[lace] machine/handmade lace
Devon wrote: The three Rs are Reading, Riting and Rithmetic (Reading, Writing and Arithmetic) at least in the US. It is a bit of a joke because only an uneducated person would think that each of the words started with an R. It's alliteration - each word starting with the same sound; sound being the important bit. Doesn't matter whether it starts with the same letter when written - (w)riting) - or if part of the word is removed - (a)rithmetic - to make the intended same sound. It makes the group of words more memorable. Often used in film and book titles, newspaper headlines or poetry to name just a few. Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003/albums/most-recent
[lace] machine/handmade lace
I would think that the worst of the poverty happened at the period when machine made lace was taking over from most of the hand made lace, so that the lace workers were paid very little for a skill no longer of value to most people. The lace dealers must have gone out of business too. The lace makers were making lace whether they enjoyed it or not, and many must have been glad to finish with it, hence they burned their bobbins, seeing no use for them. We make lace because we enjoy it, and not all of the lace workers would. Does anyone know whether there were any fundamental differences between the handmade lace industry in Devon and that in the Eats Midlands? Kathleen In England, where it is raining yet again! I - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003/albums/most-recent
Re: [lace] machine/handmade lace
I was also wondering if the poverty of lacemakers varied according to the period. For instance, I think that I have read that during the Napoleanic Wars, English lacemaking had a very profitable period because of the embargo on items from the continent. However, afterward, when there was European competition again, things got worse. Was there perhaps an over supply of English lacemakers who took it up during the fist two decades of the 19th century and who were then competing for a more limited market during the rest of the century? Are the reports that we read more of a dying industry, than of a vital industry? If lacemaking was such a miserable way of life, why did healthy people engage in it? Some things that I have read indicate that women preferred lacemaking to going into service. Was lacemaking a more respected and better paid life in France, for instance. I am told that making Alencon lace requires a ten year training period or apprenticeship. Why would people commit to this if it yielded a life no better than destitution? Most people can manage destitution without a ten year apprenticeship. Were English lacemakers making out of style patterns in the mid- 19th century, and thus not terribly salable, while the French ones, under a more unified industry presided over by the likes of the Lefebures were producing items that were at the height of fashion? Devon _ec...@cix.co.uk_ (mailto:ec...@cix.co.uk) writes: I would think that the worst of the poverty happened at the period when machine made lace was taking over from most of the hand made lace, so that the lace workers were paid very little for a skill no longer of value to most people. The lace dealers must have gone out of business too. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003/albums/most-recent
Re: [lace] machine/handmade lace 3 R's
Dear all, I thought it might come from the song, School days, school days, written in 1907 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_Days_%281907_song%29 but evidently it comes from more exalted places: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_three_Rs I am glad the children eventually learned more than just lacemaking, as I think we are all firm believers in education. But in those days there was not universal literacy, so a lack of the 3 R's in lacemaking schools shouldn't be surprising. Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA, where we're having a rainy day. No drought here. Devon wrote: The three Rs are Reading, Riting and Rithmetic (Reading, Writing and Arithmetic) at least in the US. It is a bit of a joke because only an uneducated person would think that each of the words started with an R. Jean in Poole wrote: It's alliteration - Often used in film and book titles, newspaper headlines or poetry to name just a few. My email sends out an automatic message. Arachne members, please ignore it. I read your emails. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003/albums/most-recent
Re: [lace] machine/handmade lace 3 R's
I am reading a book, Cinque secoli di merletti europei, I Capolavori, in which there is a discussion about French lacemaking in which it makes the claim that the French Parliament saw the demise of the French lace industry as a result of compulsory education. p. 212. Speaking of the French Parliament's discussions about the failing lace industry in 1900 to 1903, the book says: One of the reasons for this collapse, and all the members of parliament agreed about it, were the laws passed on 16th May 1881 and 28th May 1882 extending compulsory education to the age of 13, to the detriment of professional training. The claim is that apprenticeship is very long, 4 or 5 years, and must be started very early. At 13 the girls leave school and have not time to acquire the skills for lacemaking as they must go to work immediately, and so have to become housemaids instead. The speech goes on to list the evident advantages deriving from an industry that could solve the unemployment problem, stop the depopulation of the countryside and, because it was made at home, hold the family unit together. So, I guess that not everyone sees the benefits of an education in the 3Rs. According to the French Parliament it made its victims unemployable, and destroys family life. Devon _lynrbailey@desupernet.net_ (mailto:lynrbai...@desupernet.net) writes: I am glad the children eventually learned more than just lacemaking, as I think we are all firm believers in education. But in those days there was not universal literacy, so a lack of the 3 R's in lacemaking schools shouldn't be surprising. Lyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA, where we're having a rainy day. No drought here. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003/albums/most-recent
[lace] machine/handmade lace 3 R's
This reminds me of a conversation I had with the proprietor of the shop where I used to buy my daughters' school uniforms. Her family was from India, and she herself had been to university and gained a degree in Art. However, she said that the consequence of the girls being able to be educated to university level was that they were no longer learning the traditional embroidery skills from their mothers - she said that her mother was a skilled embroideress, doing wonderful work with mirrors, etc, but she had not had the time to learn any of these embroidery skills from her. Consider how many of us have learnt to make lace later in life than childhood - some, I know, have learnt from mothers and grandmothers, but many of us didn't have time until we had got our education, and in some cases, young family, out of the way. Maybe the same will happen in terms of the embroidery mentioned above, but do we need to think in terms of education encompassing traditional skills as well as the academic prowess our politicians and quangos think are far more important? In message a1d2.5681c7f9.3d5bb...@aol.com, dmt11h...@aol.com writes The claim is that apprenticeship is very long, 4 or 5 years, and must be started very early. At 13 the girls leave school and have not time to acquire the skills for lacemaking as they must go to work immediately, and so have to become housemaids instead. The speech goes on to list the evident advantages deriving from an industry that could solve the unemployment problem, stop the depopulation of the countryside and, because it was made at home, hold the family unit together. -- Jane Partridge - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003/albums/most-recent
Fw: [lace] machine/handmade lace
OK there were very few job opportunities for girls in the 18/19th centuries. If I had to choose between lace making which was clean, light, work at home with hours to suit. Against working long hours away from home scrubbing, cleaning, cooking, washing for someone else for little return or thanks - I know which I would choose!! Living conditions were probably not always the best but you can't have everything ;o) I read somewhere that the girls of Northamptonshire were noted for their small, soft hands - which was due to the fact they made lace all day long for a living! Diana - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003/albums/most-recent
[lace] machine/handmade lace
Another thought is that lacemakers began learning their trade at about 4 or 5 years of age - they did as their parents (or workhouse master) told them to. By the time they were of an age to go into service, usually around 10, they would already possibly be contributing to the family income by selling their lace - so why change from a job you already had, and knew what you were doing, to one where you had to start learning again - and if female, run the risk of losing your job if you ended up pregnant thanks to the attentions of the master or one of the stable lads! Going into service depended very much on whether there was a job to be had at the local big house - not always the case. I very much doubt the youth of that era had a choice of career given to them as we have now - they did as they were told. Once married, the norm was that women didn't work outside the home - certainly not in service - so perhaps lacemaking was seen as a 'job for life' whereas going into service was a job until marriage? This view on women working carried on well into the 20th century. In message 1344960759.87716.yahoomail...@web87302.mail.ird.yahoo.com, Diana Smith diana.trevo...@btinternet.com writes OK there were very few job opportunities for girls in the 18/19th centuries. If I had to choose between lace making which was clean, light, work at home with hours to suit. Against working long hours away from home scrubbing, cleaning, cooking, washing for someone else for little return or thanks - I know which I would choose!! Living conditions were probably not always the best but you can't have everything ;o) -- Jane Partridge - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003/albums/most-recent
[lace] machine/handmade lace
I think you will find that this applies after the passing of the Education Act in the late 19th century (can't recall the exact year but somewhere around 1874 I think) when the Dame Schools by law had to provide some teaching other than just the practicalities of lacemaking - ie the children would be able to read and write their name, and perhaps a few passages from the Bible, but certainly didn't have anything like the sort of education in English and Maths that we do now. The dames themselves would not necessarily have been well educated, either! Many of the parents, who had to pay extra for this privilege, objected on the grounds that it wouldn't teach them anything useful - so they also faced discouragement at home. Before the Education Act there was no requirement for the children to learn anything other than lacemaking at these schools. If they learnt anything else at all, the likelihood would be that it would have been at Sunday School where they picked up the basics of the three Rs, together with needlework, etc (I have my great great grandmother's sampler which would have been worked at Sunday School - she would have been helping her parents, her father was a nailer in Bromsgrove - in the home and forge during the week before she left home and went into service). Running the home would have taken second fiddle to making enough lace to survive, with chores undertaken early in the morning or late at night, I suspect it was in many cases a hand to mouth existence - make the lace, sell it, use the money to buy provisions. I also don't think they were that well off - remember the lace was sold to a dealer, on cut off day - if the lace wasn't up to scratch they weren't paid, and if they were, it was usually by the truck system where they were paid in tokens (as were their ag lab husbands) which could be exchanged for high price goods (ie food etc) in the dealer's shop - if they wanted to be paid in cash (which is still a legal right) then they were paid less - about 10d to the shilling. It was because of the poverty that many lacemakers moved to jobs in the factories when they could - maybe away from home and not quite so clean, but certainly better paid - and also why so many burnt their lace equipment to celebrate their escape from the slavery. As fashion changed throughout the 19th century demand dropped, putting both hand and machine lace workers out of employment. One of the reasons why it was so difficult to find sufficient lacemakers to work the lace for Queen Victoria's wedding dress was that efforts to earn enough from lacemaking had led to a drop in quality of workmanship. The end product may be high priced, but only after the dealers had made their profit, they were the ones who were well paid! To compare, consider how little lacemakers in third world countries get today, by the time you have deducted the various taxes, transport costs, wholesaler and retailer's profit, etc from the lace you see on sale in various tourist areas - no way do they get a decent wage! Their work would have been repetitive, maybe not making exactly the same pattern but certainly the same type of lace - according to the dealer's pattern book and their skill level. The best lacemakers would have had the most varied life. In message 0AD9359F26314D88A5A2E02A1B4B758D@dellsx280, Peter and Kathleen Harris ec...@cix.co.uk writes I would like to address Lorelei's comment that the lacemakers working by hand were often illiterate. My understanding is quite different. In the English villages where lace was made, many of the children, both boys and girls, were sent to lace schools. Lacemaking was taught, but also basic reading, writing and arithmetic, this being necessary to justify them being called schools. -- Jane Partridge - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003/albums/most-recent
Re: [lace] machine/handmade lace
In the 19th century 'Lace Schools' were mostly just that - schools for learning to make lace. Usually kept by an elderly lace maker who would have little or no skills in teaching the three R's. Some basics in lettering could probably be achieved but little more. The following is an account by a lace maker from Sudborough in Northamptonshire. There is no mention of the children learning anything other than lace making.  âMrs Bugby was born in the atmosphere of pillows and bobbins for her mother kept a lace school in the village so the combined memories of mother and daughter take us back to the time when lace making flourished and supplemented the meagre wages of the menfolk. We learn that there were two or three lace schools in Sudborough and Mrs Bugbyâs mother had about a dozen scholars. She had a room with 2 windows and some girls sat by one and the rest by the other. The scholars sat back to back to prevent unnecessary conversation. The ages of the scholars varied. Some began at the age of 5 and stayed until they were married. Girls preferred lace making to going into service. Her motherâs charge to teach them the art was 3 shillings and this including âsetting upâ tying bobbins etc. This price included everything until the learner was a thoroughly competent lace maker. After they became skilled, her mother charged them 3d a week to do work in her house and that included firing in the winter. Mrs Bugby herself started lace making when only 5 years old. Work began as soon as it was light and continued until the allotted task was done.'  There were Dame's Schools and Charity Schools which provided 'reading, sewing and lacemaking'. These were sometimes run together with children spending time in each. In some areas evening classes were also available for the very keen. At nearby Wellingborough - 'A charity school in which 25 boys are taught to read, and the like number of girls to read, sew and make lace, is supported by means of a bequest made by John Freeman in 1711.' The above is taken from my research into lacemaking in Northamptonshire.  I have a interesting book published in 2000 by Alan Brown called 'Take the Children...? How Victorian lace girls lived and worked in the Honiton and East Midlands districts - this is their story, as told to the 1862 Royal Commission. I believe Sheila Brown is on the list.  Diana Smith in Northamptonshire - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003/albums/most-recent
Re: [lace] machine/handmade lace
Excuse the ignorance, but what are the three Rs? Karen in Malta - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003/albums/most-recent - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003/albums/most-recent
Re: [lace] machine/handmade lace
The three Rs are Reading, Riting and Rithmetic (Reading, Writing and Arithmetic) at least in the US. It is a bit of a joke because only an uneducated person would think that each of the words started with an R. Devon _kazaman44@gmail.com_ (mailto:kazama...@gmail.com) writes: Excuse the ignorance, but what are the three Rs? Karen in Malta - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003/albums/most-recent
RE: [lace] machine/handmade lace
Hi, Karen - It's a bit tongue in cheek (a bit of a joke) really: Reading, wRiting, and aRithmetic G. Margery. margerybu...@o2.co.uk in North Herts, UK -Original Message- From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of Karen M. Zammit Manduca Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 9:13 PM To: Diana Smith Cc: Arachne Subject: Re: [lace] machine/handmade lace Excuse the ignorance, but what are the three Rs? Karen in Malta - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003/albums/most-recent - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003/albums/most-recent - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003/albums/most-recent
[lace] machine/handmade lace
My Great Grandmother was taught to read and write - probably at lace School. However the family thought it was dreadful that her father paid to have her taught to read and write - a total waste of hard earned money, and they almost banned him from the family!! She was the last of the family to earn her living making lace. I have no idea who she worked for. She lived in the villages around Bedford. I have a well worn bone bobbin with her name on and dated 1864, - which must be when she started school as a 4 year old, as she was born in 1860. I have a collar which I think she may have made, as it was given to my mother for her 21st birthday. My Grandma made the lace for my 21st birthday. Grandma taught lace I think, for a while, but did not make it for sale. Regards from Liz in cold, wintery,Melbourne, Oz. lizl...@bigpond.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003/albums/most-recent
