Re: [WSG] IE7 news
Actually, Microsoft are going to be pushing IE7 as a high priority update through Windows Update. http://news.com.com/Microsoft+tags+IE+7+high+priority+update/2100-7350_3-6098500.html So for many people (at those who have automatic updates turned on), IE 7 will be installed automatically but then of course youve still got the crowd that dont even have SP2 installed, so its a good bet that IE6 will still be a heavily used browser for XP users (not to mention the people still using 2000/ME/98 etc). Also, while I have no evidence to back this up, I sincerely doubt that the XP/Vista products will have any differences that will effect developer/designers sure that may have different security implementations, but from a basic CSS/Javascript point of view, these should be platform independant and simply be a feature of IE7 itself, as with IE6. (now, if IE 6 is different on 2000 than XP, I'll probably end up eating my words :p) Thanks, David. Jason Foss wrote: Yeah... can't really say this is good news. Most people on XP won't upgrade to IE7, so we'll have to test IE7 on XP for a realtively small percentage I expect. That won't be bad if it behaves the same on XP as it does on Vista mind you, but if has differences on Vista as opposed to XP then that will be a bit of a pain. Shall have to wait and see. And yes - there are a gazillion bootleg copies of XP out there - all from the corporate edition that don't require activation. Got my hands on one way back when XP was only a few months old! At least this time legal copies of Vista Beta are readily available for testing, that will probably go a long way towards reducing demand for bootleg versions. On 28/07/06, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/27/06, Paul Novitski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 09:46 AM 7/27/2006, Christian Montoya wrote: Are there any stats on how many users have a bootleg copy of Windows XP? I have a feeling it's a huge number. Maybe I'm being naive, but I thought you can't bootleg XP because each copy of the software gets registered to a single computer. When I moved from desktop to laptop a few years ago, and then six months later moved to another laptop, I actually had to persuade a dubious human being on the phone at Microsoft that I wasn't pirating their operating system. Like all security systems this is no doubt hackable (by spoofing the software id and/or whatever adds up to be the computer id), but I imagine that's too sophisticated a hack for the average computer geek, much less for the average user. I would take your word for it, but I know people who have bootleg copies. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... portfolio.christianmontoya.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG Announce] Ten questions for Steve Faulkner
This is a one-way list for WSG Announcements Steve Faulkner has many years experience as a web developer and accessibility consultant. As well as his ongoing consulting work, he presents runs workshops at conferences, and guest lectures at universities on the practical implementation of web accessibility. He is also leading the development of Web Accessibility testing software in collaboration with organizations and individuals from around the world. Steve talks about accessibility, the Web Accessibility toolbar, the Web Accessibility Tools Consortium, title attributes, AJAX and WCAG2. http://webstandardsgroup.org/features/steve-faulkner.cfm Thanks Russ The announce list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
[WSG Announce] Some links for light reading (28/7/06)
This is a one-way list for WSG Announcements This email covers: - Links for light reading - New books - Events -- LINKS FOR LIGHT READING -- Microsoft to Push IE 7.0 via Automatic Updates http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1994511,00.asp An angry fix http://www.zeldman.com/2006/07/17/an-angry-fix/ Leaving W3C http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-qa-dev/2006Jul/0011 Misplaced Anger: A Rebuttal to Zeldman¹s Criticism of the W3C http://www.webstandards.org/2006/07/26/misplaced-anger-a-rebuttal-to-zeldma ns-criticism-of-the-w3c/ Dvoraked http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2006/07/26/dvoraked/ Dear John (Dvorak) http://www.molly.com/2006/07/27/dear-john-dvorak/ Folksonomies: A User-Driven Approach to Organizing Content http://www.uie.com/events/uiconf/2006/articles/folksonomies/ Advanced box model test http://blog.qooxdoo.org/advanced-box-model-test Veerle Pieters Interview http://www.digital-web.com/articles/veerle_pieters/ An Interview With Molly E. Holzschlag http://www.designdetector.com/link/to/an-interview-with-molly-e-holzschlag/ Interview with Chris Wilson http://css.weblogsinc.com/2006/07/25/interview-with-chris-wilson/ JavaScript event tests part 1: onmouseover http://juicystudio.com/article/screen-reader-onmouseover.php How to Ruin a Web Design - The Design Curve http://www.seomoz.org/blogdetail.php?ID=1230 CRIR: Checkbox Radio Input Replacement http://www.chriserwin.com/scripts/crir/ Clickstream Study Reveals Dynamic Web http://www.websiteoptimization.com/speed/tweak/clickstream/ -- NEW BOOKS -- Web Accessibility: Web Standards and Regulatory Compliance http://www.friendsofed.com/book.html?isbn=1590596382 -- EVENTS -- Pub night (Melbourne) -- http://webstandardsgroup.org/meetings/index.cfm?event_id=69 Sydney Web Standards Group Meeting August -- Date: Thursday August 17 Time: 6.30pm for 7.00pm Cost: $7 Roger Hudson: Exploring tag clouds - and how users interact with them. Donna Maurer: Web 2.0 applications and some of the traps associated with newer forms of interaction. Where: Australian Museum RSVP: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://webstandardsgroup.org/meetings/index.cfm?event_id=63 Brisbane Web Standards Group Meeting August -- Date: Thursday August 31 Time: 6.30pm for 7.00pm Cost: $5 RSVP: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lyn Egas: A blind users experience of the web Michael Rees: The Influence of Ajax on Web 2.0 http://webstandardsgroup.org/meetings/index.cfm?event_id=71 Thanks Russ The announce list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Re: [WSG] IE7 news
Just read that here too: http://mezzoblue.com/archives/2006/07/27/priority/ If the timing is as Dave suggests, that doesn't leave much time to get everything behaving in IE7! Time to start stressing!!! On 28/07/06, David Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, Microsoft are going to be pushing IE7 as a high priority update through Windows Update. http://news.com.com/Microsoft+tags+IE+7+high+priority+update/2100-7350_3-6098500.html So for many people (at those who have automatic updates turned on), IE 7 will be installed automatically but then of course youve still got the crowd that dont even have SP2 installed, so its a good bet that IE6 will still be a heavily used browser for XP users (not to mention the people still using 2000/ME/98 etc). Also, while I have no evidence to back this up, I sincerely doubt that the XP/Vista products will have any differences that will effect developer/designers sure that may have different security implementations, but from a basic CSS/Javascript point of view, these should be platform independant and simply be a feature of IE7 itself, as with IE6. (now, if IE 6 is different on 2000 than XP, I'll probably end up eating my words :p) Thanks, David. Jason Foss wrote: Yeah... can't really say this is good news. Most people on XP won't upgrade to IE7, so we'll have to test IE7 on XP for a realtively small percentage I expect. That won't be bad if it behaves the same on XP as it does on Vista mind you, but if has differences on Vista as opposed to XP then that will be a bit of a pain. Shall have to wait and see. And yes - there are a gazillion bootleg copies of XP out there - all from the corporate edition that don't require activation. Got my hands on one way back when XP was only a few months old! At least this time legal copies of Vista Beta are readily available for testing, that will probably go a long way towards reducing demand for bootleg versions. On 28/07/06, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/27/06, Paul Novitski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 09:46 AM 7/27/2006, Christian Montoya wrote: Are there any stats on how many users have a bootleg copy of Windows XP? I have a feeling it's a huge number. Maybe I'm being naive, but I thought you can't bootleg XP because each copy of the software gets registered to a single computer. When I moved from desktop to laptop a few years ago, and then six months later moved to another laptop, I actually had to persuade a dubious human being on the phone at Microsoft that I wasn't pirating their operating system. Like all security systems this is no doubt hackable (by spoofing the software id and/or whatever adds up to be the computer id), but I imagine that's too sophisticated a hack for the average computer geek, much less for the average user. I would take your word for it, but I know people who have bootleg copies. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... portfolio.christianmontoya.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Jason Foss http://www.almost-anything.com.au http://www.waterfallweb.net Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] North Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE7 news
On 7/27/06 7:42 PM, Jason Foss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most people on XP won't upgrade to IE7, so we'll have to test IE7 on XP for a realtively small percentage I expect. It's being pushed as a High Priority update. You don't think the majority will update because M$ says I should -- Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] w3c inspecting icon factory
On 7/28/06, Tee G. Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.iconfactory.com/news.asp?day=1 Very very interesting! Could be a good education for client on web standards Cheers, tee Maybe it's a quicktime problem, but that crashes FF, IE, and Opera on my Win XP SP2 machine. Too bad really, I wanted to find out what happens after that riveting first day. Maybe adopting a more standard video format (pun intended very intentionally) would help. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... portfolio.christianmontoya.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE7 news
On 7/28/06, Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/27/06 7:42 PM, Jason Foss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most people on XP won't upgrade to IE7, so we'll have to test IE7 on XP for a realtively small percentage I expect. It's being pushed as a High Priority update. You don't think the majority will update because M$ says I should I'm thinking of all the users who insist that they would rather stick with Windows 2000 than upgrade to clunky XP. Don't ask me to explain that one. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... portfolio.christianmontoya.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Suckerfish Dropdown problem - IE
This is an ugly fix, but can lead you toward to solution. Try placing the entire list in one line, removing the whitespace between the list items. At least try this for the first few list items. This is a common problem in IE6 with horizontal list elements. You can fix it by adding display:inline to the li styles. It won't hurt the other browsers, assuming you are floating the top level list items. -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian Fagan Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 10:17 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Suckerfish Dropdown problem - IE Hello all, I'm having trouble with Suckerfish drop-downs on a client's site: I have not uploaded everything yet but you can check out the raw code at: HTML: http://www.fagandesign.com.au/index4.html CSS: http://www.fagandesign.com.au/homepagestyle3.css My problem is not a problem in FF or Netscape (not tested in Opera yet) but it is in IE - funny that. In IE their is still an annoying white space about 5px tall seperating the main menu from the image underneath it - whereas their should be no space between them (and isn't in FF and N). Does anyone know what attribute of the Suckerfish drop-down menu is causing this ugly white space?? And how I can fix it?? Cheers. -- Christian Fagan Fagan Design 0432 220 579 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE7 news
Donna Jones wrote: IE6 - does anyone know if there is one or being worked on? (even though i don't remember his name, i'd look it up) who figured out how to do the stand-alone IEs - that was/is so remarkable! http://browsers.evolt.org/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] IE7 news
But FWIW, users will apparently be giving the ability to go back to IE 6 if they don't want/like IE7. Interesting. Funny. Isn't the whole point of a software upgrade to make it better and more usable than the previous? If Microsoft is worried about users not liking IE7 then they should probably reconsider its launch date - seriously. Just a thought :) Jough ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Suckerfish Dropdown problem - IE
Ted Drake wrote: This is an ugly fix, but can lead you toward to solution. Try placing the entire list in one line, removing the whitespace between the list items. An alternative to all on one line fix is this (view source, check-out how he did his list menus): Ruthsarian Layouts Tank! http://webhost.bridgew.edu/etribou/layouts/Tank!/index.html Hth, gl, Cheers, Micky ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG CMS] CMS Suggestions for Evaluation
We're using an older version of Content Server from Fatwire http://www.fatwire.com/cs/Satellite/CSPage_US.html It's definitely enterprise level. Our version uses JSP tied together with XMl -- it would be worth a look. David McKinnon Martin Heiden wrote: Hi! We are looking for a XML based enterprise CMS written in JAVA. Has anybody an idea, which systems are worth evaluating? * The CMS discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] eCensus Web Site Accessibility
-Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Sent: Saturday, 29 July 2006 11:41 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] eCensus Web Site Accessibility Who is really pushing the case for accessibile website standards in Australia, a few individuals only I believe. Does Vision Australia send out non-compliance notices to companies with bad websites like RNIB do in the UK. Has Vision Australia taken any action under the DDA 1992 like Americans have against Target? I am tired of low standards in the Australian government websites and organisations who do nothing effective to force change. Vision Australia demand nothing from the government and they get nothing in return. They like to work with their clients while creating a false impression internationally that the Australian government is hanging on their every word. The Australian government could not care less what Vision Australia does, yet Vision Australia does nothing but let the status quo continue. I don't see why it should be Vision Australia's job to send out non-compliance notices to companies with bad websites. Of course accessible website would be of interest to Vision Australia, but they are not the one and only organisation with members or clients affected by bad accessibility. You might as well demand the same from Scope, Australian Hearing and the Physical Disability Council of Australia. It should be the government's job to ensure accessibility is being provided as much as can reasonably be expected. I agree that it is a waste of time and money for eCensus to make two forms (one accessible, one inaccessible), but at least they try. It's a start, isn't it? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] w3c inspecting icon factory
On Jul 28, 2006, at 7:43 AM, Patrick Haney wrote: To be honest, I'm not sure why they didn't go with animated GIFs to do this. I'm sure the file size would've been larger, but no plugins are necessary and I've seen plenty of pixel art animations done with GIF. Can animated GIFs achieves this level of animation? QT at least is better than WMP or RM format, and it's more accessible for PC users to download than having Mac user download Window Media Player (which Microsoft no longer support Mac platform) and Real Player. tee ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE7 news
From: Roberto Gorjão [EMAIL PROTECTED] Right now, I work with XP SP2 (home edition, sigh!) and IE6. I have IE3, IE4, IE5 and IE5.5, all as standalone versions. The standalone hack should only be used as a last resort by web designers who cannot afford the luxury of dedicated testing machines or a VPC setup. If one does do the hack they need to make sure to also hack the registry to ensure proper version identification. There have been cases reported of OS corruptions after repeated installs and uninstalls. While a lot of people use the standalone hack, it should be stated that it is a hack and does have potential problems. -- Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE7 news
That's true! Al Sparber wrote: While a lot of people use the standalone hack, it should be stated that it is a hack and does have potential problems. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE7 news
On Jul 28, 2006, at 7:39 PM, Al Sparber wrote: From: Roberto Gorjão [EMAIL PROTECTED] Right now, I work with XP SP2 (home edition, sigh!) and IE6. I have IE3, IE4, IE5 and IE5.5, all as standalone versions. The standalone hack should only be used as a last resort by web designers who cannot afford the luxury of dedicated testing machines or a VPC setup. If one does do the hack they need to make sure to also hack the registry to ensure proper version identification. There have been cases reported of OS corruptions after repeated installs and uninstalls. While a lot of people use the standalone hack, it should be stated that it is a hack and does have potential problems. Al, I installed twice the IE 7 beta 2 3 on my Mactel powerbook, Parallels Workstation XP SP2, for two very specific projects that client wanted IE 7 safe proof, after that I uninstalled. Few weeks ago, someone mentioned a more stable IE 7 standalone, so I installed, but it was full of probem, many functions don't work, the very obvious one was it didn't allow me to run the validation check on contentquality site. My tiger OS recently is having some system errors however I can't even tell if they were caused by IE 7 repeated uninstallation, because the XP is running in the Pareallels software. I only use the XP for browser testing, and when I run the system in Parallels, I don't get any errors. tee ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] eCensus Web Site Accessibility
-Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Sent: Saturday, 29 July 2006 11:41 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] eCensus Web Site Accessibility Who is really pushing the case for accessibile website standards in Australia, a few individuals only I believe. Does Vision Australia send out non-compliance notices to companies with bad websites like RNIB do in the UK. Has Vision Australia taken any action under the DDA 1992 like Americans have against Target? I am tired of low standards in the Australian government websites and organisations who do nothing effective to force change. Vision Australia demand nothing from the government and they get nothing in return. They like to work with their clients while creating a false impression internationally that the Australian government is hanging on their every word. The Australian government could not care less what Vision Australia does, yet Vision Australia does nothing but let the status quo continue. I don't see why it should be Vision Australia's job to send out non-compliance notices to companies with bad websites. Of course accessible website would be of interest to Vision Australia, but they are not the one and only organisation with members or clients affected by bad accessibility. You might as well demand the same from Scope, Australian Hearing and the Physical Disability Council of Australia. It should be the government's job to ensure accessibility is being provided as much as can reasonably be expected. I agree that it is a waste of time and money for eCensus to make two forms (one accessible, one inaccessible), but at least they try. It's a start, isn't it? -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Sent: Saturday, 29 July 2006 1:05 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] eCensus Web Site Accessibility I believe that UK sites are better than Australian sites in part because RNIB are a more proactive organisation, testing sites for standards compliance, awarding See it Right certification and sending notices of non-compliance to companies with inaccessible websites. Low advocacy levels produces low standards compliance. If Vision Australia do not push hard for standards compliance why should AGIMO care what a few individuals like me say? Firstly, I would like to differentiate between standards compliance and accessibility. Standards Compliance does not equal accessibility and accessibility does not equal standards compliance. A website can be not complying with standards and still be accessible by the majority of people. And just because a website complies with standards certainly does not mean it's accessible. The reason I would like to make this difference is because I certainly agree with you that if a government website is obviously inaccessible and it could be expected to be improved, organisations such as Vision Australia and other associations that represent users with disabilities should voice their concerns and attempt to force a change. However, I do not believe that it is the job of any of those organisations to go and test websites for standards compliance and send out notices or award some kind of certificates. They certainly have got better things to do than that. Do you know how many websites they would have to go and test? And what if those websites are standards compliant - does it mean they are therefore accessible or user-friendly for visually disabled users? Not really. I would suggest that it is the role of the individual to find problematic websites and report them. However, the reporting process could go perhaps through the channels of organisations such as Vision Australia or RNIB, as they have got a stronger voice. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
