subject:"Sale"


In the interest of full disclosure, I should let you all know that I work for
Openmoko. Also, as an Israeli living in the USA I have a strong personal
interest in helping Israeli developers get access to Openmoko as much as I
can.

Doron and I have talked and continue to be in contact and I (and Openmoko) are
trying to help Doron move this forward as much as we can.

Shachar has had a long conversation on the Openmoko mailing list regarding the
state (and difficulty) of support for bidirectional languages. I think that
currently all engineers at OM are so focused on getting Freerunner into full
mass production that it is a bit difficult to get their attention on other
issues right now.

My work email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] and I'm happy to hear any questions,
comments, suggestions, or complaints either at this address or my work
address.

Regards,
Michael


On Sun, 1 Jun 2008, Doron [Ofek BIZ] wrote:


He all,

( just landed from pairs, so it will be short )

1. I started the process with MOC (ministry of communication) and MOD 
(ministry of deface ) (they also should  approve  the device)
2. according to the Israeli law and regulations - there is no possibility to 
import  pack of 10 devices - the limit for personal import is 3 .
3. there is no possibility to import personal import if the device is without 
Type Certification ( Ishur sug) [and there is no possibility to get this 
certification without a certification for trade license for cellphones ]


I finished part of the process , and I update FIC/openmoko about the status ( 
we are updating every 2-3 days)  .


As I promised to Shachar after the process if someone want to buy the device 
- I will help , as far as I can.


in Israel ther is few taxes that you need to pay : Mas Knia , Meches etc ( I 
already have the GTA02 and the cost of shipment and taxes is almost 300$)


- doron



Shachar Shemesh wrote:

Dan Aloni wrote:

Hey there,

Anyone interested in joining an Israeli Openmoko Freerunner group sale?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales

Join the revolution :)

Sorry, I'm going to be doing some serious raining on the parade here. First 
rain email:


According to someone who is trying to get a license to import these 
commercially, you can only do personal import for under four units. Trying 
to commercially import a cellular phone is a huge headache. It does not 
appear that group sale to Israel will be possible.


Shachar

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Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-06-02 Thread Dotan Cohen

2008/6/2 michael shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Shachar has had a long conversation on the Openmoko mailing list regarding
 the
 state (and difficulty) of support for bidirectional languages.

Hebrew is not the only RTL language, nor is it the most common. If
Openmoko intends to be open in the sense that it is available to
everyone, then I would expect that support for LTR, RTL, TTB, and
other methods of writing should be a core part of the UI, not tacked
on later. I should probably bring this up on the Openmoko list, but I
am not subscribed and there are those who can better argue the point
than me.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-06-02 Thread Shachar Shemesh


Dotan Cohen wrote:

2008/6/2 michael shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  

Shachar has had a long conversation on the Openmoko mailing list regarding
the
state (and difficulty) of support for bidirectional languages.



Hebrew is not the only RTL language, nor is it the most common. If
Openmoko intends to be open in the sense that it is available to
everyone, then I would expect that support for LTR, RTL, TTB, and
other methods of writing should be a core part of the UI, not tacked
on later. I should probably bring this up on the Openmoko list, but I
am not subscribed and there are those who can better argue the point
than me.
  
The thread start at 
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-May/017287.html. Do 
let me know if you believe there is anything I missed in my arguments.


Personally, I felt that had that thread gone on for any longer, it would 
have gone flame war, so I stepped out. If you read it through you will 
find some kind soul trying to defend me, and how effective that was.


At the moment, and Michael will forgive me, the official OpenMoko line 
seems to be we are not interested in BiDi speaking languages. don't buy 
our phones if you don't like it.


Shachar

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Re: Openmoko Group sale


On Mon, 2 Jun 2008, Dotan Cohen wrote:


2008/6/2 michael shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

Shachar has had a long conversation on the Openmoko mailing list regarding
the
state (and difficulty) of support for bidirectional languages.


Hebrew is not the only RTL language, nor is it the most common. If
Openmoko intends to be open in the sense that it is available to
everyone, then I would expect that support for LTR, RTL, TTB, and
other methods of writing should be a core part of the UI, not tacked
on later. I should probably bring this up on the Openmoko list, but I
am not subscribed and there are those who can better argue the point
than me.

Dotan Cohen


Hi Dotan,

Shachar raised this point on the OM list, and it was discussed at length. I
think the general feeling was that this is a very valid desire, and is
somewhere on the todo list prioritized in some way, although community
assistance would help it move forward.

Michael

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Re: Openmoko Group sale





On Mon, 2 Jun 2008, Shachar Shemesh wrote:


Dotan Cohen wrote:

2008/6/2 michael shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


Shachar has had a long conversation on the Openmoko mailing list regarding
the
state (and difficulty) of support for bidirectional languages.



Hebrew is not the only RTL language, nor is it the most common. If
Openmoko intends to be open in the sense that it is available to
everyone, then I would expect that support for LTR, RTL, TTB, and
other methods of writing should be a core part of the UI, not tacked
on later. I should probably bring this up on the Openmoko list, but I
am not subscribed and there are those who can better argue the point
than me.

The thread start at 
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-May/017287.html. Do let me 
know if you believe there is anything I missed in my arguments.


Personally, I felt that had that thread gone on for any longer, it would have 
gone flame war, so I stepped out. If you read it through you will find some 
kind soul trying to defend me, and how effective that was.


I did note that you graciously stepped out, and I feel you are quite the
gentleman for that. I agree with your assessment.




At the moment, and Michael will forgive me, the official OpenMoko line seems 
to be we are not interested in BiDi speaking languages. don't buy our phones 
if you don't like it.


I don't think there is an official line, and thus whateever point of view
comes from someone with an OM address seems to be the offical one. I think
it really is a simple matter of priority.

I think you made a very valid point, and I intend to push this further
internally.

Michael




Shachar



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Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-06-02 Thread Dotan Cohen

I will ask on the Openmoko list about their current thoughts on Qt
support. Tell me, though, what openmoko products are even available at
the moment? The Neo 1973 seems to be out of production, and the
Freerunner is not yet available.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-06-02 Thread Ira Abramov

Quoting Dotan Cohen, from the post of Mon, 02 Jun:
 everyone, then I would expect that support for LTR, RTL, TTB, and
 other methods of writing should be a core part of the UI, not tacked
 on later.

haven't seen the discussion, but I'd imagine the most sensible reply
from OpenMoko would be we provide a hardware platform and a basic UI
with 3(!) different toolkits. Don't make us pick sides, do your own
hacking.

well, sensible in the short run anyway.

some people argue that the reason Linux is slow to standardize on
desktops is the KDE/Gnome fight. While that's mostly behind us
(workstations are RAM-rich and the look-and-feel is easy to merge,
indeed I sometimes have trouble telling KDE from Gnome desktops at a
glance without digging in the menues these days), remember that on a
workstations it's easy and cheap to have a dual set of libraries
loaded and cached, and all the registry daemons and d-bus and what have
you, but it makes no sense on a handheld.

in other words, OpenMoko offers GTK. people will write GTK apps for it.
the people in Israel will want to run those apps too. it makes much more
sence to go with the flow and not develop apps for an extra library
because those apps will just have a much bigger RAM footprint, rather
than using already-loaded DLLs and make better use of RAM, cache and
all.

What's wrong with RTL support in GTK? maybe I'm asking a dumb question,
but I'm a CLI guy who understands zilch in graphic environments, so
please educate me as needed...


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Anti-RTL mindset is similar to anti-accessibility mindset (was: Re: Openmoko Group sale)

2008-06-02 Thread Omer Zak

Chiming in the discussion, my 7 agorot (2 cents) are as follows.

The mindset of the Openmoko developers seems to me to be
anti-accessibility.

It stands to reason that they'll turn down requests to provide for
accessibility to people with disabilities. The devices are probably
inherently unusable by blind people (like music for deaf people).
However, deaf people can be victimized by software, which beeps without
visual indication. Color-blind people can be victimized by software UI
design, which relies too much on color cues, and which does not provide
for ability to change colors. Epileptic people can be victimized by
software, which insists upon blinking.

Nevertheless, the percentage of those people in the general population
is small enough for the Openmoko to make a case for ignoring their
needs, much the same way they make a case for ignoring the needs of RTL
people.
--- Omer

On Tue, 2008-06-03 at 00:52 +0300, Ira Abramov wrote:
Quoting Dotan Cohen, from the post of Mon, 02 Jun:
everyone, then I would expect that support for LTR, RTL, TTB, and
other methods of writing should be a core part of the UI, not tacked
on later.

haven't seen the discussion, but I'd imagine the most sensible reply
from OpenMoko would be we provide a hardware platform and a basic UI
with 3(!) different toolkits. Don't make us pick sides, do your own
hacking.

--
Kosher Cellphones (cellphones with blocked SMS, video and Internet)
are menace to the deaf. They must be outlawed!
(See also:
http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/2006/04/21/the-grave-danger-to-the-deaf-from-kosher-cellphones/)
My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html

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Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-06-02 Thread Shachar Shemesh


Ira Abramov wrote:


haven't seen the discussion, but I'd imagine the most sensible reply
from OpenMoko would be we provide a hardware platform and a basic UI
with 3(!) different toolkits. Don't make us pick sides, do your own
hacking.
  
No, it was not. It was ETK is better suited to our needs, and the 
percentage of people it does not cover is small.



What's wrong with RTL support in GTK?

Nothing. Read this thread again. It's ETK that has no BiDi support.

Shachar

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Re: Openmoko Group sale





On Tue, 3 Jun 2008, Shachar Shemesh wrote:


Ira Abramov wrote:


haven't seen the discussion, but I'd imagine the most sensible reply
from OpenMoko would be we provide a hardware platform and a basic UI
with 3(!) different toolkits. Don't make us pick sides, do your own
hacking.

No, it was not. It was ETK is better suited to our needs, and the percentage 
of people it does not cover is small.


I feel strongly that the emotions got a bit out of control and that the
official line really is as Ira suggested. In fact, I should quote Ira's
reply in my blog as I think it really is a more accurate representation of our
intention.

We really do want to provide choice and not force developers into one toolkit
or another. If we fail to get that point across, or if we fail to properly
support that choice, please call us on that. It is not our intention.





What's wrong with RTL support in GTK?

Nothing. Read this thread again. It's ETK that has no BiDi support.

Shachar


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Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-06-01 Thread Dotan Cohen

2008/6/1 Doron [Ofek BIZ] [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 As I promised to Shachar after the process if someone want to buy the device
 - I will help , as far as I can.


In the next few months the Neo Freerunner, a consumer-ready device,
should be brought to market. I would be interested in purchasing the
device assuming that it has Hebrew support for receiving and sending
SMS, the addressbook, and the calendar application. I do not need a
Hebrew-language interface, but all user-data should be Hebrew.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-06-01 Thread Shachar Shemesh


Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote:


Doron [Ofek BIZ] wrote:



 MOD (ministry of deface )

Now that is a Freudian slip if there ever was one... :-)

A Freudian slip is when you mean one thing, but say your mother.

Shachar

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Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-06-01 Thread Gilad Ben-Yossef


Hi,


Doron [Ofek BIZ] wrote:



Hi Gilad , Shachar ... all


There will be 2 types of tracks ( I hope so) :

1 - for regular costumers

2 - for Linux and Open Source users


For the second type , the price will be without any profit (so 
basically I don't think that  business people should learn  from me).


:-)

My advice: don't. There's a reason why they call it the FreeRunner and 
not the FreeLoader... we keep saying FOSS si about freedom and not free 
beer. It's about time we act like it too.



I'd rather see your sell full price to everyone except those people who 
contributed to OpenMoko or WILL contribute (to cover the starving 16 
years old hacker that dies to port Qemu to the FreeRunner but can't 
afford the kit - give him the kit and ask for it back if he doesn't 
deliver) then wasting your time deciding who deserves a discount.


Just my 2c,


Gilad

--
Gilad Ben-Yossef 
Chief Coffee Drinker


Codefidence Ltd.
The code is free, your time isn't.(TM)

Web:http://codefidence.com
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Office: +972-8-9316883 ext. 201
Fax:+972-8-9316885
Mobile: +972-52-8260388

Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-06-01 Thread Shachar Shemesh


Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote:


My advice: don't. There's a reason why they call it the FreeRunner and 
not the FreeLoader... we keep saying FOSS si about freedom and not 
free beer. It's about time we act like it too.



I'm with Gilad on this.

The community at large has more to gain by someone who makes a profit 
and therefor stays in business, then with someone who goes out of 
business because he tried to be too nice.


Shachar

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Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-06-01 Thread Gilad Ben-Yossef


Erez D wrote:





If you sell it with a profit, then you need to give support, gurentee, 
etc ... and  this is a big headache.
please first see how you make a profit before you start. (see that you 
get more then you invest, including money, your TIME, etc...)


however if you want just to buy a quantity together, just to reduce 
cost, or even just to help friends, then i do not see a problem of

having no profit ...


He has to  pay for MoC tests out of his pocket, not to mention running 
around between MoC, MoD and god knows who else to be able to bring the 
phones legally here, so there is much more here then just a group 
purchase and he's taking a financial risk that others that are buying 
along aren't taking.  He needs to be compensated for that in order to 
really recover the costs.


Gilad


--
Gilad Ben-Yossef 
Chief Coffee Drinker


Codefidence Ltd.
The code is free, your time isn't.(TM)

Web:http://codefidence.com
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Office: +972-8-9316883 ext. 201
Fax:+972-8-9316885
Mobile: +972-52-8260388

Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-06-01 Thread Gilad Ben-Yossef


Doron [Ofek BIZ] wrote:



 MOD (ministry of deface )

Now that is a Freudian slip if there ever was one... :-)

Anyway, I want one two.

Doron, it looks like you already have a first batch of customers for the 
first shipment... :-)


Gilad


--
Gilad Ben-Yossef 
Chief Coffee Drinker


Codefidence Ltd.
The code is free, your time isn't.(TM)

Web:http://codefidence.com
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Office: +972-8-9316883 ext. 201
Fax:+972-8-9316885
Mobile: +972-52-8260388

Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-06-01 Thread Erez D

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Shachar Shemesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote:


 My advice: don't. There's a reason why they call it the FreeRunner and not
 the FreeLoader... we keep saying FOSS si about freedom and not free beer.
 It's about time we act like it too.

  I'm with Gilad on this.

 The community at large has more to gain by someone who makes a profit and
 therefor stays in business, then with someone who goes out of business
 because he tried to be too nice.


If you sell it with a profit, then you need to give support, gurentee, etc
.. and  this is a big headache.
please first see how you make a profit before you start. (see that you get
more then you invest, including money, your TIME, etc...)

however if you want just to buy a quantity together, just to reduce cost, or
even just to help friends, then i do not see a problem of
having no profit ...

my 2c

erez.


 Shachar

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Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-06-01 Thread Erez D

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 5:03 PM, Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

  Erez D wrote:




 If you sell it with a profit, then you need to give support, gurentee, etc
 ... and  this is a big headache.
 please first see how you make a profit before you start. (see that you get
 more then you invest, including money, your TIME, etc...)

 however if you want just to buy a quantity together, just to reduce cost,
 or even just to help friends, then i do not see a problem of
 having no profit ...


 He has to  pay for MoC tests out of his pocket, not to mention running
 around between MoC, MoD and god knows who else to be able to bring the
 phones legally here, so there is much more here then just a group purchase
 and he's taking a financial risk that others that are buying along aren't
 taking.  He needs to be compensated for that in order to really recover the
 costs.


that is exactly what i said: if you want to make a profit, first see what
the total cost in time and money ...
if you buy 3, you do not need tests etc ...


 Gilad


 --
 Gilad Ben-Yossef
 Chief Coffee Drinker

 Codefidence Ltd.
 The code is free, your time isn't.(TM)

 Web:http://codefidence.com
 Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Office: +972-8-9316883 ext. 201
 Fax:+972-8-9316885
 Mobile: +972-52-8260388

Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-06-01 Thread Ira Abramov

Quoting Gilad Ben-Yossef, from the post of Sun, 01 Jun:
 however if you want just to buy a quantity together, just to reduce  
 cost, or even just to help friends, then i do not see a problem of
 having no profit ...

 He has to  pay for MoC tests out of his pocket, not to mention running  
 around between MoC, MoD and god knows who else to be able to bring the  
 phones legally here, so there is much more here then just a group  
 purchase and he's taking a financial risk that others that are buying  
 along aren't taking.  He needs to be compensated for that in order to  

last I read, this meant something in the ballpark of a few hundred
thousand dollars to go through the israeli MOC and other bodies and
start a business. that would make sense if you were selling a major
gadget to Orange and Cellcloom, but we are talking about a very
expensive phone that doesn't even have EDGE, it's still a GPS with 2.5G
GSM, so I think it's a VERY small niche market of geek here, and should
not be attempted on the public at large just yet.

if I were a serious hacker (And I'm not) I would have bought one. At the
moment I'll be happy with a plain old iPhone 3.5G when they come out
later this month and than cracked in July :-)

(and yes, as usual my sig really is random out of a file of 1675
different ones... I don't trust the random generators on Debian anymore)

-- 
Telephone sanitary engineer
Ira Abramov
http://ira.abramov.org/email/

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Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-06-01 Thread Doron [Ofek BIZ]



Hi Gilad , Shachar ... all


There will be 2 types of tracks ( I hope so) :

1 - for regular costumers

2 - for Linux and Open Source users


For the second type , the price will be without any profit (so basically 
I don't think that  business people should learn  from me).

:-)


I already started a certification ( MOC) for type 2 .


The problem is what is the definition for Linux / OSS user  ( 
http://ofek.biz/blog/archives/44 ).



- doron




Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote:

 Doron [Ofek BIZ] wrote:


  MOD (ministry of deface )
 Now that is a Freudian slip if there ever was one... :-)

 Anyway, I want one two.

 Doron, it looks like you already have a first batch of customers for 
 the first shipment... :-)

 Gilad


 -- 
 Gilad Ben-Yossef 
 Chief Coffee Drinker

 Codefidence Ltd.
 The code is free, your time isn't.(TM)

 Web:http://codefidence.com
 Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Office: +972-8-9316883 ext. 201
 Fax:+972-8-9316885
 Mobile: +972-52-8260388
   


-- 

P Save a tree...please don't print this e-mail/ /



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Openmoko Group sale

2008-05-31 Thread Dan Aloni


Hey there,

Anyone interested in joining an Israeli Openmoko Freerunner group sale?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales

Join the revolution :)

--
Dan Aloni
XIV, an IBM (R) company
danaloni (at) il.ibm.com



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Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008/5/31 Dan Aloni [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hey there,

 Anyone interested in joining an Israeli Openmoko Freerunner group sale?

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales

 Join the revolution :)


If the device has full Hebrew support, then I am very interested.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-05-31 Thread Lior Kaplan

The device runs Linux, and thus should have Hebrew support.

Dotan Cohen wrote:
 2008/5/31 Dan Aloni [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hey there,

 Anyone interested in joining an Israeli Openmoko Freerunner group sale?

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales

 Join the revolution :)

 
 If the device has full Hebrew support, then I am very interested.
 
 Dotan Cohen
 
 http://what-is-what.com
 http://gibberish.co.il
 א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת
 
 A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
 Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

-- 
Lior Kaplan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008/5/31 Lior Kaplan [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 The device runs Linux, and thus should have Hebrew support.


Language support is in the UI, not in the Linux kernel. However, I see
that there is a Hebrew translation team, so I will try to contact them
tomorrow and ask how far along the project is. I can help with the
translation as well, so long as they accept patches. I am not a
developer, so I will not maintain the patches myself without
experienced help.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-05-31 Thread sara fink

Have you checked the prices to  pay IRS? From experience, my brother
bought a smart phone and he had to pay meches. Also it needed
approval of misrad hatikshoret. IRS asked quite a lot for it.

On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 5:36 PM, Lior Kaplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The device runs Linux, and thus should have Hebrew support.

 Dotan Cohen wrote:
 2008/5/31 Dan Aloni [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hey there,

 Anyone interested in joining an Israeli Openmoko Freerunner group sale?

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales

 Join the revolution :)


 If the device has full Hebrew support, then I am very interested.

 Dotan Cohen

 http://what-is-what.com
 http://gibberish.co.il
 א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

 A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
 Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

 --
 Lior Kaplan
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
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 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008/5/31 sara fink [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Have you checked the prices to  pay IRS? From experience, my brother
 bought a smart phone and he had to pay meches. Also it needed
 approval of misrad hatikshoret. IRS asked quite a lot for it.

At the price of US$369, then add 17% and convert to shekelim:
http://www.google.com/search?q=(369*117%2F100)%20usd%20in%20shekels

((369 * 117) / 100) * U.S. dollar = 1 381.40781 Israeli shekels

That's not so bad. Let's say that it could be had for 1500 NIS. I
would pay it. If someone has a contact coming to Israel from the US,
then that might help too. This is obviously not business as the phones
are not intended for retail sale, but rather for distribution between
friends. That's what we are, no? For what else do people help each
other with computer problems for free, if not friendship.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-05-31 Thread Dan Aloni


Dotan Cohen wrote:

2008/5/31 Lior Kaplan [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  

The device runs Linux, and thus should have Hebrew support.




Language support is in the UI, not in the Linux kernel. However, I see
that there is a Hebrew translation team, so I will try to contact them
tomorrow and ask how far along the project is. I can help with the
translation as well, so long as they accept patches. I am not a
developer, so I will not maintain the patches myself without
experienced help.
  
The Openmoko software can run on an emulator, so we can potentially test 
and/or fix its Hebrew support even before we get the devices.


--
Dan Aloni
XIV, an IBM (R) company
danaloni (at) il.ibm.com

Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-05-31 Thread Marc Volovic


Should is entry #4086 on page 139 of the Book Of Famous Last Words.

M

On May 31, 2008, at 5:36 PM, Lior Kaplan wrote:


The device runs Linux, and thus should have Hebrew support.

Dotan Cohen wrote:

2008/5/31 Dan Aloni [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

Hey there,

Anyone interested in joining an Israeli Openmoko Freerunner group  
sale?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales

Join the revolution :)



If the device has full Hebrew support, then I am very interested.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ- 
ק-ר-ש-ת


A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?


--
Lior Kaplan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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---MAV
Marc  
Volovic 
  marc 
@swiftouch.com
CTO 
+ 
972-54-467-6764






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Openmoko Group sale

2008-05-31 Thread Dan Aloni


Hey there,

Anyone interested in joining an Israeli OpenMoko Freerunner group sale?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales

Join the revolution :)

--
Dan Aloni
XIV, an IBM (R) company
danaloni (at) il.ibm.com


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Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008/5/31 Dan Aloni [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 The Openmoko software can run on an emulator, so we can potentially test
 and/or fix its Hebrew support even before we get the devices.


Excellent, lets get started. I don't think that it's a good idea to
get super-organized as I want this to remain a private endeavor (not
business) for import duty reasons. If someone wants to start checking
things out (Hebrew support, import possibilities, contacts traveling
from America) then please do. I won't be able to for the next two
weeks (Moed B exams at Technion) but after that I will be able to do
some investigating myself.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

Re: Openmoko Group sale


Dotan Cohen wrote:


If the device has full Hebrew support, then I am very interested.

  


The device will NOT have full Hebrew support. The os ships with three 
toolkits - QT, GTK and ETK. The first two have full Hebrew support 
(i18n), but the core services the device has (i.e. - displaying and 
sending SMSes, the address book, etc.) is using ETK, which does not have 
Hebrew support at all.


I may get around to adding Hebrew support, if and when I get my hands on 
a device.


Shachar

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Re: Openmoko Group sale


Dan Aloni wrote:

Hey there,

Anyone interested in joining an Israeli Openmoko Freerunner group sale?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales

Join the revolution :)

Sorry, I'm going to be doing some serious raining on the parade here. 
First rain email:


According to someone who is trying to get a license to import these 
commercially, you can only do personal import for under four units. 
Trying to commercially import a cellular phone is a huge headache. It 
does not appear that group sale to Israel will be possible.


Shachar

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Re: Openmoko Group sale


Dotan Cohen wrote:

2008/5/31 sara fink [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  

Have you checked the prices to  pay IRS? From experience, my brother
bought a smart phone and he had to pay meches. Also it needed
approval of misrad hatikshoret. IRS asked quite a lot for it.



At the price of US$369, then add 17% and convert to shekelim:
http://www.google.com/search?q=(369*117%2F100)%20usd%20in%20shekels

((369 * 117) / 100) * U.S. dollar = 1 381.40781 Israeli shekels
  

why 17%? where does that number come from?

According to http://62.219.95.10/misimmeruk/taxesconc.aspx the number 
should be 32.8%, of which 15.5% is VAT and 15% is import tax. As a 
business, you can claim the VAT part back through the usual means. 
Anyways, as has been mentioned before, importing a phone into israel is 
much more difficult than paying the tax for it. Check out 
http://www.mof.gov.il/customs/doar1.htm#10b


Shachar

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Re: Openmoko Group sale

Hi Shachar,

 I may get around to adding Hebrew support, if and when I get my hands on a
 device.


Might I mention a preference for Qt? I plan on learning Qt for some
KDE development, and if I can run it on the phone too that would be
great.

 why 17%? where does that number come from?


I thought that was the tax.

 According to http://62.219.95.10/misimmeruk/taxesconc.aspx the number should
 be 32.8%, of which 15.5% is VAT and 15% is import tax. As a business, you
 can claim the VAT part back through the usual means.

I would rather pay the VAT and not be a business.

 Anyways, as has been
 mentioned before, importing a phone into israel is much more difficult than
 paying the tax for it. Check out http://www.mof.gov.il/customs/doar1.htm#10b

 According to someone who is trying to get a license to import these
 commercially, you can only do personal import for under four units. Trying
 to commercially import a cellular phone is a huge headache. It does not
 appear that group sale to Israel will be possible.


Can a group of people do a personal import of more than four units?
Who would I contact about that? This most certainly is not a business.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

Re: Openmoko Group sale


Dotan Cohen wrote:

Hi Shachar,

  

I may get around to adding Hebrew support, if and when I get my hands on a
device.




Might I mention a preference for Qt? I plan on learning Qt for some
KDE development, and if I can run it on the phone too that would be
great.
  
You can write your own programs using whatever toolkit you like, but the 
core utilities will work with ETK and will not support Hebrew.
  

why 17%? where does that number come from?




I thought that was the tax.

  

a 1.3% import tax is improbable for any goods.

I would rather pay the VAT and not be a business.

  

To each his own. That does not help you here, of course.



Can a group of people do a personal import of more than four units?
Who would I contact about that? This most certainly is not a business.
  
It does not matter (at least, according to my source). If you want to do 
personal import, it has to be less than four units, and you have to get 
the phone approved with the ministry of communication. If you want to 
import four or more phones, whether you are a business or not, they 
treat it as a commercial import, and the approval process gets much more 
tricky.


Shachar

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Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-05-31 Thread Geoffrey S. Mendelson

On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 10:49:33PM +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
 Can a group of people do a personal import of more than four units?
 Who would I contact about that? This most certainly is not a business.

No, a group of people is not a person. What you can do is to have
the company sell them to a group of people and ship them in batches
of 4 or less to different people. 

Some companies will not give a quantity discount unless all of
the units are shipped at the same time, often in the same package,
to the same person and paid for at one time.

Others are more liberal and may be willing to give you a discount
for a group purchase, even if they are shipped seperately.

There are other things to consider, you can't insure a shipment via
the post office and if you decide to take a chance on using them anyway,
you will pay customs clearing fees and interest on the payments.

If you do ship via a courier, you also will pay customs clearing fees.

The total of the cost of the unit, packing, shipping, customs clearing
fees, etc is what is taxed. 

Geoff.
-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED]  N3OWJ/4X1GM

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Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-05-31 Thread sara fink

Best option is to ask someone to bring it in his luggage.

Also, try to ask misrad Hatikshoret if it's approved. They don't
allow every model. I know my brother had to get approval from them,
and only after that he released it from customs. Paid customs as well.

And he only bought 1 smart phone.

On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 11:15 PM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 10:49:33PM +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
 Can a group of people do a personal import of more than four units?
 Who would I contact about that? This most certainly is not a business.

 No, a group of people is not a person. What you can do is to have
 the company sell them to a group of people and ship them in batches
 of 4 or less to different people.

 Some companies will not give a quantity discount unless all of
 the units are shipped at the same time, often in the same package,
 to the same person and paid for at one time.

 Others are more liberal and may be willing to give you a discount
 for a group purchase, even if they are shipped seperately.

 There are other things to consider, you can't insure a shipment via
 the post office and if you decide to take a chance on using them anyway,
 you will pay customs clearing fees and interest on the payments.

 If you do ship via a courier, you also will pay customs clearing fees.

 The total of the cost of the unit, packing, shipping, customs clearing
 fees, etc is what is taxed.

 Geoff.
 --
 Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED]  N3OWJ/4X1GM

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Re: Openmoko Group sale

2008-05-31 Thread Doron [Ofek BIZ]


He all,

( just landed from pairs, so it will be short )

1. I started the process with MOC (ministry of communication) and MOD 
(ministry of deface ) (they also should  approve  the device)
2. according to the Israeli law and regulations - there is no 
possibility to import  pack of 10 devices - the limit for personal 
import is 3 .
3. there is no possibility to import personal import if the device is 
without Type Certification ( Ishur sug) [and there is no possibility 
to get this certification without a certification for trade license for 
cellphones ]


I finished part of the process , and I update FIC/openmoko about the 
status ( we are updating every 2-3 days)  .


As I promised to Shachar after the process if someone want to buy the 
device - I will help , as far as I can.


in Israel ther is few taxes that you need to pay : Mas Knia , Meches etc 
( I already have the GTA02 and the cost of shipment and taxes is almost 
300$)


- doron



Shachar Shemesh wrote:

Dan Aloni wrote:

Hey there,

Anyone interested in joining an Israeli Openmoko Freerunner group sale?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales

Join the revolution :)

Sorry, I'm going to be doing some serious raining on the parade here. 
First rain email:


According to someone who is trying to get a license to import these 
commercially, you can only do personal import for under four units. 
Trying to commercially import a cellular phone is a huge headache. It 
does not appear that group sale to Israel will be possible.


Shachar

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Re: OFFTOPIC: Various computer accessories for sale

2007-06-11 Thread Erez D


www.agora.co.il

On 6/10/07, Jason Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi all,

I'm leaving the country for an extended period, and have been cleaning out
the old computer junk. The items
can be picked up from Rehovot, or I will send it to you.
Swaps will also be considered (for RAM or other interesting items). Please
call or email for more details:

* Avermedia AverTV Go 007 FM Plus (works with Windows XP, rumoured to work
with linux but not tested) - 50 shekels
* no-name 802.11b PCMCIA card (works with linux with some effort) - 10
shekels
* PCI SCSI card (can connect internal + external drive) plus cables - 20
shekels
* SCSI CD-ROM drive - free
* Maxtor 3.5 2.1GB hard drive - 10 shekels
* PCI sound card - Aztech PCI 168 - 10 shekels

Thanks,

Jason Friedman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
054-8076717

OFFTOPIC: Various computer accessories for sale

2007-06-10 Thread Jason Friedman


Hi all,

I'm leaving the country for an extended period, and have been cleaning out
the old computer junk. The items
can be picked up from Rehovot, or I will send it to you.
Swaps will also be considered (for RAM or other interesting items). Please
call or email for more details:

* Avermedia AverTV Go 007 FM Plus (works with Windows XP, rumoured to work
with linux but not tested) - 50 shekels
* no-name 802.11b PCMCIA card (works with linux with some effort) - 10
shekels
* PCI SCSI card (can connect internal + external drive) plus cables - 20
shekels
* SCSI CD-ROM drive - free
* Maxtor 3.5 2.1GB hard drive - 10 shekels
* PCI sound card - Aztech PCI 168 - 10 shekels

Thanks,

Jason Friedman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
054-8076717

AD: CS books 4 sale

2006-11-16 Thread Peter



Hello there are still some books for sale from the list I posted last 
week. The books will be on sale only for a few more days:


I am selling some CS books (English language, most are standard texts for CS). 
Please see the list and conditions here:


  http://p226.dyndns.org/books

Please mention 'books' in the email subject if replying.

thanks,
Peter

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AD: CS books 4 sale

2006-11-06 Thread Peter



Hello,

I am selling some CS books (English language, most are standard texts 
for CS). Please see the list and conditions here:


  http://p226.dyndns.org/books

Please mention 'books' in the email subject if replying.

thanks,
Peter

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[YBA] Sparc10 for trade/sale/donation

2006-11-06 Thread Jonathan Ben Avraham


Hi Linux-IL subscribers,
I have an old Sun original Sparc10 workstation in working condition with 
256Mb RAM and SCSI card and some version of Solaris for trade, sale or 
(most likely) donation. Let me know off-list if you are interested.


 - yba

--
 EE 77 7F 30 4A 64 2E C5  83 5F E7 49 A6 82 29 BA~. .~   Tk Open Systems
=}ooO--U--Ooo{=
 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -

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Off Topic: for sale 21'' Hitachi screen

2004-12-09 Thread Kfir Lavi

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi,
Sorry for the off topic item, but i thoght it will be better to tell you guys 
first.
This is a screen with sony tube. So its trinitron.
Lately the screen stoped showing blue colors.
I have checked the cable, and its not the problem.
It has RGB output at the back.
Mybe some of you can make use of it.

kfir
052-3924563
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFBuETne7jKk87FUO8RAssAAJ4pI8IDOkjwDOLd89kiM0Y/yQLxuQCePRzS
jZAMaRS3gLt4qMk1tzLljU8=
=y7qV
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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A few items for sale

2003-11-08 Thread Amit Margalit

Hello all,

I have a few pieces of equipment that I wouldn't mind selling for cheap. I 
know it's off-topic, but I'd rather Linuxers have them than anyone else.

If you're interested, email me and we'll talk about the price - it'll be 
cheap, I promise.

Memory:
 128MB DDR SO-DIMM laptop memory, PC2100 (Nanya brand) - 1 month old.

Monitors (all non-flat, CRT):
 Panasonic S21 - 21 (just old).
 HP A4331D - 20 even older, but works fine.
 MAG XJ700T - 17 with damaged anti-reflection coating.

Other:
 4x SCSI CD-R burner (SmartFriendly) [no CD-RW]

Again, I apologize for doing this on this list.

-- 
Amit Margalit
=
Parsley
 is gharsley.
-- Ogden Nash


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OT: 2 Brand new Imation SLR 12/24Gb Tape Cartridges for sale/swap

2003-08-20 Thread Daniel Feiglin

Please contact me privately by email or voice (053) 869986.

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Re: [OT] Server for sale

2002-10-09 Thread shaulka


I find your report interesting and in place.
I do support, up to a point, which is not reached yet, 
`looking/selling old hardware' messages in this list. I believe there
are more people here who consider it in a positive manner.

-- 

Shaul Karl, [EMAIL PROTECTED] e t

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Re: [OT] Server for sale

2002-10-08 Thread Sagi Bashari


On 9/29/2002 2:03 PM, Sagi Bashari wrote:

 Hi

 First, I'm not sure that posting such message to this list is 
 acceptable, but since some people from here asked me about it I'll 
 take the risk. Sorry if I bother anyone.

 I have 1U server for sale. I used it for a while as a server for my 
 home LAN, but recently I decided that it's too noisy and I prefer to 
 replace it with a regular PC (those servers have 5 fans!)

 I'm not sure how much exactly it's worth so I put it on a public 
 auction on Walla bay:
 http://bay.walla.co.il/ts.cgi?path=379id=102954

 Worth to mention that the server runs Linux without any problems.

 Again, Sorry if I bothered anyone with this message.

Just a quick followup. This is even more offtopic than the original 
message but I have no other way to contact the people, sorry.

After posting this to the list I got several bids on this auction. They 
looked very strange because they came 2-3 minutes after each other and 
the price went up to the sky. I suspect that someone has been faking 
bids and now after the auction is over the winner is not responding to 
my mails.

For anyone who's considering using bay.walla.co.il I just wanted to warn 
you that as far as I see the service is just another public service and 
anyone can simply register multiple accounts and bid anything that he 
wants, even if he does not intend to pay. He doesn't even have to fill 
his phone number. Walla is not responding any of my emails , too.

So please, if any of the bidders is from this list, or IF anyone is 
still interested in buying this (ignore the price on the auction, the 
price is negotiable) please contact me (privately, make sure you're not 
replying to the list - I generated enough offtopic noise already).

Sagi




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Computer sale - prices and more details

2002-09-17 Thread Itamar Shtull-Trauring


I will be in office today at 16:00 for a few hours, so that's a good time to 
come. Other than iMac and 866 machine, whoever comes first or makes offer 
first gets the stuff, and gets to choose better equipment.

It's Ha'Taas 14, Ezor Taasiah Kfar-Saba, 2nd floor - company name is MAXIMA 
(same building as Hyper Rozenfeld). Call me at 054-600464 if you can't find it.

Other times during next 2 days can be arranged.

a number of 3c905 ethernet cards - 100NIS each
Laserjet 6 - 300NIS
5 400 mhz PC/17/128MB/ethernet - 1000NIS each
monitors are mag 770 17, pretty decent, 200NIS standalone if we have any left
UPS for single computer - 300NIS
5 8-port hubs - 350NIS each
24-port switch - 2000NIS
Linksys 4-port hub/router/firewall - 400NIS
Linksys 1-port router/firewall - 300NIS
Good office chairs with arms (barely used) - 200NIS each
Armless chairs - 100NIS each
  Cider Ha'Galil refrigerator, the kind kiosks use to store drinks. 700 NIS.
Water cooler - 2000NIS.
StarMax (200mhz or so, IIRC), Powermac 7500/100mhz, 6100/66mhz - 300NIS 
each, with crappy monitor of some sort if I have any left. No promises if it 
works or not, but I can hook it up and see if it boots at least. They all 
worked a few months ago. Don't expect to be able to salvage parts though, 
they're rather old.

1 866 mhz PC/17/256MB/SCSI/CD-RW/Debian - 1500NIS minimum, highest offer 
gets to take it home.

1 iMac G3 400mhz/128MB/15/DVD/Superdrive 120MB+floppy drive with media - 
I'm told that if you upgrade this to 512MB, you can run Mac OS X 10.2 on it. 
This is a minimum of $500, highest offer gets to take it home.

-- 
Itamar Shtull-Trauringhttp://itamarst.org/
Available for Python, Twisted, Zope and Java consulting


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Agenda VR for sale

2002-08-20 Thread Alon Oz


I'm selling an Agenda VR PDA.
The spec as following:
* 66 MHz MIPS-CPU (VR4181 by NEC)
* 16 MB FlashROM
* 8 MB RAM
* 160x240-Pixel 16-Grey-Mode-Display
* IrDA
* serial Port
* OS: Linux (kernel 2.4)


For more information check:
http://mobilix.org/pda_linux_agenda.html.

Or contact me. Please via email and not the mailing list.
The price is 150$ (negotiable)

-- 
Alon Oz,
Aduva Research Team,
Mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

--
Buckle Up it makes it harder for the aliens to suck you out of the car.


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mandrake 7.2 for sale?

2000-11-08 Thread Lam, Yochai


is there a place where i can buy the mandrake 7.2 package (..i.e. full
version).?

Yochai Lam
networking management
dev.dept.kla-tencor israel
hatikshoret 4 st.ramat gavriel
migdal haemek.
israel
972-6-6449482 (+voice)
972-58-531689 (cell.)
 Lam, Yochai.vcf 

 Lam, Yochai.vcf

Re: mandrake 7.2 for sale?

2000-11-08 Thread Gilad Ben-Yossef


"Lam, Yochai" wrote:
 
 is there a place where i can buy the mandrake 7.2 package (..i.e. full
 version).?

Call Artnet. http://www.artnet.co.il

Gilad.
-- 
Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
http://benyossef.com :: +972(54)756701
"Don't confuse me with facts, my mind's already made up!"

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BAD SDRAM for sale?

2000-10-27 Thread Hetz Ben Hamo


Hi All,

I'm looking for a BAD SDRAM sticks to buy and put them here at home on
some of my linux machines (with the BADRAM patch)..

Anyone knows who sells stuff like that? 


-- 
Hetz

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Re: THIS DEFINITELY LOOKS LIKE SPAM (was: Re: 4 sale...(yes, again..) , :-))

2000-08-11 Thread Ely Levy


Well it someone selling his personall computer that no really a spam
or complitly off topic..
IMHO anyhow..


Ely Levy
System group
Hebrew University 
Jerusalem Israel



On Fri, 11 Aug 2000, Omer Zak wrote:

|  At least, this time the guy has contact information which is accessible
|  to the deaf.
| --- Omer
|  WARNING TO SPAMMERS:see at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
|  
|  On Fri, 11 Aug 2000, TaLinux wrote:
|  
|   hi gang !!
|  
|   well , after much success with theprevious add , i would like to use
|   your services one more time...this time with something much cheaper :
|  
|   desktop pc, including :
|  
|   p II333
|   160 mb ram
|   hd 6.4 wd udma
|   cd X 36
|   1.44
|   bunshee 16mb agp
|   sb 16 isa
|   modem 56.600
|   midi tower atx
|   mag 15"
|   mouse
|   keybord
|  
|   please contact me to 051-473382
|   and please DO NOT reply this Email regarding this add...
|   10x...
|  
|  
|  
|   ---
|  _|_|_  Best Regard's ,
|   ( )   *  Amir Tal,  
|   /v\  /   System Administrator
|   /( )XIntercomp Ltd.
|  (m_m)  
|   | |  ICQ : 15748705
|   | (_)_ __Office : 09-9526993.
|   | | | '_ \| | | \ \/ / 
|   | | | | | | |_| |
|   |_)_|_|_| |_|__,_/_/\
|   visit us at www.legacy2web.com.
|   ---
|  
|  
|  =
|  To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
|  the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command
|  echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|  
|  


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Re: You ruled me out as a potential customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)

2000-08-10 Thread Ira Abramov


On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Udi Finkelstein wrote:

  Ram - 294Mb 133 Mhz
 c'mon - 294MB?? It's not even a 32MB multiple.

[ira@ax ira]$ echo "294/32"|bc
9

I would guess 2 128M DIMMS and a spare 32 from somewhere, but a valid
point on the Athlon with Intel chipset :-)

and Tal: if it's not pre-installed with Linux it's off topic :-))


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RE: You ruled me out as a potential customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)

2000-08-10 Thread Mevorach, Assaf


128 X 2 = 256
 + 32 = 288 
..and another couple of simms of 4 and 2 MB from old 486, (at 133MHz for
sure... )

-Original Message-
From: Ira Abramov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 11:26 AM
To: FLiCK
Subject: Re: You ruled me out as a potential customer (was: Re: 4
sale...)


On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Udi Finkelstein wrote:

  Ram - 294Mb 133 Mhz
 c'mon - 294MB?? It's not even a 32MB multiple.

[ira@ax ira]$ echo "294/32"|bc
9

I would guess 2 128M DIMMS and a spare 32 from somewhere, but a valid
point on the Athlon with Intel chipset :-)

and Tal: if it's not pre-installed with Linux it's off topic :-))


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Re: You ruled me out as a potential customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)


On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Ira Abramov wrote:

 On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Udi Finkelstein wrote:
 
   Ram - 294Mb 133 Mhz
  c'mon - 294MB?? It's not even a 32MB multiple.
 
 [ira@ax ira]$ echo "294/32"|bc
 9

Ira: you need to learn about the -l flag to bc

--
Moshe Zadka [EMAIL PROTECTED]
There is no IGLU cabal.
http://advogato.org/person/moshez


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Re: You ruled me out as a potential customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)

2000-08-10 Thread Nadav Har'El


On Thu, Aug 10, 2000, Ira Abramov wrote about "Re: You ruled me out as a potential 
customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)":
 On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Udi Finkelstein wrote:
 
   Ram - 294Mb 133 Mhz
  c'mon - 294MB?? It's not even a 32MB multiple.
 
 [ira@ax ira]$ echo "294/32"|bc
 9
 
 I would guess 2 128M DIMMS and a spare 32 from somewhere, but a valid
 point on the Athlon with Intel chipset :-)
 
 and Tal: if it's not pre-installed with Linux it's off topic :-))

We're getting more and more off-topic by the moment, but I just had to say
something about bc (a Linux issue, isn't it?) - Ira, bc's default is to print
0 (yes, that's right, zero) digits after the decimal point

runing
echo "scale=6; 294/32"|bc 
will get you the correct answer,  9.187500

Because of bc's annoying limitations and syntax, I usually use my own version
of Brian Kernighan's HOC:

/home/nyh$ hoc
Welcome to the NYH HOC interpreter.
Release 9.1.1 (revision 119), Fri Apr  4 16:48:41 IDT 1997.
hoc 294/32
9.1875

Someday I'll talk with Kernighan about making my version of HOC free
software... Till then, remember bc's 'scale' variable, or use xcalc :)



-- 
Nadav Har'El| Thursday, Aug 10 2000, 9 Av 5760
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A smart man always covers his ass. A
http://nadav.harel.org.il   |wise man just keeps his pants on.

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Re: You ruled me out as a potential customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)

2000-08-10 Thread Ira Abramov


On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Moshe Zadka wrote:

  [ira@ax ira]$ echo "294/32"|bc
  9
 
 Ira: you need to learn about the -l flag to bc

I forgot to set the sarcazm bit I suppose. ok, then set stupid flame
bit, here I go:

OH YEAH?! well your preacious Python is also wrong!

[root@iglu /root]# python
Python 1.5.2 (#1, Feb  1 2000, 16:32:16)  [GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs- on 
linux-i386
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
 294/32
9

(turn off flame bit and stupid bit, cynic bit on)

 294.0/32
9.1875

you can saw through the DIMM very gently. 2 128meg DIMMS,  one 32meg and
another one sawn 0.1875 of the way through. good for saving on slots.

-- 
Ira Abramov, GNU/Linux advocate.
(@- 
//\ "Akamai, Google, MicroSoft, Sun, Oracle, Intel, NASA, Sony, 
v_/_Python, JPG, PNG - CS masturbation is changing the world."
 -- C.S. explaining her views on masturbation to Linus, 3/7/2000


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Re: You ruled me out as a potential customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)


On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote:

 On Thu, Aug 10, 2000, Ira Abramov wrote about "Re: You ruled me out as a potential 
customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)":
  On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Udi Finkelstein wrote:
  
Ram - 294Mb 133 Mhz
   c'mon - 294MB?? It's not even a 32MB multiple.
  
  [ira@ax ira]$ echo "294/32"|bc
  9
  
  I would guess 2 128M DIMMS and a spare 32 from somewhere, but a valid
  point on the Athlon with Intel chipset :-)
  
  and Tal: if it's not pre-installed with Linux it's off topic :-))
 
 We're getting more and more off-topic by the moment, but I just had to say
 something about bc (a Linux issue, isn't it?) - Ira, bc's default is to print
 0 (yes, that's right, zero) digits after the decimal point
 
 runing
   echo "scale=6; 294/32"|bc 
 will get you the correct answer,  9.187500
 
 Because of bc's annoying limitations and syntax, I usually use my own version
 of Brian Kernighan's HOC:
 
 /home/nyh$ hoc
 Welcome to the NYH HOC interpreter.
 Release 9.1.1 (revision 119), Fri Apr  4 16:48:41 IDT 1997.
 hoc 294/32
 9.1875
 
 Someday I'll talk with Kernighan about making my version of HOC free
 software... Till then, remember bc's 'scale' variable, or use xcalc :)

Or,

perl -e 'print 294/32'

or

python -c 'print 294.0/32'

or

echo 'puts [expr 294.0/32]' | tclsh

(many others snipped)


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Re: You ruled me out as a potential customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)

2000-08-10 Thread Nadav Har'El


On Thu, Aug 10, 2000, Moshe Zadka wrote about "Re: You ruled me out as a potential 
customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)":
  software... Till then, remember bc's 'scale' variable, or use xcalc :)
 
 Or,
 
 perl -e 'print 294/32'

Better make that perl -e 'print 294/32,"\n"'

(in zsh for example, the prompt hides the partial line if you forget the
newline).

 or
 
 python -c 'print 294.0/32'
 
 or
 
 echo 'puts [expr 294.0/32]' | tclsh
 
 (many others snipped)

-- 
Nadav Har'El| Thursday, Aug 10 2000, 9 Av 5760
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |You have the right to remain silent.
http://nadav.harel.org.il   |Anything you say will be used against you.

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Re: You ruled me out as a potential customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)

2000-08-10 Thread Omer Musaev


Moshe Zadka wrote:

 Or,

 perl -e 'print 294/32'

 or

 python -c 'print 294.0/32'

 or

 echo 'puts [expr 294.0/32]' | tclsh

rage-[11:15:51]-~$echo 294.0 32kK/p|dc
9.1875


--
Omer Mussaev051-308-214   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
systems programmer, Mercury Interactive/RND/Conduct/core



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Re: You ruled me out as a potential customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)


On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Moshe Zadka wrote:

 perl -e 'print 294/32'
 
 or
 
 python -c 'print 294.0/32'
 
 or
 
 echo 'puts [expr 294.0/32]' | tclsh
 
 (many others snipped)
 

One cute way I snipped:
echo 'main() {printf("%f\n", 294.0/32);}' | gcc -x c /dev/fd/0 ;a.out

(more variations on this theme: look in Debians inteepreters/ directory,
and do the same with everything there)

--
Moshe Zadka [EMAIL PROTECTED]
There is no IGLU cabal.
http://advogato.org/person/moshez


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Re: You ruled me out as a potential customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)


On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Omer Musaev wrote:

 rage-[11:15:51]-~$echo 294.0 32kK/p|dc
 9.1875

And, of course,

awk 'BEGIN {print 294.0/32}'  /dev/null

--
Moshe Zadka [EMAIL PROTECTED]
There is no IGLU cabal.
http://advogato.org/person/moshez


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Re: You ruled me out as a potential customer (was: Re: 4 sale...)