Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?
Debian, as an organization, has a public image that reflects the sentiments of the people who make up that organization. Those people have begun slandering the Jewish state. Debian is not conscious and can not support or oppose anything. The people who compose of the organization are conscious, and have declared their stance. On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 at 15:20, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: > Hi, > > On Sat, Mar 02, 2024 at 09:21:37PM +0200, borissh1...@gmail.com wrote: > > Hi, > > > > A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of using > > or supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader shared a call > > for BDS ? > > Debian does not support (or oppose, or whatever) BDS. > > Some Debian people may support (or oppose or whatever). > > -- > mail / xmpp / matrix: tzaf...@cohens.org.il > ___ > Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il > To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il > ___ Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
Re: Visidata with RTL text
LRE and PDF are generally only useful at the beginning of text lines. RLM and LRM are useful in all places in a text line. I use them often, I've even added them to my keyboard: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/674997/new-keyboard-layout-variant-not-detected-after-reboot On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 at 11:41, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: > > Hi, > > On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 09:53:36AM +0300, Shachar Shemesh wrote: > > > > On 09/06/2022 19:10, Dotan Cohen wrote: > > > If anybody doesn't yet use Visidata, then give it a look. It is > > > ostensibly a tool for looking at tabular data, like CSV files, but it > > > works with so many formats that I find myself using it very often as > > > it is easier to use than purpose-built tools. I even use it to poke > > > around the filesystem sometimes. > > > > > > https://www.visidata.org/ > > > > > > Visidata unfortunately places consecutive RTL cells in reverse order. > > > Here's the bug that I filed: > > > https://github.com/saulpw/visidata/issues/1392 > > > > > > It would be great if someone could add something constructive to that > > > bug report. I personally have many CSV files and other files with > > > Hebrew and Arabic text. Thanks. > > > > > > If you can find the part of the code that outpus, simply inserting > > an "LRM" character between cells should, at the very least, greatly > > improve things. > > Isn't that what LRE and PDF are for? > > -- > mail / xmpp / matrix: tzaf...@cohens.org.il > > ___ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Visidata with RTL text
If anybody doesn't yet use Visidata, then give it a look. It is ostensibly a tool for looking at tabular data, like CSV files, but it works with so many formats that I find myself using it very often as it is easier to use than purpose-built tools. I even use it to poke around the filesystem sometimes. https://www.visidata.org/ Visidata unfortunately places consecutive RTL cells in reverse order. Here's the bug that I filed: https://github.com/saulpw/visidata/issues/1392 It would be great if someone could add something constructive to that bug report. I personally have many CSV files and other files with Hebrew and Arabic text. Thanks. Dotan Cohen ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: A mailto link with RTL body
As Boris mentioned, you need to add the \u200f character to the beginning of each line. This page will explain how to add that keycode to your keyboard, I've already done it to a few Debian machines: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/674997/new-keyboard-layout-variant-not-detected-after-reboot On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 10:46 AM Dimid Duchovny wrote: > > Hi, > > Is it possible to add some unicode characters so that the body of the email > will be displayed right-to-left? > I've tried the answer here with both Thunderbird and Gmail, and it didn't > work. > https://stackoverflow.com/a/7556801 > ___ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: What's so secure about sudo?
One reason that I like sudo is that root can be disabled for all intents and purposes. Most random SSH logins were once to the root account. We hardly ever see that anymore, thanks in no small part to the deprecation of root in many widespread Linux distros. On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 9:24 AM Shlomo Solomon wrote: > > This has bothered me for years and I decided to "get it off my chest". > > For many years I used su to do administrative tasks, but "everyone" > uses sudo and the claim is that it's more secure than actually logging > in as root. > > In principal, of course, root login is not a good thing, but let's > remember something I've never seen discussed. I would assume that on > most systems the root password is MUCH more secure than that of a > regular user. Now if I give user david sudo privileges, anyone who > cracks david's (weak) password now has access to root privileges. > > And before anyone says that this is only a one-time authorization, what > if the guy who cracked david's password now does: >sudo passwd root > > So what's so secure about using sudo? > > -- > Shlomo Solomon > http://the-solomons.net > Claws Mail 3.16.0 - Kubuntu 18.04 > > ___ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Hebrew in markup
http://dotancohen.com/howto/rtl_right_to_left.html The LRM and RLM characters do not have to be invisible. I agree that when I'm editing markup I prefer to see all the control characters. If your markup interpreter supports HTML entities, then LRM is lrm; and you can guess what the RLM is. Even more useful is the Right-To-Left Embedding character which is HTML entity #8235; There is a table of useful RTL-related HTML entities at the bottom of this page: http://dotancohen.com/howto/rtl_right_to_left.html On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 11:49 AM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Sat, Mar 07, 2015, Tzafrir Cohen wrote about Hebrew in markup: But I could not figure a simple way with any of those to get decent control of bidi. Or specifically: * Make the whole document RTL * Make various paragraphs LTR I guess I need to override some styles. With asciidoc I could not find a simple way to do that and ended up having to create my own separate bidi style. I didn't yet check all the various reSt and markdown implementations. Any better alternatives? I see the discussion in this thread focused on how to edit such a document, but I think there's a deeper issue here - not how to edit this document, but how the different markdown displayers and converters (the most popular is, of course, githaps) will *display* the resulting document. 15 years ago, I approached the same problem in pure-text documents (such as emails) by inventing my own conventions (embodied in the bidiv program) which automatically determines each paragraph's direction in a natural (I think) way: I decided on a convention that paragraphs are separated by a blank line, and a paragraph's direction is the direction of its first directioned character. It would be wonderful if popular markdown converters would be added a similar automatic direction convention, so Hebrew paragraphs would just work (and be right-aligned) without any concious changes to the text needed. Seems very easy to add this support to any particular markdown converter (I'd start with github's...). Alternatively, (or additionally,) special markdown conventions could be added to control directionality. Unicode also has the LRM, RLM characters, but I *don't* recommend those - I hate invisible characters in my documents. -- Nadav Har'El| Wednesday, Apr 1 2015, 12 Nisan 5775 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Linux: Because rebooting is for adding http://nadav.harel.org.il |new hardware. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: terminal emulator
I can confirm that Konsole works out of the box in Kubuntu 14.04: $ touch שלום.txt $ ls שלום.txt $ vim שלום.txt $ cat שלום.txt שלום, עולם Note that VIM did have some trouble with the RTL, however. On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 6:23 PM, Yedidyah Bar David linux...@didi.bardavid.org wrote: 2014-08-28 18:06 GMT+03:00 Efraim Flashner efraim.flash...@gmail.com: tilda shows up left-to-right with hebrew letters, mlterm shows up right-to-left with boxes. All on debian sid. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7048321/tilda.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7048321/mlterm.jpg I now verified that konsole also shows hebrew right-to-left. You should probably configure mlterm (ctrl-rightclick) to use some other font. I personally use both xterm and mlterm with a very old raster (pcf) font I found somewhere a very long time ago, don't remember anymore where, and tweaked a bit since. I don't mind sharing it, but any modern vector font will probably look better. -- Didi ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: self mail hosting
On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 8:40 PM, shimi linux...@shimi.net wrote: And then, there's The Cloud (TM). http://aws.amazon.com/ses/ This is what I use. I think I pay something like $1 monthly. I'm very happy with AWS in general. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux friendly NAS or networked drive/raid - perhaps wireless
Are the drives spinning all the time? If the drives are not accessed for some time (say, one hour) then I would expect the device to spin them down. On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 2:20 PM, E.S. Rosenberg esr+linux...@g.jct.ac.il wrote: There are plenty of cheap low-power mainboards available... Intel Atom boards AMD E-series ARM stuff (pandaboard, beagleboard, and many more) So you can build your own low-power solution that will use in the area of 33W (though if you have lot's of disks I really don't see how you would get that low a peak usage with more then 2 disks since the avg. usage of a disk is about 10W, though that may have improved by now...) And yes, RAID 6, 1, 10 or RAIDZ should be what you look at Regards, Eliyahu - אליהו 2013/10/7 vordoo vor...@yahoo.com: DO NOT USE RAID 5, Go for 1, 6, or 10 : http://www.zdnet.com/blog/storage/why-raid-5-stops-working-in-2009/162 use flickr which offers free storage up to 1TB (you can mark all your files private if you want)... Marked or not, if you flickr privet it will not be anymore. Which may be OK as long as you know. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Open position: Full time job in Beersheba.
If anybody here is in the Beersheba area, I would love to talk to you in person! We have a full time position open for a developer skilled in any of these technologies: Python PHP Apache Solr Amazon Web Services (EC2, EBS, RDS) -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Watch out for Bezeq
On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 3:04 PM, Mord Behar mord...@gmail.com wrote: Just a general heads up: I recently registered on the Bezeq site in order to be able to view my receipts and stuff. When I signed up I provided a username and a password. Which they then sent me to my email address in plaintext. So just a reminder: don't reuse passwords, and use a throw-away password for bezeq. Have a Shanna Tova! I have so much to add under the idea Watch out for Bezeq. Too bad that they only happen to be the least-worst infrastructure in Israel. Go sign up for Lastpass, my entire office is now using it. I lets you set up individual passwords for every site, and they are encrypted locally. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Postfix: Accept some mail to mailbox, and forward some mail.
Thank you Shachar!
Did you use Dovecot to access the mail? I am having some trouble with
the Dovecot passwords. I am finding this in the logs when I
unsuccessfully try to log in:
Jul 07 08:13:25 auth-worker: Debug:
pam(u...@somedomain.com,212.179.241.14): lookup service=dovecot
Jul 07 08:13:25 auth-worker: Debug:
pam(u...@somedomain.com,212.179.241.14): #1/1 style=1 msg=Password:
Jul 07 08:13:27 auth-worker: Info:
pam(u...@somedomain.com,212.179.241.14): pam_authenticate() failed:
Authentication failure (password mismatch?) (given password: 12345)
Jul 07 08:13:29 auth: Debug: client out: FAIL 2 user=u...@somedomain.com
Jul 07 08:13:29 pop3-login: Info: Disconnected (auth failed, 2
attempts): user=u...@somedomain.com, method=PLAIN,
rip=212.179.241.14, lip=10.138.11.251
This is not the real password, but an example to show that I think
that there is an issue:
$ /usr/bin/doveadm pw -u u...@somedomain.com -s DIGEST-MD5
Enter new password: # Here I have typed 12345
Retype new password: # Here I have typed 12345
{DIGEST-MD5}f4e442b0dec5009eaa8b9b4104923edc
$ printf 12345 | md5sum
827ccb0eea8a706c4c34a16891f84e7b -
$
Shouldn't that password match the md5sum check? Also, might I have the
file formats wrong?
$ cat passwd
u...@somedomain.com::5000:5000::/var/mail/vhosts/someDomain.com/user
$ cat shadow
u...@somedomain.com:{DIGEST-MD5}f4e442b0dec5009eaa8b9b4104923edc
$
Thanks!
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Re: Postfix: Accept some mail to mailbox, and forward some mail.
Note that testing in Telnet fails the password as well, both when specifying the user without a domain and with a domain: $ telnet mail.someDomain.com 143 Trying x.x.x.x... Connected to mail.someDomain.com. Escape character is '^]'. * OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 LITERAL+ SASL-IR LOGIN-REFERRALS ID ENABLE IDLE AUTH=PLAIN] Dovecot ready. a login user 12345 a NO [AUTHENTICATIONFAILED] Authentication failed. e logout * BYE Logging out e OK Logout completed. Connection closed by foreign host. $ telnet mail.someDomain.com 143 Trying x.x.x.x... Connected to mail.someDomain.com. Escape character is '^]'. * OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 LITERAL+ SASL-IR LOGIN-REFERRALS ID ENABLE IDLE AUTH=PLAIN] Dovecot ready. a login u...@somedomain.com 12345 a NO [AUTHENTICATIONFAILED] Authentication failed. * BAD Error in IMAP command received by server. e logout * BYE Logging out e OK Logout completed. Connection closed by foreign host. $ -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Postfix: Accept some mail to mailbox, and forward some mail.
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 5:37 AM, Shachar Shemesh shac...@shemesh.biz wrote: I do use dovecot, but mine is an LDAP setup, so I suspect that that part of the configuration is completely different between our systems. Right, I just looked again at your main.cf. I thought that you meant that you use LDAP for the user database. I'll go pour a coffee retroactively for yesterday. Thanks! Have a great week! -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Postfix: Accept some mail to mailbox, and forward some mail.
Hi all. I need to set up a virtual alias (forwarder) and a virtual
mailbox on the same domain. I'm using Postfix on Ubuntu Server 12.04.
Here is my setup:
$ cat /etc/postfix/main.cf
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Ubuntu)
biff = no
append_dot_mydomain = no
readme_directory = no
# TLS parameters
smtpd_tls_cert_file=/etc/ssl/certs/ssl-cert-snakeoil.pem
smtpd_tls_key_file=/etc/ssl/private/ssl-cert-snakeoil.key
smtpd_use_tls=yes
smtpd_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtpd_scache
smtp_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtp_scache
myhostname = awsBeta
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
mydestination = awsBeta, localhost.localdomain, , localhost
relayhost =
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 [:::127.0.0.0]/104 [::1]/128
mailbox_size_limit = 0
recipient_delimiter = +
inet_interfaces = all
virtual_mailbox_domains = someDomain.com
virtual_mailbox_base = /var/mail/vhosts
virtual_mailbox_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/vmailbox
virtual_minimum_uid = 100
virtual_uid_maps = static:5000
virtual_gid_maps = static:5000
virtual_alias_domains = someDomain.com
$ cat /etc/postfix/virtual
forw...@somedomain.com t...@gmail.com
$ cat /etc/postfix/vmailbox
do...@somedomain.com someDomain.com/dotan
$ sudo postmap virtual
$ sudo postmap vmailbox
$ tree /var/mail/vhosts/
/var/mail/vhosts/
└── someDomain.com
└── dotan
When mail is sent to forw...@somedomain.com it is properly forwarded
to t...@gmail.com. However, when mail is sent to do...@somedomain.com
the sending address receives a mail with this error:
Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table
This appears in the log:
warning: do not list domain someDomain.com in BOTH
virtual_alias_domains and virtual_mailbox_domains
Of course, I cannot remove the domain from either
virtual_alias_domains or virtual_mailbox_domains because I need to use
bothe of those features. So how might one set up do...@somedomain.com
as a real mailbox (no unix account though), but forw...@somedomain.com
to forward to t...@gmail.com? I've been trolling Google for answers,
but though I thought that this would be easy, I'm stuck!
--
Dotan Cohen
http://gibberish.co.il
http://what-is-what.com
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Postfix unable to find /etc/postfix/virtual file
On an Ubuntu Server 12.04 machine, I've set up an email forwarder for a specific address in /etc/postfix/virtual: exam...@mydomain.com postfix-t...@dotancohen.com The address postfix-t...@dotancohen.com works and receives mail. When I send mail to exam...@mydomain.com I get this in the logs: warning: hash:/etc/postfix/virtual is unavailable. open database /etc/postfix/virtual.db: No such file or directory warning: hash:/etc/postfix/virtual lookup error for exam...@mydomain.com warning: 705B58190E: virtual_alias_maps map lookup problem for exam...@mydomain.com -- deferring delivery Why might postfix be unable to find the /etc/postfix/virtual file? $ ls -la total 96 drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Jul 4 08:46 . drwxr-xr-x 102 root root 4096 Jun 24 06:23 .. -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 274 Jun 24 06:23 dynamicmaps.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1549 Jul 4 08:46 main.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5531 Jun 24 06:23 master.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 19707 Feb 20 20:03 postfix-files -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 8729 Feb 20 20:03 postfix-script -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 26498 Feb 20 20:03 post-install drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Feb 20 20:03 sasl -rw-r--r-- 1 root root43 Jul 4 08:27 virtual -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 130 Jul 4 08:26 vmailbox $ cat virtual exam...@mydomain.com post-t...@dotancohen.com $ cat main.cf | grep virtual virtual_mailbox_domains = mydomain.com virtual_mailbox_base = /var/mail/vhosts virtual_mailbox_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/vmailbox virtual_minimum_uid = 100 virtual_uid_maps = static:5000 virtual_gid_maps = static:5000 virtual_alias_domains = fastupfront.com virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual # virtual_alias_maps = /etc/postfix/virtual # I tried without the 'hash:' prefix as well. Note that mydomain.com is anonymized. In fact, the domain name that is used in the files is a real domain name that does have its A and MX records pointed to the IP address of this server, and serving webpages with Apache works. The DNS records were changed last week, so I know that they have propagated. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Postfix unable to find /etc/postfix/virtual file
On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 2:16 PM, Amos Shapira amos.shap...@gmail.com wrote: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%2Fetc%2Fpostfix%2Fvirtual.db%3A+No+such+file+or+directoryl=1 You need to execute postmap /etc/postfix/virtual after editing the file. Thank you Amos! -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Choosing a new bank
On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 7:49 PM, Dov Grobgeld dov.grobg...@gmail.com wrote: After getting the reply we only support Windows and Mac one time too many from Bank Leumi, when reporting about problems with their internet site, I have decided to finally switch banks. (They have annoyed me in other ways as well). Do you have any experience with the other banks? Which is the most Linux (or rather standards) friendly bank in Israel? I switched from Discount to Poalim exactly for the same reason. I am so happy with Poalim branch 702 in Haifa that when I moved to Beersheba I kept my branch in Haifa. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Raspberry PI questions
On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know of a company selling them here? I'm looking for them with a reasonable price, e.g. board, cheap shipping and VAT, as opposed to board and expensive shipping from out of the country. Second question, which I can't quite find an answer, does the model B have 2 separate USB ports, or one USB port spilt with an on board hub? Thanks in advance, Geoff. Hi Geoff! I just got a Raspberry Pi B as a gift. If you want to play around, I can set up an account on it and give you shell access. It is running on my home network. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Cloud Backup
Nadav, Amazon has a special service made just for this: http://aws.amazon.com/glacier/pricing/ The trick with Glacier is that the data is stored _offline_. That means two things: 1) It is actually more failure-redundant than EBS, S3, or rsync.net 2) You get your data about an hour _after_ you request it. Data transfer in is free and data transfer out has a free tier per month. Data storage is the absolute cheapest on the internet. Again I stress, this is the _most_failure_redundant_ service that exists. It is specifically designed for long-term backup and archiving. Furthermore, I am very happy with Amazon's cloud offerings. I have had very good experience with their support teams. On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 6:15 PM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: Hi, I'm looking for a cloud backup solution for Linux, where I'll be able to use rsync, sftp (and similar utilities) to a remote server to back up by files, and when needed, look at individual files (e.g., using sshfs) or restore all my files. I am *not* looking for a solution based on special purpose (and usually, closed source) utilities or daemons that attempt to decide for me what to back up and when - I want to be of full control of this process. For the last 3 years, I've been using the services of rsync.net, and they're doing exactly what I want. However, the storage price I pay them is 40 cents per gigabyte per month, is 4 times that of Amazon's, so I think there must be a cheaper solution. One thing I've been thinking - wouldn't it be fairly easy to store my files on Amazon's S3 or even more simply EBS, and then run rsync server on a micro instance on EC2? Sounds like a cheap, convenient backup solution for Linux diehards like myself, and I wonder if anyone has done this before and then I won't need to code this myself? Thanks, Nadav. -- Nadav Har'El| Saturday, Feb 23 2013, 13 Adar 5773 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Creativity consists of coming up with http://nadav.harel.org.il |many ideas, not just that one great idea. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: How many times can an internet connection interruption occur and still be considered acceptable?
The Bezeq technician just came and went. He found no fault on the equipment and left without changing anything. He is of the opinion that the problem is with Bezeq Beinleumi, and he insists that if the problems continue to contact them. However, he cannot give to me a paper which describes what he had found, so that I might give that paper to Bezeq Beinleumi. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
How many times can an internet connection interruption occur and still be considered acceptable?
I use Bezeq for my infrastructure and Bezeq Beinleumi for my ISP. Every hour or two my internet connection is disconnected. It will remain so until I unplug the modem and plug it back in. Connected to the modem is a D-Link DIR-320 router, which connects my Ubuntu machine via cable and various other devices (laptop, Nook, Android phone) via wireless. Yesterday I called Bezeq Beineumi about the issue, as I've been told by both companies that when the modem's DSL light is lit that the problem is with the ISP. The woman who answered (Galit) informed me that she shows 4 disconnects that day (this was at about 14:00) and that 4 disconnects in a day is considered valid (תקין). Is this really considered valid in the industry? Have things really gotten this bad for consumers? She furthermore insisted that the problem is not with Bezeq Beinleumi but rather with Bezeq, despite the DSL lights. We got a Bezeq technician on the line (Alex) who could not help us diagnose the issue because there was no Windows machine to connect directly to the modem. However, he agreed to send a technician here tomorrow. Unfortunately, I won't be here (my wife will meet the technician) so I suspect that if this intermittent issue does not appear during that time then nothing will get fixed. Is 4 disconnects per half-day really considered acceptable now? Other than the DSL light, can I diagnose problems myself? How? How can I diagnose a bad modem on a home Linux machine? If when the internet is 'down', if I can still access the router's web control panel is that a sign that the router is not to blame? Might the router be to blame, even though a modem reset resolves the issue and even though I can still access the router when the internet is down? Thanks. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Announcing New Israeli Tech User Groups
On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 7:30 PM, Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il wrote: I think Shlomi is the best authority for cat Meow? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: How many times can an internet connection interruption occur and still be considered acceptable?
On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 10:35 PM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: If your infrastructure was upgraded from an aDSL-2 to vDSL/aDSL-2 combination units, you need to upgrade your modem. You can tell, by the maximum speed BEZEQ can offer you. If it is 15m or less it is aDSL-2, if it is more, than the hardware was upgraded. The problem is the upgraded hardware does not do aDSL-2 very well, and you should upgrade to vDSL. BEZEQ does not tell people this when they make the upgrade. Thank you, this seems to be the issue. I know that Bezeq has recently installed (within the past year) a connection box 30 meters from my building, with all sorts of fiber optic connections inside, buzzing fans and blinking lights. The guy who installed it showed me around the box while my dog waited patiently for her walk! In fact, just last week I got a call from Bezeq offering to upgrade my 5 MiB/sec connection to something higher that I don't remember. I refused only because he wanted my billing information and I wasn't willing to give that information to someone who called _me_, rather I said that I'll call Bezeq and give that information. When it turned out that was impossible, I decided that I was talking to a phone-phisher and told him that I refuse to give that information over a call that I did not initiate. While you are at it, you should upgrade your router. It's going to have all sorts of problems running out of space for routing tables, and very likely does not reset NAT tables when the line drops. I don't understand why this would be an issue. Why are the routing tables going to be larger? The router needs store only the routing tables for the devices that it acts as a default gateway for, i.e. my LAN and that hasn't changed. Wouldn't NAT tables be discarded anyway after a short time? How else could two computers on the LAN browse the same website? I have had really good results with a D-Link 6740vn router from BEZQ which has an integrated vDSL modem. It's nice because you can log into the router and check the speed and quality of the DSL connection. You can even run BERT (bit error rate) tests on the fly. I'll ask about that. Thanks. Note that almost no one in Israel had an aDSL connection to their central office. BEZEQ quietly replaced every line they could, and are still working on the rest with fiber optic connections. Each connection is 100mBit and gets split at the corner to DSL lines. So your actual DSL connection is a most a few hundred meters, and often a lot less. Geoff. Thank you! -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: How many times can an internet connection interruption occur and still be considered acceptable?
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 2:38 AM, Guy Gold guy1g...@gmail.com wrote: If Dotan connects a laptop to the modem's LAN port, instead of the router, and the same issues keep happening, doesn't that clear the router from being the culprit ? Seeing how Bezeq does not have a Linux 'dialer' this is not an option. I already fought with them on the phone about this. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: How many times can an internet connection interruption occur and still be considered acceptable?
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:06 AM, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote: Yes. However, unless his laptop has a darned complete firewall, he'd better reformat it after that test. What would you recommend? I'm not running an SSH server on the desktop, so if I shut down my local Apache instance will I be safe? Note that I am using an up-to-date Linux distro (Kubuntu), not Windows. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: A funny thing happend to me tonight.
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson In xsession-errors I found the problem. Sometime in 12.04's maintenance a bug was introduced to Gnome on Intel GMA-950 video cards. It was not in the 12.10 release, but was propagated between Wednesday when I installed it, and Saturday night when I upgraded it. It runs of of space somewhere, the diagnostic message makes it look like disk space but it is in the video card itself. Although the bugs filed are for Gnome, using KDM and KDE did not fix it. Please report that bug, Geoff: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug/?no-redirect This, Dotan, is the reason why I said NO ONE can warranty that Linux, especially UBUNTU will run on a computer. I don't see how it is relevant. I didn't ask anyone to sell me a computer running Linux that will never have any userspace software issues. I asked a company which sells computer components which motherboard has components that are currently compatible with commonly-available Linux distros. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: A funny thing happend to me tonight.
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 11:51 AM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: Dotan Cohen wrote: Please report that bug, Geoff: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug/?no-redirect It's already been reported. That's how I found out that it existed. I don't think I can document it with any useful information except that it worked on Wednesday and was dead on Saturday. Since I no longer have that system, I restored to a Friday backup, I can't look for anything. I hope that you at lest clicked the Launchpad.net button for Also affects me as I do know that Canonical takes that seriously. I don't see how it is relevant. I didn't ask anyone to sell me a computer running Linux that will never have any userspace software issues. I asked a company which sells computer components which motherboard has components that are currently compatible with commonly-available Linux distros. It's relevant IMHO because it goes against conventional wisdom. If you tried a live CD, if you did an install on one system, if you looked at the Hardware Compatibility Lists, if you just looked up the driver status of every bit of hardware on the computer, if you had rolled twelve sided dice and accepted anything above 7 on each of them, it would have been ok, but failed miserably if you installed them this morning. I'm not even sure it is a userspace issue. Before I gave up and went back to my working backup, I tried KDE. I got effectively the same results. I may of had something misconfigured at that point, but I can't tell anymore. I'm not trying to make this a personal attack, and apologize if you were or are offended in any way. I seriously do not think it is possible for a computer vendor, even the size of Ivory, to warrant that a computer you buy will run Linux. Ironicaly, I did buy the laptop in question from Ivory, almost 4 years ago to the day. In that time it has run Linux, Windows, BSD, occasionaly all at the same time. Although I have had to live with lots of features of UBUNTU, until last night it never failed to run. I'm not offended, Geoff! I actually find your opinion very pragmatic even if I disagree. Now, if you tell me that my children are ugly and my dog is disobedient, I will be very much offended indeed! -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Motherboards for new Ubuntu install
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Oleg Goldshmidt p...@goldshmidt.org wrote: What is specific to Ubuntu as far as MoBo is concerned? I would look at the kernel. Are Ubuntu kernels very different? I don't suspect that Ubuntu is very different from what could be any other distro, but I mention Ubuntu (Kubuntu, specifically) because that is what I'll be using. With my last Asus motherboard install (summer 2012) Ubuntu did not have the proper NIC driver. I also could not build the proper one as *buntu does not come with the tools necessary to compile software. It was a real mess. The Gigabyte GA-H77M-D3H board comes with a Atheros GbE LAN chip (10/100/1000 Mbit): http://il.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4143#sp There is no mention of which driver it needs, and I strongly suspect that the 1000 Mbit part requires nonconventional drivers as was the case with Asus board's NIC. There wasn't even a legacy mode for 10 Mbit communications. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Motherboards for new Ubuntu install
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: In the last few years I purchased from Ivory several computers, usually the cheapest ones with the simplest motherboards, etc., and was always able to run the latest Linux (I prefer Fedora, but I don't think it matters) without any problem. Thanks, Nadav, that has been my experience as well (with Ivory and KSP). However, just last summer the 'new breed' of motherboards have been introducing features that may or may not be supported under Linux such as UEFI, 1000 Mbit LAN cards, etc. It seems that the Ubuntu Hardware Compatibility List website is no I don't think the issue is whether Ubuntu supports it, but rather whether the Linux kernel supports it. And with all likelihood, it does (but don't come blaming me if it doesn't ;-)).. That is correct, but each distro will compile or supply different drivers as per the hardware that they test on. That doesn't mean that the required driver is not available for Linux, but rather that it may be difficult to obtain / install on any arbitrary distro. them to ditch Ivory. I have spoken with Ivory customer support, which told me that they cannot guarantee that any of the motherboards will work. If you want to buy 4 computers, why not buy one, test it, and then buy the 3 more? Exactly what we will do. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Motherboards for new Ubuntu install
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Baruch Siach bar...@tkos.co.il wrote: You'll need to access a running machine to extract the PCI ID information, though, since Gigabyte's manual is not very helpful. Is that the chicken, or the egg? In other words, if I did have access to a running system, I would already know if it works or not! -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Motherboards for new Ubuntu install
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Michael Shiloh michaelshiloh1...@gmail.com wrote: Is there a chance Ivory would let you boot their computers (assuming they have an assembled computer with one of these motherboards) with a live CD? I already asked, they would not. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Motherboards for new Ubuntu install
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Oleg Goldshmidt p...@goldshmidt.org wrote: So that's what is special about Ubuntu... I don't use it, so lack of tools is a foreign concept to me. I am sure the necessary stuff can be installed though. Sure, but doing so without network is a pain. It's not typing peek and poke instructions from a magazine into a BASIC interpreter, but a pain nonetheless. The Gigabyte GA-H77M-D3H board comes with a Atheros GbE LAN chip (10/100/1000 Mbit): http://il.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4143#sp There is no mention of which driver it needs, and I strongly suspect that the 1000 Mbit part requires nonconventional drivers Or maybe just experimental, see http://lxr.linux.no/#linux+v3.7.1/drivers/net/ethernet/atheros/Kconfig#L16 That is likely, considering the novelty of the device. Like Nadav, I don't buy much HW but I have never had a problem with anything. My process is, I get a spec from a vendor, look it up, including the components (e.g., NIC, video card, etc.), and then check whether everything is supported. if you ask Ivory or KSP for 2/3 options chances are you will find a MoBo that will work out of the box. Since there is no certified with Ubintu sticker the research is yours to do. You know, I suppose, what kernel version your distro uses. They may modify the kernel (RH do, after all) but they are not likely to throw out a working driver. Get the sources (see LXR above) and/or Google and you will likely find what you seek. The problem is that the specs are not readily available. I have asked Ivory for even a single option, they cannot ensure that any system that they provide will support any Linux distro. I plan on running by KSP tomorrow. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Motherboards for new Ubuntu install
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 1:54 PM, Baruch Siach bar...@tkos.co.il wrote: This board surely runs Windows. You can extract the PCI ID from its Device Manager, or whatever it's called there. Also, some BIOSes list PCI devices with IDs in the initial screen. Thanks, I will ask if I can get that information from a running box. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Motherboards for new Ubuntu install
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 3:45 PM, E.S. Rosenberg esr+linux...@g.jct.ac.il wrote: Generally the linux drivers cover an equally large if not larger spectrum... I have an Atheros chip from that family on my laptop, it required me to install one more package for wired communication (wireless [different chip, also atheros] worked out of the box): 03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR8162 Fast Ethernet (rev 10) The weird thing was that the driver detection program didn't realize this... Either way the package that provides the 'alx' driver on Ubuntu 12.10 is: linux-backports-modules-cw-3.6-quantal-generic Thanks. I'll try to get a copy of the package to try to install locally if the driver does not work. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Motherboards for new Ubuntu install
On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 1:29 AM, E.S. Rosenberg esr+linux...@g.jct.ac.il wrote: Note that that is a meta-package that installs the kernel specific package, so you'll need to download at least the kernel specific one and the meta package is good to make sure that after a kernel upgrade you still have the drivers. Regards, Eliyahu - אליהו Thanks. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Motherboards for new Ubuntu install
On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 11:00 PM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: I don't understand. I'm looking for a place to buy a computer. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Motherboards for new Ubuntu install
On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 11:24 PM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: I'm looking for a place to buy a computer. That part I did understand. What I did NOT understand is how can a retail vendor of computers warranty that a particular disto of Linux will run on a specific computer unless that Linux comes from the manufacturer of the computer. I had called them looking for a system run Ubuntu on. I approached them with this is what I need the computer to do and they did not have the knowledge to sell me a system which does what I need it to do. That is fine, but I still need a computer! Therefore I turn to the Linux-Il mailing list in the hopes that someone may have bought a computer in the past few months and could recommend a vendor. Surely there exist on the market at least on motherboard on which Ubuntu will run out of the box. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Motherboards for new Ubuntu install
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 12:46 AM, E.S. Rosenberg esr+linux...@g.jct.ac.il wrote: (List answer) What problems did you have with recent motherboards? I have generally had very little to no problems with recent stuff, although it obviously depends on what technologies are being used. About half a year ago Geoffrey and Baruch Siach helped me install Kubuntu on a recent ASUS P8H61 MLX motherboard. There were problems with the NIC driver, and even after that was resolved DHCP would Not Work (tm). This was after about a week of troubleshooting, as the reported NIC was not the one for which the drivers were needed. On my new laptop the installation was less fun but this was/is mainly due to UEFI, the way it boots things (it wouldn't boot my bootable disk-on-key, but simple bootable disk-on-keys worked [mine has multiple OS'es/distros]). I did not have UEFI issues, though I would of course like to avoid them as well. The Intel H61 series chipset is certified to work with Ubuntu since 11.10 as is the H77 obviously that does not cover the additional components on the board but it's a start http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/catalog/make/Intel%20Corporation/?page=5 Thanks, that is a start. The board at least has a PCI slot so I could add a cheap network card if need be. I suspect that what will give and gave most problems recently is the UEFI which changes the way we treat how our computer boots: - You have to have a vfat boot partition of ~250MiB at the beginning of the disk (mount at /boot/efi and _not_ at /boot, you can have a separate /boot too though) - The disk needs to use got and not a dos partiton table etc. Basically a lot of our skills at booting a system have become obsolete... Thank you for the information. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Hebrew on rooted Android e-ink device (Nook)
I just rooted an Android Barnes and Noble Nook SimpleTouch Glow device. Everything works, but I cannot seem to get the device to show Hebrew fonts. I put fonts with Hebrew glyphs in /system/fonts and rebooted the device,but I still get rectangles instead of letters. Every tutorial that I see on Google recommends to do exactly what I've done: just drop the fonts in /system/fonts. Does anybody have any ideas what else I might need to do? I used this tutorial to root: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1675706 Thanks. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: USB Mug Warmer [OT]
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 7:38 AM, Dan Shimshoni danshi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Did anyone have a real experience with Mug Warmer USB gadget? I mean, except for the fun of it, did anybody try to heat and drink tea with it ? It seems to me that it does not get higher temperatures than 40-50 Celsssius ? is it good enough? just for example, Satzuma USB Mug Warmer, http://ksp.co.il/?uin=15311 You run the risk of burning out your USB ports with a device like that. I have such a device, but I wired it to an old 5 V cell phone charger. I do not see that it helps very much as the bottom of the mug is ceramic and therefore insulated. I suppose if you had a mug with a metal bottom it would be more practical. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: How to build LAN drivers with no internet access
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 6:22 AM, Baruch Siach bar...@tkos.co.il wrote: So how did you solve it eventually? First I installed the updated kernel, then set a static IP address and the default gateway. DNS wouldn't work until I renewed the DHCP lease even though I have a static IP address. Stupid, but it works. Thanks! -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: How to build LAN drivers with no internet access
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Baruch Siach bar...@tkos.co.il wrote: For DNS resolution to work you need to have a valid 'nameserver' entry in your /etc/resolv.conf file. Right, but on recent Debians one should not edit that file directly. Rather, the info should be added to /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf in this form: prepend domain-name-servers 8.8.8.8, 8.8.4.4; prepend domain-name-servers 2001:4860:4860::, 2001:4860:4860::8844; Then the Debian magic works to put the right info in /etc/resolv.conf. I checked, it is there. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: How to build LAN drivers with no internet access
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 3:12 PM, Udi Finkelstein linux...@udif.com wrote: Stupid? Why? You didn't have to set a static IP address in the first place. I think that if you have renewed you DHCP lease first, it would have done all 3 automatically (IP, default gateway, DNS). You would think! Alas, that did not help. All this information is part of the DHCP response and there is no way to get it. (In a typical broadband setup, your router gets the DNS setting from the provider, and you get it from your router via DHCP). Right, but for some reason neither in Kubuntu nor openSuse was DHCP working for this computer, even though the router is configured properly. If you are in the Be'er Sheva area I'll gladly format a partition and let you explore, but this was a real problem. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
How to build LAN drivers with no internet access
/manpages-dev_3.35-0.1ubuntu1_all.deb File not found E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing? shelly@neptune:~$ df Filesystem 1K-blocksUsed Available Use% Mounted on /dev/sda5 15570572 2675916 12113448 19% / udev 829680 4829676 1% /dev tmpfs 336752 816335936 1% /run none5120 0 5120 0% /run/lock none 841872 80841792 1% /run/shm /dev/sda6 454024280 6869848 424428648 2% /home /dev/sr0 3401516 3401516 0 100% /media/apt shelly@neptune:~$ ls /media/ apt/.directory .hidden shelly@neptune:~$ ls /media/apt/ autorun.inf boot casper cdromupgrade dists doc efi install isolinux md5sum.txt pics pool preseed README.diskdefines ubuntu wubi.exe As can be seen, the Kubuntu DVD is in the drive. The CDROM repos are enabled in /etc/apt/sources.list. What must I do from here? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: How to build LAN drivers with no internet access
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Baruch Siach bar...@tkos.co.il wrote: Hi Dotan, On Mon, Jul 02, 2012 at 02:32:13PM +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote: I need to build the LAN drivers for an ASUS P8H61 MLX motherboard with no internet access on Kubuntu 12.04. The driver is available here: http://www.realtek.com/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1PNid=13PFid=5Level=5Conn=4DownTypeID=3GetDown=false#2 These NICs should be well supported in recent kernels. On a stock install of Kubuntu 12.04 (and previous versions that I tried, and openSuse 12.1) the kernel tries to use the r8169 driver. That is obviously wrong! Make sure that you have the firmware-realtek package installed. Doesn't seem to be available: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=firmware-realtek If the firmware for your NIC is missing from firmware-realtek (rtl8402-1.fw and rtl8411-1.fw currently) get it from http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git;a=tree;f=rtl_nic;h=433ba2c0164f9809221d969d3d60e605575790fc;hb=HEAD, and copy to /lib/firmware/rtl_nic/. Thank you. I am reinstalling the OS after some failed tinkering, I will try that. Hope this helps. I hope so too! -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: How to build LAN drivers with no internet access
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Evgeniy Ginzburg nad@gmail.com wrote: Take a look at your /etc/apt/sources.list There is ave to be cdrom entry. Add it manually or use sudo apt-cdrom add Of course I enabled the cdrom repo by removing the leading hash marks. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: How to build LAN drivers with no internet access
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Baruch Siach bar...@tkos.co.il wrote: If the firmware for your NIC is missing from firmware-realtek (rtl8402-1.fw and rtl8411-1.fw currently) get it from http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git;a=tree;f=rtl_nic;h=433ba2c0164f9809221d969d3d60e605575790fc;hb=HEAD, and copy to /lib/firmware/rtl_nic/. Hope this helps. baruch On a fresh install, having only moved the mentioned files to /lib/firmware/rtl_nic and then rebooting: shelly@neptune:~$ ls /lib/firmware/rtl_nic/ rtl8105e-1.fw rtl8168d-1.fw rtl8168d-2.fw rtl8168e-1.fw rtl8168e-2.fw rtl8168e-3.fw rtl8168f-1.fw rtl8168f-2.fw rtl8402-1.fw rtl8411-1.fw rtl_nic_rtl8402-1.fw rtl_nic_rtl8411-1.fw Still no IP address: shelly@neptune:~$ ifconfig eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 54:04:a6:82:6b:eb inet6 addr: fe80::5604:a6ff:fe82:6beb/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:1 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:73 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:60 (60.0 B) TX bytes:16788 (16.7 KB) Interrupt:41 Base address:0xa000 loLink encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:112 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:112 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:8880 (8.8 KB) TX bytes:8880 (8.8 KB) Still using the old driver: shelly@neptune:~$ sudo lshw | grep r8 [sudo] password for shelly: configuration: autonegotiation=on broadcast=yes driver=r8169 driverversion=2.3LK-NAPI duplex=full firmware=rtl8168e-3_0.0.4 03/27/12 latency=0 link=yes multicast=yes port=MII speed=100Mbit/s So I try to change drivers but cannot load the new driver: shelly@neptune:~$ sudo modprobe -r r8169 shelly@neptune:~$ sudo modprobe r8411 FATAL: Module r8411 not found. shelly@neptune:~$ sudo modprobe r8402 FATAL: Module r8402 not found. shelly@neptune:~$ sudo modprobe rtl8411 FATAL: Module rtl8411 not found. shelly@neptune:~$ sudo modprobe rtl_nic_8411 FATAL: Module rtl_nic_8411 not found. shelly@neptune:~$ sudo modprobe rtl_nic_8411-1 FATAL: Module rtl_nic_8411_1 not found. shelly@neptune:~$ sudo modprobe rtl_nic_8411-1.fw FATAL: Module rtl_nic_8411_1.fw not found. shelly@neptune:~$ What should I do now? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: How to build LAN drivers with no internet access
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Baruch Siach bar...@tkos.co.il wrote: Still using the old driver: shelly@neptune:~$ sudo lshw | grep r8 [sudo] password for shelly: configuration: autonegotiation=on broadcast=yes driver=r8169 driverversion=2.3LK-NAPI duplex=full firmware=rtl8168e-3_0.0.4 03/27/12 latency=0 link=yes multicast=yes port=MII speed=100Mbit/s Looks good so far. This is the right driver, no need to unload. That is the driver that it was using from the very beginning. There is no change. So I try to change drivers but cannot load the new driver: shelly@neptune:~$ sudo modprobe -r r8169 shelly@neptune:~$ sudo modprobe r8411 FATAL: Module r8411 not found. shelly@neptune:~$ sudo modprobe r8402 FATAL: Module r8402 not found. shelly@neptune:~$ sudo modprobe rtl8411 FATAL: Module rtl8411 not found. shelly@neptune:~$ sudo modprobe rtl_nic_8411 FATAL: Module rtl_nic_8411 not found. shelly@neptune:~$ sudo modprobe rtl_nic_8411-1 FATAL: Module rtl_nic_8411_1 not found. shelly@neptune:~$ sudo modprobe rtl_nic_8411-1.fw FATAL: Module rtl_nic_8411_1.fw not found. shelly@neptune:~$ What should I do now? The driver automatically loads the firmware, which in you case seems to be rtl8168e-3.fw. Just set an IP address for eth0 and ping away. I was actually hoping to get DHCP enabled. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: How to build LAN drivers with no internet access
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Baruch Siach bar...@tkos.co.il wrote: What should I do now? The driver automatically loads the firmware, which in you case seems to be rtl8168e-3.fw. Just set an IP address for eth0 and ping away. I cannot seem to add an IP address: shelly@neptune:~$ ifconfig loLink encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:264 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:264 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:19712 (19.7 KB) TX bytes:19712 (19.7 KB) shelly@neptune:~$ sudo ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.110 netmask 255.255.255.0 SIOCSIFADDR: No such device eth0: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device SIOCSIFNETMASK: No such device shelly@neptune:~$ sudo route add default gw 192.168.0.1 eth0 SIOCADDRT: No such device shelly@neptune:~$ Reference information from another computer on the LAN that gets its address via DHCP: - saturn:~$ ifconfig eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:1f:c6:85:0c:8e inet addr:192.168.0.100 Bcast:192.168.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 inet6 addr: fe80::21f:c6ff:fe85:c8e/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:5873203 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:4508575 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:8605892859 (8.6 GB) TX bytes:353677967 (353.6 MB) Interrupt:42 Base address:0x2000 - saturn:~$ route -n Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric RefUse Iface 0.0.0.0 192.168.0.1 0.0.0.0 UG0 00 eth0 169.254.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 1000 00 eth0 192.168.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 1 00 eth0 - saturn:~$ -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: How to build LAN drivers with no internet access
I can now connect, but I don't have DNS: shelly@neptune:~$ ping 192.117.111.61 connect: Network is unreachable shelly@neptune:~$ sudo ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.110 netmask 255.255.255.0 shelly@neptune:~$ sudo route add default gw 192.168.0.1 eth0 shelly@neptune:~$ ping 192.117.111.61 PING 192.117.111.61 (192.117.111.61) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 192.117.111.61: icmp_req=1 ttl=64 time=1.21 ms 64 bytes from 192.117.111.61: icmp_req=2 ttl=64 time=0.507 ms ^C --- 192.117.111.61 ping statistics --- 2 packets transmitted, 2 received, 0% packet loss, time 1001ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.507/0.859/1.212/0.353 ms shelly@neptune:~$ ping google.com ping: unknown host google.com shelly@neptune:~$ ifconfig eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 54:04:a6:82:6b:eb inet addr:192.168.0.110 Bcast:192.168.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 inet6 addr: fe80::5604:a6ff:fe82:6beb/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:13 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:47 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:856 (856.0 B) TX bytes:7339 (7.3 KB) Interrupt:41 Base address:0xa000 loLink encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:160 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:160 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:11440 (11.4 KB) TX bytes:11440 (11.4 KB) Why doesn't the DNS work, isn't this how to set it properly (to Google's public DNS): shelly@neptune:~$ cat /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf prepend domain-name-servers 8.8.8.8, 8.8.4.4; prepend domain-name-servers 2001:4860:4860::, 2001:4860:4860::8844; And for that matter, why did I have to set the IP address manually? Shouldn't that be already set like this: shelly@neptune:~$ cat /etc/network/interfaces iface eth0 inet static address 192.168.0.110 netmask 255.255.255.0 gateway 192.168.0.1 auto lo iface lo inet loopback -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: How to build LAN drivers with no internet access
Baruch and Geoffrey, I want to say again thank you. For about 6 hours you were here helping me get the disaster sorted out. I learned very much about Linux and networking in those hours. I had already given up hope about this and really didn't know what I was going to do: I could not return the motherboard and there isn't even a PCI slot on the thing to put a NIC on! There is cold beer waiting for you two in Be'er Sheva! -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux HTML mail agent with RTL and LTR paragraph explicit support
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:02 PM, Shachar Shemesh shac...@shemesh.biz wrote: On 06/25/2012 06:21 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote: Schachar, I before addressing the issue at hand, I would like to state an observation. When I reply to your mail, all text is of the same quote level. That is, there is a single gt at the beginning of each line, whether it is a line that you wrote or a line that I wrote. Until I debug this, I'm replying as plain text only. Thanks. Are you referring to the use of linefeeds to designate the end of an embedded section? No. I'm referring to paragraph terminators. Which ASCII code is that? Even googling for it I cannot find that character, other than the newline. Is it the newline? Dotan, may I suggest you go read the standard before making claims on what it is saying? I never quoted any standard nor made any claim as to what the standard says. I only asked for clarification. In any case I tried to get past the issue of what designates the end of a paragraph as quickly as possible to return to the original issue: the fact that one need not employ HTML to ensure RTL or even Bidi text. From the standard (section 3), the UBA[1] is applied by using the following four steps: - Separation into paragraphs - Initialization - Resolution of the embedding levels - Reordering Paragraphs are resolved in step 1 and 2. RLEs in 3. They are simply not the same thing. BD5 defines paragraph direction. So we have established that sections of text separated by newlines are paragraphs. Let us return to the issue. In a plain text file, as defined above, there does exist a method by which the author of the file may specify that a paragraph is to be RTL. There exists many. Specifically, the standard, which I urge you to read, offers one, and then specifically says that others are also okay (i.e.- not in violation of the standard). These are mentioned in the text right after P3, and again at HL1. It seems to me you are trying to force your agenda. What agenda is that? I didn't even notice that I had an agenda. I would like to see the non-printing characters on the Hebrew layout but I can live without it. I would like to see peace with our neighbours but if it is a choice between security and peace then I choose security. I would like to earn a comfortable living and have a healthy family, but that is my own onus, not an issue for the list! Therefore there is no need for HTML to send RTL emails, nor is there technical need for the email client to guess. Except there so no standard, de-facto or otherwise (as far as I'm aware) on whether HL1 is being applied be email clients for plain text emails, and the HTML standard is that HL1 is being applied, and paragraph direction must be set. Have I forgotten anything? Yes. To substantiate your claims. Fair enough. This is a plain-text email. This is an English sentence, should be displayed from left to right. זאת שפה העברית, אמור להוליך מימין לשמאל. שים דגש על מיקום הנודה בסוף. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux HTML mail agent with RTL and LTR paragraph explicit support
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:28 AM, Shachar Shemesh shac...@shemesh.biz wrote: If you want your Hebrew email to appear as you have written it, you need to send it in HTML. I would like to see an example of Hebrew mail that you believe cannot be represented in plain text, under the conditions that such a mail could be represented in plain text had it been written in English (i.e., no formatting, images, etc.). -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux HTML mail agent with RTL and LTR paragraph explicit support
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Eli Zaretskii e...@gnu.org wrote: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:28:13 +0300 From: Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il I never quoted any standard nor made any claim as to what the standard says. I only asked for clarification. In any case I tried to get past the issue of what designates the end of a paragraph as quickly as possible to return to the original issue: the fact that one need not employ HTML to ensure RTL or even Bidi text. Is the definition I posted a few messages back unclear in some way? In a nutshell, a paragraph is delimited by hard newlines (which could be some sequence of characters such as CRLF, or something else, depending on the platform, the application, and the context) or by a special character u+2029 PARAGRAPH SEPARATOR. Yes, it was clear. This is a plain-text email. This is an English sentence, should be displayed from left to right. זאת שפה העברית, אמור להוליך מימין לשמאל. שים דגש על מיקום הנודה בסוף. Emacs does TRT with these two paragraphs. What is TRT? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux HTML mail agent with RTL and LTR paragraph explicit support
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 10:17 PM, Shachar Shemesh shac...@shemesh.biz wrote: On 06/26/2012 11:34 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote: On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:28 AM, Shachar Shemesh shac...@shemesh.biz wrote: If you want your Hebrew email to appear as you have written it, you need to send it in HTML. I would like to see an example of Hebrew mail that you believe cannot be represented in plain text, under the conditions that such a mail could be represented in plain text had it been written in English (i.e., no formatting, images, etc.). That is not what I said. What I said is that plain text email cannot be expected to be displayed properly by the recipient's mail agent. And I asked for an example of Hebrew text that you think a mail client won't display properly. Alternatively, which email client will not display the following sentence correctly? אין שמש גשם יש רק צל. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux HTML mail agent with RTL and LTR paragraph explicit support
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Shachar Shemesh shac...@shemesh.biz wrote: I disagree completely. The embedding control characters are designed for, well, embedding. Correct. As plain text has no concept of a paragraph, using \n, \n\n, \r\n, \r\n\r\n, or any other convention for a paragraph is arbitrary. So if any arbitrary part of the text is to be RTL (no matter if the user calls it a paragraph or not) then it is to be marked as an embedded RTL section. What the standard[1] suggests, but does not require, is the use of the first strong directional character in the paragraph. The reasons this does not work for email are: It is not required by the standard. It is suggested as a way to determine paragraph directionality, but this suggestion is incomplete. For example, the standard says nothing about what to do with a paragraph with no strong directional character at all. This suggestion is non-normative. The standard explicitly states that a higher level protocol can be used to determine this property. HTML has chosen the higher level property as the BiDi directionality path. Unless certain discussions currently in effect become standard, HTML will not guess the directionality of a paragraph ever, no matter how much you want it to. There are some discussions about adding a direction: auto property to CSS. The only standard way to provide paragraph directionality in email is by sending it as HTML A few takeaways. There is no standard I'm aware of that states you SHOULDN'T use the first character in a paragraph to determine paragraph direction in plain-text emails. I think that is a perfectly reasonable approach. However, most of the world uses various MS based email readers. Those don't do it, and they do not violate any standard by not doing it. As a result, if you want your email to be legible by any recipient, HTML mail is the way to go if you are writing in Hebrew. Complaining to your recipient (or sender) that they are not doing it properly is both impolite and, which I feel many people here will see as worse, technically incorrect. I know many people on this list don't like this standard, but this extra email did nothing to change it (not that I, personally, think that changing it is the right thing to do). I agree with you completely in regards to interoperating with defacto-standard software. Are you referring to me, in regard to the discussion that we had in which I think that the LTR- and RTL-Embedding characters should be available in the Hebrew keyboard layout? No. I am referring to all those who complain so violently when HTML mail is sent to the list. I see. I'm glad that I know how to configure my email client properly not to notice it, and that I have the disk space to spare for some markup. I wonder how loud those folks would scream if they noticed that Hebrew UTF-8 characters are _two_ bytes long! That doesn't mean that I dislike the idea of using HTML. Actually, I don't like HTML mail but not for that reason, rather a personal preference with no root in ideology nor technical reason. Okay, so maybe I was referring to you after all :-) No, I'm not a complainer. I don't like _sending_ HTML mail, but I'll happily receive the mail in any format that standard email clients support (NOT Word!). -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux HTML mail agent with RTL and LTR paragraph explicit support
Schachar, I before addressing the issue at hand, I would like to state an observation. When I reply to your mail, all text is of the same quote level. That is, there is a single gt at the beginning of each line, whether it is a line that you wrote or a line that I wrote. Obviously, I am replying to the HTML portion of your multipart message, not the plain text portion. My mailer (Gmail) does not know that blockquote type=cite means that the text is a quote. Why should it, is that a standard (I don't know, it might be)? This is a good argument against HTML mail. You can tell me that my mailer (Gmail) is broken. But remember that Gmail is now no less a defacto standard mailer such as Outlook once was, and that you advocate compatibility with Outlook based on it's defacto standard status. I've manually fixed the nesting below: On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Shachar Shemesh shac...@shemesh.biz wrote: On 06/25/2012 01:42 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote: On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Shachar Shemesh shac...@shemesh.biz wrote: I disagree completely. The embedding control characters are designed for, well, embedding. Correct. Good. But As plain text has no concept of a paragraph, Well, that really depends on what you mean by plain text. Plain text is a sequence of bytes in a standard encoding which may or may not begin with a BOM and is designed to be read in a text editor. A text editor is a program that reads a sequence of bytes and using a table commonly referred to as an encoding then displays character glyphs on the screen as per the sequence of bytes. RLE/PDF are defined by the UBA (Unicode BiDi Algorithm), and it, clearly, does have a concept of a paragraph. Are you referring to the use of linefeeds to designate the end of an embedded section? using \n, \n\n, \r\n, \r\n\r\n, or any other convention for a paragraph is arbitrary. Technically true, but both irrelevant and misleading. Misleading because the choice of \n or \r\n was arbitrary, but is now standard. Irrelevant because we are talking about the UBA, not plain text (whatever that means). I see that you are. Fine, I was unaware that they did call that a paragraph and I do know that embedded sections do end at newlines. Whatever, let us agree then that sections of text separated by newlines are paragraphs as that is how the embedded sections end. So if any arbitrary part of the text is to be RTL (no matter if the user calls it a paragraph or not) then it is to be marked as an embedded RTL section. This is incorrect. It does not matter much what the user calls a paragraph, but if the text editor calls a certain run a paragraph, then that is the case. Alright. You make it sound as if, in the sequence something RLE more something \n even more PDF, the third part, saying even more will have an RTL level. That will simply not be the case with any UBA conforming text editor, as UBA specifically says that any embedding levels are reset when the paragraph is terminated. This is because the embedding controls are embedded in the paragraph. In other words, a paragraph is a paragraph, with BiDi direction, and embedding is embedding. The two are not the same. So we have established that sections of text separated by newlines are paragraphs. Let us return to the issue. In a plain text file, as defined above, there does exist a method by which the author of the file may specify that a paragraph is to be RTL. Therefore there is no need for HTML to send RTL emails, nor is there technical need for the email client to guess. However, I agree that there is practical need for the email client to guess as many users may not mark RTL paragraphs as RTL (be them plain text or HTML). Have I forgotten anything? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux HTML mail agent with RTL and LTR paragraph explicit support
On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Dov Grobgeld dov.grobg...@gmail.com wrote: After having suffered with terrible outllook web mail for sending email at work for a long time, the system is finally able to accept SMTP connections. I suggest Thunderbird, for the following reasons: So I set out looking for a mail agent that has the following properties: Ability to send HTML mail. Thunderbird can do this. Actually, it is the default and I hate it! Ability to set the Bidi base direction explicitly of each paragraph. Of course this is dependant on HTML email. However, unless an email client lets you edit the HTML and change the dir attribute for each, I don't think that you will find this feature. For my own use in plain text mail (should also work in HTML mail) I use the RTL- and LTR-embedding characters: http://dotancohen.com/howto/rtl_right_to_left.html#TableOfNonprintingCharacters SMTP TLS support for email delivery. (Setting up sendmail to use SMTP TLS would also be acceptable.) Tbird! Attachements. Tbird! Reading email. Archiving/threading, etc. Tbird! Actually I would be perfectly happy if I could fullfill these requirements within emacs. If you could find a decent text editor for it! I'm sure that you've seen the recent RTL support added to Emacs. Another tool that would be acceptable is something gmail like, that could act as a client to POP3/SMTP. You can use Gmail as a client to receive email via POP3 or IMAP, but you will have to send via Gmail's SMTP servers. I just checked, in the Gmail web interface with HTML mail, you can set paragraph directionality for each paragraph! So what do you guys use? Does evolution have explicit bidi support? Whatabout thunderbird? I love Thunderbird. I have the RTL- and LTR-embedding characters on hotkeys using this: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/quicktext/ And don't forget the wonderful BiDi Mail UI: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/bidi-mail-ui/ -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux HTML mail agent with RTL and LTR paragraph explicit support
On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 7:30 PM, Shachar Shemesh shac...@shemesh.biz wrote: There is a standard way to specify paragraph directionality in emails. It is done through HTML. There is a standard way in HTML to specify directionality. Unless a recent proposed change to HTML5 is accepted, the first directional character of the paragraph is not it. I think that you mean that there is a standard way to specify directionality in HTML, so if one needs directionality then he should send HTML emails. There is a way to specify directionality in plain text, too: U+202A and U+202B (LTR- and RTL-Embedding characters). I know many people on this list don't like this standard, but this extra email did nothing to change it (not that I, personally, think that changing it is the right thing to do). Are you referring to me, in regard to the discussion that we had in which I think that the LTR- and RTL-Embedding characters should be available in the Hebrew keyboard layout? That doesn't mean that I dislike the idea of using HTML. Actually, I don't like HTML mail but not for that reason, rather a personal preference with no root in ideology nor technical reason. One of the paragraphs of this email was marked as RTL for no reason other than a whim. Eli will not know which it was, and his reply will not contain this bit of information. I wondered what happened to that paragraph! -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Emacs Hebrew
On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 6:44 PM, Tzafrir Cohen tzaf...@cohens.org.il wrote: Long ago, On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 07:38:34AM +0200, Yuval Hager wrote: Hi, As I my Emacs usage increased recently following the discovery of the amazing org-mode (highly recommended), I began wondering about Bidi in Emacs. The Bidi has landed! Quoting https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/NEWS.24.1 : *** Emacs now supports display and editing of bidirectional text. Right-to-left (RTL) scripts, such as Arabic, Farsi, and Hebrew, are displayed in the correct visual order as expected by users of those scripts. The display reordering is a full bidirectionality class implementation of the Unicode Bidirectional Algorithm (UBA). Buffers with no RTL text should look exactly the same as before. ... *** New Hebrew translation of the Emacs Tutorial. Type `C-u C-h t' to choose it in case your language setup doesn't automatically select it. Congrats! Very nice. I use VIM but I will look at Emacs now. VIM is no good for typing in Hebrew -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Possible improvement to RTL and LTR positional algorithms.
Currently, non-directional characters and blocks of non-directional characters take their directionality from the surrounding directional characters. If the surrounding directional characters are of differing directionality, then the non-directional characters take the directionality of the paragraph / page / containing element. I suppose an improvement could be made in that if one neighbouring character has directionality and the other is whitespace, then the neutral character should get the neighbouring character's directionality. This will help to put the punctuation on the correct side of sentences when the containing element's directionality differs from that of the text. It will also help in other instances, for instance putting the leading / in the correct place when discussing Unix paths in Hebrew documents. What think the experts? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: משחק להפיץ
On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Michael Vasiliev mycr...@infoscav.net wrote: So how's getting them off one proprietary insecure browser and onto another is going to help them? Especially with the all-too-familiar tactics like it works only in our browser. The idea is to break the Internet Explorer only attitude of Israeli websites, especially the government. The idea is not to increase Chrome's marketshare, but to reduce the marketshare of IE. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: משחק להפיץ
On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Udi Finkelstein linux...@udif.com wrote: 5 Minutes ago I saw perhaps the most blatant example of the sad state of Israeli government websites: http://gemelnet.mof.gov.il/Tsuot/UI/DafMakdim.aspx Now, when you press one of the links, what URL are you referred to? vbscript:ow(1,500,670) I don't think I need to say anything more. Udi That is unbelievable. How does something like that even get written? Can that even be called a website? Is serving a pseudo-HTML page over port 80 all that it takes to call a page a webpage? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: a game to publicise [was Re: משחק להפיץ]
On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Shlomi Fish shlo...@shlomifish.org wrote: Hi Dotan, On Tue, 22 May 2012 02:23:30 +0300 Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com wrote: As probably most people on the list do, I try to get friends and family off Internet Explorer. Recently on Slashdot there was mention of a game that only works in Chrome: http://getcrackin.angrybirds.com/ Angry Birds is a popular game, and just sending this link to people gets most of them to install Chrome! So I encourage other list members to suggest this game to friends and family. Don't even mention Chrome, let them discover that detail on their own. I've spoken with someone from Mozilla-Israel (BCCed to this message) now and he told me that Angry Birds works fine in Mozilla Firefox too (though it may not be mentioned there and may require changing the User-Agent header). In general, I think that restricting features to particular browsers, even if they are open-source (which is the case for the Google Chromium project and not for Google Chrome itself), hurts the open web and causes web fragmentation: http://shlomif-tech.livejournal.com/2010/08/31/ That put aside, I don't mind if sites will be displayed or behave in a somewhat broken manner in old versions (or even new version) of Microsoft Internet Explorer, as I explained here: http://www.shlomifish.org/no-ie/ This is because Microsoft is not doing enough to conform to the web standards, and there are open-source alternatives for MSIE everywhere it runs. I should also note that with all the noise surrounding Chrome's performance, the automated tests for the JS port of my ABC-Path solver and generator ran significantly faster when I tested them on Firefox: https://bitbucket.org/shlomif/abc-path/overview Regards, Shlomi Fish Thank you for the insight, Shlomi. I happen to agree with everything that you've mentioned! However, the goal of promoting this site is not to provide a web application for any use or entertainment. Rather, the goal is to give people a reason to install and use a browser other than Internet Explorer. This is especially critical here in Israel where as a Linux user with no access to IE I cannot use many government websites. We need to get a critical mass off of IE. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: a game to publicise [was Re: משחק להפיץ]
On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Tzafrir Cohen tzaf...@cohens.org.il wrote: However, the goal of promoting this site is not to provide a web application for any use or entertainment. Rather, the goal is to give people a reason to install and use a browser other than Internet Explorer. This is especially critical here in Israel where as a Linux user with no access to IE I cannot use many government websites. We need to get a critical mass off of IE. The real reason is to make people abandon any brwser other than Chrome/uim. Which gives me all a good reason not to use it. Tzafir, you are right in assessing the reason that the site was built. But this can be used to get people off of IE. Remember, the goal is to get Israeli websites cross-browser compatible. That will only happen when Israeli users get IE stats down below the 94% that it currently is, when the rest of the world is 50% IE. Only send it to your IE-using friends! -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
משחק להפיץ
As probably most people on the list do, I try to get friends and family off Internet Explorer. Recently on Slashdot there was mention of a game that only works in Chrome: http://getcrackin.angrybirds.com/ Angry Birds is a popular game, and just sending this link to people gets most of them to install Chrome! So I encourage other list members to suggest this game to friends and family. Don't even mention Chrome, let them discover that detail on their own. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: 4G phones in Israel
2012/4/16 Shachar Shemesh shac...@shemesh.biz: On 04/16/2012 05:38 PM, Justin wrote: I own a Droid Bionic in the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droid_Bionic It is not GSM, only CDMA LTE. Does anyone know if it is possible to bring it over and use it with a carrier here? Yes. The answer to your unasked question (i.e. - whether it is, in fact, possible) is no. Shachar If the OP finds this statement confusing, Shachar was answering the question Does anyone know. Yes, somebody knows. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: 4G phones in Israel
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 15:51, sara fink sara.f...@gmail.com wrote: It isn't brought to israel officially yet. Someone bought in canada and sold it here. He brought 5 pieces. 3 were bought by a shop. 1 my friend bought. She definitely told me it's 4th generation. android version 4 too. cpu 1.5ghz chipset qualcomm. gingerbread version. And it's LTE. She bought it this saturday. She told me she put the sim of orange and it works. She connected with the wifi to the internet. She was told that it works with orange and cellcom only. Her only problem is that it doesn't have hebrew keyboard and looks for a free hebrew keyboard. I will ask exactly the complete model. In any case, I will play with it next week. Let me know if she finds that keyboard. I am in the US for one month, and I have an Android phone. I would love a Hebrew keyboard, as all my contacts and calendar are in Hebrew (Gmail sync yay) and I can SMS to Israel. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: libreoffice+hebrew nikud
2012/2/26 Arie Skliarouk sklia...@gmail.com: Hi, A friend of mine asked me for a solution to type weekly daf-kesher for his boy's school. His requirements are pretty basic - all interface to be on hebrew, basic text editing, rashi fonts, nikud, way to scan or transfer photos from a camera and embed them into the document. He has no prior experience with computers, so re-learning is not an issue here. Ubuntu with hebrew-enabled intertface and libreoffice so far fit the requirements. So far he has not mentioned responsa or similar, which would stop ubuntu approach in its tracks. I am concerned on the nikud part, e.g. how well libreoffice supports it. Googling shows rendering issues. The https://bugs.freedesktop.org is down at the moment, so I could not perform more detailed analysis. Can someone testify on the level the hebrew nikud is supported in the libreoffice? Also, the page with nikud extension for openoffice is down: http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/en/project/nikud Does anyone know the where I can download up-to-date version of the extension? I use the Hebrew keymap Lyx to type Nikud. All the nikud are easy to find, Kamatz is on Shift-ק, Patach on Shift-פ, and so forth. Just enable it in the Keyboard settings. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: libreoffice+hebrew nikud
On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 12:11, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Sun, Feb 26, 2012, Arie Skliarouk wrote about libreoffice+hebrew nikud: I am concerned on the nikud part, e.g. how well libreoffice supports it. Googling shows rendering issues. The https://bugs.freedesktop.org is down In my experience, the quality of the niqqud rendering directly depends on the font. For example, the free Culmus fonts, notably David and Frank Reuhl, show niqqud very well. Note that Culmus's Frank Reuhl used to have problems rendering niqqud, until the last Culmus release fixed these problems. One problem I do have with niqqud - and maybe other people can suggest a solution - is how to type them. What I usually do is to cut-and-paste words with niqqud from other texts (or an online dictionary). I never figured out how to set up a keyboard mapping or something to conveniently type niqqud. Like I said earlier, use the Lyx keyboard layout, not to be confused with the LyX document processor. I use it with LibreOffice with no issues at all. Shall I attach sample documents? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 00:45, Oron Peled o...@actcom.co.il wrote: Regretfully, your noble suggestion does not give any significant protection, for various reason (IANAL): * Patents: control *use* and not implementation. So if you write patent infringing code, you have no problem as long as you don't run it. However, your users are at a risk. (as a demo, see how MS threaten OEM's for Android use and not Google) * You may think about idemnifying your users (i.e: promise to financially back their damages), but this isn't a reasonable option unless you have spare cache in the 5-6 digits range (USA, in dollars). * Copyrights: this is a lesser risk, since we know free software developers do not copy/derive code from MS. However, even in this case -- if you are sued for copyright infringment, there's nothing that protect your users from being sued also (In the USA the MPAA/RIAA reminds everybody of this fact -- they sue the end users even if they downloaded infringing content from other infringing party, like youtube/pirate-bay/etc.) Thank you for your insight. I had figured that it is the distribution making available the code which could be construed as infringing. That means that the code will be released under GLP but the copyright remains with me, not you. But I think you guys know me, my intention is only to protect the real author, not to profit from the code. Profit from free software is not a shame. On the contrary, the client gets the program he asked for and as a bonus it's free software -- So the client gets better value for money. That's why I'm really sorry to hit your inovative bussiness model. I wish it would be feasible. No business model, I had not intended on making any money. Quite the opposite, I had intending on taking a risk with no financial incentive. ...The true author can remain anonymous if he wishes. Again, this isn't too practical these days (with BB anywhere). BB? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
Again, this isn't too practical these days (with BB anywhere). BB? Sorry, I did not have my 1984 hat on. Big brother. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
If anyone is worried about releasing code developed from information gleaned in the MS documentation, then I can contract the work, and I release it. Therefore it is me who would be sued. I am willing to be the scapegoat and take that chance. That means that the code will be released under GLP but the copyright remains with me, not you. But I think you guys know me, my intention is only to protect the real author, not to profit from the code. I will be nothing more than proxy, and I will not rerelease the code under any other license. The true author can remain anonymous if he wishes. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 10:40, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Sun, Feb 19, 2012, Dotan Cohen wrote about Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats: Undocumented? Which file format is that? All the .doc and .docx formats are documented, even the older binary formats. Where is the .doc format documented? I once wrote a tool to extract the text in MS Office files (for a search engine). It was a really annoying reverse-engineering-like trial-and-error process, and I could hardly find any documentation. The PowerPoint format (.ppt) was particularly odd. What documentation do you refer to? Here are the pre-2007 formats: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff381461.aspx And here are the current versions: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc313118.aspx -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 16:10, Shlomi Fish shlo...@shlomifish.org wrote: there's also this (with a link at the top): http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/02/19.html The licence may be problematic. Thanks, Shlomi, that is a great link. If anyone knows of an available internet-facing Windows Server instance where one might translate MS Office files to PDF, I would love to know about it. I would even join a pool of people to maintain such a server for a reasonable monthly cost. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 20:22, Oron Peled o...@actcom.co.il wrote: So either supporting a public documented ISO standard isn't harder than supporting many variants of proprietary and undocumented file file format, or... draw your own conclusion. Undocumented? Which file format is that? All the .doc and .docx formats are documented, even the older binary formats. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 14:56, Diego Iastrubni elc...@kde.org wrote: In MsOffice I created a test 1,2,3 document (in Hebrew, RTL), saved as ODT, and opened in LibreOffice. File loaded, directionality not working. That is likely an OpenOffice / LibreOffice bug: Writer saves text alignment of RTL paragraph not according to the ODF specification OOo: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=105270 LO: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37128 -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: PHP Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_FUNCTION, expecting T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM
2012/2/15 Michael Vasiliev mycr...@infoscav.net: So you're trying to convince me to substitute ignorance with arrogance in my opinion? OK, accepted. Zeev is an Israeli tech entrepreneur. Arrogance does seem very likely! -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
PHP Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_FUNCTION, expecting T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM
I already figured out what this error is, but imagine my surprise when I found that my error messages were localized! Especially when working on a server somewhere in Germany via SSH and there being absolutely no Hebrew or Israel configuration. What, did CentOS or PHP parse my login name, and recognise it as an Israeli name? If the o had been omitted from my last name would I have gotten the error message in Chinese? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
2012/2/5 Etzion Bar-Noy eza...@tournament.org.il: Because most households in israel do not buy their office... It would be stupid to assume they do. Moreover - the school headmaster does not assume that either. He/she knows most people just have their office installed, and they care nothing about it. Then the argument is that sending .docx files encourages piracy. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
2012/2/5 Boaz Rymland boaz.ryml...@gmail.com: I bet it cannot read my teacher's document!: a table full of oversized text, but mostly - toner/ink eating, useless, stupid^H^H^H^H^H images that never, and I mean never, really align in the needed cells but rather appear somewhere else in the document. That's true also on a recent M$ Word as well! :-) oh boy. I had to release some steam!... :-) If that file does not open well in Open Office, then send it to me and I will file bugs on it to get OOo / LO fixed. Note that the document will be made public. Thanks. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 11:23, geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: It depends. I can't speak to it directly, my Hebrew level is such that a crayon would be enough, but my son who is in high school was told by the school to use Microsoft Office for Windows because there were capabilities that he needed that Open Office (for Windows) did not provide for Hebrew. I asked him about it, and he assured me that was the case. Granted he is a special student in a special school, but I am sure he is not unique. Please let me know what these features are, so that we can file OOo / LO bugs on them. You can call me, though I do not claim to _speak_ English as well as I write it: 054-7881700 I do know from users on the various Macintosh groups that both Microsoft Office for the Mac (a stripped down version without good Hebrew support) and OpenOffice do not do a very good job of Hebrew formatting. Mac users have to buy niche packages which do, but they do not run on any other platform. Hebrew Open Office has some bugs, but nothing terrible. So does MS Office. I use OOo in Hebrew very often. Feel free to direct to me any OOo users that have trouble. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
2012/2/5 Boaz Rymland boaz.ryml...@gmail.com: of course the whole reason to this thread and me contacting the principal is the fsck'ed up document. The document appears badly in LibreOffice and Google docs (imported). Boaz, please send to me the document so that I can file OOo / LO bugs. Thanks. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
2012/2/5 Oleg Goldshmidt p...@goldshmidt.org: How about suggesting that such docs should be exported into HTML (which Word is capable of doing, IIRC) before emailing? It would be nice if the creator could look at the HTML in a browser to verify that it looks OK. of course, the browser is likely to be IE 32-bit... HTML is not a file format. What would become of the images and CSS files? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 15:52, Micha mi...@post.tau.ac.il wrote: I can't seem to change page numbering (i.e suppress page numbering on some pages) or change head/footer format. One thing that microsoft does ok (but messes up a whole lot of others in return). For this you need to define a custom header / footer for the page. Is this easier / more intuitive in MS Office? How is it done there? Neither can do proper math if their life depended on it, or make it cross platform (openoffice can't handle microsoft equations and vice versa). MS Office equations are not cross-platform. Actually, when importing MSO = 2007 into older MSO products, the equations are transformed into images and are no longer editable either. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 16:38, Meir Michanie me...@riunx.com wrote: Another issue is that at schools the kids are asked to use a site named 'ofek' which it doesn't run under linux and my kids are force to run windows in vmware,... Thanks, I just wrote to them. another site that kids have access for free if they login through ofek is brainpop. It's hard to explain to your kids to suffer their lack of access to those site for a noble purpose of using OSS. This is a perfect time to explain: 1) They cannot have everything they want 2) Life is unfair 3) Some people (the management of that site) are irresponsible and hurt others That is how my 5 and 3 year old daughters would hear it in this situation. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
2012/2/5 Mordechai Behar mordecha.be...@mail.huji.ac.il: Those are just developer tools, and even then, only a few institutions in Israel are accepted as viable places of study that will allow a student to download the software. A better system is the MSDAA (Microsoft Developers Academic Alliance) which allows a student who is registered for specific courses in specific institutions to download and use nearly every Microsoft application, including the actual operating system and office suite. However, to the best of my knowledge this is only available to compsci and computer engineering students at Hebrew University. In mechanical engineering at the Technion we had access to MSDAA, but Office was not included. Everything else, including Windows 7, was. The Teacher's Union allows a member to purchase heavily discounted software, I think MS Office 2010 goes for 100 NIS. I cannot find details about this. If you can, I would love to know. My wife is a therapist and gets some Department of Education benefits, such as a reduced interest loan at Mosad. I think that the length and speed of growth of this thread points to just how frustrated we all are at the current situation. So why don't we change it? We happen to have Hamakor, a registered nonprofit organization to promote the use of free and open source software in Israel. So why not start some kind of campaign? A public message? People are still riled up about the social protests of the past summer, we could ride that wave. I've been active for years, writing to websites and other entities. Instead of organising, we are better off being disparate in my opinion. If Ofek receives a letter per week requesting Firefox support, that is more convincing than a letter from some unknown organisation complaining about freedom. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 02:43, Oron Peled o...@actcom.co.il wrote: If not there are some free-as-in-beer plugins available for MS Office to support the OpenDocument formats. There was a Sun plugin, which was covered in the above interoperability paper, but: * It needed some registration to use (so I didn't test it) * I'm not sure if still exists after Oracle bought Sun. It now costs $99. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 16:38, Meir Michanie me...@riunx.com wrote: Another issue is that at schools the kids are asked to use a site named 'ofek' which it doesn't run under linux and my kids are force to run windows in vmware,... The tech support representative for Ofek says that the site will soon support Firefox. Check back in a few weeks, and if it doesn't work then write to them. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 12:55, geoffrey mendelson I see it differently. Not because I like it, or agree with it, but because I am a cynic and believe the Israeli mindset to be different. I see it that they will say that they have a limited budget and the cost of providing the service to Windows users is something they must do, but to pay the extra money for FOSS support is a losing bet, as they don't know if anyone uses it, and they can use Windows (and M/S products) instead. Presenting DOC/ PDF as Windows / FOSS is a false dichotomy. Presenting it DOC / PDF as works only on expensive or pirated software / works on all computers and mobile devices is the key. If they want to make their service more accessible, then they would spend what little money they have on iPod/iPhone/iPad apps and possibly Android ones. See above, PDF will support those devices already. With that in mind, I think that the place to lobby for increased FOSS accessibility is the ministry of Education who controls these things, while private schools are just not going to have the money. :-( -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Preparing to convince to shift to non-propriety documents formats
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 22:09, Michael Vasiliev mycr...@infoscav.net wrote: I, for one, use quite a lot of code long abandoned by it's authors. troll I knew that I'm not the last KDE 3 lover out there! /troll -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Israeli website on Linux: beer-sheva.muni.il
Thanks, all. On Kubuntu (Firefox and Chrome) cannot reach the site with www.* or without. I am certain that the Windows machine was not using a cache as I was able to register the kids for kindergarten. I note that the Linux machine is connecting with Bezeq Beinleumi and the Windows machine with Hot (neighbour's wifi, with permission). Those who can connect, which ISP (not infrastructure) are you using? Those who cannot connect, which ISP are you using? Thanks. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Israeli website on Linux: beer-sheva.muni.il
I still remember in the early days of the Web where people broke their teeth saying out loud URLs like http://www.google.com/; - heich tee tee pee colon slash slash double-you double-you double-you dot google dot com, whereas now people just say google dot com, or even just google (assuming the listener will just go to a search engine and enter that as a search word). Do you remember the first time that someone told you about heich tee tee pee colon slash slash double-you double-you double-you slash dot dot com? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Israeli website on Linux: beer-sheva.muni.il
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 10:17, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: Strange... For me: $ nslookup www.beer-sheva.muni.il Name: www.beer-sheva.muni.il Address: 147.236.237.102 $ curl -i http://www.beer-sheva.muni.il HTTP/1.1 302 Object moved Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 08:18:07 GMT Server: Microsoft-IIS/6.0 X-Powered-By: ASP.NET Location: /functions/gen/CheckCookies1.asp?RedirectTo=%2Fopenning%2Easp%3FLang%3D1 And then it follows a string of silly redirections, until I end up seeing http://www.beer-sheva.muni.il/openning.asp?Lang=1 You, Nadav, win an internet and a half. This is great, I will pass this URL around to the other parents tomorrow. Thank you! -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Israeli website on Linux: beer-sheva.muni.il
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 13:49, Matan Ziv-Av ma...@svgalib.org wrote: Perhaps someone installed a ten year old router on the way: http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/nanog/2001-04/msg00714.html Or you are seeing a different but similar issue. On Fedora 16 (with no specific network tweaking, as far as I recall), the site is accessible. Thanks, that is interesting and good to know. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Israeli website on Linux: beer-sheva.muni.il
Can anyone reach beer-sheva.muni.il on Linux? I tried in Chrome and in Firefox, I get a timeout as if the server is not running. When I try in Firefox on the wife's Windows7 laptop, the site comes right up. I have not tried to spoof a Windows UI string, but can anyone confirm that the site isn't responding to Linux browsers? Thanks. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Wikipedia mirror in Israel?
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 16:13, geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: Is there an Israeli mirror of the English version of the Wikipedia? Thanks in advance, Here is the official list of unauthorized mirrors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mirrors_and_forks The authorized mirrors will likely participate in the blackout, however the unauthorized mirrors are likely out of date. Pick your poison. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [OUT?] Help with Android?
2012/1/14 Shachar Shemesh shac...@shemesh.biz I can host it on lingnu, if anyone is interested. I don't think I like it to be English only, though. The original Android forums should be good enough for that. Developer oriented, yes. I am interested, but I also agree that Hebrew should be an accepted language. Anything that is not Israeli-specific but related to Android, there is already a community for (both for devs and users). The questions that I would expect on an Israeli list would be those unique to Israel / Hebrew / RTL languages. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: HTML Mail (was: Re: Which technology should I learn to do this?)
On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 09:15, Yedidyah Bar-David linux...@didi.bardavid.org wrote: Should I officially give up and declare text email as a thing of the past? Should I move to some graphical mail client that displays and composes html mail? I tried Thunderbird a few times, for a few days each, over the last 5 or so years, and always went back to mutt. I see on this list some people that still use mutt. I also have a feeling that some of the past users of mutt on this list moved to html mail clients. I do not intend to start a flame war. Feel free to ignore, give advice, share your struggles, etc... For my personal email I use Thunderbird with text email. Why do you want to give up on text email? HTML email is the problem, not text. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
