Re: [WSG] Site check andrewingram.net
Andrew Ingram wrote:
Basically, anything you can think of (especially things that are an easy
fix) would be most welcome.
One thing to add, your navigation has links to the page you are on as
well. (no doubt because you're using the body id, li id tie up to
indicate active page.
My most recent understanding was that it wasn't good practice to do that.
but I don't know how easy it would be to fix in Expression engine.
So my questions for the massed minds are, what are the issues regarding
same page links and what are the best practice solutions?
I normally do something like:
ul id=mainnav
li id=activespanHome/span/li
lia href=people.htmOur People/a/li
lia href=location.htmLocation/a/li
lia href=contact.htmContact Us/a/li
lia href=links.htmLinks/a/li
/ul
where li span{} shares styling with li a{} and li#active a{} is the
active style.
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Conditional Comments Bad? - was: Re: [WSG] CSS calling methods survey
Tony Crockford wrote: Snipped lots of CC's so that really old browsers get unstyled content and any IE hacks are filtered into alternative stylesheets. works for me. and having caught up with my reading, the use of CC's seems to be frowned upon. since I mostly use the CC's for max width and max height, what's the simplest alternative, that would: a) put hacks in separate stylesheets for IE6, IE5 and IE5 on Mac. b) the best _valid_ hack to solve max-width and max-height issues. and why? could I have an import rule within the CSS that would be conditional for the different IE's - do I need to be that specific? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS calling methods survey
Barney Carroll wrote: link? style @import? Which do you use, for what, and why? here's what I do: !-- import complex style sheet hides from older browsers -- style type=text/css media=screen @import /styles/layout.css; /style !-- begin conditional comment for IE only CSS - with IE7 in mind -- !--[if IE] link rel=stylesheet type=text/css ref=/styles/iehacks.css / ![endif]-- !-- begin conditional comment for IE only CSS - with IE7 in mind -- !--[if IE 7] link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=/styles/ie7hacks.css / ![endif]-- !-- begin conditional comment for IE 5 only CSS - with IE7 in mind -- !--[if lte IE 5.5000] link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=/styles/ie5hacks.css / ![endif]-- !-- begin link to design styles for print -- link rel=stylesheet type=text/css media=print ref=/styles/print.css / so that really old browsers get unstyled content and any IE hacks are filtered into alternative stylesheets. works for me. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
Susie Gardner-Brown wrote: I'm mostly wanting to explain/show what can be done using CSS instead of actual images, so their design takes advantage of what CSS has to offer, and doesn't have to use graphic images to create the effect they want to achieve. Dunno if that's any clearer ... grin I know exactly what you mean, but I don't think there's a resource on the net that will help. what you want is PSD's that allow for growth e.g backgrounds that are larger than the space they initially occupy. navigation buttons that allow text to grow so the buttons can expand etc. I think you might get the best benefit from looking at animation tutorials - the old style Disney gel method, where the characters are placed on a background. to me the one thing the GD's don't *get* about CSS is that you don't slice images to fit a grid any more, you arrange images and elements in layers, either side by side or in vertical stacks. I'd try and explain this visually by printing various parts of the design out (switch off layers one by one) and then _show_ the GD's how you build up the page and why they need to think in backgrounds that grow, text that grows and so on. I think once a GD *gets* the layers, they'll find Photoshop very accommodating. but as you say, they hardest part is to get them to think like animators, not grid based print designers. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
Susie Gardner-Brown wrote: Thanks everyone - good discussion, suggestions and links! I found the link I was planning to post with my last email: http://leftjustified.net/site-in-an-hour/ hth ;o) -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Recommendations for x-platform css/xhtml editors?
Nick Roper wrote: Have looked at resources on the WSG site and also punted around on the web and tried Amaya, CSSED etc, but any input from out there would be appreciated. You might take a look at Aptana http://www.aptana.com/ Aptana: The Web IDE it's javascript focussed but does HTML and CSS. I wasn't terribly excited by it - it seemed slow and clunky compared to Topstyle. I'd be interested in any other alternatives too. (of course you could always run Topstyle in a virtual machine!) hth -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Recommendations for x-platform css/xhtml editors?
Nick Roper wrote: Hi Tony, Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I did wonder about running topstyle under crossover/wine on the Linux box. Don't think topstyle does code-collapsing though, which would be particularly handy sometimes in large xhtml docs. Agreed, it's one thing that it doesn't do. It does collapse CSS rules, if you turn it on in the options. I've yet to find a CSS/XHTML editor that has all the frills I want and is also cross OS... PSPad comes close, but I'm still using Topstyle rather than make the switch and it's windows only... I really liked the look of this: http://macrabbit.com/cssedit/ for the Mac, but it's Mac only, and one OSX upgrade away from being able to try it out on my Mac Mini! have you tried SciTE ? http://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html Scintilla and SciTE with a bit of effort you might get it running on all three OS, but I'm not sure it has all the bells and whistles you're after. hoping someone has some better answers. ;o) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Real world font sizing
Just to clear up my confusion. I've been in the habit of setting font-size on body to 100.01% because AIUI it stops IE doing silly small font sizes when you use ems elsewhere and the .01 is for Opera and a weird rounding issue. recently I picked up the habit of setting body to 62.5% from http://www.clagnut.com/blog/348/ which I think is wrong, from what I'm hearing seeing recently... is it okay to set body to 100.01% and then use ems on elements to meet the designers whim? maybe I don't mean *okay* per se,[1] but assuming I have to set a font size to meet a clients brief, which would be the most respectful way? 100.01% on body and elements sized using ems (by trial and error) or some other way? bearing in mind that I'm working remotely from the designer client, who is often designing on a Mac what settings would let me choose font sizes that would look like they match the visual I'm working to, without causing problems for users with different preferences? TIA [1] I assume not setting any size is best, but in the real world my income depends on making web sites match a signed off visual -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Real world font sizing
Felix Miata wrote:
Consider asking the client if he has troubled himself to appropriately
adjust his own browser(s) so that unstyled text is the size he prefers.
Once he understands that this is the right thing to assume everyone has
done, even though some subset of the universe actually goes to that
trouble, . . .
I have many clients and most of them have no idea about resetting the
default size, and as for *their* clients - the web site commissioning
businessman - even fewer understand there's a choice of browsers, let
alone settings you can fiddle with...
I wish there were a way to collect data on how users have set font-size
in their browsers, we'd have some better facts then...
. . . there's no need to set anything other than 100% on body, which
also means no need to set anything at all on body.
unfortunately leaving body font-size unset and setting a sub 1em size on
text, e.g 0.8em will allow IE6 to produce miniscule fonts at view text
smallest so I guess I'll just stick to
body {font-size: 100%}
to prevent IE6 going daft.
That leaves the size of various elements that the design requires be
contextually sized, like captions, footers and headings, to be sized by
any appropriate relative sizing method, % em included.
cool. I've got used to ems, so will persist.
thanks all.
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Re: [WSG] Rotten Standardistas
Christian Montoya wrote: Otherwise I will just have to keep on assuming that these specters don't exist. There are one or two font-size fanatics that will accuse you of not respecting your users if you feel the need to set a font size other than default. does that count? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Flash is more accessible than CSS?
Says the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/6090418.stm BBC NEWS | Programmes | Click | Designing a more accessible web please send comments to: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/6041492.stm#Email BBC NEWS | Programmes | Click | Send us your comments ;o) -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Flash is more accessible than CSS?
Rahul Gonsalves wrote: There is no mention of flash being *more* accessible than websites laid out with style sheets. Do avoid quoting articles out of context. My subject was a question, because I felt that the article made it appear that using CSS was inappropriate and difficult to use for accessibility but Flash held the answers to accessibility issues. Website designer, Leonie Watson says: There's a technology called Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) that allows you to control the way a page is displayed, such as the colour of the text and background. However, that's quite a new technology, it's only been around a couple of years, and a lot of designers are still very wary of using it. They actually hard code the colours into the web page itself, which means that they can't be overridden by your browser, or OS. if you were a web designer and you read the article, would you be more inclined to use Flash or CSS? when I read more about Leonie Watson (head of accessibility at Nomensa) I find that she probably has a vested interest in promoting Flash as an accessibility tool. http://www.nomensa.com/web_design.html Web Design : Nomensa - Humanising Technology It's what they prefer to use to design sites. so the reporter of the article has, in my opinion, presented an unbalanced and one sided view of how to make accessible web sites. ;o) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] I Hate Internet Explorer Pt 2
Tom Livingston wrote: On 9/13/06 2:25 AM, Kepler Gelotte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since IE 6.0 doesn't support min-width, you need to use (a CSS invalid) expression: min-width: 800px; width: width:expression((document.documentElement.offsetWidth 820)? 800px: auto ); Couldn't you just use 'height' ? I thought IE will treat that like min-height... ?? well you could, but setting height isn't going to help with width is it? ;) -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Semantics - (was : class names and IDs (which was p:first-line))
Designer wrote: I agree. The thing is, if top, middle and bottom are OK, surely left and right are too? Where do you draw the line? (my own view is that they probably are OK - like Patrick said, pragmatism is the order of the day here, surely?) I think so... until we get a algorithm built into CSS and Browsers that says place this image in the container so that the text flows around it with the least orphaned words then we're going to have to make choices about should it float left or right and whilst I think left and right are *wrong* as class names I can't think of a way to differentiate classes for image placement that make any long term maintainable sense. the argument for semantic class names can be used to argue for left and right in this case - e.g calling something p.red now means headaches for maintenance in the future when p.red is now green, but creating img.typea and img.typeb is just as much a nightmare if you forget which type floats which way... Pragmatism rules. I want my CSS to be flexible, meaningful and written so I can read it like a story (preferably without a translation guide...) likewise the (x)html should make sense too, so when I look at the code and the CSS in an editor I can picture what it *should* appear like. ;o) -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: Semantics - (was : class names and IDs (which was p:first-line))
Andrew Cunningham wrote: Designer writes: I agree. The thing is, if top, middle and bottom are OK, surely left and right are too? Where do you draw the line? (my own view is that they probably are OK - like Patrick said, pragmatism is the order of the day here, surely?) In my current projects i try to avoid labels such as left' and right and use something more functional. Using an id of #left or #right in a template requiring UI mirroring becomes rather odd with #left displaying on the right o the page and #right displaying on the left of the page ;) Agreed, for general elements, but what about for images within a column of text.. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] web check please??
John 'Max' Maxwell wrote: I next want to look at full disabled access etc - can anyone recommend a solid and well represented, up to date resource for this area of web design?? Please do not say google it - I want advice from people who have used it - there are websites and even published books out there turning out code that simply doesn't work to the degree it should. Hey John! how about signing up with GAWDS? (www.gawds.org) lots of very knowledgeable folk there. an alternative starting point: http://diveintoaccessibility.org/ Dive Into Accessibility and a very useful forum here: http://www.accessifyforum.com/ Accessify Forum: Accessibility Discussion Forums and although I haven't bought it *yet* this book looks very promising: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1590596382/ HTH ;o) -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: class names and IDs (was Re: [WSG] p:first-line)
L-J Lacey wrote: --- Designer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, would you criticise this as 'not best practice'? I think the point is that if you decided to change the left images to the right/top/bottom/etc it would no longer be semantic, and would potentially be confusing for you later on, or anyone else looking at your stylesheet/html. I think this particular instance is a very tricky one. in any document an illustrative inline image needs to be given a position. The choices are left aligned or right aligned (top and bottom doesn't come into it for these sorts of images in my experience) I've struggled with this conundrum on many occasions and as it's a binary decision - is the image inserted to be left or right aligned and it has nothing to do with what the image is and more to do with will it work aesthetically. I've always ended up with img.left or img.right as class names. Now I agree that one might decide to make all the img.lefts float right for some obscure reason, but its much more likely that you'd edit the html to switch one image from right to left. My struggle is that I can't see how you could make a meaningful class name when the sole purpose of the class is to impart direction on the element. can anyone suggest anything meaningful? ;o) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: class names and IDs (was Re: [WSG] p:first-line)
Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: That said, for my clients, using .left, .right, .center will be more intuitive. exactly! ;o) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] PNG support cross browser
I understand the limitations of alpha transparency and 24 bit png, but is it safe to use 8bit png in place of gif files? which browsers won't display an 8bit png (no transparency, just for the smaller file size)? a definitive table would be great... I've searched, but info is either old or confusingly written. TIA -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How do they do this?
Susie Gardner-Brown wrote: Ok – here’s the Eric Meyer link - http://meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/popups/demo2.html I’ve used that for text only, but he has an image that changes. based on that and various other examples I did something similar here: http://www.bclm.co.uk/ ;o) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] font standards today
Felix Miata wrote:
This is not a novel position I take. Our web standards organization
agrees with me. http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/font-size
yes, but even they specify a font-family:
html, body, h2, h3, h4, div, p, ul, li, input {
font-family: Gill Sans, Trebuchet MS, Gill Sans MT, sans-serif;
}
Why is that?
because they didn't like the *look* of the defaults!!!
Commercial web development requires pragmatism not pedantry.
;o)
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Re: [WSG] font standards today
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Or was it because they have seen one of the readability studies on the
web, and decided that Sans-serif was better on-screen than Serif?
in which case
html, body, h2, h3, h4, div, p, ul, li, input {
font-family: sans-serif;
}
would have been adequate.
someone made a design decision about Gill Sans and Trebuchet MS being
better looking than just the users preference of sans-serif font.
;o)
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[WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity
I installed IE7 RC1 this morning and checked out my important sites, where I found a strange problem relating to background images. (http://www.bclm.co.uk/map.htm - map div only goes part way because most content is absolutely positioned) I have since set up a test case for the cause of the problem and would welcome some pointers on what I have found. here's the test page: http://www.boldfishclient.co.uk/test/widthtest.htm Test of widths IE7 in IE7 the first div is only as wide as its content and it seems to be because it's inside an undimensioned floated div... which is the correct behaviour? should an undimensioned div stretch to the full width of its container or only to the width of its content? cheers T -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity
Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: Tony Crockford wrote: should an undimensioned div stretch to the full width of its container or only to the width of its content? Anyway, it's a construction full of conflicts, so I wouldn't leave it to the browsers to sort out what the standards say about it. I'd rather solve the conflicts myself, and declare everything. I normally do - any floated div, normally has a width, but for some reason in this case I'd missed it. what put me off was that IE7 does the exact opposite of all the other browsers! (but what's new!) -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity
Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
Tony Crockford wrote:
http://www.bclm.co.uk/map.htm
Would be nice to know which browsers are rendered this page correctly
at the moment, as IE6, Firefox 1.5.0.6 and Opera 9.01 don't seem to
agree on much.
The addition of this...
#maprolloverlist{width: 767px; /* needed for IE7 it seems */}
...but it is also needed by Opera 9, and this...
#maprolloverlist li a {width: 8px; height: 8px;
overflow: hidden; position: relative;}
...apparently help a bit across browser-land, but it's just a guess and
it isn't complete. So, what is it supposed to look, and behave, like?
looks like I may have broken it...
I'll revisit it and check latest browsers, it was working...
;o)
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Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity
Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: ...apparently help a bit across browser-land, but it's just a guess and it isn't complete. So, what is it supposed to look, and behave, like? Firefox 1.5.0.6 pretty much has it right. (as do other browsers I've quickly checked - I'll set browsercam on it now...) Opera 9 makes big little boxes unless you allow the minimum font-size to be smaller than the default 9px, so that's an issue I need to address. Adding width:767px to the #wrapper div solves the issue for IE7 - wrapper was floated to make it enclose floated elements on other pages. It's been nine months since I wrote the CSS for that site and I'm doing things slightly differently now, maybe I need to refresh the CSS with my current best practices in mind... ;o) -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity
Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: Probably could do with slightly simpler CSS here and there, like less use of the entire ID/class chain to target a type of elements inside a container. Didn't look deep since that's not the real problem this time, but unless that stylesheet is also behind other pages, it seems to be a bit over-specified and complex. I'm interested in the justification behind that? it is driving every page on the site from the one stylesheet and there are a lot of list menus, hence the need to specifically identify them. I thought it was fairly lean code so I'd very much like to have some specifics to understand what you mean. (I'd accept using divs to contain elements rather than id the lists might be an issue, but I find it easier to div up the page anyway... is that what you meant?) the one thing that I think is making a lot of problems is my attempt to use Dan Cederholms bulletproof font sizing technique using keywords... (I've not used it since, made a lot of things harder TBH) your thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated if you have time. thanks ;o) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE7 RC1 oddity
Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
Tony Crockford wrote:
it is driving every page on the site from the one stylesheet and there
are a lot of list menus, hence the need to specifically identify them.
Makes sense, but how many #maprolloverlist are there? I can only find one.
Example:
#maprolloverlist li#rollover1{position: absolute; bottom: 18px; left:
173px;}
.
#maprolloverlist li#rollover115{position: absolute; bottom: 335px;left:
646px;}
...should work and become a bit leaner as:
#maprolloverlist li {position: absolute;}
#maprolloverlist li#rollover1{bottom: 18px;left: 173px;}
.
#maprolloverlist li#rollover115{bottom: 335px;left: 646px;}
agreed, lazy copy and paste on my part...
;o)
And...
/*active squares*/
body#map1 #maprolloverlist li#rollover1 a,
body#map47 #maprolloverlist li#rollover47 a{
color: #000;
background-color: #000;
}
...should work as...
body #maprolloverlist li a{
color: #000;
background-color: #000;
}
...since all #maprolloverlist seem to use exactly the same styling, but
maybe I'm missing something really !important here - wouldn't be the
first time :-)
slightly missing what I was doing...
there are 40plus map pages - each point on the map is a link to a page
which repeats the map and on that page - body#mapx (I've used an ID on
the html body) makes the link for that item change color.
I have since realised I should have removed the link for that page for
better accessibility and then rather than activating a link on the
page, just changing the link to a span or something...
the one thing that I think is making a lot of problems is my attempt
to use Dan Cederholms bulletproof font sizing technique using keywords...
Well, I never use it (and probably never will), and what you have there
is a bit old and outdated. I can't see that as a source for major
problems though.
Anyway, I would use...
body {font-size: 100%;}
...and size down (if seen as necessary) on text-carrying elements
further in. Much more reliable in today's browsers, and prevents
oversized text when subjected to small amounts of 'minimum font-size'
in Firefox and Opera.
yeah, that's what I was using till Dan's book suggested the alternative!
I would also add...
#maprolloverlist li a {width: 8px; height: 8px;}
...(or whatever dimension you like) to overcome the 'minimum font-size'
issue in some browsers. Won't help on IE6' 'ignore font-size' though,
but I think you'll just have to ignore that since there aren't any
/perfectly good/ solutions around.
That is, unless you ignore the number in those links (which I can't read
anyway). Then the previously suggested...
The number was to make the list make sense when CSS was off.
The em sizing was to allow for resizing (and better targeting) of the
little boxes.
#maprolloverlist li a {width: 8px; height: 8px; overflow: hidden;
position: relative;}
...works just fine in IE6 and all other browsers.
If I had the time, then I would also create a pop-up instead of relying
on the browsers own tool-tip. There are a few, working, alternatives
around.
yeah.
having spent way too long for the budget on the map there are a lot of
things that I could have/should have added...
like a separate page with a pure html list of attractions (which I might
do on the next update!)
thanks for the feedback...
;o)
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Re: [WSG] OO stylesheet design?? [was More than one style in one class atribute?]
Ken McCormack wrote:
Now, in a big app might have 250 buttons and icons across all dialogs;
if you don't organise your css classes in this kind of hierarchical
manner, then the alternative looks like this:
a class=savebuttonSave/a
a class=cancelbuttonCancel/a
..
a class=anotherbuttonClick Me/a
Interesting idea, but if I have to use a class on every element, then I
consider that a failure.
I would approach your base style + deviation method by creating an id or
class for the container for the links and specifying what all links
within the container should look like and only using a class on the
links that are different.
so I'd have:
ul#nav li a{
padding: 3px 3px 3px 20px; /* pad left for bg image */
background-color:#cecece;
border:1px solid #404040;
white-space:nowrap;
background-align:left;
font-weight:normal;
font-size:small;
background-image:url(icon.gif); }
and
ul#nav li a.savebutton
{
background-image:url(saveicon.gif);
}
with:
ul id=nav
lia href=#Clickme/a/li
lia href=#Clickme/a/li
lia href=#Clickme/a/li
lia href=#Clickme/a/li
lia href=# class=savebuttonSave/a/li
/ul
but you'd probably do the same? and I'm just picking apart your example
needlessly right?
;o)
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Re: [WSG] Preference or Standard?
David Cameron wrote:
I've a mix of both in my coding, and have decided to with one or the
other, and at least maintain continuity. Which?
using double line breaks to give a visual paragraph would seem to go
against purity and semantics, so I prefer the former, but if you're
using double line breaks to avoid using class on two or more paragraphs
then that's even worse...
avoid using multiple classes for the same element by applying the
styling to a container in which you have the elements,
so do:
div id=content
pExample text 1/p
pExample text 2/p
/div
and have the class=text styles applied thus:
div#content p {the styles you had with p.text}
saves a lot all round...
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Re: [WSG] target=_blank
Rick Faaberg wrote: It's not a question of users' stupidity! It's a matter of if *I* feel that a new window is the best way to present the information! I'm aghast at such an attitude on a web *standards* list. in fact the whole thread contains arguments against using the standards and they all seem to be about personal preference. if you want to create web pages based on personal preference, why are you a member of the web standards group? The Web Standards Group is for web designers developers who are interested in web standards (HTML, XHTML, XML, CSS, XSLT etc.) and best practices (accessible sites using valid and semantically correct code). We aim to: * Provide web developers and designers with a forum to discuss issues and share knowledge (via our discussion list and regular meetings) * Provide web standards information and assistance to developers * Promote web standards within the development community perhaps we should all examine our attitudes? ;o) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] target=_blank
Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote: Sometimes even web standards can be wrong. I do not think this discussion is so much about personal preference as it is about the question whether this particular web standard is correct or not. People who decide on Web Standards can make mistakes. That's why standards change all the time. A few years ago it was standard to have all links to other websites open in new windows. Now it moves against this behaviour. There is room for discussion, don't you think? It's mad, is what it is. target_blank is allowed under transitional standards. if you adopt strict standards then adhere to them. forcing a new window on a mobile phone or the forthcoming UA that integrates with your optic nerve and projects the web on a virtual screen is not sensible. arguing about target_blank has been done, a decision reached and standards set. IIRC the original argument started when someone wanted to force a new window *and* have code valid to xhtml strict standards. I firmly believe that new windows should be the users choice and there are no business cases for new windows that can't be done a different way. I think they *should* be done differently if you want widest use of your business application on the web. However, if you're creating a desktop application for a closed usage on an intranet? well why not have multiple windows spawning? - that's what we expect windowed applications to do, but code to a transitional standard, that allows for it. I'm a pragmatic coder though and if the time and effort or commercial budget are an issue and the client can't be persuaded that new windows are a bad idea then I just change to a less strict standard and code to that. let's not argue for a change to the standards because we don't like them, just choose one that allows the behaviour you want and *understand* and *educate* clients on the why and wherefore... ;o) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] target='anything' : was [target=_blank]
Designer wrote: Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote: Sometimes even web standards can be wrong. I do not think this discussion is so much about personal preference as it is about the question whether this particular web standard is correct or not. People who decide on Web Standards can make mistakes. That's why standards change all the time. A few years ago it was standard to have all links to other websites open in new windows. Now it moves against this behaviour. There is room for discussion, don't you think? I agree entirely. Furthermore, it's not only target=_blank, it's target= anything! You can still produce a valid frameset by using the frameset DTD, but you 'cannot' target any of the frames if you want/need to use strict markup (html or xhtml) without resorting to javascript. Eh? if you use the frameset DTD then target is valid. you can't use frames in a valid way without the frameset DTD, so what are you talking about? time for me to drop out of this thread in sheer frustration. ;o) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] correct markup for frames? : was [target=_blank]
Designer wrote: Tony Crockford wrote: Eh? if you use the frameset DTD then target is valid. you can't use frames in a valid way without the frameset DTD, so what are you talking about? time for me to drop out of this thread in sheer frustration. ;o) Hi Tony, AFAIK, the files that are used to make up the frameset (ie, the ones that appear in the browser) are 'ordinary' files which will not accept the frameset DTD. That is reserved for the frameset definition file, not it's components. It is in the component files that one would use the target attribute, and in these files 'target' is a no-no. Or have I been missing something? This is important to clear up and has nothing to do with the target discussion per se. I have used frames on one of my sites and I want to get this right! okay, colour me confused. AIUI the frameset page has the doctype (using the frameset DTD) and the framed pages have no doctype at all and are included in the frameset by using frame src=leftside.html so why can't you use target_ in the framed pages? http://www.sitepoint.com/print/frames-frame-usage-explained is a good article... -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] correct markup for frames? : was [target=_blank]
Matthew Pennell wrote: The upshot is you can't use Strict when using framesets. well yes, I thought that was obvious? but I'm struggling to understand the problem. the framed pages have *no* doctype - what would make them strict? and why, when they are part of a frameset would you try and validate them against a strict DTD? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] correct markup for frames? : was [target=_blank]
Designer wrote: No matter which way you look at it, it doesn't make sense. what doesn't make sense is why you would use a strict doctype for pages that are included in a frameset? if you have to use a doctype for the framed pages, use a transitional one and all will be valid and good... the whole point of the XHTML strict DTD is: XHTML 1.0 Strict - Use this when you want really clean structural mark-up, free of any markup associated with layout. Use this together with W3C's Cascading Style Sheet language(CSS) to get the font, color, and layout effects you want. http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/ ;o) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] correct markup for frames? : was [target=_blank]
Designer wrote: XHTML 1.0 Strict - Use this when you want really clean structural mark-up, free of any markup associated with layout. Use this together with W3C's Cascading Style Sheet language(CSS) to get the font, color, and layout effects you want. Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. So your point is? but you're not are you? you're using an inaccessible frameset when the same purely visual effect can be done in a more accessible way using CSS. if you want strict and a framed effect do it with CSS instead of frames and then all users can access all your content. instead of asking for target in strict (an inaccessible frameset attribute) and asking us to justify why you can't have it, why don't you justify the use of frames, when all they are is a visual effect that can be achieved with CSS. ;o) -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] target=_blank
Richard Conyard wrote: It is a hack, but at the end of the day clients are clients and most of us aren't in the position to simply refuse to do something because it doesn't sit well with how we'd like to do things. but you can have target_blank without a hack, just not with a strict doctype. The whole point is to use standards in a valid way, not find a sneaky way to get round the validator... ;o) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Link spacing in UL
Jackie wrote: try sticking some line height on the a tag like 140% or something. that might work. except if the link is long and wraps then you get huge spacing between the lines.. e.g this is the link to the rest of the article (which is 200% line height, but you get the idea...) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Link spacing in UL
Paul Bennett wrote: What about using a definition list? Thanks, but A) it's a pig to style (I can't seem to get each di to display as a list item for a start B) it's not really a definition list, semantically is it really a list item? given that you have a full paragraph of text and a link, I'd have thought it was more semantically a definition list (if you have several of these groups) or more likely div p/p a/a div and dl's don't have di's (if that isn't a typo) dl dtThe paragraph/dt dda/a/dd dtThe paragraph/dt dda/a/dd dtThe paragraph/dt dda/a/dd dtThe paragraph/dt dda/a/dd /dl would be much cleaner code. than a ul with list items containing two elements. ;o) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Need help with vertical accordian menu
morten fjellman wrote: Thank you :) That got me started. I do think the main problem I face is how to make the menu expand. I was thinking maybe using display hidden to hide the links when not active. Am I on the right track here, or is JavaScript the only way to make this work? if you want the sub menu to display only in the section it refers to you can do it with display none on them all and display block on the sub menu you you want to see. in action here: http://www.bclm.co.uk/whattosee.htm What to see - Black Country Living Museum and with multiple submenus here: http://www.adroddiad.com/pages/cat1x9.htm Computers (work in progress) hth ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE Hates me and my CSS please help!
Buddy Quaid wrote: Here is the page in question: http://tangerinefiles.com/treatyoak/personal.html for those that are confused, take a look at the page - the on state is the same as the hover states . and the over class is applied by the mouseover event in the javascript to allow IE to use :hover effects on the LI why it doesn't work? no idea, but there are some javascript errors that may be throwing the on-mouseover off track... ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE Hates me and my CSS please help!
Tony Crockford wrote: Buddy Quaid wrote: Here is the page in question: http://tangerinefiles.com/treatyoak/personal.html for those that are confused, take a look at the page - the on state is the same as the hover states . and the over class is applied by the mouseover event in the javascript to allow IE to use :hover effects on the LI why it doesn't work? no idea, but there are some javascript errors that may be throwing the on-mouseover off track... Ah, just thought of a possible problem. the on-mouseover is just adding a class to the list item - that list item already has a background image and IIRC IE won't just replace background images. try adding a border or a color to the list item and change that in your over class as well as the Bg image - that way IE sees something it has to re-render for. (but fix up the javascript errors too) One useful tip is to isolate the elements you're struggling with to the smallest amount of code that will actually let them work, that way you can see if its the code you're using or the page they are in that's causing the problem. I suspect in this instance there's not enough CSS to get IE to swap background images when it goes from: li id=mortgage class=on to li id=mortgage class=on over and back again. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE Hates me and my CSS please help!
Daniel Champion wrote: I've no idea either, but moving the rule: #mortgage.on above the rule: #mortgage makes it work in IE for me. It shouldn't make any difference (should it?), but it's IE. I think it's the fact that all that changes is a background image... I wish i could find the link, I'm sure IE won't just do background image swaps unless something else changes too... /me goes off to google for the page that explains it... ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE Hates me and my CSS please help!
Tony Crockford wrote:
I wish i could find the link, I'm sure IE won't just do background image
swaps unless something else changes too...
/me goes off to google for the page that explains it...
a mention of it here (referring to a different technique):
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/scalable.asp
TJKTabs Menu | CSS sclalable Tabs
There is another IE issue, and this time it concerns IE6 too:
- If there is no rule declared for li a:hover, IE will swap background
images only once, then the image sticks. If you're browsing these
examples with IE5/Win and didn't notice such behavior, it is only
because the IE Conditional Comment in the pages already includes a
declaration for the li a:hover rule. To take care of IE6, we need to
swap color or background-color, i,e.:
li a:hover {color:yellow} /* MSIE fix */
QED...
;o)
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Re: [WSG] WCAG 1.0 AAA Rating
Felix Miata wrote: http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/bigdefaults.html can you explain the logic of separating this content into two columns that are not continuous down the page, but short sections across the page. I was reading down the left hand column and wondering why it kept jumping... ;o) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Old School Custom Font Face
Felix Miata wrote: All you're really doing is trying to guarantee your visitor doesn't get to see his preferred font-family. If a user cares that much about what font he sees, won't he have over-ridden author stylesheet selections in his browser? isn't CSS about *suggesting* a layout and a suitable font to the UA? or have I missed something? -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] selling web standards
Jan Brasna wrote: Outstanding site! That's going to be very helpful to me. MACCAWS is actually not maintained any longer, lack of time I'd say, but I hope we'll continue with the spreading of this message worldwide in WaSP ILG as we have Stef Troeth (of the MACCAWS team) on board. I think those of us that saw the need for MACCAWS found ourselves with plenty of work... I'd still like to do a MACCAWS for Accessibility, but it needs a host of willing volunteers... ;) -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Font property
Bojana Lalic wrote: Is this valid css and if not what’s wrong with it: font: 2.2em/1.5; the 2.2em/1.5 bit is okay and says font-sze 2.2em line height 1.5 times that... (see: http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2006/02/08/unitless-line-heights/ Eric's Archived Thoughts: Unitless line-heights) IIRC you need at least a font-family with your shorthand font declaration for it to be valid. http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/fonts.html#font-shorthand so font: 2.2em/1.5; isn't valid, but font: 2.2em/1.5 Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; is. hth -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] How to detect bottom of a page?
Bojana Lalic wrote: However, I've got a slight problem now. When printing out the article that is three pages long (when printed out) the url appears on the first page. How do I force it to display only on the last page? Why not put the url for the article at the end of the source code and set it to display: none, then in a print stylesheet, override that so it gets printed? That's the only way I can think of to have it appear last. hth ;o) -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Horizontal List Issue
Jonathan Carter wrote: That would be the my desired way of doing it, but like I said, the list is generated dynamically, it's not static HTML. There could be any number of list items that are displaying any image that is uploaded by the user, so I wouldn't know what image to make as the background for each item. isn't that going to be a bit messy as a horizontal list? an unknown width caused by unknown number of items isn't the best plan for horizontal. and if you can insert the img element dynamically then you can insert li style=background : #fff url(../directory/image.jpg) no-repeat 50% 0;The text goes here with adequate top padding for the image to be seen/li can't you? or is what you're trying to do better suited to a table? and is this really a navigation list? or a series of images uploaded (an image gallery) and therefore more suited to floated divs? which will wrap onto two rows if there are more than the width available ;o) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Accessibility standards - for commercial consumption
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: As helpful as translations/revisions here may be, they should be fed back to the W3C directly. But aren't they stuck with the problem of writing for device and technology independence? My suggestion and hope, was that this community could create a document(s) that advised the web design community at large in a pragmatic and specific way how to *implement* the guidelines. For some web designers/developers it's hard enough persuading the client/boss that web standards are important. To add the time to create accessible documents/sites when the guidelines are written generically and confusingly is beyond the scope of many projects. If we wish for the majority of web sites to be crafted with accessibility in mind, then I feel that some practical support *by* the community is needed. The WAI seem to speaking to those that know, I'm suggesting that those that know, speak to those that don't with persuasive and understandable prose in order to widen the implementation of Accessible Standards. Of course the Academic approach dictates one generic document that covers all technologies - easier to maintain and future-proof, and that's the answer I suspect the WAI will give when asked to extend WCAG2 to include real-life specific and pragmatic examples. (of course I could be wrong...) -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Accessibility standards - for commercial consumption
A while back I was part of the MACCAWS team (http://www.maccaws.org) which did a pretty good job (IMHO) of creating a document that could be used to make a commercial case for adoption of web standards. The advent of WCAG 2 and it's apparently almost impossible to understand language makes me wonder if there's any mileage in writing something similar to the MACCAWS Kit but with meeting Accessibility Standards in mind. what do we think, any takers? ;o) -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Accessibility standards - for commercial consumption
Lachlan Hunt wrote: Tony Crockford wrote: A while back I was part of the MACCAWS team (http://www.maccaws.org) which did a pretty good job (IMHO) of creating a document that could be used to make a commercial case for adoption of web standards. The advent of WCAG 2 and it's apparently almost impossible to understand language makes me wonder if there's any mileage in writing something similar to the MACCAWS Kit but with meeting Accessibility Standards in mind. what do we think, any takers? I was thinking pretty much along the same lines when I wrote my last post and suggested setting up a wiki. Although the idea seems similar to the intention of the WCAG Samurai, but I would much rather prefer an open process that anyone can get involved with. I think the wiki is a good idea, although experience with MACCAWS showed that a lot of people found wiki navigation difficult to comprehend. How about a wiki that requotes each guideline on a wiki page of its own and allows multiple authors to rephrase it in the context of pragmatic web design. It could be edited until a consensus was reached and then the page locked. would that fall foul of copyright on the original standard? or would it come under fair use? to make it useful it would have to be summarising the guidelines as applying to a specific scenario - would that dilute the effect of the guidelines or make them easier to adopt in principle. My concern about WCAG 2 is that if it's not easy to understand and simple to implement fewer people will bother to attempt it in the first place. I'd be up for helping out with a wiki based contextual summarisation - My first glance at the guidelines and Joe Clark's interpretation had me very confused and more than a little concerned about client reaction. -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Accessibility standards - for commercial consumption
Lachlan Hunt wrote: However, I'm not saying a wiki would be completely useless. One could be used for people to document specific techniques and ideas, but use a mailing list to discuss and develop the actual spec translation. would this be a good use of http://www.writeboard.com/ ? like a wiki but not, in that it's an editable document with revision tracking and has easy commenting in addition, so that those not comfortable editing the text itself can comment on it. Another thing that would be very useful to do is to create a common set of baselines aimed at different types of sites and use cases. Since the WCAG WG is expecting baselines to be created by governments, organisations or individuals, it would be useful to do so and have a common set that can be used by anyone. This would also help address the concerns that many seem to have about authors setting baselines too high. (e.g. Listing JavaScript as a requirement, failing to provide a fallback and still claiming conformance). This sounds great, although there don't seem to be many takers so far. I do feel there's a need for a more practical approach to meeting the guidelines for the benefit of those that want to make their work more accessible but aren't sure where to start or don't have the time to wade through the technical. A series of simple drill down check-lists and real world examples would be a great start, but I'm reluctant to go solo - getting several viewpoints and a consensus agreement would make the whole exercise more valid. where to start is the question... ;o) -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
