Re: Gnucash annual reports for Israel
Quoting Geoffrey S. Mendelson, from the post of Sun, 06 Apr: On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 09:42:01AM +0300, Omer Zak wrote: Omer, 2. How to get the accounts notarized (or whatever) by a CPA? I don't think you would want to. In order for YOU to enter the data into an apporoved accounting program, you must be a level 3 (as in 1 is the lowest) certified bookkeeper. no certification needed to use Hashavshevet, no certification needed to submit the annual and bimonthly reports of a self-employed individual. those rules you are talking about affect only corporations (Khavarot Reshumot with khet-pe or khet-tzadi, not Osek Murshe) If you use an alternate method of entering the data and keeping the books, or you are not certified, you can not legally submit the data to the tax authorities. the final report is done on paper anyway, not a floppy, at least by my CPA, and therefore it's manually copied to a form anyway. I can take the same form and fill it up and submit it myself, the Tax authority even gives free classes each year to Oskim Murshim that want to file the report on their own and save a few thousand shekels on a CPA. I chose to use a CPA because e saves me money of return that I would not know how, and because I trust him with papers more than myself, certainly worth spending 2200 NIS once a year (plus VAT :-) to be calm that the Tax shmucks don't come hunting your PERSONAL derierre if any excrement is flung towards the ventilation system. I call that insurrance, and it's fully tax deductable too. For best results and less cost, you can submit your data to them in a format they can import the data into their program. From what I understand all the approved programs can read .xls (Exel format) spreadsheets. that means nothing of course. if I don't submit the data in the correct cells, the file format can be Qtext for all they care. They still have to copy the totals from the Excell into Hashavshevet, unless the government allows you to download approved Excell templates for accounting. I haven't seen one, but I haven't looked. -- Totally wasetd Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gnucash annual reports for Israel
On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 8:23 PM, Ira Abramov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I chose to use a CPA because e saves me money of return that I would not know how, and because I trust him with papers more than myself, certainly worth spending 2200 NIS once a year (plus VAT :-) to be calm that the Tax shmucks don't come hunting your PERSONAL derierre if any excrement is flung towards the ventilation system. I call that insurrance, and it's fully tax deductable too. Uhh yah! You can say THAT again! A few years after I stopped being an Osek Murshe and closed my files (all done through a trusty CPA), Mas Hachnasa called me up to explain how come I reported only half of my income. When I came to second meeting with my CPA it turned out that the stupid paper-pusher in Mas Hachnasa doesn't know how to read VAT and Income reports added them together to get a total of twice my reported income. With a CPA next to me who could tell the schmuck exactly that and scare him a bit because his ex-boss is now a client of my CPA I got out of there unscathed. Sheeesh. :-) (*wiping the sweat from my forehead*) I lost all respect to Mas Hachnasa after that (and I DID have some respect to their work until then). --Amos When the shit hits the fan - make sure you tape it = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gnucash annual reports for Israel
Yuval Hager wrote: On Sunday 06 April 2008, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: All the data in Codefidence is entered by a non certified bookkeeper (but into an approved program) and Ernest Young, our auditors, found no fault in this procedure. May I ask which program you use? Is it available for Linux? I'm ashamed to say that we use Hashashevet on Windows, accessed via VNC. There was no approved program Free Software at the time when we purchased it and even then our needs exceeded the capacity of then existing web services and I suspect it still the same today. I'm glad to see Drorit doing well. Perhaps some day we could consider migration. Gilad -- Gilad Ben-Yossef Chief Coffee Drinker Codefidence Ltd. The code is free, your time isn't.(TM) Web:http://codefidence.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Office: +972-8-9316883 ext. 201 Fax:+972-8-9316885 Mobile: +972-52-8260388 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gnucash annual reports for Israel
We have been using a DOS based program running under dosemu for the last few years. It works fine and makes the accountant happy. David Suna [EMAIL PROTECTED] Omer Zak wrote: I have been using an accounting program running in MS-DOS (!), but now (due to reasons into which I'll not go now) I am faced with either going back to fully manual method or switching to a Linux based accounting program. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gnucash annual reports for Israel
Hi list, It's that time of year again (for submitting fiscal reports). This year I have everything under gnucash though! I was wondering what is the best way to file the reports to the accountant. Assuming he does not know or care about the software - What reports should I create and send to him? I know Gnucash reports are US oriented, and have no idea which ones apply to Israel. Thanks, -- Yuval Hager [T] +972-77-341-4155 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Gnucash annual reports for Israel
If we are at this subject, can anyone, who has experience with using GNUCash in Israel, write an HOWTO about configuring GNUCash to meet the needs for micro-business accounting in Israel? Sample questions: 1. How to set up things so that VAT will be automatically calculated and credited to a VAT account? 2. How to get the accounts notarized (or whatever) by a CPA? --- Omer On Sun, 2008-04-06 at 09:07 +0300, Yuval Hager wrote: Hi list, It's that time of year again (for submitting fiscal reports). This year I have everything under gnucash though! I was wondering what is the best way to file the reports to the accountant. Assuming he does not know or care about the software - What reports should I create and send to him? I know Gnucash reports are US oriented, and have no idea which ones apply to Israel. -- Kosher Cellphones (cellphones with blocked SMS, video and Internet) are menace to the deaf. They must be outlawed! (See also: http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/2006/04/21/the-grave-danger-to-the-deaf-from-kosher-cellphones/) My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gnucash annual reports for Israel
On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 09:42:01AM +0300, Omer Zak wrote: Omer, 2. How to get the accounts notarized (or whatever) by a CPA? I don't think you would want to. In order for YOU to enter the data into an apporoved accounting program, you must be a level 3 (as in 1 is the lowest) certified bookkeeper. If you use an alternate method of entering the data and keeping the books, or you are not certified, you can not legally submit the data to the tax authorities. However if you provide the data to your accountant and they enter the data or have a level 3 certified bookkeeper enter it, those reports may be submitted. For best results and less cost, you can submit your data to them in a format they can import the data into their program. From what I understand all the approved programs can read .xls (Exel format) spreadsheets. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED] N3OWJ/4X1GM = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gnucash annual reports for Israel
Geoff, While I know that there are lots of complications and non-sense things in the Israeli tax laws, I am afraid that your point of view makes things more complicated than they really are. On Sun, 2008-04-06 at 10:14 +0300, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: 2. How to get the accounts notarized (or whatever) by a CPA? I don't think you would want to. In order for YOU to enter the data into an apporoved accounting program, you must be a level 3 (as in 1 is the lowest) certified bookkeeper. I have been using an accounting program running in MS-DOS (!), but now (due to reasons into which I'll not go now) I am faced with either going back to fully manual method or switching to a Linux based accounting program. If you use an alternate method of entering the data and keeping the books, or you are not certified, you can not legally submit the data to the tax authorities. However if you provide the data to your accountant and they enter the data or have a level 3 certified bookkeeper enter it, those reports may be submitted. My work flow has always been to provide the data to my CPA and have him submit the reports. The fact that this work flow will stay the same is what is simplifying the problem. For best results and less cost, you can submit your data to them in a format they can import the data into their program. From what I understand all the approved programs can read .xls (Exel format) spreadsheets. This can be part of the proposed GNUCash-for-Israel HOWTO - how to prepare a .xls file so that its contents can be imported into all accounting programs approved in Israel. --- Omer -- Kosher Cellphones (cellphones with blocked SMS, video and Internet) are menace to the deaf. They must be outlawed! (See also: http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/2006/04/21/the-grave-danger-to-the-deaf-from-kosher-cellphones/) My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gnucash annual reports for Israel
Original message Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 10:13:26 +0300 From: Omer Zak [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Gnucash annual reports for Israel To: linux-il linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il Geoff, While I know that there are lots of complications and non-sense things in the Israeli tax laws, I am afraid that your point of view makes things more complicated than they really are. On Sun, 2008-04-06 at 10:14 +0300, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: 2. How to get the accounts notarized (or whatever) by a CPA? I don't think you would want to. In order for YOU to enter the data into an apporoved accounting program, you must be a level 3 (as in 1 is the lowest) certified bookkeeper. I have been using an accounting program running in MS-DOS (!), but now (due to reasons into which I'll not go now) I am faced with either going back to fully manual method or switching to a Linux based accounting program. If you use an alternate method of entering the data and keeping the books, or you are not certified, you can not legally submit the data to the tax authorities. However if you provide the data to your accountant and they enter the data or have a level 3 certified bookkeeper enter it, those reports may be submitted. My work flow has always been to provide the data to my CPA and have him submit the reports. The fact that this work flow will stay the same is what is simplifying the problem. For best results and less cost, you can submit your data to them in a format they can import the data into their program. From what I understand all the approved programs can read .xls (Exel format) spreadsheets. This can be part of the proposed GNUCash-for-Israel HOWTO - how to prepare a .xls file so that its contents can be imported into all accounting programs approved in Israel. --- Omer -- Kosher Cellphones (cellphones with blocked SMS, video and Internet) are menace to the deaf. They must be outlawed! (See also: http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/2006/04/21/the-grave-danger-to-the-deaf-from-kosher-cellphones/) My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've also hit this. My accountant insists on preparing reports from original docs even though I supply an xls with the material. It's not a Linux/GNUcash problem. It's a State of Israel bureaucracy issue. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gnucash annual reports for Israel
On Sunday 06 April 2008, Omer Zak wrote: If we are at this subject, can anyone, who has experience with using GNUCash in Israel, write an HOWTO about configuring GNUCash to meet the needs for micro-business accounting in Israel? Sample questions: 1. How to set up things so that VAT will be automatically calculated and credited to a VAT account? I have asked and searched the manuals and FAQs but could not find a way to conveniently automatically calculate VAT. However, since it is quite convenient to make calculations for each cell, I do it manually every time. I split VAT to Liabilities:VAT Payments and Expenses:VAT. I use the Liability Account for VAT payments, crediting it when I am liable, and debit it when I pay to VAT authorities. The manual method also lets me decide which portion of the VAT I move to Liabilities:VAT payments and which to Expenses:VAT. 2. How to get the accounts notarized (or whatever) by a CPA? I just would like to know *which* reports should I send to the accountant. I don't expect him to use Gnucash or accept QIF/whatnot format files. --y --- Omer On Sun, 2008-04-06 at 09:07 +0300, Yuval Hager wrote: Hi list, It's that time of year again (for submitting fiscal reports). This year I have everything under gnucash though! I was wondering what is the best way to file the reports to the accountant. Assuming he does not know or care about the software - What reports should I create and send to him? I know Gnucash reports are US oriented, and have no idea which ones apply to Israel. -- Yuval Hager [T] +972-77-341-4155 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Gnucash annual reports for Israel
In order to submit reports you must use a software authorized by the Israeli Tax authorities. GNUCash is not authorized as much as I know therefore no CPA will get reports from it. Sorry for the self advertising, however the only open source software I know that has Tax authorities is drorit (http://drorit.helicontech.co.il) -- Ori Idan On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Yuval Hager [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday 06 April 2008, Omer Zak wrote: If we are at this subject, can anyone, who has experience with using GNUCash in Israel, write an HOWTO about configuring GNUCash to meet the needs for micro-business accounting in Israel? Sample questions: 1. How to set up things so that VAT will be automatically calculated and credited to a VAT account? I have asked and searched the manuals and FAQs but could not find a way to conveniently automatically calculate VAT. However, since it is quite convenient to make calculations for each cell, I do it manually every time. I split VAT to Liabilities:VAT Payments and Expenses:VAT. I use the Liability Account for VAT payments, crediting it when I am liable, and debit it when I pay to VAT authorities. The manual method also lets me decide which portion of the VAT I move to Liabilities:VAT payments and which to Expenses:VAT. 2. How to get the accounts notarized (or whatever) by a CPA? I just would like to know *which* reports should I send to the accountant. I don't expect him to use Gnucash or accept QIF/whatnot format files. --y --- Omer On Sun, 2008-04-06 at 09:07 +0300, Yuval Hager wrote: Hi list, It's that time of year again (for submitting fiscal reports). This year I have everything under gnucash though! I was wondering what is the best way to file the reports to the accountant. Assuming he does not know or care about the software - What reports should I create and send to him? I know Gnucash reports are US oriented, and have no idea which ones apply to Israel. -- Yuval Hager [T] +972-77-341-4155 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ספרים וסיפורים שכתבתי: http://www.thestories.org
Re: Gnucash annual reports for Israel
Ori Idan wrote: In order to submit reports you must use a software authorized by the Israeli Tax authorities. Just for the record, to the best of my knowledge, this is not so. You only need to certify your program with the tax authorities if you intend to *sell* it. Otherwise, a piece of paper works just as well. GNUCash is not authorized as much as I know therefore no CPA will get reports from it. Generating reports is just a question of technical availability of the feature. Whether you can submit them as is a different matter, of course. Shachar = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gnucash annual reports for Israel
Yuval Hager wrote: On Sunday 06 April 2008, Ori Idan wrote: In order to submit reports you must use a software authorized by the Israeli Tax authorities. GNUCash is not authorized as much as I know therefore no CPA will get reports from it. True. I am not trying to formally submit those reports to the authorities. I just wanted to know which Gnucash reports are relevant for an Israeli accountant. I plan to print them (or send PDF) and hand them over for him to submit to authorities. --yuval http://mof.gov.il/taxes/ Firefox will do fine :) Moish = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gnucash annual reports for Israel
On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 04:24:00PM +0300, Yuval Hager wrote: I am not trying to formally submit those reports to the authorities. I just wanted to know which Gnucash reports are relevant for an Israeli accountant. I plan to print them (or send PDF) and hand them over for him to submit to authorities. I don't think he can. From what I was told, the only acceptable reports were those from approved programs entered by properly certified people. If you provide him with PDF files or printouts, he still has to enter them into the appropriate program. If he is given the data in an Excel compatible spreadsheet, he does not have to retype the data, he just has to verify it. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED] N3OWJ/4X1GM To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gnucash annual reports for Israel
On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 03:24:15PM +0300, Shachar Shemesh wrote: Just for the record, to the best of my knowledge, this is not so. You only need to certify your program with the tax authorities if you intend to *sell* it. Otherwise, a piece of paper works just as well. I'm not a laywer, but what I was told is that all business tax reports must be submitted from an approved program, with the data entered by a level 3 certified bookkeeper. You do not need a certified level 3 bookkeeper. I have done it myself for years, two years ago I handed it to my CPA since I did not have a software to do it. Since December 2007, Drorit is certified and thus I can use it. You can use a piece of paper but also on pieces of paper there are some laws you need to obey. You can submit reports either on paper or from a ceritified software. Today, a certified software must be able to output files in a predefined format (open format, defined by tax authorities). Therefore GNUCash will not be accepted as it can not output these files. -- Ori Idan
Re: Gnucash annual reports for Israel
On Sunday 06 April 2008, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 04:24:00PM +0300, Yuval Hager wrote: I am not trying to formally submit those reports to the authorities. I just wanted to know which Gnucash reports are relevant for an Israeli accountant. I plan to print them (or send PDF) and hand them over for him to submit to authorities. I don't think he can. From what I was told, the only acceptable reports were those from approved programs entered by properly certified people. If you provide him with PDF files or printouts, he still has to enter them into the appropriate program. If he is given the data in an Excel compatible spreadsheet, he does not have to retype the data, he just has to verify it. Geoff. Do you have experience with exporting data from Gnucash to Excel spreadsheet that makes accountants happy? --y signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Gnucash annual reports for Israel
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: I'm not a laywer, but what I was told is that all business tax reports must be submitted from an approved program, with the data entered by a level 3 certified bookkeeper. Approved program, yes. Data entered by a level 3 certified bookkeeper - no. All the data in Codefidence is entered by a non certified bookkeeper (but into an approved program) and Ernest Young, our auditors, found no fault in this procedure. I believe you are confusing who is authorized to *submit* the reports to the IRS versus who is allowed to do data entry. Gilad -- Gilad Ben-Yossef Chief Coffee Drinker Codefidence Ltd. The code is free, your time isn't.(TM) Web:http://codefidence.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Office: +972-8-9316883 ext. 201 Fax:+972-8-9316885 Mobile: +972-52-8260388 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gnucash annual reports for Israel
On Sunday 06 April 2008, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: I'm not a laywer, but what I was told is that all business tax reports must be submitted from an approved program, with the data entered by a level 3 certified bookkeeper. Approved program, yes. Data entered by a level 3 certified bookkeeper - no. All the data in Codefidence is entered by a non certified bookkeeper (but into an approved program) and Ernest Young, our auditors, found no fault in this procedure. May I ask which program you use? Is it available for Linux? --y signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
