Re: [Langcom] Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks

2018-03-22 Thread Steven White 
MarcoAurelio, I guess I should have stated my point a little differently. You 
are right that policy allows the closure of this project for the reasons you 
state. Still, LangCom's execution of that policy in recent times has been to 
give projects the benefit of the doubt and to keep them open, except in cases 
where the spam content makes that completely inappropriate.  As MF-Warburg 
likes to point out, having the projects open makes them easier to reinvigorate 
if and when people show up who are interested in doing so. Otherwise, it takes 
some effort to move them to Incubator, and then to reverse the process later on.


Given the above, taking the first question (should the project be closed and 
locked), policy allows that. I don't especially favor that, but then I don't 
have a vote here.  And, to be sure, (a) there is not a lot of evidence that 
there are people interested in reinvigorating the project now, and (b) while 
the community such as it is doesn't exactly support the proposal, it does not 
object, either.


The second question, though, is whether or not it should be moved to Incubator 
if closed. If one item, the Python book, is valid, then it should be moved to 
Incubator. What I would propose, then, is the following:


  *   Let's get some more opinions from LangCom members who have not weighed in 
yet: Should this project be locked?
  *   If the answer to that ends up being "yes", then we ask User:Jagwar (the 
one relatively active participant) to identify what content is actually useful. 
Whatever content he identifies as useful gets moved to Incubator.


I'd also like to establish the idea that part of what makes this proposal work 
is that the community does not object. If there are similar cases identified, 
but those communities object, I would not like to see projects closed over 
those objections.


Steven


Sent from Outlook



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Re: [Langcom] Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks

2018-03-22 Thread MarcoAurelio 
Hello,

Actually the policy allows closing projects "which don't have content or
existing content is insignificant" (type one). In this case, mgwikibooks
falls under that clause totally in my opinion:

- only one editor has been somewhat active there for 10 years and has not
really objected to the closure,
- existing content is insignificant; there's not even a single finished
book and most content is of the type of <
https://mg.wikibooks.org/wiki/Jeografia>, if anything, only the Python book
may need to be transferred to theIncubator (~10 short pages).
- and community seems to be supportive to the idea of closing the project
due to its lack of content and inactivity.

Given all of the above, I invite the LangCom to vote for closing the
project.

Thanks, MA.


El El mié, 21 mar 2018 a las 21:20, Steven White 
escribió:

> That is only appropriate if the current content is actually junk. If it's
> legitimate, either it gets transferred or the original project stays open.
>
> MA, current policy is not to close projects unless they are infested with
> spam. I am quite worried that if we close this we will end up closing many
> others. That might well make the lives of stewards and GS a little easier,
> but it mostly runs against the grain of WMF's mission.
>
> Steven White
>
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Re: [Langcom] Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks

2018-03-21 Thread Steven White 
That is only appropriate if the current content is actually junk. If it's 
legitimate, either it gets transferred or the original project stays open.

MA, current policy is not to close projects unless they are infested with spam. 
I am quite worried that if we close this we will end up closing many others. 
That might well make the lives of stewards and GS a little easier, but it 
mostly runs against the grain of WMF's mission.

Steven White



From: langcom-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
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Subject: Langcom Digest, Vol 54, Issue 17
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Topics: 1. Re: Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks (MarcoAurelio) 2. Re: 
Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks (Gerard Meijssen) 3. Re: Proposal to close 
Malagasy Wikibooks (MF-Warburg) 
-- Message: 
1 Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 16:28:31 +0100 From: MarcoAurelio To: Wikimedia 
Foundation Language Committee Subject: Re: [Langcom] Proposal to close Malagasy 
Wikibooks Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" We can lock and 
leave the "content" there and inform people that if they wish to contribute 
further they can start a test project on the Incubator if that's okay. 
2018-03-21 15:33 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen : > Hoi, > Having a project locked 
is different from having it moved to Incubator.. I > do not object to the 
project being locked. > Thanks, > Gerard > > On 21 March 2018 at 14:39, 
MarcoAurelio wrote: > >> Issue is that we're serving a project for just 15 
pages. I'd argue that >> is, indeed, absence of content since the wiki 
creation. Combined with no >> users interested in the project, etc., the best 
we can do, IMHO, is to lock >> the project and return it back to Incubator. 
Respectfully submitted, MA. >> >> 2018-03-20 7:38 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen : 
>> >>> Hoi, >>> As there is nothing new, no change in the maintenance needed 
for this >>> particular project I see his point but I do not see the need. >>> 
Thanks, >>> GerardM >>> >>> On 19 March 2018 at 23:54, Steven White wrote: >>> 
>>>> Please see Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Malagasy Wikibooks 
>>>> on >>>> Meta. >>>> >>>> >>>> The general argument here is that this 
project has been dormant for >>>> about ten years, and should be closed. There 
is not a vandalism problem on >>>> the project, and indeed I argued that 
LangCom's current position is that it >>>> is better to leave dormant projects 
alone than to close them and move them >>>> to Incubator. >>>> >>>> >>>> 
User:MarcoAurelio, a steward who has posted here occasionally, argues >>>> that 
it's one more dormant project for stewards and global sysops to watch, >>>> and 
that in his view, it would be better to close this project. Two people >>>> in 
the community have responded: one user who really the only material >>>> 
contributor in the last ten years, along with an active sysop from Malagasy 
>>>> Wikipedia. Both effectively take the position that they're OK either way. 
>>>> >>>> >>>> I would personally argue against closing, because I don't see 
this as >>>> being a special case, and I'm concerned that it would open the 
doors to >>>> many more requests to close small projects. But I'd like to hear 
some >>>> other opinions about this. >>>> >>>> >>>> Steven >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent 
from Outlook >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> 
Langcom mailing list >>>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> 
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Re: [Langcom] Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks

2018-03-21 Thread Gerard Meijssen 
Hoi,
This is quite agressive. What makes you say this and also what is it you
hope to achieve in this way?
Thanks,
 GerardM

Op wo 21 mrt. 2018 om 18:25 schreef MF-Warburg 

> Do you even know what you are talking about?
>
> Am 21.03.2018 5:52 nachm. schrieb "Gerard Meijssen" <
> gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Hoi,
>> When it is about a Wikibooks, I do not need a period in the Incubator. As
>> far as I am concerned, they can just move forward.
>> Thanks,
>>   GerardM
>>
>> On 21 March 2018 at 16:28, MarcoAurelio  wrote:
>>
>>> We can lock and leave the "content" there and inform people that if they
>>> wish to contribute further they can start a test project on the Incubator
>>> if that's okay.
>>>
>>> 2018-03-21 15:33 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen :
>>>
 Hoi,
 Having a project locked is different from having it moved to
 Incubator.. I do not object to the project being locked.
 Thanks,
  Gerard

 On 21 March 2018 at 14:39, MarcoAurelio  wrote:

> Issue is that we're serving a project for just 15 pages. I'd argue
> that is, indeed, absence of content since the wiki creation. Combined with
> no users interested in the project, etc., the best we can do, IMHO, is to
> lock the project and return it back to Incubator. Respectfully submitted,
> MA.
>
> 2018-03-20 7:38 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen :
>
>> Hoi,
>> As there is nothing new, no change in the maintenance needed for this
>> particular project I see his point but I do not see the need.
>> Thanks,
>>  GerardM
>>
>> On 19 March 2018 at 23:54, Steven White 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Please see Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Malagasy
>>> Wikibooks
>>> 
>>>  on
>>> Meta.
>>>
>>>
>>> The general argument here is that this project has been dormant for
>>> about ten years, and should be closed. There is not a vandalism problem 
>>> on
>>> the project, and indeed I argued that LangCom's current position is 
>>> that it
>>> is better to leave dormant projects alone than to close them and move 
>>> them
>>> to Incubator.
>>>
>>>
>>> User:MarcoAurelio, a steward who has posted here occasionally,
>>> argues that it's one more dormant project for stewards and global 
>>> sysops to
>>> watch, and that in his view, it would be better to close this project. 
>>> Two
>>> people in the community have responded: one user who really the only
>>> material contributor in the last ten years, along with an active sysop 
>>> from
>>> Malagasy Wikipedia. Both effectively take the position that they're
>>> OK either way.
>>>
>>>
>>> I would personally argue against closing, because I don't see this
>>> as being a special case, and I'm concerned that it would open the doors 
>>> to
>>> many more requests to close small projects. But I'd like to hear some
>>> other opinions about this.
>>>
>>>
>>> Steven
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Outlook 
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>
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Re: [Langcom] Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks

2018-03-21 Thread MF-Warburg 
Do you even know what you are talking about?

Am 21.03.2018 5:52 nachm. schrieb "Gerard Meijssen" <
gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>:

> Hoi,
> When it is about a Wikibooks, I do not need a period in the Incubator. As
> far as I am concerned, they can just move forward.
> Thanks,
>   GerardM
>
> On 21 March 2018 at 16:28, MarcoAurelio  wrote:
>
>> We can lock and leave the "content" there and inform people that if they
>> wish to contribute further they can start a test project on the Incubator
>> if that's okay.
>>
>> 2018-03-21 15:33 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen :
>>
>>> Hoi,
>>> Having a project locked is different from having it moved to Incubator..
>>> I do not object to the project being locked.
>>> Thanks,
>>>  Gerard
>>>
>>> On 21 March 2018 at 14:39, MarcoAurelio  wrote:
>>>
 Issue is that we're serving a project for just 15 pages. I'd argue that
 is, indeed, absence of content since the wiki creation. Combined with no
 users interested in the project, etc., the best we can do, IMHO, is to lock
 the project and return it back to Incubator. Respectfully submitted, MA.

 2018-03-20 7:38 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen :

> Hoi,
> As there is nothing new, no change in the maintenance needed for this
> particular project I see his point but I do not see the need.
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>
> On 19 March 2018 at 23:54, Steven White 
> wrote:
>
>> Please see Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Malagasy
>> Wikibooks
>> 
>>  on
>> Meta.
>>
>>
>> The general argument here is that this project has been dormant for
>> about ten years, and should be closed. There is not a vandalism problem 
>> on
>> the project, and indeed I argued that LangCom's current position is that 
>> it
>> is better to leave dormant projects alone than to close them and move 
>> them
>> to Incubator.
>>
>>
>> User:MarcoAurelio, a steward who has posted here occasionally, argues
>> that it's one more dormant project for stewards and global sysops to 
>> watch,
>> and that in his view, it would be better to close this project. Two 
>> people
>> in the community have responded: one user who really the only material
>> contributor in the last ten years, along with an active sysop from 
>> Malagasy
>> Wikipedia. Both effectively take the position that they're OK either way.
>>
>>
>> I would personally argue against closing, because I don't see this as
>> being a special case, and I'm concerned that it would open the doors to
>> many more requests to close small projects. But I'd like to hear some
>> other opinions about this.
>>
>>
>> Steven
>>
>>
>> Sent from Outlook 
>>
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>>
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Re: [Langcom] Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks

2018-03-21 Thread MarcoAurelio 
We can lock and leave the "content" there and inform people that if they
wish to contribute further they can start a test project on the Incubator
if that's okay.

2018-03-21 15:33 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen :

> Hoi,
> Having a project locked is different from having it moved to Incubator.. I
> do not object to the project being locked.
> Thanks,
>  Gerard
>
> On 21 March 2018 at 14:39, MarcoAurelio  wrote:
>
>> Issue is that we're serving a project for just 15 pages. I'd argue that
>> is, indeed, absence of content since the wiki creation. Combined with no
>> users interested in the project, etc., the best we can do, IMHO, is to lock
>> the project and return it back to Incubator. Respectfully submitted, MA.
>>
>> 2018-03-20 7:38 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen :
>>
>>> Hoi,
>>> As there is nothing new, no change in the maintenance needed for this
>>> particular project I see his point but I do not see the need.
>>> Thanks,
>>>  GerardM
>>>
>>> On 19 March 2018 at 23:54, Steven White  wrote:
>>>
 Please see Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Malagasy Wikibooks
 
  on
 Meta.


 The general argument here is that this project has been dormant for
 about ten years, and should be closed. There is not a vandalism problem on
 the project, and indeed I argued that LangCom's current position is that it
 is better to leave dormant projects alone than to close them and move them
 to Incubator.


 User:MarcoAurelio, a steward who has posted here occasionally, argues
 that it's one more dormant project for stewards and global sysops to watch,
 and that in his view, it would be better to close this project. Two people
 in the community have responded: one user who really the only material
 contributor in the last ten years, along with an active sysop from Malagasy
 Wikipedia. Both effectively take the position that they're OK either way.


 I would personally argue against closing, because I don't see this as
 being a special case, and I'm concerned that it would open the doors to
 many more requests to close small projects. But I'd like to hear some
 other opinions about this.


 Steven


 Sent from Outlook 

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Re: [Langcom] Proposal to Close Malagasy Wikibooks

2018-03-21 Thread Steven White 
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 14:39:54 +0100
From: MarcoAurelio <strig...@gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
<langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks
Message-ID:
<CA+DRDAZbzSuHrNax2ihw4YjCcVdAruiqV2Jiky=zhf2kumh...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Issue is that we're serving a project for just 15 pages. I'd argue that is,
indeed, absence of content since the wiki creation. Combined with no users
interested in the project, etc., the best we can do, IMHO, is to lock the
project and return it back to Incubator. Respectfully submitted, MA.

2018-03-20 7:38 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>:

> Hoi,
> As there is nothing new, no change in the maintenance needed for this
> particular project I see his point but I do not see the need.
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>
> On 19 March 2018 at 23:54, Steven White <koala19...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Please see Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Malagasy Wikibooks
>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FProposals_for_closing_projects%2FClosure_of_Malagasy_Wikibooks=02%7C01%7C%7C5e5d83d389a64a69566708d58f38d54a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636572396618002551=KhhzD701MD830kIOwjHF3ZpOS79NofrAu%2FYcO59Djg0%3D=0>
>>  on
>> Meta.
>>
>>
>> The general argument here is that this project has been dormant for about
>> ten years, and should be closed. There is not a vandalism problem on the
>> project, and indeed I argued that LangCom's current position is that it is
>> better to leave dormant projects alone than to close them and move them to
>> Incubator.
>>
>>
>> User:MarcoAurelio, a steward who has posted here occasionally, argues
>> that it's one more dormant project for stewards and global sysops to watch,
>> and that in his view, it would be better to close this project. Two people
>> in the community have responded: one user who really the only material
>> contributor in the last ten years, along with an active sysop from Malagasy
>> Wikipedia. Both effectively take the position that they're OK either way.
>>
>>
>> I would personally argue against closing, because I don't see this as
>> being a special case, and I'm concerned that it would open the doors to
>> many more requests to close small projects. But I'd like to hear some
>> other opinions about this.
>>
>>
>> Steven
>>
>>
>> Sent from Outlook 
>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fweboutlook=02%7C01%7C%7C5e5d83d389a64a69566708d58f38d54a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636572396618002551=AQAkb8ZAIUnRCYMDJFBwd3iXsPNo0kQPP9JIqt1bqNY%3D=0>
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 15:33:51 +0100
From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
<langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks
Message-ID:

Re: [Langcom] Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks

2018-03-21 Thread Gerard Meijssen 
Hoi,
Having a project locked is different from having it moved to Incubator.. I
do not object to the project being locked.
Thanks,
 Gerard

On 21 March 2018 at 14:39, MarcoAurelio  wrote:

> Issue is that we're serving a project for just 15 pages. I'd argue that
> is, indeed, absence of content since the wiki creation. Combined with no
> users interested in the project, etc., the best we can do, IMHO, is to lock
> the project and return it back to Incubator. Respectfully submitted, MA.
>
> 2018-03-20 7:38 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen :
>
>> Hoi,
>> As there is nothing new, no change in the maintenance needed for this
>> particular project I see his point but I do not see the need.
>> Thanks,
>>  GerardM
>>
>> On 19 March 2018 at 23:54, Steven White  wrote:
>>
>>> Please see Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Malagasy Wikibooks
>>> 
>>>  on
>>> Meta.
>>>
>>>
>>> The general argument here is that this project has been dormant for
>>> about ten years, and should be closed. There is not a vandalism problem on
>>> the project, and indeed I argued that LangCom's current position is that it
>>> is better to leave dormant projects alone than to close them and move them
>>> to Incubator.
>>>
>>>
>>> User:MarcoAurelio, a steward who has posted here occasionally, argues
>>> that it's one more dormant project for stewards and global sysops to watch,
>>> and that in his view, it would be better to close this project. Two people
>>> in the community have responded: one user who really the only material
>>> contributor in the last ten years, along with an active sysop from Malagasy
>>> Wikipedia. Both effectively take the position that they're OK either way.
>>>
>>>
>>> I would personally argue against closing, because I don't see this as
>>> being a special case, and I'm concerned that it would open the doors to
>>> many more requests to close small projects. But I'd like to hear some
>>> other opinions about this.
>>>
>>>
>>> Steven
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Outlook 
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [Langcom] Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks

2018-03-21 Thread MarcoAurelio 
Issue is that we're serving a project for just 15 pages. I'd argue that is,
indeed, absence of content since the wiki creation. Combined with no users
interested in the project, etc., the best we can do, IMHO, is to lock the
project and return it back to Incubator. Respectfully submitted, MA.

2018-03-20 7:38 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen :

> Hoi,
> As there is nothing new, no change in the maintenance needed for this
> particular project I see his point but I do not see the need.
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>
> On 19 March 2018 at 23:54, Steven White  wrote:
>
>> Please see Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Malagasy Wikibooks
>> 
>>  on
>> Meta.
>>
>>
>> The general argument here is that this project has been dormant for about
>> ten years, and should be closed. There is not a vandalism problem on the
>> project, and indeed I argued that LangCom's current position is that it is
>> better to leave dormant projects alone than to close them and move them to
>> Incubator.
>>
>>
>> User:MarcoAurelio, a steward who has posted here occasionally, argues
>> that it's one more dormant project for stewards and global sysops to watch,
>> and that in his view, it would be better to close this project. Two people
>> in the community have responded: one user who really the only material
>> contributor in the last ten years, along with an active sysop from Malagasy
>> Wikipedia. Both effectively take the position that they're OK either way.
>>
>>
>> I would personally argue against closing, because I don't see this as
>> being a special case, and I'm concerned that it would open the doors to
>> many more requests to close small projects. But I'd like to hear some
>> other opinions about this.
>>
>>
>> Steven
>>
>>
>> Sent from Outlook 
>>
>> ___
>> Langcom mailing list
>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
>>
>>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
>
>
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Re: [Langcom] Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks

2018-03-20 Thread Gerard Meijssen 
Hoi,
As there is nothing new, no change in the maintenance needed for this
particular project I see his point but I do not see the need.
Thanks,
 GerardM

On 19 March 2018 at 23:54, Steven White  wrote:

> Please see Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Malagasy Wikibooks
> 
>  on
> Meta.
>
>
> The general argument here is that this project has been dormant for about
> ten years, and should be closed. There is not a vandalism problem on the
> project, and indeed I argued that LangCom's current position is that it is
> better to leave dormant projects alone than to close them and move them to
> Incubator.
>
>
> User:MarcoAurelio, a steward who has posted here occasionally, argues that
> it's one more dormant project for stewards and global sysops to watch, and
> that in his view, it would be better to close this project. Two people in
> the community have responded: one user who really the only material
> contributor in the last ten years, along with an active sysop from Malagasy
> Wikipedia. Both effectively take the position that they're OK either way.
>
>
> I would personally argue against closing, because I don't see this as
> being a special case, and I'm concerned that it would open the doors to
> many more requests to close small projects. But I'd like to hear some
> other opinions about this.
>
>
> Steven
>
>
> Sent from Outlook 
>
> ___
> Langcom mailing list
> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
>
>
___
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