Re: how do you use the biometric id with a generic card reader with FF / chromium on linux ?

[sara fink]

Hi

The card you gave her is supposed to work.
GemPC Key SmartCard Readeris a gemalto card reader with the following
parameters (see the ink below):

http://files.atlanty.ru/?id=usb:08e6-3438
Device 'Gemalto (was Gemplus) GemPC Key SmartCard Reader'

*ID*

USB 08e6:3438

*Class*

0b-00-00

*Type*

chipcard » 

*Vendor*

Gemalto (was Gemplus) »


*Name*

GemPC Key SmartCard Reader

*Subsystem*

Gemplus


If you search for קורא ת.ז. ביומטרית

 you will get a bunch of links that say they work with windows, linux

see this link:

https://www.kobil.co.il/p/%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%90_%D7%AA%D7%A2%D7%95%D7%93%D7%AA_%D7%96%D7%94%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%91%D7%99%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%98%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%AA_%D7%9B%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%A1_%D7%97%D7%9B%D7%9D_%D7%95%D7%9B%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%A1%D7%99_%D7%A2%D7%95%D7%91%D7%93_Gemalto_IDBridge_CT30
https://pc2.co.il/product/%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%90-%D7%9B%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%97%D7%9B%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9C%D7%A7%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%90%D7%94-%D7%A9%D7%9C-%D7%9B%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%A1%D7%99-%D7%90%D7%A9/

They offer gemalto IDBridge CT30 which they claim it works with gov.il. Now
there are 2 secrets.
IDBridge CT30 has the same ID USB 08e6:3438 (as your card reader) when you
run lsusb.

The 2n secret, this card reader can be bought for 10nis from rav kav
offices.  I worked with this card reader for rav kav in a virtual machine
with windows.
According to gov.il
https://www.gov.il/he/pages/software_smartid  you have to install their exe
program.

So, one path to go is to install a virtual machine for her with windows and
use it.

Option 2 is to use a software from gemalto
https://supportportal.gemalto.com/csm?sys_id=80303b92db852e00d298728dae96198b=sp=csm_product=sn_customerservice_product_name

You have there a version for linux too. Maybe it will work, and you need a
bunch of packages. See this link.
https://github.com/OpenSC/OpenSC/wiki/Smart-card-readers-(Linux-and-Mac-OS-X)

As a testing environment  you can try first with rav kav based on these
programs.
I hope these links are a starter to help her out. Simple browser without
their exe file/gemalto software for linux won't work.
I don't have a biometric id and made a gov.il account and worked with them
quite well.
She already created an account with biometric id?




On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 11:46 AM  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to help to an elderly person which uses Debian stretch  to
> access the gov.il interface,  she has the biometric id card and I have a
> generic smart card reader (GemPC Key SmartCard Reader) that I wished to
> give her so she could auth to the system.  I don't have a biometric id , so
> I can't verify if we can even use the browser to access the web interface.
>
> Does anyone have a biometric id , and can check if they can login using FF
> / chromium or stuff like that ?
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
>
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Do up-to-date Nvidia drivers suppress output to DVI interface?

[Omer Zak]

My Linux desktop has two displays (DELL and Samsung), Nvidia GP107
(GeForce GTX 1050 Ti) with HDMI and DVI outputs.
The operating system is Linux Debian Bullseye (version 11.9).

Today I upgraded the Nvidia proprietary drivers
from version 550.54.15-1 to version 555.42.02-1 (several .deb packages)
and as a result, only the HDMI-connected display works now in X-Window.

When the computer boots, the text display is via the DVI screen, and
when X-Window works, the DVI screen displays nothing and information is
displayed on the HDMI-connected screen.

The output of 'xrandr | grep connect' is as follows:
DVI-D-0 connected primary 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x
axis y axis) 476mm x 267mm
HDMI-0 connected 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y
axis) 477mm x 268mm

I saw no obvious error messages in /var/log/Xorg.0.log
nvidia-smi does not display anything abnormal.
glxgears works on the screen connected via HDMI.

I tried few versions of /etc/X11/xorg.conf (/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ is
empty) including having no xorg.conf at all. All of them yield the same
results (only the HDMI-connected screen displays stuff).


Questions:
1. Does anyone know if Nvidia disabled, in version 555.42.*, their DVI
support or changed its configuration options?
2. What, if any, configuration options should I check?

Thanks,
--- Omer Zak


-- 
For the average human female, a cockroach is merely another name for a
walking turd.
My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with
which
I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

how do you use the biometric id with a generic card reader with FF / chromium on linux ?

[borissh1983]

Hi, 

I'm trying to help to an elderly person which uses Debian stretch  to access 
the gov.il interface,  she has the biometric id card and I have a generic smart 
card reader (GemPC Key SmartCard Reader) that I wished to give her so she could 
auth to the system.  I don't have a biometric id , so I can't verify if we can 
even use the browser to access the web interface. 

Does anyone have a biometric id , and can check if they can login using FF / 
chromium or stuff like that ? 
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

segfault virtual Linux console (was Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem)

[Shlomo Solomon]

Yes - I should have mentioned that you can also get a desktop (which I
didn't need, but nice to know it's available).

ALSO - even if you only use the console, you can also access a GUI file
manager in your browser. The instructions on how to activate it were
a bit cryptic, but once I figured it out, also quite nice. Makes it
really easy to save any files you've created - just need to remember
that files are created in the /root directory and not as a regular
user,so it took me a while to find my files :-)

BTW - According to the documentation, it seems that files you
create are deleted after exiting the system. But I connected to the
same machine 3 days later and my files were still there. I would not
depend on that, but interesting.

And assuming you are connecting from a Linux machine, you can just save
the relevant ssh command (for example as an alias) and connect in
seconds. 




On Thu, 23 May 2024 08:56:11 -0400
Steve Litt  wrote:

> Shlomo Solomon said on Mon, 20 May 2024 09:21:18 +0300
> 
> 
> >https://shell.segfault.net/#/login
> 
> Very, very nice! Not only a shell, but you can get a desktop system
> too. To be sure, it's throttled significantly, but if I ever find
> myself without a working Linux system, I can use this resource to get
> irssi or hexchat to get help rebuilding a Linux system, even from my
> wife's Windows machine. Great resource!
> 
> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt 
> 
> Autumn 2023 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il



-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 4.0.0 - KDE Plasma 5.24.7 - Kubuntu 22.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[Steve Litt]

Shlomo Solomon said on Mon, 20 May 2024 09:21:18 +0300


>https://shell.segfault.net/#/login

Very, very nice! Not only a shell, but you can get a desktop system
too. To be sure, it's throttled significantly, but if I ever find
myself without a working Linux system, I can use this resource to get
irssi or hexchat to get help rebuilding a Linux system, even from my
wife's Windows machine. Great resource!

SteveT

Steve Litt 

Autumn 2023 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[Steve Litt]

Shlomo Solomon said on Sun, 19 May 2024 21:46:14 +0300

>Thanks.
>I see your point, but in this case it does not help me for the
>following reasons: 
>1 - my purpose is to teach how to emmulate traceroute using Python and
>Scapy, so looking at the "real" traceroute code written in C is not
>really relevant.

Sure it's relevant. Regardless of language, you can compare a working
and non-working system, and exploit the differences algorithm wise, not
language wise.

SteveT

Steve Litt 

Autumn 2023 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[Shlomo Solomon]

This was not meant to be a debate about software development, so let me
end this thread by:
1 - thanking all
2 - saying that aside from one "small" point, I agree with all Guy wrote
in his last post about security, curriculum, develpment, etc -
especially about "software developers that insist on not solving their
customer's needs"

The one small point is about "the practice of blocking ICMP traffic" in
the context of my original question. 
I certainly know that this is often the case and as part of the
assignment, the student must deal with hops (routers) that do not
respond along the way. 
But this is NOT what my ISP is doing since his servers DO respond to
ICMP messages. Somehow (I still don't know how or why) they are
blocking successful ICMP responses from other routers along the way but
NOT blocking ICMP error messages. Again, I am not blaming the ISP
(middle man) since there may be a reason for this - just saying that it
seems strange, especially since in the last few day, my
**non-conclusive** experiments have found no other ISPs who do this.




On Mon, 20 May 2024 22:57:26 +0300
guy keren  wrote:

> 
> 
> On 5/20/24 09:25, Shlomo Solomon wrote:
> > On Sun, 19 May 2024 23:17:13 +0300
> > guy keren  wrote:
> > 
> >>
> >> the fact that traceroute works in this case while your python code
> >> doesn't work in this case, suggests there is some at least one
> >> scenario that your code doesn't handle, even though it could.
> > 
> > Thank you again.
> > I agree, but see the rest of my reply below
> 
> ...
> 
> >>
> >> your refusal to look at the code of traceroute, and instead
> >> insisting of "blaming the middle-man" and fixing the problem at
> >> their side, strikes me as a bad example for your students. as a
> >> developer, i will first try to verify i didn't miss some scenario
> >> or use-case, before trying to pass the blame.
> > 
> > I asked for help and REALLY appreciate all the answers I got, but
> > maybe I was not clear enough so let me explain why your answer is
> > CORRECT, but in this case NOT helpful.
> > 
> > 1 - As a teacher, I must follow the curriculum and in this case I am
> > teaching Python and Scapy and specifically ICMP, so looking at the
> > code of traceroute which is completely different does not help.
> > 2 - I did not intend to blame the middle-man. I just wrote that the
> > code has worked for several years that I have been teaching and also
> > works when connecting via a different ISP (at school or a cell phone
> > hotspot). So the "logical" conclusion is that my ISP is blocking
> > something that was not blocked before and is not blocked by other
> > ISPs. 3 - As I wrote a few minute ago, I found a virtual cloud
> > solution and this ALSO runs my code without any problem, so more
> > evidence that my ISP is blocking something that is usually not
> > blocked.
> 
> 
> i don't think you have a way to know what is "the usual" today, and
> what is not. as far as i know, the practice of blocking ICMP traffic
> for security purposes (as a means of avoiding some variants of DDOS 
> attackes) by ISPs, is not that rare in the world. until today - you
> were simply lucky.
> 
> > 4 - I always make it clear to my students that the code they are
> > writing is not a replacement for traceroute - only a learning
> > excercise.
> 
> so here you are, having a chance to teach your students a really 
> important lesson about what makes a software product robust, that 
> conventions in the world change every few years, and that they have a 
> way of writing this code that'll be actually working - and you want
> to throw the opportunity away "because of the curriculum" - and
> instead indirectly teach your students that "the mechanism is
> important, not achieving the requirements of the software".
> 
> > 
> > 
> >>
> >> for the sake of your students, please re-consider this approach...
> > 
> > For the above reasons, I cannot change anything, but I do agree that
> > some students could potentially draw incorrect conclusions, so in my
> > next lesso, I will again explain that this was a learning exercise
> > about ICMP and not intened to be a fully working
> > solution/replacement for traceroute.
> 
> in your next lesson, you should open up the entire story, and tell
> them that when they will become real software developers in the
> future, they should learn it as a lesson about the importance of
> requirements over design choices. you have a chance to broaden their
> minds or to bog them down with procedures and curriculum. please
> don't chose the easy path - that way lie software developers that
> insist on not solving their customer's needs..
> 
> --guy
> 
> 



-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 4.0.0 - KDE Plasma 5.24.7 - Kubuntu 22.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[guy keren]

On 5/20/24 09:25, Shlomo Solomon wrote:

On Sun, 19 May 2024 23:17:13 +0300
guy keren  wrote:



the fact that traceroute works in this case while your python code
doesn't work in this case, suggests there is some at least one
scenario that your code doesn't handle, even though it could.


Thank you again.
I agree, but see the rest of my reply below


...



your refusal to look at the code of traceroute, and instead insisting
of "blaming the middle-man" and fixing the problem at their side,
strikes me as a bad example for your students. as a developer, i will
first try to verify i didn't miss some scenario or use-case, before
trying to pass the blame.


I asked for help and REALLY appreciate all the answers I got, but maybe
I was not clear enough so let me explain why your answer is CORRECT,
but in this case NOT helpful.

1 - As a teacher, I must follow the curriculum and in this case I am
teaching Python and Scapy and specifically ICMP, so looking at the code
of traceroute which is completely different does not help.
2 - I did not intend to blame the middle-man. I just wrote that the
code has worked for several years that I have been teaching and also
works when connecting via a different ISP (at school or a cell phone
hotspot). So the "logical" conclusion is that my ISP is blocking
something that was not blocked before and is not blocked by other ISPs.
3 - As I wrote a few minute ago, I found a virtual cloud solution and
this ALSO runs my code without any problem, so more evidence that my
ISP is blocking something that is usually not blocked.



i don't think you have a way to know what is "the usual" today, and what 
is not. as far as i know, the practice of blocking ICMP traffic for 
security purposes (as a means of avoiding some variants of DDOS 
attackes) by ISPs, is not that rare in the world. until today - you were 
simply lucky.



4 - I always make it clear to my students that the code they are
writing is not a replacement for traceroute - only a learning excercise.


so here you are, having a chance to teach your students a really 
important lesson about what makes a software product robust, that 
conventions in the world change every few years, and that they have a 
way of writing this code that'll be actually working - and you want to 
throw the opportunity away "because of the curriculum" - and instead 
indirectly teach your students that "the mechanism is important, not 
achieving the requirements of the software".







for the sake of your students, please re-consider this approach...


For the above reasons, I cannot change anything, but I do agree that
some students could potentially draw incorrect conclusions, so in my
next lesso, I will again explain that this was a learning exercise
about ICMP and not intened to be a fully working solution/replacement
for traceroute.


in your next lesson, you should open up the entire story, and tell them 
that when they will become real software developers in the future, they 
should learn it as a lesson about the importance of requirements over 
design choices. you have a chance to broaden their minds or to bog them 
down with procedures and curriculum. please don't chose the easy path - 
that way lie software developers that insist on not solving their 
customer's needs..


--guy

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[Shlomo Solomon]

On Mon, 20 May 2024 11:24:19 +0300
shimi  wrote:


> should have asked: "I don't want to use my ISP, can you recommend a
> shell provider that does not block traceroute?"
> 
> -- Shimi

Thanks again.

Good point, except that when I started the thread, that option did not
even occur to me - especially since I already knew that with a
different ISP (at school or my cell phone hotspot) the code did work.


-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 4.0.0 - KDE Plasma 5.24.7 - Kubuntu 22.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[shimi]

On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 9:26 AM Shlomo Solomon 
wrote:

> Thanks again.
>
> As I wrote earlier in reply to Guy Keren, I know that the Python/Scapy
> code to emulate traceroute does NOT work like the real traceroute, but
> that is the assignment I give to my students based on the curriculum,
> so comparing this code to the real traceroute does not really help in
> this case.
>
>
My point was that it DOES help, IF you use traceroute with -I or --icmp or
use tracert in Windows, which IIRC also uses ICMP for probing like you do.

It helps in the sense that you should experience the same thing, so you
know it's not your code that does something wrong, and does work like what
you call "the real traceroute", if you only use the right parameter... then
it can serve as a reference for correctness.

But, IMHO, if what you REALLY wanted is not to understand why there's a
difference, then the thread should have been much shorter, and should have
asked: "I don't want to use my ISP, can you recommend a shell provider that
does not block traceroute?"

-- Shimi
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[Shlomo Solomon]

Thanks again.

As I wrote earlier in reply to Guy Keren, I know that the Python/Scapy
code to emulate traceroute does NOT work like the real traceroute, but
that is the assignment I give to my students based on the curriculum,
so comparing this code to the real traceroute does not really help in
this case.


On Mon, 20 May 2024 01:03:33 +0300
shimi  wrote:

> On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 5:43 PM Shlomo Solomon
>  wrote:
> 
> > I teach computer networking and the latest assignment I gave my
> > students was to use Python and Scapy to emmulate traceroute. The
> > code is simple:
> >  - send an ICMP packet with TTL = 1 which will fail but return the
> > first hop address
> >  - continue sending ICMP packets - each time increasing the TTL to
> > get the next hop
> >  - if the ICMP reply is NOT an error, we have arrived.
> >
> >
> That's not what traceroute does, at least not the one that ships with
> my Linux:
> 
> # traceroute --version
> Modern traceroute for Linux, version 2.1.5
> Copyright (c) 2016  Dmitry Butskoy,   License: GPL v2 or any later
> 
> My Traceroute sends _UDP_ packets to the target to random ports
> (unless -p is used), not ICMP. That can easily be seen by running
> 'tcpdump -ni any host ' before running Traceroute. Or by
> reading 'man traceroute'.
> 
> My Traceroute also supports sending ICMP packets (with -I or --icmp)
> which, to my understanding, is what your Python script does (based on
> your own words).
> 
> And it also supports sending TCP probes, (with -T or --tcp)
> 
> Do not confuse the probing packets (the packet with the
> ever-increasing TTL value) with the ICMP Echo (a.k.a. "ping") done
> later to measure roundtrip - they serve two different purposes - one
> to find the route (by causing the targets on the path to return an
> ICMP error that the TTL has expired), and the other to find the
> latency to each router on the path (as returned in the ICMP error).
> 
> Any router/firewall on the path may choose to behave differently to
> packets with expiring TTLs based on protocol, port number, etc.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> -- Shimi



-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 4.0.0 - KDE Plasma 5.24.7 - Kubuntu 22.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[Shlomo Solomon]

On Sun, 19 May 2024 23:17:13 +0300
guy keren  wrote:

> 
> the fact that traceroute works in this case while your python code 
> doesn't work in this case, suggests there is some at least one
> scenario that your code doesn't handle, even though it could.

Thank you again.
I agree, but see the rest of my reply below


> 
> your refusal to look at the code of traceroute, and instead insisting
> of "blaming the middle-man" and fixing the problem at their side,
> strikes me as a bad example for your students. as a developer, i will
> first try to verify i didn't miss some scenario or use-case, before
> trying to pass the blame.

I asked for help and REALLY appreciate all the answers I got, but maybe
I was not clear enough so let me explain why your answer is CORRECT,
but in this case NOT helpful.

1 - As a teacher, I must follow the curriculum and in this case I am
teaching Python and Scapy and specifically ICMP, so looking at the code
of traceroute which is completely different does not help.
2 - I did not intend to blame the middle-man. I just wrote that the
code has worked for several years that I have been teaching and also
works when connecting via a different ISP (at school or a cell phone
hotspot). So the "logical" conclusion is that my ISP is blocking
something that was not blocked before and is not blocked by other ISPs.
3 - As I wrote a few minute ago, I found a virtual cloud solution and
this ALSO runs my code without any problem, so more evidence that my
ISP is blocking something that is usually not blocked.
4 - I always make it clear to my students that the code they are
writing is not a replacement for traceroute - only a learning excercise.


> 
> for the sake of your students, please re-consider this approach...

For the above reasons, I cannot change anything, but I do agree that
some students could potentially draw incorrect conclusions, so in my
next lesso, I will again explain that this was a learning exercise
about ICMP and not intened to be a fully working solution/replacement
for traceroute.




> 
> --guy
> 
> On 5/19/24 21:46, Shlomo Solomon wrote:
> > Thanks.
> > I see your point, but in this case it does not help me for the
> > following reasons:
> > 1 - my purpose is to teach how to emmulate traceroute using Python
> > and Scapy, so looking at the "real" traceroute code written in C is
> > not really relevant.
> > 2 - The fact that Python code that worked until recently stopped
> > working means that the problem is NOT the code (which has not
> > changed). 3 - The fact that the code works at school and when using
> > a cellphone Hotspot (Golan Telecom) but NOT when connected to my
> > "regular" ISP (019) means that the ISP is probably blocking
> > something.
> > 
> > My problem is that I don't know how to explain this to the ISP
> > support people or ask them to stop blocking whatever they are
> > blocking. They will certainly not understand.
> > The "standard" help remedies are boot the computer or reset the
> > router to default factory settings or some other nonsense. And I
> > don't even want to think about the fact that the first thing they
> > will say is that I should change something in the Windows control
> > panel settings - telling them I'm using Linux is an exercise in
> > futility.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Sun, 19 May 2024 20:35:36 +0300
> > guy keren  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>> BTW - ping and the "real" traceroute work fine.
> >>> I also looked at router settings, but did not find anything
> >>> suspicious.
> >>
> >> there is your clue - read the source code of traceroute, and see
> >> what it is doing differently.
> >>
> >> --guy
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> >> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 



-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 4.0.0 - KDE Plasma 5.24.7 - Kubuntu 22.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[Shlomo Solomon]

Replying to my own post :-)

As I wrote earlier, I do not want to go to the time and expense of
using a cloud server. That would really be over-kill in this case. But I
discovered a great free service that offers a Linux bash prompt in the
cloud with no need to setup anything. For anyone who is interested:

https://shell.segfault.net/#/login

All I did was:
  nano tmp1.py
  pasted my python code and saved
  python tmp1.py www.google.com

Code ran exactly as expected



On Sun, 19 May 2024 18:08:32 +0300
Shlomo Solomon  wrote:

> 
> I don't want to go to the time and expense of using a cloud server. I
> want this to work at home as it has worked for many years :-)








-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 4.0.0 - KDE Plasma 5.24.7 - Kubuntu 22.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[shimi]

On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 5:43 PM Shlomo Solomon 
wrote:

> I teach computer networking and the latest assignment I gave my
> students was to use Python and Scapy to emmulate traceroute. The code
> is simple:
>  - send an ICMP packet with TTL = 1 which will fail but return the
> first hop address
>  - continue sending ICMP packets - each time increasing the TTL to get
> the next hop
>  - if the ICMP reply is NOT an error, we have arrived.
>
>
That's not what traceroute does, at least not the one that ships with my
Linux:

# traceroute --version
Modern traceroute for Linux, version 2.1.5
Copyright (c) 2016  Dmitry Butskoy,   License: GPL v2 or any later

My Traceroute sends _UDP_ packets to the target to random ports (unless -p
is used), not ICMP. That can easily be seen by running 'tcpdump -ni any
host ' before running Traceroute. Or by reading 'man traceroute'.

My Traceroute also supports sending ICMP packets (with -I or --icmp) which,
to my understanding, is what your Python script does (based on your own
words).

And it also supports sending TCP probes, (with -T or --tcp)

Do not confuse the probing packets (the packet with the ever-increasing TTL
value) with the ICMP Echo (a.k.a. "ping") done later to measure roundtrip -
they serve two different purposes - one to find the route (by causing the
targets on the path to return an ICMP error that the TTL has expired), and
the other to find the latency to each router on the path (as returned in
the ICMP error).

Any router/firewall on the path may choose to behave differently to packets
with expiring TTLs based on protocol, port number, etc.

Hope this helps,

-- Shimi
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[guy keren]

the fact that traceroute works in this case while your python code 
doesn't work in this case, suggests there is some at least one scenario 
that your code doesn't handle, even though it could.


your refusal to look at the code of traceroute, and instead insisting of 
"blaming the middle-man" and fixing the problem at their side, strikes 
me as a bad example for your students. as a developer, i will first try 
to verify i didn't miss some scenario or use-case, before trying to pass 
the blame.


for the sake of your students, please re-consider this approach...

--guy

On 5/19/24 21:46, Shlomo Solomon wrote:

Thanks.
I see your point, but in this case it does not help me for the
following reasons:
1 - my purpose is to teach how to emmulate traceroute using Python and
Scapy, so looking at the "real" traceroute code written in C is not
really relevant.
2 - The fact that Python code that worked until recently stopped
working means that the problem is NOT the code (which has not changed).
3 - The fact that the code works at school and when using a cellphone
Hotspot (Golan Telecom) but NOT when connected to my "regular" ISP (019)
means that the ISP is probably blocking something.

My problem is that I don't know how to explain this to the ISP support
people or ask them to stop blocking whatever they are blocking. They
will certainly not understand.
The "standard" help remedies are boot the computer or reset the router
to default factory settings or some other nonsense. And I don't even
want to think about the fact that the first thing they will say is that
I should change something in the Windows control panel settings -
telling them I'm using Linux is an exercise in futility.





On Sun, 19 May 2024 20:35:36 +0300
guy keren  wrote:



BTW - ping and the "real" traceroute work fine.
I also looked at router settings, but did not find anything
suspicious.


there is your clue - read the source code of traceroute, and see what
it is doing differently.

--guy

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il






___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[Shlomo Solomon]

Thanks.
I see your point, but in this case it does not help me for the
following reasons: 
1 - my purpose is to teach how to emmulate traceroute using Python and
Scapy, so looking at the "real" traceroute code written in C is not
really relevant.
2 - The fact that Python code that worked until recently stopped
working means that the problem is NOT the code (which has not changed).
3 - The fact that the code works at school and when using a cellphone
Hotspot (Golan Telecom) but NOT when connected to my "regular" ISP (019)
means that the ISP is probably blocking something.

My problem is that I don't know how to explain this to the ISP support
people or ask them to stop blocking whatever they are blocking. They
will certainly not understand.
The "standard" help remedies are boot the computer or reset the router
to default factory settings or some other nonsense. And I don't even
want to think about the fact that the first thing they will say is that
I should change something in the Windows control panel settings -
telling them I'm using Linux is an exercise in futility.





On Sun, 19 May 2024 20:35:36 +0300
guy keren  wrote:


> > BTW - ping and the "real" traceroute work fine.
> > I also looked at router settings, but did not find anything
> > suspicious.
> 
> there is your clue - read the source code of traceroute, and see what
> it is doing differently.
> 
> --guy
> 
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il



-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 4.0.0 - KDE Plasma 5.24.7 - Kubuntu 22.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[guy keren]

On 5/19/24 17:42, Shlomo Solomon wrote:

I teach computer networking and the latest assignment I gave my
students was to use Python and Scapy to emmulate traceroute. The code
is simple:
  - send an ICMP packet with TTL = 1 which will fail but return the
first hop address
  - continue sending ICMP packets - each time increasing the TTL to get
the next hop
  - if the ICMP reply is NOT an error, we have arrived.

None of my student submissions worked, which was strange, so I tried my
own code which I know is correct.
It also did not work.
The error messages arrive for each hop, but it seems that the NO ERROR
message (when the destination is reached) is not arriving.
I also checked with Wireshark and see error replies (as I should) for each
hop, but then (when I assume I have reached the destination) there is
no reply.

I then tried disconnecting my computer from my ISP and connected via a
Hotspot on my phone - PROBLEM SOLVED.

So this seems to be a problem with my ISP (019) blocking some traffic.
But I don't know what the next step is.
If I call customer service, I'm sure no-one will understand what I want.

BTW - ping and the "real" traceroute work fine.
I also looked at router settings, but did not find anything suspicious.


there is your clue - read the source code of traceroute, and see what it 
is doing differently.


--guy

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[Shlomo Solomon]

That is certainly a possibility, but since the packets and the replies
are between me and various routers on the way to the destination (and
not directed at 019), I don't see the point.
As I mentioned, only the final reply (from the destination) does not
arrive - error replies from all the router on the way DO arrive.



On Sun, 19 May 2024 18:40:59 +0300
אורי  wrote:

> 019 might have disabled it for the same reason (security/DDOS)
> אורי
> u...@speedy.net
> 
> 
> On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 6:08 PM Shlomo Solomon
>  wrote:
> 
> > Thanks.
> >
> > 1 - I will send it dirr=ectly to you - not to the list.
> >
> > 2 - No - that is not the problem since it works when I connect via a
> > hotspot (i.e. a different ISP).
> >
> > When I use my "regular" 019 connection, I get:
> > sudo python tmp1.py www.google.com
> > 1 10.0.0.138 0.047
> > 2 10.64.0.250 0.038
> > 3 10.64.0.81 0.04
> > 4 Timed Out
> > 5 213.137.64.169 0.03
> > 6 212.199.247.29 0.036
> > 7 142.250.169.119 0.04
> > 8 142.250.169.118 0.034
> > 9 216.239.50.169 0.036
> > 10 72.14.236.1 0.034
> > 11 Timed Out
> > 12 Timed Out
> > 13 Timed Out
> > 14 Timed Out
> > 15 Timed Out
> > 16 Timed Out
> > 17 Timed Out
> > 18 Timed Out
> > 19 Timed Out
> > 20 Timed Out
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > When I connect via Hotspot (Golan), I get:
> > sudo python tmp1.py www.google.com
> > 1 192.168.43.85 0.054
> > 2 Timed Out
> > 3 172.25.86.33 0.136
> > 4 172.25.50.130 0.042
> > 5 172.27.27.2 0.062
> > 6 172.27.27.6 0.058
> > 7 207.232.57.110 0.062
> > 8 207.232.57.183 0.06
> > 9 72.14.197.132 0.038
> > 10 142.251.229.3 0.086
> > 11 72.14.236.1 0.058
> > trace complete 12 172.217.22.100 0.056
> >
> > As you can see 72.14.236.1 is the last hop before reaching the
> > destination, but on 019 all hops after that time out
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 19 May 2024 17:49:32 +0300
> > אורי  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Shlomo,
> > >
> > > 1. Send me the code and I will try to test it.
> > > 2. Are you sure there is a reply when your message reaches the
> > > destination? And does it depend on the destination? Some
> > > destinations may disable it for security reasons (DDOS attacks).
> > >
> > > Uri.
> > > אורי
> > > u...@speedy.net
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 5:43 PM Shlomo Solomon
> > >  wrote:
> > >
> > > > I teach computer networking and the latest assignment I gave my
> > > > students was to use Python and Scapy to emmulate traceroute. The
> > > > code is simple:
> > > >  - send an ICMP packet with TTL = 1 which will fail but return
> > > > the first hop address
> > > >  - continue sending ICMP packets - each time increasing the TTL
> > > > to get the next hop
> > > >  - if the ICMP reply is NOT an error, we have arrived.
> > > >
> > > > None of my student submissions worked, which was strange, so I
> > > > tried my own code which I know is correct.
> > > > It also did not work.
> > > > The error messages arrive for each hop, but it seems that the NO
> > > > ERROR message (when the destination is reached) is not arriving.
> > > > I also checked with Wireshark and see error replies (as I
> > > > should) for each hop, but then (when I assume I have reached the
> > > > destination) there is no reply.
> > > >
> > > > I then tried disconnecting my computer from my ISP and connected
> > > > via a Hotspot on my phone - PROBLEM SOLVED.
> > > >
> > > > So this seems to be a problem with my ISP (019) blocking some
> > > > traffic. But I don't know what the next step is.
> > > > If I call customer service, I'm sure no-one will understand
> > > > what I want.
> > > >
> > > > BTW - ping and the "real" traceroute work fine.
> > > > I also looked at router settings, but did not find anything
> > > > suspicious.
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone suggest how to explain my problem to my ISP?
> > > >
> > > > ALSO - if there is anyone using 019, I would be happy to send my
> > > > code for testing to verify that this is really a problem with
> > > > 019.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Shlomo Solomon
> > > > http://the-solomons.net
> > > > Claws Mail 4.0.0 - KDE Plasma 5.24.7 - Kubuntu 22.04
> > > > ___
> > > > Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> > > > To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Shlomo Solomon
> > http://the-solomons.net
> > Claws Mail 4.0.0 - KDE Plasma 5.24.7 - Kubuntu 22.04
> >



-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 4.0.0 - KDE Plasma 5.24.7 - Kubuntu 22.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[אורי]

019 might have disabled it for the same reason (security/DDOS)
אורי
u...@speedy.net


On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 6:08 PM Shlomo Solomon 
wrote:

> Thanks.
>
> 1 - I will send it dirr=ectly to you - not to the list.
>
> 2 - No - that is not the problem since it works when I connect via a
> hotspot (i.e. a different ISP).
>
> When I use my "regular" 019 connection, I get:
> sudo python tmp1.py www.google.com
> 1 10.0.0.138 0.047
> 2 10.64.0.250 0.038
> 3 10.64.0.81 0.04
> 4 Timed Out
> 5 213.137.64.169 0.03
> 6 212.199.247.29 0.036
> 7 142.250.169.119 0.04
> 8 142.250.169.118 0.034
> 9 216.239.50.169 0.036
> 10 72.14.236.1 0.034
> 11 Timed Out
> 12 Timed Out
> 13 Timed Out
> 14 Timed Out
> 15 Timed Out
> 16 Timed Out
> 17 Timed Out
> 18 Timed Out
> 19 Timed Out
> 20 Timed Out
>
>
>
>
> When I connect via Hotspot (Golan), I get:
> sudo python tmp1.py www.google.com
> 1 192.168.43.85 0.054
> 2 Timed Out
> 3 172.25.86.33 0.136
> 4 172.25.50.130 0.042
> 5 172.27.27.2 0.062
> 6 172.27.27.6 0.058
> 7 207.232.57.110 0.062
> 8 207.232.57.183 0.06
> 9 72.14.197.132 0.038
> 10 142.251.229.3 0.086
> 11 72.14.236.1 0.058
> trace complete 12 172.217.22.100 0.056
>
> As you can see 72.14.236.1 is the last hop before reaching the
> destination, but on 019 all hops after that time out
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, 19 May 2024 17:49:32 +0300
> אורי  wrote:
>
> > Hi Shlomo,
> >
> > 1. Send me the code and I will try to test it.
> > 2. Are you sure there is a reply when your message reaches the
> > destination? And does it depend on the destination? Some destinations
> > may disable it for security reasons (DDOS attacks).
> >
> > Uri.
> > אורי
> > u...@speedy.net
> >
> >
> > On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 5:43 PM Shlomo Solomon
> >  wrote:
> >
> > > I teach computer networking and the latest assignment I gave my
> > > students was to use Python and Scapy to emmulate traceroute. The
> > > code is simple:
> > >  - send an ICMP packet with TTL = 1 which will fail but return the
> > > first hop address
> > >  - continue sending ICMP packets - each time increasing the TTL to
> > > get the next hop
> > >  - if the ICMP reply is NOT an error, we have arrived.
> > >
> > > None of my student submissions worked, which was strange, so I
> > > tried my own code which I know is correct.
> > > It also did not work.
> > > The error messages arrive for each hop, but it seems that the NO
> > > ERROR message (when the destination is reached) is not arriving.
> > > I also checked with Wireshark and see error replies (as I should)
> > > for each hop, but then (when I assume I have reached the
> > > destination) there is no reply.
> > >
> > > I then tried disconnecting my computer from my ISP and connected
> > > via a Hotspot on my phone - PROBLEM SOLVED.
> > >
> > > So this seems to be a problem with my ISP (019) blocking some
> > > traffic. But I don't know what the next step is.
> > > If I call customer service, I'm sure no-one will understand what I
> > > want.
> > >
> > > BTW - ping and the "real" traceroute work fine.
> > > I also looked at router settings, but did not find anything
> > > suspicious.
> > >
> > > Can anyone suggest how to explain my problem to my ISP?
> > >
> > > ALSO - if there is anyone using 019, I would be happy to send my
> > > code for testing to verify that this is really a problem with 019.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Shlomo Solomon
> > > http://the-solomons.net
> > > Claws Mail 4.0.0 - KDE Plasma 5.24.7 - Kubuntu 22.04
> > > ___
> > > Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
> > >
>
>
>
> --
> Shlomo Solomon
> http://the-solomons.net
> Claws Mail 4.0.0 - KDE Plasma 5.24.7 - Kubuntu 22.04
>
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[Shlomo Solomon]

Thanks.

1 - I will send it dirr=ectly to you - not to the list.

2 - No - that is not the problem since it works when I connect via a
hotspot (i.e. a different ISP).

When I use my "regular" 019 connection, I get:
sudo python tmp1.py www.google.com
1 10.0.0.138 0.047
2 10.64.0.250 0.038
3 10.64.0.81 0.04
4 Timed Out
5 213.137.64.169 0.03
6 212.199.247.29 0.036
7 142.250.169.119 0.04
8 142.250.169.118 0.034
9 216.239.50.169 0.036
10 72.14.236.1 0.034
11 Timed Out
12 Timed Out
13 Timed Out
14 Timed Out
15 Timed Out
16 Timed Out
17 Timed Out
18 Timed Out
19 Timed Out
20 Timed Out




When I connect via Hotspot (Golan), I get:
sudo python tmp1.py www.google.com
1 192.168.43.85 0.054
2 Timed Out
3 172.25.86.33 0.136
4 172.25.50.130 0.042
5 172.27.27.2 0.062
6 172.27.27.6 0.058
7 207.232.57.110 0.062
8 207.232.57.183 0.06
9 72.14.197.132 0.038
10 142.251.229.3 0.086
11 72.14.236.1 0.058
trace complete 12 172.217.22.100 0.056

As you can see 72.14.236.1 is the last hop before reaching the
destination, but on 019 all hops after that time out







On Sun, 19 May 2024 17:49:32 +0300
אורי  wrote:

> Hi Shlomo,
> 
> 1. Send me the code and I will try to test it.
> 2. Are you sure there is a reply when your message reaches the
> destination? And does it depend on the destination? Some destinations
> may disable it for security reasons (DDOS attacks).
> 
> Uri.
> אורי
> u...@speedy.net
> 
> 
> On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 5:43 PM Shlomo Solomon
>  wrote:
> 
> > I teach computer networking and the latest assignment I gave my
> > students was to use Python and Scapy to emmulate traceroute. The
> > code is simple:
> >  - send an ICMP packet with TTL = 1 which will fail but return the
> > first hop address
> >  - continue sending ICMP packets - each time increasing the TTL to
> > get the next hop
> >  - if the ICMP reply is NOT an error, we have arrived.
> >
> > None of my student submissions worked, which was strange, so I
> > tried my own code which I know is correct.
> > It also did not work.
> > The error messages arrive for each hop, but it seems that the NO
> > ERROR message (when the destination is reached) is not arriving.
> > I also checked with Wireshark and see error replies (as I should)
> > for each hop, but then (when I assume I have reached the
> > destination) there is no reply.
> >
> > I then tried disconnecting my computer from my ISP and connected
> > via a Hotspot on my phone - PROBLEM SOLVED.
> >
> > So this seems to be a problem with my ISP (019) blocking some
> > traffic. But I don't know what the next step is.
> > If I call customer service, I'm sure no-one will understand what I
> > want.
> >
> > BTW - ping and the "real" traceroute work fine.
> > I also looked at router settings, but did not find anything
> > suspicious.
> >
> > Can anyone suggest how to explain my problem to my ISP?
> >
> > ALSO - if there is anyone using 019, I would be happy to send my
> > code for testing to verify that this is really a problem with 019.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Shlomo Solomon
> > http://the-solomons.net
> > Claws Mail 4.0.0 - KDE Plasma 5.24.7 - Kubuntu 22.04
> > ___
> > Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> > To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
> >



-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 4.0.0 - KDE Plasma 5.24.7 - Kubuntu 22.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[Shlomo Solomon]

Thanks.

Forgot to mention that I DID try the code at school and it works - high
school - not university :-)

I don't want to go to the time and expense of using a cloud server. I
want this to work at home as it has worked for many years :-)



On Sun, 19 May 2024 17:49:06 +0300
Shay Gover  wrote:

> Maybe use a vm on some random cloud service?
> Or better yet, use a university computer.
> 
> On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 5:43 PM Shlomo Solomon
>  wrote:
> 
> > I teach computer networking and the latest assignment I gave my
> > students was to use Python and Scapy to emmulate traceroute. The
> > code is simple:
> >  - send an ICMP packet with TTL = 1 which will fail but return the
> > first hop address
> >  - continue sending ICMP packets - each time increasing the TTL to
> > get the next hop
> >  - if the ICMP reply is NOT an error, we have arrived.
> >
> > None of my student submissions worked, which was strange, so I
> > tried my own code which I know is correct.
> > It also did not work.
> > The error messages arrive for each hop, but it seems that the NO
> > ERROR message (when the destination is reached) is not arriving.
> > I also checked with Wireshark and see error replies (as I should)
> > for each hop, but then (when I assume I have reached the
> > destination) there is no reply.
> >
> > I then tried disconnecting my computer from my ISP and connected
> > via a Hotspot on my phone - PROBLEM SOLVED.
> >
> > So this seems to be a problem with my ISP (019) blocking some
> > traffic. But I don't know what the next step is.
> > If I call customer service, I'm sure no-one will understand what I
> > want.
> >
> > BTW - ping and the "real" traceroute work fine.
> > I also looked at router settings, but did not find anything
> > suspicious.
> >
> > Can anyone suggest how to explain my problem to my ISP?
> >
> > ALSO - if there is anyone using 019, I would be happy to send my
> > code for testing to verify that this is really a problem with 019.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Shlomo Solomon
> > http://the-solomons.net
> > Claws Mail 4.0.0 - KDE Plasma 5.24.7 - Kubuntu 22.04
> > ___
> > Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> > To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
> >



-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 4.0.0 - KDE Plasma 5.24.7 - Kubuntu 22.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[אורי]

Hi Shlomo,

1. Send me the code and I will try to test it.
2. Are you sure there is a reply when your message reaches the destination?
And does it depend on the destination? Some destinations may disable it for
security reasons (DDOS attacks).

Uri.
אורי
u...@speedy.net


On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 5:43 PM Shlomo Solomon 
wrote:

> I teach computer networking and the latest assignment I gave my
> students was to use Python and Scapy to emmulate traceroute. The code
> is simple:
>  - send an ICMP packet with TTL = 1 which will fail but return the
> first hop address
>  - continue sending ICMP packets - each time increasing the TTL to get
> the next hop
>  - if the ICMP reply is NOT an error, we have arrived.
>
> None of my student submissions worked, which was strange, so I tried my
> own code which I know is correct.
> It also did not work.
> The error messages arrive for each hop, but it seems that the NO ERROR
> message (when the destination is reached) is not arriving.
> I also checked with Wireshark and see error replies (as I should) for each
> hop, but then (when I assume I have reached the destination) there is
> no reply.
>
> I then tried disconnecting my computer from my ISP and connected via a
> Hotspot on my phone - PROBLEM SOLVED.
>
> So this seems to be a problem with my ISP (019) blocking some traffic.
> But I don't know what the next step is.
> If I call customer service, I'm sure no-one will understand what I want.
>
> BTW - ping and the "real" traceroute work fine.
> I also looked at router settings, but did not find anything suspicious.
>
> Can anyone suggest how to explain my problem to my ISP?
>
> ALSO - if there is anyone using 019, I would be happy to send my code
> for testing to verify that this is really a problem with 019.
>
>
>
> --
> Shlomo Solomon
> http://the-solomons.net
> Claws Mail 4.0.0 - KDE Plasma 5.24.7 - Kubuntu 22.04
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
>
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[Shay Gover]

Maybe use a vm on some random cloud service?
Or better yet, use a university computer.

On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 5:43 PM Shlomo Solomon 
wrote:

> I teach computer networking and the latest assignment I gave my
> students was to use Python and Scapy to emmulate traceroute. The code
> is simple:
>  - send an ICMP packet with TTL = 1 which will fail but return the
> first hop address
>  - continue sending ICMP packets - each time increasing the TTL to get
> the next hop
>  - if the ICMP reply is NOT an error, we have arrived.
>
> None of my student submissions worked, which was strange, so I tried my
> own code which I know is correct.
> It also did not work.
> The error messages arrive for each hop, but it seems that the NO ERROR
> message (when the destination is reached) is not arriving.
> I also checked with Wireshark and see error replies (as I should) for each
> hop, but then (when I assume I have reached the destination) there is
> no reply.
>
> I then tried disconnecting my computer from my ISP and connected via a
> Hotspot on my phone - PROBLEM SOLVED.
>
> So this seems to be a problem with my ISP (019) blocking some traffic.
> But I don't know what the next step is.
> If I call customer service, I'm sure no-one will understand what I want.
>
> BTW - ping and the "real" traceroute work fine.
> I also looked at router settings, but did not find anything suspicious.
>
> Can anyone suggest how to explain my problem to my ISP?
>
> ALSO - if there is anyone using 019, I would be happy to send my code
> for testing to verify that this is really a problem with 019.
>
>
>
> --
> Shlomo Solomon
> http://the-solomons.net
> Claws Mail 4.0.0 - KDE Plasma 5.24.7 - Kubuntu 22.04
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
>
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

off topic (but I don't know who to ask) - probably?? ISP problem

[Shlomo Solomon]

I teach computer networking and the latest assignment I gave my
students was to use Python and Scapy to emmulate traceroute. The code
is simple:
 - send an ICMP packet with TTL = 1 which will fail but return the
first hop address
 - continue sending ICMP packets - each time increasing the TTL to get
the next hop
 - if the ICMP reply is NOT an error, we have arrived.

None of my student submissions worked, which was strange, so I tried my
own code which I know is correct. 
It also did not work.
The error messages arrive for each hop, but it seems that the NO ERROR
message (when the destination is reached) is not arriving. 
I also checked with Wireshark and see error replies (as I should) for each
hop, but then (when I assume I have reached the destination) there is
no reply.

I then tried disconnecting my computer from my ISP and connected via a
Hotspot on my phone - PROBLEM SOLVED.

So this seems to be a problem with my ISP (019) blocking some traffic. 
But I don't know what the next step is. 
If I call customer service, I'm sure no-one will understand what I want.

BTW - ping and the "real" traceroute work fine.
I also looked at router settings, but did not find anything suspicious.

Can anyone suggest how to explain my problem to my ISP?

ALSO - if there is anyone using 019, I would be happy to send my code
for testing to verify that this is really a problem with 019.



-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 4.0.0 - KDE Plasma 5.24.7 - Kubuntu 22.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Show and Tell at GoLUG, 5/1/2024

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

The Wednesday, 5/1/2024 GoLUG meeting commences at 7pm Eastern Daylight
Time online at meet.jit.si/golug .

I'll be late because of my kids' birthday (this happens every May), but
when I get there I'll show a simple no Javascript, CSS-only web-menu and
a 100% CSS, no graphics knockoff of the logo from TV show Law & Order.
This gives plenty of time for others to show off various interesting
tricks they've created.

Hope to see you there.

SteveT



[1]

Online via Jitsi:
https://meet.jit.si/golug

Mobile app:
https://jitsi.org/downloads/

Desktop app:
https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet-electron/releases

-- 

Steve Litt
GoLUG Publicity Coordinator

Originally founded in Orlando, Florida, United States, GoLUG now
welcomes an international audience for online presentations and
discussions on Linux and adjacent technologies.

http://golug.org

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

df problem (and work around) - kernel 5.15.0.102-generic

[Shlomo Solomon]

I had a problem with df on a cif mount. I Googled and found a
work around.
Thought this might interest others so including 2 links.


TL;DR - There is a bug in 5.15.0.102-generic. Reverting to
5.15.0.101-generic solved the problem. I hope/assume this will be
fixed in the next update.


https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=417371

https://askubuntu.com/questions/1509987/cifs-on-22-04-lts-has-something-changed-between-kernel-5-15-0-101-generic-and



-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

uboot and kernel entry point

[Lev Olshvang]

Hi list, FIT image format of uboot requires to specify kernel entry point and  load address. I thought this info Should be sowewhere in System.map  or in vmlinux  but can not figure  it ourCan u help me how to find kernel entry point  ? Much appreciate,Lev___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: Hebrew anti-clockwise clock

[Boruch Baum]

Thanks, Boris. Your advice seems like the way to go. The link to
UsingQuilt[1] seems like it will be particularly helpful.

On 2024-04-12 12:25, Boris Shtrasman wrote:
>  I'm not a debian developer, however I sent some patches in the past for
>  the Debian project.
>  Open a bug on the BTS describing the issue (you can use reportbug).
>  Check in salsa.debian.org if the project is there, if it is , you need
>  to create an account , create a patch using the quilt system and do an
>  MR inside of that patch. mention in the MR that you are fixing bug X
>
>  If it's not on salsa, get the source that exist in debian , and create
>  quilt pactch and send it to the mailing list that is related to that
>  project.
>
>   [1]https://wiki.debian.org/UsingQuilt
>
>  it might take some time that the maintainer would reply , so asking
>  around over IRC iat OFTC might help to find how to reach to the person
>  correctly.
>
>  From experience it's better to push changes first to the upstream and
>  only then update Debian with the updated version , that way other
>  distributions would enjoy these features too.
>  p.s. it might be a problem to  send patches to the Debian project post
>  Debian Project Leader actions in recent months.

--
hkp://keys.gnupg.net
CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1  7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: Hebrew anti-clockwise clock

[Boris Shtrasman]

On Thursday, 11 April 2024 8:20:50 IDT Boruch Baum wrote:
> I stumbled upon an ancient (year 1995) X11 app called xarclock that runs
> anti-clockwise. You might figure that its purpose was to mimic the
> Medieval Hebrew clock in Prague, but the author seems to have just
> wanted to gag life in the Southern hemisphere, where sundials (he
> claims) run in reverse. I added Hebrew support and published it to
> github along with a debian package and a stand-alone executable.
> 
> Debian already has the original version (patched) in its repositories.
> Is there a debian person (preferably a developer) on the list who can
> guide me how to suggest my modifications be added to the debian package?

I'm not a debian developer, however I sent some patches in the past for the 
Debian project.

Open a bug on the BTS describing the issue (you can use reportbug).

Check in salsa.debian.org if the project is there, if it is , you need to 
create an account , create a patch using the quilt system and do an MR inside 
of that patch. mention in the MR that you are fixing bug X
If it's not on salsa, get the source that exist in debian , and create quilt 
pactch and send it to the mailing list that is related to that project.

https://wiki.debian.org/UsingQuilt[1]


it might take some time that the maintainer would reply , so asking around over 
IRC iat OFTC might help to find how to reach to the person correctly.

>From experience it's better to push changes first to the upstream and only 
>then update Debian with the updated version , that way other distributions 
>would enjoy these features too.

p.s. it might be a problem to  send patches to the Debian project post Debian 
Project Leader actions in recent months.

> https://github.com/Boruch-Baum/xarclock-hebrew
> https://github.com/Boruch-Baum/xarclock-hebrew/releases/tag/v1.0
> 
> A modern QT version of this would be fun, but I don't know QT
> programming.
> 
> --
> hkp://keys.gnupg.net
> CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1  7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
> 




[1] https://wiki.debian.org/UsingQuilt
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: Hebrew anti-clockwise clock

[Mark E. Fuller]

Not a Debian dev (tried, but failed to figure out how to break in there),
but I am a Fedora packager, if you'd like me to take a look at getting it
into that distro, too.

Mark E. Fuller, Ph.D.
529 E 85th St., Apt 3C
New York, NY 10028
+1 646-331-4567 (cell)
+1 929-339-0054 (home)
+972 (0)53-872-6579
+49 (0)1577-1848188
mark.e.ful...@gmail.com
mark.e.ful...@gmx.de
@fuller:one.ems.host
https://www.stossrohr.net
PGP Fingerprint: 73F1 A30C BDF4 DB4B C75F FD0F D599 E76C FFCA BF60


On Thu, Apr 11, 2024 at 1:21 AM Boruch Baum  wrote:

> I stumbled upon an ancient (year 1995) X11 app called xarclock that runs
> anti-clockwise. You might figure that its purpose was to mimic the
> Medieval Hebrew clock in Prague, but the author seems to have just
> wanted to gag life in the Southern hemisphere, where sundials (he
> claims) run in reverse. I added Hebrew support and published it to
> github along with a debian package and a stand-alone executable.
>
> Debian already has the original version (patched) in its repositories.
> Is there a debian person (preferably a developer) on the list who can
> guide me how to suggest my modifications be added to the debian package?
>
> https://github.com/Boruch-Baum/xarclock-hebrew
> https://github.com/Boruch-Baum/xarclock-hebrew/releases/tag/v1.0
>
> A modern QT version of this would be fun, but I don't know QT
> programming.
>
> --
> hkp://keys.gnupg.net
> CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1  7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
>
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Hebrew anti-clockwise clock

[Boruch Baum]

I stumbled upon an ancient (year 1995) X11 app called xarclock that runs
anti-clockwise. You might figure that its purpose was to mimic the
Medieval Hebrew clock in Prague, but the author seems to have just
wanted to gag life in the Southern hemisphere, where sundials (he
claims) run in reverse. I added Hebrew support and published it to
github along with a debian package and a stand-alone executable.

Debian already has the original version (patched) in its repositories.
Is there a debian person (preferably a developer) on the list who can
guide me how to suggest my modifications be added to the debian package?

https://github.com/Boruch-Baum/xarclock-hebrew
https://github.com/Boruch-Baum/xarclock-hebrew/releases/tag/v1.0

A modern QT version of this would be fun, but I don't know QT
programming.

--
hkp://keys.gnupg.net
CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1  7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Linux Campfire Tales at GoLUG, 4/3/2024

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

GoLUG meeting where anyone who wants to can share their Linux or BSD
story.

==
What: Online: Linux Campfire Tales
Who: Anyone wanting to tell a Linux story
When: Wednesday 4/3/2024 at 7PM Eastern Daylight Time
Where: Jitsi online presentation, https://meet.jit.si/golug [1]
==

Everybody has a Linux or BSD story they'd like to tell. Now's your
chance. It can be from 1992 or from yesterday, or anywhere in between,
your choice. Has Linux ever saved your bacon? Slapped you in the face?
How did you transition into Linux? These stories can be first person or
third person or just something you heard about.

I imagine more than one of us will relay our experience with the recent
xz Utils backdoor: I know that mess made my heart skip a few beats
before realizing my distro wasn't affected.

Hope to see you all there.

SteveT



[1]

Online via Jitsi:
https://meet.jit.si/golug

Mobile app:
https://jitsi.org/downloads/

Desktop app:
https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet-electron/releases

-- 

Steve Litt
GoLUG Publicity Coordinator

Originally founded in Orlando, Florida, United States, GoLUG now
welcomes an international audience for online presentations and
discussions on Linux and adjacent technologies.

http://golug.org

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: Debian 12 (bookworm) vs. Nvidia?

[Omer Zak]

The reason I was stuck with the uninstallable package was that the
failure of the attempt to uninstall it seemed to block aptitude from
uninstalling/upgrading other packages.

I do not remember the exact error message. I think it was something
about trying to do echo <(echo) and getting a complaint that the
pipeline is broken.

Eventually, I uninstalled using dpkg --remove, figuring that any unmet
dependencies will be fixed later by aptitude.

With this done, I was successful in sorting out things. The only
remaining problem is that packages 'dkms', 'evdi-dkms', 'libevdi0' are
not properly installed. This is due to missing header file 'drm.h',
which is referred to by /var/lib/dkms/evdi/1.13.1/build/evdi_drm.h.


There are also some non-fatal annoyances:

1. The Google talkplugin source
(http://dl.google.com/linux/talkplugin/deb/) has now an invalid
signature, and aptitude shouts about this each time I update sources.
This file claims to be automatically modified, so I didn't try to edit
it.
The same source is perfectly OK in a Debian 11 (Bullseye) installation.

2. The terminal font is different from the one to which I am used, even
though both claim to be monospace ("Monospace 12" in Debian 11 / GNOME
Terminal 3.38.3; "Monospace Regular 12" in Debian 12 / GNOME Terminal
3.46.8 for GNOME 43).
I was not successful in identifying the actual font being used by the
terminal program in both installations.

--- Omer Zak




On Mon, 2024-03-25 at 13:58 +0200, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 04:08:44PM +0200, Omer Zak wrote:
> > I am trying to recover from the bungled upgrade.
> > I found some answers in the Internet. For example, to use kernel
> > 6.1.0-
> > 17 instead of 6.1.0-18 whose package version is 6.1.76-1) and to
> > enable
> > bookworm-updates
> > (https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/debian-12-and-nvidia-driver-nvidia-linux-x86-64-470-223-02-run/282473
> > ).
> > 
> > Now I am stuck with inability to uninstall xorg-video-nvidia-tesla-
> > 470
> > (which I think was installed in one of failed attempts to recover)
> > due
> > to error in its postrm script.
> 
> What is the error? Why do you need to uninstall it? You can always
> edit
> the postrm script.

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: Debian 12 (bookworm) vs. Nvidia?

[Rabin Yasharzadehe]

With Fedora, I usually drop/boot into single user, and remove any package
with NVIDIA in their name,

rpm -qa | grep -i nvidia | xargs dnf remove -y
   # rpm -qa return all locally installed packages

this brings me to a clean state, which allow me to install the nvidia
driver again.
I think you should be able to do the same with Debian based distro, unless
you used NVIDIA installer directly.


--
Rabin


On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 at 16:09, Omer Zak  wrote:

> I am trying to recover from the bungled upgrade.
> I found some answers in the Internet. For example, to use kernel 6.1.0-
> 17 instead of 6.1.0-18 whose package version is 6.1.76-1) and to enable
> bookworm-updates
> (
> https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/debian-12-and-nvidia-driver-nvidia-linux-x86-64-470-223-02-run/282473
> ).
>
> Now I am stuck with inability to uninstall xorg-video-nvidia-tesla-470
> (which I think was installed in one of failed attempts to recover) due
> to error in its postrm script.
>
> Before doing crazy things such as forced uninstallation or doing
> restore from backup which I took just before full upgrade, I'd like to
> know how do people deal with such problems (in Debian and maybe also in
> Ubuntu).
>
> Thanks,
> --- Omer Zak
>
> (The above is less than total disaster because it happens in a laptop
> which is not my primary work PC. I plan to upgrade my work PC only
> after having successfully upgraded the laptop. I also kept enough
> backups to have the option to perform a fresh reinstall.)
>
>
> On Fri, 2024-03-22 at 15:27 +0200, Rabin Yasharzadehe wrote:
> > My experience with NVIDIA and DKMS is that with very recent Kernels
> > the build can break,
> > but I didn't have that for some time now (years).
> >
> > Also, I get my driver from my distro repo (Fedora), which reduce the
> > chance of these issues.
> >
> > --
> > Rabin
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 at 12:01, Omer Zak  wrote:
> > > I have upgraded a laptop from Debian 11 (Bullseye) to Debian 12
> > > (Bookworm)
> > >
> > > Now I am running into trouble when trying to build DKMS modules
> > > needed
> > > by nvidia-driver (the proprietary one) on the most recent kernel
> > > version (I tried both 6.1.76-1 and 6.6.13-1~bpo12+1).
> > >
> > > There are some compile-time errors (different errors in different
> > > attempts).
> > >
> > > Is there any information about known problems of getting Nvidia
> > > software to interoperate with Debian 12 (Bookworm) working on up-
> > > to-
> > > date kernels?
> --
> One cannot argue with a Bayesian filter.   Peter Lorand Peres
> My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/
>
> My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
> They do not represent the official policy of any organization with
> which I may be affiliated in any way.
> WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
>
>
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
>
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: Debian 12 (bookworm) vs. Nvidia?

[Omer Zak]

I am trying to recover from the bungled upgrade.
I found some answers in the Internet. For example, to use kernel 6.1.0-
17 instead of 6.1.0-18 whose package version is 6.1.76-1) and to enable
bookworm-updates
(https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/debian-12-and-nvidia-driver-nvidia-linux-x86-64-470-223-02-run/282473).

Now I am stuck with inability to uninstall xorg-video-nvidia-tesla-470
(which I think was installed in one of failed attempts to recover) due
to error in its postrm script.

Before doing crazy things such as forced uninstallation or doing
restore from backup which I took just before full upgrade, I'd like to
know how do people deal with such problems (in Debian and maybe also in
Ubuntu).

Thanks,
--- Omer Zak

(The above is less than total disaster because it happens in a laptop
which is not my primary work PC. I plan to upgrade my work PC only
after having successfully upgraded the laptop. I also kept enough
backups to have the option to perform a fresh reinstall.)


On Fri, 2024-03-22 at 15:27 +0200, Rabin Yasharzadehe wrote:
> My experience with NVIDIA and DKMS is that with very recent Kernels
> the build can break, 
> but I didn't have that for some time now (years). 
> 
> Also, I get my driver from my distro repo (Fedora), which reduce the
> chance of these issues.
> 
> --
> Rabin
> 
> 
> On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 at 12:01, Omer Zak  wrote:
> > I have upgraded a laptop from Debian 11 (Bullseye) to Debian 12
> > (Bookworm)
> > 
> > Now I am running into trouble when trying to build DKMS modules
> > needed
> > by nvidia-driver (the proprietary one) on the most recent kernel
> > version (I tried both 6.1.76-1 and 6.6.13-1~bpo12+1).
> > 
> > There are some compile-time errors (different errors in different
> > attempts).
> > 
> > Is there any information about known problems of getting Nvidia
> > software to interoperate with Debian 12 (Bookworm) working on up-
> > to-
> > date kernels?
-- 
One cannot argue with a Bayesian filter.   Peter Lorand Peres
My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with
which I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html


___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: Debian 12 (bookworm) vs. Nvidia?

[Rabin Yasharzadehe]

My experience with NVIDIA and DKMS is that with very recent Kernels the
build can break,
but I didn't have that for some time now (years).

Also, I get my driver from my distro repo (Fedora), which reduce the chance
of these issues.

--
Rabin


On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 at 12:01, Omer Zak  wrote:

> I have upgraded a laptop from Debian 11 (Bullseye) to Debian 12
> (Bookworm)
>
> Now I am running into trouble when trying to build DKMS modules needed
> by nvidia-driver (the proprietary one) on the most recent kernel
> version (I tried both 6.1.76-1 and 6.6.13-1~bpo12+1).
>
> There are some compile-time errors (different errors in different
> attempts).
>
> Is there any information about known problems of getting Nvidia
> software to interoperate with Debian 12 (Bookworm) working on up-to-
> date kernels?
>
> --- Omer Zak
>
>
> --
> My Commodore 64 is suffering from slowness and insufficiency of memory;
> and its display device is grievously short of pixels.  Can anyone help?
> My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/
>
> My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
> They do not represent the official policy of any organization with
> which I may be affiliated in any way.
> WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
>
>
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
>
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Debian 12 (bookworm) vs. Nvidia?

[Omer Zak]

I have upgraded a laptop from Debian 11 (Bullseye) to Debian 12
(Bookworm)

Now I am running into trouble when trying to build DKMS modules needed
by nvidia-driver (the proprietary one) on the most recent kernel
version (I tried both 6.1.76-1 and 6.6.13-1~bpo12+1).

There are some compile-time errors (different errors in different
attempts).

Is there any information about known problems of getting Nvidia
software to interoperate with Debian 12 (Bookworm) working on up-to-
date kernels?

--- Omer Zak


-- 
My Commodore 64 is suffering from slowness and insufficiency of memory;
and its display device is grievously short of pixels.  Can anyone help?
My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with
which I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html


___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Online presentation, System Transparency, 3/6/2024

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

GoLUG meeting discussing the costs and benefits of transparent systems
on 3/6:

==
What: Online presentation: System Transparency, Costs and Benefits
Who: Steve Litt
When: Wednesday 3/6/2024 at 7PM Eastern Standard Time
Where: Jitsi online presentation, https://meet.jit.si/golug [1]
==

FEATURING:
* Quick demo of my new email pager system
* Definition of System Transparency:
- Many accessible test points
- Internal workings are partially to completely visible
- Opposite of black box
* Two examples from my new email pager system:
- Fetchmail enhanced with a shellscript
- Procmail enhanced with a Python program
* Costs and Benefits:
- Benefits
- Costs
- Making the choice
* Contrived test points

System transparency yields huge debugging benefits, but
paradoxically can also add to complexity. Whether you're creating a
new system or using a pre-made system for new or unusual purposes,
you need to make your system or subsystem at least transparent
enough that you can sanely debug it, in order to save yourself hours or
days of frustrating and needless debugging. This is true of hardware
and software, although this presentation will showcase software. I hope
to see you there.

SteveT



[1]

Online via Jitsi:
https://meet.jit.si/golug

Mobile app:
https://jitsi.org/downloads/

Desktop app:
https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet-electron/releases

-- 

Steve Litt
GoLUG Publicity Coordinator

Originally founded in Orlando, Florida, United States, GoLUG now
welcomes an international audience for online presentations and
discussions on Linux and adjacent technologies.

http://golug.org

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

[Steve Litt]

Dotan Cohen said on Sun, 3 Mar 2024 19:31:12 +0200

>Debian, as an organization, has a public image that reflects the
>sentiments of the people who make up that organization. Those people
>have begun slandering the Jewish state.
>
>Debian is not conscious and can not support or oppose anything. The
>people who compose of the organization are conscious, and have
>declared their stance.

Could you please give some examples of high profile Debian people
posting anti-Israel content?

I don't like the whole Debian organization, but before I add this to my
many reasons for this dislike, I'd like to see evidence.

By the way, whoever wrote the post we're discussing is a total turd.

SteveT

Steve Litt 

Autumn 2023 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

[Dotan Cohen]

Debian, as an organization, has a public image that reflects the sentiments
of the people who make up that organization. Those people have begun
slandering the Jewish state.

Debian is not conscious and can not support or oppose anything. The people
who compose of the organization are conscious, and have declared their
stance.

On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 at 15:20, Tzafrir Cohen  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Sat, Mar 02, 2024 at 09:21:37PM +0200, borissh1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of using
> > or supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader shared a call
> > for BDS  ?
>
> Debian does not support (or oppose, or whatever) BDS.
>
> Some Debian people may support (or oppose or whatever).
>
> --
> mail / xmpp / matrix: tzaf...@cohens.org.il
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
>
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

[Tzafrir Cohen]

Hi,

On Sat, Mar 02, 2024 at 09:21:37PM +0200, borissh1...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of using 
> or supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader shared a call
> for BDS  ?

Debian does not support (or oppose, or whatever) BDS.

Some Debian people may support (or oppose or whatever).

-- 
mail / xmpp / matrix: tzaf...@cohens.org.il
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

[borissh1983]

Hi, 

As this question had been asked twice I had uploaded a screenshot 
https://ibb.co/hFcPrvB[1] of that action.

In order to see that on his page one need to scroll a bit down ,  The text 
start with "Israel just bombed a tent city full of #refugees[1] who fled North 
#Gaza[2] for #Rafah[3] on the #IDF[4]'s orders. Horrifying photos show families 
frantically rummaging through the carnage for the limbs of their family 
members. I won't reproduce them here, but they can be found on the bird site 
from @gazanotifications"  and you would need to click on "show more"


The direct link to the message is 
https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK[2] , however it would 
forward you directly to the original writer (highvoltage  shared it but did not 
write it himself).
if you would scroll inside 
https://functional.cafe/@rml/111916398704166807/reblogs[3] you would see  

   highvoltage@pleroma.debian.social
   highvoltage @highvoltage@pleroma.debian.social
   446 Followers
screenshot at https://ibb.co/HrSxsRP[4]

Which show that he shared that message.

On Sunday, 3 March 2024 11:31:02 IST Shachar Shemesh wrote:


I've gone over his feed and have not found any calls for BDS. Do
you have a direct link?






Shachar






On 02/03/2024 21:21,

borissh1...@gmail.com[5] wrote:






Hi, 




A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of
using or supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader
shared a call for BDS? ? 



The Debian Project Leader (highvoltage) had "repeated" (shared?)
a call for BDS on the debian social site 
(https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK[2])?
that can be seen on his admin account at? 
https://pleroma.debian.social/highvoltage[6]?(one
would need to scroll down to see this message).


?


Legally,
do we have a problem to train developers on using debian ,
provide services that install Debian, ti package a proprietary
code to run on Debian or even just contribute to Debian after
the call by the admin on debian.social ? or because it was not
listed? on https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/[7]?we
should be safe ?


?


The
site where it was shared is debian.social which had been
described? as "The Debian social team aims to run a few services
under the debian.social domain. Our goal is to create a safe
space for Debian contributors (whether they are project members
or not) to share what they're doing in the project and to
showcase their work, collaborate with others and share
knowledge. If you tick any of those boxes, you may create an
account. Just like planet Debian, it's completely fine for these
platforms to have a personal touch, however, our goal is not to
create any kind of social network per s?. 


"

The debian.social was announced? a while ago 
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2020/03/msg8.html[8]



It was shared two weeks ago, but I only realized it might be a
problem as a user today.




___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il[9]
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il[10]










[1] https://ibb.co/hFcPrvB
[2] https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK
[3] https://functional.cafe/@rml/111916398704166807/reblogs
[4] https://ibb.co/HrSxsRP
[5] mailto:borissh1...@gmail.com
[6] https://pleroma.debian.social/highvoltage
[7] https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/
[8] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2020/03/msg8.html
[9] mailto:linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
[10] mailto:linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

[Shachar Shemesh]

  
  
I've gone over his feed and have not found any calls for BDS. Do
  you have a direct link?


Shachar


On 02/03/2024 21:21,
  borissh1...@gmail.com wrote:


  
  Hi, 
  
A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of
using or supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader
shared a call for BDS? ? 

The Debian Project Leader (highvoltage) had "repeated" (shared?)
a call for BDS on the debian social site (https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK)?
that can be seen on his admin account at? https://pleroma.debian.social/highvoltage?(one
would need to scroll down to see this message).
  ?
  Legally,
do we have a problem to train developers on using debian ,
provide services that install Debian, ti package a proprietary
code to run on Debian or even just contribute to Debian after
the call by the admin on debian.social ? or because it was not
listed? on https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/?we
should be safe ?
  ?
  The
site where it was shared is debian.social which had been
described? as "The Debian social team aims to run a few services
under the debian.social domain. Our goal is to create a safe
space for Debian contributors (whether they are project members
or not) to share what they're doing in the project and to
showcase their work, collaborate with others and share
knowledge. If you tick any of those boxes, you may create an
account. Just like planet Debian, it's completely fine for these
platforms to have a personal touch, however, our goal is not to
create any kind of social network per s?. 
  "
The debian.social was announced? a while ago https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2020/03/msg8.html

It was shared two weeks ago, but I only realized it might be a
problem as a user today.
  
  
  ___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il


  

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

[Marc Volovic (me)]

IANAL, but the Israeli law is rather inimical to BDS and its derivates. I am 
not even going to consider what is the drift outside Israel, aince whatever the 
status is now, it will likely change significantly in the coming months (and 
not, I suspect, in Israel's favour).

What the Israeli law do with people making use of products "tainted" with BDS 
opinions, I have no opinion. Given, however, the general Israeli propensity for 
sippenhaft, I would consult with a lawyer before making use of Debian in future 
projects and activities.

3 Mar 2024 10:44:50 borissh1...@gmail.com:

> Hi,
> 
> While it is nice and fun to have a political discussion on how much the 
> debian leader is wrong, and how it hurts FOSS in general.
> 
> I'm asking, if we as people who work with debian or contribute to it would 
> have a problem now in  IL , US or DE.
> 
> I for example train new developers and it guys on Debian, provide services 
> that use debian as the main OS, and even have done some work that 
> auto-package software to run on Debian, given this announcements, it is not 
> clear for me if I'm even it is safe to still do it now.
> 
> On Sunday, 3 March 2024 10:11:06 IST Marc Volovic (me) wrote:
>> i suggest not starting down the route of the "who did more to whom" 
>> measuring. This is a yardstick measurement comoetitio  that Israel will not 
>> win, by any type of measurement.
>> 
>> The "right" response would be a protest for bringing political discourse 
>> into the technical sphere (if this is indeed a technical sphere, something 
>> not certain) or ignoring the rise. Remember the "wrestling in the mud" adage.
> 
>> 
>> 3 Mar 2024 10:03:14 Omer Zak :
>> 
>>> OOPS, my mistake.
>>> In this case, I suggest:
>>> 
>>> 1. Check if any Debian Developers (Israeli or non-Israeli) were killed
>>> by the Hamas on Oct. 7th.
>>> If yes, call for impeachment of Highvoltage on grounds of his betrayal
>>> of some Debian Developers.
>>> 
>>> 2 Call out Highvoltage's ignoring of the atrocities advocated
>>> by Hamas against Israel.
>>> On Sun, 2024-03-03 at 09:49 +0200, Boris Shtrasman wrote:
 The person who shared that post is Highvoltage (the Debian Project
 Leader) , it's posteed on Debian Project Leader page (but originally
 written by someone else).
 
 On Sunday, 3 March 2024 9:45:24 IST Omer Zak wrote:
> I looked around the links and some Debian information.
> I found no indication that the guy has any leadership role in
> Debian.
> He describes himself as "pro-Palestine, pro-Black, pro-Indigenous,
> pro-
> Queer, pro-létarian".
> 
> Seems to me that someone, who is so busy with those identities,
> would
> not have much time for real technical work.
> 
> I believe that the proper course of action is to complain against
> his
> ignoring (if he did ignore - I did not read carefully) the 1200
> Israelis mutilated and murdered by Hamas as well as the Hamas
> Charter,
> and then just ignore him and do not let him affect our Debian
> related
> work.
> 
> --- Omer Zak
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2024-03-02 at 21:21 +0200, borissh1...@gmail.com wrote:
>> …
> 
> 
> -- 
> "Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by
> looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made
> it
> possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man." - Walter E.
> Williams
> My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/
> 
> My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
> They do not represent the official policy of any organization with
> which I may be affiliated in any way.
> WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
>> ___
>> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
>> 
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

[borissh1983]

Hi, 

While it is nice and fun to have a political discussion on how much the debian 
leader is wrong, and how it hurts FOSS in general.

I'm asking, if we as people who work with debian or contribute to it would have 
a problem now in  IL , US or DE.

I for example train new developers and it guys on Debian, provide services that 
use debian as the main OS, and even have done some work that auto-package 
software to run on Debian, given this announcements, it is not clear for me if 
I'm even it is safe to still do it now.

On Sunday, 3 March 2024 10:11:06 IST Marc Volovic (me) wrote:
> i suggest not starting down the route of the "who did more to whom" 
> measuring. This is a yardstick measurement comoetitio  that Israel will not 
> win, by any type of measurement.
> 
> The "right" response would be a protest for bringing political discourse into 
> the technical sphere (if this is indeed a technical sphere, something not 
> certain) or ignoring the rise. Remember the "wrestling in the mud" adage.

> 
> 3 Mar 2024 10:03:14 Omer Zak :
> 
> > OOPS, my mistake.
> > In this case, I suggest:
> > 
> > 1. Check if any Debian Developers (Israeli or non-Israeli) were killed
> > by the Hamas on Oct. 7th.
> > If yes, call for impeachment of Highvoltage on grounds of his betrayal
> > of some Debian Developers.
> > 
> > 2 Call out Highvoltage's ignoring of the atrocities advocated
> > by Hamas against Israel.
> > On Sun, 2024-03-03 at 09:49 +0200, Boris Shtrasman wrote:
> >> The person who shared that post is Highvoltage (the Debian Project
> >> Leader) , it's posteed on Debian Project Leader page (but originally
> >> written by someone else).
> >> 
> >> On Sunday, 3 March 2024 9:45:24 IST Omer Zak wrote:
> >>> I looked around the links and some Debian information.
> >>> I found no indication that the guy has any leadership role in
> >>> Debian.
> >>> He describes himself as "pro-Palestine, pro-Black, pro-Indigenous,
> >>> pro-
> >>> Queer, pro-létarian".
> >>> 
> >>> Seems to me that someone, who is so busy with those identities,
> >>> would
> >>> not have much time for real technical work.
> >>> 
> >>> I believe that the proper course of action is to complain against
> >>> his
> >>> ignoring (if he did ignore - I did not read carefully) the 1200
> >>> Israelis mutilated and murdered by Hamas as well as the Hamas
> >>> Charter,
> >>> and then just ignore him and do not let him affect our Debian
> >>> related
> >>> work.
> >>> 
> >>> --- Omer Zak
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On Sat, 2024-03-02 at 21:21 +0200, borissh1...@gmail.com wrote:
>  Hi,
>  
>  A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of
>  using or supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader
>  shared
>  a call for BDS  ?
>  
>  The Debian Project Leader (highvoltage) had "repeated" (shared?)
>  a
>  call for BDS on the debian social site (
>  https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK)  that
>  can be
>  seen on his admin account at  
>  https://pleroma.debian.social/highvoltage (one would need to
>  scroll
>  down to see this message).
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> -- 
> >>> "Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by
> >>> looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made
> >>> it
> >>> possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man." - Walter E.
> >>> Williams
> >>> My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/
> >>> 
> >>> My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
> >>> They do not represent the official policy of any organization with
> >>> which I may be affiliated in any way.
> >>> WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
> > 
> > ___
> > Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> > To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
> 




___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

[Marc Volovic (me)]

i suggest not starting down the route of the "who did more to whom" measuring. 
This is a yardstick measurement comoetitio  that Israel will not win, by any 
type of measurement.

The "right" response would be a protest for bringing political discourse into 
the technical sphere (if this is indeed a technical sphere, something not 
certain) or ignoring the rise. Remember the "wrestling in the mud" adage.

m

3 Mar 2024 10:03:14 Omer Zak :

> OOPS, my mistake.
> In this case, I suggest:
> 
> 1. Check if any Debian Developers (Israeli or non-Israeli) were killed
> by the Hamas on Oct. 7th.
> If yes, call for impeachment of Highvoltage on grounds of his betrayal
> of some Debian Developers.
> 
> 2 Call out Highvoltage's ignoring of the atrocities advocated
> by Hamas against Israel.
> 
> 
> On Sun, 2024-03-03 at 09:49 +0200, Boris Shtrasman wrote:
>> The person who shared that post is Highvoltage (the Debian Project
>> Leader) , it's posteed on Debian Project Leader page (but originally
>> written by someone else).
>> 
>> On Sunday, 3 March 2024 9:45:24 IST Omer Zak wrote:
>>> I looked around the links and some Debian information.
>>> I found no indication that the guy has any leadership role in
>>> Debian.
>>> He describes himself as "pro-Palestine, pro-Black, pro-Indigenous,
>>> pro-
>>> Queer, pro-létarian".
>>> 
>>> Seems to me that someone, who is so busy with those identities,
>>> would
>>> not have much time for real technical work.
>>> 
>>> I believe that the proper course of action is to complain against
>>> his
>>> ignoring (if he did ignore - I did not read carefully) the 1200
>>> Israelis mutilated and murdered by Hamas as well as the Hamas
>>> Charter,
>>> and then just ignore him and do not let him affect our Debian
>>> related
>>> work.
>>> 
>>> --- Omer Zak
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, 2024-03-02 at 21:21 +0200, borissh1...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,
 
 A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of
 using or supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader
 shared
 a call for BDS  ?
 
 The Debian Project Leader (highvoltage) had "repeated" (shared?)
 a
 call for BDS on the debian social site (
 https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK)  that
 can be
 seen on his admin account at  
 https://pleroma.debian.social/highvoltage (one would need to
 scroll
 down to see this message).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> "Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by
>>> looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made
>>> it
>>> possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man." - Walter E.
>>> Williams
>>> My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/
>>> 
>>> My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
>>> They do not represent the official policy of any organization with
>>> which I may be affiliated in any way.
>>> WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
> 
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

[Omer Zak]

OOPS, my mistake.
In this case, I suggest:

1. Check if any Debian Developers (Israeli or non-Israeli) were killed
by the Hamas on Oct. 7th.
If yes, call for impeachment of Highvoltage on grounds of his betrayal
of some Debian Developers.

2 Call out Highvoltage's ignoring of the atrocities advocated
by Hamas against Israel.


On Sun, 2024-03-03 at 09:49 +0200, Boris Shtrasman wrote:
> The person who shared that post is Highvoltage (the Debian Project
> Leader) , it's posteed on Debian Project Leader page (but originally
> written by someone else).
> 
> On Sunday, 3 March 2024 9:45:24 IST Omer Zak wrote:
> > I looked around the links and some Debian information.
> > I found no indication that the guy has any leadership role in
> > Debian.
> > He describes himself as "pro-Palestine, pro-Black, pro-Indigenous,
> > pro-
> > Queer, pro-létarian".
> > 
> > Seems to me that someone, who is so busy with those identities,
> > would
> > not have much time for real technical work.
> > 
> > I believe that the proper course of action is to complain against
> > his
> > ignoring (if he did ignore - I did not read carefully) the 1200
> > Israelis mutilated and murdered by Hamas as well as the Hamas
> > Charter,
> > and then just ignore him and do not let him affect our Debian
> > related
> > work.
> > 
> > --- Omer Zak
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, 2024-03-02 at 21:21 +0200, borissh1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Hi, 
> > > 
> > > A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of
> > > using or supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader
> > > shared
> > > a call for BDS  ? 
> > > 
> > > The Debian Project Leader (highvoltage) had "repeated" (shared?)
> > > a
> > > call for BDS on the debian social site ( 
> > > https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK)  that
> > > can be
> > > seen on his admin account at   
> > > https://pleroma.debian.social/highvoltage (one would need to
> > > scroll
> > > down to see this message).
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > "Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by
> > looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made
> > it
> > possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man." - Walter E.
> > Williams
> > My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/
> > 
> > My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
> > They do not represent the official policy of any organization with
> > which I may be affiliated in any way.
> > WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

[Boris Shtrasman]

The person who shared that post is Highvoltage (the Debian Project Leader) , 
it's posteed on Debian Project Leader page (but originally written by someone 
else).

On Sunday, 3 March 2024 9:45:24 IST Omer Zak wrote:
> I looked around the links and some Debian information.
> I found no indication that the guy has any leadership role in Debian.
> He describes himself as "pro-Palestine, pro-Black, pro-Indigenous, pro-
> Queer, pro-létarian".
> 
> Seems to me that someone, who is so busy with those identities, would
> not have much time for real technical work.
> 
> I believe that the proper course of action is to complain against his
> ignoring (if he did ignore - I did not read carefully) the 1200
> Israelis mutilated and murdered by Hamas as well as the Hamas Charter,
> and then just ignore him and do not let him affect our Debian related
> work.
> 
> --- Omer Zak
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2024-03-02 at 21:21 +0200, borissh1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hi, 
> > 
> > A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of
> > using or supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader shared
> > a call for BDS  ? 
> > 
> > The Debian Project Leader (highvoltage) had "repeated" (shared?) a
> > call for BDS on the debian social site ( 
> > https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK)  that can be
> > seen on his admin account at   
> > https://pleroma.debian.social/highvoltage (one would need to scroll
> > down to see this message).
> 
> 
> -- 
> "Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by
> looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made it
> possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man." - Walter E.
> Williams
> My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/
> 
> My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
> They do not represent the official policy of any organization with
> which I may be affiliated in any way.
> WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
> 




___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

[Omer Zak]

I looked around the links and some Debian information.
I found no indication that the guy has any leadership role in Debian.
He describes himself as "pro-Palestine, pro-Black, pro-Indigenous, pro-
Queer, pro-létarian".

Seems to me that someone, who is so busy with those identities, would
not have much time for real technical work.

I believe that the proper course of action is to complain against his
ignoring (if he did ignore - I did not read carefully) the 1200
Israelis mutilated and murdered by Hamas as well as the Hamas Charter,
and then just ignore him and do not let him affect our Debian related
work.

--- Omer Zak



On Sat, 2024-03-02 at 21:21 +0200, borissh1...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of
> using or supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader shared
> a call for BDS  ? 
> 
> The Debian Project Leader (highvoltage) had "repeated" (shared?) a
> call for BDS on the debian social site ( 
> https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK)  that can be
> seen on his admin account at   
> https://pleroma.debian.social/highvoltage (one would need to scroll
> down to see this message).


-- 
"Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by
looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made it
possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man." - Walter E.
Williams
My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with
which I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html



___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Are there any implication of using or supporting Debian now that the Project Leader shared a call for BDS on debian.social ?

[borissh1983]

Hi, 

A bit clueless question , but are there any legal implication of using or 
supporting Debian now that the Debian Project Leader shared a call for BDS  ? 

The Debian Project Leader (highvoltage) had "repeated" (shared?) a call for BDS 
on the debian social site 
(https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK[1])  that can be seen 
on his admin account at  https://pleroma.debian.social/highvoltage[2] (one 
would need to scroll down to see this message).


Legally, do we have a problem to train developers on using debian , provide 
services that install Debian, ti package a proprietary code to run on Debian or 
even just contribute to Debian after the call by the admin on debian.social ? 
or because it was not listed  on https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/[3] 
we should be safe ?


The site where it was shared is debian.social which had been described  as "The 
Debian social team aims to run a few services under the debian.social domain. 
Our goal is to create a safe space for Debian contributors (whether they are 
project members or not) to share what they're doing in the project and to 
showcase their work, collaborate with others and share knowledge. If you tick 
any of those boxes, you may create an account. Just like planet Debian, it's 
completely fine for these platforms to have a personal touch, however, our goal 
is not to create any kind of social network per sé. 
"
The debian.social was announced  a while ago 
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2020/03/msg8.html[4]

It was shared two weeks ago, but I only realized it might be a problem as a 
user today.


[1] https://pleroma.debian.social/notice/AenLD9Ez2JCrSfrCsK
[2] https://pleroma.debian.social/highvoltage
[3] https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/
[4] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2020/03/msg8.html
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: problem with cron on Kubuntu 22.04

[shimi]

On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 6:44 PM Mark E. Fuller 
wrote:

> need to run `sudo systemctl enable cron` to get it going at every boot
> and `sudo systemctl start cron` to start it immediately
>

Or better, 'sudo systemctl enable --now cron', which does both actions in
one command. ditto for 'disable' / stop.

P.S. I know the OP's issue has been resolved, this is for future Googlers...
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: problem with cron on Kubuntu 22.04

[Shlomo Solomon]

THANK YOU 
Your guess was wrong, but sudo systemctl status cron (which I did not
think of before) helped me find the problem.
The service WAS running, but the output of that command showed that the
owner of /etc/crontab was not root.

A stupid mistake on my part - I copied the file from another computer
and did not change the owner. But I would not have found the error
without your help, so again - THANK YOU !


 


On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 11:43:46 -0500
"Mark E. Fuller"  wrote:

> If I had to hazard a guess, it has something to do with systemd (the 
> usual suspect)
> 
> What does `|sudo systemctl status cron` return?
> 
> If that shows the service being disabled or stopped, you'll of course 
> need to run `||sudo systemctl enable cron` to get it going at every
> boot and |`|sudo systemctl start cron||` to start it immediately
> 
> |On 07-Feb-24 11:23, Shlomo Solomon wrote:
> > No - that did not change anything and, in any case, as I wrote, that
> > exact line (including root) works on another Kubuntu 22.04 machine.
> >
> > It also worked on Kubuntu 20.04 before I did a new install of 22.04
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 17:41:05 +0200
> > אורי  wrote:
> >
> >> Try to remove the word "root"
> >> אורי
> >> u...@speedy.net
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 5:18 PM Shlomo Solomon
> >>   wrote:
> >>
> >>> Sorry if this is a bit long, but I wanted to give as much
> >>> information as I could and hope someone can help.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On a new installation of Kubuntu 22.04, cron jobs are not running
> >>> and this is driving me crazy.
> >>>
> >>> The cron daemon is running
> >>>
> >>> shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ pgrep cron
> >>> 827
> >>>
> >>> I thought there might be a problem with a specific job so I
> >>> created the following simple script (which DOES work).
> >>>
> >>> shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ cat tstrun
> >>> #!/usr/bin/sh
> >>> cd /home/shoshana/Desktop
> >>> echo "" >> tst.txt
> >>>
> >>> If I do:  cd /home/shoshana/Desktop
> >>>./tstrun
> >>> the script works and I see   in tst.txt
> >>>
> >>> I then deleted ALL jobs in crontab and added only the following to
> >>> /etc/crontab
> >>> */1 * * * * root /home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun
> >>>
> >>> Nothing happens - nothing written in tst.txt
> >>>
> >>> I tried:
> >>> sudo grep CRON /var/log/syslog   and got no output
> >>>
> >>> I changed the script to:
> >>> #!/usr/bin/sh
> >>> echo "test echo from tstrun"
> >>> cd /home/shoshana/Desktop
> >>> echo "" >> tst.txt
> >>>
> >>> and changed the crontab line to:
> >>> */1 * * * * root /home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun >>
> >>> /home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun-log.txt
> >>>
> >>> still no output in tst.txt and also no output in
> >>> /home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun-log.txt
> >>>
> >>> And as expected, if I do:
> >>> ./tstrun >> tstrun-log.txt
> >>> I see the expected output in both files
> >>>
> >>> I also tried:
> >>> shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo service cron stop
> >>> shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo service cron start
> >>> shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ pgrep cron
> >>> 3377
> >>>
> >>> AND
> >>> shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo systemctl stop cron
> >>> shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo systemctl start cron
> >>> shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ pgrep cron
> >>> 3413
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> But still no change.
> >>>
> >>> And just to be clear, on a different machine (also Kubuntu 22.04)
> >>> all the above DOES work - output to both files and if I do:
> >>> sudo grep CRON /var/log/syslog   I get:
> >>> Feb  7 17:13:01 solomon-laptop CRON[16619]: (root) CMD
> >>> (/home/solomon/Desktop/tstrun)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Shlomo Solomon
> >>> http://the-solomons.net
> >>> Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
> >>> ___
> >>> Linux-il mailing list --linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> >>> To unsubscribe send an email tolinux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
> >>>
> >
> >
> 



-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: problem with cron on Kubuntu 22.04

[Mark E. Fuller]

If I had to hazard a guess, it has something to do with systemd (the 
usual suspect)


What does `|sudo systemctl status cron` return?

If that shows the service being disabled or stopped, you'll of course 
need to run `||sudo systemctl enable cron` to get it going at every boot 
and |`|sudo systemctl start cron||` to start it immediately


|On 07-Feb-24 11:23, Shlomo Solomon wrote:

No - that did not change anything and, in any case, as I wrote, that
exact line (including root) works on another Kubuntu 22.04 machine.

It also worked on Kubuntu 20.04 before I did a new install of 22.04



On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 17:41:05 +0200
אורי  wrote:


Try to remove the word "root"
אורי
u...@speedy.net


On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 5:18 PM Shlomo Solomon
  wrote:


Sorry if this is a bit long, but I wanted to give as much
information as I could and hope someone can help.


On a new installation of Kubuntu 22.04, cron jobs are not running
and this is driving me crazy.

The cron daemon is running

shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ pgrep cron
827

I thought there might be a problem with a specific job so I created
the following simple script (which DOES work).

shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ cat tstrun
#!/usr/bin/sh
cd /home/shoshana/Desktop
echo "" >> tst.txt

If I do:  cd /home/shoshana/Desktop
   ./tstrun
the script works and I see   in tst.txt

I then deleted ALL jobs in crontab and added only the following to
/etc/crontab
*/1 * * * * root /home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun

Nothing happens - nothing written in tst.txt

I tried:
sudo grep CRON /var/log/syslog   and got no output

I changed the script to:
#!/usr/bin/sh
echo "test echo from tstrun"
cd /home/shoshana/Desktop
echo "" >> tst.txt

and changed the crontab line to:
*/1 * * * * root /home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun >>
/home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun-log.txt

still no output in tst.txt and also no output in
/home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun-log.txt

And as expected, if I do:
./tstrun >> tstrun-log.txt
I see the expected output in both files

I also tried:
shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo service cron stop
shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo service cron start
shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ pgrep cron
3377

AND
shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo systemctl stop cron
shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo systemctl start cron
shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ pgrep cron
3413


But still no change.

And just to be clear, on a different machine (also Kubuntu 22.04)
all the above DOES work - output to both files and if I do:
sudo grep CRON /var/log/syslog   I get:
Feb  7 17:13:01 solomon-laptop CRON[16619]: (root) CMD
(/home/solomon/Desktop/tstrun)






--
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
___
Linux-il mailing list --linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email tolinux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il






--
Mark E. Fuller, Ph.D.
529 East 85th St., Apt. 3C
New York, NY 10028, USA
+1 646-331-4567 (cell)
+1 929-339-0054 (home)
+972 (0)53-872-6579
+49 (0)1577-1848188
mark.e.ful...@gmail.com
mark.e.ful...@gmx.de
@fuller:one.ems.host
https://mefuller.dev
PGP Fingerprint: 73F1 A30C BDF4 DB4B C75F FD0F D599 E76C FFCA BF60
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: problem with cron on Kubuntu 22.04

[Shlomo Solomon]

No - that did not change anything and, in any case, as I wrote, that
exact line (including root) works on another Kubuntu 22.04 machine.

It also worked on Kubuntu 20.04 before I did a new install of 22.04



On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 17:41:05 +0200
אורי  wrote:

> Try to remove the word "root"
> אורי
> u...@speedy.net
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 5:18 PM Shlomo Solomon
>  wrote:
> 
> > Sorry if this is a bit long, but I wanted to give as much
> > information as I could and hope someone can help.
> >
> >
> > On a new installation of Kubuntu 22.04, cron jobs are not running
> > and this is driving me crazy.
> >
> > The cron daemon is running
> >
> > shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ pgrep cron
> > 827
> >
> > I thought there might be a problem with a specific job so I created
> > the following simple script (which DOES work).
> >
> > shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ cat tstrun
> > #!/usr/bin/sh
> > cd /home/shoshana/Desktop
> > echo "" >> tst.txt
> >
> > If I do:  cd /home/shoshana/Desktop
> >   ./tstrun
> > the script works and I see   in tst.txt
> >
> > I then deleted ALL jobs in crontab and added only the following to
> > /etc/crontab
> > */1 * * * * root /home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun
> >
> > Nothing happens - nothing written in tst.txt
> >
> > I tried:
> > sudo grep CRON /var/log/syslog   and got no output
> >
> > I changed the script to:
> > #!/usr/bin/sh
> > echo "test echo from tstrun"
> > cd /home/shoshana/Desktop
> > echo "" >> tst.txt
> >
> > and changed the crontab line to:
> > */1 * * * * root /home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun >>
> > /home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun-log.txt
> >
> > still no output in tst.txt and also no output in
> > /home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun-log.txt
> >
> > And as expected, if I do:
> > ./tstrun >> tstrun-log.txt
> > I see the expected output in both files
> >
> > I also tried:
> > shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo service cron stop
> > shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo service cron start
> > shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ pgrep cron
> > 3377
> >
> > AND
> > shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo systemctl stop cron
> > shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo systemctl start cron
> > shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ pgrep cron
> > 3413
> >
> >
> > But still no change.
> >
> > And just to be clear, on a different machine (also Kubuntu 22.04)
> > all the above DOES work - output to both files and if I do:
> > sudo grep CRON /var/log/syslog   I get:
> > Feb  7 17:13:01 solomon-laptop CRON[16619]: (root) CMD
> > (/home/solomon/Desktop/tstrun)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Shlomo Solomon
> > http://the-solomons.net
> > Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
> > ___
> > Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> > To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
> >



-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: problem with cron on Kubuntu 22.04

[אורי]

Try to remove the word "root"
אורי
u...@speedy.net


On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 5:18 PM Shlomo Solomon 
wrote:

> Sorry if this is a bit long, but I wanted to give as much information
> as I could and hope someone can help.
>
>
> On a new installation of Kubuntu 22.04, cron jobs are not running and
> this is driving me crazy.
>
> The cron daemon is running
>
> shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ pgrep cron
> 827
>
> I thought there might be a problem with a specific job so I created the
> following simple script (which DOES work).
>
> shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ cat tstrun
> #!/usr/bin/sh
> cd /home/shoshana/Desktop
> echo "" >> tst.txt
>
> If I do:  cd /home/shoshana/Desktop
>   ./tstrun
> the script works and I see   in tst.txt
>
> I then deleted ALL jobs in crontab and added only the following to
> /etc/crontab
> */1 * * * * root /home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun
>
> Nothing happens - nothing written in tst.txt
>
> I tried:
> sudo grep CRON /var/log/syslog   and got no output
>
> I changed the script to:
> #!/usr/bin/sh
> echo "test echo from tstrun"
> cd /home/shoshana/Desktop
> echo "" >> tst.txt
>
> and changed the crontab line to:
> */1 * * * * root /home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun >>
> /home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun-log.txt
>
> still no output in tst.txt and also no output in
> /home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun-log.txt
>
> And as expected, if I do:
> ./tstrun >> tstrun-log.txt
> I see the expected output in both files
>
> I also tried:
> shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo service cron stop
> shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo service cron start
> shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ pgrep cron
> 3377
>
> AND
> shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo systemctl stop cron
> shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo systemctl start cron
> shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ pgrep cron
> 3413
>
>
> But still no change.
>
> And just to be clear, on a different machine (also Kubuntu 22.04) all
> the above DOES work - output to both files and if I do:
> sudo grep CRON /var/log/syslog   I get:
> Feb  7 17:13:01 solomon-laptop CRON[16619]: (root) CMD
> (/home/solomon/Desktop/tstrun)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Shlomo Solomon
> http://the-solomons.net
> Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
>
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

problem with cron on Kubuntu 22.04

[Shlomo Solomon]

Sorry if this is a bit long, but I wanted to give as much information
as I could and hope someone can help.


On a new installation of Kubuntu 22.04, cron jobs are not running and
this is driving me crazy.

The cron daemon is running

shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ pgrep cron
827

I thought there might be a problem with a specific job so I created the
following simple script (which DOES work).

shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ cat tstrun
#!/usr/bin/sh
cd /home/shoshana/Desktop
echo "" >> tst.txt

If I do:  cd /home/shoshana/Desktop
  ./tstrun
the script works and I see   in tst.txt

I then deleted ALL jobs in crontab and added only the following to
/etc/crontab 
*/1 * * * * root /home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun

Nothing happens - nothing written in tst.txt

I tried:
sudo grep CRON /var/log/syslog   and got no output

I changed the script to:
#!/usr/bin/sh
echo "test echo from tstrun"
cd /home/shoshana/Desktop
echo "" >> tst.txt

and changed the crontab line to:
*/1 * * * * root /home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun >>
/home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun-log.txt

still no output in tst.txt and also no output in
/home/shoshana/Desktop/tstrun-log.txt

And as expected, if I do:
./tstrun >> tstrun-log.txt
I see the expected output in both files

I also tried:
shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo service cron stop
shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo service cron start
shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ pgrep cron
3377

AND
shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo systemctl stop cron
shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ sudo systemctl start cron
shoshana@shoshana:~/Desktop$ pgrep cron
3413


But still no change.

And just to be clear, on a different machine (also Kubuntu 22.04) all
the above DOES work - output to both files and if I do:
sudo grep CRON /var/log/syslog   I get:
Feb  7 17:13:01 solomon-laptop CRON[16619]: (root) CMD
(/home/solomon/Desktop/tstrun)






-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Online presentation, HTML/CSS: Hard Core Examples, 2/7/2024

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

GoLUG meeting showcasing several HTML/CSS hard core examples coming 2/7:

==
What: Online presentation: HTML/CSS: Hard Core Examples
Who: Steve Litt
When: Wednesday 2/7/2024 at 7PM Eastern Standard Time
Where: Jitsi online presentation, https://meet.jit.si/golug [1]
==

FEATURING:
* Two Centering Techniques
* Responsive (fits all screen sizes) web pages without @media:
- Foldunder columns
- Size limited source code boxes that don't walk off the screen
- Scalable images that don't walk off the screen
* Practical slide presentation via HTML/CSS
* Properly placed headers and footers

HTML and CSS are the foundational technology behind all web work,
including Javascript and its derivatives (via the Document Object Model
(DOM)), and language scaffolding such as Rails and Django and even PHP
and old school LAMP. Detailed knowledge of HTML and CSS is valued by
employers and admired by your peers, because learning these
surprisingly easy technologies makes you a web designing and debugging
ninja, regardless of the actual tools you use. Hope to see you there.

SteveT



[1]

Online via Jitsi:
https://meet.jit.si/golug

Mobile app:
https://jitsi.org/downloads/

Desktop app:
https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet-electron/releases

-- 

Steve Litt
GoLUG Publicity Coordinator

Originally founded in Orlando, Florida, United States, GoLUG now
welcomes an international audience for online presentations and
discussions on Linux and adjacent technologies.

http://golug.org

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: IPv6 routing issue with Telegram

[borissh1983]

Hi, 

Can you check the offered cipher using openssl s_client ? 

It could be that there is no suggested cipher or changing suggested cipher 
between ipv4 vs ipv6, (something that can happen with some farms and other load 
balancing systems) . 


On Thursday, 11 January 2024 12:18:24 IST Rabin Yasharzadehe wrote:
> Nice catch,
> 
> IPv4 works, as the moment I remove the address from my interface, I can
> connect to the site.
> From what I can see, it does able to complete the TLS handshake, and I can
> see the certificate.
> And I see the same behavior from inside a container.
> 
> Ping to the address seems to be working, and I don't see any routing issue
> to the destination.
> 
> Issue with telegram service?
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Rabin
> 
> 
> On Wed, 10 Jan 2024 at 07:52, Lior Okman  wrote:
> 
> >
> > Looking at the curl output, it manages to connect using IPv6 and is timing
> > out on the SSL negotiation.
> >
> >
> > Few things to check:
> >
> > - Does this work for you with IPv4?
> > - Can you use "openssl s_client" to see if your environment manages to
> > finish the SSL handshake?
> > - Can you try to connect from inside a Docker container that is using a
> > different base distro?
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lior
> >
> >
> >
> >  On Tue, 09 Jan 2024 13:17:23 +0200 *Rabin Yasharzadehe
> > >* wrote ---
> >
> > Hi list,
> >
> > Can you please help me identify if the issue, is in my end / ISP (Bezeq)
> > and not the service it self.
> >
> > When I try to load telegram web, with IPv6 address, the connection will
> > hang for me.
> >
> >
> > ❯ curl --connect-timeout 3 -Iv6 https://web.telegram.org/
> > * processing: https://web.telegram.org/
> > *   Trying [2001:67c:4e8:f004::9]:443...
> > * Connected to web.telegram.org (2001:67c:4e8:f004::9) port 443
> > * ALPN: offers h2,http/1.1
> > * TLSv1.3 (OUT), TLS handshake, Client hello (1):
> > *  CAfile: /etc/pki/tls/certs/ca-bundle.crt
> > *  CApath: none
> > * SSL connection timeout
> > * Closing connection
> > curl: (28) SSL connection timeout
> >
> >
> > But I don't have this issue with other IPv6 services, like google.com
> >
> > Can you please check on your side? and which ISP are you using?
> >
> > Thanks. Regards
> >
> > --
> > Rabin
> > ___
> > Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> > To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
> >
> >
> >
> 




___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: IPv6 routing issue with Telegram

[Rabin Yasharzadehe]

Nice catch,

IPv4 works, as the moment I remove the address from my interface, I can
connect to the site.
>From what I can see, it does able to complete the TLS handshake, and I can
see the certificate.
And I see the same behavior from inside a container.

Ping to the address seems to be working, and I don't see any routing issue
to the destination.

Issue with telegram service?



--
Rabin


On Wed, 10 Jan 2024 at 07:52, Lior Okman  wrote:

>
> Looking at the curl output, it manages to connect using IPv6 and is timing
> out on the SSL negotiation.
>
>
> Few things to check:
>
> - Does this work for you with IPv4?
> - Can you use "openssl s_client" to see if your environment manages to
> finish the SSL handshake?
> - Can you try to connect from inside a Docker container that is using a
> different base distro?
>
>
> --
> Lior
>
>
>
>  On Tue, 09 Jan 2024 13:17:23 +0200 *Rabin Yasharzadehe
> >* wrote ---
>
> Hi list,
>
> Can you please help me identify if the issue, is in my end / ISP (Bezeq)
> and not the service it self.
>
> When I try to load telegram web, with IPv6 address, the connection will
> hang for me.
>
>
> ❯ curl --connect-timeout 3 -Iv6 https://web.telegram.org/
> * processing: https://web.telegram.org/
> *   Trying [2001:67c:4e8:f004::9]:443...
> * Connected to web.telegram.org (2001:67c:4e8:f004::9) port 443
> * ALPN: offers h2,http/1.1
> * TLSv1.3 (OUT), TLS handshake, Client hello (1):
> *  CAfile: /etc/pki/tls/certs/ca-bundle.crt
> *  CApath: none
> * SSL connection timeout
> * Closing connection
> curl: (28) SSL connection timeout
>
>
> But I don't have this issue with other IPv6 services, like google.com
>
> Can you please check on your side? and which ISP are you using?
>
> Thanks. Regards
>
> --
> Rabin
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
>
>
>
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: IPv6 routing issue with Telegram

[Lior Okman]

Looking at the curl output, it manages to connect using IPv6 and is timing out 
on the SSL negotiation.





Few things to check:



- Does this work for you with IPv4?

- Can you use "openssl s_client" to see if your environment manages to finish 
the SSL handshake?

- Can you try to connect from inside a Docker container that is using a 
different base distro?





--

Lior







 On Tue, 09 Jan 2024 13:17:23 +0200 Rabin Yasharzadehe  
wrote ---



Hi list, 



Can you please help me identify if the issue, is in my end / ISP (Bezeq)

and not the service it self.



When I try to load telegram web, with IPv6 address, the connection will hang 
for me.





❯ curl --connect-timeout 3 -Iv6 https://web.telegram.org/
* processing: https://web.telegram.org/
*   Trying [2001:67c:4e8:f004::9]:443...
* Connected to http://web.telegram.org (2001:67c:4e8:f004::9) port 443
* ALPN: offers h2,http/1.1
* TLSv1.3 (OUT), TLS handshake, Client hello (1):
*  CAfile: /etc/pki/tls/certs/ca-bundle.crt
*  CApath: none
* SSL connection timeout
* Closing connection
curl: (28) SSL connection timeout




But I don't have this issue with other IPv6 services, like http://google.com



Can you please check on your side? and which ISP are you using?



Thanks. Regards



--
Rabin



___

Linux-il mailing list -- mailto:linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il 

To unsubscribe send an email to mailto:linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: IPv6 routing issue with Telegram

[Omer Zak]

I tried both:
curl --connect-timeout 3 -ipv6 https://web.telegram.org/
curl --connect-timeout 3 -Iv6 https://web.telegram.org/
In both cases, the response was prompt.

I am connected to the Internet via Bezeq (as infrastructure provider)
and Partner (as ISP).
I got IPv6 from Partner several months ago, and replaced the router due
to this.

United we shall win,
--- Omer Zak


On Tue, 2024-01-09 at 13:17 +0200, Rabin Yasharzadehe wrote:
> Hi list, 
> 
> Can you please help me identify if the issue, is in my end / ISP
> (Bezeq)
> and not the service it self.
> 
> When I try to load telegram web, with IPv6 address, the connection
> will hang for me.
> 
> ❯ curl --connect-timeout 3 -Iv6 https://web.telegram.org/
> * processing: https://web.telegram.org/
> *   Trying [2001:67c:4e8:f004::9]:443...
> * Connected to web.telegram.org (2001:67c:4e8:f004::9) port 443
> * ALPN: offers h2,http/1.1
> * TLSv1.3 (OUT), TLS handshake, Client hello (1):
> *  CAfile: /etc/pki/tls/certs/ca-bundle.crt
> *  CApath: none
> * SSL connection timeout
> * Closing connection
> curl: (28) SSL connection timeout
> 
> 
> But I don't have this issue with other IPv6 services, like google.com
> 
> Can you please check on your side? and which ISP are you using?
-- 
"Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by
looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made it
possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man." - Walter E.
Williams
My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with
which I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html



___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

IPv6 routing issue with Telegram

[Rabin Yasharzadehe]

Hi list,

Can you please help me identify if the issue, is in my end / ISP (Bezeq)
and not the service it self.

When I try to load telegram web, with IPv6 address, the connection will
hang for me.

❯ curl --connect-timeout 3 -Iv6 https://web.telegram.org/
* processing: https://web.telegram.org/
*   Trying [2001:67c:4e8:f004::9]:443...
* Connected to web.telegram.org (2001:67c:4e8:f004::9) port 443
* ALPN: offers h2,http/1.1
* TLSv1.3 (OUT), TLS handshake, Client hello (1):
*  CAfile: /etc/pki/tls/certs/ca-bundle.crt
*  CApath: none
* SSL connection timeout
* Closing connection
curl: (28) SSL connection timeout


But I don't have this issue with other IPv6 services, like google.com

Can you please check on your side? and which ISP are you using?

Thanks. Regards

--
Rabin
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Online presentation, Making compilers with recursive-descent parse, 1/3/2024

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

GoLUG meeting with compiler construction presentation this coming
Wednesday:

==
What: Online presentation, Making compilers with recursive-descent parse
Who: Hendrik Boom
When: Wednesday 1/3/2024 at 7PM Eastern Standard Time
Where: Jitsi online presentation, https://meet.jit.si/golug [1]
==

At last month's GoLUG meeting we discussed Flex/Bison compiler
construction. Trouble is, debugging Flex/Bison can be difficult. So
at GoLUG's January 3, 2024 online meeting, Hendrik Boom shows us how to
make a recursive-descent parser to create a compiler or converter for a
given language.

Hendrik has made several recursive-descent parser solutions, and says
it's quite easy to hand-code a recursive-descent parser. Wednesday night
he'll show us how to do it for ourselves.

I'm really looking forward to this, and hope to see you there.

SteveT



[1]

Online via Jitsi:
https://meet.jit.si/golug

Mobile app:
https://jitsi.org/downloads/

Desktop app:
https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet-electron/releases

-- 

Steve Litt
GoLUG Publicity Coordinator

Originally founded in Orlando, Florida, United States, GoLUG now
welcomes an international audience for online presentations and
discussions on Linux and adjacent technologies.

http://golug.org

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: HP OfficeJet Pro 8023

[borissh1983]

Air Print is a proprietary solution , which have Open specification and 
implementation. 

Recent OpenPrinting Cups support AirPrint   
https://github.com/OpenPrinting/cups/issues/105[1] , so you could use "Air 
Print" even for devices that do not have Air Print for them (yes, your good old 
dot matrix printer should be able to do Air Print with the proper config on 
cups)
Cups (pre fork) does not support it (I don't think it even maintained now). 

Cups (all versions) support driver-less  printing c.f. 
https://wiki.debian.org/CUPSDriverlessPrinting[2]


On Wednesday, 27 December 2023 8:32:42 IST Shachar Shemesh wrote:






On 27/12/2023 0:25, Oron Peled wrote:






On a separate note, if you buy a printer in the last two years --
look for the "*AirPrint*" logo (and "*AirScan*"
if it has a scanner):



 *  These are Apple brands for "*Driverless*"
printing (and scanning, respectively)


 *  Like some other Apple technologies, these proprietary
implementation has an open specification.





Are you sure it's proprietary? Apple are the ones who developed
CUPS, after all.






[1] https://github.com/OpenPrinting/cups/issues/105
[2] https://wiki.debian.org/CUPSDriverlessPrinting
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: HP OfficeJet Pro 8023

[Shachar Shemesh]

  
  


On 27/12/2023 0:25, Oron Peled wrote:


  
  On a separate note, if you buy a printer in the last two years --
  look for the "AirPrint" logo (and "AirScan"
  if it has a scanner):
  
These are Apple brands for "Driverless"
  printing (and scanning, respectively)
Like some other Apple technologies, these proprietary
  implementation has an open specification.
  

Are you sure it's proprietary? Apple are the ones who developed
CUPS, after all.
  

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: HP OfficeJet Pro 8023

[Oron Peled]

On Sunday, 24 December 2023 10:13:47 IST Shachar Shemesh wrote:
> HP work on Linux using proprietary drivers. It's a mixed bag.

Are you sure?
 *  Their HPLIP[1] suite is developed by HP and are distributed as GPL-2+
 *  I've used several HP printers over the years, mostly with Fedora and 
sometimes from Debian
(for different reasons, both distributions are very careful not to bundle 
proprietary software)
 *  For most reasonable printers in the last years, the word "driver" 
actually refers to PPD file
 *  When configuring HPLIP/CUPS, there is a huge list of available models 
-- here is a small part of Fedora's HPLIP package:
> ...
> /usr/share/ppd/HP/hp-officejet_8010_series.ppd.gz
> /usr/share/ppd/HP/hp-officejet_8020_series.ppd.gz
> /usr/share/ppd/HP/hp-officejet_8040_series.ppd.gz
> /usr/share/ppd/HP/hp-officejet_8700.ppd.gz
> /usr/share/ppd/HP/hp-officejet_9010_series.ppd.gz
> /usr/share/ppd/HP/hp-officejet_9100_series-pcl3.ppd.gz
> /usr/share/ppd/HP/hp-officejet_color_mfp_x585.ppd.gz
> /usr/share/ppd/HP/hp-officejet_color_x555-ps.ppd.gz
> ...
(sometimes I had to pick a model from the same family, because I didn't 
have the exact model number)

 *  Most HP (and other vendors) printers support PCL and/or Postscript/PDF
(on a simple "Jetdirect" port 9100, no special driver)


On a separate note, if you buy a printer in the last two years -- look for the 
"*AirPrint*" logo (and "*AirScan*" if it has a scanner):
 *  These are Apple brands for "*Driverless*" printing (and scanning, 
respectively)
 *  Like some other Apple technologies, these proprietary implementation 
has an open specification.
 *  So if your distribution is modern (Debian-12 "bookworm", cough, cough) 
-- it works out of the box.
 *  A nice bonus is that people can print directly from many Cellphone (not 
only iPhones, also Android)

Bye,

-- 
Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492

Reality must take precedence over public relations, for Mother 
Nature cannot be fooled.  -- R.P. Feynman



[1] https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/hplip
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: HP OfficeJet Pro 8023

[Steve Litt]

Shlomo Solomon said on Sun, 24 Dec 2023 10:07:17 +0200

>Good question. Mainly because I've had good experience with using HP on
>Linux.
>
>On the other hand, HP is notorious for causing problems with
>non-original ink, so maybe I should look elsewhere.
>
>Open to suggestions for an all-in-one that works well on Linux and does
>not try to force you to buy riginal ink.

If you use a "mainstream" Linux like redhat, Ubuntu, Debian and Devuan,
I suggest Brother, because they supply the necessary drivers and other
files via .rpm or .deb.

I use Void Linux, which uses the xbps packaging system, so life with my
Brother all in one is much harder (but doable).

SteveT

Steve Litt 

Autumn 2023 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: HP OfficeJet Pro 8023

[Shlomo Solomon]

About cleaning the printhead - no idea how to do it, but I'll look for
information. In any case, nothing to lose since the printer is 8 years
old so not under warranty.

About not connecting to the internet - YES - that is how I was able to
use non-original ink for 8 years since the firmware was never updated.
I know that firmware update on HP often blocks the use of non-HP ink. 


On Sun, 24 Dec 2023 11:35:47 +0200
borissh1...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi, 
> 
> Before getting rid of the printer, if you are sure it's dead , try
> mechanically cleaning the printhead (never use it on a device that
> have warranty or can be fixed on other options ) . when you clean it
> do not use hot water or solvents, this might damage the printhead,
> ofc it wold kill your warranty. A cloged print head could be the
> source for the failure.
> 
> When dealing with HP , One should only use original ink (I think they
> even had expiration date on them). New HP printers would outright
> block non genuine ink (I think since 2021 )  .
> 
> p.s.
> 
> 1. Please , no matter which printer you buy , only use Offline
> printers , and never connect them to the internet if you would like
> you printer to avoid useless firmware updates like
> https://kevin.deldycke.com/2020/11/revert-hp-printer-ban-on-third-party-ink-cartridges/
> The best option I found so far was to connect HP printers to rpi ,
> that way you always have a network printer (via cups) but you are
> safe from automatic upgrades and security holes.
> 
> 2.
> https://www.techpowerup.com/237048/been-there-done-that-hp-new-firmware-update-locks-non-original-ink-cartridges
> 
> On Sunday, 24 December 2023 1:16:51 IST Shlomo Solomon wrote:
> > Original ink which costs more than the printer (!!!) is not an
> > option. On my existing HP 8610, I used compatible ink for 8 years,
> > so 
> > 
> > 
> > On Sun, 24 Dec 2023 01:11:22 +0200
> > אורי  wrote:
> > 
> > > If you use HP printer I strongly recommend using HP original ink,
> > > which is more expensive but it's the only ink they officially
> > > support.
> > > 
> > > אורי
> > > u...@speedy.net
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Sun, Dec 24, 2023 at 12:23 AM Shlomo Solomon
> > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > My existing HP printer (8610) died after 8 years - does not
> > > > recognize the Magenta ink.
> > > >
> > > > I'm looking at the HP OfficeJet Pro 8023
> > > >
> > > > 2 questions:
> > > >
> > > > 1 - Has anyone had good (or bad) experience with this on Linux?
> > > > I know that HP supports this printer on Linux, but I'm looking
> > > > for first hand experience.
> > > >
> > > > 2 - Any comments about the availability of compatible ink? I
> > > > found ink on several sites, but from experience, know that HP
> > > > printers are sometimes fussy about non-original ink.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Shlomo Solomon
> > > > http://the-solomons.net
> > > > Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
> > > > ___
> > > > Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> > > > To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
> > > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Shlomo Solomon
> > http://the-solomons.net
> > Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
> > ___
> > Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> > To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 



-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: HP OfficeJet Pro 8023

[Shlomo Solomon]

On Sun, 24 Dec 2023 10:13:47 +0200
Shachar Shemesh  wrote:

> If you're willing to spend a little more on the printer itself, there
> are printers where the ink comes in liquid form rather than
> cartridges. If you're doing a lot of printing, they are considerably
> cheaper to operate.
thanks - I know that, but again, not an option since I do not print
enough to make such a printer worthwhile

-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: HP OfficeJet Pro 8023

[borissh1983]

Hi, 

Before getting rid of the printer, if you are sure it's dead , try mechanically 
cleaning the printhead (never use it on a device that have warranty or can be 
fixed on other options ) . when you clean it do not use hot water or solvents, 
this might damage the printhead, ofc it wold kill your warranty. A cloged print 
head could be the source for the failure.

When dealing with HP , One should only use original ink (I think they even had 
expiration date on them).
New HP printers would outright block non genuine ink (I think since 2021 )  .

p.s.

1. Please , no matter which printer you buy , only use Offline printers , and 
never connect them to the internet if you would like you printer to avoid 
useless firmware updates like 
https://kevin.deldycke.com/2020/11/revert-hp-printer-ban-on-third-party-ink-cartridges/
 The best option I found so far was to connect HP printers to rpi , that way 
you always have a network printer (via cups) but you are safe from automatic 
upgrades and security holes.

2. 
https://www.techpowerup.com/237048/been-there-done-that-hp-new-firmware-update-locks-non-original-ink-cartridges

On Sunday, 24 December 2023 1:16:51 IST Shlomo Solomon wrote:
> Original ink which costs more than the printer (!!!) is not an option.
> On my existing HP 8610, I used compatible ink for 8 years, so 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 24 Dec 2023 01:11:22 +0200
> אורי  wrote:
> 
> > If you use HP printer I strongly recommend using HP original ink,
> > which is more expensive but it's the only ink they officially support.
> > 
> > אורי
> > u...@speedy.net
> > 
> > 
> > On Sun, Dec 24, 2023 at 12:23 AM Shlomo Solomon
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > > My existing HP printer (8610) died after 8 years - does not
> > > recognize the Magenta ink.
> > >
> > > I'm looking at the HP OfficeJet Pro 8023
> > >
> > > 2 questions:
> > >
> > > 1 - Has anyone had good (or bad) experience with this on Linux? I
> > > know that HP supports this printer on Linux, but I'm looking for
> > > first hand experience.
> > >
> > > 2 - Any comments about the availability of compatible ink? I found
> > > ink on several sites, but from experience, know that HP printers are
> > > sometimes fussy about non-original ink.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Shlomo Solomon
> > > http://the-solomons.net
> > > Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
> > > ___
> > > Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
> > >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Shlomo Solomon
> http://the-solomons.net
> Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
> 




___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: HP OfficeJet Pro 8023

[Shachar Shemesh]

  
  
HP work on Linux using proprietary drivers. It's a mixed bag.


I've been using Canon for some years now. It works well with
  Linux and somewhat okay with Android. I have not tried buying
  non-original ink.


If you're willing to spend a little more on the printer itself,
  there are printers where the ink comes in liquid form rather than
  cartridges. If you're doing a lot of printing, they are considerably
  cheaper to operate.


On 24/12/2023 10:07, Shlomo Solomon
  wrote:


  Good question. Mainly because I've had good experience with using HP on
Linux.

On the other hand, HP is notorious for causing problems with
non-original ink, so maybe I should look elsewhere.

Open to suggestions for an all-in-one that works well on Linux and does
not try to force you to buy riginal ink.



On Sun, 24 Dec 2023 09:47:25 +0200
Shachar Shemesh  wrote:


  
If I may ask: why the fixation on HP?


On 24/12/2023 0:22, Shlomo Solomon wrote:
My existing HP printer (8610) died after 8 years - does not recognize


  the Magenta ink.

I'm looking at the HP OfficeJet Pro 8023

2 questions:

1 - Has anyone had good (or bad) experience with this on Linux? I
know that HP supports this printer on Linux, but I'm looking for
first hand experience.

2 - Any comments about the availability of compatible ink? I found
ink on several sites, but from experience, know that HP printers are
sometimes fussy about non-original ink.








  
  



  

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: HP OfficeJet Pro 8023

[Shlomo Solomon]

Good question. Mainly because I've had good experience with using HP on
Linux.

On the other hand, HP is notorious for causing problems with
non-original ink, so maybe I should look elsewhere.

Open to suggestions for an all-in-one that works well on Linux and does
not try to force you to buy riginal ink.



On Sun, 24 Dec 2023 09:47:25 +0200
Shachar Shemesh  wrote:

> If I may ask: why the fixation on HP?
> 
> 
> On 24/12/2023 0:22, Shlomo Solomon wrote:
> My existing HP printer (8610) died after 8 years - does not recognize
> > the Magenta ink.
> > 
> > I'm looking at the HP OfficeJet Pro 8023
> > 
> > 2 questions:
> > 
> > 1 - Has anyone had good (or bad) experience with this on Linux? I
> > know that HP supports this printer on Linux, but I'm looking for
> > first hand experience.
> > 
> > 2 - Any comments about the availability of compatible ink? I found
> > ink on several sites, but from experience, know that HP printers are
> > sometimes fussy about non-original ink.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 


-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: HP OfficeJet Pro 8023

[Shachar Shemesh]

  
  
If I may ask: why the fixation on HP?



On 24/12/2023 0:22, Shlomo Solomon
  wrote:


  My existing HP printer (8610) died after 8 years - does not recognize
the Magenta ink.

I'm looking at the HP OfficeJet Pro 8023

2 questions:

1 - Has anyone had good (or bad) experience with this on Linux? I know
that HP supports this printer on Linux, but I'm looking for first hand
experience.

2 - Any comments about the availability of compatible ink? I found ink
on several sites, but from experience, know that HP printers are
sometimes fussy about non-original ink.







  

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: HP OfficeJet Pro 8023

[Rony Shapiro]

Odd. My 8610 died a couple of weeks ago with the exact same failure mode.

Since my home printing needs have changed, and since HP printer's
reputation has been, er, questionable lately, I've switched to a Canon
Pixma G3416. Haven't gotten around to printing via Linux, though.

Rony

On Sun, Dec 24, 2023 at 12:23 AM Shlomo Solomon 
wrote:

> My existing HP printer (8610) died after 8 years - does not recognize
> the Magenta ink.
>
> I'm looking at the HP OfficeJet Pro 8023
>
> 2 questions:
>
> 1 - Has anyone had good (or bad) experience with this on Linux? I know
> that HP supports this printer on Linux, but I'm looking for first hand
> experience.
>
> 2 - Any comments about the availability of compatible ink? I found ink
> on several sites, but from experience, know that HP printers are
> sometimes fussy about non-original ink.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Shlomo Solomon
> http://the-solomons.net
> Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
>


-- 
Ubi dubium, ibi libertas (where there is doubt, there is freedom)
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: HP OfficeJet Pro 8023

[אורי]

They have a policy of printer being very cheap and ink very expensive. They
sell the printer and lose money and expect to make profit on the ink.
אורי
u...@speedy.net


On Sun, Dec 24, 2023 at 1:16 AM Shlomo Solomon 
wrote:

> Original ink which costs more than the printer (!!!) is not an option.
> On my existing HP 8610, I used compatible ink for 8 years, so 
>
>
> On Sun, 24 Dec 2023 01:11:22 +0200
> אורי  wrote:
>
> > If you use HP printer I strongly recommend using HP original ink,
> > which is more expensive but it's the only ink they officially support.
> >
> > אורי
> > u...@speedy.net
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 24, 2023 at 12:23 AM Shlomo Solomon
> >  wrote:
> >
> > > My existing HP printer (8610) died after 8 years - does not
> > > recognize the Magenta ink.
> > >
> > > I'm looking at the HP OfficeJet Pro 8023
> > >
> > > 2 questions:
> > >
> > > 1 - Has anyone had good (or bad) experience with this on Linux? I
> > > know that HP supports this printer on Linux, but I'm looking for
> > > first hand experience.
> > >
> > > 2 - Any comments about the availability of compatible ink? I found
> > > ink on several sites, but from experience, know that HP printers are
> > > sometimes fussy about non-original ink.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Shlomo Solomon
> > > http://the-solomons.net
> > > Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
> > > ___
> > > Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
> > >
>
>
>
> --
> Shlomo Solomon
> http://the-solomons.net
> Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
>
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: HP OfficeJet Pro 8023

[Shlomo Solomon]

Original ink which costs more than the printer (!!!) is not an option.
On my existing HP 8610, I used compatible ink for 8 years, so 


On Sun, 24 Dec 2023 01:11:22 +0200
אורי  wrote:

> If you use HP printer I strongly recommend using HP original ink,
> which is more expensive but it's the only ink they officially support.
> 
> אורי
> u...@speedy.net
> 
> 
> On Sun, Dec 24, 2023 at 12:23 AM Shlomo Solomon
>  wrote:
> 
> > My existing HP printer (8610) died after 8 years - does not
> > recognize the Magenta ink.
> >
> > I'm looking at the HP OfficeJet Pro 8023
> >
> > 2 questions:
> >
> > 1 - Has anyone had good (or bad) experience with this on Linux? I
> > know that HP supports this printer on Linux, but I'm looking for
> > first hand experience.
> >
> > 2 - Any comments about the availability of compatible ink? I found
> > ink on several sites, but from experience, know that HP printers are
> > sometimes fussy about non-original ink.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Shlomo Solomon
> > http://the-solomons.net
> > Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
> > ___
> > Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> > To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
> >



-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: HP OfficeJet Pro 8023

[אורי]

If you use HP printer I strongly recommend using HP original ink, which is
more expensive but it's the only ink they officially support.

אורי
u...@speedy.net


On Sun, Dec 24, 2023 at 12:23 AM Shlomo Solomon 
wrote:

> My existing HP printer (8610) died after 8 years - does not recognize
> the Magenta ink.
>
> I'm looking at the HP OfficeJet Pro 8023
>
> 2 questions:
>
> 1 - Has anyone had good (or bad) experience with this on Linux? I know
> that HP supports this printer on Linux, but I'm looking for first hand
> experience.
>
> 2 - Any comments about the availability of compatible ink? I found ink
> on several sites, but from experience, know that HP printers are
> sometimes fussy about non-original ink.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Shlomo Solomon
> http://the-solomons.net
> Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
>
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

HP OfficeJet Pro 8023

[Shlomo Solomon]

My existing HP printer (8610) died after 8 years - does not recognize
the Magenta ink.

I'm looking at the HP OfficeJet Pro 8023

2 questions:

1 - Has anyone had good (or bad) experience with this on Linux? I know
that HP supports this printer on Linux, but I'm looking for first hand
experience.

2 - Any comments about the availability of compatible ink? I found ink
on several sites, but from experience, know that HP printers are
sometimes fussy about non-original ink.





-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 3.17.5 - KDE Plasma 5.18.5 - Kubuntu 20.04
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: RMS

[borissh1983]

On Wednesday, 13 December 2023 14:30:37 IST Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > In the view of Lifnei iver,
> > 
> > Recently RMS had shared an alleged PFLP affiliated  organization calls to 
> > prevent arms deals to Israel, PFLP  participated in the Simhat torah 
> > massacre.  
> > https://www.stallman.org/archives/2023-sep-dec.html#9_December_2023_(Legal_challenges_over_arms_exports)
> > The organisation had excused the perpetrators of the Simhat Torah  
> > massacre.  https://www.alhaq.org/advocacy/21800.html . 
> > 
> > For my understanding RMS is actively assisting to the other side during the 
> > war against Israel.
> 
> I suggest to write to him 

That would be a second Lifnei iver case in the same thread.

IANAL, and because of that at this stage, I believe  it is better to speak with 
someone who is well versed with the Israeli criminal law before suggestion such 
kind of action or following this advice. 


___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: RMS

[Marc Volovic (me)]

RMS (besides being a rather egregious person in general) is, in this case, 
neither supporting nor not supporting anyone's enemies.

He's calling to reduce arms sales to a state that engages in wholesale 
slaughter of civillians, just like its enemies.
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: RMS

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: borissh1...@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:48:13 +0200
> Message-ID-Hash: W5NHGXQZJVMKFFHYYY5PG4X74ONPMXEH
> 
> In the view of Lifnei iver,
> 
> Recently RMS had shared an alleged PFLP affiliated  organization calls to 
> prevent arms deals to Israel, PFLP  participated in the Simhat torah 
> massacre.  
> https://www.stallman.org/archives/2023-sep-dec.html#9_December_2023_(Legal_challenges_over_arms_exports)
> The organisation had excused the perpetrators of the Simhat Torah  massacre.  
> https://www.alhaq.org/advocacy/21800.html . 
> 
> For my understanding RMS is actively assisting to the other side during the 
> war against Israel.

I don't see how you understood that from a single line of text which
just conveys a simple fact: an action done by PFLP.  Maybe RMS does
what you think, maybe he doesn't; to know for sure, I suggest to write
to him and ask him to make his standpoint on this clear.  Assuming
that he is "actively assisting to the other side during the war
against Israel" on such weak evidence runs the risk of making false
accusations.

And that is even before we consider the possibility that maybe he is
with us wrt whether ours is a just cause, but disagrees with the
actual methods and tactics.

All of that should be cleared up by asking him a direct question.  I
know him well enough to assure you that you will get a direct answer.
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: RMS

[borissh1983]

In the view of Lifnei iver,

Recently RMS had shared an alleged PFLP affiliated  organization calls to 
prevent arms deals to Israel, PFLP  participated in the Simhat torah massacre.  
https://www.stallman.org/archives/2023-sep-dec.html#9_December_2023_(Legal_challenges_over_arms_exports)
The organisation had excused the perpetrators of the Simhat Torah  massacre.  
https://www.alhaq.org/advocacy/21800.html . 

For my understanding RMS is actively assisting to the other side during the war 
against Israel.

People should do with that information what they like. 

> On Wed, May 18, 2022, 15:31  wrote:
> 
> > Hi Julian.
> >
> > On Wednesday, 18 May 2022 17:43:47 IDT Julian Daich wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >RMS is coming to Tel Aviv. I am receving him. He is looking for a place to
> > >give  a prentation in a mayor university on Msy 31 st or June 1st. Is
> > there
> > >here somebody from TAU or HUJI that can help to organize it? He will no
> > >chsrge for his talk.
> >
> > Given RMS's actions in recent years,  I would have checked  with  someone
> > who is familiar with the local law, if having direct connection, or
> > assisting  RMS is not a liability or against the law.
> >
> > IANAL.
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Linux-il mailing list
> > Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
> >
> 




___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Reminder: GoLUG compiler theory presentations Wednesday, 12/6/2023

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

This email is both a reminder of the meeting's who, what, where
and when, and a progress report on my presentation and David's.
First the meeting details:

==
What: Online presentation, Computer language and compiler construction
Who: GoLUG's Steve Litt and David Billsbrough
When: Wednesday 12/6/2023 at 7PM Eastern Standard Time
NOTE: We will start PROMPTLY at 7:00PM EXACTLY!
Where: Jitsi online presentation, https://meet.jit.si/golug [1]
==

David and I have both made astonishing progress. David's ready to give
you the nuts and bolts understandings about the compiler creation
process, including Parse Trees and other stuff way above my pay grade.

As for my presentation on Backus-Naur Format (BNF) and Flex/Bison
compilers and converters, over a week ago I realized that online docs
for Flex and Bison were usually contradictory, incomplete and/or
ambiguous. They were all written by very smart people who forgot what
it was like to know nothing, not even the key understandings necessary
for newbies.

The "Flex & Bison" book I ordered has not arrived, but judging from the
first four chapters, which are are available online, this book is too
ambiguous for a newbie and it doesn't give enough emphasis to the fact
that, for a real compiler, converter or Domain Specific Language (DSL),
Flex and Bison are a package deal, and that Bison-only and Lex-only
examples are so contrived and misleading as to be learning
disadvantages.

ChatGPT is somewhat helpful, but can take you down dead end rabbit
holes because it frames its guesses as facts, and even responds to the
same question differently depending on which websites it scrapes first.
I found ChatGPT to be a great resource for hearing relevant
terminology, which I can then look up with web searches or queries on
mailing lists. Speaking of mailing lists, they're great, but only when
you know what question you want to ask and how to frame the question,
and until you have several key understandings and know a little
vocabulary, you just can't gain the benefits of mailing lists.

At the meeting I'll showcase a Lex/Bison "Hello World" (proof of
concept) that actually serves as a first step to learning how to build
compilers, converters and DSLs. This Hello World can be used to
incrementally learn and build more complex compilers, converters and
DSLs. Also, while you see and listen to my presentation, you'll acquire
the key understandings necessary to learn in a straightforward manner,
without gratuitous dead ends and inability to frame a question. While
you see and listen to my presentation, you'll also understand using BNF
to define a grammar. A grammar is a set of rules determining valid
syntax. This is a good thing because when David gives his presentation,
you'll need these key understandings to benefit from his nuts and bolts
description of compiler construction. 

If you've wondered how people build new computer languages, compilers,
interpreters, markup languages with converters, or even Domain Specific
Languages (DSLs), this introductory presentation will de-mystify the
topic.

I think David's and my presentations will be valued and remembered
fondly by anyone who has ever been curious about how computer languages
and compilers are made. I hope to see you there.



[1]

Online via Jitsi:
https://meet.jit.si/golug

Mobile app:
https://jitsi.org/downloads/

Desktop app:
https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet-electron/releases

-- 

Steve Litt
GoLUG Publicity Coordinator

Originally founded in Orlando, Florida, United States, GoLUG now
welcomes an international audience for online presentations and
discussions on Linux and adjacent technologies.

http://golug.org

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Computer language and compiler construction presentation, 12/6/2023, 7PM Eastern Standard Time

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

GoLUG meeting with compiler construction presentation this coming
Wednesday:

==
What: Online presentation, Computer language and compiler construction
Who: GoLUG's Steve Litt and David Billsbrough
When: Wednesday 12/6/2023 at 7PM Eastern Standard Time
Where: Jitsi online presentation, https://meet.jit.si/golug [1]
==

If you've wondered how people build new computer languages, compilers,
interpreters, markup languages with converters, or even Domain Specific
Languages (DSLs), this introductory presentation will de-mystify the
topic.

I (Steve Litt), will start off by showcasing the basics of Backus-Naur
Format (BNF), a notation format that aids greatly in compiler and
sophisticated markup converter program. Next, I'll briefly go over the
scanner>parser compiler/converter methodology, Using Flex (Fast Lexx)
for the scanner and Bison (yacc superset) for the parser. The
scanner reads the source code or markup, converting it to tokens and
strings for the parser. The parser reads the source and outputs the
converts the tokens and strings into a program (if compiler) or a
different kind of markup (if a converter).

 NOTE: The preceding is a slight oversimplification because Flex and
 Bison actually create C code that compiles into the scanner and parser,
 but from a conceptual standpoint my preceding description is good
 enough.

I'll then show you a trivial Flex/Bison converter that takes a text
file whose paragraphs are separated by one or more blank lines, and
turns the file into HTML. This would have been much easier to do with a
20 line Python program, but it's a very simple way to demonstrate the
Bison/Flex scanner/parser method, and when things get complicated,
trying to do the compiler or converter with Python becomes a real mess.
I know, I've tried three times to write a Python converter program
as a straightforward Python program, while attempting to make my Stylz
authoring language. I tried it 3 times, and could never even complete a
subset of Stylz conversion..

My part of the presentation takes about an hour and I'll start right at
7PM.

Next comes David Billsbrough, who is working to create a compiler for a
Pascal subset. He'll also discuss not only Flex>Bison, but doing
it straight from Python or C or whatever, thus showcasing the
real theory behind compilation. David's presentation shows some heavy
theory and non-trivial constructions. I'm sure you'll have plenty of
questions for David.

If you ever wondered how people make computer languages and then
compilers, interpreters or converters for that language, this
presentation will shed plenty of light on the subject. And if you're
already a compiler making ninja, I think you'll enjoy David's part of
the presentation. A good time will be had by all.


[1]

Online via Jitsi:
https://meet.jit.si/golug

Mobile app:
https://jitsi.org/downloads/

Desktop app:
https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet-electron/releases

-- 

Steve Litt
GoLUG Publicity Coordinator

Originally founded in Orlando, Florida, United States, GoLUG now
welcomes an international audience for online presentations and
discussions on Linux and adjacent technologies.

http://golug.org

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: How to image a linux computer

[Michael Shiloh]

Thanks Shay

On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 3:56 PM Shay Gover  wrote:

> Use clonezilla.
> Before cloning:
> 1) Remove gpu drivers
> 2) Remove microcode package
> 3) You might need to change partition id or disk id in the bootloader.
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 1:50 PM Michael Shiloh 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Ori and Shimi; I've forwarded your suggestions to my friend.
>>
>> Your help is much appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 3:16 PM shimi  wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 9:35 AM Michael Shiloh <
>>> michaelshiloh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Hello all,

 Situation: We have a linux computer with various software installed on
 old hardware that may malfunction and be unsupported. To mitigate this
 risk, we would like to make an image of this machine so that we can run it
 in a virtual machine.

 How do we do this?


>>> Beyond what has been suggested before me on this thread, you can also
>>> rescue-boot both the old and the new system that has a disk
>>> same-size-or-larger, and just bit-copy the hard drive as a whole (including
>>> partition table) over the network, without passing through an 'image'
>>> stage. You can either do so securely (but slower) over SSH, or in plaintext
>>> if your network is secure (using netcat). See:
>>> https://www.thegeekdiary.com/how-to-clone-linux-disk-partition-over-network-using-dd/
>>> .
>>>
>>> Note: The above tutorial suggests using compression when SSH is not
>>> involved (not sure why the difference in approaches), which you may wish to
>>> consider removing from the pipeline, especially if cloning over fast LAN -
>>> as there's a good chance that the compression, which /may/ not reduce the
>>> data volume transferred much (unless you're looking at lots of space that
>>> is filled with a static pattern like zeros) and the CPU may become the
>>> bottleneck instead of the network, and then, מה הועילו חכמים בתקנתם?
>>>
>>> DISCLAIMER: Make sure you understand what you do, so you'll not by
>>> mistake write TO the source disk from the target (or from nowhere...),
>>> overwriting all your data. :) I would say it wouldn't be a problem if you
>>> kept backups, but the original question suggests that one may not be
>>> available in this case... so, be careful. As a rule of thumb, the dd _of=_
>>> parameter on the _SOURCE_ should NEVER point to anything local, and quite
>>> frankly, should NEVER appear on the source altogether...
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>>
>>> -- Shimi
>>>
>> ___
>> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
>>
>
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: How to image a linux computer

[Shay Gover]

Use clonezilla.
Before cloning:
1) Remove gpu drivers
2) Remove microcode package
3) You might need to change partition id or disk id in the bootloader.


On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 1:50 PM Michael Shiloh 
wrote:

> Thanks Ori and Shimi; I've forwarded your suggestions to my friend.
>
> Your help is much appreciated.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 3:16 PM shimi  wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 9:35 AM Michael Shiloh <
>> michaelshiloh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> Situation: We have a linux computer with various software installed on
>>> old hardware that may malfunction and be unsupported. To mitigate this
>>> risk, we would like to make an image of this machine so that we can run it
>>> in a virtual machine.
>>>
>>> How do we do this?
>>>
>>>
>> Beyond what has been suggested before me on this thread, you can also
>> rescue-boot both the old and the new system that has a disk
>> same-size-or-larger, and just bit-copy the hard drive as a whole (including
>> partition table) over the network, without passing through an 'image'
>> stage. You can either do so securely (but slower) over SSH, or in plaintext
>> if your network is secure (using netcat). See:
>> https://www.thegeekdiary.com/how-to-clone-linux-disk-partition-over-network-using-dd/
>> .
>>
>> Note: The above tutorial suggests using compression when SSH is not
>> involved (not sure why the difference in approaches), which you may wish to
>> consider removing from the pipeline, especially if cloning over fast LAN -
>> as there's a good chance that the compression, which /may/ not reduce the
>> data volume transferred much (unless you're looking at lots of space that
>> is filled with a static pattern like zeros) and the CPU may become the
>> bottleneck instead of the network, and then, מה הועילו חכמים בתקנתם?
>>
>> DISCLAIMER: Make sure you understand what you do, so you'll not by
>> mistake write TO the source disk from the target (or from nowhere...),
>> overwriting all your data. :) I would say it wouldn't be a problem if you
>> kept backups, but the original question suggests that one may not be
>> available in this case... so, be careful. As a rule of thumb, the dd _of=_
>> parameter on the _SOURCE_ should NEVER point to anything local, and quite
>> frankly, should NEVER appear on the source altogether...
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> -- Shimi
>>
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il
>
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: How to image a linux computer

[Michael Shiloh]

Thanks Ori and Shimi; I've forwarded your suggestions to my friend.

Your help is much appreciated.



On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 3:16 PM shimi  wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 9:35 AM Michael Shiloh 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Situation: We have a linux computer with various software installed on
>> old hardware that may malfunction and be unsupported. To mitigate this
>> risk, we would like to make an image of this machine so that we can run it
>> in a virtual machine.
>>
>> How do we do this?
>>
>>
> Beyond what has been suggested before me on this thread, you can also
> rescue-boot both the old and the new system that has a disk
> same-size-or-larger, and just bit-copy the hard drive as a whole (including
> partition table) over the network, without passing through an 'image'
> stage. You can either do so securely (but slower) over SSH, or in plaintext
> if your network is secure (using netcat). See:
> https://www.thegeekdiary.com/how-to-clone-linux-disk-partition-over-network-using-dd/
> .
>
> Note: The above tutorial suggests using compression when SSH is not
> involved (not sure why the difference in approaches), which you may wish to
> consider removing from the pipeline, especially if cloning over fast LAN -
> as there's a good chance that the compression, which /may/ not reduce the
> data volume transferred much (unless you're looking at lots of space that
> is filled with a static pattern like zeros) and the CPU may become the
> bottleneck instead of the network, and then, מה הועילו חכמים בתקנתם?
>
> DISCLAIMER: Make sure you understand what you do, so you'll not by mistake
> write TO the source disk from the target (or from nowhere...), overwriting
> all your data. :) I would say it wouldn't be a problem if you kept backups,
> but the original question suggests that one may not be available in this
> case... so, be careful. As a rule of thumb, the dd _of=_ parameter on the
> _SOURCE_ should NEVER point to anything local, and quite frankly, should
> NEVER appear on the source altogether...
>
> HTH,
>
> -- Shimi
>
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: How to image a linux computer

[shimi]

On Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 9:35 AM Michael Shiloh 
wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Situation: We have a linux computer with various software installed on old
> hardware that may malfunction and be unsupported. To mitigate this risk, we
> would like to make an image of this machine so that we can run it in a
> virtual machine.
>
> How do we do this?
>
>
Beyond what has been suggested before me on this thread, you can also
rescue-boot both the old and the new system that has a disk
same-size-or-larger, and just bit-copy the hard drive as a whole (including
partition table) over the network, without passing through an 'image'
stage. You can either do so securely (but slower) over SSH, or in plaintext
if your network is secure (using netcat). See:
https://www.thegeekdiary.com/how-to-clone-linux-disk-partition-over-network-using-dd/
.

Note: The above tutorial suggests using compression when SSH is not
involved (not sure why the difference in approaches), which you may wish to
consider removing from the pipeline, especially if cloning over fast LAN -
as there's a good chance that the compression, which /may/ not reduce the
data volume transferred much (unless you're looking at lots of space that
is filled with a static pattern like zeros) and the CPU may become the
bottleneck instead of the network, and then, מה הועילו חכמים בתקנתם?

DISCLAIMER: Make sure you understand what you do, so you'll not by mistake
write TO the source disk from the target (or from nowhere...), overwriting
all your data. :) I would say it wouldn't be a problem if you kept backups,
but the original question suggests that one may not be available in this
case... so, be careful. As a rule of thumb, the dd _of=_ parameter on the
_SOURCE_ should NEVER point to anything local, and quite frankly, should
NEVER appear on the source altogether...

HTH,

-- Shimi
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: How to image a linux computer

[Michael Shiloh]

Thank you Shachar and Eli, these suggestions are very helpful.

On Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 1:24 PM Eli Billauer  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> A somewhat different approach is to copy the entire filesystem into a
> new computer, and run the old operating system in parallel with the new
> one.
>
> I'm doing this myself, and this approach works surprisingly well:
>
> https://billauer.co.il/blog/2018/11/linux-chroot-system-in-parallel/
>
> And when I say that it works, I mean that some of the system's services
> still belong to the old OS. For example, the DHCP server on the machine
> that I write this mail on belongs to Fedora 12. Why? Because I never had
> a good reason to replace it with the current system's.
>
> The obvious advantage is that the transition to the new computer can be
> gradual. At some point, you'll just turn off the old computer because
> everything runs fine on the new one.
>
> So all you need is tar.
>
> The drawback that I can see with a full image of the old system (except
> for the obvious waste of disk space) is that the old kernel may not be
> compatible with the virtual machine. Which can be solved by installing a
> newer kernel. But then, why bother running a full virtual machine? You
> might as well use chroot. Which brings me back to my original suggestion.
>
> Regards,
> Eli
>
> On 04/11/2023 9:34, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Situation: We have a linux computer with various software installed on
> > old hardware that may malfunction and be unsupported. To mitigate this
> > risk, we would like to make an image of this machine so that we can run
> > it in a virtual machine.
> >
> > How do we do this?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Michael
>
>
>
> --
> Web: http://www.billauer.co.il
>
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: How to image a linux computer

[Eli Billauer]

Hello,

A somewhat different approach is to copy the entire filesystem into a 
new computer, and run the old operating system in parallel with the new one.


I'm doing this myself, and this approach works surprisingly well:

https://billauer.co.il/blog/2018/11/linux-chroot-system-in-parallel/

And when I say that it works, I mean that some of the system's services 
still belong to the old OS. For example, the DHCP server on the machine 
that I write this mail on belongs to Fedora 12. Why? Because I never had 
a good reason to replace it with the current system's.


The obvious advantage is that the transition to the new computer can be 
gradual. At some point, you'll just turn off the old computer because 
everything runs fine on the new one.


So all you need is tar.

The drawback that I can see with a full image of the old system (except 
for the obvious waste of disk space) is that the old kernel may not be 
compatible with the virtual machine. Which can be solved by installing a 
newer kernel. But then, why bother running a full virtual machine? You 
might as well use chroot. Which brings me back to my original suggestion.


Regards,
   Eli

On 04/11/2023 9:34, Michael Shiloh wrote:

Hello all,

Situation: We have a linux computer with various software installed on 
old hardware that may malfunction and be unsupported. To mitigate this 
risk, we would like to make an image of this machine so that we can run 
it in a virtual machine.


How do we do this?

Thanks,
Michael




--
Web: http://www.billauer.co.il
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: How to image a linux computer

[Shachar Shemesh]

  
  
1. Write down the partitioning info (which directories are
  mounted under which partition)
2. mount each partition that holds data (i.e. - not sysfs and
  proc) separately, and tar it. Make sure to grab partitions that
  have other partitions cover them (/dev)

3. Partition new drive in similar separation (not necessary)
4. Extract your tars there.
5. Adjust /etc/fstab as necessary (it may contain UUIDs, that
  have now changed)
6. Use bootable media to boot, mount this somewhere, chroot in,
  make sure you have sys, proc and sufficient of /dev (you can bind
  mount the host's dev)
7. Reinstall GRUB
8. Regenerate the initramfs (should be a script to do that)



That's it. It should boot just fine.


Shachar



On 04/11/2023 9:34, Michael Shiloh
  wrote:


  
  Hello all,


Situation: We have a linux computer with various software
  installed on old hardware that may malfunction and be
  unsupported. To mitigate this risk, we would like to make an
  image of this machine so that we can run it in a virtual
  machine.


How do we do this?


Thanks,
Michael
  
  
  
  ___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il


  

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: How to image a linux computer

[Omer Zak]

Hello Michael,

1. run 'dd' on the old computer's disk and transfer the output to a
disk image file in a modern computer. How to do it depends upon ability
to connect external hardware (such as a network card, a disk with
modern interface, or a DiskOnKey).

2. Write down old computer's BIOS settings having to do with hardware
configuration.

3. Write down which peripherals your old computer has and their
configuration (such as interrupt number and I/O address).

4. Check your virtual machine hypervisor's configuration options to see
how to configure your virtual machine to emulate the exact same
hardware. Consult your records of BIOS settings and peripherals.

5. In your new computer, loop-mount the disk image file and configure
the virtual machine to access it. See, for example:
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/316401/how-to-mount-a-disk-image-from-the-command-line

Remember that old Linux versions (1.*, 2.*) are not as smart in auto-
discovery of hardware configurations as more recent ones.

More precise instructions depend upon the exact hardware and Linux
version you have.

United, we shall win,
--- Omer Zak



On Sat, 2023-11-04 at 11:34 +0400, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> Situation: We have a linux computer with various software installed
> on old hardware that may malfunction and be unsupported. To mitigate
> this risk, we would like to make an image of this machine so that we
> can run it in a virtual machine.
> 
> How do we do this?
-- 
In civilized societies, captions are as important in movies as
soundtracks, professional photography and expert editing.
My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with
which I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

How to image a linux computer

[Michael Shiloh]

Hello all,

Situation: We have a linux computer with various software installed on old
hardware that may malfunction and be unsupported. To mitigate this risk, we
would like to make an image of this machine so that we can run it in a
virtual machine.

How do we do this?

Thanks,
Michael
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Meeting time correction: Autodidacticism with ChatGPT

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

Tonight's presentation, Autodidacticism with ChatGPT, is at 7:00 PM
Eastern Daylight time. Please disregard any conflicting information.

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt
GoLUG Publicity Coordinator
___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Reminder: Autodidacticism with ChatGPT, 10/4/2023

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

What: Online presentation, Autodidacticism with ChatGPT
Who: Presented by Syeed Ali (http://syeedali.com)
When: Wednesday 10/4/2023 at 18:00 UTC-4 (7PM Eastern Daylight time)
Where: Jitsi online presentation, https://meet.jit.si/golug [1]

Autodidacticism with ChatGPT

ChatGPT is a free AI text tool.  You will learn to leverage it to
better understand and solve problems.

- Mindset and techniques
- Programming/scripting
- Creativity and brainstorming
- Autodidacticism and general learning
- Philosophies and limitations

Syeed has used ChatGPT in various ways such as:

Learning:

- Making a yard low-maintenance
- How to befriend a crow
- Music recommendations

Creative writing:

- World building
- Character creation and evolution throughout a story
- Dialog from multiple perspectives
- Pivot ChatGPT to become any of:  Itself, a publisher, an editor, a
  writer, or a character

Programming and computers, with no relevant experience:

- Converting a user's emails into a mailman mailing list (some Python)
- Modifying WordPress using PHP snippets
- Global search-replace in a MySQL database

The presentation will be a usage deep dive ending with a live
demonstration using an audience suggestion.


[1]

Online via Jitsi:
https://meet.jit.si/golug

Mobile app:
https://jitsi.org/downloads/

Desktop app:
https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet-electron/releases

-- 

Originally founded in Orlando, Florida, United States, GoLUG welcomes an
international audience for presentations and discussions on Linux and
adjacent technologies.

http://golug.org

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

Autodidacticism with ChatGPT, 10/4/2023

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

What: Online presentation, Autodidacticism with ChatGPT
Who: Presented by Syeed Ali (http://syeedali.com)
When: Wednesday 10/4/2023 at 18:00 UTC-4 (7PM Eastern Daylight time)
Where: Jitsi online presentation, https://meet.jit.si/golug [1]

Autodidacticism with ChatGPT

ChatGPT is a free AI text tool.  You will learn to leverage it to
better understand and solve problems.

- Mindset and techniques
- Programming/scripting
- Creativity and brainstorming
- Autodidacticism and general learning
- Philosophies and limitations

Syeed has used ChatGPT in various ways such as:

Learning:

- Making a yard low-maintenance
- How to befriend a crow
- Music recommendations

Creative writing:

- World building
- Character creation and evolution throughout a story
- Dialog from multiple perspectives
- Pivot ChatGPT to become any of:  Itself, a publisher, an editor, a
  writer, or a character

Programming and computers, with no relevant experience:

- Converting a user's emails into a mailman mailing list (some Python)
- Modifying WordPress using PHP snippets
- Global search-replace in a MySQL database

The presentation will be a usage deep dive ending with a live
demonstration using an audience suggestion.


[1]

Online via Jitsi:
https://meet.jit.si/golug

Mobile app:
https://jitsi.org/downloads/

Desktop app:
https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet-electron/releases

-- 

Originally founded in Orlando, Florida, United States, GoLUG welcomes an
international audience for presentations and discussions on Linux and
adjacent technologies.

http://golug.org

___
Linux-il mailing list -- linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
To unsubscribe send an email to linux-il-le...@cs.huji.ac.il

GoLUG: Ten Lesser Known HTML Elements You Might Find Handy, 9/6/2023

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

On Wednesday, 9/6/2023, at 7:00 PM Eastern Daylight time, GoLUG's
monthly online meeting features ten lesser known HTML elements you
might find handy.

As you know, many HTML elements were added with HTML Version 5 (HTML5),
and many are handy either because they make the HTML more readable and
semantic, they make the HTML less wordy, they add new features, or
combinations of the above.

At this GoLUG meeting, Steve Litt will detail ten very handy less used
elements, as well as revealing some elements he considers useless
clunkers. Also discussed will be some handy element.class combinations.
Examples of styling of such combinations and elements in CSS

The presentation will begin with a very short discussion on Styles
Based Authoring: What is it, what is it good for, and how do you do it.
We'll then move into the elements themselves.

What: GoLUG: Ten Lesser Known HTML Elements You Might Find Handy
When: Wednesday, 9/6/2023 at 7:00 PM Eastern time
Where: https://meet.jit.si/golug
Duration: Ends at 9PM, with optional general bull session after.

GoLUG is Greater Orlando Linux User Group. It's been around since 2004,
and just before the Pandemic we switched from being a local LUG to
being a worldwide LUG with online Jitsi meetings.

If you'd like to join GoLUG's mailing list, just go to
http://golug.org/mailman/listinfo/golug_golug.org and fill out the
standard mailman form.

I hope to see you at the meeting and on our mailing list.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
Publicity Coordinator
Greater Orlando Linux User Group (GOLUG)

___
Linux-il mailing list
Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il

GoLUG meeting correction

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

Tonight's GoLUG meeting is at https://meet.jit.si/golug

The three topics are Steve Litt's reminder system, Sy Ali facilitates
Linux/LUG future, and David Billsbrough's coding philosophy.

Sorry the meeting location was left out of the previous email.


SteveT

GoLUG Publicity Coordinator

___
Linux-il mailing list
Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il

Web host discussion, 8/2/2023

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

Tonight (8/2/2023) at 7:00 Eastern Daylight time, GoLUG's monthly
online meeting features a short presentation by Steve Litt about his
home-grown Python based reminder/calendar system. Sy Ali will facilitate
an audience-wide discussion of the future of Linux and Linux User
Groups. Last but not least, David Billsbrough will give a very short
presentation on his coding philosophy. David has vast experience in
Python, Perl, Lua, Pascal, and several other languages.

If you'd like to join GoLUG's mailing list, just go to
http://golug.org/mailman/listinfo/golug_golug.org and fill out the
standard mailman form.

I hope to see you at the meeting and on our mailing list.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
Publicity Coordinator
Greater Orlando Linux User Group (GOLUG)

___
Linux-il mailing list
Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il

Re: .il domain names with IPv6 support

[Ori Idan]

I think like Uri, I don't see any reason to use registrar name server, use
any DNS service you like. You just need the DNS URL to register with the
registrar.
I use DigitalOcean, I have few virtual machines there and use their free
DNS service.

-- 
Ori Idan CEO Helicon Books
http://www.heliconbooks.com





‪On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 8:53 AM ‫אורי‬‎  wrote:‬

> Hi Gabor,
>
> I also use https://www.box.co.il/ and you can put any name servers you
> want, I usually don't use the same company as a registrar and for name
> servers - I use different companies. I would recommend either AWS route 53
> (not expensive) or also DigitalOcean - if you have an account then name
> servers are free, I think you don't have to have droplets with them
> (although I do) and also you can try Linode or Vultr (I never tried these
> two companies' name servers). Or use the name servers of your hosting
> provider.
>
> Thanks,
> Uri.
> אורי
> u...@speedy.net
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 8:34 AM Gabor Szabo  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have been using BOX ( https://box.co.il/ ) for my .il domains and for
>> DNS. Apparently their DNS server still does not support IPv6.  So far it
>> did not bother me too much, but now that I am trying to move a domain to
>> use GitHub pages it seems that they require that configuration as well.
>>
>> So my question what do you suggest as a domain registrar for .il domains
>> that has a reasonable DNS interface that also supports IPv6. Alternatively,
>> what DNS provider do you use?
>>
>> (for my com/org names I use https://iwantmyname.com/ and I am quite
>> satisfied)
>>
>> regards
>> Gabor
>>
>> --
>> Gabor Szabohttps://szabgab.com/ 
>>
>> ___
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
___
Linux-il mailing list
Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il