan to dissipate the smoke... I had given her 4 metres of handmade lace as a thank you A thank you for what? For removing herself from your orbit? Might have been worth *something*, I suppose, but not 4 meters of lace; not even if it was a piece of 8-pair lace... we all have bits of the process we hate - me it's mounting the stuff, I hate mounting too :) There are even times when I hate working on the pillow (if it's a piece of yardage and longer than, say, a yard or so; by then it's all demystified and I start making mistakes through lack of attention). But the rush of coming up with an idea, working it out -- at least partways -- on paper, getting the possible knotty technical points solved in pre-sampling, then getting the magnum opus on the pillow (choosing the threads -- heaven g) and off it (triumphantly and with much chest pounding. Thereafter it can get stashed into the back of a drawer; who cares? g)... That rush is unbeatable... Tamara P Duvall Lexington, Virginia, USA Formerly of Warsaw, Poland http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: Pricking on the pillow
On Jan 2, 2004, at 13:10, Antje González wrote: Why do you prick the whole pattern all at once? I start pricking a few centimeters, then I work until the pricked holes are finished, prick again a few centimeters, continue working... This makes the whole process more relaxing. I've often been tempted to do it the same way; pricking and winding bobbins are *not* on my list of favourite activities related to lacemaking, so it would be nice to thin it out and fit in some of the favourite bits (like moving bobbins) in-between the less favourite ones. But. 1) You don't view yor pricking from the same angle when you prick on a corkboard set flat on a table and when you prick on a pillow; you're less likely to be *accurate* when pricking on a pillow. Might not matter much if your pins are spaced widely apart but, in a floral Bucks piece (as had been mentioned), where pins are very close together (and lots of them), it's a different story. 2) A well-made pillow is likely to be a good deal harder than a corkboard; depending on the kind of pricker you use, pricking on a pillow might mean more wear and tear on your pricking hand. Also, you can put the layers of waxed paper (to make your pricking needle slide in and out easily, without getting a wax build-up) under a pricking and over a corkboard more easily than under a pricking that's on a pillow. 3) The covering fabric and the pillow itself (especially those made from different foams) take enough beating from having the the pins stuck in and pulled out during lacemaking; it's unkind to treat them as pricking boards in addition to that :) So. Every time I'm tempted to prick on the pillow, I think about the above, go fix myself a cup of tea, go smoke a cigarette, read a few pages from a book, wind a few pairs of bobbins... And go back to the corkboard :) - Tamara P Duvall Lexington, Virginia, USA Formerly of Warsaw, Poland http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
