[lace] Lace style sheet, was lace proof readers
In message 5a511.c641a32.40ae7...@aol.com, jeria...@aol.com writes Every lace group publication needs a proofreader. Every self-published lace book needs a proofreader. Whilst I agree with what Jeri says, I would amend this to at least one proof-reader - preferably two or three. I spent about 17 years on the proof-reading team for Lace (The Lace Guild's quarterly magazine) and still proof-read the Guild's other publications (ie books and calendars) - and yes, we do have a style sheet to follow. I'm also sure I'm not the only one to have spotted an error in Lace post publication, as even with a team of five or six proof-readers mistakes do get through. As a previous Editor said, we are all good at spotting different things. Whether words are one, or split, can vary according to the country of publication, and house style. The Guild uses lacemaker, lacemaking, needlelace, bobbin lace, etc. As an English person, if someone mentioned laces to me my first thought would be to shoelaces, not various kinds of lace. I think we came to the conclusion on Arachne a while back that the difference was that 'lace' as a plural word referred to a number of pieces of lace, but 'laces' referred to more than one type of lace. Recently on Facebook we've noticed a trend to run words together when they should be separate - Buckspoint instead of Bucks Point (which is the abbreviated term for Buckinghamshire Point), for example. When the erroneous form is used by a teacher (who in this case is not English by birth) it can be very confusing for new lacemakers who are only just beginning to learn lace jargon. This is where careful use of terminology in publications, and consistency in lace dictionaries is important, together with the understanding that UK-English, American-English and probably Australian-English are effectively separate languages. However, if we were to rule out the dialects (eg runners/weavers/workers) I think we would lose a lot of our lacemaking heritage. The one thing that several publications have been attempting is to move to the more International CT, CTC, CTCT notation for stitches, as this avoids the confusion caused by terms such as 'whole stitch' - which can be CTC or CTCT! I often tell the tale of when I was a medical secretary working in a hospital, with ten of us occupying the same office. One Tuesday morning not one of us could remember how many 'l's there were in 'always' - (whereas long complicated medical words we spelt correctly without batting an eyelid) and had to ask a passing doctor! (This was back in the 1970s, when we were using manual typewriters and correct spelling was important). -- Jane Partridge - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers
It is being a very interesting thread. I am learning not only lace technique but also English language Following the thread of DevonI wander what about plural: lace- makers? Kind Regards. Carolina de la Guardia Barcelona. Spain El 21/05/2014 14:58, dmt11h...@aol.com escribió: So lacemaker becomes needle-lace maker? She was a maker of needle lace, or she was a maker of needlelace? - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers
Bev, you could add:- I can knit lace in a variety of styles, but mainly Shetland. David in Ballarat, AUS Have to play with this: Maker of knitted lace. Knitter of knitted lace? I make knitted lace. I am one who makes knitted lace. I knit lace? I do lace knitting. There is a difference between knitted lace and lace knitting. I make both. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Lace style sheet, was lace proof readers
Dear Devon and all Correspondents Participating on Arachne, My original May 19th memo was about Lace Editors and Proofreaders. Yes, proofreaders would love a Lace Style Sheet, Devon! However, the structure of languages differs greatly, and Lace is an international passion enjoyed by many people reading this in English - not in their primary languages. Much is impacted during translations. Choice of words, spelling, grammar, and punctuation come to mind. Translators volunteering their language talents to editors of the quarterly OIDFA Journals spend many hours trying to make an article written in French comprehensible in English, or making an English article enjoyable for French-speaking members to read. It is stressful for the non-professional translators, but so appreciated by members of the International Bobbin and Needle Lace Organisation. (This is the official English spelling for de l'Organisation Internationale de la Dentelle au Fuseau et à l'Aiguille.) My best proofreading suggestion is easy. Read what has been printed aloud. You will probably realize when a word is missing, a sentence is too long, or something is confusing. I wrote the memo that set off this discussion because there are so many things the presence of a good editor and proofreader improves in our lace publications. However, often there is no proofreader. We need to convey accurate information, with the realization that researchers will use what we publish 100 years from now. Every lace group publication needs a proofreader. Every self-published lace book needs a proofreader. At a business and professional level, books are not being properly proofread in the 21st century, which annoys literate readers. Here are a few examples of what I mean: Fiction and non-fiction books are full of errors of all possible kinds. There is a relatively new book about 19th century art needlework in my library. The preface refers to it as a thesis. It contains so many convoluted sentences that it was very difficult to read. It seemed to me that the author (Cluckie), who lectures at a university, took her text straight from another author and twisted the sentences around to avoid being accused of plagiarism. What a waste. It makes my skin crawl to think that this author is being paid to teach others. Very expensive books from publishers such as Yale University Press and V A Publishing have met my eagle eyes, and failed. Specifically, sections of their books researchers will use: Notes and Bibliographies. Authors seem to be putting un-proofread and un-verified content in these sections. Institutions and publishers who have become sloppy now receive a letter of complaint from at least one person. They do not reply. But, they know someone is reading *all* the pages in their books and has higher expectations. If you enjoy a lace newsletter or bulletin that is well-edited and proofread, please thank the persons who have donated their time toward making your reading time more enjoyable. Jeri Ames in Maine USA Lace and Embroidery Resource Center In a message dated 5/19/2014 12:35:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dmt11h...@aol.com writes: I for one would like a lace Style Sheet for lacemaking terms. lace making, lace-making or lacemaking? lace makers or lacemakers? needle lace or needlelace? plural of lace? lace or laces? ...these come to my mind immediately. Devon - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers
Devon, in German we are lucky to have the hyphen. We can write Klöppel-Spitzen and so on. In English I wrote till today lace maker/s, lace making, needle lace, bobbin lace, crochet lace, knitted lace, lace is in my opinion singular and plural but if I am speaking of different techniques of lace I am writing laces. But I am not born with an English tongue so I am not competent to say wich is right. For me in that way it sounds understandable. Perhaps there are English teachers on the list who could explain this after the rules of English/american language. That would have be a wonderful question for Aurelia. Ilske - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers
Sorry, forgot to trim. Devon In a message dated 5/20/2014 8:36:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dmt11h...@aol.com writes: Frequently, it is the person who has studied the language formally who understands it better than the native speaker! Regarding the plural of lace, I have wondered about that for a long time. I actually did a slide show entitled The Lace of the Robber Barons. But noting that the book Antique Laces of the American Collectors, written in the 1920s, which I used in the research seemed to think that the plural of lace was laces, I sometimes called my slide show The Laces of the Robber Barons. But, The Lace of the Robber Barons sounded better to my ear. I know that there is a bit of an escape clause in Strunk and White's Elements of Style that claims that if it sounds wrong, don't do it, so I relied heavily on that. But, that seems overly liberal. If I were to refer to the many different kinds of lace in France, I would say the laces of France as in The laces of France are many and exquisite. If I were to buy an auction lot of different pieces of lace, I would say I bought a box of lace. Thoughts? Devon In a message dated 5/20/2014 7:59:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ilske.l.thom...@t-online.de writes: Devon, in German we are lucky to have the hyphen. We can write Klöppel-Spitzen and so on. In English I wrote till today lace maker/s, lace making, needle lace, bobbin lace, crochet lace, knitted lace, lace is in my opinion singular and plural but if I am speaking of different techniques of lace I am writing laces. But I am not born with an English tongue so I am not competent to say wich is right. For me in that way it sounds understandable. Perhaps there are English teachers on the list who could explain this after the rules of English/american language. That would have be a wonderful question for Aurelia. Ilske - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/ - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/ - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers
Frequently, it is the person who has studied the language formally who understands it better than the native speaker! Regarding the plural of lace, I have wondered about that for a long time. I actually did a slide show entitled The Lace of the Robber Barons. But noting that the book Antique Laces of the American Collectors, written in the 1920s, which I used in the research seemed to think that the plural of lace was laces, I sometimes called my slide show The Laces of the Robber Barons. But, The Lace of the Robber Barons sounded better to my ear. I know that there is a bit of an escape clause in Strunk and White's Elements of Style that claims that if it sounds wrong, don't do it, so I relied heavily on that. But, that seems overly liberal. If I were to refer to the many different kinds of lace in France, I would say the laces of France as in The laces of France are many and exquisite. If I were to buy an auction lot of different pieces of lace, I would say I bought a box of lace. Thoughts? Devon In a message dated 5/20/2014 7:59:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ilske.l.thom...@t-online.de writes: Devon, in German we are lucky to have the hyphen. We can write Klöppel-Spitzen and so on. In English I wrote till today lace maker/s, lace making, needle lace, bobbin lace, crochet lace, knitted lace, lace is in my opinion singular and plural but if I am speaking of different techniques of lace I am writing laces. But I am not born with an English tongue so I am not competent to say wich is right. For me in that way it sounds understandable. Perhaps there are English teachers on the list who could explain this after the rules of English/american language. That would have be a wonderful question for Aurelia. Ilske - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/ - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers
Devon, I think it's logical to say the laces of... but I bought a box of lace. The box indicates several pieces of lace. Ilske . But noting that the book Antique Laces of the American Collectors, written in the 1920s, which I used in the research seemed to think that the plural of lace was laces, German was written in another way in 1920 than we do today and I am sure with English it is the same. If we look how much American English differs from English English today it's very obvious how language change during the time. And our special vocabulary is also a subject of grammar as the rest of our language. But sometimes it is a question of sound The lace of Mr X indicates there is only one The laces of Mr X is something more important. It could be that somebody else has another feeling hearing those sentences. Ilske - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
RE: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers
Lace = a collective noun, meaning all lace taken together or used in a general sense. Laces = the plural of lace when talking about many different varieties of lace. e.g. Cheese (in general), Edam Cheese (a particular variety of cheese), but the Dutch cheeses (meaning all the different ones as a group). My bit of wisdom as a Dutch person, and an English language teacher. Agnes Boddington - Elloughton UK If I were to refer to the many different kinds of lace in France, I would say the laces of France as in The laces of France are many and exquisite. If I were to buy an auction lot of different pieces of lace, I would say I bought a box of lace. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/ - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers
Hello all, Although my English may not be correct in many ways, I want to give my opinion, based in what I have studied a long time ago. In fact, we can use the word LACE in singular or plural depending on its meaning. If we use lace (in singular), we are using the word with a collective meaning, that is, lace as a group of laces, in a general sense: for example, lace is made in my country, I like making tape lace, lace lessons, etc. But if we use laces (in plural), we are being more specific: the laces made in our workshop.., or the ones made in England, laces made in such technique... . For this reason, in many cases we can use either the singular or the plural form, depending on the meaning we want or need. And often, we can even use both forms without making an important change in the meaning. Hope this helps to all those language lovers! Best wishes from Spain (where we finally have rain!) Antje González ww.vueltaycruz.es https://www.etsy.com/shop/TwistAndCross - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers
When in doubt I consult the Oxford Spelling Dictionary (it has British and American spelling) , which lists the following: lace laces laced lacing lacemaker /s lacemaking (but the spell checker on this computer wants to spell it lace making or lovemaking!) lace-pillow /s Similarly, needle follows the same pattern, although neither needlelace nor needle lace are listed. Bobbin /s but bobbin lace. Confusingly, my very large dictionary (not Oxford) uses hyphens in lace-maker and lace-pillow. It seems that You pays your money and takes your pick. I taught Improve Your English to adults for 15 years, with emphasis on grammar, spelling and handwriting. When there was choice my advice always was, Be consistent and don't change from one form to the other in the same piece of writing. I suppose you could give the same piece of advice to beginner lace makers. With regard to lace or laces, context can help decide which to use. A box of laces could mean shoelaces or even shoe-laces. Liz Pass In Poole, Dorset where it's dry, overcast and relatively warm - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers
I say it is for the lace writing community to set the usage, and the Oxford Spelling Dictionary to follow our lead! As soon as we develop our style sheet we can send them a copy :-) In a message dated 5/20/2014 11:22:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, elizabeth.p...@tesco.net writes: When in doubt I consult the Oxford Spelling Dictionary (it has British and American spelling) , which lists the following: - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Subject: Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers
Hi Arachnids Re - Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 08:36:21 -0400 (EDT) From: dmt11h...@aol.com Subject: Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers Frequently, it is the person who has studied the language formally who understands it better than the native speaker! I agree with this comment. As a native speaker I am not always aware of all the rules of spelling and grammar as someone who has studied it can be. As a teacher and author writing about lace subjects I am well aware of the pitfalls, so are my proof readers including Aurelia herself. I would never have finished revamping my dictionary without her. She was always picking me up, and making pointed comments using misinterpretation that had me in stitches and enlivened my mornings. When I wrote my dictionary of lacemaking terms I was often asked which was the correct term when there were several. In my opinion it is not about which is the correct term. To me words are tools by which we pass on and receive ideas. What matters is that both the sender and receiver have the same understanding of the word or phrase. The English language is wide open to misinterpretation, hence the wonderful episodes when Shakespeare has his actors playing with them and Aurelia made fun of what would otherwise have been tedious. As an author and teacher I have to do my best to guard against misinterpretation, and I use several lacemakers to proofread and try out my explanations. My thanks to all my helpers. Hopefully we succeed. Happy lacemaking Alex - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers
Hi All, Ilske's note made sense to me - I would never write knittedlace maker. But I would go for knitted lace maker. I think I use all the different spellings because I can never remember which one I prefer. But I do try to be consistent within a piece of writing. Jane in Vermont, USA where the lilacs are in bloom and smell divine. jvik...@sover.net I say it is for the lace writing community to set the usage, and the Oxford Spelling Dictionary to follow our lead! As soon as we develop our style sheet we can send them a copy :-) - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
RE: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers
I had to laugh: a knitted lace maker, conjures up a strange picture. Agnes Boddington - Elloughton UK Hi All, Ilske's note made sense to me - I would never write knittedlace maker. But I would go for knitted lace maker. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers
Hi All, Ilske's note made sense to me - I would never write knittedlace maker. But I would go for knitted lace maker. Wouldn't you be a lace knitter, not a knitted lace maker? Oddly enough, though, it seems as though bobbin lace is never one word, whereas needlelace sometimes is. Devon - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers
Hello Agnes and everyone Have to play with this: Maker of knitted lace. Knitter of knitted lace? I make knitted lace. I am one who makes knitted lace. I knit lace? I do lace knitting. There is a difference between knitted lace and lace knitting. I make both. . On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Agnes Boddington ag...@weatherwax.karoo.co.uk wrote: I had to laugh: a knitted lace maker, conjures up a strange picture. -- Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers
Hi Arachnids, Like Bev I got this lovely picture of a lace maker made in knitted lace :-D. Joepie, East Sussex, UK (Not a native English speaker) -Original Message- From: Bev Walker Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 9:12 PM To: Agnes Boddington Cc: Arachne Subject: Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers Hello Agnes and everyone Have to play with this: Maker of knitted lace. Knitter of knitted lace? I make knitted lace. I am one who makes knitted lace. I knit lace? I do lace knitting. There is a difference between knitted lace and lace knitting. I make both. . On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Agnes Boddington ag...@weatherwax.karoo.co.uk wrote: I had to laugh: a knitted lace maker, conjures up a strange picture. -- Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] lace style sheet, was lace proof readers
Oh not just a picture of a lace maker made in knitted lace - rather a 3-D knitted robot making lace :-) Sue suebabbs...@gmail.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
