[lace] Date for Bucks point
This little snippet about Toender lace changing to tulle ground cttt. Charlotte Paludan. The Museum of Decorative Art, 2000. Published in CIETA Lace group newsletter number 31 in September 2000 on Toender Lace. ‘At the end of the 18th century, the centre of fashion shifted from the Flemish towns to the northern French town of Lille, where the open, gossamer-light twist net gave lace a totally new appearance. At the same time, this lace was inexpensive, since the twist net could be produced quickly, leading to a sudden upsurge in the demand for lace. People in Toender were quick to adapt and soon Lille lace came to dominate production in Toender.’ Still no closer than at the end of the 18th century. -Karen - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] date for bucks point
Hi Devon Thank you for your comments. Have you checked your Mechlin to see if it is English or Continental? I would be very interested to know. Regarding the dated piece you mention. Is it Lille or Bucks Point? You can use the same criterion as for distinguishing between English and Continental Mechlin. Whichever it is the date will be the same. How reliable is the dealer regarding dating? Certainly over here I have seen many strange claims made by dealers, some not even able to classify the type of lace correctly. Yes please, I would like to see it. I have never heard of Ning, what is it? Blow the dust Alex - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] date for Bucks point
Thank you Alex and Devon for chiming in on the question of beginning of the point ground laces. Devon, it would be interesting to see your pictures. It seems reasonable that the lighter, airier fashion in the late 1700s with tiny sprigs lent itself to the double thread ground c-t-t-t as opposed to the 4-thread grounds like Droschel, Mechlin and Valenciennes. Santina Levey: Lace A History, p. 71: "...the eighteenth century saw a steady reduction in the density of pattern" but says nothing about the construction. The first mention of simple, twist net ground is Fig 352 showing Lille lace from ca.1800. Judyth Gwynne writes in The Illustrated Dictionary of Lace p. 32 about blonde: Laces with fond simple ground (1754-93)... with no reference to where that information came from. The price of linen certainly also could have contributed to using less thread, as well as the beginnings of the machine made point ground like nets. Hannover and Eslykke both say the point ground Tønder laces are imitating Arras lace around 1800, but I cannot find reference to Arras lace history. Karen - currently in Washington DC, where my lace books reside. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] date for Bucks point
Hi Alex: I tried to find an answer, too, but like you I had little luck. The French book “Dentelles Normandes: La Blonde de Caen” is a history book and has a lot of information about Blonde lace, but the emphasis is on business, not on technique, though there are a few places where they mention the grounds. What I found interesting was that when most of us read of Blonde lace, we tend to think of a point ground - ie, C-T-T-T ground lace, but that seems to be an error - from this book I learned that blonde lace can have any of several different grounds, including the ones that we see in the Ipswich lace book; Paris ground and a closed-pinned Alencon ground. This book has one or two photos of laces, labelled as 18th century, that do seem to have point ground - but they don’t say exactly when in the 18th century the laces were made (it could have been 1799, for example) and without a clear closeup I can’t say for sure that the laces do have point ground. The other information I was able to find regards the history of Lille lace - “Leibenauer Point de Lille-Spitzen” by Mariet Haarmann and Erdmute Wesenberg. Lille lace uses point ground, and in the history section of that book they mention the rise of the industry coming at the beginning of the 19th century. Both books describe the difficulties resulting from the first machine was made to create a plain tulle net (1768), which used the C-T-T-T form. Embroidering machine-made tulle was much easier and faster than making lace from scratch, and the traditional laces suffered as a result. The “Lille” book starts at the beginning of the 19th century; apparently the price of linen rose by about 30% in 1803 and the book says that is why the lacemakers at Lille began using the C-T-T-T ground (called “fond clair” or “Point de Lille”). The do mention that “fond clair” had been used earlier, to make blonde and Chantilly lace. However, once again, they don’t give any dates. So, gathering this all together, it seems to me that what we call Point Ground was used in the 18th century to make blonde and chantilly lace, but it was just one of several different grounds that could be used to make blonde lace. (I don’t know about Chantilly). In the later years of the 18th century the demand for lace decreased with the rise of machine-made nets and the used of tulle and of gauze fabrics as a base for embroidered laces. In the early 1800s the price of linen thread also rose substantially and so it was more economical and faster to make point ground than the older grounds. At this point the Lille lace industry began, point ground lace became very fashionable, and over the next 50 years this type of lace spread to Beveren (Belgium), Buckinghamshire, Denmark, Switzerland, and several other countries. Best I can do. Now to get my day started. Adele West Vancouver, BC (west coast of Canada) > I saw the posting requesting information about the date point ground started > and have been waiting to see the response. Unfortunately there has net been > even one, I was hoping someone else would come up with something as I have > found no reference that actually gives a date and I am not an historian. It > appears to have developed in response to a change in fashion at the end of the > 18th century and start of the 19th century and into the Jane Austen era. The > French Revolution 1789 terminated much lacemaking in France and here the > aristocracy became twitchy in case it was catching and so less lace was worn > and when it became fashionable again the style changed. > > I do not have sensitive toes and would welcome comments any one with greater > historical knowledge. > > Blow the dust > > Alex - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
RE: [lace] date for Bucks point
I saw the question. A year or two ago the Met had a Vigee LeBrun exhibit. She was the artist who painted the French aristocracy right up to the Revolution and even beyond, as she also fled. I thought it would be interesting to have a viewing of lace such as in the paintings. Most of it was Alencon, though. I do recall a piece that was bobbin lace and I recall thinking that it looked like a good candidate to be done in point ground, because it was largely mesh with only tiny motifs around the edge, but, it was actually Valenciennes. I went looking for the pictures, but I canât find them. However, the lace at that time was all this tiny motifs and edges. I have a lace collection that includes samples purchased over the years, dated by knowledgeable dealers and collectors. So, I just had a look through them. Incredibly most of the tiny motif lace that I have is Mechlin, although you donât know it unless you look at it with strong magnification. However I have found one piece that is point ground. A previous dealer has written Lille 1760-1790 on it. I suppose it is possible that it is Empire style. It has some suspicious looking leaves on it, sort of like laural.. Do you want me to share a photo, possibly on Ning? Devon - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] date for Bucks point
Hi Arachnids I saw the posting requesting information about the date point ground started and have been waiting to see the response. Unfortunately there has net been even one, I was hoping someone else would come up with something as I have found no reference that actually gives a date and I am not an historian. It appears to have developed in response to a change in fashion at the end of the 18th century and start of the 19th century and into the Jane Austen era. The French Revolution 1789 terminated much lacemaking in France and here the aristocracy became twitchy in case it was catching and so less lace was worn and when it became fashionable again the style changed. I do not have sensitive toes and would welcome comments any one with greater historical knowledge. Blow the dust Alex - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
