Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 1:17 PM, Kent Tenney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think 'close enough' requires that at least the documentation match the behavior, otherwise there's potential for wasting a lot of time trying to figure out what is going on. I agree. Is there a mismatch at present? However, I think we have different attitudes towards configuration. I am looking for the simplest approach that could possibly work. Imo, the standard way fits this criterion. The default settings are in config/leoSettings.leo, the users overrides are in home/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo, and all other tweaks are in the .leo files being opened. This organization, in combination with @ifplatform and @ifhostname trees, should be flexible enough for everyone. Trying to make sense of every possible permutation and combination of multiple leoSettings.leo and myLeoSettings.leo nodes in all possible directories will be a thankless task. The docs, even if accurate, it would be neither clear nor helpful. Edward --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Edward K. Ream [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 1:17 PM, Kent Tenney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think 'close enough' requires that at least the documentation match the behavior, otherwise there's potential for wasting a lot of time trying to figure out what is going on. I agree. Is there a mismatch at present? However, I think we have different attitudes towards configuration. I am looking for the simplest approach that could possibly work. Imo, the standard way fits this criterion. The default settings are in config/leoSettings.leo, the users overrides are in home/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo, and all other tweaks are in the .leo files being opened. This organization, in combination with @ifplatform and @ifhostname trees, should be flexible enough for everyone. Trying to make sense of every possible permutation and combination of multiple leoSettings.leo and myLeoSettings.leo nodes in all possible directories will be a thankless task. The docs, even if accurate, it would be neither clear nor helpful. I thought Leo obeyed this simple rule: - the last setting read is used (plugins are a bit special) Is this true? If so, all possible permutation and combinations is strictly a matter of which files are read, and in which order. Currently it seems to be; - leo/src/config/leoSettings.leo - home/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo - cwd/myLeoSettings.leo - current file The doc you described a couple posts back doesn't mention cwd/myLeoSettings.leo, and there seems to be ambiguity around the behaviour of home/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo vs home/myLeoSettings.leo The continued confusion on this point leads me to believe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure what it is. I've got a bulldog grip on @settings, won't let go. I think they're the key. Thanks, Kent Edward --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Kent Tenney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought Leo obeyed this simple rule: - the last setting read is used (plugins are a bit special) Is this true? True. If so, all possible permutation and combinations is strictly a matter of which files are read, and in which order. True, but it seems needlessly confusing to have more than one myLeoSetting.leo file being active at any one time. Currently it seems to be; - leo/src/config/leoSettings.leo - home/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo - cwd/myLeoSettings.leo - current file The doc you described a couple posts back doesn't mention cwd/myLeoSettings.leo, and there seems to be ambiguity around the behaviour of home/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo vs home/myLeoSettings.leo I mis-remembered the exact rule, which is implicitly defined in the node: Code--Core classes--@thin leoConfig.py--class configClass--Scanning @settings (g.app.config)--g.app.config.readSettingsFiles helpers It appears that Leo will, in fact, read all the settings files in the table, so it is possible to have several myLeoSettings.leo files being active. And yes, I suspect that cwd gets searched. But I don't expect to remember the exact details for more than 5 minutes, and I don't expect anyone else to know or care about these details either. You are making my main point for me: if you have lots of settings files lying around, you *will* get confused no matter how good my documentation. People just are not good at making sense of a huge number of choices. The path to clarity is to voluntarily limit your choices: pick *one* place (home/.leo) for your myLeoSettings.leo file, and *one* place (leo/config) for your leoSettings.leo file. Edward --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:53:15 -0500 Edward K. Ream [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The path to clarity is to voluntarily limit your choices: pick *one* place (home/.leo) for your myLeoSettings.leo file, and *one* place (leo/config) for your leoSettings.leo file. Yes but :-) home/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo is for personal leo settings, but cwd/myLeoSettings.leo can be used to customize the behavior of .leo files in cwd, which is an important feature if Leo is going to be highly configurable for different applications. Cheers -Terry --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Terry Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:53:15 -0500 Edward K. Ream [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The path to clarity is to voluntarily limit your choices: pick *one* place (home/.leo) for your myLeoSettings.leo file, and *one* place (leo/config) for your leoSettings.leo file. Yes but :-) home/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo is for personal leo settings, but cwd/myLeoSettings.leo can be used to customize the behavior of .leo files in cwd, which is an important feature if Leo is going to be highly configurable for different applications. All right. Is there anything except documentation that should change? Edward --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Edward K. Ream [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Terry Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:53:15 -0500 Edward K. Ream [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The path to clarity is to voluntarily limit your choices: pick *one* place (home/.leo) for your myLeoSettings.leo file, and *one* place (leo/config) for your leoSettings.leo file. Yes but :-) home/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo is for personal leo settings, but cwd/myLeoSettings.leo can be used to customize the behavior of .leo files in cwd, which is an important feature if Leo is going to be highly configurable for different applications. All right. Such enthusiasm! :-] Is there anything except documentation that should change? Personally, I'd like to see: - determine the optimal configuration behaviour - implement it - provide tests for it - document it Maybe this is already done, however I think there are untested cases, I spend quite a bit of time fussing with configuration surprises. Personally, I'd like to see another config file available via -c on the command line: (a common idiom) leo myproject.leo -c /usr/lib/myproject/myLeoSettings.leo or better yet: leo myproject.leo -c /etc/leo/style01.leo leo myotherproject.leo -c /etc/leo/style02.leo leo anotherproject.leo -c /etc/leo/style23.leo Each file opens in an editor with the shortcuts, buttons, commands, plugins, appearance etc. that has been tuned for that data management task. or best yet: leo myproject.leo -c /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/leo/config/style94.leo the Leo community contributes their brilliance to a library of settings files. When I look at Leo I see a platform to build with, and as such, the @settings are akin to source code, extremely important. Thanks, Kent Edward --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
Just a recap. given the following myLeoSettings.leo files: home/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo home/myLeoSettings.leo cwd/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo cwd/myLeoSettings.leo I get the following: reading settings in /home/ktenney/src/leo-editor/leo/config/leoSettings.leo reading settings in /home/ktenney/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo reading settings in /home/ktenney/work/docubi/myLeoSettings.leo reading settings in /home/ktenney/work/docubi/start.leo indicating that; home: ONLY the home/.leo dir is searched, not home/ cwd: ONLY the 'cwd' dir is searched, not cwd/.leo Is this expected?, documented? The difference between behaviour in home/ and cwd/ will trip me up, I'll forget which is handled how. Thanks, Kent On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Edward K. Ream [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 16, 12:39 pm, Alia K [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 for the following unix-like structure for per user leo settings: $HOME/.leo leoID.txt myLeoSettings.leo etc.. rev 891 now uses this directory structure for all files that were formerly in the $HOME directory. Leo will create the .leo sub- directory as needed, but Leo will not copy files from $HOME to $HOME/.leo. The easiest way to convert to the new scheme is to create the $HOME/.leo yourself, and then move files from $HOME to $HOME/.leo. That should give you exactly the same behavior as before. Otherwise, Leo may prompt you for the leoID.txt file, and my use myLeoSettings.leo found in other places. This is likely to be the last substantial change before Leo 4.5 final. I expect to release Leo 4.5 b4 on Monday and possibly Leo 4.5 final on Friday. Please report any problems immediately. Edward --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Kent Tenney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a recap. given the following myLeoSettings.leo files: home/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo home/myLeoSettings.leo cwd/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo cwd/myLeoSettings.leo I get the following: reading settings in /home/ktenney/src/leo-editor/leo/config/leoSettings.leo reading settings in /home/ktenney/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo reading settings in /home/ktenney/work/docubi/myLeoSettings.leo reading settings in /home/ktenney/work/docubi/start.leo indicating that; home: ONLY the home/.leo dir is searched, not home/ cwd: ONLY the 'cwd' dir is searched, not cwd/.leo Yes, this is expected. I don't want Leo creating .leo directories except in the home directory. As far as being documented, I just changed chapter 8 so it says: Leo stores options in [EMAIL PROTECTED] trees, that is, parts of Leo outlines whose root node has the headline [EMAIL PROTECTED] When opening a .leo file, Leo looks for [EMAIL PROTECTED] trees in the following places: - The file ``leoSettings.leo`` in the leo/config directory. - The file ``leoSettings.leo`` in the user's home/.leo directory. - The file ``myLeoSettings.leo`` in the leo/config directory. - The file ``myLeoSettings.leo`` in the user's home/.leo directory. - The file being loaded. I think that is close enough to the truth. Edward --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Edward K. Ream [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Kent Tenney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a recap. given the following myLeoSettings.leo files: home/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo home/myLeoSettings.leo cwd/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo cwd/myLeoSettings.leo I get the following: reading settings in /home/ktenney/src/leo-editor/leo/config/leoSettings.leo reading settings in /home/ktenney/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo reading settings in /home/ktenney/work/docubi/myLeoSettings.leo reading settings in /home/ktenney/work/docubi/start.leo indicating that; home: ONLY the home/.leo dir is searched, not home/ cwd: ONLY the 'cwd' dir is searched, not cwd/.leo Yes, this is expected. I don't want Leo creating .leo directories except in the home directory. As far as being documented, I just changed chapter 8 so it says: Leo stores options in [EMAIL PROTECTED] trees, that is, parts of Leo outlines whose root node has the headline [EMAIL PROTECTED] When opening a .leo file, Leo looks for [EMAIL PROTECTED] trees in the following places: - The file ``leoSettings.leo`` in the leo/config directory. - The file ``leoSettings.leo`` in the user's home/.leo directory. - The file ``myLeoSettings.leo`` in the leo/config directory. - The file ``myLeoSettings.leo`` in the user's home/.leo directory. - The file being loaded. I think that is close enough to the truth. :-] I think closer to the truth would be better. You have not mentioned cwd/myLeoSettings.leo, which seems to be ignored UNLESS home/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo is NOT found. I think 'close enough' requires that at least the documentation match the behaviour, otherwise there's potential for wasting a lot of time trying to figure out what is going on. Thanks, Kent Edward --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Aug 16, 12:39 pm, Alia K [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 for the following unix-like structure for per user leo settings: $HOME/.leo leoID.txt myLeoSettings.leo etc.. rev 891 now uses this directory structure for all files that were formerly in the $HOME directory. Leo will create the .leo sub- directory as needed, but Leo will not copy files from $HOME to $HOME/.leo. The easiest way to convert to the new scheme is to create the $HOME/.leo yourself, and then move files from $HOME to $HOME/.leo. That should give you exactly the same behavior as before. Otherwise, Leo may prompt you for the leoID.txt file, and my use myLeoSettings.leo found in other places. This is likely to be the last substantial change before Leo 4.5 final. I expect to release Leo 4.5 b4 on Monday and possibly Leo 4.5 final on Friday. Please report any problems immediately. Edward --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Aug 16, 12:14 pm, Edward K. Ream [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Imo, Leo 4.5 b4 should attempt to handle settings in a more standard manner. The first config changes are at rev 883 of the trunk. Leo now handle's @enabled-plugins nodes in a more straightforward manner: it enables all plugins mentioned in the body text, and completely ignores comments. Thus, the presence of a plugin in a comment does not disable the plugin. Edward --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 7:15 PM, Randy Kramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True, brevity is a virtue, but this is too brief. If you have objections please state them clearly. Sorry! No problem. Just remember that I get many emails every day on many subjects. Please always quote a previous statement to set context. The approach you are headed towards is pretty much the current standard Linux approach, so how can I argue that it is not appropriate. I'm typically looking for the simplest thing that could possibly work. I am tilting at windmills advocating for what I think is a better approach, one which I think will come to pass sooner or later. To have any chance of convincing me, you would have to show why the different approach is a) better than Leo's already flexible configuration way and b) worth the trouble to implement. Edward --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Thursday 21 August 2008 07:32 am, Edward K. Ream wrote: To have any chance of convincing me, you would have to show why the different approach is a) better than Leo's already flexible configuration way and b) worth the trouble to implement. Edward, Thanks for offering that opportunity, but I simply don't have the resources to do that at this time. The direction you're headed is a fine one and appropriate, as it is, in line with the current approach used in Linux. I simply *wish* it was something different. Peace! regards, Randy Kramer -- I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I created a video instead.--with apologies to Cicero, et.al. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 1:09 PM, Edward K. Ream [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Kent Tenney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Especially now that Leo has shadow files, I think people will be unsurprised to see Leo config and private in company like: ls -a .leo .bzr .svn .vim .cvs Oh good :-) If Leo is using a .leo directory, maybe the filenames could be shortened, possibly even just settings.leo Convention seems to favor terse. Another convention seems to be offering a final customization option, -c on the command line. /path/to/leo/RunLeo.py -c /my/special/configdir/settings.leo myfile.leo I think the file named by -c would effectively act as CWD/.leo/settings.leo replacing it if it exists. The settings in myfile.leo would always have the last word. Edward --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Thursday 21 August 2008 08:20 am, Ville M. Vainio wrote: On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Edward K. Ream [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To have any chance of convincing me, you would have to show why the different approach is a) better than Leo's already flexible configuration way and b) worth the trouble to implement. And c) equally applicable/better for windows users. I haven't paid enough attention, but is the planned approach equally applicable to windows? I see (remember) so many differences in the directory structure and configuration approach (between Windows and Linux--the Windows registry for example), that it would be hard to believe. (On the other hand, there is usually a high enough perspective from which similarities in almost anything can be perceived.) But, my request was only that: * consider the new Linux standards that are being developed (the $XDG stuff) and implemented so far in only a few cases (and rather confusing at that, at least to me, because the implementations I've seen don't match my interpretation of the specifications, nor do they all match) * keep it (easily) configurable, so renegades like me can adjust it to suit (I guess it will be in any case, I mean, I guess I can use symlinks to get stuff out of my ~/ --I'm sure I've tried that at one time or another, and I know I ran into some problems, but those may have been partially due to my inexperience at the time (and I can't immediately remember what they are)) I don't intend to beat a dead horse, the planned direction seems appropriate, and I'm going to cap my pen. ;-) Randy Kramer -- I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I created a video instead.--with apologies to Cicero, et.al. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Randy Kramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a little off the current point, but if someone is going to reconsider where settings and data will reside, you may want to look into the XDG Base Directory Specification I think we have enough good ideas for now :-) Edward --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Aug 16, 12:14 pm, Edward K. Ream [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Imo, Leo 4.5 b4 should attempt to handle settings in a more standard manner. Many thanks to all who have offered suggestions and comments. The following post summarizes my present plans. 1. Everyone seems agree that the following structure for settings files is good: $HOME/.leo leoID.txt myLeoSettings.leo etc.. 2. (controversial?) There is a question of what to do about $HOME/ myLeoSettings.leo. I don't like either of the following suggestions: QQQ 1) Leo tries to be smart and looks for both ~/[my]leoSettings.leo and ~/.leo/[my]leoSettings.leo, uses which ever it finds and complains very loudly if it finds both. 2) Change the default behavior so it always looks in ~/.leo, but for some transitional period (a year or two?) check for them in ~ and complain loudly telling the user to move them - force the user to move them by ignoring them and just explaining the problem. I.e. I found you config file but I'm not using it because it's in the wrong place. QQQ 1) will just cause more confusion, and 2) just delays the day of transition to a time when we've all forgotten the issues involved :-) Imo, the thing to do is simply to make the transition *now*, and get the pain over with. Leo can, without confusion, warn that it is ignoring $HOME/.myLeoSettings.leo. 3. (controversial?) The present code creates myLeoSettings.leo if it doesn't exist. I don't like it, and it has already created installation problems. This should be an option, but it can't be an option because creating myLeoSettings.leo happens too early. So I'm going to take out this code. A create-my-leo-settings-leo command might be helpful... So much for configuration settings, per se. Let us now consider the question of directories for Leo's shadow files. 1. The suggestion was to change .leo_shadow to .leo/shadow. This may be possible now:: @string shadow_subdir = .leo/shadow I'll make sure Leo's code makes this possible. 2. Ville makes an important observation re Linux: as it is now, you require write access to the directory where the files are. Not optimal for all situations... You could call this a problem with the original @shadow idea. I don't know of a real solution to this problem. Imo, putting shadow file in a centralized location (the exact location is irrelevant) is a wretched idea: it will add complexity, obscurity and bugs not only to the code, but for users. I will never agree to such a scheme. So I think the only thing for people to do is to put .leo files that use @shadow in a writable directory :-) This is the down side of Linux's security scheme. Please comment now. I'll probably push revisions based on these remarks tomorrow. Edward --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 07:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Edward K. Ream [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) will just cause more confusion, and 2) just delays the day of transition to a time when we've all forgotten the issues involved :-) Imo, the thing to do is simply to make the transition *now*, and get the pain over with. Leo can, without confusion, warn that it is ignoring $HOME/.myLeoSettings.leo. Apart from the fact you meant $HOME/myLeoSettings.leo :) I (the source of (1) and (2)) agree - better to just insist on the correct location and yell at the user, than to allow either. 3. (controversial?) The present code creates myLeoSettings.leo if it doesn't exist. I don't like it, and it has already created installation problems. This should be an option, but it can't be an option because creating myLeoSettings.leo happens too early. Creating config files in a users home dir if not present is very common practice, I've never really seen it cause problems. It amuses me that I have config for apps I haven't used for 10-12 years, while Windows struggles to get your settings through a single upgrade without losing them :-) So I'm going to take out this code. A create-my-leo-settings-leo command might be helpful... I didn't see the installation problem, but I can't imagine why creating if not present doesn't work for leo when it works for so many other apps. However if you are going to stop doing that, then I think the menu command edit settings should create it (if needed), then edit it. So much for configuration settings, per se. What about the so called CWD/myLeoSettings.leo, I assume that moves to CWD/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo? Along with CWD/.leo/shadow I think that would be tidiest. Cheers -Terry --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Wednesday 20 August 2008 10:46 am, Edward K. Ream wrote: 1. Everyone seems agree that the following structure for settings ^Almost Just for the record ;-) Randy Kramer -- I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I created a video instead.--with apologies to Cicero, et.al. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Aug 20, 10:31 am, Randy Kramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Everyone seems agree that the following structure for settings ^Almost True, brevity is a virtue, but this is too brief. If you have objections please state them clearly. Edward --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 10:10 AM, Terry Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 07:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Edward K. Ream [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) will just cause more confusion, and 2) just delays the day of transition to a time when we've all forgotten the issues involved :-) Imo, the thing to do is simply to make the transition *now*, and get the pain over with. Leo can, without confusion, warn that it is ignoring $HOME/.myLeoSettings.leo. Apart from the fact you meant $HOME/myLeoSettings.leo :) I (the source of (1) and (2)) agree - better to just insist on the correct location and yell at the user, than to allow either. 3. (controversial?) The present code creates myLeoSettings.leo if it doesn't exist. I don't like it, and it has already created installation problems. This should be an option, but it can't be an option because creating myLeoSettings.leo happens too early. Creating config files in a users home dir if not present is very common practice, I've never really seen it cause problems. It amuses me that I have config for apps I haven't used for 10-12 years, while Windows struggles to get your settings through a single upgrade without losing them :-) So I'm going to take out this code. A create-my-leo-settings-leo command might be helpful... I didn't see the installation problem, but I can't imagine why creating if not present doesn't work for leo when it works for so many other apps. However if you are going to stop doing that, then I think the menu command edit settings should create it (if needed), then edit it. So much for configuration settings, per se. What about the so called CWD/myLeoSettings.leo, I assume that moves to CWD/.leo/myLeoSettings.leo? Along with CWD/.leo/shadow I think that would be tidiest. And, according to convention on *nix AFAICT Especially now that Leo has shadow files, I think people will be unsurprised to see Leo config and private in company like: ls -a .leo .bzr .svn .vim .cvs Cheers -Terry --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Kent Tenney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Especially now that Leo has shadow files, I think people will be unsurprised to see Leo config and private in company like: ls -a .leo .bzr .svn .vim .cvs Oh good :-) Edward --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Let straighten out the settings mess
On Wednesday 20 August 2008 12:16 pm, Edward K. Ream wrote: On Aug 20, 10:31 am, Randy Kramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Everyone seems agree that the following structure for settings ^Almost True, brevity is a virtue, but this is too brief. If you have objections please state them clearly. Sorry! I stated (or implied / tried to state) my concerns in an earlier post, those being: * consider the XDG Base Directory Specification (http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-0.6.html) * keep the locations configurable (so that real user data and configuration data can be separated sometime in the future) The approach you are headed towards is pretty much the current standard Linux approach, so how can I argue that it is not appropriate. I am tilting at windmills advocating for what I think is a better approach, one which I think will come to pass sooner or later. So, I had trouble allowing myself to be grouped with the Everyone that seems to agree, and I'm just stating that I don't--but not expecting any change based on my lack of agreement. Hmm, it seems like I could have said this more simply and clearer, and Im just making noise. Sorry about that. regards, Randy Kramer -- I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I created a video instead.--with apologies to Cicero, et.al. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups leo-editor group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
