Re: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]

[Jeremy Hoyland]

RMS was bullied into canceling his Israeli University talks by his (paying)
Palestinian hosts. He explains here:

http://stallman.org/articles/palestine-trip.html

Can we PLEASE stop playing politics now? This is NOT the right forum, and
we're none of us any good at it. RMS himself is a great example.

J.

[full disclosure; I use and enjoy Linux Mint, just as I enjoy the music of
Richard Wagner. Bad people can create good things]

On 20 November 2017 at 12:45, Tzafrir Cohen  wrote:

> Complementing the time line:
>
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 11:56:13AM +0200, Geoffrey Mendelson wrote:
> > On 11/20/2017 11:20 AM, Vladimir Vainer wrote:
> > > Can you provide more information on  Israel-Palestine controversy as it
> > > applies to Open Office?
> >
> > Time Line:
> >
> > Arab League passes a boycott of Israel. (this will become important
> later)
> >
> > Oslo accords create Palestinian Authority.  The PA sends workers and
> medical
> > patients to Israel, gets most of its water, electricity, food, cooking
> gas,
> > building supplies, etc from Israel (no boycott).
> >
> > Palestinians bombard Sderot with rockets and mortars.
> >
> > Sderot builds underground kindergarden (gan)
> >
> > Larry Ellison (CEO of Oracle) donates money to extend kindergarden with
> > underground playground, one of many things in Israel he funded.
> >
>
> 2010:
>
> Jan: Oracle buys Sun (owner of OpenOffice.org). Renames it
> OracleOpenOffice.
>
> Sep: The majority of the developers community forks. LibreOffice is
> born. They form The Document Foundation.
>
> 2011:
>
> Apr: Oracle annonces it will abandon development of OpenOffice. At the
> time LibreOffice has already turned out to be a more vibrant
> alternative. But there was still something of a development community
> behind the Oracle project (and a third, competing, one, led by former
> OO.o developers).
>
> Jun: Oracle announces it will move OpenOffice to the Apache Foundation.
>
> > Palestinain businessman invites (and I assume pays) RMS to speak on
> FOSS. He
> > requires that RMS does not speak in Israel or meet with israelis on that
> > trip. Note that RMS could have flown to Aman, taken a taxi to the Alenby
> > Bridge and a Palestinian taxi to where he wanted to in the P.A. without
> ever
> > entering Israel.
> >
> > RMS chooses to fly to Ben Gurion and enter the PA via Israel.
> >
> > RMS announces, using his email account as President of the FSF that he
> will
> > honor the (nonexistent (see above)) boycott of Israel.
>
> RMS visited Israel in Jul-2011. He also gave two talks in Israel proper,
> though not one of them was in a university.
>
> >
> > Oracle was going to divest its interest in Open Office. The original plan
> > was to donate it to the FSF.
>
> Huh? Have you any evidence of that? Any mails exchanged from people at
> Oracle with the FSF or whoever?
>
> At the time IBM put pressure on Oracle to donate the code to Apache
> instead of following the developers community (who eventually formed The
> Document Foundation). The FSF had no real affiliation with the practical
> fork of OO.o (ooo-build / go-oo), that has already established TDF as a
> legal entity.
>
> See e.g.
> http://www.zdnet.com/article/what-the-heck-is-happening-
> with-openoffice-update/
>
> >
> > Ellison (obviously upset by RMS's boycott) donates Open Office to the
> Apache
> > Foundation.
>
> This is not so clear to me.
>
> --
> Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is
> http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's
> tzaf...@cohens.org.il ||  best
> tzaf...@debian.org|| friend
>
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Re: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]

[Tzafrir Cohen]

Complementing the time line:

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 11:56:13AM +0200, Geoffrey Mendelson wrote:
> On 11/20/2017 11:20 AM, Vladimir Vainer wrote:
> > Can you provide more information on  Israel-Palestine controversy as it
> > applies to Open Office?
> 
> Time Line:
> 
> Arab League passes a boycott of Israel. (this will become important later)
> 
> Oslo accords create Palestinian Authority.  The PA sends workers and medical
> patients to Israel, gets most of its water, electricity, food, cooking gas,
> building supplies, etc from Israel (no boycott).
> 
> Palestinians bombard Sderot with rockets and mortars.
> 
> Sderot builds underground kindergarden (gan)
> 
> Larry Ellison (CEO of Oracle) donates money to extend kindergarden with
> underground playground, one of many things in Israel he funded.
> 

2010:

Jan: Oracle buys Sun (owner of OpenOffice.org). Renames it
OracleOpenOffice.

Sep: The majority of the developers community forks. LibreOffice is
born. They form The Document Foundation.

2011:

Apr: Oracle annonces it will abandon development of OpenOffice. At the
time LibreOffice has already turned out to be a more vibrant
alternative. But there was still something of a development community
behind the Oracle project (and a third, competing, one, led by former
OO.o developers).

Jun: Oracle announces it will move OpenOffice to the Apache Foundation.

> Palestinain businessman invites (and I assume pays) RMS to speak on FOSS. He
> requires that RMS does not speak in Israel or meet with israelis on that
> trip. Note that RMS could have flown to Aman, taken a taxi to the Alenby
> Bridge and a Palestinian taxi to where he wanted to in the P.A. without ever
> entering Israel.
> 
> RMS chooses to fly to Ben Gurion and enter the PA via Israel.
> 
> RMS announces, using his email account as President of the FSF that he will
> honor the (nonexistent (see above)) boycott of Israel.

RMS visited Israel in Jul-2011. He also gave two talks in Israel proper,
though not one of them was in a university.

> 
> Oracle was going to divest its interest in Open Office. The original plan
> was to donate it to the FSF.

Huh? Have you any evidence of that? Any mails exchanged from people at
Oracle with the FSF or whoever?

At the time IBM put pressure on Oracle to donate the code to Apache
instead of following the developers community (who eventually formed The
Document Foundation). The FSF had no real affiliation with the practical
fork of OO.o (ooo-build / go-oo), that has already established TDF as a
legal entity.

See e.g.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/what-the-heck-is-happening-with-openoffice-update/

> 
> Ellison (obviously upset by RMS's boycott) donates Open Office to the Apache
> Foundation.

This is not so clear to me.

-- 
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Re: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]

[Geoffrey Mendelson]

On 11/20/2017 11:20 AM, Vladimir Vainer wrote:
Can you provide more information on  Israel-Palestine controversy as 
it applies to Open Office?


Time Line:

Arab League passes a boycott of Israel. (this will become important later)

Oslo accords create Palestinian Authority.  The PA sends workers and 
medical patients to Israel, gets most of its water, electricity, food, 
cooking gas, building supplies, etc from Israel (no boycott).


Palestinians bombard Sderot with rockets and mortars.

Sderot builds underground kindergarden (gan)

Larry Ellison (CEO of Oracle) donates money to extend kindergarden with 
underground playground, one of many things in Israel he funded.


Palestinain businessman invites (and I assume pays) RMS to speak on 
FOSS. He requires that RMS does not speak in Israel or meet with 
israelis on that trip. Note that RMS could have flown to Aman, taken a 
taxi to the Alenby Bridge and a Palestinian taxi to where he wanted to 
in the P.A. without ever entering Israel.


RMS chooses to fly to Ben Gurion and enter the PA via Israel.

RMS announces, using his email account as President of the FSF that he 
will honor the (nonexistent (see above)) boycott of Israel.


Oracle was going to divest its interest in Open Office. The original 
plan was to donate it to the FSF.


Ellison (obviously upset by RMS's boycott) donates Open Office to the 
Apache Foundation.


almost irrelevant notes, but provide context:

There is no PA boycott of Israel. The Palestinian BDS movement was 
created and is run by a graduate student at Tel Aviv University.


RMS did in fact meet with Israelis (and I don't remember if there were 
formal speeches) on that trip.


Geoff.




--
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Re: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]

[Vladimir Vainer]

Can you provide more information on  Israel-Palestine controversy as it
applies to Open Office?

Couldn't find anything on google either.
Thanks.

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Geoffrey Mendelson <
geoffreymendel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11/20/2017 10:08 AM, Omer Zak wrote:
>
>> I searched the English Wikipedia and found in its articles no mention of
>> the Israel-Palestine controversy as it pertains to Linux Mint.
>>
>> There is neither mention of it in the Linux Mint article nor as a
>> separate article.
>>
>> According to my findings:
>>
>>  People, who would like to read about the controversy,
>>  would not find information about it in the English
>>  Wikipedia.
>>
>> Form your opinions about the above fact.
>>
> The English Wikipedia does not mention the Israel-Palestine controversy as
> it applies to Open Office either.
>
> Geoff.
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 Jerusalem, Israel
>
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Re: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]

[Geoffrey Mendelson]

On 11/20/2017 10:08 AM, Omer Zak wrote:

I searched the English Wikipedia and found in its articles no mention of
the Israel-Palestine controversy as it pertains to Linux Mint.

There is neither mention of it in the Linux Mint article nor as a
separate article.

According to my findings:

 People, who would like to read about the controversy,
 would not find information about it in the English
 Wikipedia.

Form your opinions about the above fact.
The English Wikipedia does not mention the Israel-Palestine controversy 
as it applies to Open Office either.


Geoff.
--
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Re: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]

[Omer Zak]

I searched the English Wikipedia and found in its articles no mention of
the Israel-Palestine controversy as it pertains to Linux Mint.

There is neither mention of it in the Linux Mint article nor as a
separate article.

According to my findings:

People, who would like to read about the controversy,
would not find information about it in the English
Wikipedia.

Form your opinions about the above fact.

--- Omer



On Mon, 2017-11-20 at 07:27 +0200, Yehuda Deutsch wrote:
> I don't see an issue in clem's views, as long that it stays off the
> community's ground.
> His apology for mixing open source with politics is here:
> https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=775
> 
> 
> I have no idea if this will fuel or calm things, but there is an
> archived talk sub-page on wikipedia on the subject:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Linux_Mint/Archive_Israel-Palestine_Controversy
> 
> 
> 
> I find mint to be very useful, both for "professional" and "home"
> users. I tried ubuntu for a while, it left a bitterer taste than any
> other distro i tried before.


-- 
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My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
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Re: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]

[Yehuda Deutsch]

I don't see an issue in clem's views, as long that it stays off the
community's ground.
His apology for mixing open source with politics is here:
https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=775

I have no idea if this will fuel or calm things, but there is an archived
talk sub-page on wikipedia on the subject:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Linux_Mint/Archive_Israel-Palestine_Controversy

I find mint to be very useful, both for "professional" and "home" users. I
tried ubuntu for a while, it left a bitterer taste than any other distro i
tried before.

Yehuda

--
*Yehuda Deutsch | IT Developer*

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 8:42 PM, Steve Litt 
wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 18:15:37 +0200
> Geoffrey Mendelson  wrote:
>
> [very offtopic]
> > As for moving on, I have, on to another less political distro.
> >
> > Geoff.
>
> I was in the process of converting all my and my family's computers to
> Mint when I heard about Clem's litmus test. I switched to Ubuntu,
> causing myself quite a bit of extra work undoing new Mint installations.
>
> I quit publically criticizing Mint over that affair five years ago, and
> in fact they haven't done anything stupid since 2009. But I still have
> a bad taste in my mouth, so I personally don't use or recommend Mint.
>
> Kind of like I don't buy Volkswagens. Or Mel Gibson movies. I wouldn't
> enjoy driving the former or watching the latter.
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> November 2017 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust
>
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Re: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 18:15:37 +0200
Geoffrey Mendelson  wrote:

[very offtopic]
> As for moving on, I have, on to another less political distro.
> 
> Geoff.

I was in the process of converting all my and my family's computers to
Mint when I heard about Clem's litmus test. I switched to Ubuntu,
causing myself quite a bit of extra work undoing new Mint installations.

I quit publically criticizing Mint over that affair five years ago, and
in fact they haven't done anything stupid since 2009. But I still have
a bad taste in my mouth, so I personally don't use or recommend Mint.

Kind of like I don't buy Volkswagens. Or Mel Gibson movies. I wouldn't
enjoy driving the former or watching the latter.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
November 2017 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts
http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust

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Re: Distro recommendation

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:18:47 +0200
Geoffrey Mendelson  wrote:


> Linux Mint was developed and maintained by a raving lunatic
> anti-semite. He demanded that his work had nothing to do with the IDF
> because it violently oppresses the Palestinian people. That is
> impossible, because many of the maintainers of all distros use code
> from Israel, and most of the people here serve milluim.
> 
> He was eventually chastised to the point he claims he apologized, but
> if you can find his apologies, it was for setting off the Jews who
> control the world.  You probably can't find them, as when he was
> called out on his slap in the face apologies,  he deleted all the
> relevant blog postings.

I'm proud to be one of the ones who called him out, first by private
email, and then when blown off, publically.

http://www.troubleshooters.com/lpm/200908/200908.htm#_The_Politics_of_Free_Software:_Pet_predjudices
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
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http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust

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Re: Distro recommendation

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 09:54:42 +0200
Shlomo Solomon  wrote:

> I don't want to start a Distro war, but ...
> 
> I've been on Mandrake/Mandriva/Mageia for over 17 years, but from
> what I've read, there are quite a few problems with Mageia 6 (I'm
> still on 5), and it's really strange that it's been 2 years in the
> making.
> 
> So I'm thinking about abandoning ship. 
> 
> I definitely want to stay with KDE (never liked Gnome) and I really
> like how configurable Mageia is.

Have you considered other WMDEs (Window Manager/Desktop Environments)?
Many excellent ones exist.

> I don't think this should be an issue, but my computer is fairly old
> (a 4 year old i5 Haswell CPU with 8 Gb).

I have Void Linux running on my 2006 2GB RAM dualcore Acer laptop,
using the LXDE WMDE, and except for starting programs, this thing's
pretty snappy. Youtube on Firefox 57 runs without a stutter on a slow
wifi.

> I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
> additional options)?

Void Linux. Efficient, stable, easy to understand and administer
without graphical config tools.

By the way, whatever distro you get, you should install dmenu, make a
wrapper script to change it to a vertical menu, and set an easy hotkey
to it. Fastest way to run programs.

HTH,

SteveT

Steve Litt 
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Re: Distro recommendation

[Efraim Flashner]

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 09:54:42AM +0200, Shlomo Solomon wrote:
> I don't want to start a Distro war, but ...
> 
> I've been on Mandrake/Mandriva/Mageia for over 17 years, but from
> what I've read, there are quite a few problems with Mageia 6 (I'm
> still on 5), and it's really strange that it's been 2 years in the
> making.
> 
> So I'm thinking about abandoning ship. 
> 
> I definitely want to stay with KDE (never liked Gnome) and I really
> like how configurable Mageia is.
> 
> I don't think this should be an issue, but my computer is fairly old (a
> 4 year old i5 Haswell CPU with 8 Gb).
> 
> I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
> additional options)?
> 

Another option I've heard good things about is KDE Neon. It's the latest
KDE on top of Ubuntu LTS.

I've recently switched from Debian to Guix after using it for more than
5 years. Currently there is work in Guix to get a working KDE desktop
but there isn't yet.

-- 
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Re: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]

[Geoffrey Mendelson]

On 11/19/2017 4:15 PM, Shlomi Fish wrote:


just wanted to note that I agree in principle. Not every criticism of 
certain Israeli policies is anti-Semitic. I've written about it in the 
past here - 
http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/politics/define-zionism/ .


so do I, in fact, I think it is reasonable to assume that no Israeli 
completely agrees with the government on all things.


However if you can find his original "apology", there is no doubt that 
he was (is) an antisemite. I am paraphrasing here, but it was an apology 
for upsetting the Jews that rule the world (I think powers that be was 
the exact wording). He was very bitter about being censured.


As for moving on, I have, on to another less political distro.

Geoff.

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Re: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]

[Shlomi Fish]

Hi all!

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Yuval Adam <_...@yuv.al> wrote:

> While we're off-topic and discussing misinformation, it's important to
> note that being anti Israeli policies (military occupation of Palestine
> in this case) is not being anti-semitic.
>
> Some Zionists seem to be confused about the fact that it's possible to
> hold strong opinions against immoral and unjust actions taken by the
> state without those opinions being founded in racism.
>
> Of course if such racist claims were made directly that's definitely a
> problem.
>
>
just wanted to note that I agree in principle. Not every criticism of
certain Israeli policies is anti-Semitic. I've written about it in the past
here - http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/politics/define-zionism/ .


> On 11/19/2017 01:28 PM, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> > Off-topic:
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 10:18:47AM +0200, Geoffrey Mendelson wrote:
> >> On 11/19/2017 9:54 AM, Shlomo Solomon wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>> I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
> >>> additional options)?
> >>
> >> Linux Mint was developed and maintained by a raving lunatic
> anti-semite. He
> >> demanded that his work had nothing to do with the IDF because it
> violently
> >> oppresses the Palestinian people. That is impossible, because many of
> the
> >> maintainers of all distros use code from Israel, and most of the people
> here
> >> serve milluim.
> >>
> >> He was eventually chastised to the point he claims he apologized, but
> if you
> >> can find his apologies, it was for setting off the Jews who control the
> >> world.  You probably can't find them, as when he was called out on his
> slap
> >> in the face apologies,  he deleted all the relevant blog postings.
> >
> > He made such an ill-informed decleration long ago (some 10 years ago?).
> > If he tries to distance himself from Israel, he's not doing a very good
> > job: the "Partners" page on linuxmint.com[1] clearly lists CompuLab, a
> > long-time partner (they OEM the "mintBox") with an Israeli flag.
> >
> > [1] https://www.linuxmint.com/partners.php
> >
> > Please don't continue spreading this mis-information. Clem made a
> > mistake long ago. Let's move on.
> >
>
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Re: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]

[Yuval Adam]

While we're off-topic and discussing misinformation, it's important to
note that being anti Israeli policies (military occupation of Palestine
in this case) is not being anti-semitic.

Some Zionists seem to be confused about the fact that it's possible to
hold strong opinions against immoral and unjust actions taken by the
state without those opinions being founded in racism.

Of course if such racist claims were made directly that's definitely a
problem.

On 11/19/2017 01:28 PM, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> Off-topic:
> 
> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 10:18:47AM +0200, Geoffrey Mendelson wrote:
>> On 11/19/2017 9:54 AM, Shlomo Solomon wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>>> I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
>>> additional options)?
>>
>> Linux Mint was developed and maintained by a raving lunatic anti-semite. He
>> demanded that his work had nothing to do with the IDF because it violently
>> oppresses the Palestinian people. That is impossible, because many of the
>> maintainers of all distros use code from Israel, and most of the people here
>> serve milluim.
>>
>> He was eventually chastised to the point he claims he apologized, but if you
>> can find his apologies, it was for setting off the Jews who control the
>> world.  You probably can't find them, as when he was called out on his slap
>> in the face apologies,  he deleted all the relevant blog postings.
> 
> He made such an ill-informed decleration long ago (some 10 years ago?).
> If he tries to distance himself from Israel, he's not doing a very good
> job: the "Partners" page on linuxmint.com[1] clearly lists CompuLab, a
> long-time partner (they OEM the "mintBox") with an Israeli flag.
> 
> [1] https://www.linuxmint.com/partners.php
> 
> Please don't continue spreading this mis-information. Clem made a
> mistake long ago. Let's move on.
> 

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"antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]

[Tzafrir Cohen]

Off-topic:

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 10:18:47AM +0200, Geoffrey Mendelson wrote:
> On 11/19/2017 9:54 AM, Shlomo Solomon wrote:

> 
> 
> > I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
> > additional options)?
> 
> Linux Mint was developed and maintained by a raving lunatic anti-semite. He
> demanded that his work had nothing to do with the IDF because it violently
> oppresses the Palestinian people. That is impossible, because many of the
> maintainers of all distros use code from Israel, and most of the people here
> serve milluim.
> 
> He was eventually chastised to the point he claims he apologized, but if you
> can find his apologies, it was for setting off the Jews who control the
> world.  You probably can't find them, as when he was called out on his slap
> in the face apologies,  he deleted all the relevant blog postings.

He made such an ill-informed decleration long ago (some 10 years ago?).
If he tries to distance himself from Israel, he's not doing a very good
job: the "Partners" page on linuxmint.com[1] clearly lists CompuLab, a
long-time partner (they OEM the "mintBox") with an Israeli flag.

[1] https://www.linuxmint.com/partners.php

Please don't continue spreading this mis-information. Clem made a
mistake long ago. Let's move on.

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's
tzaf...@cohens.org.il ||  best
tzaf...@debian.org|| friend

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Re: Distro recommendation

[Shlomi Fish]

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Shay Gover  wrote:

> Mint has dropped the KDE version.
>
> What about arch?
>
>
Regarding Arch Linux, see
https://www.mail-archive.com/linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il/msg65850.html .


> On Nov 19, 2017 10:22, "Rabin Yasharzadehe"  wrote:
>
>> I like to go with Fedora MATE spin as I find it resource friendly.
>> and I use compiz as my window manager to have a very robust features and
>> some eye candy features as well.
>>
>> Fedora move fast and have a short release cycle (6 month),
>> so having to deal with new stuff each 6 month can be a burden for someone
>> how just want his computer to work.
>> in that case I'll recommend a distro which is based on Ubuntu LTS e,g
>> Ubuntu MATE.
>>
>> MATE desktop dose not support HiDPI display yet, unlike KDE and Gnome3
>> but if you prefer to use KDE, both Fedoa and Ubuntu have a spin of it.
>>
>> there is also KDE neon which uses a stable base of the OS (Ubuntu LTS
>> IIRC),
>> and all the KDE stuff are coming directly from upstream (rolling)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rabin
>>
>> On 19 November 2017 at 09:54, Shlomo Solomon 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't want to start a Distro war, but ...
>>>
>>> I've been on Mandrake/Mandriva/Mageia for over 17 years, but from
>>> what I've read, there are quite a few problems with Mageia 6 (I'm
>>> still on 5), and it's really strange that it's been 2 years in the
>>> making.
>>>
>>> So I'm thinking about abandoning ship.
>>>
>>> I definitely want to stay with KDE (never liked Gnome) and I really
>>> like how configurable Mageia is.
>>>
>>> I don't think this should be an issue, but my computer is fairly old (a
>>> 4 year old i5 Haswell CPU with 8 Gb).
>>>
>>> I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
>>> additional options)?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Shlomo Solomon
>>> http://the-solomons.net
>>> Claws Mail 3.11.1 - KDE 4.14.30 - Dolphin 4.14.3 - LINUX Mageia 5
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>
>>
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-- 
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You can never truly appreciate The Gilmore Girls until you've watched it in
the original Klingon.

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Re: Distro recommendation

[Shlomi Fish]

Hi Shlomo!

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 9:54 AM, Shlomo Solomon 
wrote:

> I don't want to start a Distro war, but ...
>
> I've been on Mandrake/Mandriva/Mageia for over 17 years, but from
> what I've read, there are quite a few problems with Mageia 6 (I'm
> still on 5), and it's really strange that it's been 2 years in the
> making.
>
> So I'm thinking about abandoning ship.
>
>
Mageia 6 works well for many people. Its release was delayed due to some
grave problems which we wanted to fix, and we did. What I suggest is that
you try upgrading to mageia 6 (after doing a backup) and see if it is
working well enough for you, and if not - possibly try a fresh install and
only then make a switch.


> I definitely want to stay with KDE (never liked Gnome) and I really
> like how configurable Mageia is.
>
> I don't think this should be an issue, but my computer is fairly old (a
> 4 year old i5 Haswell CPU with 8 Gb).
>
> I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
> additional options)?
>

I use fedora 27 on my laptop and it is nice (but not perfect). One thing I
dislike about ubuntu is the weird politically correctness they have on
their IRC channels. Regarding mint there is
https://www.facebook.com/groups/826292814153064/permalink/1497333690382303/
. Debian is another option to consider, and it has many derivatives. There
is also openSUSE.


>
> --
> Shlomo Solomon
> http://the-solomons.net
> Claws Mail 3.11.1 - KDE 4.14.30 - Dolphin 4.14.3 - LINUX Mageia 5
>
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>



-- 
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/

You can never truly appreciate The Gilmore Girls until you've watched it in
the original Klingon.

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Re: Distro recommendation

[Geoffrey Mendelson]

On 11/19/2017 11:15 AM, E.S. Rosenberg wrote:

  + *buntu has the LTS long-release cycles and the standard 6 month
cycle, updating from version to version tends to be painless


The problem with Ubuntu's LTS, is as it gets older, they only do 
security updates, so it really is no longer useful. Eventually it gets 
to the point that the particular package you want to install manually 
won't go because it depends upon many libraries that are newer than what 
you have.


Geoff.
--
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Re: Distro recommendation

[E.S. Rosenberg]

I'm more of a Gnome user and haven't really played with KDE since the
days of KDE4 (I always felt it was very 'crowded'/'not calm' as
opposed to gnome 2 back then, though when I just started Linux that
was what I liked about KDE3 all the distractions) but:

- Are you sure what you heard about the newer versions of Mageia is
not due to the Plasma project (KDE)? In which case you may have the
same issues no matter where you run.

- There probably is no distro out there that can't run KDE, when
people above write it was 'dropped' that just means that it's no
longer supported/tested/customized by the distro but unless they are
also completely autonomous in packaging/FS layout etc it will still be
installable and probably even available through normal channels.

- if you're open to Debian/Debian based you should check out Kubuntu
or Debian itself (for desktop I always felt *buntu 'feels' more
rounded)
 + *buntu has the LTS long-release cycles and the standard 6 month
cycle, updating from version to version tends to be painless
 + Debian due to it's long release cycle can be pretty outdated unless
you go into the rolling release versions
(testing/unstable/experimental) which sometimes break.

- if you want to stick with RPM based Fedora or SUSe should be nice
(Fedora tends to be pretty bleeding edge)

- If you are open to a more or less rolling release Arch or gentoo may
be interesting to you.

- Your hardware should be perfectly capable of handling any modern DE
but if you do want lighter stuff you have XFCE4, MATE (gnome2) and
LXDE are nice options.

HTH,
Eliyahu - אליהו

2017-11-19 10:43 GMT+02:00 Shlomo Solomon :
> Interesting info about Mint (and yes I checked - what you wrote is
> accurate). I don't think politics and software should mix, but NO WAY
> I'll even consider Mint now. :-)
>
>
> On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:18:47 +0200
> Geoffrey Mendelson  wrote:
>
>> Linux Mint was developed and maintained by a raving lunatic
>> anti-semite. He demanded that his work had nothing to do with the IDF
>> because it violently oppresses the Palestinian people. That is
>> impossible, because many of the maintainers of all distros use code
>> from Israel, and most of the people here serve milluim.
>>
>> He was eventually chastised to the point he claims he apologized, but
>> if you can find his apologies, it was for setting off the Jews who
>> control the world.  You probably can't find them, as when he was
>> called out on his slap in the face apologies,  he deleted all the
>> relevant blog postings.
>>
>> Geoff.
>
>
>
> --
> Shlomo Solomon
> http://the-solomons.net
> Claws Mail 3.11.1 - KDE 4.14.30 - Dolphin 4.14.3 - LINUX Mageia 5
>
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Re: Distro recommendation

[Shlomo Solomon]

Interesting info about Mint (and yes I checked - what you wrote is
accurate). I don't think politics and software should mix, but NO WAY
I'll even consider Mint now. :-)


On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:18:47 +0200
Geoffrey Mendelson  wrote:

> Linux Mint was developed and maintained by a raving lunatic
> anti-semite. He demanded that his work had nothing to do with the IDF
> because it violently oppresses the Palestinian people. That is
> impossible, because many of the maintainers of all distros use code
> from Israel, and most of the people here serve milluim.
> 
> He was eventually chastised to the point he claims he apologized, but
> if you can find his apologies, it was for setting off the Jews who
> control the world.  You probably can't find them, as when he was
> called out on his slap in the face apologies,  he deleted all the
> relevant blog postings.
> 
> Geoff.



-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 3.11.1 - KDE 4.14.30 - Dolphin 4.14.3 - LINUX Mageia 5

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Re: Distro recommendation

[Shay Gover]

Mint has dropped the KDE version.

What about arch?

On Nov 19, 2017 10:22, "Rabin Yasharzadehe"  wrote:

> I like to go with Fedora MATE spin as I find it resource friendly.
> and I use compiz as my window manager to have a very robust features and
> some eye candy features as well.
>
> Fedora move fast and have a short release cycle (6 month),
> so having to deal with new stuff each 6 month can be a burden for someone
> how just want his computer to work.
> in that case I'll recommend a distro which is based on Ubuntu LTS e,g
> Ubuntu MATE.
>
> MATE desktop dose not support HiDPI display yet, unlike KDE and Gnome3
> but if you prefer to use KDE, both Fedoa and Ubuntu have a spin of it.
>
> there is also KDE neon which uses a stable base of the OS (Ubuntu LTS
> IIRC),
> and all the KDE stuff are coming directly from upstream (rolling)
>
>
>
>
> --
> Rabin
>
> On 19 November 2017 at 09:54, Shlomo Solomon 
> wrote:
>
>> I don't want to start a Distro war, but ...
>>
>> I've been on Mandrake/Mandriva/Mageia for over 17 years, but from
>> what I've read, there are quite a few problems with Mageia 6 (I'm
>> still on 5), and it's really strange that it's been 2 years in the
>> making.
>>
>> So I'm thinking about abandoning ship.
>>
>> I definitely want to stay with KDE (never liked Gnome) and I really
>> like how configurable Mageia is.
>>
>> I don't think this should be an issue, but my computer is fairly old (a
>> 4 year old i5 Haswell CPU with 8 Gb).
>>
>> I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
>> additional options)?
>>
>> --
>> Shlomo Solomon
>> http://the-solomons.net
>> Claws Mail 3.11.1 - KDE 4.14.30 - Dolphin 4.14.3 - LINUX Mageia 5
>>
>> ___
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>
>
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Re: Distro recommendation

[Rabin Yasharzadehe]

I like to go with Fedora MATE spin as I find it resource friendly.
and I use compiz as my window manager to have a very robust features and
some eye candy features as well.

Fedora move fast and have a short release cycle (6 month),
so having to deal with new stuff each 6 month can be a burden for someone
how just want his computer to work.
in that case I'll recommend a distro which is based on Ubuntu LTS e,g
Ubuntu MATE.

MATE desktop dose not support HiDPI display yet, unlike KDE and Gnome3
but if you prefer to use KDE, both Fedoa and Ubuntu have a spin of it.

there is also KDE neon which uses a stable base of the OS (Ubuntu LTS IIRC),
and all the KDE stuff are coming directly from upstream (rolling)




--
Rabin

On 19 November 2017 at 09:54, Shlomo Solomon 
wrote:

> I don't want to start a Distro war, but ...
>
> I've been on Mandrake/Mandriva/Mageia for over 17 years, but from
> what I've read, there are quite a few problems with Mageia 6 (I'm
> still on 5), and it's really strange that it's been 2 years in the
> making.
>
> So I'm thinking about abandoning ship.
>
> I definitely want to stay with KDE (never liked Gnome) and I really
> like how configurable Mageia is.
>
> I don't think this should be an issue, but my computer is fairly old (a
> 4 year old i5 Haswell CPU with 8 Gb).
>
> I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
> additional options)?
>
> --
> Shlomo Solomon
> http://the-solomons.net
> Claws Mail 3.11.1 - KDE 4.14.30 - Dolphin 4.14.3 - LINUX Mageia 5
>
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Re: Distro recommendation

[Geoffrey Mendelson]

On 11/19/2017 9:54 AM, Shlomo Solomon wrote:

I don't want to start a Distro war, but ...

I've been on Mandrake/Mandriva/Mageia for over 17 years, but from
what I've read, there are quite a few problems with Mageia 6 (I'm
still on 5), and it's really strange that it's been 2 years in the
making.


Mageia is maintained by Shlomi Fish and others. You probably should talk 
to him. I don't use it because I only have servers, and they don't have 
a oriented server distro.



I definitely want to stay with KDE (never liked Gnome) and I really
like how configurable Mageia is.

I don't think this should be an issue, but my computer is fairly old (a
4 year old i5 Haswell CPU with 8 Gb).
Does it run 64 bit code? Some of the distros dropped x86, I know Ubuntu 
did, but it came back with a "user group" provided sub distro.




I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
additional options)?


Linux Mint was developed and maintained by a raving lunatic anti-semite. 
He demanded that his work had nothing to do with the IDF because it 
violently oppresses the Palestinian people. That is impossible, because 
many of the maintainers of all distros use code from Israel, and most of 
the people here serve milluim.


He was eventually chastised to the point he claims he apologized, but if 
you can find his apologies, it was for setting off the Jews who control 
the world.  You probably can't find them, as when he was called out on 
his slap in the face apologies,  he deleted all the relevant blog postings.


Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 Jerusalem, Israel

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