Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Dave Warren]

On 2016-08-21 05:50, Paul Mather wrote:

Not to sound like an apologist or a shill for the pfSense project, but in the line just above the "Products" 
link that you presumably clicked on, right at the very top of the page, is a link labelled "Store".  On the 
same line as the "Store" link is a "Partner Locator" link that goes to a page with a list of MSP, 
VAR, and Retail companies.  That might have been a good place to find official pfSense hardware.:-)


Perhaps. But when I went to the product comparison page, I found none 
were even close to what I need; it's not that I wasn't aware of the 
store, but rather, there was no reason to visit the store to look at 
products that I wasn't going to buy.


If /products is intended to be an overview, why not replace the specific 
model entries with categories that show the ranges of prices and 
capabilities, and change the "More Details" buttons to link to products 
within those families? Or at least give some clue that there are other 
offerings in some obvious way.


Even so, I'm not sure it would have mattered, 799USD is still a lot for 
what it is; I spent under 100CAD on a 1U server from eBay that will 
probably do more than I'll need for the immediate future. I'll probably 
just buy Gold and call it a day.


--
Dave Warren
http://www.hireahit.com/
http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davejwarren


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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[WebDawg]

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 12:56 AM, Dave Warren  wrote:
> On 2016-08-20 04:02, Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>
>>> On Aug 20, 2016, at 3:10 AM, Dave Warren  wrote:
>>>
 On 2016-08-03 08:43, Steve Yates wrote:
 I'm being serious but what is your rationale for not using
 pfSense's/NetGate's?

 https://www.pfsense.org/products/

 The "cheap" part (< $299)?  We tried a "build our own" approach and it's
 tough to get a small package.  Any old PC will do just fine if one adds an
 SSD but as someone pointed out that may use far more power in the long run.
>>>
>>> For me, it's the fact that I want to rackmount my gear, but $1,799.00 is
>>> the cheapest option offered on pfSense.org that can rackmount.
>>
>> You seem to have added $1000 without justification:
>>
>> https://store.pfsense.org/SG-4860-1U/
>
>
> Perhaps someone should put that on the https://pfsense.org/ website?
>
> I started at https://pfsense.org/, then clicked on Products, which took me
> to https://pfsense.org/products/ which only offers
> https://store.pfsense.org/XG-2758/ when I was looking for a new product a
> couple weeks ago. It didn't occur to me you would have multiple incomplete
> lists of products, so I ordered hardware elsewhere already. Shame, I'd
> rather have supported pfSense, but it's too late now.
>
> --
> Dave Warren
> http://www.hireahit.com/
> http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davejwarren
>
>

I noticed that too last time I went to purchase hardware from the
pfSense store.  I like this link better:

https://store.pfsense.org/

If you click into the menu on the left it lets you sort and such.

I think the first page right off the main site is designed to help
people who know little about the offerings to get an overview.
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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Paul Mather]

On Aug 21, 2016, at 4:03 PM, Bryan D.  wrote:

> On 2016-Aug-21, at 5:50 AM, Paul Mather  wrote:
> 
>> Even on that page it's incorrect to say it "only" offers the XG-2758.  
>> That's the only one they show in the main table on that page ...
> 
> There's likely good science behind the fact that nearly all e-stores will 
> present (often overwhelming) detail, by default, along with various filters 
> to narrow down the products of interest.
> 
> I've also experienced the "you have to make an effort to find it" aspect of 
> the pfSense store pages.  Not ideal.  Sales will be lost, as this incident 
> demonstrates.
> 
> Blaming a would-be customer for not seeing/finding something on a 
> catalog/store/marketing page is probably not a good strategy as it won't help 
> sales.


I'm not blaming any customer for anything, and, in case I wasn't overly clear 
when I said, "Not to sound like an apologist or a shill for the pfSense 
project", I don't work for nor am I in any way affiliated with the pfSense 
Store except that I am a prior customer (who figured out how to use their Web 
site).

I'll refrain from further comment on this topic as it appears to be veering 
into the more heat than light category.

Cheers,

Paul.
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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Peder Rovelstad]

>  Blaming a would-be customer for not seeing/finding something on a
catalog/store/marketing page is probably not a good strategy as it won't
help sales.

I'd 'Like' this myself, but I don't have thumbs.

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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Bryan D.]

On 2016-Aug-21, at 5:50 AM, Paul Mather  wrote:

> Even on that page it's incorrect to say it "only" offers the XG-2758.  That's 
> the only one they show in the main table on that page ...

There's likely good science behind the fact that nearly all e-stores will 
present (often overwhelming) detail, by default, along with various filters to 
narrow down the products of interest.

I've also experienced the "you have to make an effort to find it" aspect of the 
pfSense store pages.  Not ideal.  Sales will be lost, as this incident 
demonstrates.

Blaming a would-be customer for not seeing/finding something on a 
catalog/store/marketing page is probably not a good strategy as it won't help 
sales.

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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Bret Busby]

On 21/08/2016, Paul Mather  wrote:
> On Aug 21, 2016, at 2:56 AM, Dave Warren  wrote:
>



>
>> I started at https://pfsense.org/, then clicked on Products, which took me
>> to https://pfsense.org/products/ which only offers
>> https://store.pfsense.org/XG-2758/ when I was looking for a new product a
>> couple weeks ago. It didn't occur to me you would have multiple incomplete
>> lists of products, so I ordered hardware elsewhere already.
>
>
> Even on that page it's incorrect to say it "only" offers the XG-2758.
> That's the only one they show in the main table on that page (which
> presumably is only a "recommended selection" of what they offer, to avoid
> the table becoming overcrowded).  If you click on the big red "PRODUCT
> FAMILY" link above that then you get a listing that includes the SG-4860-1U.
>  Plus all of the "MORE DETAILS" links in the main table take you to the
> pfSense Store, where, presumably those curious would browse further (and see
> that they sell, e.g., high availability solutions).
>
>
>> Shame, I'd rather have supported pfSense, but it's too late now.
>
>
> If you'd been keen on supporting the pfSense project then you'd have done
> well to read the "Official Product Comparison" section of the "Products"
> page you mention above.  It talks about the benefits of supporting the
> project, but, moreover, contains obvious links to "The pfSense Store" and
> "pfSense Partner".
>
> I guess you were in a big hurry when you ordered and missed reading that?
> ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Paul.

Thank you for that.

As a person who has just found this (trapped in gmail spam folder), in
going to the web page at
https://pfsense.org/products/https://pfsense.org/products/ , I found
the SG-2220 and SG-2440, and, as a WiFi add-on appears available (or,
I could buy locally, and, plug into an Ethernet port, an Ethernet/WiFi
router, like we have here, now, at one end of the house), I think that
I could use one of those (probably, the latter; the 2440, with the 4
LAN Ethernet ports), to replace our current firewall gateway computer
(for which, I have forgotten all of the passwords), when we are forced
to change from ADSL to what in Australia , is named the NBN, in a few
months time.

>From what I understand, these devices come with pfsense pre-installed,
with the default settings, to implement

"
 All incoming connections to WAN are blocked
All outgoing connections from LAN are allowed
"

which I understand to mean we can go out, from the LAN, but, people
trying to come in, from the WAN, are blocked, which is (to me) a good
starting point, that would probably (for our uses) not need adjusting.

And, I understand that these devices allow the preinstalled pfsense,
to be configured by the LAN administrator, using either command line
or GUI interfaces, so as to implement connection to a WAN modem, and,
to LAN clients (which may(?) be the only configuration needed, for a
simple  but effective firewall for a small LAN with less than a dozen
clients).

And, at 299USD (?) and 499USD(?), respectively, they appear to me, to
be quite worthwhile.

If I am wrong, in any of my understandings, as mentioned here,
corrections would be welcome.

-- 

Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia

..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992


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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Paul Mather]

On Aug 21, 2016, at 2:56 AM, Dave Warren  wrote:

> On 2016-08-20 04:02, Jim Thompson wrote:
>>> On Aug 20, 2016, at 3:10 AM, Dave Warren  wrote:
>>> 
 On 2016-08-03 08:43, Steve Yates wrote:
 I'm being serious but what is your rationale for not using 
 pfSense's/NetGate's?
 
 https://www.pfsense.org/products/
 
 The "cheap" part (< $299)?  We tried a "build our own" approach and it's 
 tough to get a small package.  Any old PC will do just fine if one adds an 
 SSD but as someone pointed out that may use far more power in the long run.
>>> For me, it's the fact that I want to rackmount my gear, but $1,799.00 is 
>>> the cheapest option offered on pfSense.org that can rackmount.
>> You seem to have added $1000 without justification:
>> 
>> https://store.pfsense.org/SG-4860-1U/
> 
> Perhaps someone should put that on the https://pfsense.org/ website?


Not to sound like an apologist or a shill for the pfSense project, but in the 
line just above the "Products" link that you presumably clicked on, right at 
the very top of the page, is a link labelled "Store".  On the same line as the 
"Store" link is a "Partner Locator" link that goes to a page with a list of 
MSP, VAR, and Retail companies.  That might have been a good place to find 
official pfSense hardware. :-)


> I started at https://pfsense.org/, then clicked on Products, which took me to 
> https://pfsense.org/products/ which only offers 
> https://store.pfsense.org/XG-2758/ when I was looking for a new product a 
> couple weeks ago. It didn't occur to me you would have multiple incomplete 
> lists of products, so I ordered hardware elsewhere already.


Even on that page it's incorrect to say it "only" offers the XG-2758.  That's 
the only one they show in the main table on that page (which presumably is only 
a "recommended selection" of what they offer, to avoid the table becoming 
overcrowded).  If you click on the big red "PRODUCT FAMILY" link above that 
then you get a listing that includes the SG-4860-1U.  Plus all of the "MORE 
DETAILS" links in the main table take you to the pfSense Store, where, 
presumably those curious would browse further (and see that they sell, e.g., 
high availability solutions).


> Shame, I'd rather have supported pfSense, but it's too late now.


If you'd been keen on supporting the pfSense project then you'd have done well 
to read the "Official Product Comparison" section of the "Products" page you 
mention above.  It talks about the benefits of supporting the project, but, 
moreover, contains obvious links to "The pfSense Store" and "pfSense Partner".

I guess you were in a big hurry when you ordered and missed reading that? ;-)

Cheers,

Paul.
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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Eero Volotinen]

Who is reselling lanner units in europe?

I just bought one lanner unit from china.it looks perfect for my home
usage..

Eero

21.8.2016 10.22 ap. "Kendrick Vargas"  kirjoitti:

> Don't know how late I am to the game on this suggestion, but I am quite
> happy with the Lanner Inc. product I bought. I was able to get them to sell
> me a single unit, the cost was fine for my needs (at the time an Atom
> D510). They're rackable, and my FW-7539 has been running non-stop for
> years. I can't speak for performance as my needs are really simple.
>
> http://www.lannerinc.com/products/x86-network-appliances/desktop/
>
> Just make sure to get the components necessary to boot it up (you may need
> vga adapters, etc.)
>
>
>  -peace
>
> On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 2:56 AM, Dave Warren  wrote:
>
> > On 2016-08-20 04:02, Jim Thompson wrote:
> >
> >> On Aug 20, 2016, at 3:10 AM, Dave Warren  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 2016-08-03 08:43, Steve Yates wrote:
>  I'm being serious but what is your rationale for not using
>  pfSense's/NetGate's?
> 
>  https://www.pfsense.org/products/
> 
>  The "cheap" part (< $299)?  We tried a "build our own" approach and
>  it's tough to get a small package.  Any old PC will do just fine if
> one
>  adds an SSD but as someone pointed out that may use far more power in
> the
>  long run.
> 
> >>> For me, it's the fact that I want to rackmount my gear, but $1,799.00
> is
> >>> the cheapest option offered on pfSense.org that can rackmount.
> >>>
> >> You seem to have added $1000 without justification:
> >>
> >> https://store.pfsense.org/SG-4860-1U/
> >>
> >
> > Perhaps someone should put that on the https://pfsense.org/ website?
> >
> > I started at https://pfsense.org/, then clicked on Products, which took
> > me to https://pfsense.org/products/ which only offers
> > https://store.pfsense.org/XG-2758/ when I was looking for a new product
> a
> > couple weeks ago. It didn't occur to me you would have multiple
> incomplete
> > lists of products, so I ordered hardware elsewhere already. Shame, I'd
> > rather have supported pfSense, but it's too late now.
> >
> > --
> > Dave Warren
> > http://www.hireahit.com/
> > http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davejwarren
> >
> >
> > ___
> > pfSense mailing list
> > https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
> > Support the project with Gold! https://pfsense.org/gold
> >
> ___
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> Support the project with Gold! https://pfsense.org/gold
>
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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Kendrick Vargas]

Don't know how late I am to the game on this suggestion, but I am quite
happy with the Lanner Inc. product I bought. I was able to get them to sell
me a single unit, the cost was fine for my needs (at the time an Atom
D510). They're rackable, and my FW-7539 has been running non-stop for
years. I can't speak for performance as my needs are really simple.

http://www.lannerinc.com/products/x86-network-appliances/desktop/

Just make sure to get the components necessary to boot it up (you may need
vga adapters, etc.)


 -peace

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 2:56 AM, Dave Warren  wrote:

> On 2016-08-20 04:02, Jim Thompson wrote:
>
>> On Aug 20, 2016, at 3:10 AM, Dave Warren  wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2016-08-03 08:43, Steve Yates wrote:
 I'm being serious but what is your rationale for not using
 pfSense's/NetGate's?

 https://www.pfsense.org/products/

 The "cheap" part (< $299)?  We tried a "build our own" approach and
 it's tough to get a small package.  Any old PC will do just fine if one
 adds an SSD but as someone pointed out that may use far more power in the
 long run.

>>> For me, it's the fact that I want to rackmount my gear, but $1,799.00 is
>>> the cheapest option offered on pfSense.org that can rackmount.
>>>
>> You seem to have added $1000 without justification:
>>
>> https://store.pfsense.org/SG-4860-1U/
>>
>
> Perhaps someone should put that on the https://pfsense.org/ website?
>
> I started at https://pfsense.org/, then clicked on Products, which took
> me to https://pfsense.org/products/ which only offers
> https://store.pfsense.org/XG-2758/ when I was looking for a new product a
> couple weeks ago. It didn't occur to me you would have multiple incomplete
> lists of products, so I ordered hardware elsewhere already. Shame, I'd
> rather have supported pfSense, but it's too late now.
>
> --
> Dave Warren
> http://www.hireahit.com/
> http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davejwarren
>
>
> ___
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> Support the project with Gold! https://pfsense.org/gold
>
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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Dave Warren]

On 2016-08-20 04:02, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Aug 20, 2016, at 3:10 AM, Dave Warren  wrote:


On 2016-08-03 08:43, Steve Yates wrote:
I'm being serious but what is your rationale for not using pfSense's/NetGate's?

https://www.pfsense.org/products/

The "cheap" part (< $299)?  We tried a "build our own" approach and it's tough 
to get a small package.  Any old PC will do just fine if one adds an SSD but as someone pointed out 
that may use far more power in the long run.

For me, it's the fact that I want to rackmount my gear, but $1,799.00 is the 
cheapest option offered on pfSense.org that can rackmount.

You seem to have added $1000 without justification:

https://store.pfsense.org/SG-4860-1U/


Perhaps someone should put that on the https://pfsense.org/ website?

I started at https://pfsense.org/, then clicked on Products, which took 
me to https://pfsense.org/products/ which only offers 
https://store.pfsense.org/XG-2758/ when I was looking for a new product 
a couple weeks ago. It didn't occur to me you would have multiple 
incomplete lists of products, so I ordered hardware elsewhere already. 
Shame, I'd rather have supported pfSense, but it's too late now.


--
Dave Warren
http://www.hireahit.com/
http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davejwarren


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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Jim Thompson]

-- Jim

> On Aug 20, 2016, at 3:10 AM, Dave Warren  wrote:
> 
>> On 2016-08-03 08:43, Steve Yates wrote:
>> I'm being serious but what is your rationale for not using 
>> pfSense's/NetGate's?
>> 
>> https://www.pfsense.org/products/
>> 
>> The "cheap" part (< $299)?  We tried a "build our own" approach and it's 
>> tough to get a small package.  Any old PC will do just fine if one adds an 
>> SSD but as someone pointed out that may use far more power in the long run.
> 
> For me, it's the fact that I want to rackmount my gear, but $1,799.00 is the 
> cheapest option offered on pfSense.org that can rackmount.

You seem to have added $1000 without justification:

https://store.pfsense.org/SG-4860-1U/

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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Dave Warren]

On 2016-08-03 08:43, Steve Yates wrote:

I'm being serious but what is your rationale for not using pfSense's/NetGate's?

https://www.pfsense.org/products/

The "cheap" part (< $299)?  We tried a "build our own" approach and it's tough 
to get a small package.  Any old PC will do just fine if one adds an SSD but as someone pointed out 
that may use far more power in the long run.


For me, it's the fact that I want to rackmount my gear, but $1,799.00 is 
the cheapest option offered on pfSense.org that can rackmount.


--
Dave Warren
http://www.hireahit.com/
http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davejwarren


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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Moshe Katz]

Jim,

I have to say that I agree with everything that you wrote. I am no stranger
to the problems and concerns that plague funding of open-source software,
and to the one-sided expectation of many (perhaps even most) users.

My original concern was merely about implications of the particular
message, and I'm glad to find that I was reading too much into those words.

I look forward to continuing to support pfSense with my participation and,
in the future, purchases when the opportunity presents itself for me to do
so.


Moshe

--
Moshe Katz
-- mo...@ymkatz.net
-- +1(301)867-3732

On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Jim Thompson  wrote:

>
> > On Aug 3, 2016, at 9:18 PM, Moshe Katz  wrote:
> >
> > Maybe I'm reading too much into points 1 (second paragraph) and 4 of
> your message, but it sounds somewhat hostile to the old
> use-your-own-hardware selling point that brought me into the pfSense
> community ten years ago in the first place.
>
> Moshe,
>
> Thanks for your kind words. I appreciate your reaching out. I think that
> perhaps you are over-reading my response.
>
> Use-your-own hardware (if you want) is still a key point of pfSense, and
> it's not changing, even though I get challenged frequently on same both
> inside and outside the company.
>
> I've literally had people (outside the company) challenge me during the
> past 24 hours that there is "no barrier to entry" for people entering the
> market to sell appliances based on pfSense software (typically on Amazon or
> eBay).
>
> This is truth.
>
> We carry on anyway.
>
> Personally, I think pfSense has gotten a lot better during the past
> several years as we've been able to bring dedicated professional staff to
> bear on the process of keeping up to date with our upstream project(s),
> rather than lagging by several years.  All the changes to the toolchain to
> support this remain open source.
>
> Case in point: 2.4 snapshots will begin shortly, based on FreeBSD 11,
> which is not yet in release candidate form.  MPD and captive portal don't
> work, but these will be fixed before 2.4-release.  The captive portal work
> will serve to decrease our technical debt, due to the elimination of
> several patches found in pfSense that will never be upstreamed, and are not
> up to our standards of quality.  2.4 will also bring the ARM architecture
> to pfSense. We've also moved to bsdinstall, which means that ZFS is an
> option during install. Moving from PBI to pkg-ng as part of 2.3 enabled
> this work. This move included a huge improvement in the build tools to be a
> lot more like those found in FreeBSD. Work in this area continues.
>
> Past efforts to improve both FreeBSD and pfSense include bringing AES-GCM
> to IPsec. Work continues on making the stack faster and better, see our
> paper, Measurement and Improvement of a software based IPsec implementation
> to be given at Eurobsdcon next month.
> https://2016.eurobsdcon.org/speakers/  (this effort is a pre-requisite to
> making QAT work at speed.)
>
> The entire FreeBSD community (including various forks of pfSense) benefits
> from these efforts, just as the entire pfSense community benefits both from
> these efforts as well as those of outside collaborators like BBCan117
> (pfblockerNG) or Denny Page (dpinger, bringing the NUT package back to
> 2.3+) or Bill Meeks (Snort and Suricatta) or Phil Davis (space does not
> allow me to begin to enumerate Phil's contributions) or even Kill
> Bill/doktornotor.   I hesitate mentioning these because I have left many
> others out, and I do not mean to slight their efforts by not mentioning
> them.
>
> All of it, every single piece, is under a liberal open source license.
>
> But it remains true that there would not be a project but for the core
> developers and core contributors.  We preferentially employ FreeBSD
> committers to work on pfSense. This has always been true. Running the
> project takes funds.
>
> - Donations don't work, and we ask that anyone who wants to donate to
> pfSense instead donate to the FreeBSD Foundation.
> - Support does not scale.
> - Appliance sales do.
>
> I am not blocking BYOH, nor have I made any plans to do so.  I'm not
> hostile to it at all, Moshe.
>
> This said, people selling appliances based on pfSense *who do not
> otherwise contribute to pfSense* (or worse, who work against pfSense), are
> not part of the solution.
>
> Applianceshop/Deciso, and every one of their "opnsense" partners still
> also offer pfSense on the same appliances. None of them contribute to
> pfSense, all are willing to see it destroyed.  I do not endorse or support
> these companies and individuals.
>
> Any number of parties on eBay and Amazon (and elsewhere) sell pfSense
> appliances, but none of them contribute to pfSense or FreeBSD. I don't
> block these, though I do insist that they correctly use our trademarks.
> That said, I do not endorse or support these parties, as they do not
> participate in the project or 

Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Bob Gustafson]

+1


On 08/04/2016 06:50 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:

Open source is no different, there are sill value exchanges that must exist. 
All sides must be content with the exchange.

I look forward to your response.

Jim


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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Jim Thompson]

> On Aug 3, 2016, at 9:18 PM, Moshe Katz  wrote:
> 
> Maybe I'm reading too much into points 1 (second paragraph) and 4 of your 
> message, but it sounds somewhat hostile to the old use-your-own-hardware 
> selling point that brought me into the pfSense community ten years ago in the 
> first place.

Moshe,

Thanks for your kind words. I appreciate your reaching out. I think that 
perhaps you are over-reading my response. 

Use-your-own hardware (if you want) is still a key point of pfSense, and it's 
not changing, even though I get challenged frequently on same both inside and 
outside the company.  

I've literally had people (outside the company) challenge me during the past 24 
hours that there is "no barrier to entry" for people entering the market to 
sell appliances based on pfSense software (typically on Amazon or eBay).

This is truth.

We carry on anyway.

Personally, I think pfSense has gotten a lot better during the past several 
years as we've been able to bring dedicated professional staff to bear on the 
process of keeping up to date with our upstream project(s), rather than lagging 
by several years.  All the changes to the toolchain to support this remain open 
source. 

Case in point: 2.4 snapshots will begin shortly, based on FreeBSD 11, which is 
not yet in release candidate form.  MPD and captive portal don't work, but 
these will be fixed before 2.4-release.  The captive portal work will serve to 
decrease our technical debt, due to the elimination of several patches found in 
pfSense that will never be upstreamed, and are not up to our standards of 
quality.  2.4 will also bring the ARM architecture to pfSense. We've also moved 
to bsdinstall, which means that ZFS is an option during install. Moving from 
PBI to pkg-ng as part of 2.3 enabled this work. This move included a huge 
improvement in the build tools to be a lot more like those found in FreeBSD. 
Work in this area continues. 

Past efforts to improve both FreeBSD and pfSense include bringing AES-GCM to 
IPsec. Work continues on making the stack faster and better, see our paper, 
Measurement and Improvement of a software based IPsec implementation to be 
given at Eurobsdcon next month. 
https://2016.eurobsdcon.org/speakers/  (this effort is a pre-requisite to 
making QAT work at speed.)

The entire FreeBSD community (including various forks of pfSense) benefits from 
these efforts, just as the entire pfSense community benefits both from these 
efforts as well as those of outside collaborators like BBCan117 (pfblockerNG) 
or Denny Page (dpinger, bringing the NUT package back to 2.3+) or Bill Meeks 
(Snort and Suricatta) or Phil Davis (space does not allow me to begin to 
enumerate Phil's contributions) or even Kill Bill/doktornotor.   I hesitate 
mentioning these because I have left many others out, and I do not mean to 
slight their efforts by not mentioning them.

All of it, every single piece, is under a liberal open source license. 

But it remains true that there would not be a project but for the core 
developers and core contributors.  We preferentially employ FreeBSD committers 
to work on pfSense. This has always been true. Running the project takes funds. 
 

- Donations don't work, and we ask that anyone who wants to donate to pfSense 
instead donate to the FreeBSD Foundation. 
- Support does not scale.
- Appliance sales do. 

I am not blocking BYOH, nor have I made any plans to do so.  I'm not hostile to 
it at all, Moshe. 

This said, people selling appliances based on pfSense *who do not otherwise 
contribute to pfSense* (or worse, who work against pfSense), are not part of 
the solution.

Applianceshop/Deciso, and every one of their "opnsense" partners still also 
offer pfSense on the same appliances. None of them contribute to pfSense, all 
are willing to see it destroyed.  I do not endorse or support these companies 
and individuals. 

Any number of parties on eBay and Amazon (and elsewhere) sell pfSense 
appliances, but none of them contribute to pfSense or FreeBSD. I don't block 
these, though I do insist that they correctly use our trademarks. That said, I 
do not endorse or support these parties, as they do not participate in the 
project or upstream, while freely availing themselves of our efforts. 

Companies as large as VMware, Cisco and Avaya have forks or components of 
pfSense as part of their product set. None of them contribute to pfSense or 
FreeBSD. We are approached several times per week by companies large and small, 
almost always with a one-way deal.

In every healthy relationship there is an exchange of value where each party 
gets something out of the exchange, even if it is relatively small.  This can 
be a deliberate exchange, or it can be embedded in social interaction and 
conversation.

Value may be a perception of benefit, rather than something material.  It may 
or may not be quantifiable and it may be highly valued or of limited value. It 
may also be 

Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Ryan Coleman]

Ahh, well, it’s hard to tell when you don’t give a name but a blanket response 
without a quoted email.


> On Aug 3, 2016, at 8:59 PM, Jim Thompson  wrote:
> 
> My response was not directed at you, Ryan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Ryan Coleman  wrote:
> 
>> Correction. Instead the system is ON an open-SOURCE platform.
>> 
>>> On Aug 3, 2016, at 8:43 PM, Ryan Coleman  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Instead the system is open platform.
>> 
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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Moshe Katz]

Jim,

As a long-time member of this list, a former contributor (and hopefully
future contributor again once my work allows), and a major proponent of
pfSense any time I hear anyone talking about purchasing new firewalls (I
even wrote a paper back in college about using and contributing back to
pfSense), I have to say that I was a bit taken aback by the tone of your
last post.

While no one (that I know of) denies that supporting the company by buying
appliances is a great way to make sure the project keeps going and a way to
say thanks for the great work that you do, I seem to recall that one of the
old major selling points of pfSense was that you could run it on just about
any hardware. In fact, for many home and small business users (less than 30
machines with up to 75Mbps Internet connections) for whom I have set up
pfSense, I have done the setup using only old components scavenged from
computers that the home or business was retiring because they were too slow
to run Windows.  All of those machines are still running, except for one
which got fried by a lightning hit.  Additionally, all of those machines,
including at least one old Pentium 4, are performing well enough to max out
whatever Internet connection the entity is paying for.

I highly recommend purchasing branded pfSense hardware for business use and
faster Internet speeds (a wholehearted and unreserved recommendation
despite having never done so myself), but the pfSense *software project* has
a long history of use with non-branded hardware which has been discussed
and supported by the community on this list many times in the past.

Maybe I'm reading too much into points 1 (second paragraph) and 4 of your
message, but it sounds somewhat hostile to the old use-your-own-hardware
selling point that brought me into the pfSense community ten years ago in
the first place.

Moshe

--
Moshe Katz
-- mo...@ymkatz.net
-- +1(301)867-3732

On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 9:36 PM, Jim Thompson  wrote:

> Here's all you need to know:
>
> 1) we only test releases on the hardware we sell, or have sold in the past
> two years.  (Obviously doesn't include VM images.)
>
> We don't intentionally break anything, but your J1900 box isn't in the test
> matrix, nor will it ever be.  That said, we have included
> fixes for hardware that we'll never ship.  The i217s on recent Intel NUCs
> is one example.
>
> 2) Many people are employed making pfSense.   Appliance sales make up  the
> largest part of the revenue that keeps them employed working on pfSense.
>
> If you want to support the project and make pfSense better, you’re welcome
> to submit bugs or develop fixes. If you’re not a developer but want to
> support the project, you can always purchase a Gold Subscription"
>
> 3) At the ram densities involved, ECC isn't going to buy you much.  If we
> were doing storage, the story would be different, but given the relative
> error rates of Ethernet and non-ECC RAM, you're unlikely to ever detect a
> bit error.  Those of you still running on CF or "SD Cards" should worry
> about your storage, not ECC ram.
>
> We could have put ECC on the RCC-VE boards, and chose not to.  There isn't
> a good reason for raising the cost (and therefore price).
>
> 4) Your enthusiasm for your j1900 box is understood, but this is the
> pfsense list.
>
> You're a guest.  Be nice.
>
> Jim
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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Jim Thompson]

My response was not directed at you, Ryan.




On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Ryan Coleman  wrote:

> Correction. Instead the system is ON an open-SOURCE platform.
>
> > On Aug 3, 2016, at 8:43 PM, Ryan Coleman  wrote:
> >
> >  Instead the system is open platform.
>
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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Ryan Coleman]

Correction. Instead the system is ON an open-SOURCE platform.

> On Aug 3, 2016, at 8:43 PM, Ryan Coleman  wrote:
> 
>  Instead the system is open platform.

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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Ryan Coleman]

Jim,

I realize that - I’ve purchased thousands of dollars of your branded equipment 
to be installed at my corporate customer sites. However I find them lacking in 
some regards and have moved on to buying other hardware.

If you wanted to sell just your hardware to support the system you’d find a way 
to make it closed environment. Instead the system is open platform.

We’re guests, as is the pfSense product in our homes and business.

We are nice. We praise the product.

I simply find the cost for the hardware and the functionality of it beyond what 
I can personally purchase for small businesses that cannot even afford to buy 
the equipment themselves.

Ryan

> On Aug 3, 2016, at 8:36 PM, Jim Thompson  wrote:
> 
> Here's all you need to know:
> 
> 1) we only test releases on the hardware we sell, or have sold in the past
> two years.  (Obviously doesn't include VM images.)
> 
> We don't intentionally break anything, but your J1900 box isn't in the test
> matrix, nor will it ever be.  That said, we have included
> fixes for hardware that we'll never ship.  The i217s on recent Intel NUCs
> is one example.
> 
> 2) Many people are employed making pfSense.   Appliance sales make up  the
> largest part of the revenue that keeps them employed working on pfSense.
> 
> If you want to support the project and make pfSense better, you’re welcome
> to submit bugs or develop fixes. If you’re not a developer but want to
> support the project, you can always purchase a Gold Subscription"
> 
> 3) At the ram densities involved, ECC isn't going to buy you much.  If we
> were doing storage, the story would be different, but given the relative
> error rates of Ethernet and non-ECC RAM, you're unlikely to ever detect a
> bit error.  Those of you still running on CF or "SD Cards" should worry
> about your storage, not ECC ram.
> 
> We could have put ECC on the RCC-VE boards, and chose not to.  There isn't
> a good reason for raising the cost (and therefore price).
> 
> 4) Your enthusiasm for your j1900 box is understood, but this is the
> pfsense list.
> 
> You're a guest.  Be nice.
> 
> Jim
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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Jim Thompson]

Here's all you need to know:

1) we only test releases on the hardware we sell, or have sold in the past
two years.  (Obviously doesn't include VM images.)

We don't intentionally break anything, but your J1900 box isn't in the test
matrix, nor will it ever be.  That said, we have included
fixes for hardware that we'll never ship.  The i217s on recent Intel NUCs
is one example.

2) Many people are employed making pfSense.   Appliance sales make up  the
largest part of the revenue that keeps them employed working on pfSense.

If you want to support the project and make pfSense better, you’re welcome
to submit bugs or develop fixes. If you’re not a developer but want to
support the project, you can always purchase a Gold Subscription"

3) At the ram densities involved, ECC isn't going to buy you much.  If we
were doing storage, the story would be different, but given the relative
error rates of Ethernet and non-ECC RAM, you're unlikely to ever detect a
bit error.  Those of you still running on CF or "SD Cards" should worry
about your storage, not ECC ram.

We could have put ECC on the RCC-VE boards, and chose not to.  There isn't
a good reason for raising the cost (and therefore price).

4) Your enthusiasm for your j1900 box is understood, but this is the
pfsense list.

You're a guest.  Be nice.

Jim
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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Robert Obrinsky]

I put a Kill-a-Watt meter on it and measured it. During boot-up, it 
spiked around 58 watts. After settling down at boot, it seems to run 
consistently at 32-34 watts. Processor utilization rarely exceeds 6%. I 
run different firewall software but am running a web proxy with AV, 
snort, intermittent site-to-site VPNs when I need to connect to client 
sites for troubleshooting, SSL and L2TP remote access protocols.


I did have a problem with the on-board Intel NIC - could not handle 
heavy packet loads and would stop responding. Never figured out if it 
was a hardware problem or software problem with that particular model 
(Intel Corporation 82579LM Gigabit Network Connection) as opposed to the 
dual port cards (Intel Corporation 82571EB Gigabit Ethernet Controller) 
which have been working well.


In my case, I am willing to accept the power utilization for the 
flexibility to load just about any of the open source firewalls onto it.


On 8/3/2016 8:21 AM, rai...@ultra-secure.de wrote:

Am 2016-08-03 17:15, schrieb Robert Obrinsky:

I am currently using a refurb HP Elite 8200 SFF that I bought through
Newegg. I removed the video card so I could use the built-in video and
added 2 dual port HP gigabit NICs (Intels in reality) from Amazon. It
came with 4 GB RAM, 500 GB hard drive, and Core I-5 processor at 3.3
GHz. Very quiet. Upgraded the RAM to 8 GB.




How much energy does that thing consume then?

Because it runs all year 24x7, for years sometimes, it can make a huge 
difference buying a smaller and less power-hungry device.


AFAIK, the SG-devices are quite frugal in that respect.


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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Jeremy Bennett]

I can only second what everyone else has said...

If cheap is 'best', grab any old box and throw some NICs in it. Downsides
of this approach are power consumption and the associated 'mostly works'
weirdness of used hardware.

I've found a 4 port j1900 board in a case with rack mount brackets that I
put an MSATA SSD and 4 GB of memory in. It lives in my 7U office/lab rack
and may be the best PFsense box I've ever built. It has a VGA and USB port
on the front if I ever need to get at it that way, and while I am unsure of
the power consumption, at $250ish, I'm very happy with it (I recently
installed the NUT package and now the PFsense box is even talking to my
UPS–thanks to this list!).

When it comes to work (or if I weren't inclined to assemble the system
mentioned above), I always specify products from netgate or pfsense,
because they 'just work' and the support is awesome.

On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 6:13 AM, Karl Fife  wrote:

> Honestly that j1900 looks like a really great choice.
>
> I think the right questions would be whether you can tolerate the VGA
> console, whether it will cost more in terms of power consumption, whether
> you need the AES-NI instructions.  I was going to mention ECC ram, but the
> netgate box appears to be Non-ECC :-(
>
> Given the role and quantity of RAM, ECC would be a sensible choice IMO.
>
>
> On 8/3/2016 11:00 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>
>> And there are many people on the list here who have vouched for the J1900
>> box mentioned earlier.
>>
>> I am pretty sure we’ve vetted it; I know I have and I am going to start
>> deploying it at customer sites over NetGate hardware.
>>
>>
>> On Aug 3, 2016, at 10:58 AM, Karl Fife  wrote:
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> You can buy the 'blessed' hardware alone (e.g. CentOS) from netgate for
>>> $300 (2-port) and $350 (4-port).   Cheaper than if you buy a preconfigured
>>> pfSense appliance with support.  Seems like REALLY inexpensive insurance to
>>> be using vetted hardware that others are also using.  In general, I
>>> consider cheap networking gear to be a false economy.
>>>
>> ___
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>>
>
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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Karl Fife]

Honestly that j1900 looks like a really great choice.

I think the right questions would be whether you can tolerate the VGA 
console, whether it will cost more in terms of power consumption, 
whether you need the AES-NI instructions.  I was going to mention ECC 
ram, but the netgate box appears to be Non-ECC :-(


Given the role and quantity of RAM, ECC would be a sensible choice IMO.


On 8/3/2016 11:00 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote:

And there are many people on the list here who have vouched for the J1900 box 
mentioned earlier.

I am pretty sure we’ve vetted it; I know I have and I am going to start 
deploying it at customer sites over NetGate hardware.



On Aug 3, 2016, at 10:58 AM, Karl Fife  wrote:

+1

You can buy the 'blessed' hardware alone (e.g. CentOS) from netgate for $300 
(2-port) and $350 (4-port).   Cheaper than if you buy a preconfigured pfSense 
appliance with support.  Seems like REALLY inexpensive insurance to be using 
vetted hardware that others are also using.  In general, I consider cheap 
networking gear to be a false economy.

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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Ryan Coleman]

And there are many people on the list here who have vouched for the J1900 box 
mentioned earlier.

I am pretty sure we’ve vetted it; I know I have and I am going to start 
deploying it at customer sites over NetGate hardware.


> On Aug 3, 2016, at 10:58 AM, Karl Fife  wrote:
> 
> +1
> 
> You can buy the 'blessed' hardware alone (e.g. CentOS) from netgate for $300 
> (2-port) and $350 (4-port).   Cheaper than if you buy a preconfigured pfSense 
> appliance with support.  Seems like REALLY inexpensive insurance to be using 
> vetted hardware that others are also using.  In general, I consider cheap 
> networking gear to be a false economy.

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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Ryan Coleman]

Mine is footprint vs function. For $200 I have a box that takes up less room on 
the wall than the NetGate product and offers more functionality (the J1900 
device mentioned earlier).

The SG-2220 is $100 more than I paid with half the ports.

I’ll pass.

> On Aug 3, 2016, at 10:43 AM, Steve Yates  wrote:
> 
> I'm being serious but what is your rationale for not using 
> pfSense's/NetGate's?
> 
> https://www.pfsense.org/products/ 
> 
> The "cheap" part (< $299)?  We tried a "build our own" approach and it's 
> tough to get a small package.  Any old PC will do just fine if one adds an 
> SSD but as someone pointed out that may use far more power in the long run.
> 
> --
> 
> Steve Yates
> ITS, Inc.

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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Karl Fife]

+1

You can buy the 'blessed' hardware alone (e.g. CentOS) from netgate for 
$300 (2-port) and $350 (4-port).   Cheaper than if you buy a 
preconfigured pfSense appliance with support.  Seems like REALLY 
inexpensive insurance to be using vetted hardware that others are also 
using.  In general, I consider cheap networking gear to be a false economy.



On 8/3/2016 10:43 AM, Steve Yates wrote:

I'm being serious but what is your rationale for not using pfSense's/NetGate's?

https://www.pfsense.org/products/

The "cheap" part (< $299)?  We tried a "build our own" approach and it's tough 
to get a small package.  Any old PC will do just fine if one adds an SSD but as someone pointed out 
that may use far more power in the long run.

--

Steve Yates
ITS, Inc.

-Original Message-
From: List [mailto:list-boun...@lists.pfsense.org] On Behalf Of Eero Volotinen
Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 2:37 AM
To: pfSense Support and Discussion Mailing List 
Subject: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

Any ideas where to find perfect pfsense box for home usage.

Must be cheap and silent? netgate device? shuttle box?

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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Steve Yates]

I'm being serious but what is your rationale for not using pfSense's/NetGate's?

https://www.pfsense.org/products/

The "cheap" part (< $299)?  We tried a "build our own" approach and it's tough 
to get a small package.  Any old PC will do just fine if one adds an SSD but as 
someone pointed out that may use far more power in the long run.

--

Steve Yates
ITS, Inc.

-Original Message-
From: List [mailto:list-boun...@lists.pfsense.org] On Behalf Of Eero Volotinen
Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 2:37 AM
To: pfSense Support and Discussion Mailing List 
Subject: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

Any ideas where to find perfect pfsense box for home usage.

Must be cheap and silent? netgate device? shuttle box?

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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[rainer]

Am 2016-08-03 17:15, schrieb Robert Obrinsky:

I am currently using a refurb HP Elite 8200 SFF that I bought through
Newegg. I removed the video card so I could use the built-in video and
added 2 dual port HP gigabit NICs (Intels in reality) from Amazon. It
came with 4 GB RAM, 500 GB hard drive, and Core I-5 processor at 3.3
GHz. Very quiet. Upgraded the RAM to 8 GB.




How much energy does that thing consume then?

Because it runs all year 24x7, for years sometimes, it can make a huge 
difference buying a smaller and less power-hungry device.


AFAIK, the SG-devices are quite frugal in that respect.
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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Robert Obrinsky]

I am currently using a refurb HP Elite 8200 SFF that I bought through 
Newegg. I removed the video card so I could use the built-in video and 
added 2 dual port HP gigabit NICs (Intels in reality) from Amazon. It 
came with 4 GB RAM, 500 GB hard drive, and Core I-5 processor at 3.3 
GHz. Very quiet. Upgraded the RAM to 8 GB.



Robert Obrinsky President Robert Obrinsky Industries, LLC 1908 SE 45th 
Avenue Portland, OR 97215 Office 503.719.4387 Mobile 503.752.8489 
http://www.roillc.com

On 08/03/2016 12:37 AM, Eero Volotinen wrote:

Any ideas where to find perfect pfsense box for home usage.

Must be cheap and silent? netgate device? shuttle box?

--
Eero
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Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Vick Khera]

My home office is protected by a Netgate APU box (which it seems they
have replaced with some other device at the low end now). It is a
little pricey, but they offer great support and it supports the
project in the best way.

On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:37 AM, Eero Volotinen  wrote:
> Any ideas where to find perfect pfsense box for home usage.
>
> Must be cheap and silent? netgate device? shuttle box?
>
> --
> Eero
> ___
> pfSense mailing list
> https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
> Support the project with Gold! https://pfsense.org/gold
___
pfSense mailing list
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Support the project with Gold! https://pfsense.org/gold

Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[John Martinez]

Third vote. Same box, slightly different config, upgraded drive just in case. 
Love it. 


> On Aug 3, 2016, at 5:38 AM, Ryan Coleman  wrote:
> 
> I second this product. Using it at home. VPN works great to my main servers 
> 100 miles away. Tested local throughput in VPN to about 850Mbps. For USD200 
> it is a great product. I purchased mine through Amazon in April. Only hiccup 
> I had was needing a VGA monitor to configure it. :)
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 3, 2016, at 7:34 AM, Eero Volotinen  wrote:
>> 
>> Does this look good:
>> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/XCY-Mini-PC-J1900-with-4-LAN-port-using-pfsense-as-small-router-firewall-fanless-PC/32694972050.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.7.M55nl4_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201602_5_10057_10056_10055_10049_10059_10058_10017_405_404_10060_10061_10062_412,searchweb201603_2=fffddf79-e2d3-471d-a595-20e06e8226c8
>> 
>> Eero
>> 
>> 2016-08-03 15:03 GMT+03:00 Peder Rovelstad :
>> 
>>> If my old hardware died today, I might get one of these.  Or go virtual.
>>> 
>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856205007
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: List [mailto:list-boun...@lists.pfsense.org] On Behalf Of Eero
>>> Volotinen
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 2:37 AM
>>> To: pfSense Support and Discussion Mailing List 
>>> Subject: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?
>>> 
>>> Any ideas where to find perfect pfsense box for home usage.
>>> 
>>> Must be cheap and silent? netgate device? shuttle box?
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Eero
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> pfSense mailing list
>>> https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
>>> Support the project with Gold! https://pfsense.org/gold
>> ___
>> pfSense mailing list
>> https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
>> Support the project with Gold! https://pfsense.org/gold
> 
> ___
> pfSense mailing list
> https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
> Support the project with Gold! https://pfsense.org/gold
___
pfSense mailing list
https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Support the project with Gold! https://pfsense.org/gold

Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Eero Volotinen]

Does this look good:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/XCY-Mini-PC-J1900-with-4-LAN-port-using-pfsense-as-small-router-firewall-fanless-PC/32694972050.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.7.M55nl4_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201602_5_10057_10056_10055_10049_10059_10058_10017_405_404_10060_10061_10062_412,searchweb201603_2=fffddf79-e2d3-471d-a595-20e06e8226c8

Eero

2016-08-03 15:03 GMT+03:00 Peder Rovelstad :

> If my old hardware died today, I might get one of these.  Or go virtual.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856205007
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: List [mailto:list-boun...@lists.pfsense.org] On Behalf Of Eero
> Volotinen
> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 2:37 AM
> To: pfSense Support and Discussion Mailing List 
> Subject: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?
>
> Any ideas where to find perfect pfsense box for home usage.
>
> Must be cheap and silent? netgate device? shuttle box?
>
> --
> Eero
>
>
> ___
> pfSense mailing list
> https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
> Support the project with Gold! https://pfsense.org/gold
>
___
pfSense mailing list
https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Support the project with Gold! https://pfsense.org/gold

Re: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

[Peder Rovelstad]

If my old hardware died today, I might get one of these.  Or go virtual.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856205007


-Original Message-
From: List [mailto:list-boun...@lists.pfsense.org] On Behalf Of Eero
Volotinen
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 2:37 AM
To: pfSense Support and Discussion Mailing List 
Subject: [pfSense] looking for perfect pfsense box for home?

Any ideas where to find perfect pfsense box for home usage.

Must be cheap and silent? netgate device? shuttle box?

--
Eero


___
pfSense mailing list
https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Support the project with Gold! https://pfsense.org/gold