Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Santiago A. via Lazarus]

El 29/10/2017 a las 11:23, Samuel Herzog via Lazarus escribió:
>
>
> A) a way to give a whole project from one developer to another
> developer. (no fiddeling around with missing
> packages/components/paths/environment-path).
>     e.g. a Menu-Option "Export-Project" which creates a bundle with
> all necessary files)
> B) Examples that work out of the box. ( when I choose examples in
> Lazarus, half of them do not work).
> C) Beginner Videos.
D) A debugger that can debug TStringList.text and other properties with
getter.

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Santiago A.

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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Alexsander Rosa via Lazarus]

RNGE 3 = desktop app, Windows and Linux.

We wrote a blog about the porting effort (from D7 to Lazarus):
http://port2laz.blogspot.com.br/2011/01/news-from-front.html






2017-11-27 17:23 GMT-02:00 Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org>:

> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Alexsander Rosa via Lazarus
>  wrote:
> >
> > Our ERP (version 3) was written in Lazarus + PostgreSQL.
> >
>
> Is it desktop or web?
>
> Best regards,
> Marcos Douglas
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>



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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus]

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Alexsander Rosa via Lazarus
 wrote:
>
> Our ERP (version 3) was written in Lazarus + PostgreSQL.
>

Is it desktop or web?

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Carlos E. R. via Lazarus]

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On Monday, 2017-10-30 at 10:21 +0200, Juha Manninen via Lazarus wrote:

On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 8:56 AM, Sven Barth via Lazarus <> wrote:



Yes, it's fpc-pascal and you can find it here:
https://freepascal.org/maillist.var

Alternatively you can use the bug tracker that both projects share at
https://bugs.freepascal.org/


FYI, those bugs should be reported against FPC trunk which already
differs a lot from the release version, due to the slow release cycle.


Oh, but I'm not going to install the trunk version, sorry.

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   Carlos E. R.
   (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus]

On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 1:47 AM, Dennis via Lazarus
 wrote:
>>
> I use FPC/Lazarus to write a program trading software to trade
> futures/options. I chose it because I need it to run on windows and (maybe
> in future) Linux and Mac OS.
> Could not use Java,C# because garbage collection and JIT compiler might
> cause the program to freeze in the middle of critical trading, which is
> utterly unacceptable for trading.

Some people say the same about garbage collection, but others don't.
They tell the code could be wrong.
But I agree with you.

> FPC is also clean and easy to maintain and can actually do anything. I might
> lack some new syntax to speed up parallel programming or functional
> programming but those could still be achieved with a bit work.
>
> I don't want to invest in a new language just for a few new features but
> risk making some programming errors since I don't fully understand the
> language.
> Also, new languages come and gone so fast. I remember Flash's language was
> hot some years ago but now discarded.
>
> Also FPC's compile time is short compared to many other languages.

Thanks for sharing this.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Juha Manninen via Lazarus]

On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 8:56 AM, Sven Barth via Lazarus
 wrote:
> Alternatively you can use the bug tracker that both projects share at
> https://bugs.freepascal.org/

FYI, those bugs should be reported against FPC trunk which already
differs a lot from the release version, due to the slow release cycle.

Juha
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Sven Barth via Lazarus]

Am 30.10.2017 00:14 schrieb "Carlos E. R. via Lazarus" <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org>:

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On Monday, 2017-10-30 at 00:59 +0200, Juha Manninen via Lazarus wrote:

On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 12:48 AM, Carlos E. R. via Lazarus <> wrote:
>
>> About a year ago or more.
>> ...
>> /usr/share/fpcsrc/packages/fv/examples/testapp.lpi
>>
>
> Ok, this was about FPC examples. I assumed Lazarus examples because
> this is Lazarus list.
> A year ago there may have been more broken Lazarus examples, too, but
> most of them are now checked.
>
> It would make sense to report the FPC example issue.
>

I don't really differentiate between the IDE and the compiler, sorry. I
mean, I know they are different projects, but still... both have to work
together. I don't remember what examples I have tried, I just went for the
first one I could find with "open project". An .lpi file is a Lazarus
project file, right?

And where does one report fpc issues such as that one, is it another mail
list?


Yes, it's fpc-pascal and you can find it here:
https://freepascal.org/maillist.var

Alternatively you can use the bug tracker that both projects share at
https://bugs.freepascal.org/

Regards,
Sven
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Dennis via Lazarus]

Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:

I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.


I use FPC/Lazarus to write a program trading software to trade 
futures/options. I chose it because I need it to run on windows and 
(maybe in future) Linux and Mac OS.
Could not use Java,C# because garbage collection and JIT compiler might 
cause the program to freeze in the middle of critical trading, which is 
utterly unacceptable for trading.


FPC is also clean and easy to maintain and can actually do anything. I 
might lack some new syntax to speed up parallel programming or 
functional programming but those could still be achieved with a bit work.
I don't want to invest in a new language just for a few new features but 
risk making some programming errors since I don't fully understand the 
language.
Also, new languages come and gone so fast. I remember Flash's language 
was hot some years ago but now discarded.


Also FPC's compile time is short compared to many other languages.

Dennis
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Carlos E. R. via Lazarus]

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On Monday, 2017-10-30 at 00:59 +0200, Juha Manninen via Lazarus wrote:

On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 12:48 AM, Carlos E. R. via Lazarus <> wrote:

About a year ago or more.
...
/usr/share/fpcsrc/packages/fv/examples/testapp.lpi


Ok, this was about FPC examples. I assumed Lazarus examples because
this is Lazarus list.
A year ago there may have been more broken Lazarus examples, too, but
most of them are now checked.

It would make sense to report the FPC example issue.


I don't really differentiate between the IDE and the compiler, sorry. I 
mean, I know they are different projects, but still... both have to work 
together. I don't remember what examples I have tried, I just went for the 
first one I could find with "open project". An .lpi file is a Lazarus 
project file, right?


And where does one report fpc issues such as that one, is it another mail 
list?


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   Carlos E. R.
   (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Juha Manninen via Lazarus]

On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 12:48 AM, Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
 wrote:
> About a year ago or more.
> ...
> /usr/share/fpcsrc/packages/fv/examples/testapp.lpi

Ok, this was about FPC examples. I assumed Lazarus examples because
this is Lazarus list.
A year ago there may have been more broken Lazarus examples, too, but
most of them are now checked.

It would make sense to report the FPC example issue.

Juha
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Carlos E. R. via Lazarus]

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On Sunday, 2017-10-29 at 17:20 +0200, Juha Manninen via Lazarus wrote:

On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 5:04 PM, Carlos E. R. via Lazarus <> wrote:

Well, I use Linux :-)


I also use Linux and I have tested them, too.


Of course not all examples fail, and maybe some were corrected since I
tried.


When did you try?


About a year ago or more.




Well, I can try, but I have no idea where/how to report bugs.


You could for example list the broken examples here. That's what I
asked earlier.


Sorry, I didn't see it. In this thread? I don't read all threads.


I doubt you will do it. Clearly this is yet another rant without substance.
First Samuel Herzog pulls a complaint from his hat. Then you repeat it
without testing.


If you are really interested in me testing, I will test.
I know for sure that some samples did not work, but I did not take notes.

Ok, I look now, randomly, at "testapp.lpi". Build fails at:

testapp.pas(38,2) Fatal: Cannot open include file "platform.inc"

sources are old, so I refresh them. [...] I do, but the error remains.

Project is at:

/usr/share/fpcsrc/packages/fv/examples/testapp.lpi

Missing file does exist, at:

/usr/share/doc/packages/fpc/examples/fv/examples/platform.inc
/usr/share/fpcsrc/packages/fv/src/platform.inc


and I copied the tree to my home dir. I have not looked at what may be the 
cause, but doing so may be offtopic for this thread. Maybe the paths are 
broken because the project was copied to HOME. Maybe the project is not 
intended for Linux, I don't know.



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   Carlos E. R.
   (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus]

On 2017-10-29 16:24, Giuliano Colla via Lazarus wrote:

But we've found that a good young programmer (usually trained in C)
usually appreciates the beauty of Pascal language, becomes fond of it,
and very quickly productive.


The problem with that is they don't have the years of experience in 
problem solving skills, design etc. Yes they might pump out code pretty 
fast, but how good is that code in the long run.


Granted, everybody should be given a chance at some point so they can 
learn and improve.


Regards,
  Graeme

--
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http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus]

On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Giuliano Colla
 wrote:
> Il 28/10/2017 16:45, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus ha scritto:
>
>> Do you have problems to find new Pascal programmers?
>
> Experienced Pascal programmers are hard to find here in Italy.
> But we've found that a good young programmer (usually trained in C) usually
> appreciates the beauty of Pascal language, becomes fond of it, and very
> quickly productive.
> As in any case a new programmer must be trained to get acquainted with
> company software practices, the extra time required to grasp the
> fundamentals of Pascal is almost negligible.

In fact, this is a good strategy. But makes me thinking if is
difficult to find C programmers as well.
The C language is old as Pascal. Why people continues learning C but not Pascal?

If Linux had been coded in Pascal, we might have a different history.  :)

Regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Giuliano Colla via Lazarus]

Il 28/10/2017 16:45, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus ha scritto:


Do you have problems to find new Pascal programmers?

Experienced Pascal programmers are hard to find here in Italy.
But we've found that a good young programmer (usually trained in C) 
usually appreciates the beauty of Pascal language, becomes fond of it, 
and very quickly productive.
As in any case a new programmer must be trained to get acquainted with 
company software practices, the extra time required to grasp the 
fundamentals of Pascal is almost negligible.


Giuliano

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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Mattias Gaertner via Lazarus]

On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 16:04:23 +0100 (CET)
"Carlos E. R. via Lazarus"  wrote:

>[...]
> Well, I can try, but I have no idea where/how to report bugs.

http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/How_do_I_create_a_bug_report

Mattias
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Juha Manninen via Lazarus]

On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 5:04 PM, Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
 wrote:
> Well, I use Linux :-)

I also use Linux and I have tested them, too.

> Of course not all examples fail, and maybe some were corrected since I
> tried.

When did you try?

> Well, I can try, but I have no idea where/how to report bugs.

You could for example list the broken examples here. That's what I
asked earlier.
I doubt you will do it. Clearly this is yet another rant without substance.
First Samuel Herzog pulls a complaint from his hat. Then you repeat it
without testing.

Juha
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[R0b0t1 via Lazarus]

Hello friends,

On Sunday, October 29, 2017, Schindler Karl-Michael via Lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> Hi
>
> My use is probably just another nice niche:
>
> Creating a nice GUI wrapper in Lazarus/Object Pascal for heavy numerical
simulation routines written in Fortran.
>

I have seen thisna few places. Lazarus still has the best form designer I
have used.

Cheers,
R0b0t1.
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[R0b0t1 via Lazarus]

Hello friends,

On Sunday, October 29, 2017, Samuel Herzog via Lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> Hello,
> I earning my money as delphi developer (now 20years).
> In the freetime I support Lazarus/FPC.
> The system I wrote (in the company) is in-house software used
> by about 150 users per day. (it's built with D7)
> D7 was fast/stable. We bought several new versions of Delphi in the past
13years but
> none of the new versions was as handy as D7.
> But now I am working with Delphi XE 10.2 Tokyo and I must say it's very
ok! I can recommend it.
> I would say they are back again :-) ( Hopefully they will remove the
dependency to .NET-stuff )
>
> Now let's talk a little about Lazarus...
> It's incredible which progress this project has made!
> The recent improvements in the IDE and Installer area (fpcupdeluxe and
online package manager) make
> things really better for new users.
> To attract more/new users to Object-Pascal "universe" the following
things would help:  (applies for both Delphi and Lazarus)
>
> A) a way to give a whole project from one developer to another developer.
(no fiddeling around with missing
packages/components/paths/environment-path).
> e.g. a Menu-Option "Export-Project" which creates a bundle with all
necessary files)

This is something else I forgot to touch on in my dimwittedness.

My experience with a multi-user project (Simba) that targeted Windows/Linux
was very poor. It was hard to keep the project in a state that made it
buildable on both OSes or even multiple. Eventually these issues were
overcome, but there still seems to be a lot of hidden complexity that makes
it hard to create reproducible builds and help new developers set up an
evironment.

Cheers,
R0b0t1.
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Carlos E. R. via Lazarus]

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On Sunday, 2017-10-29 at 15:42 +0100, Werner Pamler via Lazarus wrote:

Am 29.10.2017 um 14:01 schrieb Carlos E. R. via Lazarus:


 B) Examples that work out of the box. ( when I choose examples in Lazarus,
 half of them do not work).

 This is sadly true.


Certainly not. I spent the previous hours checking all demos in the examples 
folder under Windows 10, and the vast majority of them is working. The only 
one I could not get around with is the fpdocmanager example with uses two 
units that I have never seen. A few issues with other examples were fixed.


Well, I use Linux :-)

Of course not all examples fail, and maybe some were corrected since I 
tried.


Instead of complaining that examples are not working you should write a 
bugreport, and it will be fixed. It is a damn boring job looking through 
almost 100 demos...


Well, I can try, but I have no idea where/how to report bugs.

- -- 
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   Carlos E. R.
   (from openSUSE Linux 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Werner Pamler via Lazarus]

Am 29.10.2017 um 14:01 schrieb Carlos E. R. via Lazarus:

B) Examples that work out of the box. ( when I choose examples in 
Lazarus, half of them do not work).


This is sadly true.


Certainly not. I spent the previous hours checking all demos in the 
examples folder under Windows 10, and the vast majority of them is 
working. The only one I could not get around with is the fpdocmanager 
example with uses two units that I have never seen. A few issues with 
other examples were fixed.


Instead of complaining that examples are not working you should write a 
bugreport, and it will be fixed. It is a damn boring job looking through 
almost 100 demos...

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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Carlos E. R. via Lazarus]

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On Sunday, 2017-10-29 at 10:23 -, Samuel Herzog via Lazarus wrote:


To attract more/new users to Object-Pascal "universe" the following things 
would help:  (applies for both Delphi and Lazarus)

A) a way to give a whole project from one developer to another developer. (no 
fiddeling around with missing
packages/components/paths/environment-path).
    e.g. a Menu-Option "Export-Project" which creates a bundle with all 
necessary files)


Interesting.


B) Examples that work out of the box. ( when I choose examples in Lazarus, half 
of them do not work).


This is sadly true.

I have come back to Pascal (I previously used Borland Pascal a lot, but 
not Delphi), I love Lazarus, and I needed to see current day examples of 
things, but some of them fail to build or crash instantly. I don't have a 
list.


I also find very confusing that libraries for similar purposes exist and 
it is not easy to choose one. I could not see documentation on what a 
library to use and which not to use.



C) Beginner Videos.


I don't like videos very much, dunno. I prefer docs with photos. After 
all, code is text...


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   Carlos E. R.
   (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Schindler Karl-Michael via Lazarus]

Hi

My use is probably just another nice niche:

Creating a nice GUI wrapper in Lazarus/Object Pascal for heavy numerical 
simulation routines written in Fortran.

Michael.
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Samuel Herzog via Lazarus]

Hello,
I earning my money as delphi developer (now 20years).In the freetime I support 
Lazarus/FPC.
The system I wrote (in the company) is in-house software usedby about 150 users 
per day. (it's built with D7)
D7 was fast/stable. We bought several new versions of Delphi in the past 
13years butnone of the new versions was as handy as D7.But now I am working 
with Delphi XE 10.2 Tokyo and I must say it's very ok! I can recommend it.I 
would say they are back again :-) ( Hopefully they will remove the dependency 
to .NET-stuff )

Now let's talk a little about Lazarus...It's incredible which progress this 
project has made!The recent improvements in the IDE and Installer area 
(fpcupdeluxe and online package manager) makethings really better for new users.
To attract more/new users to Object-Pascal "universe" the following things 
would help:  (applies for both Delphi and Lazarus)

A) a way to give a whole project from one developer to another developer. (no 
fiddeling around with missing packages/components/paths/environment-path).    
e.g. a Menu-Option "Export-Project" which creates a bundle with all necessary 
files)B) Examples that work out of the box. ( when I choose examples in 
Lazarus, half of them do not work).C) Beginner Videos.


Sam

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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Sven Barth via Lazarus]

Am 28.10.2017 21:18 schrieb "Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus" <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org>:

On 2017-10-27 17:18, Giuliano Colla via Lazarus wrote:

>   2. Secondarily, Lazarus IDE is light years better than Delphi IDE.
>

That is so TRUE. I'm working full-time in a Delphi job again, using XE3
which sadly shows the same issues I saw in a trial version of XE10 - so in
all the "new versions" the same bugs still exist in the latest product
release. What are Delphi developers actually paying for with their monthly
subscriptions??? Clearly nothing is happing in the IDE front. The joys of
the "ransom ware" product model being introduced all over the world.


They all probably don't know what they're missing out on :P

Regards,
Sven
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Sven Barth via Lazarus]

Am 27.10.2017 18:46 schrieb "Ralf Quint via Lazarus" <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org>:

I can do everything I need to do (and then some) with
FreePascal/Lazarus. Yes, there are some areas where a bit more work is
needed, like being able to create Android/iOS applications with Lazarus
in the way it can be done with Delphi, or creating applications for
macOS. Or coding for embedded stuff with AVR based boards. Something
that IMHO should be put more focus on than adding the latest fads from
other programming languages to the compiler, just because some people
THINK they need this.


Please note that the people working on the compiler and those working on
the Lazarus IDE are nearly completely not the same. So comfortably creating
apps for Android and iOS as well as support for 64-bit macOS apps using
Cocoa is orthogonal to language features.
The only part that tangents the compiler team would be the extended AVR
support, but even then you need people that are interested in it (e.g. I
had worked on the m68k code generator because I wanted, not because someone
told me to).

Regards,
Sven
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus]

On 2017-10-27 15:13, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote:

... Recently we had a java service completely unresponsive for
30 seconds, it was doing GC... Not acceptable at all.


[on a side note - no need for a response]

I believe that could be down to a configuration issue or something else 
- not necessarily the Java language or VM or GC to be blamed for that. I 
say that because otherwise Stock Exchanges (they love Java), real-time 
robotics, banking (they really really love Java) etc would not be using 
Java... And here in the UK 8 out of every 10 Java jobs was one of these 
business sectors. At least that was my personal experience. Those 
business sectors would definitely not put up with 30 seconds of 
unresponsive services. Imagine the London Stock Exchange has a 30 second 
outage - that will be like a lifetime to them!


Interestingly you mentioned Tomcat. My new employer has plenty of issues 
with Embarcadero's License Server software - Java based and runs under 
Tomcat. Sometimes the license server process hangs - which invalidates 
all Delphi instances in the company (that's an issue for another time). 
The License Server in our company runs on a Windows machine and that 
process hangs so badly that Windows Server itself can't kill it. The 
Windows server needs to be rebooted to resolve the issue! So is that 
down to bad programming (possible), a bug in Tomcat (possible, but 
unlikely considering how popular it is and used - the issue would have 
been well known if it existed), a bug in Windows or something else. Who 
knows.


Regards,
  Graeme

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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus]

On 2017-10-28 21:37, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:

This is a wrong thinking, but it's true and many companies.


Indeed, the ability to get [skilled] replacement developers is very 
important to most companies. That plays as much part of the decision 
process as the speed of development.


[...this part sent in private...]

Regards,
  Graeme

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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus]

On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus
 wrote:
> On 2017-10-28 15:45, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>>
>> As we can see, we can do everything with Object Pascal.
>> Unfortunately, the market don't have the same vision.
>
>
> To be honest, sometimes it is not enough just to be able to do everything
> other languages do.
>
> For example: With Java and Spring Boot I can implement a Enterprise grade
> web application (that can scale over multiple servers etc) with embedded web
> server, object persistence, high grade web security, MVC based web UI all in
> about 5 minutes. Yes, it will be a simple Address Book style application,
> but considering all the features that application has - it's good damn
> impressive for 5 minutes of effort.
>
> I can't see the above being possible with today's FPC and Lazarus.

Maybe using the next version of fcl-web... but I don't know.
But even if FPC could do the same in 1 minute, do you think Java
developers may see Object Pascal with a different thinking? I don't
think so.

> My point is, it is often the speed at which you can develop projects that
> makes a big difference - not just the ability of the language or IDE.

In the other hand, we can to other things faster and better using
Object Pascal than other languages.
But, for me, market doesn't see in that way. They don't (much) care if
you are using the *right* tool for a job. They — most — want to know
if this job could be make by anyone else, not only *specialists*, even
if the project has quality and was delivered faster.

This is a wrong thinking, but it's true and many companies.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus]

On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Paul Breneman via Lazarus
 wrote:
> On 10/28/2017 10:57 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 9:58 PM, Daithi Haxton via Lazarus
>>  wrote:
>>>
 On Oct 27, 2017, at 8:26 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
>>
>> I see many developers working with Object Pascal in similar cases:
>> Machines, embedded, etc.
>> That's really cool... However, is a kind of niche, right?
>
> Yes, but such niches are *nice* so if anyone wants to help out please join
> me: www.ControlPascal.com

Yeah, of course they are. I said that only to understand better. Thanks.

Regards,
Marcos Douglas

PS. For me the website is down.
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus]

On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 4:28 PM, Paul Michell via Lazarus
 wrote:
> On 27/10/17 16:36, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>>
>> I didn't understand when you said "DLL behind the scenes" using web
>> interface.
>> If you can explain, I would appreciate.
>
> The OS programmers are using a Windows server (I think with ASP or some such
> MS technology).  From this they can call the Windows DLL version of the
> transform, then pass the results back to the HTML output.  I was not
> involved in that part of the project, but there is definitely some Free
> Pascal generated code running on their server!

Hmm, I believe you're talking about ActiveX. These ASP pages could
call this `components` directly.
Thanks for explain that.

Regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus]

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 10:39 PM, Michael Thompson
 wrote:
>
> I'm no longer a commercial developer.  However, I continue to carry Lazarus
> around on a USB key.  I frequently work away from home, but where-ever I am,
> whatever I'm working on, I can develop tools to make data processing easier.

I do the same. I have a portable HD with all my environment that is
synchronized every week. It is simple to maintain and portable.
I've never tried do the same with C# or Java environments... :)

> Why Laz/fpc?  wiki/forum/mailing list always have the answers, and there's a
> great community.  Lazarus & Freepascal are both strong mature tools.

I agree.
But, being a "advocate of the devil" and considering other
languages/environments, don't you agree that  Lazarus & Freepascal
could be just a "drop of water in the whole ocean"?

> Wonderful set of packages ship with Lazarus - far more than I need. I also
> carry around CCR (I recently used fpspreadsheet for the first time - awesome
> product).  Only library I use that's not provided as part of the Lazarus
> package is ZEOS for it's Oracle connection.
>
> I keep being surprised by Lazarus. Just keeps going from strength to
> strength.

Yeah. Lazarus and FPC is growing faster nowadays.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus]

On 2017-10-27 17:18, Giuliano Colla via Lazarus wrote:

  2. Secondarily, Lazarus IDE is light years better than Delphi IDE.


That is so TRUE. I'm working full-time in a Delphi job again, using XE3 
which sadly shows the same issues I saw in a trial version of XE10 - so 
in all the "new versions" the same bugs still exist in the latest 
product release. What are Delphi developers actually paying for with 
their monthly subscriptions??? Clearly nothing is happing in the IDE 
front. The joys of the "ransom ware" product model being introduced all 
over the world.


Regards,
  Graeme

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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus]

On 2017-10-28 17:00, Alexander Klenin via Lazarus wrote:

I heard children use "you program in Pascal" as a taunt meaning "you
are not well-educated":)


And the irony is that THEY are probably not well educated on the 
subject. :-D


Regards,
  Graeme

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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Paul Michell via Lazarus]

On 27/10/17 16:36, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Paul Michell via Lazarus
 wrote:

I have used Free Pascal and Lazarus for several production systems over the
last decade or so.  The most recent being for the UK Ordnance Survey:

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/help-and-support/navigation-technology/os-net/grid-inquest.html

The web interface also uses a DLL behind the scenes that is written in Free
Pascal too.  I personally prefer to use Object Pascal for any project and
only swap to some other language if I have to!

Thank you for shared this.
I didn't understand when you said "DLL behind the scenes" using web interface.
If you can explain, I would appreciate.


The OS programmers are using a Windows server (I think with ASP or some 
such MS technology).  From this they can call the Windows DLL version of 
the transform, then pass the results back to the HTML output.  I was not 
involved in that part of the project, but there is definitely some Free 
Pascal generated code running on their server!




Best regards,
Marcos Douglas


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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Alexander Klenin via Lazarus]

On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 1:34 AM, R0b0t1  wrote:

>> Finally, FPC became almost completely unsuitable for competitive
>> programming,
>> which drives away influential part of next programmers generation.
>> At the last year International Olympiad in Informatics I have given a
>> passionate speech
>> against excluding Free Pascal from a list of available languages,
>> and succeeded in postponing that decision for a few years,
>> but the writing is still on the wall.
>>
>> So reluctantly I started to phase out FPC/Lazarus in my work
>> in favor of PascalABC/Python for high school and С++/C# for university.
>> For the record, C# is the only language in that list that I like.
>>
>
> I found something similar. Do you think you can add to your explanation of
> why it is no longer competitive?

At first popularity declined because Pascal did not have efficient
data structures and algorithms in standard library
(which is ironic for a language introduced in a book named "Algorithms
+ Data Structures").
Now, community simply forgot about it.
I heard children use "you program in Pascal" as a taunt meaning "you
are not well-educated" :)

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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[R0b0t1 via Lazarus]

On Saturday, October 28, 2017, Alexander Klenin via Lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:26 PM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
>  wrote:
>> I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
>> Object Pascal nowadays".
>> I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
>> and being more relevant or not.
>
> For many years I have advocated first Delphi, then FreePascal/Lazarus
> as a teaching tool for both high school and introductory university.
> Historically, Delphi/Lazarus offered superior IDE experience,
> while the language itself was both beginner-friendly and powerful when
> learned completely.
>
> Sadly, while on IDE front other IDEs are catching up
> (for example, form designers in both Visual Studio 2017 and latest Qt
> are almost as good, and in some aspects better),
> the language continues to lag behind so much that even 8th graders are
starting
> to complain about missing features.
> Older teachers who prefer Pascal syntax moved to PascalABC,
> which displaced perhaps 90% of FPC usage in Russian high schools.
>

I think this really captures what I wanted to say. Rapid development as a
design methodology seems to have been publicly discredited and forgotten
about, yet people still continue to buy Delphi. The basic design principles
that FreePascal and Lazarus implement are still relevant but the
presentation is a little rough around the edges.

> Finally, FPC became almost completely unsuitable for competitive
programming,
> which drives away influential part of next programmers generation.
> At the last year International Olympiad in Informatics I have given a
> passionate speech
> against excluding Free Pascal from a list of available languages,
> and succeeded in postponing that decision for a few years,
> but the writing is still on the wall.
>
> So reluctantly I started to phase out FPC/Lazarus in my work
> in favor of PascalABC/Python for high school and С++/C# for university.
> For the record, C# is the only language in that list that I like.
>

I found something similar. Do you think you can add to your explanation of
why it is no longer competitive?

Cheers,
R0b0t1.
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Paul Breneman via Lazarus]

On 10/28/2017 10:57 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 9:58 PM, Daithi Haxton via Lazarus
 wrote:



On Oct 27, 2017, at 8:26 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus 
 wrote:

I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.



We use Lazarus/Free Pascal to build all of our production applications.
These are basically instrumentation packages and data loggers for large
machines used in automotive manufacturing and quality control. It’s cross
platform (Linux/Windows), fast and easy to use and maintain.


I see many developers working with Object Pascal in similar cases:
Machines, embedded, etc.
That's really cool... However, is a kind of niche, right?


Yes, but such niches are *nice* so if anyone wants to help out please 
join me: www.ControlPascal.com

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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus]

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 10:42 PM, Luiz Americo Pereira Camara via
Lazarus  wrote:
>
> 2017-10-27 13:12 GMT-03:00 Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
> :
>>
>>
>> I am asking this because sometimes I cannot make a project if I say
>> that will be coded in Object Pascal.
>> I have heard a client saying: We use C# or . We don't have
>> more Pascal programmers to maintain this.
>>
>
> I have similar issue. I'm looking for third party companies to accelerate
> development of my current app (used in production by around 200 people a
> day) and they all say that is obsolete technology and will not find
> programmers to maintain

That is my main issue and I don't know how to solve this using Object Pascal.

>
> The current Delphi (sad) state is not helping...

I agree. It's not stable and the price...

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus]

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 9:58 PM, Daithi Haxton via Lazarus
 wrote:
>
>> On Oct 27, 2017, at 8:26 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
>> Object Pascal nowadays".
>> I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
>> and being more relevant or not.
>>
>
> We use Lazarus/Free Pascal to build all of our production applications.
> These are basically instrumentation packages and data loggers for large
> machines used in automotive manufacturing and quality control. It’s cross
> platform (Linux/Windows), fast and easy to use and maintain.

I see many developers working with Object Pascal in similar cases:
Machines, embedded, etc.
That's really cool... However, is a kind of niche, right?

> What’s not to like?

:)

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus]

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 2:46 PM, Ralf Quint via Lazarus
 wrote:
>
> If you are looking into all "new" stuff, it's nothing more than turning
> into Homer Simpson ("Oh, shiny!"). You spend more time to try and stay
> atop of all the latest fads but don't get anything real done. There
> might be the one or two things that some of those new gadgets can do
> better/easier but in the long run, barely any of them is of
> significance, by any count, in a few years...

I totally agree with you. That is one of the reasons that I continue
using Object Pascal.
I work in a company but I work as a freelancer/consultor as well. I
use Object Pascal in both cases, but as I said in other email,
sometimes it is difficult choose Object Pascal to build software for
my clients because they think that it's an obsolete technology.

> I can do everything I need to do (and then some) with
> FreePascal/Lazarus. Yes, there are some areas where a bit more work is
> needed, like being able to create Android/iOS applications with Lazarus
> in the way it can be done with Delphi, or creating applications for
> macOS. Or coding for embedded stuff with AVR based boards. Something
> that IMHO should be put more focus on than adding the latest fads from
> other programming languages to the compiler, just because some people
> THINK they need this.

+1
I agree, again.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus]

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 2:18 PM, Giuliano Colla via Lazarus
 wrote:
>
> We're working in the field of automatic machines. From textile machines to
> printer post-processing equipments (mainly in the security printers field),
> from coffee roasting machines to chain wear monitoring equipment. We do not
> usually deploy software, but rather we sell control equipments which are
> then integrated by the final manufacturer in the machine.
>
> Our equipments usually include custom embedded controllers and a supervisor
> which may range from an industrial grade PC to a Raspberry PI. It provides
> both the human interface and the real-time high-level process control.
>
> We're also frequently asked to integrate our supervisor into the factory
> data network both to provide production data (for statistical purposes,
> quality assurance, and security) and to fetch process information when
> appropriate. This leads to supplying also small servers which do handle
> network protocols, Data Base handling, creating Reports etc.
>
> We found today's Object Pascal and Lazarus to be the most cost effective
> solution, for a number of reasons. Mainly:
>
> - Object pascal syntax makes it easier to detect programmer errors at compile
> time, thus strongly reducing the debug time.
> - Being most projects quite similar and with very short development time
> allowed, we need readable and self documenting sources, making it easy for
> anyone to modify project A into project B.
> - For the same reason, re-usability of code for us is a must. Again Object
> Pascal is a winner by this POV.
> - Always for the same reason we need a RAD tool, and Lazarus IDE is again a
> winner.
> - We need to interface with our real-time framework with predictable timing,
> and this rules out most of the "modern" languages.
> - Given the relative stability of the Object Pascal language, we may take
> advantage of a huge amount of code we have developed in the past. I've just
> ported to Lazarus a program which was originally developed in the 90's with
> Delphi 3!

As we can see, we can do everything with Object Pascal.
Unfortunately, the market don't have the same vision.

> Many of those reasons apply also to Delphi, but we dropped Delphi long ago
> because:
>
> 1. Primarily, we need Linux support, because of the real-time requirements,
> which aren't achievable in Windows environment. OS-X isn't an option because
> we need industrial grade PC's.
> 2. Secondarily, Lazarus IDE is light years better than Delphi IDE.

I totally agree with you about the second item.

> For sake of completeness, I must add that our real-time framework and the
> real-time tasks are written in C. This was a must when it had to be part of
> a patched Linux kernel, running in kernel space. Now that RT_PREEMP has
> reached maturity and has made its way into the mainline kernel we've been
> able to move the stuff to user space. Therefore we're rewriting most of it
> in Object Pascal, to take advantage of a much lower development and
> maintenance cost.

That is other excellent case study...
Maybe we all could build a website to write those cases and provide
more information about Object Pascal nowadays.

Do you have problems to find new Pascal programmers?

Regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Daithi Haxton via Lazarus]

> On Oct 27, 2017, at 9:35 PM, Fabio Luis Girardi via Lazarus 
>  wrote:
> 
> Em 27 de out de 2017 21:58, "Daithi Haxton via Lazarus" 
> > 
> escreveu:
> 
> > On Oct 27, 2017, at 8:26 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus 
> > > 
> > wrote:
> >
> > I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
> > Object Pascal nowadays".
> > I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
> > and being more relevant or not.
> >
> 
> We use Lazarus/Free Pascal to build all of our production applications. These 
> are basically instrumentation packages and data loggers for large machines 
> used in automotive manufacturing and quality control. It’s cross platform 
> (Linux/Windows), fast and easy to use and maintain. What’s not to like?
> 
> 
> Hi Dave!
> 
> What devices/plc/protocols you are using on your dataloggers?
> 
> 

Our devices are mostly proprietary DSP boards, usually connected via USB but 
sometimes still serial (Synapse is a great lib for the latter, BTW). We use 
mostly AB PLC’s, but sometimes Mitsubishi or Siemens, and we communicate to 
them either via a vendor communication tool (DDE and RS-LINX or TopServer) or  
using the excellent libplctag (see github) to talk directly.
 We’ve looked as Pascal SCADA for HMI work, and will be investigating it 
further in the future, I can assure you.  
The other really nice thing about using Lazarus in our context is the ability 
to load the development environment directly onto the target machine and debug 
in a real environment -  with Visual Studio or other commercial tools that’s 
just not practical due to licensing/cost.

Be well,
Dave H.


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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Giuliano Colla via Lazarus]

Il 28/10/2017 02:42, Luiz Americo Pereira Camara via Lazarus ha scritto:

I have similar issue. I'm looking for third party companies to 
accelerate development of my current app (used in production by around 
200 people a day) and they all say that is obsolete technology and 
will not find programmers to maintain




You might tell them that tombstones are obsolete technology (stone age), 
but nobody has managed to find a more appropriate one for that purpose. 
The attempts to replace them with an iPhone app appear to have failed up 
to now!
The issue is never to use the most modern technology, but the most 
appropriate one.
If their programmers are unable to cope with an appropriate technology, 
but only with the latest one, they'll become useless, as soon as the 
latest technology is replaced by the next whatever.


However keep in mind that using an appropriate technology not widely 
used, has its advantages: you beat the competition of all those who are 
using the latest and inappropriate, because you'll provide a better 
result at a lower cost.


Giuliano

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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Alexander Klenin via Lazarus]

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:26 PM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
 wrote:
> I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
> Object Pascal nowadays".
> I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
> and being more relevant or not.

For many years I have advocated first Delphi, then FreePascal/Lazarus
as a teaching tool for both high school and introductory university.
Historically, Delphi/Lazarus offered superior IDE experience,
while the language itself was both beginner-friendly and powerful when
learned completely.

Sadly, while on IDE front other IDEs are catching up
(for example, form designers in both Visual Studio 2017 and latest Qt
are almost as good, and in some aspects better),
the language continues to lag behind so much that even 8th graders are starting
to complain about missing features.
Older teachers who prefer Pascal syntax moved to PascalABC,
which displaced perhaps 90% of FPC usage in Russian high schools.

Finally, FPC became almost completely unsuitable for competitive programming,
which drives away influential part of next programmers generation.
At the last year International Olympiad in Informatics I have given a
passionate speech
against excluding Free Pascal from a list of available languages,
and succeeded in postponing that decision for a few years,
but the writing is still on the wall.

So reluctantly I started to phase out FPC/Lazarus in my work
in favor of PascalABC/Python for high school and С++/C# for university.
For the record, C# is the only language in that list that I like.

-- 
Alexander S. Klenin
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[R0b0t1 via Lazarus]

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 7:26 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
 wrote:
> I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
> Object Pascal nowadays".
> I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
> and being more relevant or not.
>
> I use Object Pascal (mostly FPC, some old Delphi) in production to
> make real applications. But we are seeing more and more "new
> frameworks", "new technologies" and new languages that are become more
> relevant.
>
> What do you think?
>

Hello,

I work with a project (Simba: http://wizzup.org/simba/) that was
written in FreePascal using Lazarus. One of the main issues with Simba
was the necessity of creating wrappers for most of what needed to be
accomplished. On a more personal note, I find Lazarus very useful for
quick GUI prototypes, but the lack of supporting infrastructure makes
it hard to use sometimes.

I appreciate the development that does take place and wish more could.
I have tried to find ways to help off and on, but all the problems
that are left are very involved.

A more impressive contribution to the list was planned but I forgot
what I was going to write. However, if you wanted to know if what you
do is useful, then yes, I think it is.

Cheers,
 R0b0t1.
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[coppolastudio via Lazarus]

I done some applications with Lazarus-FPC to simplifing my job and about new developpers the key is the School e the University where I got Pascal. Another interesting things to assess healt status of Pasca/Lazarus community could be the age of all' of you. I'm 48 years old

Inviato tramite il client di Posta WPSIl 27/ott/2017 14:26, "Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus"  ha scritto:I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.
I use Object Pascal (mostly FPC, some old Delphi) in production to
make real applications. But we are seeing more and more "new
frameworks", "new technologies" and new languages that are become more
relevant.
What do you think?
Thanks.
Regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Luiz Americo Pereira Camara via Lazarus]

2017-10-27 13:12 GMT-03:00 Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org>:

>
> I am asking this because sometimes I cannot make a project if I say
> that will be coded in Object Pascal.
> I have heard a client saying: We use C# or . We don't have
> more Pascal programmers to maintain this.
>
>
I have similar issue. I'm looking for third party companies to accelerate
development of my current app (used in production by around 200 people a
day) and they all say that is obsolete technology and will not find
programmers to maintain

The current Delphi (sad) state is not helping...

Luiz
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Michael Thompson via Lazarus]

On 27 October 2017 at 20:26, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

> I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
> Object Pascal nowadays".
> I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
> and being more relevant or not.
>

I'm no longer a commercial developer.  However, I continue to carry Lazarus
around on a USB key.  I frequently work away from home, but where-ever I
am, whatever I'm working on, I can develop tools to make data processing
easier.  Why Laz/fpc?  wiki/forum/mailing list always have the answers, and
there's a great community.  Lazarus & Freepascal are both strong mature
tools.  Wonderful set of packages ship with Lazarus - far more than I need.
I also carry around CCR (I recently used fpspreadsheet for the first time -
awesome product).  Only library I use that's not provided as part of the
Lazarus package is ZEOS for it's Oracle connection.

I keep being surprised by Lazarus. Just keeps going from strength to
strength.

Mike
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Daithi Haxton via Lazarus]

> On Oct 27, 2017, at 8:26 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus 
>  wrote:
> 
> I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
> Object Pascal nowadays".
> I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
> and being more relevant or not.
> 

We use Lazarus/Free Pascal to build all of our production applications. These 
are basically instrumentation packages and data loggers for large machines used 
in automotive manufacturing and quality control. It’s cross platform 
(Linux/Windows), fast and easy to use and maintain. What’s not to like?

Be well,
Dave H.


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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Florian Klämpfl via Lazarus]

Am 27.10.2017 um 15:54 schrieb Michalis Kamburelis via Lazarus:
> and we plan to release a Steam
> game next year. 

Hope you tell us when it is available :)
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Ralf Quint via Lazarus]

On 10/27/2017 5:26 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
> I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
> Object Pascal nowadays".
> I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
> and being more relevant or not.
>
> I use Object Pascal (mostly FPC, some old Delphi) in production to
> make real applications. But we are seeing more and more "new
> frameworks", "new technologies" and new languages that are become more
> relevant.
>
> What do you think?
If you are looking into all "new" stuff, it's nothing more than turning
into Homer Simpson ("Oh, shiny!"). You spend more time to try and stay
atop of all the latest fads but don't get anything real done. There
might be the one or two things that some of those new gadgets can do
better/easier but in the long run, barely any of them is of
significance, by any count, in a few years...

I can do everything I need to do (and then some) with
FreePascal/Lazarus. Yes, there are some areas where a bit more work is
needed, like being able to create Android/iOS applications with Lazarus
in the way it can be done with Delphi, or creating applications for
macOS. Or coding for embedded stuff with AVR based boards. Something
that IMHO should be put more focus on than adding the latest fads from
other programming languages to the compiler, just because some people
THINK they need this.

Ralf


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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Fabio Luis Girardi via Lazarus]

2017-10-27 14:18 GMT-02:00 Giuliano Colla via Lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org>:


> We're working in the field of automatic machines. From textile machines to
> printer post-processing equipments (mainly in the security printers field),
> from coffee roasting machines to chain wear monitoring equipment. We do not
> usually deploy software, but rather we sell control equipments which are
> then integrated by the final manufacturer in the machine.
>
> Our equipments usually include custom embedded controllers and a
> supervisor which may range from an industrial grade PC to a Raspberry PI.
> It provides both the human interface and the real-time high-level process
> control.
>
> We're also frequently asked to integrate our supervisor into the factory
> data network both to provide production data (for statistical purposes,
> quality assurance, and security) and to fetch process information when
> appropriate. This leads to supplying also small servers which do handle
> network protocols, Data Base handling, creating Reports etc.
>
> We found today's Object Pascal and Lazarus to be the most cost effective
> solution, for a number of reasons. Mainly:
>
>- Object pascal syntax makes it easier to detect programmer errors at
>compile time, thus strongly reducing the debug time.
>- Being most projects quite similar and with very short development
>time allowed, we need readable and self documenting sources, making it easy
>for anyone to modify project A into project B.
>- For the same reason, re-usability of code for us is a must. Again
>Object Pascal is a winner by this POV.
>- Always for the same reason we need a RAD tool, and Lazarus IDE is
>again a winner.
>- We need to interface with our real-time framework with predictable
>timing, and this rules out most of the "modern" languages.
>- Given the relative stability of the Object Pascal language, we may
>take advantage of a huge amount of code we have developed in the past. I've
>just ported to Lazarus a program which was originally developed in the 90's
>with Delphi 3!
>
> Many of those reasons apply also to Delphi, but we dropped Delphi long ago
> because:
>
>1. Primarily, we need Linux support, because of the real-time
>requirements, which aren't achievable in Windows environment. OS-X isn't an
>option because we need industrial grade PC's.
>2. Secondarily, Lazarus IDE is light years better than Delphi IDE.
>
>
When I  started the PascalSCADA project, these are the reasons why I choose
Lazarus/FPC. Now, some years ago, I'm happy with my choice, and it's the
main tool number here in my company.


The best regards,

Fabio Luis Girardi
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Giuliano Colla via Lazarus]

Il 27/10/2017 14:26, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus ha scritto:

I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.

I use Object Pascal (mostly FPC, some old Delphi) in production to
make real applications. But we are seeing more and more "new
frameworks", "new technologies" and new languages that are become more
relevant.

What do you think?

Thanks.

Regards,
Marcos Douglas



We're working in the field of automatic machines. From textile machines 
to printer post-processing equipments (mainly in the security printers 
field), from coffee roasting machines to chain wear monitoring 
equipment. We do not usually deploy software, but rather we sell control 
equipments which are then integrated by the final manufacturer in the 
machine.


Our equipments usually include custom embedded controllers and a 
supervisor which may range from an industrial grade PC to a Raspberry 
PI. It provides both the human interface and the real-time high-level 
process control.


We're also frequently asked to integrate our supervisor into the factory 
data network both to provide production data (for statistical purposes, 
quality assurance, and security) and to fetch process information when 
appropriate. This leads to supplying also small servers which do handle 
network protocols, Data Base handling, creating Reports etc.


We found today's Object Pascal and Lazarus to be the most cost effective 
solution, for a number of reasons. Mainly:


 * Object pascal syntax makes it easier to detect programmer errors at
   compile time, thus strongly reducing the debug time.
 * Being most projects quite similar and with very short development
   time allowed, we need readable and self documenting sources, making
   it easy for anyone to modify project A into project B.
 * For the same reason, re-usability of code for us is a must. Again
   Object Pascal is a winner by this POV.
 * Always for the same reason we need a RAD tool, and Lazarus IDE is
   again a winner.
 * We need to interface with our real-time framework with predictable
   timing, and this rules out most of the "modern" languages.
 * Given the relative stability of the Object Pascal language, we may
   take advantage of a huge amount of code we have developed in the
   past. I've just ported to Lazarus a program which was originally
   developed in the 90's with Delphi 3!

Many of those reasons apply also to Delphi, but we dropped Delphi long 
ago because:


1. Primarily, we need Linux support, because of the real-time
   requirements, which aren't achievable in Windows environment. OS-X
   isn't an option because we need industrial grade PC's.
2. Secondarily, Lazarus IDE is light years better than Delphi IDE.

For sake of completeness, I must add that our real-time framework and 
the real-time tasks are written in C. This was a must when it had to be 
part of a patched Linux kernel, running in kernel space. Now that 
RT_PREEMP has reached maturity and has made its way into the mainline 
kernel we've been able to move the stuff to user space. Therefore we're 
rewriting most of it in Object Pascal, to take advantage of a much lower 
development and maintenance cost.


Giuliano

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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production? (fwd)

[Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus]

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos wrote:


So. For all these reasons, I use Object Pascal. I can take my 10 year old
application, recompile, and be reasonably sure it will still work.


WOW... Actually, you have good reasons. I liked.

I am asking this because sometimes I cannot make a project if I say
that will be coded in Object Pascal.
I have heard a client saying: We use C# or . We don't have
more Pascal programmers to maintain this.

To develop desktop apps, it's not a problem. But if it will be a web
app, could be.
I will use your text, next time.  :)

About performance, do you believe that FastCGI is good or even better
than these other technologies?


It is equally good. For quick stuff I use plain old cgi.
I use FastCGI for performance critical external apps.
For some internal apps, I use standalone http server.

The web stack of FPC is such that it does not matter which one you use.
You can simply recompile your app with a different uses clause and it is
switched from cgi/fastcgi/standalone.
The rest is a matter of configuring your webserver...

Michael.
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Fabio Luis Girardi via Lazarus]

I'm using Object Pascal to develop a lot of real SCADA applications. You
can see some of then in:

http://www.pascalscada.com/pb/screenshots/

Some applications are made by me or my company (Eletromep), others by
friends or people that have contributed with PascalSCADA project.

2017-10-27 14:12 GMT-02:00 Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org>:

> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:13 PM, Michael Van Canneyt
>  wrote:
> >
> > Where to start ?
> >
> > Go is a very nice language, but is very difficult to get to work with
> > external libraries. Writing imports can be next to impossible.
> > Our server needs to do LOTS of things that simply cannot be done in Go,
> > since Go doesn't have the necessary functionality (or libraries, or
> modules)
> > so we'd need to offload that to C libs, which kind of defeats the
> purpose.
> >
> > Java would be a possibility, but
> >
> > a) I don't know Java so well. Java is HUGE.
> >
> > b) Then you need to deal with the Java VM and Tomcat and whatnot.
> >Not pleasant. Recently we had a java service completely unresponsive
> for
> >30 seconds, it was doing GC... Not acceptable at all.
> >
> > Node.js is nice for some scripting, but IMO Javascript is not suitable
> for
> > large
> > applications. Complete absence of type checking or any form of
> compilation
> > is a disaster for large projects.
> >
> > Additionally, when using Node.js, you almost inevitably come into contact
> > with npm.
> > We built some mobile apps using a web runtime, and typical usage for
> Node.js
> > is packaging of the app. This typically uses npm.
> >
> > npm pulled in 1200+ npm packages (100+mb), to pack an application of 1200
> > lines
> > of javascript. Not a joke. I actually checked. And to pack an
> application in
> > essence means:
> > creating a zip. IMO the people using node.js and npm are deluded, to
> allow
> > such a mess.
> >
> > Suffices that 1 of the 1200 packages for what reason whatsoever is
> broken,
> > retracted or whatnot: the whole system comes crashing down...
> >
> > (The upcoming pas2js can target node.js, and I am confident you will not
> > need npm.)
> >
> > To make matters worse, javascript developers have no sense of time.
> > They actually think that completely breaking backwards compatibility
> after 2
> > years is OK.
> > For example, the change of Angular to Angular 2 (and subsequent changes)
> > made me decide that Angular is unsuitable for development - despite all
> the
> > nifty features.
> >
> > The average lifetime of applications I make is many many years.
> > So, backwards compatibility is VERY important.
> >
> > So. For all these reasons, I use Object Pascal. I can take my 10 year old
> > application, recompile, and be reasonably sure it will still work.
>
> WOW... Actually, you have good reasons. I liked.
>
> I am asking this because sometimes I cannot make a project if I say
> that will be coded in Object Pascal.
> I have heard a client saying: We use C# or . We don't have
> more Pascal programmers to maintain this.
>
> To develop desktop apps, it's not a problem. But if it will be a web
> app, could be.
> I will use your text, next time.  :)
>
> About performance, do you believe that FastCGI is good or even better
> than these other technologies?
>
> Best regards,
> Marcos Douglas
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Fabio Luis Girardi
PascalSCADA Project
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pascalscada
http://www.pascalscada.com
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Michalis Kamburelis via Lazarus]

27.10.2017 5:32 PM "Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus" <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org> napisał(a):

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Michalis Kamburelis via Lazarus
 wrote:
>
> We use Object Pascal (FPC) to develop games, with my "Castle Game
> Engine", as part of the "Cat-astrophe Games" studio. We make Android
> and iOS games ("Escape from the Universe" is our main title now, with
> iOS release hopefully in ~2 weeks), and we plan to release a Steam
> game next year. So, both mobile and desktop.

Yeah, that is a excellent case study.
I believe most game programmers are using C/C++ and Lua.
Is it difficult to you find Pascal programmers?


We're an indie game studio, which practically just means that we're small.
So we did not yet need to hire additional programmers. A few persons work
on a project -- one full-time dev (me), one full-time graphic artist (for
2d and 3d..) and as we go along we often hire additional people for art and
sound.

>From the game communities and conferences, I see that most game programmers
right now use Unity 3d and C#.

>From talking with other programmers, I see that almost everyone has a basic
knowledge of Pascal, so that was very good. But many people don't know
things beyond Turbo Pascal features, and they only heard about Delphi but
don't know if it even still exists. So you need to explain to them how
stuff like classes looks like in Object Pascal -- which is easy, since they
know these concepts from other languages, you only need to show them the
syntax in Pascal (this is how I started to write my "Modern Pascal
Introduction for Programmers").

Also, in this field, people care a lot about the game engine features, and
the programming language is only one factor in this -- so even those that
were doubtful about the usage of Pascal, were still interested in Castle
Game Engine features.

Bottom line: when we'll be hiring, I'll definitely not limit the search to
Pascal programmers. It seems you can take a good programmer from any OOP
language, and if (s)he's really good, (s)he will pick up Pascal along the
way of learning the game engine. I know that many Unity3d programmers
learned C# along the way of learning Unity3d (come to think of it, so did I
:) ).

Regards,
Michalis
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus]

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:13 PM, Michael Van Canneyt
 wrote:
>
> Where to start ?
>
> Go is a very nice language, but is very difficult to get to work with
> external libraries. Writing imports can be next to impossible.
> Our server needs to do LOTS of things that simply cannot be done in Go,
> since Go doesn't have the necessary functionality (or libraries, or modules)
> so we'd need to offload that to C libs, which kind of defeats the purpose.
>
> Java would be a possibility, but
>
> a) I don't know Java so well. Java is HUGE.
>
> b) Then you need to deal with the Java VM and Tomcat and whatnot.
>Not pleasant. Recently we had a java service completely unresponsive for
>30 seconds, it was doing GC... Not acceptable at all.
>
> Node.js is nice for some scripting, but IMO Javascript is not suitable for
> large
> applications. Complete absence of type checking or any form of compilation
> is a disaster for large projects.
>
> Additionally, when using Node.js, you almost inevitably come into contact
> with npm.
> We built some mobile apps using a web runtime, and typical usage for Node.js
> is packaging of the app. This typically uses npm.
>
> npm pulled in 1200+ npm packages (100+mb), to pack an application of 1200
> lines
> of javascript. Not a joke. I actually checked. And to pack an application in
> essence means:
> creating a zip. IMO the people using node.js and npm are deluded, to allow
> such a mess.
>
> Suffices that 1 of the 1200 packages for what reason whatsoever is broken,
> retracted or whatnot: the whole system comes crashing down...
>
> (The upcoming pas2js can target node.js, and I am confident you will not
> need npm.)
>
> To make matters worse, javascript developers have no sense of time.
> They actually think that completely breaking backwards compatibility after 2
> years is OK.
> For example, the change of Angular to Angular 2 (and subsequent changes)
> made me decide that Angular is unsuitable for development - despite all the
> nifty features.
>
> The average lifetime of applications I make is many many years.
> So, backwards compatibility is VERY important.
>
> So. For all these reasons, I use Object Pascal. I can take my 10 year old
> application, recompile, and be reasonably sure it will still work.

WOW... Actually, you have good reasons. I liked.

I am asking this because sometimes I cannot make a project if I say
that will be coded in Object Pascal.
I have heard a client saying: We use C# or . We don't have
more Pascal programmers to maintain this.

To develop desktop apps, it's not a problem. But if it will be a web
app, could be.
I will use your text, next time.  :)

About performance, do you believe that FastCGI is good or even better
than these other technologies?

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus]

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Aurimenes Apolonio via Lazarus
 wrote:
> I'm starting my company based entirely in Lazarus. It's an ERP application,
> with desktop and web modules.
>
> I believe we can do (almost) everything with FPC/Lazarus.

+1
I agree.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus]

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Paul Michell via Lazarus
 wrote:
> I have used Free Pascal and Lazarus for several production systems over the
> last decade or so.  The most recent being for the UK Ordnance Survey:
>
> https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/help-and-support/navigation-technology/os-net/grid-inquest.html
>
> The web interface also uses a DLL behind the scenes that is written in Free
> Pascal too.  I personally prefer to use Object Pascal for any project and
> only swap to some other language if I have to!

Thank you for shared this.
I didn't understand when you said "DLL behind the scenes" using web interface.
If you can explain, I would appreciate.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus]

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Michalis Kamburelis via Lazarus
 wrote:
>
> We use Object Pascal (FPC) to develop games, with my "Castle Game
> Engine", as part of the "Cat-astrophe Games" studio. We make Android
> and iOS games ("Escape from the Universe" is our main title now, with
> iOS release hopefully in ~2 weeks), and we plan to release a Steam
> game next year. So, both mobile and desktop.

Yeah, that is a excellent case study.
I believe most game programmers are using C/C++ and Lua.
Is it difficult to you find Pascal programmers?

Regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[David Taylor via Lazarus]

On 27/10/2017 13:26, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:

I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.

I use Object Pascal (mostly FPC, some old Delphi) in production to
make real applications. But we are seeing more and more "new
frameworks", "new technologies" and new languages that are become more
relevant.

What do you think?

Thanks.

Regards,
Marcos Douglas


I use Delphi almost exclusively, and I write desktop programs (some 
command-line stuff too).  The only exception is a small amount of Perl 
where someone had already written some code, but even that is moving to 
using FreeImage and NetCDF libraries with Delphi 2009 and a very little 
Delphi 10.1 for 64-bit benefits.  My only Lazarus program has been a 
digital clock for the Raspberry Pi.


Many of my users are still on VB6!

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David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus]

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:


On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:32 AM, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
 wrote:


I use it almost exclusively on the server. Webservice, REST related stuff.

But there are many domains where Object Pascal still works very well.


You've been doing a great job on fcl-web (thanks).
I have REST services running on Windows IIS with FastCGI.

I would like to ask you: Why not use Node.js, Go, or even Java?
Is it just because you know more Pascal or, also, because you have
some advantages using it on the server?


Where to start ?

Go is a very nice language, but is very difficult to get to work with 
external libraries. Writing imports can be next to impossible.

Our server needs to do LOTS of things that simply cannot be done in Go,
since Go doesn't have the necessary functionality (or libraries, or modules)
so we'd need to offload that to C libs, which kind of defeats the purpose.

Java would be a possibility, but

a) I don't know Java so well. Java is HUGE.

b) Then you need to deal with the Java VM and Tomcat and whatnot.
   Not pleasant. Recently we had a java service completely unresponsive for
   30 seconds, it was doing GC... Not acceptable at all.

Node.js is nice for some scripting, but IMO Javascript is not suitable for large
applications. Complete absence of type checking or any form of compilation
is a disaster for large projects.

Additionally, when using Node.js, you almost inevitably come into contact with 
npm.
We built some mobile apps using a web runtime, and typical usage for Node.js is 
packaging of the app. This typically uses npm.


npm pulled in 1200+ npm packages (100+mb), to pack an application of 1200 lines
of javascript. 
Not a joke. I actually checked. And to pack an application in essence means:

creating a zip. IMO the people using node.js and npm are deluded, to allow
such a mess.

Suffices that 1 of the 1200 packages for what reason whatsoever is broken,
retracted or whatnot: the whole system comes crashing down...

(The upcoming pas2js can target node.js, and I am confident you will not need 
npm.)

To make matters worse, javascript developers have no sense of time.
They actually think that completely breaking backwards compatibility after 2 
years is OK.
For example, the change of Angular to Angular 2 (and subsequent changes) made me decide 
that Angular is unsuitable for development - despite all the nifty features.


The average lifetime of applications I make is many many years.
So, backwards compatibility is VERY important.

So. 
For all these reasons, I use Object Pascal. I can take my 10 year old

application, recompile, and be reasonably sure it will still work.

Michael.
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Paul Michell via Lazarus]

I have used Free Pascal and Lazarus for several production systems over 
the last decade or so.  The most recent being for the UK Ordnance Survey:


https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/help-and-support/navigation-technology/os-net/grid-inquest.html

The web interface also uses a DLL behind the scenes that is written in 
Free Pascal too.  I personally prefer to use Object Pascal for any 
project and only swap to some other language if I have to!


Kind regards,

Paul Michell
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Leonardo M. Ramé via Lazarus]

El 27/10/17 a las 09:26, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus escribió:

I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.

I use Object Pascal (mostly FPC, some old Delphi) in production to
make real applications. But we are seeing more and more "new
frameworks", "new technologies" and new languages that are become more
relevant.

What do you think?

Thanks.

Regards,
Marcos Douglas



I use exclusively for "real" applications, on every kind of projects, 
desktop, command line tools, CGIs...


Some times I'm forced to use C/C++ toolkits (because there's no 
alternative), some times Python (for interfacing Libreoffice UNO) or 
HTML/CSS/JS for client side web, but apart from that, I always use 
FPC/Lazarus for *real* apps.


Regards,
--
Leonardo M. Ramé
Medical IT - Griensu S.A.
Av. Colón 636 - Piso 8 Of. A
X5000EPT -- Córdoba
Tel.: +54(351)4246924 +54(351)4247788 +54(351)4247979 int. 19
Cel.: +54 9 (011) 40871877
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Aurimenes Apolonio via Lazarus]

I'm starting my company based entirely in Lazarus. It's an ERP application,
with desktop and web modules.

I believe we can do (almost) everything with FPC/Lazarus.

*Aurimenes Apolônio Silva*
Desenvolvedor de Software
Fones: (81) 99935-9066 / 4101-5689

2017-10-27 10:39 GMT-03:00 Celâl Emre ÖZ via Lazarus <
lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org>:

> I use Lazarus for all my applications. Device monitoring software, our
> account mang. and ERP applc.
>
> 2017-10-27 16:32 GMT+03:00 Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus <
> lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org>:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 27 Oct 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 10:53 AM, Alexey via Lazarus
>>>  wrote:
>>>
 What do you think?
>

 I think, new langs are for other tasks. Go- for web servers; Rust- maybe
 concurrent or not (used for browser). JS based langs- for web. Kotlin-
 for
 Java. 90% of new langs - for other tasks.

>>>
>>> And Object Pascal is for... desktop?
>>>
>>> We can do almost everything with Pascal but people don't see in that way.
>>>
>>
>> I use it almost exclusively on the server. Webservice, REST related stuff.
>>
>> But there are many domains where Object Pascal still works very well.
>>
>> Michael.
>>
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>
>
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Michalis Kamburelis via Lazarus]

2017-10-27 14:26 GMT+02:00 Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
:
> I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
> Object Pascal nowadays".
> I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
> and being more relevant or not.
>
> I use Object Pascal (mostly FPC, some old Delphi) in production to
> make real applications. But we are seeing more and more "new
> frameworks", "new technologies" and new languages that are become more
> relevant.
>

We use Object Pascal (FPC) to develop games, with my "Castle Game
Engine", as part of the "Cat-astrophe Games" studio. We make Android
and iOS games ("Escape from the Universe" is our main title now, with
iOS release hopefully in ~2 weeks), and we plan to release a Steam
game next year. So, both mobile and desktop.

Regards,
Michalis
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus]

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Celâl Emre ÖZ via Lazarus
 wrote:
> I use Lazarus for all my applications. Device monitoring software, our
> account mang. and ERP applc.

Me too. The "problem" is find more people to work with Object Pascal.
Do you have this problem in your company?

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus]

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:32 AM, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
 wrote:
>
> I use it almost exclusively on the server. Webservice, REST related stuff.
>
> But there are many domains where Object Pascal still works very well.

You've been doing a great job on fcl-web (thanks).
I have REST services running on Windows IIS with FastCGI.

I would like to ask you: Why not use Node.js, Go, or even Java?
Is it just because you know more Pascal or, also, because you have
some advantages using it on the server?

Regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Mark Morgan Lloyd via Lazarus]

On 27/10/17 12:30, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:

I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance ofObject Pascal 
nowadays".I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growingand 
being more relevant or not.
I use Object Pascal (mostly FPC, some old Delphi) in production tomake real applications. But we 
are seeing more and more "newframeworks", "new technologies" and new languages 
that are become morerelevant.
What do you think?


We are, but for in-house services rather than selling stuff for outside use.

If challenged I call it a 4GL, in the vein of the 4GLs that were popular 
in the late 80s and early 90s. It's an exceptionally good tool for 
certain types of job, and the fact that it is descended from Pascal is 
irrelevant.


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
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Re: [Lazarus] Who is using Object Pascal in production?

[Alexey via Lazarus]

>What do you think?

I think, new langs are for other tasks. Go- for web servers; Rust- maybe 
concurrent or not (used for browser). JS based langs- for web. Kotlin- 
for Java. 90% of new langs - for other tasks.


--
Regards,
Alexey

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