Re: Linux "sleep" command not waking up under high CPU utilization

[R P Herrold]

On Wed, 18 Apr 2018, John Campbell wrote:

> "This should not happen"...  Never confuse theory with practice.

The tell-tale give-away is the use of the verb form:
should

as it indicates the speaker is working from expectation rather
than observation

-- Russ herrold

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Re: Linux "sleep" command not waking up under high CPU utilization

[John Campbell]

"This should not happen"...  Never confuse theory with practice.

In Software development, theory and practice appear identical.  (BT,DT)

In Systems Integration and Application Production Support you quickly learn
that theory and practice are seldom within the same galaxy much less the
same solar system.  (BT,DT)

I've done enough problem determination within BOTH environments...

(chuckles)

(Draws on memory)

Running an IBM labspace I had three AIX servers for supporting testing of
an application that required SNA support.  I also owned the delegated DNS
subdomain so it was up to me to recommend names.  One server handled
functional testing, the second was for system testing and the final one for
"user" testing.  I named them flog, flail and flaunt.  (The SNA gateway was
named "phlegm", BTW, instead of "snaat".)

In various places, beyond this, I have learned that "UAT" seems to stand
for "User Avoided Testing".

I've also worked w/ Tandem guys who throw around claims like 5 nines...
and had the systems _I_ supported insulted as 9 fives servers.

(shrugs)

So I have a LOT of practice learning how systems DO NOT WORK AS EXPECTED.

To paraphrase Patton's Law for this milieu...  "No Plan Survives Contact
With Reality".

-soup

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 3:01 PM, Christian Borntraeger <
borntrae...@de.ibm.com> wrote:

> On 04/18/2018 03:36 PM, Dave Jones wrote:
> > Hello, gang.
> >
> > I have a very simple bash script that runs a trivial data collection
> > task, and then does a Linux "sleep im" to wait a minute before running
> > the data collection task again. Under very high CPU loads (> 90%) I have
> > noticed that the "sleep" command does not seem to wake up after one
> > minute but instead wakes up 15 to 20 minutes later. This is on a Red Hat
> > 6.9 guest running under z/VM 6.4 on a z12 box.
> >
> > I would like to buy a clue here if I could.
>
> This should not happen, even under load. Is this really the sleep that
> does not
> wakeup or is maybe the following stuff not getting access to the data?
> Have you
> tried with "set -x" in the bash script to see what commands bash is
> executing?
>
> --
> For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or
> visit
> http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
> --
> For more information on Linux on System z, visit
> http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
>



--
John R. Campbell Speaker to Machines  souperb at gmail dot
com
MacOS X proved it was easier to make Unix user-friendly than to fix Windows
"It doesn't matter how well-crafted a system is to eliminate errors;
Regardless
 of any and all checks and balances in place, all systems will fail because,
 somewhere, there is meat in the loop." - me

--
For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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Re: Linux "sleep" command not waking up under high CPU utilization

[Dave Jones]

> If in a virtualized instance...
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__n5Bgxx-68

 [4]Very well played, Sir! remarkably funny and one of my favorites,
too.
DJ [4]

---

DAVID JONES | MANAGING DIRECTOR FOR ZSYSTEMS SERVICES | z/VM, Linux, and
Cloud
 703.237.7370 (Office) | 281.578.7544 (CELL)

INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY COMPANY [1]

On 04.18.2018 7:10 AM, John Campbell wrote:

> Buy a clue? That can be expensive depending upon how many vowels are
> necessary. :-)
>
> Look, the sleep call is awkward to begin with... and that's within a C
> program! (Since perl uses sleep() it can work more-or-less the same way.)
> A sleep(1) call will vary, for instance. Depending upon the system using a
> nap(ms) call has its own complications.
>
> A "sleep 1m" (or, the way I code the command, "sleep 60" since the default
> granularity is in seconds) includes a fork()+exec() call and then passing,
> on completion, notifying the parent process it can now proceed.
>
> In a very busy system, the fork()/exec() to LAUNCH the sleep command may be
> delayed. (Personally, when working within a system that is loaded down, I
> prefer to code a perl script, just to cut down on the fork()/exec() rate.)
> So, the need to execute fork() to get a child process launched-- which
> starts out as a copy of the existing shell-- can require resources that are
> in short supply EVEN WHEN the sleep command renders a teeny process,
> memory-wise, so, when the system is loaded down, forking can be impacted
> (RAM, CPU, etc) while the exec() call, itself, starts a process with a very
> minimal page set and lets page faults load the rest of it. (And, just as a
> reminder, the fork() call means the impure "data" and "stack" segments have
> to be allocated and copied.)
>
> So the system is loaded down.
>
> If this is a virtual instance, however, you may want to investigate whether
> the instance is being impacted by OTHER instances where resources are
> over-committed. Other instances can't be seen, howsomever, so finding out
> if some other instance is stealing your cycles (or putting your instance
> into paging space) can be harder to detect. The usual performance
> monitoring tools don't work "well" when CPU and RAM are overcommitted.
>
> YMMV.
>
> If you are resident in an LPAR you can use internal performance tools: Look
> at the top command's output. Run vmstat or even sar. Consider what your
> system is doing.
>
> If in a virtualized instance...
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__n5Bgxx-68 [4]
>
> Finally, while a process is sleeping, it can be pushed out of RAM and then
> waking up means you'll have a whole buncha page faults as it tries to get
> running again. A virtual instance can have DOUBLE page faults both within
> the instance which cause a page fault the hypervisor has to address.
>
> If you are running an "important" set of processes within a virtual
> instance (shakes head).
>
> -soup
>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 9:36 AM, Dave Jones  wrote:
>
>> Hello, gang. I have a very simple bash script that runs a trivial data 
>> collection task, and then does a Linux "sleep im" to wait a minute before 
>> running the data collection task again. Under very high CPU loads (> 90%) I 
>> have noticed that the "sleep" command does not seem to wake up after one 
>> minute but instead wakes up 15 to 20 minutes later. This is on a Red Hat 6.9 
>> guest running under z/VM 6.4 on a z12 box. I would like to buy a clue here 
>> if I could. Thanks. DJ -- DAVID JONES | MANAGING DIRECTOR FOR ZSYSTEMS 
>> SERVICES | z/VM, Linux, and Cloud 703.237.7370 (Office) | 281.578.7544 
>> (CELL) INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY COMPANY [1 [1]] Links: -- [1] 
>> http://www.itconline.com/ [1] 
>> -- For 
>> LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
>> lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit 
>> http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 [2]
-- For more 
information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ [3]
>
> --
> John R. Campbell Speaker to Machines souperb at gmail dot
> com
> MacOS X proved it was easier to make Unix user-friendly than to fix Windows
> "It doesn't matter how well-crafted a system is to eliminate errors;
> Regardless
> of any and all checks and balances in place, all systems will fail because,
> somewhere, there is meat in the loop." - me
>
> --
> For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
> http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 [2]
> --
> For more information on Linux on System z, visit
> http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ [3]


Links:
--
[1] http://www.itconline.com/
[2] 

Re: Linux "sleep" command not waking up under high CPU utilization

[Christian Borntraeger]

On 04/18/2018 03:36 PM, Dave Jones wrote:
> Hello, gang.
>
> I have a very simple bash script that runs a trivial data collection
> task, and then does a Linux "sleep im" to wait a minute before running
> the data collection task again. Under very high CPU loads (> 90%) I have
> noticed that the "sleep" command does not seem to wake up after one
> minute but instead wakes up 15 to 20 minutes later. This is on a Red Hat
> 6.9 guest running under z/VM 6.4 on a z12 box.
>
> I would like to buy a clue here if I could.

This should not happen, even under load. Is this really the sleep that does not
wakeup or is maybe the following stuff not getting access to the data? Have you
tried with "set -x" in the bash script to see what commands bash is executing?

--
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Re: Bash not lest you be bashed...

[John Campbell]

Oh, yeah, you want to make sure you don't "wrap" a cron job, so one of the
first steps once the environment has been established is to make sure you
don't run unless the previous launch has completed.  I've also seen
overruns where no one made sure the jobs would not conflict;  These can get
pretty ugly, especially if, say, you're make SQL selects.

Oh, and just to make y'all laugh, I usually pronounce SQL as "SQueaL"...
So, when the banjo music starts, can say "SQueaL like a D B A, boy!"   :-)
:-)

Yes, I _do_ get that desperate for a laugh.

-soup

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 12:27 PM, John Campbell  wrote:

> Easy cheat:
>
> Use the "env" (or printenv) command to capture your "live" shell
> environment to a file.
>
> Edit out chunks you don't think you need for a "batch" process.
>
> Sprinkle in appropriate exports.
>
> Insert this in the front of your cron job's script.
>
> Note:  I have seen cases where cron jobs weren't (ahem) "punctual";
> Writing for a cron, however, means a different mindset from writing a
> daemon process.
>
> -soup
>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 12:16 PM, Paul Flint  wrote:
>
>> Dear David,
>>
>> If you are periodically waking to take data, then you really need to be
>> using "crontab" as it is essentially built for this type of behavior.
>>
>> The gotcha with crontab is that you need to establish environment
>> variables as part of your program's execution.  If you would like I shall
>> endeavor to remember the angle on this.
>>
>> Once it is running you can say pretty much any interval you would like.
>>
>> Once you beat the environment variable issue, crontab can be very "nice"
>> (no pun intended :^)
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Flint
>>
>> On Wed, 18 Apr 2018, Dave Jones wrote:
>>
>> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 06:36:36 -0700
>>> From: Dave Jones 
>>> Reply-To: Linux on 390 Port 
>>> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
>>> Subject: Linux "sleep" command not waking up under high CPU utilization
>>>
>>> Hello, gang.
>>>
>>> I have a very simple bash script that runs a trivial data collection
>>> task, and then does a Linux "sleep im" to wait a minute before running
>>> the data collection task again. Under very high CPU loads (> 90%) I have
>>> noticed that the "sleep" command does not seem to wake up after one
>>> minute but instead wakes up 15 to 20 minutes later. This is on a Red Hat
>>> 6.9 guest running under z/VM 6.4 on a z12 box.
>>>
>>> I would like to buy a clue here if I could.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> DJ
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> DAVID JONES | MANAGING DIRECTOR FOR ZSYSTEMS SERVICES | z/VM, Linux, and
>>> Cloud
>>> 703.237.7370 (Office) | 281.578.7544 (CELL)
>>>
>>> INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY COMPANY [1]
>>>
>>>
>>> Links:
>>> --
>>> [1] http://www.itconline.com/
>>>
>>> --
>>> For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390
>>> or visit
>>> http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
>>> --
>>> For more information on Linux on System z, visit
>>> http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
>>>
>>>
>> Kindest Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> ☮ Paul Flint
>> (802) 479-2360 Home
>> (802) 595-9365 Cell
>>
>> /
>> Based upon email reliability concerns,
>> please send an acknowledgement in response to
>> 
>> this note.
>>
>> Paul Flint
>> 17 Averill Street
>> Barre, VT
>> 05641
>>
>> --
>> For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or
>> visit
>> http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
>> --
>> For more information on Linux on System z, visit
>> http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> John R. Campbell Speaker to Machines  souperb at gmail dot
> com
> MacOS X proved it was easier to make Unix user-friendly than to fix Windows
> "It doesn't matter how well-crafted a system is to eliminate errors;
> Regardless
>  of any and all checks and balances in place, all systems will fail
> because,
>  somewhere, there is meat in the loop." - me
>



-- 
John R. Campbell Speaker to Machines  souperb at gmail dot
com
MacOS X proved it was easier to make Unix user-friendly than to fix Windows
"It doesn't matter how well-crafted a system is to eliminate errors;
Regardless
 of any and all checks and balances in place, all systems will fail because,
 somewhere, there is meat in the loop." - me

--
For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the 

Re: Bash not lest you be bashed...

[John Campbell]

Easy cheat:

Use the "env" (or printenv) command to capture your "live" shell
environment to a file.

Edit out chunks you don't think you need for a "batch" process.

Sprinkle in appropriate exports.

Insert this in the front of your cron job's script.

Note:  I have seen cases where cron jobs weren't (ahem) "punctual";
Writing for a cron, however, means a different mindset from writing a
daemon process.

-soup

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 12:16 PM, Paul Flint  wrote:

> Dear David,
>
> If you are periodically waking to take data, then you really need to be
> using "crontab" as it is essentially built for this type of behavior.
>
> The gotcha with crontab is that you need to establish environment
> variables as part of your program's execution.  If you would like I shall
> endeavor to remember the angle on this.
>
> Once it is running you can say pretty much any interval you would like.
>
> Once you beat the environment variable issue, crontab can be very "nice"
> (no pun intended :^)
>
> Regards,
>
> Flint
>
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2018, Dave Jones wrote:
>
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 06:36:36 -0700
>> From: Dave Jones 
>> Reply-To: Linux on 390 Port 
>> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
>> Subject: Linux "sleep" command not waking up under high CPU utilization
>>
>> Hello, gang.
>>
>> I have a very simple bash script that runs a trivial data collection
>> task, and then does a Linux "sleep im" to wait a minute before running
>> the data collection task again. Under very high CPU loads (> 90%) I have
>> noticed that the "sleep" command does not seem to wake up after one
>> minute but instead wakes up 15 to 20 minutes later. This is on a Red Hat
>> 6.9 guest running under z/VM 6.4 on a z12 box.
>>
>> I would like to buy a clue here if I could.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> DJ
>>
>> --
>>
>> DAVID JONES | MANAGING DIRECTOR FOR ZSYSTEMS SERVICES | z/VM, Linux, and
>> Cloud
>> 703.237.7370 (Office) | 281.578.7544 (CELL)
>>
>> INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY COMPANY [1]
>>
>>
>> Links:
>> --
>> [1] http://www.itconline.com/
>>
>> --
>> For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or
>> visit
>> http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
>> --
>> For more information on Linux on System z, visit
>> http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
>>
>>
> Kindest Regards,
>
>
>
> ☮ Paul Flint
> (802) 479-2360 Home
> (802) 595-9365 Cell
>
> /
> Based upon email reliability concerns,
> please send an acknowledgement in response to
> 
> this note.
>
> Paul Flint
> 17 Averill Street
> Barre, VT
> 05641
>
> --
> For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or
> visit
> http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
> --
> For more information on Linux on System z, visit
> http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
>



-- 
John R. Campbell Speaker to Machines  souperb at gmail dot
com
MacOS X proved it was easier to make Unix user-friendly than to fix Windows
"It doesn't matter how well-crafted a system is to eliminate errors;
Regardless
 of any and all checks and balances in place, all systems will fail because,
 somewhere, there is meat in the loop." - me

--
For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
--
For more information on Linux on System z, visit
http://wiki.linuxvm.org/

Bash not lest you be bashed...

[Paul Flint]

Dear David,

If you are periodically waking to take data, then you really need to be 
using "crontab" as it is essentially built for this type of behavior.


The gotcha with crontab is that you need to establish environment 
variables as part of your program's execution.  If you would like I shall 
endeavor to remember the angle on this.


Once it is running you can say pretty much any interval you would like.

Once you beat the environment variable issue, crontab can be very "nice" 
(no pun intended :^)


Regards,

Flint

On Wed, 18 Apr 2018, Dave Jones wrote:


Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 06:36:36 -0700
From: Dave Jones 
Reply-To: Linux on 390 Port 
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Linux "sleep" command not waking up under high CPU utilization

Hello, gang.

I have a very simple bash script that runs a trivial data collection
task, and then does a Linux "sleep im" to wait a minute before running
the data collection task again. Under very high CPU loads (> 90%) I have
noticed that the "sleep" command does not seem to wake up after one
minute but instead wakes up 15 to 20 minutes later. This is on a Red Hat
6.9 guest running under z/VM 6.4 on a z12 box.

I would like to buy a clue here if I could.

Thanks.

DJ

--

DAVID JONES | MANAGING DIRECTOR FOR ZSYSTEMS SERVICES | z/VM, Linux, and
Cloud
703.237.7370 (Office) | 281.578.7544 (CELL)

INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY COMPANY [1]


Links:
--
[1] http://www.itconline.com/

--
For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
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Kindest Regards,



☮ Paul Flint
(802) 479-2360 Home
(802) 595-9365 Cell

/
Based upon email reliability concerns,
please send an acknowledgement in response to this note.

Paul Flint
17 Averill Street
Barre, VT
05641

--
For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
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Re: Linux "sleep" command not waking up under high CPU utilization

[John Campbell]

Buy a clue?  That can be expensive depending upon how many vowels are
necessary.  :-)

Look, the sleep call is awkward to begin with...  and that's within a C
program!  (Since perl uses sleep() it can work more-or-less the same way.)
A sleep(1) call will vary, for instance.  Depending upon the system using a
nap(ms) call has its own complications.

A "sleep 1m" (or, the way I code the command, "sleep 60" since the default
granularity is in seconds) includes a fork()+exec() call and then passing,
on completion, notifying the parent process it can now proceed.

In a very busy system, the fork()/exec() to LAUNCH the sleep command may be
delayed. (Personally, when working within a system that is loaded down, I
prefer to code a perl script, just to cut down on the fork()/exec() rate.)
So, the need to execute fork() to get a child process launched-- which
starts out as a copy of the existing shell-- can require resources that are
in short supply EVEN WHEN the sleep command renders a teeny process,
memory-wise, so, when the system is loaded down, forking can be impacted
(RAM, CPU, etc) while the exec() call, itself, starts a process with a very
minimal page set and lets page faults load the rest of it.  (And, just as a
reminder, the fork() call means the impure "data" and "stack" segments have
to be allocated and copied.)

So the system is loaded down.

If this is a virtual instance, however, you may want to investigate whether
the instance is being impacted by OTHER instances where resources are
over-committed.  Other instances can't be seen, howsomever, so finding out
if some other instance is stealing your cycles (or putting your instance
into paging space) can be harder to detect.  The usual performance
monitoring tools don't work "well" when CPU and RAM are overcommitted.

YMMV.

If you are resident in an LPAR you can use internal performance tools: Look
at the top command's output.  Run vmstat or even sar.  Consider what your
system is doing.

If in a virtualized instance...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__n5Bgxx-68

Finally, while a process is sleeping, it can be pushed out of RAM and then
waking up means you'll have a whole buncha page faults as it tries to get
running again.  A virtual instance can have DOUBLE page faults both within
the instance which cause a page fault the hypervisor has to  address.

If you are running an "important" set of processes within a virtual
instance (shakes head).

-soup

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 9:36 AM, Dave Jones  wrote:

> Hello, gang.
>
> I have a very simple bash script that runs a trivial data collection
> task, and then does a Linux "sleep im" to wait a minute before running
> the data collection task again. Under very high CPU loads (> 90%) I have
> noticed that the "sleep" command does not seem to wake up after one
> minute but instead wakes up 15 to 20 minutes later. This is on a Red Hat
> 6.9 guest running under z/VM 6.4 on a z12 box.
>
> I would like to buy a clue here if I could.
>
> Thanks.
>
> DJ
>
> --
>
> DAVID JONES | MANAGING DIRECTOR FOR ZSYSTEMS SERVICES | z/VM, Linux, and
> Cloud
>  703.237.7370 (Office) | 281.578.7544 (CELL)
>
> INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY COMPANY [1]
>
>
> Links:
> --
> [1] http://www.itconline.com/
>
> --
> For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or
> visit
> http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
> --
> For more information on Linux on System z, visit
> http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
>



--
John R. Campbell Speaker to Machines  souperb at gmail dot
com
MacOS X proved it was easier to make Unix user-friendly than to fix Windows
"It doesn't matter how well-crafted a system is to eliminate errors;
Regardless
 of any and all checks and balances in place, all systems will fail because,
 somewhere, there is meat in the loop." - me

--
For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
--
For more information on Linux on System z, visit
http://wiki.linuxvm.org/

Linux "sleep" command not waking up under high CPU utilization

[Dave Jones]

Hello, gang.

I have a very simple bash script that runs a trivial data collection
task, and then does a Linux "sleep im" to wait a minute before running
the data collection task again. Under very high CPU loads (> 90%) I have
noticed that the "sleep" command does not seem to wake up after one
minute but instead wakes up 15 to 20 minutes later. This is on a Red Hat
6.9 guest running under z/VM 6.4 on a z12 box.

I would like to buy a clue here if I could.

Thanks.

DJ

--

DAVID JONES | MANAGING DIRECTOR FOR ZSYSTEMS SERVICES | z/VM, Linux, and
Cloud
 703.237.7370 (Office) | 281.578.7544 (CELL)

INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY COMPANY [1]


Links:
--
[1] http://www.itconline.com/

--
For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
--
For more information on Linux on System z, visit
http://wiki.linuxvm.org/