RE: [OzSilverlight] Test 2

[Scott Barnes]

Go Readify, it's your birthday, Go Readify :)

Nice work gents!...



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mitch Denny [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 1 December 2008 8:11 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Test 2

Yep. Was a bit tricky to find the problem. The setting that stops random people 
spamming the list was set correctly. But for some reason it was blocking all 
e-mails. So I set it to allow everyone. Then straight back to allow only 
subscribers and it seemed to fix it. I wonder if it was corruption left over 
from the previous outage.

*sigh*

Mitch Denny | Principal Consultant | Readify Pty Ltd | M: +61 (0)414 610 141

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philip Beadle
Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2008 3:02 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Test 2

Seems to be working again.

Regards,
Philip Beadle
Readify | Principal Consultant
Microsoft MVP - ASP/ASP.NET, MCAD, MCT
Suite 408 LifeLabs Building | 198 Harbour Esplanade | Docklands | VIC 3008 | 
Australia
M: +61 417 301 024 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | C: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] | W: www.readify.net
[cid:image001.jpg@01C95490.498ED110]

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mitch Denny
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:54 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Test 2




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<>

RE: [OT][RE: [OzSilverlight] Can you all do me a massive favour? :)

[Scott Barnes]

Bingo :)

Hey, I can write quite fluently in JSP (My background 2 years ago was 
CF/JSP/JAVA) so I'm at heart indifferent because I love both sides of the isle 
on this one :) (.NET vs Java = both). I'm a good corporate citizen of Micrsoft 
so I'll always advocate that .NET is a better fit given the ethos we have. In 
this instance, I really didn't pay attention to the server that was housing the 
survey, I was more focused on the survey questions and ensuring i'm asking the 
right questions that will yield the best amount of data without causing you all 
to answer 101 random ass questions that doesn't appear to go anywhere? :)

If anyone has a ASP.NET vendor that does this, please let me know as if people 
are offended that we're using JSP instead of ASP.NET for surveys, I'm more than 
happy to recalibrate our approach, provided you agree to take part in the 
survey - fair's fair and all :)

Scott


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Beattie
Sent: Monday, 3 November 2008 2:47 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OT][RE: [OzSilverlight] Can you all do me a massive favour? :)

> I find it somewhat amusing that the questionnaire is written in jsp

c'mon cut Scott some slack... **

he's probably wanting to get the questionnaire happening in the
shortest amount of time / grab whatever is on hand, do the job and
move on.

over in the Adobe space, everytime they roll out something similar
written in PHP you should hear the howls of derision from the
ColdFusion camp. The knives get drawn every time. Meh, I'm over it -
whatever does the work.

in fact it still surprises me that PHP wins hands down for pulling
something off the shelf to tart up and push out: Joomla, SugarCRM,
Wordpress and Drupal, MediaWiki, phpBB even the ancient PHP-Nuke. Sure
there's alternatives for other platforms but they're just not as well
progressed... (I'm still trying to find a good full featured ASP.NET
wiki and CMS...)

there's a lesson to be learnt there somewhere...



** (yeah, I know you're only having a friendly dig. if he didn't give
you the ammo...)


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RE: [OzSilverlight] Can you all do me a massive favour? :)

[Scott Barnes]

That would be great :)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David L. Campbell
Sent: Monday, 3 November 2008 1:21 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Can you all do me a massive favour? :)

Hey Scott...

I'll blog that if you want, let me know...


-Dave


[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Scott Barnes
Sent: Mon 11/3/2008 1:17 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Can you all do me a massive favour? :)




Hi All,



I'm putting together a proposal here internally to make some radical changes to 
the Silverlight/WPF ecosystem. Part of this requires your input and help, in 
that if you could all take 5-10mins out of your day to quickly answer 11 
(short) questions that would be extremely helpful to the cause.



http://deploy.ztelligence.com/start/index.jsp?PIN=13APU9WJMSVWA



Please also pass it along to anyone else you know whom is developing/designing 
with Silverlight. These answers have been chosen carefully to weigh basically 
how we are doing in helping you folks not only onramp, but also about how 
overall you are finding our approach to date.



REALLY appreciate your help on this one!





--

Scott Barnes
(Rich Platform Product Manager)

Microsoft Corp. <http://www.microsoft.com/>  | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog <http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog>  | 
Mobile: 425-802-9503 (New!)

Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog <http://twitter.com/mossyblog>  | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail





;4(?ry?Xuy??ryn7
y?zv?fj
o,*v'



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[OzSilverlight] Can you all do me a massive favour? :)

[Scott Barnes]

Hi All,

I’m putting together a proposal here internally to make some radical changes to 
the Silverlight/WPF ecosystem. Part of this requires your input and help, in 
that if you could all take 5-10mins out of your day to quickly answer 11 
(short) questions that would be extremely helpful to the cause.

http://deploy.ztelligence.com/start/index.jsp?PIN=13APU9WJMSVWA

Please also pass it along to anyone else you know whom is developing/designing 
with Silverlight. These answers have been chosen carefully to weigh basically 
how we are doing in helping you folks not only onramp, but also about how 
overall you are finding our approach to date.

REALLY appreciate your help on this one!


--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Platform Product Manager)
Microsoft Corp.<http://www.microsoft.com/> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Mobile: 425-802-9503 (New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail

RE: [OzSilverlight] RE: Hardware accelerated video?

[Scott Barnes]

David,

I've been using Flash since its birth, I rarely rush anything to do with Adobe 
:)

As for hardware support, you've not yet outlined why you need it? I can see 
1000 ways as to why hardware acceleration is ideal, but that's me - you 
however, seem to be looking at the window dressing and going "oooh I want 
that.." and haven't stopped to look at the entire bigger picture around it 
firstly and secondly why you need it?

I'm not inclined to give credit to Adobe on this one just yet, I've seen their 
promises on brochure and the real deal is entirely something different. Like I 
said, jury is still out on whether this is actually a good thing overall.

exhibit A: 
http://www.kaourantin.net/2008/05/adobe-pixel-bender-in-flash-player-10.html
exhibit B: 
http://www.kaourantin.net/2008/05/what-does-gpu-acceleration-mean.html

I think you should take some time to read more up on the actual GPU 
capabilities in Flash 10?

Scott.









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Connors [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, 2 November 2008 11:16 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] RE: Hardware accelerated video?

Scott Barnes wrote:
Few points:

• Let’s agree to disagree, as clearly we’re at opposite ends on this 
one ☺

• It looks pretty good? Any indication as to what you’re about to do 
with it

Do with it? Nothing. We're largely a Microsoft development shop. What I have 
been saying is that you shouldn't be so quick to write it off a new feature 
like hardware acceleration as one of "Flash 10s new toys". I dare say if you 
conducted a straw poll amongst developers and asked them if they thought it 
would be a good thing to enable that across the platform (and cross platform) 
then I can't imagine any would say no.

As a thought experiment, go and spend 20 minutes at 
www.kongregate.com<http://www.kongregate.com> and then ask yourself where it 
might be in 12-24 months if developers start making extensive use of the 
DirectX/OpenGL retargetting built into the runtime.

or is this just what you’ve read from first impressions off their initial press 
releases? (curious to see how well you’ve digested the entire story around 
this).

Yep. I do all my research with press releases. o  O

[... Lots of stuff about CDNs and other stuff with nothing to do with hardware 
acceleration on the client deleted ...]

• If flash is your cup of tea, that’s perfectly fine.

It isn't particularly.

I’m not going to  think ill of folks adopting Flash, as it’s really comes down 
to what problems you’re trying to solve, how much investment your about to 
unload and where you think it will take you down the road. If Flash offers an 
edge over Silverlight, then my only query is – “tell me what we missed, so I 
can ensure the next releases cover it..”

How about full cross platform hardware acceleration across the entire runtime?

David



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:44 AM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com>
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] RE: Hardware accelerated video?

Scott,

You probably think I'm yanking your chain and I know this is an SL list but 
seriously "I wouldn't be discouraged by Flash 10's new toys as in the 
end..Flash is still Flash :D" isn't really a good way to advocate a platform.  
Props where props are due - Flash 10 does look pretty good.

Other replies inline...

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Never stated hardware acceleration was a bad thing? You asked or assumed I 
implied that but I thought I rejected that and answered your question that it 
has to do with implementation.
So to clarify what are the parts of the Adobe implementation that are bad that 
make you think the jury is out?

As for hardware acceleration in the runtime, in what way is that going to be 
beneficial overall (i.e. what are you expecting to see or view in this case?).
I dunno - I'd be expecting to see all of the normal sorts of eye candy enabled 
by using dedicated hardware:
1. High quality filtering and resampling  - not computationally feasible in 
software
2. Alpha transparency of video   - not computationally feasible in software
3. Transformation of video while playing   - not computationally feasible in 
software
4. 3D with trilinear filtering so you can read text that has come out of the 
other end of the rendering pipeline. NFI if Flash 10 does that (probably not) 
but either way you're never going to do it in software.

etc

Cost has to do with Streaming not so much the client viewing, all those bytes 
add up and someone has to pay the bill, especially with CDN folks ☺
What b

RE: [OzSilverlight] Announcing Silverlight 'Artists in Residence' - Melbourne 1-5 December

[Scott Barnes]

FYI:

Shane & Kordsey did an Artists In Residence here at Redmond. 
http://delicategeniusblog.com/?p=653


I've done one as well, and they are really helpful and I'd definitely encourage 
all to make the effort to take some time to do one.

I'd love to also see what folks are working on inside the OzSilverlight, as 
we're always looking for showcase examples to show the teams here on how folks 
are using Silverlight in the wild. These showcases not only promote your 
company's efforts, but they are extremely helpful in determining product 
planning and where to make our feature bets going forward. As we're always 
looking at ways to improve.

I know the Artist In Residence programs have contributed to product planning 
already, as they are also a positive way for you to give Microsoft raw feedback 
on what trips the developer/designer workflow/creation stages.




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shane Morris
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 11:32 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Announcing Silverlight 'Artists in Residence' - 
Melbourne 1-5 December

Good question John.

We would love to be able to use people's projects to

-  Demonstrate

-  Maybe even blog/vodcast

But if that's not feasible, then as long as teams can show their work to the 
rest of the group at the end of the week, that'd be cool.

Spots are very limited, and we have two pairs signed up already! Woohoo!

Shane

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John OBrien
Sent: Friday, 31 October 2008 5:12 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Announcing Silverlight 'Artists in Residence' - 
Melbourne 1-5 December

Shane, "small project of their choosing", would a small commercial project be 
suitable or would all the work created belong to MSFT / become public domain?
How many spots do you have?
John.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shane Morris
Sent: Friday, 31 October 2008 2:39 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Announcing Silverlight 'Artists in Residence' - 
Melbourne 1-5 December

Hi all, we are running a free Silverlight "Artists in Residence" program for 
developer/designer pairs in Melbourne from 1-5 of December. The idea is to get 
developers and designers quickly up to speed with Silverlight, Expression and 
Visual Studio, and give them a chance to work on a small project of their 
choosing, with help from mentors. Beats conventional classroom training if you 
ask me.

More on the blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/shanemo/archive/2008/10/31/announcing-silverlight-artists-in-residence-melbourne-1-5-december.aspx

Spots are limited. First-in, first-served.

Shane

Shane Morris  |  User Experience Evangelist  |  Microsoft Australia  |  +61 438 
818 888  |  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  
blogs.msdn.com/shanemo

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RE: [OzSilverlight] RE: Hardware accelerated video?

[Scott Barnes]

Few points:

· Let’s agree to disagree, as clearly we’re at opposite ends on this 
one ☺


· It looks pretty good? Any indication as to what you’re about to do 
with it or is this just what you’ve read from first impressions off their 
initial press releases? (curious to see how well you’ve digested the entire 
story around this).


· There’s a lot more to just playing video, folks tend to want to add 
other elements and factors to the video story online, given advertising + video 
seems to be a hot topic online at the moment. Flash whilst having a fairly 
ubiquitous story online, still has had troubles with low quality video mixed 
with reduced ‘stickiness’ online. During the Olympics, when the world was 
craving for online video, the best day Flash had was 3mins+ per session on 
average. We had 26mins+ on average 
(http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/2008/10/30/the-olympic-numbers-are-in.aspx).
 Given they are reacting to Microsoft Silverlight (by their own admission) and 
going by their history in this space whilst adding the TCO etc, like I said, 
the Jury is still out on what exactly this really means and how well Flash 10 
is likely to perform overall.


· Partnerships with both CDN’s and the “Cloud” are something that is 
likely to be the next wave of influence around online video, not to mention the 
strong trends towards Advertising and TV networks looking to secure their 
assets online to prevent piracy – DRM (hate it or love it). There is more to 
this story than just having a bit more performance. How do you send video to 
the new feature, how does one keep track of the bandwidth etc.. How does it 
play well with other features within the runtime, how easily are things 
configured to ensure it plays well (eg seen the Amazon + Flash Media server 
debacle?)


· Silverlight offers both VC-1 today, and we’ve announced we’re going 
to support H.264 going forward, this will put the runtime in a favorable 
position to allow companies both options. Furthermore, Windows Media Server 
2008 and Smooth Streaming are on the horizons as well are offered at a 
significantly lower price. Expression Media Encoder also provides hardware 
encoding as well. Point is, we’re making strong bets in both the server, client 
and cloud to ensure video kick starts to the next wave. We’re not playing the 
reactive game, it’s proactive and furthermore offering free HD hosting via 
silverlight.live.com is also part of our approach – so yeah, I think 
Silverlight is not only the real deal but the cheapest but without a reduction 
in quality.



· If flash is your cup of tea, that’s perfectly fine. I’m not going to  
think ill of folks adopting Flash, as it’s really comes down to what problems 
you’re trying to solve, how much investment your about to unload and where you 
think it will take you down the road. If Flash offers an edge over Silverlight, 
then my only query is – “tell me what we missed, so I can ensure the next 
releases cover it..”


HTH.
Scott.
P.S
If you prefer to debate offline happy to do so, just conscious of peoples inbox 
and I don’t see this going anywhere productive is all?






From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:44 AM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] RE: Hardware accelerated video?

Scott,

You probably think I'm yanking your chain and I know this is an SL list but 
seriously "I wouldn't be discouraged by Flash 10's new toys as in the 
end..Flash is still Flash :D" isn't really a good way to advocate a platform.  
Props where props are due - Flash 10 does look pretty good.

Other replies inline...

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Never stated hardware acceleration was a bad thing? You asked or assumed I 
implied that but I thought I rejected that and answered your question that it 
has to do with implementation.
So to clarify what are the parts of the Adobe implementation that are bad that 
make you think the jury is out?

As for hardware acceleration in the runtime, in what way is that going to be 
beneficial overall (i.e. what are you expecting to see or view in this case?).
I dunno - I'd be expecting to see all of the normal sorts of eye candy enabled 
by using dedicated hardware:
1. High quality filtering and resampling  - not computationally feasible in 
software
2. Alpha transparency of video   - not computationally feasible in software
3. Transformation of video while playing   - not computationally feasible in 
software
4. 3D with trilinear filtering so you can read text that has come out of the 
other end of the rendering pipeline. NFI if Flash 10 does that (probably not) 
but either way you're never going to do it in software.

etc

Cost has to do with Streaming not so much the client viewing, all those bytes 
add

[OzSilverlight] RE: Hardware accelerated video?

[Scott Barnes]

Magic of software my friend.. Magic..of..software :)

I'm poking our video experts for  breakdown of the how now as I'm sure it's got 
a nice story to be told... PDC is obviously yielding a lot of "OOF auto 
responses though" so patience :)


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philip Beadle
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:09 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] RE: Hardware accelerated video?

Wow that smooth HD is really smooth.  How was that done?

Regards,
Philip Beadle
Readify | Principal Consultant
Microsoft MVP - ASP/ASP.NET, MCAD, MCT
Suite 206 Nolan Tower | 29 Rakaia Way | Docklands | VIC 3008 | Australia
M: +61 417 301 024 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | C: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] | W: www.readify.net<http://www.readify.net/>

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 3:14 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] RE: Hardware accelerated video?

Nope :)

In terms of what Flash has, they 10 added hardware bitmap compositing. Verdict 
is still out on how good it is in reality. Given our latest success with Smooth 
Streaming in IIS7, I wouldn't be discouraged by Flash 10's new toys as in the 
end..Flash is still Flash :D

http://www.smoothHD.com to underpin this story further :D hehe.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Damian Edwards
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:33 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Hardware accelerated video?

Anybody know if Silverlight 2 supports hardware accelerated video at all? I saw 
mention of this as a new Flash feature and was curious as to the story with 
Silverlight.

Regards,
Damian Edwards
Microsoft MVP<https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Damian.Edwards> | 
ASP/ASP.NET
Readify | Senior Consultant
Suite 206 Nolan Tower | 29 Rakaia Way | Docklands | VIC 3008 | Australia
M: 0448 545 868 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | C: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] | W: www.readify.net<http://www.readify.net/>

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RE: [OzSilverlight] RE: Hardware accelerated video?

[Scott Barnes]

Never stated hardware acceleration was a bad thing? You asked or assumed I 
implied that but I thought I rejected that and answered your question that it 
has to do with implementation.

As for hardware acceleration in the runtime, in what way is that going to be 
beneficial overall (i.e. what are you expecting to see or view in this case?).  
Cost has to do with Streaming not so much the client viewing, all those bytes 
add up and someone has to pay the bill, especially with CDN folks ☺

Pre-computation? Could you elaborate on what you mean there?

I won’t enter the debate around Sony vs. Samsung, it’s more towards the analogy 
than the depth of which two brands approach consumers in which ways. The fact 
here in the US, is that you walk into any best buy store, look at the TV’s on 
full view and the decision comparisons around which to buy typically live in 
and around price, chrome presentation and warranties. It’s extremely hard to 
spot the difference between each HD TV on display, there are certain tricks 
applied – like playing Finding Nemo with various tweeks to color profiles to 
give a “brighter vs. darker” visual queue that somehow one trumps the other.

So meh :0




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:13 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] RE: Hardware accelerated video?

Scott Barnes wrote:
The implementation more so. It’s also not just about the runtime, at the end of 
the day TCO is quite  strong driving factor in this ethos, so having the 
technical prowess is one thing, holding it hostage to price..now that’s where 
technology decisions make or break.
So the jury is, in fact, not out then. :) I get the feeling you're ragging the 
feature just because SL does not have it.

I'd actually say congratulations to Adobe for putting hardware acceleration 
into the runtime and we, the end users will be the beneficiaries of it. I wish 
more vendors would use all the hardware in it rather than going backwards (i.e. 
rendering primitives in software in Vista). I have no idea what you're talking 
about with being held hostage to a price as the Flash runtime is free (and you 
could use FlashDevelop + FlexSDK if you so choose).

Vaguely related to this, my copy of Photoshop CS4 arrived Tuesday .. it has 
openGL hardware acceleration so image manipulation tasks are all heavily 
accelerated. Zooming through large images behaves as DeepZoom except in 
real-time with no pre-computation or pre-rendering, and you can rotate 10 
megapixel images in realtime.

Hardware acceleration is a GOOD THING - bring more of it on I say!


As at the end of the day, end consumer really doesn’t care – i.e. “Which is 
better HD TV maker Samsung or Sony? “ – answer “whichever’s the cheapest, has 
the best warranty” as once you get to the HD levels, 1 in 5 house wives can’t 
spot the difference.. :D
If that were true then Sony would not have sold a single Bravia. A 
not-insignificant number of consumers do prioritise and appreciate quality.

It would be better if the  NVS160m chipset in my notebook was employed more 
gainfully than drawing transparent edges around windows.

--
David Connors | Software Engineer | www.codify.com<http://www.codify.com/>
[cid:image001.gif@01C93A14.A936FD40]<http://www.codify.com/>
Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417 189 
363
Contact info: https://www.codify.com/contact
<>

RE: [OzSilverlight] RE: Hardware accelerated video?

[Scott Barnes]

The implementation more so. It’s also not just about the runtime, at the end of 
the day TCO is quite  strong driving factor in this ethos, so having the 
technical prowess is one thing, holding it hostage to price..now that’s where 
technology decisions make or break.

As at the end of the day, end consumer really doesn’t care – i.e. “Which is 
better HD TV maker Samsung or Sony? “ – answer “whichever’s the cheapest, has 
the best warranty” as once you get to the HD levels, 1 in 5 house wives can’t 
spot the difference.. :D


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:33 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] RE: Hardware accelerated video?

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>> wrote:

In terms of what Flash has, they 10 added hardware bitmap compositing. Verdict 
is still out on how good it is in reality.
Do you mean the verdict is still out on how good their implementation is or 
whether or not it is a good idea fullstop?

--
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Software Engineer
Codify Pty Ltd - www.codify.com<http://www.codify.com>
Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417 189 
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[OzSilverlight] RE: Hardware accelerated video?

[Scott Barnes]

Nope :)

In terms of what Flash has, they 10 added hardware bitmap compositing. Verdict 
is still out on how good it is in reality. Given our latest success with Smooth 
Streaming in IIS7, I wouldn't be discouraged by Flash 10's new toys as in the 
end..Flash is still Flash :D

http://www.smoothHD.com to underpin this story further :D hehe.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Damian Edwards
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:33 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Hardware accelerated video?

Anybody know if Silverlight 2 supports hardware accelerated video at all? I saw 
mention of this as a new Flash feature and was curious as to the story with 
Silverlight.

Regards,
Damian Edwards
Microsoft MVP | 
ASP/ASP.NET
Readify | Senior Consultant
Suite 206 Nolan Tower | 29 Rakaia Way | Docklands | VIC 3008 | Australia
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[OzSilverlight] New Silverlight Toolkit Released.

[Scott Barnes]

Good news folks,

We've just released some new toys for you to all tinker with. I'm giving a free 
copy of Visual Studio 2008 + Zune4 to the first kickass theme I see. No 
terms/conditions etc, you just have to make me go "wow that's nice looking 
theme" and you get it.

More Info:
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/2008/10/30/silverlight-toolkit-released.aspx


--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Platforms Product Manager)
Microsoft Corp.<http://www.microsoft.com/> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Mobile: + 1 (425) 802-9503 (New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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RE: [OzSilverlight] Success or Failure of SL.?

[Scott Barnes]

Actually not everyone Bazza, just you :) We can debate who's the used car 
salesman here vs. whom isn't until the end of dawn, but I challenge you to 
prove me wrong on the "used car salesman spiel" given you seem to have all the 
answers lately?

As for "behind the scenes" it is what it is?

As for how the Silverlight deployment will work - for a guy whom seems to have 
it all figured out you've not been paying attention. Silverlight will push out 
through the Windows Update, It will auto-update existing Silverlight 
installations via the auto-updater, OEM deals, Content driven solutions (ie NBC 
Olympics style setups) etc.

You want me to give you a run sheet of our entire game plan so you can run it 
off to your buddies at Adobe, think again bazza :) think again! :)

Sorry, nice try but no cigar.

Scott.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Beattie
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 1:22 AM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Success or Failure of SL.?

> sorry you're being argumentative bazza :)

Scott, you think everyone is argumentitive if they don't blindly
swallow your used-car-salesman speil and choosing to look at the fine
print. Meh.

but Scott, while I have your attention, what's the behind the scenes
story with this?

http://www.sdtimes.com/MICROSOFT_CO_SPONSORS_ECLIPSE_PROJECT_FOR_SILVERLIGHT/About_OPENSOURCE_and_SILVERLIGHT_and_ECLIPSE_and_MICROSOFT_and_SOYATEC/32968


"Also... how long until SL2 comes down in Windows Update??"

that's a good question

related to that: how will the runtime get onto people's machines (inc
non Microsoft ones) without Windows Upadate?**








** the answer, Scott, I'm sure we both agree, is "compelling apps".
Just like Flash did.


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RE: [OzSilverlight] Success or Failure of SL.?

[Scott Barnes]

Barry:

 - RE: How? - There are plug-in's available online that will allow you to 
export from Illustrator to XAML. Given FXG is on the horizon, I'd expect to see 
more to XAML as well.

- RE: Transfer. People generally don't want to change habits, unless they are 
either bored or curious.. generally the two are one in the same. Adopting a new 
technology is not an easy trick to do, you have to really be committed to the 
idea and have a ball of energy behind you to make it happen. Sometimes it's 
under duress (forced project) but 1x project is fine, sustaining migration to 
another technology still requires passion and interest. Sure, there are a lot 
out there, but what's your point?

- RE: Designers & Developers. Correct, workflow is king - yet you still need an 
architect whom understands both. It keeps the project timelines in check, and 
what do you mean by "traditional developers"? i.e. where are you basing your 
experience in this regard from?

As for Java.. Eclipse :) despite what folks hate/dislike about Eclipse, I'll 
agree that it's a great ball of Java code meets UI..

sorry you're being argumentative bazza :)



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Beattie [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 16 October 2008 8:46 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Success or Failure of SL.?

> showing them how easy it is to go from PS / IL to Expression
> Design/Blend is the goal.

how?

> I'd put money on there being more  C# developers out there
> than Action Script developers

ahhh... but that's the mistake. You're saying developers can't
transfer their skills from one language to another. In Microsoft
development there's a lot of C# developers... but then again, there's
a lot of Java developers out there ...

> - and that on average the C# developer has
> more experience (i.e. they are *better* :)).

sure. Designers are designers, not application developers. but C#
doesn't have a monopoly on application developers. Not only that, but
Flex and SL development need not be any different to traditional
software development where the tasks are split between people with
different skills. You don't need one person to do it all. you need
workflow to move the project from one pair of hands to another.

I've come across a lot of crap UX made by C# developers... and when
was the last time you came across a really good UI from a Java
program?


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RE: [OzSilverlight] Success or Failure of SL.?

[Scott Barnes]

This is a discussion that will end in no clear definitive way. As at the end of 
the day, it's not just about runtime vs. runtime and there are many factors in 
play. Ecosystem vs. Ecosystem, now that's an interesting debate :)



Few points:



-Stats are always meet with skepticism. Adobe have expressed that if you 
don't have 98% installation, then it's a hard road to follow. This is 
incorrect, QuickTime, Firefox, Chrome etc have had success and it disproves 
this theory. Furthermore, Adobe have outlined that 18million people per day 
install Flash (80% of these come from their Installation page and NOT via their 
updater). I'm no math genius, but 18million per day over a year overshoots 
1.4billion. The 1.4billion is the total number of users online today, so 
basically for a 98% statistics card, something's a little off here. How many 
times have you installed Flash this year is the question? Think about it..


-Plugin Fatigue is a myth. Word on the street is that people are afraid to 
install plugins, so less friction is best. I'll inform the 18million people 
whom just installed Flash today that they are the rare brave ones. Point is, 
Adobe have proven that despite the popularity with Flash, people are constantly 
installing plug-ins. It's almost a pre-existing tax that we seem to pay in 
order to see beyond the page gate of experience. The NBC Olympics here in the 
US proved this point, people were given an option to install Silverlight and 
watch High Quality footage of the Olympics or go see the YouTube version. They 
instead hit the install button and then remarked about how great the quality 
was. Most folks stayed 20mins+ watching the Olympics, Adobe's best day had 
3mins+ because the technology under the hood just couldn't cope with the 
demand. Point is, when we make bets, we do so with eyes wide open in a 
proactive fashion, not reactive.



-Silverlight has outpaced the Adobe Flex Developers, as if you look at 
public examples, FlexCoders mailing list (which arguably is the main hub for 
Flex crowd) rally in at around 10k in total (give or take). Silverlight.NET 
brings in around 30k+, we expect to see that number swarm even more so that 
Silverlight 2 is officially out.



-Flash is still Flash. Arguments / Stats aside, at the end of the day, .NET 
crowd didn't swarm to Adobe Flex before Silverlight and its clear they aren't 
about to. ActionScript is not an attractive language and it doesn't have the 
tools to back its play that the .NET crowd are accustomed to. I myself, before 
joining Microsoft was happy in my Flex Builder existence and it wasn't until I 
actually sat down and used Visual Studio 2005 that I fully appreciated the 
power of a good tool. The point is, to use Flex etc you have to essentially 
abandon this tool and start over. When you have deadlines or shipping schedules 
to meet, the learning curve just got steeper. That and C# is a widely trusted 
used language - "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"



-This all means null. You are all extremely smart individuals, you've 
managed to overcome the mathematical hurdles put before you, you've achieved 
success in a variety of ways. You the developer know what you like and don't 
like, at the end of the day this is about what you feel the most comfortable 
doing. If Silverlight or Flex appeals to you than that's what you should do, as 
I'd rather anyone on this list adopts Silverlight because they WANT to not 
because they are FORCED/ TRICKED into (buyer's remorse is the worst thing to 
overcome for any business).

The world is going through a massive upgrade wave, getting reactive and playing 
games to stomp out Silverlight is not smart, it's childish and it's a game we 
won't be playing (we have our vision, they have theirs, difference is we aren't 
looking over their shoulders). Maturity is something Microsoft has a history 
of, and we're extremely keen to work with both developer and designer folks to 
help them create beyond what's expected of them. That's our goal, it's not to 
squash Adobe or "kill" them as the press outlines, we are more interested in 
ensuring Microsoft based developers can create compelling & powerful 
experiences, that's it.



The markets are hurting worldwide, Microsoft is able to continue to invest even 
in these troubled times, so we're still moving our engines full steam ahead and 
today, one day after the Silverlight release I'm already in discussions with 
what's left to do in the next release. We're not easing off the pedal, the team 
are still pumped and excited about this next wave of features.



Stick to what you know, and beat us up if we've overlooked anything, as you'd 
be surprised at how much impact the community at large world-wide has on the 
pro

RE: [OzSilverlight] Colorful Expression Add-In

[Scott Barnes]

Jonas,

It's making the rounds internally here at corp :) well done! ... now why didn't 
we think of it :)


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonas Follesø
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:43 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Colorful Expression Add-In

Hi,

Just want to tell you about Colorful Expression, a project I've been working on 
a couple of weeks. It's an add-in for Expression Blend and Design (but can be 
run as a standalone application as well). The add-in brings your Adobe Kuler 
into Blend/Design as a new panel.

Adobe Kuler (http://kuler.adobe.com ) is a great online RIA to create color 
themes. You select a base color, and it has different rule sets to help you 
find four matching colors. You can save your color themes online and share them 
with the community.

The project (screen shots, downloads and code) is available over at 
http://www.codeplex.com/colorful .


Cheers,
Jonas Follesø
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RE: [OzSilverlight] A couple of questions

[Scott Barnes]

I just found this framework, check it out :)

http://puremvc.org/component/option,com_wrapper/Itemid,163/


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 11:14 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] A couple of questions

Well let me weigh in where I can :)


· You essentially create a Façade that handles 
registering/unregistering command classes. The job of this façade is to marry 
both an EventClass and CommandClass together (as well as echo the state of the 
applications mode - ie Initializing, Loaded etc).

· A CommandClass is essentially a packet of Business Logic. It's job is 
to execute on a given role, in that it may ask the ModelLocator for state based 
information or it may request a service (via delegate pattern) to fire a remote 
response. It can also act as a payload for SubCommands as well (a Command can 
instantiate other commands within - via a Macro Command like pattern).

· When you fire an Event via  Notification/Observer (ie in our case it 
just bubbles an event against a known index, so many Listeners can act on the 
same event) it will the FrontController will automatically interpret this event 
and fire the command it's married to via the executeCommand() method (or 
however you want to structure this).


So essentially you can be anywhere in the view so to speak (typically you want 
to marry a view with a viewhelper to promote re-use for the view vs simply a 
code-behind (this is more of code style though so it's got no hard fast rule 
here). The ViewHelper simply needs to fire a Notification event (via a 
singleton class) and the rest will orchestrate itself.

Now, the secret to the orchestration is that you want to have a Model which you 
bind your controls to, in that pretty much like old school DataSets, you simply 
bind the controls to properties within respective models. When you fire a 
command, what you want to do is via the executeCommand() update that given 
model as this will automatically update yoru view throughout (you can do some 
interesting binding routines here and get away with it). The trick for us 
however is you need to ensure the INotifyPropertyChanged is implemented in the 
Model, as you need to tell the controls that new data is in the model and they 
should refresh (we hope to clean this up in future releases may I add, as yes 
it's an absolute pain in the royal butt).

I plan on releasing some code via new project I've started called "Nexus" 
(which I'm extremely excited about and thank this list for inspiration for such 
an idea).

http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/2008/09/19/introducing-ms-project-nexus.aspx


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miguel Madero
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 7:11 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] A couple of questions

Scott,

Sounds interesting, specially for composite applications (a'la CAB), but I 
think that could be a bit complex for simpler views/apps, something like what 
Nikhil did with the Scripts was really simple and straightforward, the only 
disadvantage I saw was that it added heavy dependencies to the dlr.


 Miguel A. Madero Reyes
 www.miguelmadero.com<http://www.miguelmadero.com/> (blog)
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 (871)730-8319
 (871)763-0020
 Peten #509
 Fracc Florida Blanca, 27260
 Torreón, Coahuila
P "Please reconsider your environmental responsibility before printing this 
e-mail"
The information in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. 
It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, 
any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be 
taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Friday, 19 September 2008 3:52 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] A couple of questions

The other benefit of Commands is that essentially you can throw the same 
command from different areas within your View, which helps reduce coupling of 
the View with how the overall traffic flows within your Client.

You can build a FrontController class which marries both the Event and Command 
together today. Given that Silverlight has RoutedEvents, one could simply throw 
an Event (through a homemade EventDispatcher), the FrontController catches it 
and marries the event with a command and then the command fires a execute 
method. This in turn will carry out the workflow required in order to achieve a 
successful command delivery. Upon a result, the command can also throw another 
command (depending on the data returned) and so on.

This is good, as it essentially allows again multiple events to feed off the 
same commands (but yet have different semantic value) whilst 

RE: [OzSilverlight] A couple of questions

[Scott Barnes]

Well let me weigh in where I can :)


· You essentially create a Façade that handles 
registering/unregistering command classes. The job of this façade is to marry 
both an EventClass and CommandClass together (as well as echo the state of the 
applications mode - ie Initializing, Loaded etc).

· A CommandClass is essentially a packet of Business Logic. It's job is 
to execute on a given role, in that it may ask the ModelLocator for state based 
information or it may request a service (via delegate pattern) to fire a remote 
response. It can also act as a payload for SubCommands as well (a Command can 
instantiate other commands within - via a Macro Command like pattern).

· When you fire an Event via  Notification/Observer (ie in our case it 
just bubbles an event against a known index, so many Listeners can act on the 
same event) it will the FrontController will automatically interpret this event 
and fire the command it's married to via the executeCommand() method (or 
however you want to structure this).


So essentially you can be anywhere in the view so to speak (typically you want 
to marry a view with a viewhelper to promote re-use for the view vs simply a 
code-behind (this is more of code style though so it's got no hard fast rule 
here). The ViewHelper simply needs to fire a Notification event (via a 
singleton class) and the rest will orchestrate itself.

Now, the secret to the orchestration is that you want to have a Model which you 
bind your controls to, in that pretty much like old school DataSets, you simply 
bind the controls to properties within respective models. When you fire a 
command, what you want to do is via the executeCommand() update that given 
model as this will automatically update yoru view throughout (you can do some 
interesting binding routines here and get away with it). The trick for us 
however is you need to ensure the INotifyPropertyChanged is implemented in the 
Model, as you need to tell the controls that new data is in the model and they 
should refresh (we hope to clean this up in future releases may I add, as yes 
it's an absolute pain in the royal butt).

I plan on releasing some code via new project I've started called "Nexus" 
(which I'm extremely excited about and thank this list for inspiration for such 
an idea).

http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/2008/09/19/introducing-ms-project-nexus.aspx


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miguel Madero
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 7:11 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] A couple of questions

Scott,

Sounds interesting, specially for composite applications (a'la CAB), but I 
think that could be a bit complex for simpler views/apps, something like what 
Nikhil did with the Scripts was really simple and straightforward, the only 
disadvantage I saw was that it added heavy dependencies to the dlr.


 Miguel A. Madero Reyes
 www.miguelmadero.com<http://www.miguelmadero.com/> (blog)
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 (871)730-8319
 (871)763-0020
 Peten #509
 Fracc Florida Blanca, 27260
 Torreón, Coahuila
P "Please reconsider your environmental responsibility before printing this 
e-mail"
The information in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. 
It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, 
any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be 
taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Friday, 19 September 2008 3:52 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] A couple of questions

The other benefit of Commands is that essentially you can throw the same 
command from different areas within your View, which helps reduce coupling of 
the View with how the overall traffic flows within your Client.

You can build a FrontController class which marries both the Event and Command 
together today. Given that Silverlight has RoutedEvents, one could simply throw 
an Event (through a homemade EventDispatcher), the FrontController catches it 
and marries the event with a command and then the command fires a execute 
method. This in turn will carry out the workflow required in order to achieve a 
successful command delivery. Upon a result, the command can also throw another 
command (depending on the data returned) and so on.

This is good, as it essentially allows again multiple events to feed off the 
same commands (but yet have different semantic value) whilst at the same time 
keeping parts of the overall view abstracted from one another.

Martin Fowler's J2EE patterns have some good paths here to follow around this 
kind of thing.

Actually I feel a blog post + code brewing now.. stand by.. (*cracks fingers* - 
time to put my code where my mouth is!)

RE: [OzSilverlight] A couple of questions

[Scott Barnes]

The other benefit of Commands is that essentially you can throw the same 
command from different areas within your View, which helps reduce coupling of 
the View with how the overall traffic flows within your Client.

You can build a FrontController class which marries both the Event and Command 
together today. Given that Silverlight has RoutedEvents, one could simply throw 
an Event (through a homemade EventDispatcher), the FrontController catches it 
and marries the event with a command and then the command fires a execute 
method. This in turn will carry out the workflow required in order to achieve a 
successful command delivery. Upon a result, the command can also throw another 
command (depending on the data returned) and so on.

This is good, as it essentially allows again multiple events to feed off the 
same commands (but yet have different semantic value) whilst at the same time 
keeping parts of the overall view abstracted from one another.

Martin Fowler's J2EE patterns have some good paths here to follow around this 
kind of thing.

Actually I feel a blog post + code brewing now.. stand by.. (*cracks fingers* - 
time to put my code where my mouth is!)


--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Platforms Product Manager)
Microsoft Corp.<http://www.microsoft.com/> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Mobile: + 1 (425) 802-9503 (New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonas Follesø
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 8:23 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] A couple of questions

Well, I can't answer for Jordan but I'll try to illustrate.

While using the Model-View-ViewModel pattern you have all your UI state and 
behavior in a separate class. This class is normally set as the data context on 
your View (XAML page), and you bind everything against this class. Even things 
like "IsSaveEnabled" to enable the save button.

The View communicates back to the ViewModel by commands. The benefit is that 
you don't have any "btnSave_Click" event handler in your codebehind. Instead 
your ViewModel waits for that Command to trigger, and then do the work.

The benefit of designing your application using these patterns is that you can 
build quite big applications with (almost) no code-behind. This makes your app 
easier to test, more maintainable, and easier to work with for a designer using 
Blend. So what is the problem? The problem is that there is no 
declarative(XAML) way of triggering animations when thing happens. So if you 
want to start a storyboard then the ViewModel IsBussy property is true, you 
will have to write this code by hand.

Typically that would involve listening to a PropertyChanged event in the 
codebehind of the form, and when the ViewModel IsBussy changes to true, then 
start the storyboard, when it changes to false, then stop it. This isn't the 
end of the world, but when we're so close to achieving no-code behind it would 
be nice to go all the way. Also, doing this forces your designer to have a 
stroyboard with that exact name (say ShowProgressanimation) present, so you as 
the developer ends up "owning" part of the user experience. If the designer 
accidentally deletes the storyboard the app will fail at runtime, or perhaps 
not even compile. The less named elements in your XAML file the better.

- Jonas

On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Barry Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> It's a PITA to make apps with all the bells and whistles in XAML then have
> to break M-V-VM to "finish" it off.
got an example to show what you mean? (just curious/wanting to learn)


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RE: [OzSilverlight] A couple of questions

[Scott Barnes]

Jonas,

Correct but it also depends at what level you're at and what you define is 
secret. In that if a user is authenticated and you have all the "forms" for 
example housed in the .XAP (which is fine), then before you accept and receive 
data between the client and server you need to sanitize it and ensure the user 
doesn't go rogue. It's something at times I've seen folks in both Flash and 
Silverlight space overlook (as once they get through the security gate, it's an 
assumed the user will not interfere with the client). It can be small things 
like switching parts of the UI on or off and the more clues you give a 
malicious user, the more they have to work with in terms of figuring out what 
it is you have written and how you expect data to be sent back and forth.

It's more of a cautionary tip and I'd highly recommend folks (when it comes to 
Admin vs. Public) look into dynamically loading .XAP files or more to the point 
bring XAML in over the wire as well.

I've gotten loading of modules to work dynamically and should post some demo 
code around this as it's quite cool to bring in .XAP files over the wire as 
needed. As when you load a .XAP file, it stores it local cache (ie not in 
memory) and then feeds from it when it needs it as well, so the tax isn't high. 
You also can do sniff tests to determine if an assembly is loaded or not and if 
it isn't go get it.

I've taken a framework I wrote in the early days of Flex and ported it over to 
Silverlight, (SynergyFlex = SynergyLight) :D and as we draw closer to 
Silverlight 2 ship dates I'll see if I can spare up some time to release it as 
a basic starter guide to some of these ideas.



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonas Follesø
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 5:12 AM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] A couple of questions

Scott,

On point 3, why would that matter? Even if you fake the response and "trick" 
your Silverlight app (which would be easy, just download the XAP, unzip it, and 
have it talk to a different end-point), your XAML shouldn't really contain any 
"secret" information anyway. Your users is not part of your markup, that's just 
data. That information should be sent to the user in an authenticated WCF 
call So even if you manage to enable the "show all user" screen, your 
service should re-validate on the server side before giving you that data.

But there might be cases where what you describe makes allot of sense. And 
partial loading of XAP's is quite interesting stuff - could be useful for 
things like composite Silverlight applications, where you download modules as 
needed.



On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Hi Ross! (long time no speak) :)



1)  You have a number of options, essentially the easiest way is to tap 
into the Windows Communication Foundation services and utilize this option. 
It's essentially sending data over the wire in XML format, Silverlight has 
great hooks already built in to handle these type of requests. We're also 
looking to do more here to make things more seamless in upcoming versions. I 
can't say more than that, but it will get a lot easier in the long term.

2)  That's the intent going forward. We see a great deal of positive power 
with using LINQ inside Silverlight and WPF. It's almost safe to say out loud to 
think of LINQ as  you're Data Passport between client and server. There will be 
more expansion on this in the future as well.

3)  Security will remain similar or if not the same as 
ASP.NET<http://ASP.NET> today. The difference is on the client, you essentially 
need to architect in such a way that the initial "first ask" is defining whom 
the person is and what their session may look like. From there, it's a case of 
"CanIHaveAccessTo(args)" style security access (given you're in a non-Refresh 
situation - assuming this is a 100% Silverlight App by the way). Now, the 
danger here is if not architected correctly is that you can fake the 
"true/false" responses, so the further piece to this is to maybe consider using 
XAML over the wire. In that "can I have access to ViewAllUsrProfiles?, If the 
answer is true, you essentially trigger a .xap download or you load .XAML 
remotely, via an ASP.NET<http://ASP.NET> page (pushing the content). As this 
will also be a secondary check to make sure they did indeed have positive 
response to the question"

4)  Could you expand on the Binary Formatter? I.e. what do you have in mind?

5)  We're working on smarter ways to go between Client and Server, but 
can't say much just yet on what that will look like. We're still actively 
planning features and so fee

RE: [OzSilverlight] A couple of questions

[Scott Barnes]

I'm seeing a bit of traffic these days around "how to architect" Silverlight. I 
think this is exciting news as folks have not only digested Silverlight well, 
but are now pushing beyond the boundaries (growth is a powerful thing to 
monitor and observe).

I've got a few ideas on how to solve this, but am curious to hear some of your 
pain points specifically around what hurdles you face when architecting Rich 
Applications such as Silverlight?


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of .net noobie
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:43 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] A couple of questions

ok cool, thanks
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Jonas Follesø <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well, you can actually do all this from a Silverlight application. And anything 
you could do from MS AJAX, you could do from Silverlight.

And to be fair the "Client Application Services" (for Windows Forms/WPF) comes 
with classes that abstract away the service interaction, and actually gives you 
a "client side" Membership- and Role Provider. But under the hood it's all HTTP 
JSON calls (I assume for performance reasons, as their API only has synchronous 
methods for accessing the Membership- and Role Provider).

Check this post: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/brada/archive/2007/05/23/net-client-application-services.aspx
for more information on what you can do.

The service-end point used by the "Client Application Services" client 
libraries are:
http://localhost/myservice/Profile_JSON_AppService.axd
http://localhost/myservice/Authentication_JSON_AppService.axd
http://localhost/myservice/Role_JSON_AppService.axd

You don't get WSDL for these services, but you can invoke them as REST services 
and do things like create user, create role etc. given that the currently 
authenticated user have the permissions needed.

On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 2:19 PM, .net noobie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"new users, create roles, change role assignment etc." they are the things I 
wanted to do...

so really I would be better off handling all this in the 
ASP.NET page that is hosting my Silverlight Applications and 
then talking too and from the ASP.NET page with my Silverlight 
Application to do these things?

then to stop the page reloading I would need to do these tasks "new users, 
create roles, change role assignment etc." via something like MS AJAX...?

On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 2:07 PM, Jonas Follesø <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>From a Silverlight client point of view, what else do you really need? 
>Everything that has to do with validation, accessing user store etc. has to 
>happen on the server and not on the client. Some thing, like Authorization 
>(does this user belong to this role) is useful from the UI, as you can 
>enable/disable certain buttons and functionality. But in the end you have to 
>redo all the validation on the server as you can't trust any input coming from 
>the client.

The reason you got allot more functionality in ASP.NET is 
because you're running on the server, and that is a whole different ball game. 
You got functionality to create new users, create roles, change role assignment 
etc. To do those things from a Silverlight client you would have to expose (and 
secure) the individual pieces your self.






On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 2:00 PM, .net noobie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Authentication Application Service, via WCF is a very limited set of 
functionality compared to what you have in a ASP.NET page, you 
can do a few things like "Login, Logout" and one to two there things right..?

when I was checking it out I ended up making a normal WCF service for my 
Silverlight application, then adding the membership to it  via just wrapping 
the methods of the Membership class I wanted, but it also had a few issues 
doing it that way to, but I got all the parts of Membership I wanted to use...?

is this a bad way to go about it in the future?

please note it was just a learning application for myself, so I was not really 
worried about any security issues passing the data back and forth at the time

On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Ross McKinnon <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thanks to both of you.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On 
Behalf Of Jordan Knight
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2008 12:44 PM

To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] A couple of questions


You where slowed down by all the extra detail :)



Regards,

Jordan Knight
Readify - Senior Developer

Suite 206 Nolan Tower | 29 Rakaia Way | Docklands | VIC 3008 | Australia
M: +61 403 532 404 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | W: 
www.readify.net



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto

RE: [OzSilverlight] A couple of questions

[Scott Barnes]

Hi Ross! (long time no speak) :)


1)  You have a number of options, essentially the easiest way is to tap 
into the Windows Communication Foundation services and utilize this option. 
It's essentially sending data over the wire in XML format, Silverlight has 
great hooks already built in to handle these type of requests. We're also 
looking to do more here to make things more seamless in upcoming versions. I 
can't say more than that, but it will get a lot easier in the long term.

2)  That's the intent going forward. We see a great deal of positive power 
with using LINQ inside Silverlight and WPF. It's almost safe to say out loud to 
think of LINQ as  you're Data Passport between client and server. There will be 
more expansion on this in the future as well.

3)  Security will remain similar or if not the same as ASP.NET today. The 
difference is on the client, you essentially need to architect in such a way 
that the initial "first ask" is defining whom the person is and what their 
session may look like. From there, it's a case of "CanIHaveAccessTo(args)" 
style security access (given you're in a non-Refresh situation - assuming this 
is a 100% Silverlight App by the way). Now, the danger here is if not 
architected correctly is that you can fake the "true/false" responses, so the 
further piece to this is to maybe consider using XAML over the wire. In that 
"can I have access to ViewAllUsrProfiles?, If the answer is true, you 
essentially trigger a .xap download or you load .XAML remotely, via an ASP.NET 
page (pushing the content). As this will also be a secondary check to make sure 
they did indeed have positive response to the question"

4)  Could you expand on the Binary Formatter? I.e. what do you have in mind?

5)  We're working on smarter ways to go between Client and Server, but 
can't say much just yet on what that will look like. We're still actively 
planning features and so feel free to expand on what you're thinking here as 
I'm more than happy to walk this into the next planning meeting and discuss 
with the team.

P.S
I'll be back home in Brisbane (currently Belinda and I are living in Seattle 
now) around XMAS time. So if you're still stuck around then, I'm sure we can 
find a E&Y event to meet up at and discuss in depth over a beer or two. Failing 
that, feel free to contact me offline to discuss in depth should the above not 
be enough (same goes for anyone on this list btw).

--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Platforms Product Manager)
Microsoft Corp.<http://www.microsoft.com/> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Mobile: + 1 (425) 802-9503 (New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ross McKinnon
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 7:20 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] A couple of questions

Hi all,

I am the CIO of Michael Hill Jeweller which is an international (US, Canada, 
New Zealand, Australia) jewellery retail chain whose global head office is 
based in Brisbane and we are in the process of replacing our global website. 
The executive here are very excited by the opportunities presented by 
silverlight and we will be developing the new site using this technology and 
are trying to release it as soon as possible.

I did have a couple of questions which I have posed to Microsoft, but they have 
been unable to answer and most of them are directed towards my personally 
perceived weaknesses of silverlight and I was hoping that someone would be able 
to point out how they can be achieved. Hopefully our work arounds are not the 
suggested best practice.
1) What is the best way of persisting user identity through multiple 
silverlight pages?
2) It appears to me that linq to SQL entities seem to lose the ability to 
maintain state (ie know what is changed) after passing through a wcf call and 
silverlight treats it like a normal class. Is that the case and if so, is that 
going to be changed?
3) What is the best practice for integrating security and sessions between 
asp.net / silverlight / wcf?
4) Are there plans for a binary formatter in the silverlight framework?
5) I have been overlaying silverlight pages over aspx with master and content 
pages. The largest issue with that is being able to pass information between 
your master and content pages (easily achievable in aspx), but are there any 
plans to implement a method to easily pass information between SL pages on the 
client (usually user specific information), other than at creation of the page.
Thanks for any help in advance,
Ross.

18/9/2008   Ross McKinnon listserver@ozSilverlight.com

 This email and any attachm

RE: [OzSilverlight] How to play swf extension files in silverlight.?

[Scott Barnes]

Open Screen Initiative?  *rolls eyes*..  I wish I could say more on that but it 
is probably not wise at this point in my career ;) hehe.

That being said, have you seen http://www.silverflash.com?

 :)


--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Platforms Product Manager)
Microsoft Corp.<http://www.microsoft.com/> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Mobile: + 1 (425) 802-9503 (New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gilbert Corrales
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 8:49 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] How to play swf extension files in silverlight.?

Or push for Silverlight to be part of the open screen initiative ;) I wondering 
if that is even a possibility?

On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Sam Lai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>> wrote:
If all you want to do is play swf files within a silverlight
interface, you could do some javascripting that loads the swf in a
html div and overlay that on top of the silverlight interface.

On 9/16/08, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> You can't. SWF is a proprietary binary solution built by Adobe and has no
> support inside Silverlight.
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> On Behalf Of Muhammad Niaz
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 10:55 AM
> To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
> Subject: [OzSilverlight] How to play swf extension files in silverlight.?
>
> Hi all, can anybody tell me  how to play with swf files in silverlight.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Muhammad Niaz
> ---
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[OzSilverlight] RE: How to play swf extension files in silverlight.?

[Scott Barnes]

You can't. SWF is a proprietary binary solution built by Adobe and has no 
support inside Silverlight.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Muhammad Niaz
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 10:55 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] How to play swf extension files in silverlight.?

Hi all, can anybody tell me  how to play with swf files in silverlight.



Regards,
Muhammad Niaz
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[OzSilverlight] RE: Announcing "DevSta"

[Scott Barnes]

Love this idea :) and nice site!

--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Platforms Product Manager)
Microsoft Corp.<http://www.microsoft.com/> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Mobile: + 1 (425) 802-9503 (New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philip Beadle
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:07 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] RE: Announcing "DevSta"

Signed up and ready to go to Vegas :)

Regards,
Philip Beadle
Readify | Principal Consultant
Microsoft MVP - ASP/ASP.NET, MCAD, MCT
Suite 206 Nolan Tower | 29 Rakaia Way | Docklands | VIC 3008 | Australia
M: +61 417 301 024 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | C: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] | W: www.readify.net<http://www.readify.net/>

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Campbell, Duncan 
(SYD-MWG)
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 5:01 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Announcing "DevSta"

Hi Guys,

I thought I'd let you in a little early (the official announcement will be 
going out tomorrow) on a project we've been working on for Microsoft that was 
just launched today:

http://devsta.microsoft.com.au

Basically, DevSta is a competition where developers get 200 hours and 8 minutes 
to write and submit an application (windows, web - including Silverlight - or 
Vista gadget). The app has to be based on a theme which won't be released until 
the competition actually starts in a month (so you've got plenty of time to 
free up your calendars).

The comp is exclusively for Australian developers, and there's some pretty cool 
prizes for the best app (a trip to Vegas, tix to MIX 2009, Xbox's etc.)

Check out the site - there's a great intro video (crank up the volume - the 
sound is awesome) - it only plays the first time you hit the site, but you can 
also download from the "resources" area (or clear your cookies and watch it 
again - I've seen it about a hundred times over the last month and am still not 
tired of it - although his teeth are too good for a developer! ).

Cheers,


Duncan Campbell | Development Team Lead

McCann Worldgroup Sydney | 166 William Street, Woolloomooloo, NSW 2011, 
Australia
T: +61 (0)2 9994 4362 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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RE: [OzSilverlight] Vista sidebar gadgets

[Scott Barnes]

Hehe no need, I'm already kicking off some threads on this one as I'm horribly 
embarrassed by this, I can only apologize! :)

That being said, I once twittered the following pearls of home grown wisdom:

A business that deals with money, depends on processes, yet the one process 
that has no process is the ability to report a broken process
http://twitter.com/MossyBlog/statuses/848077595

In this case, it applies here :)

--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Platforms Product Manager)
Microsoft Corp.<http://www.microsoft.com/> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Mobile: + 1 (425) 802-9503 (New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 6:41 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Vista sidebar gadgets

Whew. I thought there must have been something wrong with me for not being able 
to find it. :)

I'll post a feature for there to be a "Report Bug/Feature" link on the 
Silverlight client that takes you to the right page.

Thanks Scott!!
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 8:28 AM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Stephen raised a great point that visibility on the how to submit a bug via 
connect.microsoft.com<http://connect.microsoft.com/> is not obvious (I myself 
got lost in the weeds on this one).



I've posted a blog post on the how for now, at :



http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/2008/08/26/how-to-submit-a-bug-feature-request-for-silverlight.aspx



I'm now on a crusade to get this resolved in a matter that is simple, elegant 
and amplified enough so that it should have minimal effort on your folks part 
to log bugs/suggestions.



Thanks Stephen!



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2008 11:44 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com>

Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Vista sidebar gadgets



Just did a quick check using 32bit sidebar and it still doesn't work for Beta 
2.0. I made sure it showed *32 in task manager.

Not sure if Tim is still lurking on this list, might check with him to see if 
it works for him.

cheers,
Stephen

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 9:17 AM, Perry Stathopoulos <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Tim Heuer had a recent write up about vista sidebar gadget and Silverlight. 
Here it is:

http://timheuer.com/blog/archive/2007/03/11/14010.aspx



He makes reference to this blog post that has a VS template for creating SL 
gadgets:

http://www.lazarciuc.ro/ioan/2008/08/02/creating-a-vista-sidebar-gadget-using-microsoft-silverlight/



HTH,

Perry



From: Stephen Price<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 10:25 AM

To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com>

Subject: [OzSilverlight] Vista sidebar gadgets



Hey all,

I finally got around to having a play with making a Silverlight Vista sidebar 
gadget. Making the gadget was simple enough, I just made the Hello world gadget 
from msdn.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-au/library/bb456468(VS.85).aspx<http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-au/library/bb456468%28VS.85%29.aspx>

I grabbed a Silverlight app that I made a few months ago and checked it worked 
in a local browser (in the html page) and it did. I then put the html into the 
Vista gadget and all it showed me was the Download silverlight button. I 
clicked it and it showed me that it wanted to run the Silverlight 2 Beta 1 
version of Silverlight. Just wondering if I've missed something somewhere. 
Anyone tried this out?

cheers,
Stephen

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RE: [OzSilverlight] Vista sidebar gadgets

[Scott Barnes]

Stephen raised a great point that visibility on the how to submit a bug via 
connect.microsoft.com is not obvious (I myself got lost in the weeds on this 
one).

I've posted a blog post on the how for now, at :

http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/2008/08/26/how-to-submit-a-bug-feature-request-for-silverlight.aspx

I'm now on a crusade to get this resolved in a matter that is simple, elegant 
and amplified enough so that it should have minimal effort on your folks part 
to log bugs/suggestions.

Thanks Stephen!

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2008 11:44 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Vista sidebar gadgets

Just did a quick check using 32bit sidebar and it still doesn't work for Beta 
2.0. I made sure it showed *32 in task manager.

Not sure if Tim is still lurking on this list, might check with him to see if 
it works for him.

cheers,
Stephen
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 9:17 AM, Perry Stathopoulos <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> wrote:
Tim Heuer had a recent write up about vista sidebar gadget and Silverlight. 
Here it is:
http://timheuer.com/blog/archive/2007/03/11/14010.aspx

He makes reference to this blog post that has a VS template for creating SL 
gadgets:
http://www.lazarciuc.ro/ioan/2008/08/02/creating-a-vista-sidebar-gadget-using-microsoft-silverlight/

HTH,
Perry

From: Stephen Price
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 10:25 AM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Vista sidebar gadgets

Hey all,

I finally got around to having a play with making a Silverlight Vista sidebar 
gadget. Making the gadget was simple enough, I just made the Hello world gadget 
from msdn.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-au/library/bb456468(VS.85).aspx

I grabbed a Silverlight app that I made a few months ago and checked it worked 
in a local browser (in the html page) and it did. I then put the html into the 
Vista gadget and all it showed me was the Download silverlight button. I 
clicked it and it showed me that it wanted to run the Silverlight 2 Beta 1 
version of Silverlight. Just wondering if I've missed something somewhere. 
Anyone tried this out?

cheers,
Stephen
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RE: [OzSilverlight] Vista sidebar gadgets

[Scott Barnes]

+1 agreed. I usually bring things I see that community struggling with in 
various chats with the teams etc to determine if this is not only mainstream, 
but to ensure that we're thinking of these style of scenarios for the long term 
fixes etc. That being said, never assume I've covered off a bug or issue by 
posting here, as it's important that folks submit these via 
connect.microsoft.com as plan A and then feel free to ping me offline as plan B 
(that or Tim ) if you feel there is no response, or the response you received 
isn't something you agree with.

As the more folks whom poll the teams with a feature request, bug report etc, 
the more visibility it will obviously get and at the same time we can separate 
known bugs from the unknown as well (as it may be new to you, but could be 
obviously old to us).

HTH.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Sterling
Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2008 3:06 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Vista sidebar gadgets

Probably not a great assumption that Scott will enter the bug...if you go to 
connect.microsoft.com and enter that bug That is replicated into our bug 
database AND people outside the list can see it and vote on it (supplying 
pressure to the dev team to action it)

Thanks
Chuck


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jordan Knight
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 1:06 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Vista sidebar gadgets

I think your thread will act as a bug report with peeps like Scott Barnes 
lurking on the list :)

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Monday, 25 August 2008 1:11 AM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Vista sidebar gadgets

Yeah I got the same thing. I did come across his blog post in his travels and 
it looked like I did everything right... Perhaps I should put a bug report in 
on it seeing it's a beta and all.

Now to find where to do that... Shame it's not built into the client. Hmm. 
Can't seem to find it after 10 mins of searching. NADD kicking in, lost 
interest.
On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 7:18 PM, Jonathan Parker <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

This guy has: 
http://blog.benhall.me.uk/2007/05/vista-sidebar-gadget-using-silverlight.html



Though when I installed his gadget I found that it showed the same download SL 
button which took me to a link to install SL 1.



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2008 12:25 AM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com>
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Vista sidebar gadgets



Hey all,

I finally got around to having a play with making a Silverlight Vista sidebar 
gadget. Making the gadget was simple enough, I just made the Hello world gadget 
from msdn.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-au/library/bb456468(VS.85).aspx<http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-au/library/bb456468%28VS.85%29.aspx>

I grabbed a Silverlight app that I made a few months ago and checked it worked 
in a local browser (in the html page) and it did. I then put the html into the 
Vista gadget and all it showed me was the Download silverlight button. I 
clicked it and it showed me that it wanted to run the Silverlight 2 Beta 1 
version of Silverlight. Just wondering if I've missed something somewhere. 
Anyone tried this out?

cheers,
Stephen

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-

RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 2 and Sharepoint Web Services

[Scott Barnes]

For the record Phil,

I've not gotten this to work either with an internal SharePoint site. In fact 
it's inspired me to seek an alternative route:

http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/2008/08/14/do-you-know-silverlight-has-an-inbuilt-native-rss-reader.aspx

I haven't checked with the team to see if this is a known bug as per below or 
what the story is, but I'll follow up with them ASAP.


--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Platforms Product Manager)
Microsoft Corp.<http://www.microsoft.com/> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Mobile: + 1 (425) 802-9503 (New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:33 AM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 2 and Sharepoint Web Services

What's your clientaccesspolicy.xml file look like?

There was a small change with Beta 2 that broke mine, maybe you have a beta 1 
friendly file but not beta 2?

My old version (beta 1) had
  

  

the new version (beta 2) has
  

  

Hope that helps...

cheers,
Stephen
On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 6:03 PM, Philip Beadle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Hi All,



I'm not having any luck with getting Silverlight to call a Sharepoint web 
service.  Using wither the HttpWebrequest or the WebClient I get security 
errors.  I have used SP Designer to drop both the access policy files into the 
root and still no go.



I have SP1 installed.



Has anyone got this to work?



Regards,

Philip Beadle
Readify | Principal Consultant
Microsoft MVP - ASP/ASP.NET<http://ASP.NET>, MCAD, MCT

[cid:image001.gif@01C9011F.3BEB2550]

Suite 206 Nolan Tower | 29 Rakaia Way | Docklands | VIC 3008 | Australia
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<>

RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight LAMP

[Scott Barnes]

Silverlight will work with REST Services:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.net.webclient(VS.95).aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.net.webrequest(VS.95).aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.net.httpwebrequest(VS.95).aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.json(VS.95).aspx

etc..

Check out the various API's that are available, as we've made a few approaches 
to the problem. There's even an inbuilt RSS Reader should you want to read RSS 
feeds.
(http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.servicemodel.syndication(VS.95).aspx)


As to which you use under the surface, entirely up to you and there's no 
penalty for using non-Microsoft products with Silverlight. Obviously with 
products like WCF we've made life easier, but should you want to opt for 
something else, no harm no foul and I'll not frown upon you for doing it 
either! :)

Barry might :)

--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Platforms Product Manager)
Microsoft Corp. | Blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Mobile: + 1 (425) 
802-9503 (New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog | MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Beattie
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 5:29 AM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight LAMP

please forgive for saying so, David, but that's no real answer. that's
only skirting the issue.

if Silverlight is to be truly successful it has to play nice with
other technologies. And that means Stephen deserves a working answer.

meh, my 2c.
you'd agree, Scott?



On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 7:02 PM, David Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 7:00 PM, Stephen Price <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Was just wondering if anyone had thought of (or tried?) a way of running
>> Silverlight on a purely LAMP system?
>>
>> I use a webhost that uses Apache and MySQL. I'd like to be able to use
>> MySQL for the backend but am not sure how I'd get around not being able to
>> run my webservice on a non-microsoft web server. I'm assuming that I'd have
>> to write a java (or some other similar technology) to get that working.
>>
>> So the webserver would of course serve my Silverlight app, which would
>> make calls to the webservice which talks to the MySQL server.
>
> Wouldn't it just be easier to change web host?
>
> --
> David Connors ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> Software Engineer
> Codify Pty Ltd - www.codify.com
> Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417
> 189 363
> Address Info: http://www.codify.com/AboutUs/ContactDetails
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RE: [OzSilverlight] SL critical update KB955011

[Scott Barnes]

Correct, beta 1 is no longer supported by us. You can look to getting access to 
the runtime from maybe some friends/peers but I only suggest that if you have a 
critical need. Meaning you're about to showcase your examples to you business 
decision makers etc.. In which case let me know and I'll see what I can do to 
help.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philip Beadle
Sent: Tuesday, 22 July 2008 5:34 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] SL critical update KB955011

You cant install beta 1 anymore its expired.

Regards,
Philip Beadle
Readify | Principal Consultant
Microsoft MVP - ASP/ASP.NET, MCAD
Suite 206 Nolan Tower | 29 Rakaia Way | Docklands | VIC 3008 | Australia
M: +61 417 301 024 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | C: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] | W: www.readify.net<http://www.readify.net/>

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vincent 
Vergonjeanne
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 10:30 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] SL critical update KB955011

Sorry Scott, How do I force a specific install? Beta 1 for instance?

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:31 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] SL critical update KB955011

It's for FF3 mostly. If you have any sights that have "Get Silverlight" issues 
around versioning, please little-r me as it shouldn't happen and those that 
have that in place are generally sites that have an absolute need to run on a 
specific version of Silverlight (as there were changes between Silverlight 1.1 
to Silverlight 2 b1/b2).

I currently own the Silverlight install experience, so if you have any feedback 
or wish lists etc around this please little-r me as I'm awaiting your calls! :)

Scott.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Wednesday, 16 July 2008 9:41 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] SL critical update KB955011

Thanks all,

Extra stability in FF3 is good. :)
Beta 2 was an improvement, before that came out I also couldn't use it... had 
the crash on close tab problem.

I still occasionally get sites that tell me I don't have SL installed but if I 
go to the same URL in IE it works fine. I've not checked this since installing 
the patch, I'd be hard pressed remembering a site that had the issue but I'll 
keep an eye out for it.

cheers,
Stephen
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Rodrigo Ratan <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Critical Update for Microsoft Silverlight 2 (KB955011)

Download size: 6,4 MB

Update type: Important

This update for Microsoft Silverlight 2 includes stability, media streaming, 
and auto-update improvements as well as improved support for Firefox 3.

More information:
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=122011

Help and Support:
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=121951
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:22 PM, Stephen Price <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
Anyone know what this Critical update for Silverlight is all about? I've 
noticed it wants to install it via Windows Update but I can't find any info 
about what it is/does.

Just curious. :)

cheers,
Stephen
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Ireland number 256796.
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number 342235.
Registered office 70 Sir John Rogerson's Quay, Dublin 2, Ireland

RE: [OzSilverlight] SL critical update KB955011

[Scott Barnes]

Sights = Sites.. sorry, been a long week..

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, 16 July 2008 10:31 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] SL critical update KB955011

It's for FF3 mostly. If you have any sights that have "Get Silverlight" issues 
around versioning, please little-r me as it shouldn't happen and those that 
have that in place are generally sites that have an absolute need to run on a 
specific version of Silverlight (as there were changes between Silverlight 1.1 
to Silverlight 2 b1/b2).

I currently own the Silverlight install experience, so if you have any feedback 
or wish lists etc around this please little-r me as I'm awaiting your calls! :)

Scott.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Wednesday, 16 July 2008 9:41 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] SL critical update KB955011

Thanks all,

Extra stability in FF3 is good. :)
Beta 2 was an improvement, before that came out I also couldn't use it... had 
the crash on close tab problem.

I still occasionally get sites that tell me I don't have SL installed but if I 
go to the same URL in IE it works fine. I've not checked this since installing 
the patch, I'd be hard pressed remembering a site that had the issue but I'll 
keep an eye out for it.

cheers,
Stephen
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Rodrigo Ratan <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Critical Update for Microsoft Silverlight 2 (KB955011)

Download size: 6,4 MB

Update type: Important

This update for Microsoft Silverlight 2 includes stability, media streaming, 
and auto-update improvements as well as improved support for Firefox 3.

More information:
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=122011

Help and Support:
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=121951
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:22 PM, Stephen Price <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
Anyone know what this Critical update for Silverlight is all about? I've 
noticed it wants to install it via Windows Update but I can't find any info 
about what it is/does.

Just curious. :)

cheers,
Stephen
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RE: [OzSilverlight] SL critical update KB955011

[Scott Barnes]

It's for FF3 mostly. If you have any sights that have "Get Silverlight" issues 
around versioning, please little-r me as it shouldn't happen and those that 
have that in place are generally sites that have an absolute need to run on a 
specific version of Silverlight (as there were changes between Silverlight 1.1 
to Silverlight 2 b1/b2).

I currently own the Silverlight install experience, so if you have any feedback 
or wish lists etc around this please little-r me as I'm awaiting your calls! :)

Scott.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Wednesday, 16 July 2008 9:41 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] SL critical update KB955011

Thanks all,

Extra stability in FF3 is good. :)
Beta 2 was an improvement, before that came out I also couldn't use it... had 
the crash on close tab problem.

I still occasionally get sites that tell me I don't have SL installed but if I 
go to the same URL in IE it works fine. I've not checked this since installing 
the patch, I'd be hard pressed remembering a site that had the issue but I'll 
keep an eye out for it.

cheers,
Stephen
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Rodrigo Ratan <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> wrote:

Critical Update for Microsoft Silverlight 2 (KB955011)

Download size: 6,4 MB

Update type: Important

This update for Microsoft Silverlight 2 includes stability, media streaming, 
and auto-update improvements as well as improved support for Firefox 3.

More information:
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=122011

Help and Support:
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=121951

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:22 PM, Stephen Price <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> wrote:
Anyone know what this Critical update for Silverlight is all about? I've 
noticed it wants to install it via Windows Update but I can't find any info 
about what it is/does.

Just curious. :)

cheers,
Stephen
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RE: [OzSilverlight] Make the web deep zoomable?

[Scott Barnes]

I bought my iPhone yesterday and will see it 4 days. I would prefer to see some 
of your Silverlight solutions on the iPhone and all other devices and so i'll 
leave it that.

They've offered some interesting data packages but pale in comparison to the 
US. As last I looked you can spend upwards of $600 for 5gb for example and here 
with AT&T I spend a total of $45USD for unlimited. That being said, 3g in 
Australia has much better coverage than the US and the mobile market is much 
larger and competitive here.

It will be interesting how Apple sustain this buzz post early adopters and how 
the average household digests the new data plans + device costs. I can see the 
iPod Touch take a downward spiral in terms of sales and the iPhone increases. 
As why would you own both? unless the telcos pricing models is to steap it will 
be interesting none the less.

Scott.



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, 12 July 2008 4:41 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Make the web deep zoomable?

Silverlight (and flash) work fine in Safari on the PC (and assuming Mac too). 
So how come the iPhone doesn't run Flash and Silverlight apps? Is it Apple that 
need to implement an update for iPhone to allow them to run? Anyone know how 
far off that might be?

I've seen some apps that behave differently on iphone (such as Google mail) on 
iphone (actually iPod touch, I'm still waiting for my iPhone). Wondering how 
they go about doing that. Given how popular it is, it's going to be something 
you should look at if you have online apps. It's annoying how so many web sites 
look like crap on a mobile device, I'm hoping that the arrival of the iPhone is 
a catalyst for that to change and we get a flow on to other mobile devices as 
well. It's had that effect with mobile data rates, finally the Telcos are 
offering capped voice plans that include data. (scummy data, but some is better 
than none) It's annoying that it's taken them so long. Why did it take the 
release of the iphone for them to introduce that?

Stephen

On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 12:57 PM, .net noobie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I wondered becuase I looked at the developer page...
but the list of features seemed to indicate local network stuff.

was happy to see there is a SDK for it, so what tools do you need to make a 
iPhone app..?

so how does the browser handle a full size web page, generally the web on a 
small screen has not been such a great experiance in my view
and there are not a large amount of pages developed for mobile devices

but still, seems to be a lot of hype over a user interface...


On 7/12/08, Jordan Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Heheh, not on me :)



Regards,

Jordan Knight
Readify - Senior Developer

Suite 206 Nolan Tower | 29 Rakaia Way | Docklands | VIC 3008 | Australia
M: +61 403 532 404 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | W: 
www.readify.net



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On 
Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Saturday, 12 July 2008 8:27 AM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Make the web deep zoomable?





On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 8:18 AM, Jordan Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Can anybody tell me how it goes on iPhone 2.0?

Do you have a URL for something for me to test?


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On 
Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Saturday, 12 July 2008 7:56 AM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Make the web deep zoomable?



On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 7:19 AM, .net noobie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

iPhones a the biggest load of wank on the market,

I actually saw a guy on TV say "You can replace your laptop with a iPhone"

bloody idiot...

nice interface, that's about it, i don't think it really has as much 
functionality and my old JASJAM, more power and memory, but properly cannot 
really do 10% the stuff..

There is no way you could have used one to arrive at that conclusion.

The Killer Feature(tm) for the device is the browser on it - it is absolutely 
on par with a desktop browser (except no flash, sl, or java) (so much so that 
it is pretty annoying when sites like www.news.com.au 
launch a cut down 'iphone optimised' version of their site).

This jury is still out on the on screen keyboard. It is definitely 1000 times 
better than my imate Jamin' - but I am not sure if it is as good as the 
blackjack.

That said, I have owned every generation of WIndows Mobile device since the 
Compaq Nino and this thing is absolutely the "5 years ahead of anything else" 
that Apple claim.

--
David Connors ([EMAIL PROTECTED]<

RE: [OzSilverlight] Make the web deep zoomable?

[Scott Barnes]

Question should be how does Safari react to asp.net ajax..

Device is same codebase



From: Jordan Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 3:23 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com 
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Make the web deep zoomable?

How does ASP.NET AJAX go on the new device?

Version one of the software worked really nice, but...

“My initial tests of ASP.NET AJAX found that it worked perfectly for the 
iPhone, allowing me to create cutting edge Web 2.0 applications.  However, when 
I installed Apple's first update for the iPhone - containing security updates 
for the embedded Safari browser - the ASP.NET AJAX UpdatePanel stopped working. 
 This frustrating development broke much of the code I'd written.  I hope 
Microsoft or Apple will fix this problem soon.  I've notified Microsoft of the 
problem and they are currently looking into it.”

(http://dotnetslackers.com/articles/aspnet/DevelopingForTheiPhone.aspx)

Can anybody tell me how it goes on iPhone 2.0?
Regards,
Jordan Knight
Readify - Senior Developer
Suite 206 Nolan Tower | 29 Rakaia Way | Docklands | VIC 3008 | Australia
M: +61 403 532 404 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | W: 
www.readify.net

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Saturday, 12 July 2008 7:56 AM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Make the web deep zoomable?

On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 7:19 AM, .net noobie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
iPhones a the biggest load of wank on the market,

I actually saw a guy on TV say "You can replace your laptop with a iPhone"

bloody idiot...

nice interface, that's about it, i don't think it really has as much 
functionality and my old JASJAM, more power and memory, but properly cannot 
really do 10% the stuff..

There is no way you could have used one to arrive at that conclusion.

The Killer Feature(tm) for the device is the browser on it - it is absolutely 
on par with a desktop browser (except no flash, sl, or java) (so much so that 
it is pretty annoying when sites like www.news.com.au 
launch a cut down 'iphone optimised' version of their site).

This jury is still out on the on screen keyboard. It is definitely 1000 times 
better than my imate Jamin' - but I am not sure if it is as good as the 
blackjack.

That said, I have owned every generation of WIndows Mobile device since the 
Compaq Nino and this thing is absolutely the "5 years ahead of anything else" 
that Apple claim.

--
David Connors ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Software Engineer
Codify Pty Ltd - www.codify.com
Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417 189 
363
Address Info: http://www.codify.com/AboutUs/ContactDetails 
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 +y�b)

RE: [OzSilverlight] Make the web deep zoomable?

[Scott Barnes]

On the fence myself. I can see value in the phone and i can see disadvantages 
especially back home in Australia as the data plans are aggressive in price.

That being said i do alot of emails via my BlackJack II so having a qwerty 
keyboard that has physical buttons can play a role going forward for me.. Need 
to roadtest the iphone some more before i pass final judgement.

That need to see how the msft exchange looks like on the iphone as i live on my 
mobiles calendar and email.


From: .net noobie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 2:19 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com 
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Make the web deep zoomable?

iPhones a the biggest load of wank on the market,

I actually saw a guy on TV say "You can replace your laptop with a iPhone"

bloody idiot...

nice interface, that's about it, i don't think it really has as much 
functionality and my old JASJAM, more power and memory, but properly cannot 
really do 10% the stuff..

On 7/11/08, Rodrigo Ratan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I prefer an HTC Touch Diamond ;)


On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 8:30 AM, Stephen Price <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
how about an iphone as a prize?

Sorry... couldn't resist. :)


On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 9:59 AM, Shane Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Awesome idea John. I'm sure we could help with some prizes. (Although I'm all 
out of Gen 1 Zunes I'm afraid...) Shanemo



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On 
Behalf Of John OBrien
Sent: Monday, 7 July 2008 11:33 AM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Make the web deep zoomable?



Jose Fajardo started this for me at remix Australia with his concept of a how a 
news site could look if they used Deep Zoom for their images.

Recently I was pretty disappointed by a leading used car site offering 175px 
images of my car so had a play with a "what if they used deep zoom" idea:

Blog post:

http://www.soulsolutions.com.au/Blog/tabid/73/EntryID/482/Default.aspx

Sample:

http://deepzoom.soulclients.com/drive/



Anyway got me thinking, wouldn't it be cool to have a site and/or competition 
where people could mock up their favourite site, but make it use deep zoom?



What do you think? Would you submit one if I put a site up to host them with a 
little tutorial on how to do and added voting, comments etc?



John.



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--
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This Framework is not Big Enough for the both of us... 
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[OzSilverlight] In case you don't understand the mechanics of VisualState Manager in Silverlight.

[Scott Barnes]

I just blogged a bit of breakdown of VisualStateManager and how it can be used 
for animation in Silverlight. I'm also going to post an example code around how 
VSM + Animation + Line of Business Applications can be a nice marriage. As it 
help short cut a lot of user interaction hurdles - namely "How do I reverse an 
animation if a user triggers an event half way"

http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/2008/06/29/understanding-how-visualstate-manager-s-durations-work-in-silverlight-expression-blend.aspx


--
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(Rich Platform Product Manager)
Microsoft Corp.<http://www.microsoft.com/> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Mobile: 425-802-9503 (New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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RE: [OzSilverlight] DeepZoom Obama.

[Scott Barnes]

Yeah. I guess when you 're sending Data over the pipe like this is doing you 
need to factor in latency. I've got some ideas on how to fix this in future 
versions of DZ though.

Stay tuned.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John OBrien
Sent: Monday, 30 June 2008 4:58 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] DeepZoom Obama.

Just give it some time to load, very high res images hidden in there and it 
seems to be loading the images in the worst possible order (the main one last).
I know Donavon is using Silverlight Streaming to host it.
I think it is really  well done. Zoom into the eyes.
John.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Campbell, Duncan 
(SYD-MWG)
Sent: Tuesday, 1 July 2008 9:40 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] DeepZoom Obama.

Not working for me (newest sl installed, IE7) - getting ugly/blurry image - I 
can zoom in and out of it, but i've no idea what it is!

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Tuesday, 1 July 2008 9:31 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] DeepZoom Obama.

Now this is tricky and amazing.

http://www.deepzoomobama.com/

Blog post describing the "how".
http://blog.donavon.com/2008/06/deep-zoom-obama.html


--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Platform Product Manager)
Microsoft Corp.<http://www.microsoft.com/> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Mobile: 425-802-9503 (New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Unless you


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[OzSilverlight] DeepZoom Obama.

[Scott Barnes]

Now this is tricky and amazing.

http://www.deepzoomobama.com/

Blog post describing the "how".
http://blog.donavon.com/2008/06/deep-zoom-obama.html


--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Platform Product Manager)
Microsoft Corp.<http://www.microsoft.com/> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Mobile: 425-802-9503 (New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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RE: [OzSilverlight] RE: Deep Zoom Problems

[Scott Barnes]

Exactly :) .. I can trick you into believing that I have a billion rows of data 
in one grid. How? Well I shrink the thumbnail and tell you there are billion 
rows of data in this datagrid. Then when you move the thumbnail, I scroll based 
on a mathmetical formula that has a sole purpose of giving you the illusion you 
are scrolling a billion rows of data.. when in fact you're basically updating 
20 rows at a time but seeing 10 visually.

Point is, the eye and brain will relax when there aren't any clues that it's 
being tricked



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:38 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] RE: Deep Zoom Problems

A. As far as you want.

Given that the way Deep Zoom works is by only downloading the images that are 
needed you should be able to zoom in for as many images as you need. How about 
nesting Deep Zoom controls? Zoom into some kind of limit (As John said, could 
be a primitive type limit) and then put a new instance of a Deep Zoom control 
right there at your maximum zoom and start all over again, on into Infinity!

cheers,
Stephen
On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Q. How far do you want to zoom?



Also - What limitations are you facing with Deep Zoom? and how do you want us 
to fix them should they exist?



Have you all seen: http://projectsilverlight.blogspot.com/ ?



p.s

Meet with the Deep Zoom folks today at their HQ (sweet office in down town 
Seattle), there is a lot to be said for this technology, very exciting times 
ahead.





--

Scott Barnes
(Rich Platform Product Manager)

Microsoft Corp.<http://www.microsoft.com/> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Mobile: + 1 (425) 802-9503 (New!)

Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail







From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On 
Behalf Of Ola Karlsson
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 8:04 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] RE: Deep Zoom Problems



Hi Alex,



Not sure if this is related to the issue you're having, but I was listening to 
a DotNetRocks show http://www.dotnetrocks.com/default.aspx?showNum=348 a while 
back where they were talking Deep zoom.  And it seems there are some 
limitations on how far you can zoom, a quick Google and I also found a post on 
the Expressions team's blog mentioning  some limitations 
http://blogs.msdn.com/expression/archive/2008/06/07/what-s-new-in-deep-zoom-composer.aspx#8602273



Good luck,

Ola

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On 
Behalf Of Alex Knight
Sent: Thursday, 26 June 2008 10:44 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Deep Zoom Problems



Hi Everyone,

I have been playing around with deep zoom a little and have run into an issue 
with it only allowing me to zoom so far.

I have written a quick blog about it: 
http://agkdesign.wordpress.com/2008/06/26/deep-zoom-white-screen-of-zoom-doom/

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Alex Knight



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RE: [OzSilverlight] RE: Deep Zoom Problems

[Scott Barnes]

Is it more about precision or is it more to do transitioning between different 
pieces of the UX?

I'll ask some folks internally on the max thresholds as to be openly honest 
I've never thought to ask.. I'm a deep zoom lemming and I'll fight any whom 
disapprove! :) hehe

As for my character, an artist never tells the how, just the why :) .. you have 
to stand in line as I owe Michael Kordahi a DelicateGenius character :) but 
yeah, I'll add you to my todo list :)



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John OBrien
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 9:53 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] RE: Deep Zoom Problems

A. All the way in

I think the limitations hit to date are with the composer tool not the 
multiscaleimage control itself. For the example the VE stuff we are doing is 
the essentially a 134,217,728 x 134,217,728 px image (hence my 18 petapixel 
talk). It works great.
http://deepzoom.soulclients.com/ve/
But there is always some limitation using 32 bit numbers or floating point 
precision etc. Anyway know what it actually is? Max number of subimages, max 
size for an image, max zoom?

Sort of off topic - what program did you make your funky Silverlight character 
in Scott? I think Bronwen and my meegoes need some pimping ;)

John.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Thursday, 26 June 2008 2:00 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] RE: Deep Zoom Problems

Q. How far do you want to zoom?

Also - What limitations are you facing with Deep Zoom? and how do you want us 
to fix them should they exist?

Have you all seen: http://projectsilverlight.blogspot.com/ ?

p.s
Meet with the Deep Zoom folks today at their HQ (sweet office in down town 
Seattle), there is a lot to be said for this technology, very exciting times 
ahead.


--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Platform Product Manager)
Microsoft Corp.<http://www.microsoft.com/> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Mobile: + 1 (425) 802-9503 (New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ola Karlsson
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 8:04 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] RE: Deep Zoom Problems

Hi Alex,

Not sure if this is related to the issue you're having, but I was listening to 
a DotNetRocks show http://www.dotnetrocks.com/default.aspx?showNum=348 a while 
back where they were talking Deep zoom.  And it seems there are some 
limitations on how far you can zoom, a quick Google and I also found a post on 
the Expressions team's blog mentioning  some limitations 
http://blogs.msdn.com/expression/archive/2008/06/07/what-s-new-in-deep-zoom-composer.aspx#8602273

Good luck,
Ola
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alex Knight
Sent: Thursday, 26 June 2008 10:44 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Deep Zoom Problems

Hi Everyone,
I have been playing around with deep zoom a little and have run into an issue 
with it only allowing me to zoom so far.
I have written a quick blog about it: 
http://agkdesign.wordpress.com/2008/06/26/deep-zoom-white-screen-of-zoom-doom/
Any ideas?
Thanks!
Alex Knight

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RE: [OzSilverlight] RE: Deep Zoom Problems

[Scott Barnes]

Yeah sorry I should of noted, this isn't b2 compliant but the code is still 
useable. In that it provides direction to head in the right places should you 
need it.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Campbell, Duncan 
(SYD-MWG)
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 9:11 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] RE: Deep Zoom Problems

>>Have you all seen: http://projectsilverlight.blogspot.com/ ?

"The site that you visited was built for an earlier, beta version of
Silverlight - not the current one. Please contact the site owner to let
them know that they must upgrade to the latest release of Silverlight 2.
Let us know if the site is not updated shortly so we can try to assist
in upgrading the site to the latest Silverlight technology."

:-(
This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. 
Unless you
are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive this message for the 
intended
recipient), you may not use, copy, disseminate or disclose to anyone the 
message or
any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in 
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please advise the sender by reply e-mail, and delete the message. Thank you.



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[OzSilverlight] RE: Deep Zoom Problems

[Scott Barnes]

Q. How far do you want to zoom?

Also - What limitations are you facing with Deep Zoom? and how do you want us 
to fix them should they exist?

Have you all seen: http://projectsilverlight.blogspot.com/ ?

p.s
Meet with the Deep Zoom folks today at their HQ (sweet office in down town 
Seattle), there is a lot to be said for this technology, very exciting times 
ahead.


--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Platform Product Manager)
Microsoft Corp.<http://www.microsoft.com/> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Mobile: + 1 (425) 802-9503 (New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ola Karlsson
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 8:04 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] RE: Deep Zoom Problems

Hi Alex,

Not sure if this is related to the issue you're having, but I was listening to 
a DotNetRocks show http://www.dotnetrocks.com/default.aspx?showNum=348 a while 
back where they were talking Deep zoom.  And it seems there are some 
limitations on how far you can zoom, a quick Google and I also found a post on 
the Expressions team's blog mentioning  some limitations 
http://blogs.msdn.com/expression/archive/2008/06/07/what-s-new-in-deep-zoom-composer.aspx#8602273

Good luck,
Ola
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alex Knight
Sent: Thursday, 26 June 2008 10:44 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Deep Zoom Problems

Hi Everyone,
I have been playing around with deep zoom a little and have run into an issue 
with it only allowing me to zoom so far.
I have written a quick blog about it: 
http://agkdesign.wordpress.com/2008/06/26/deep-zoom-white-screen-of-zoom-doom/
Any ideas?
Thanks!
Alex Knight

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[OzSilverlight] RE: a couple of new sl sites

[Scott Barnes]

Awesome! :) - I was even tempted to pull out the US cliché - '...I'm super 
excited...' hehe

How was the overall experience in developing/designing Silverlight?

If you want to give me some feedback on what we did wrong / right, I'm always 
keen to see your email in my inbox! :)


--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Platform Product Manager)
Microsoft Corp.<http://www.microsoft.com/> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Mobile: 425-802-9503 (New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Campbell, Duncan 
(SYD-MWG)
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 9:55 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] a couple of new sl sites

Hey folks,

I thought i'd share a couple of Silverlight (1) sites we've recently released 
for Microsoft:

http://www.microsoft.com/australia/windows/products/windowsvista/icandothat/default.aspx

http://www.microsoft.com.au/charity/default.aspx

Cheers,

Duncan Campbell | Development Team Lead

McCann Worldgroup Sydney | 166 William Street, Woolloomooloo, NSW 2011, 
Australia
T: +61 (0)2 9994 4362 | M: +61 (0)403 906 271 | E: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail



This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. 
Unless you


are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive this message for the 
intended


recipient), you may not use, copy, disseminate or disclose to anyone the 
message or


any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in 
error,


please advise the sender by reply e-mail, and delete the message. Thank you.


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RE: [OzSilverlight] Deep Zoom with Virtual Earth Part2

[Scott Barnes]

It's about time Stephen, we were going to organize a SLI. No not the video card 
kind, but Silverlight Intervention.

You should take the cartoons in your deep zoom demo and flip it a bit. In that 
put the next cartoon in secret places of each cartoon (like a sticker on the 
back of laptop)... make it puzzle and more fun experience..!


--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Platform Product Manager)
Microsoft Corp.<http://www.microsoft.com/> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Mobile: 425-802-9503 (New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail

Scott.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 12:45 AM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Deep Zoom with Virtual Earth Part2

Maybe that's what people actually mean when they talk about SLA's. Silverlight 
Anonymous...?

Hi my name is Stephen, and I'm a Silverlightaholic. It's been three weeks now 
since I've debugged a Silverlight application... 
I've put my cartoons into a deepzoom app (see 
http://www.lythixdesigns.com/cartoongallery/index.html, as well as animated the 
eyes on a XAML Quokka character. http://lythixdesigns.com/blog/?p=7)
I'm now thinking of ways to give my Quokka states using Virtual State Manager.

Looks like I'm going to have to go back into rehab... :)
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 5:37 PM, Jonas Follesø <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>> wrote:
Well, telling by the increasing number of SL2 related post cumming from the 
"west side", I guess you're not far from needing some of it your self ;)

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Stephen Price <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>> wrote:
You guys need this...  http://on10.net/blogs/tina/Silverlight-Rehab/

;)
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 9:54 AM, John OBrien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Jonas,

There are about 6 different Virtual Earth Silverlight projects that I have 
found. None of them used Deep Zoom, instead basing their code on that of Peter 
Blois (expression team?):

http://blois.us/blog/labels/Virtual%20Earth.html

Only with Beta2 did you get the ability to do this, inheriting from 
MultiScaleTileSource is new.

John.



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On 
Behalf Of Jonas Follesø
Sent: Wednesday, 11 June 2008 11:16 AM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com>
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Deep Zoom with Virtual Earth Part2



John,

That is just A.W.E.S.O.M.E! Getting Silverlight talking directly to Virtual 
Earth was a key piece to get going - And the current POC runs really smoothly.

Do you know if this is the same approach used on 
http://silverlight.idvsolutions.com/ (from the Silverlight Showcase gallery)?

It's not updated to Beta 2 so you need a Beta 1 machine to run it. They say 
it's a 100% silverlight Virtual Earth app - But no code available. Haven't 
bothered downloading the XAP and checking out what they're doing. They have a 
pretty slick zoom level control that would be nice to mimick.


Cheers,
Jonas :)





On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 11:05 AM, John OBrien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Hey guys, thanks to Shaun Becker I now have Silverlight talking directly to the 
Virtual Earth tiles. Check out live example:

http://deepzoom.soulclients.com/VE/

The plan is to create a codeplex project, I have a tonne of knowledge around 
Virtual Earth to contribute but I'm looking for others to help and think 
outside the square.

What is super cool is the XAP file is only 7.7KB so far.

If you're interested give me a yell. Looking for good architecture, coding up 
sections and importantly design and UX skills for controls, panels, pop-ups and 
pins.

John.

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RE: [OzSilverlight] Deep Zoom with Virtual Earth Part2

[Scott Barnes]

As we say here at Microsoft  whenever someone says the word "Deep Zoom"..

GO DPER..

Ok, John's raised the bar, whom can beat him.. come on.. you know you can 
totally beat John. Winner gets a personal email from Mike in Audit, praising 
his/her efforts.. now how can anyone top that for a prize.

Microsoft. We care.


--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Platform Product Manager)
Microsoft Corp.<http://www.microsoft.com/> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Mobile: 425-802-9503 (New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 8:41 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Deep Zoom with Virtual Earth Part2

You guys need this...  http://on10.net/blogs/tina/Silverlight-Rehab/

;)
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 9:54 AM, John OBrien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Jonas,

There are about 6 different Virtual Earth Silverlight projects that I have 
found. None of them used Deep Zoom, instead basing their code on that of Peter 
Blois (expression team?):

http://blois.us/blog/labels/Virtual%20Earth.html

Only with Beta2 did you get the ability to do this, inheriting from 
MultiScaleTileSource is new.

John.



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On 
Behalf Of Jonas Follesø
Sent: Wednesday, 11 June 2008 11:16 AM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com>
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Deep Zoom with Virtual Earth Part2



John,

That is just A.W.E.S.O.M.E! Getting Silverlight talking directly to Virtual 
Earth was a key piece to get going - And the current POC runs really smoothly.

Do you know if this is the same approach used on 
http://silverlight.idvsolutions.com/ (from the Silverlight Showcase gallery)?

It's not updated to Beta 2 so you need a Beta 1 machine to run it. They say 
it's a 100% silverlight Virtual Earth app - But no code available. Haven't 
bothered downloading the XAP and checking out what they're doing. They have a 
pretty slick zoom level control that would be nice to mimick.


Cheers,
Jonas :)





On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 11:05 AM, John OBrien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Hey guys, thanks to Shaun Becker I now have Silverlight talking directly to the 
Virtual Earth tiles. Check out live example:

http://deepzoom.soulclients.com/VE/

The plan is to create a codeplex project, I have a tonne of knowledge around 
Virtual Earth to contribute but I'm looking for others to help and think 
outside the square.

What is super cool is the XAP file is only 7.7KB so far.

If you're interested give me a yell. Looking for good architecture, coding up 
sections and importantly design and UX skills for controls, panels, pop-ups and 
pins.

John.

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RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 2 Beta 2 coming this week

[Scott Barnes]

The team have done a good job with this release.. hard workers, that they are! 
:) ...

*exciting*...


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonas Follesø
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 4:25 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 2 Beta 2 coming this week

Finally announced :)

So this week/next week will be all about updating my blog posts and work code 
to Beta 2.

There will deff. be lots of interesting Silverlight 2 B2 as well as Blend 2.5 
CTP announcements this week :) yay

On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 6:41 AM, Jordan Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Came across this in my RSS scans this morning:

http://blogs.msdn.com/silverlight_sdk/archive/2008/06/03/silverlight-2-beta-2-releasing-soon.aspx


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[OzSilverlight] RE: Jose's DeepZoom demo from REMIX08

[Scott Barnes]

If anyone on the list is also doing anything with Deep Zoom, the Product Team 
would love to hear from you. Please Little-r me if you're keen to share...

Jose, as always, you rock!...

---
Scott Barnes
Product Manager
Microsoft.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ola Karlsson
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 1:41 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] RE: Jose's DeepZoom demo from REMIX08

uuh, spooky, I actually just watched that on dg.tv like 15 min ago and next 
thing I noticed your post on the list ;)

Good stuff thanks for putting it togheter, really nice for us who couldn't make 
it to Remix.

Cheers,
Ola


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Kordahi [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, 30 May 2008 4:15 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Jose's DeepZoom demo from REMIX08

I sat down with Jose Fajardo yesterday and we captured his DeepZoom bits from 
REMIX.

If  you missed it at REMIX or even if you just want to relive the magic, this 
is a must see.

-mk
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[OzSilverlight] RE: abc REMIX demo

[Scott Barnes]

So bummed I never got to see Oz REMIX... :( well done to ABC folks btw!


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shane Morris
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 9:44 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] RE: abc REMIX demo

Hi Duncan, you can see a part of it live today (video previews at the ABC 
shop). Eg. http://shop.abc.net.au/browse/product.asp?productid=752400. The 
shopping cart and download manager are coming. Shanemo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Campbell, Duncan 
(SYD-MWG)
Sent: Thursday, 22 May 2008 2:36 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] abc REMIX demo

Quick question for Scott: Do you know if the cool abc SL1 demo we were shown at 
REMIX is available anywhere for public consumption? (I understood the site had 
not yet launched, but was hoping for the ability to have a play with myself).

Cheers.


Duncan Campbell | Development Team Lead

McCann Worldgroup Sydney | 166 William Street, Woolloomooloo, NSW 2011, 
Australia
T: +61 (0)2 9994 4362 | M: +61 (0)403 906 271 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail
This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. 
Unless you
are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive this message for the 
intended
recipient), you may not use, copy, disseminate or disclose to anyone the 
message or
any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in 
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please advise the sender by reply e-mail, and delete the message. Thank you.



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;4�(!��&��r��y���b�X��ǧu���Ơy-��b��"�r��y�-��.n7���0z��o)��W�i�^rfjv�y���
 +y�b)

RE: [OzSilverlight] www.microsoft.com/silverlight/resources/install.aspx is not a well page...

[Scott Barnes]

Hmmm.. works for me, but that being said my old boss once said to me after 
saying those exact words

"..Well then, why don't we just redirect the entire internet to use your 
machine and call it a bug free problem then?"

Forwarded onto the appropriate people and your feedback is loved, respected and 
welcomed and we will now send you a big hug courtesy of the "Have you hugged a 
developer" department here at Redmond.

As for t-shirts? Sure... Love t-shirts, even the competitors as they make great 
reminders that we can always do better ;) hehe.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Beattie
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 5:03 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] www.microsoft.com/silverlight/resources/install.aspx 
is not a well page...

rats.

freshly built machine, I opened up VS2005, saw a reminder on the start
page in it that I hadn't installed Silverlight on it yet...

click on the "get silverlight" link... javascript syntax errors - lines 83 & 84




tried it in IE6... same problem, although it's fine in FF

I can still download it (although the errors get in the way in VS2005)
but having JS errors like this can be a bit distracting...










HI Scott, settled in yet?
got enough AIR shirts for your team? I can send you some more if you need...


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RE: [OzSilverlight] RE: Anyone in Brisbane?

[Scott Barnes]

FYI: I'm having a bit of a going away drinks but more Silverlight minded folks 
are welcome ;) Feel free to load me up with wishlists and annoyances / past 
grievances that Microsoft has and I'll be sure to listen intently, whilst 
swaying & holding a beer or 10.. :)

When: 6:00PM this Friday (9th May)
Where: Jade Budda |1 Eagle Street | Eagle Street Pier (where City Rowers used 
to be)
For a map refer to http://jadebuddha.com.au/images/map.gif

Brisbanite unite! :) heheh

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of .net noobie
Sent: Wednesday, 7 May 2008 3:37 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] RE: Anyone in Brisbane?

I would even come up from the gold coast if a could at the time you meet, be 
quite and listen and learn and just coffee as I would have to drive

On 5/7/08, Stephen Price <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
I think we should all chip in and buy one of those "FRAGILE - Handle with care" 
stickers to stick on your crate. :)

Hmm... theres a cartoon in that.

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 7:25 AM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>> wrote:

I live in Brisbane - although I ship out to Seattle after the 13th May, more 
than happy to cry in a beer or two over Silverlight :) hehe.





---

Scott Barnes
(Product Manager)

Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Twitter: 
twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"...The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man 
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress 
depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On 
Behalf Of Vincent Vergonjeanne
Sent: Wednesday, 7 May 2008 1:46 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Anyone in Brisbane?



Hey Guys,



Coming all the way from Ireland to visit a friend in Brisbane. I was wondering 
if any of you actually live there?

If yes, would you like to meet and have a good beer while exchanging about our 
personal Silverlight projects?



Cheers!

Vincent.





About Microsoft Ireland: 
www.microsoft.com/ireland<http://www.microsoft.com/ireland>
Microsoft Ireland Operations Limited. A company incorporated and registered in 
Ireland number 256796.
Microsoft Ireland Research. A company incorporated and registered in Ireland 
number 342235.
Registered office 70 Sir John Rogerson's Quay, Dublin 2, Ireland

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--
.net noobie(tm)

I have made a blog, but remember I am just a noobie
http://dotnetnoobie.spaces.live.com/

Now on the Gold Coast, need a worker, please contact me, thank you. 
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[OzSilverlight] RE: Anyone in Brisbane?

[Scott Barnes]

I live in Brisbane - although I ship out to Seattle after the 13th May, more 
than happy to cry in a beer or two over Silverlight :) hehe.


---
Scott Barnes
(Product Manager)
Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Twitter: 
twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"...The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man 
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress 
depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vincent 
Vergonjeanne
Sent: Wednesday, 7 May 2008 1:46 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Anyone in Brisbane?


Hey Guys,



Coming all the way from Ireland to visit a friend in Brisbane. I was wondering 
if any of you actually live there?

If yes, would you like to meet and have a good beer while exchanging about our 
personal Silverlight projects?



Cheers!

Vincent.


About Microsoft Ireland: www.microsoft.com/ireland
Microsoft Ireland Operations Limited. A company incorporated and registered in 
Ireland number 256796.
Microsoft Ireland Research. A company incorporated and registered in Ireland 
number 342235.
Registered office 70 Sir John Rogerson's Quay, Dublin 2, Ireland
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RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight client

[Scott Barnes]

Correct, Silverlight 2 will be backwards complaint with Silverlight 1.0 
(keeping in mind Silverlight 1.1 will have varying experiences and most likely 
won't be compliant). At the moment, Kordsey has DG.TV checking for SL 1.0 (good 
citizen) and so the script is simply not updating to Silverlight 2 or above. In 
it's mind it's "IF != 1.0 GO GET IT" :)





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 1:42 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight client

Am I correct in thinking that if I have the Silverlight 2.0 client installed 
that it should also handle Silverlight 1.0 sites?

I'm getting the Install gadget showing up on DG.Tv 
(http://delicategeniusblog.com/?cat=24) and when I click it, it downloads the 
Silverlight 1.0 install exe. That scares me, I've had bad experiences with 
mixing the two clients, it never used to know what version was what. Has that 
been sorted out? Should I just throw caution to the wind and install it?

cheers,
Stephen
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RE: [OzSilverlight] Remix Silverlight Music Video Clip Competition

[Scott Barnes]

42.. all answers are 42...

It would be a very hard number to settle on, given the demographic around this 
space is quite fluid.  Defining a "designer" is a hurdle unto itself for any  
company worldwide let alone pinning down their age group(s).


---
Scott Barnes
(Product Manager)
Microsoft Pty | Blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Twitter: 
twitter.com/mossyblog | MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

"...The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man 
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress 
depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David L. Campbell
Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 1:55 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Remix Silverlight Music Video Clip Competition

If that metric is available, I'd be interested to know how it was calculated :)


-Dave




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Matt Lynch
Sent: Mon 4/21/2008 10:06 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Remix Silverlight Music Video Clip Competition



Hi Shane,



Out of curiosity, what is the average age of a Silverlight developer?



Cheers,



Matt



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shane Morris
Sent: Tuesday, 22 April 2008 2:59 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Remix Silverlight Music Video Clip Competition



Hi all, we're running a little Silverlight competition leading up to Remix. 
Basically, take the music track we provide and hook it up to some Silverlight 
animations to make an animated music video clip thingy. 1st prize is that 
Silverlight skateboard. Check out 
http://blogs.msdn.com/shanemo/archive/2008/04/22/win-a-silverlight-skateboard-oz-remix-silverlight-video-clip-contest.aspx



Shanemo



Shane Morris  |  User Experience Evangelist  |  Microsoft Australia  |  +61 438 
818 888  |  [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   |  
blogs.msdn.com/shanemo <http://blogs.msdn.com/shanemo>



Signature_v4 <http://www.microsoft.com/australia/remix08/index.aspx>





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[OzSilverlight] 3DKit inside Silverlight

[Scott Barnes]

It's not true 3D but Mark is getting there with it just the same. Check this out

http://www.markdawson.org/kit3d/demos/photos/default.html

More information can be found here:
http://www.codeplex.com/Kit3D


---
Scott Barnes
(Product Manager - Silverlight/WPF)
Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Twitter: 
twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"...The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man 
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress 
depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw





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RE: OT: Silky vs Microsoft was RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

[Scott Barnes]

Swf or flv?


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of .net noobie
Sent: Friday, 4 April 2008 12:43 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: OT: Silky vs Microsoft was RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 
wishlist, now's your chance.

also the ability to play .swf files in the MediaElement would be really cool
On 4/4/08, .net noobie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
yes, but you cannot use it everywhere

On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 10:55 PM, Jonathan Parker <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

 *   the ability to use % values for heights and widths would be nice

You mean the star (*) syntax? It is supported by the Grid.

I.e.























Just divide by 100!



Some other things:



Virtical support for the grid splitter.

A wrap panel.

Incremental search in Blend and VS. Long overdue.

Horizontal split of Design/XAML in Blend to support dual-monitor setup.

Multimonitor support. i.e be able to expand a video control inside a SL app. to 
fit the monitor it is on not both monitors.



Jonathan



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On 
Behalf Of .net noobie
Sent: Thursday, 3 April 2008 1:15 PM

To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Silky vs Microsoft was RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 
wishlist, now's your chance.



 *   the ability to use % values for heights and widths would be nice
 *   proper UIElement Property Binding like in WPF & better support for it in 
Blend
 *   Support for the designer in VS2008 so so you can drop and drag controls on 
to the design surface
 *   alot better support for debugging, it is currently a potential nightmare 
if you have not played with silverlight for a while
 *   decent combobox control, and more controls in general, the current ones 
are pretty cool, but more is better :)
 *   ability to update the "VisualRoot" control would be good
 *   more and better documentation, with more and better code samples for both 
C# and VB plus xaml
 *   new section in the silverlight forums for silverlight 2.0, and 3.0 etc... 
currently it is a real drag to have to weed out all the silverlight 1.0 & 1.1 
posts when your looking for a Silverlight 2.0 Beta 1 answer
 *   more Video demos, and some more complex ones

But from playing with silverlight 2.0 Beta 1, it is a really cool product and 
getting better :)

On 4/3/08, Jonathan Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

My list:

1. Better clipboard support. I don't get why you can't just copy/paste
to/from the clipboard in SL when this is allowed with HTML/Javascript.
I would expect that SL would have a superset of the features of HTML and not
be more limited in security. I can understand that SL shouldn't be allowed
direct access
to the clipboard by default but that doesn't mean that you can't make a
textblock selectable and have a context menu so you can copy the text.

2. Right and middle mouse click events on controls and context menu control.

3. Rich text is a tricky one as when it comes to copy/paste to/from the
clipboard problems arise. If you can solve this x-platform that would be
something awsome.

4. Make unit testing easy to automate without a browser (if not already
possible).

5. I don't know exactly how the deployment of the SDK bits works at the
moment but it would be good if they only needed to be downloaded once for
each client
instead of once for each client per each app. that references them. This
would mean that the SDK would be kind of like an optional service pack.
Those who don't want the
big foot print can leave it out by not referencing it and those that need it
can reference it and it will be pulled from the MS server the first time
only.
The SDK could still be open source/codeplex and any changes that people want
to make they can reference as their own DLL instead of the one provided by
MS.
This would also allow more flexibility in the control of upgrades to the
SDK. You could choose to either wait for the MS upgrade or control the
upgrade yourself if you're using your own copy.

This would create more vesion issues than normal but SL devs. are smarter
than plain old .NET devs. right? ;) We can handle it!


> -----Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

> On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
> Sent: Tuesday, 1 April 2008 12:11 PM
> To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
> Subject: RE: OT: Silky vs Microsoft was RE: [OzSilve

[OzSilverlight] RE: silverlight and the mac

[Scott Barnes]

Not at this stage (Except Expression Media). Depending on customer demand this 
may change, but right now we are focused on getting it right on the Windows 
platform. We have released a new Microsoft Expression Professional Subscription 
(http://www.microsoft.com/expression/subscription/) which essentially covers 
off this conversation well. As in this subscription we make it more easier for 
folks on OSX to use the tools by providing not only Expression Studio, but also 
Windows Vista / Windows XP via Parallels all for $999.

Initially my thoughts were when I heard about this that surely this will go 
against the grain for the design community. Yet, the truth of the matter is 
whilst the folks whom will do the actual design (creative art, 
Photoshop/Illustrator etc) do so on Mac's, the majority of folks use PC when it 
comes to the animation / workflow (i.e. more folks use Flash IDE on PC than 
Mac), will this change in the future? Depends on how much market share Apple 
grow, what feedback our customers provide and what impacts would it make to our 
existing and future roadmaps (i.e. do you starve 85% of your customer base in 
order to make a potential 15% happy? - tough call).

That being said, talk to us about it if you foresee a strong need to have 
Expression Studio or equivalent put onto the Mac, as in the end the more 
customer evidence that can be found around the "why's" the easier it is to 
consider the options and take leaps of faith.

(I own and use iMac and Macbook Pro, so I eat what I preach here hehe - I don't 
use PC... ).

Scott Barnes.
Microsoft.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Campbell, Duncan 
(SYD-MR)
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 1:25 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] silverlight and the mac

Hey Scott,

Since Silverlight is x-platform, does Microsoft have any plans to release any 
development tools (something like Blend) for OS X ?

Cheers.

Duncan Campbell | Development Team Lead

MRMWORLDWIDE<http://www.mrmworldwide.com.au/> | 166 William Street, 
Woolloomooloo, NSW 2011, Australia
T: +61 (0)2 9994 4362 | M: +61 (0)403 906 271 | E: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail



This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. 
Unless you


are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive this message for the 
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please advise the sender by reply e-mail, and delete the message. Thank you.


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RE: OT: Silky vs Microsoft was RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

[Scott Barnes]

*sigh* :) This one's going to be a long one, so bare with me.

--

1) Silky is just vocal and yeah he may go against the grain, but in the end he 
is a customer of Microsoft and whether I agree or disagree with his views, I'll 
still give him the time/day to voice them.

As for the snowflake comment. We are in what, year 2? And already we are 
exceeding our critics expectations and more over, our competitors. The story 
with Silverlight will continue to get better as we aren't being reactive, we 
are keeping calm and pushing forward with what we think is a good bet. Our 
competitor has been reactive and are busy fighting fires on many fronts, and 
all the power to them. As from growing ground swell from 0 to where we are 
today, that has been an enormous effort undertaken and lists like this are a 
testament to this. The community and technology is growing, but we aren't just 
building a runtime - we are building a UX Platform all with interconnecting 
pieces (Tools, Services, Communities etc) and there is no "instant deploy" 
button (wish there was).

2) I need to pick my wording more carefully around you :) - It's not that "I 
don't get it" I disagree with it. There is millions upon millions of .NET 
friendly folks from around the world who are keen to explore/adopt the new 
Sivlerlight ecosystem as well as many thousands of folks whom are also keen to 
use both Flash and Silverlight. Right now, it's much easier conversation to 
work with the folks whom understand Microsoft tools & culture - or have 
invested in Microsoft technology already - than it is to worry about convincing 
the folks loyal to the Adobe brand that we have just as strong offering. 
Doesn't mean we won't spend our energy and time doing so, just that our 
existing customers are just as important as new customers. That's the 
simplicity of it all, grow but don't lose sight of the customers that gave you 
success in the first place.

The overarching message is that this is not a zero sum game, you can use BOTH. 
If you don't like Silverlight or you think based on your own investment, skill 
set and resources made available that Flex is a better solution - then choose 
Flex. I'd rather you pick a solution that best suits your skills, budget and 
long term plans then one that is a forced fit. As this is a short term win, 
massive long-term loss.

To put it in perspective, Barry you're in the top 1% of the Adobe developer 
pyramid, in that you have skills that have been nurtured and cultivated because 
you've spent time with the right people over the years (I know as I was also 
there alongside you). The trick isn't so much "why did company xyz choose 
Flex", I suspect you influenced the discussion or will influence it, but the 
real hurdle you will face is simple, finding another Barry as you don't scale. 
How many ActionScript 3.0 developers exist in Brisbane? How many .NET 
developers exist in Brisbane? This is where we see our difference, in that we 
aren't focused just on the runtime, we are also focused on ensuring there is a 
vibrant ecosystem. Silverlight's coming from behind, that's ok.. we'll get 
there eventually, especially when we have partners like Readify whom are 
teaching troops in multiple cities as well as whom foster this list.

Flash has a lot of pro's and con's associated to it, you know I know them much 
better than most and if I weren't a Microsoft employee, I'd unload a blog post 
or two on what these are and where they sit. The fact is, I'm a blue badge and 
have to watch what I say and when - especially being a Product Manager now. I'd 
love to get knee deep into a compete debate, but it creates to much controversy 
and folks at times simply see it as "Microsoft vs Adobe" (not to mention Adobe 
staffers just got nuts at it) and it detracts away from the intent to air the 
concerns/misinformation associated to the technology.

I will say this however, the experiences aren't always the same and we also 
have a platform agnostic approach. Silverlight IS x-platform and will continue 
to grow beyond the operating systems and into other areas (i.e. devices etc). 
Our intent is to not just be platform agnostic but also provide developers the 
ability to actually write once and deploy to many (do I need to remind you of 
the actual workflow in design to develop with Adobe technology). Flash, Flex, 
Flash Lite, AIR etc all don't offer this. It's still a fragmented conversation 
and even with Breeze / aka Adobe Connect it's still skewed. Our tools like 
Visual Studio 2008, will enable this to happen alongside Expression Studio, if 
it doesn't .. tell us as I guarantee you there are many ears keen to cover off 
blind spots we may have.

3) Why would we? Flex Framework maybe open source, but the runtime isn't, and 
so given our intent to fix the entire UX story around Microsoft technology, we 
are now building a platform to suite. In doing so, hitching our carriage behind 
a runtime that we have no control over or influence i

RE: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

[Scott Barnes]

Cool. Over it :)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of silky
Sent: Monday, 31 March 2008 5:55 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Silky,
>
>  What's your value right now to the list with the below email? Your points 
> were made, rightly or wrongly it's been
>  made. Can we move on now?

i was responding to a poster. what's your value on this list? you've
done nothing for me. who are you to judge my value? someone who finds
it valuable does; someone who doesn't doesn't.


> Keep the list focused on Silverlight - a subject - in which members have 
> subscribed to and wish to take part in
> as a community.
>
>  If you dislike Microsoft's practices or events like remix, then that's 
> perfectly fine - it's not for everyone, but most
>  folks here actually do like my employer and its respective events.
>
>  Please consider taking this offline, as I've already received complaints 
> about you and you're actually the first
> person on this list i've received complaints about ever...

to be honest i'd be happy if you removed me from this list [if you're
the owner] the only reason i'm still on it is because i forgot about
it.

i'd personally be happy to never read another email/post from you again.

--
http://lets.coozi.com.au/

There's not a problem I can't fix, because I can do it in the mix.


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RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

[Scott Barnes]

Ahh ok. Yes, the out of browser experience does play a role here (almost sounds 
like an out of body experience). What we mean by Windows + WPF is simply that 
when you look at Adobe AIR depth isn't it's strong point and you won't read 
that in the brochure. To allow folks access to an operating system in a much 
deeper capacity means that trust is somewhat sacrificed and it's something that 
we balance quite carefully (obviously). To break out of the security context of 
the browser is bad, as then it takes on a whole new meaning of the words "I 
dare you to make Silverlight a Trojan virus". I suspect that's why Adobe AIR 
was spun up away from Flash Player - as even Flash right now is facing some 
security issues  (http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/?p=1359 - in that being 
popular and secure is hard work).

To consider a x-platform mutation of Silverlight/WPF is different discussion 
and one that has both pro's and con's associated to it. What I can say is that 
providing deep access via Silverlight to the metal isn't likely to occur 
anytime soon. WPF however obviously has this capability - today - and well it's 
installed on more machines right now than Adobe AIR (Vista on OSX included - so 
it's semi-X-platform heh).

Windows XP is being depreciated and Windows Vista + Future Operating Systems 
will eventually take its place and that's something to consider long-term.




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Craig Dunn
Sent: Monday, 31 March 2008 4:30 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

Seems to me that AIR is really just Adobe grabbing an open-source browser, 
compiling with Flash and producing a host that can run directly on the OS... 
just add your custom code and call it an "application".

So basically I'm describing a Silverlight 'runtime' standalone/deployable (ie 
.EXE or .APP, depending on your platform :) to produce a branded, 
out-of-browser experience -- the main advantage (?) being offline use... I 
believe Moonlight already does something of the sort - and i a;sp understand 
it's non-trivial to create a 'host' for every platform. You don't "need" the 
browser (although it makes sense for Adobe, because they can claim to 'leverage 
your existing javascript & html skills') - just some sort of loader/host with 
direct i/o & networking. maybe it starts to look too much like J4va? or... WPF 
"everywhere" (lol)

To put it in context - the
http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/msdnreader/
and it's commercial NY Times/Seattle Intelligencer counterparts are WPF 
_applications_ - very cool (i quite like the experience) but beyond a Mac 
deployment, for example.

With the increasing power of the controls in SL2 (+3), an offline reader of 
that sort that could run on Mac (and s60/iPhone, while we're at it) in 
Silverlight. Other apps might make sense too - but you (MS) may say "that's 
what Windows is for"...

cd
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 5:01 PM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Craig,



Great list! Question, you mentioned AIR / Outside browser activation. Could you 
expand on this?



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Craig Dunn
Sent: Monday, 31 March 2008 3:19 PM

To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com>
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.


In the interests of lifting the signal-to-noise ratio (at the very least 
starting a flamewar on something relevant), my thoughts on SL3 (just OTTOMH, 
OK?):

* SQL engine in the isolated storage (ala Gears). OK with Linq and 
serialization there is probably an equivalent amount of querying/storage 
functionality, but just maybe this would still be useful? Even as i type it, it 
sounds less interesting...

* Geography CLR types from Katmai. Mapping and location-based apps are only 
going to get more common - and the Katmai types are pretty functional even on 
their own (ie without SQL08 'behind them'). Assuming a SL2 VirtualEarth 
'control' appears (and even if it doesn't), being able to perform geo stuff 
might be useful on the client. While you're at it - decouple them from Katmai 
altogether and put in the regular framework. Linq to LatLong...?

* Photosynth (and 3D engine)... OK, I reckon it'll be there anyway, but worth a 
mention. AFAICT taking DeepZoom to the "next level" will require some sort of 
3D engine to layout the MultiScaleImages that make up a Photosynth scene in 3D 
space anyway. 3D plus the Geography stuff would enable a cool 
'silverlightearth' viewer...

* Higher level controls (either from MS or 3

RE: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

[Scott Barnes]

Silky,

What's your value right now to the list with the below email? Your points were 
made, rightly or wrongly it's been made. Can we move on now? Keep the list 
focused on Silverlight - a subject - in which members have subscribed to and 
wish to take part in as a community.

If you dislike Microsoft's practices or events like remix, then that's 
perfectly fine - it's not for everyone, but most folks here actually do like my 
employer and its respective events.

Please consider taking this offline, as I've already received complaints about 
you and you're actually the first person on this list i've received complaints 
about ever...


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of silky
Sent: Monday, 31 March 2008 4:12 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 4:00 PM, Jose Fajardo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> .. forget my last comment..
>
>  I saw your blog, and now it all makes sense!

what all makes sense . :) (it is quite amusing that, on the
homepage there, i have a post titled 'idea' which is encrypted. at
least it backs up my earlier comments :)

(i didn't actually get your first email either; the mailing list
might've stopped it; or at least delayed it.

anyway, as you can probably guess, 'remix' isn't an event i'd
particularly enjoy :P


>  :)

:)

--
http://lets.coozi.com.au/

There's not a problem I can't fix, because I can do it in the mix.


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RE: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

[Scott Barnes]

Bitmap is something we are/have been looking into. It's actually my personal 
number one pick and it's obviously a worthwhile feature.

Fake3D as in PaperVision3D approach to Silverlight life? Would you prefer fake 
3D or real 3D? (ie hardware acceleration).


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jose Fajardo
Sent: Monday, 31 March 2008 3:52 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com; listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: Re: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

I would love to see the following 3 controls in the SL 3

1. Dropdown
2. Accordion
3. Menu (both horizontal and vertical)

I can build these on my own BUT man every project I've been estimating needs 
these. Im pretty sure I won't be able to make my controls as good as the MS 
Silverlight team could do.


Also definetely need Bitmap manipulation client side, there's been heaps of 
requests from clients for this. I know that we have access to the .NET CLR 
Codebase so technically we can rip out the bitmap namespace and build our own 
dll BUT just the thought of refactoring all those functions (and related 
libraries) sends shivers down my spine.


Fake 3D libraries are a must, man to think that I can't build perspective into 
my UI is killing me. I've got so many ideas for amazing UI's but they all 
require the camera/viewport 3D model.

Completely agree with Craig Dunn's list, what a great list it was!!




- Original Message -
From: silky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 3/31/2008 4:40:49 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

> On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 3:31 PM, Stephen Price <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > There's no new ideas anyway, so if we only got paid for ideas then no one
> > gets paid and we all starve, or have to move onto something like digging
> > holes or something. Not that there's anything wrong with digging holes, per
> > se, just it's not a career choice I hold dear. I'm sure there are some nice
> > hold diggers out there, but I digress.
>
> man i'd kill to dig some holes for a week or so ... it'd be a nice change.
>
> whistle at chicks, eat a sanger, rest on my shovel during my breaks.
> that'd be the life.
>
> [totally disagree with you about 'new ideas' though; but yeah, proof
> of ownership of an idea would be hard; hence the reason it's probably
> better to go the charity route rather then direct money to the first
> one to provide it].
>
> but let's also not forget that this is how product managers get paid;
> to find and implement ideas for the products then the get a % of the
> product sales - directly relating to the features within.
>
>
> > cheers,
> > Stephen
>
> --
> http://lets.coozi.com.au/
>
> There's not a problem I can't fix, because I can do it in the mix.
>
>
> --- 
> OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the 
> list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject.
> Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net
>
>
>



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RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

[Scott Barnes]

Craig,

Great list! Question, you mentioned AIR / Outside browser activation. Could you 
expand on this?

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Craig Dunn
Sent: Monday, 31 March 2008 3:19 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

In the interests of lifting the signal-to-noise ratio (at the very least 
starting a flamewar on something relevant), my thoughts on SL3 (just OTTOMH, 
OK?):

* SQL engine in the isolated storage (ala Gears). OK with Linq and 
serialization there is probably an equivalent amount of querying/storage 
functionality, but just maybe this would still be useful? Even as i type it, it 
sounds less interesting...

* Geography CLR types from Katmai. Mapping and location-based apps are only 
going to get more common - and the Katmai types are pretty functional even on 
their own (ie without SQL08 'behind them'). Assuming a SL2 VirtualEarth 
'control' appears (and even if it doesn't), being able to perform geo stuff 
might be useful on the client. While you're at it - decouple them from Katmai 
altogether and put in the regular framework. Linq to LatLong...?

* Photosynth (and 3D engine)... OK, I reckon it'll be there anyway, but worth a 
mention. AFAICT taking DeepZoom to the "next level" will require some sort of 
3D engine to layout the MultiScaleImages that make up a Photosynth scene in 3D 
space anyway. 3D plus the Geography stuff would enable a cool 
'silverlightearth' viewer...

* Higher level controls (either from MS or 3rd parties in SL2)... bitmap image 
manipulation, Xaml editor host (ie abstract object-based-drawing control), 
advanced TextBox. See buzzword.com, 
photoshop.com/express, 
blist.com for the sorts of Flash apps that would be cool to 
enable in SL3. Extend the controlset to toolbars, provide 'windowing' of 
property sheets, pinnable 'windows', etc inside the SL control/canvas. A 
'window' control may sound counter-intuitive, but then why write the 
docking/pinning/hiding/minimizing/tabbing over & over. We're already using SL1 
for an cut-down-enterprise-like app...

* Outside of browser activation - just because AIR does. Input handling would 
need to trap mouse-wheel; how about multitouch (Silverlight on Surface? iPhone?)

* SL2/3 on mobile... i'm sure that's coming anyway too. Are there any plans for 
special UI handling on phones - trapping the softkeys differently on 
small-screen nokias for eg.? Are the built-in controls 'screen size aware' 
(like the old mobile asp.net controls... not that i think 
that's necessarily a good idea, but would save us work if the calendar control 
behaved differently on Vista versus s60, for eg.).

* file format handlers (like the vista preview handlers) - show me PDF, OOXML, 
XPS, etc read-only but searchable/selectable (if the underlying doc security 
allows)... handle _files_ as well as it does _media_.

* i've seen discussion of an up/downsizer where you deploy a common Xaml 'app' 
to WPF/Silverlight... not sure how realistic that is - but Acropolis and Entity 
Framework (and MVC?) seem like a good basis for separating presentation from 
logic enough to accomplish it...

There's probably plenty of DLR ideas around too - haven't had a chance to play 
with that. I would have said unit testing & more 'software engineering' 
infrastructure if i didn't recently see the tests, etc for the controls being 
made available. _that_ is cool.

...my 2c worth ;-)

cd
http://www.conceptdevelopment.net

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OT: Silky vs Microsoft was RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

[Scott Barnes]

They do? Remind me to put that on my metrics score card as i took 3 steps back 
financially to move from Australia to US to become a Product Manager for the 
Silverlight/WPF space. I mean i had this silly ideas about wanting to change 
the world from within, to make sure Silverlight/WPF are better and bigger than 
our competitors, as well.. i spent 9 years or so using the competitor products 
and got fed up with being ignored on feature requests and customers like minded 
also being ignored. With that I also decided, that one day if I get to this 
role, I'd make damn sure I fight for the customers and be done with the 
corporate politics.

Until you just told me we get not only a slice of the revenue, but we are 
goaled on how many customers we can steal ideas from... that's awesome news for 
me, now to negotiate with my bosses as at the moment that isn't what I'm being 
goaled on.

Like I said, you're misinformed Silky - but i could be lying, as it's my word 
against yours after all and who can really trust anyone that's got Microsoft 
next to their name 

p.s
I'm being sarcastic as this has degenerated into yet another "Silky thread on a 
.NET mailing list"

I want to reach out to you dude, but you make it all so hard. Which city are 
you in, as this requires a beer/coffee/beverage conversation ;)


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of silky
Sent: Monday, 31 March 2008 3:41 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 3:31 PM, Stephen Price <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There's no new ideas anyway, so if we only got paid for ideas then no one
> gets paid and we all starve, or have to move onto something like digging
> holes or something. Not that there's anything wrong with digging holes, per
> se, just it's not a career choice I hold dear. I'm sure there are some nice
> hold diggers out there, but I digress.

man i'd kill to dig some holes for a week or so ... it'd be a nice change.

whistle at chicks, eat a sanger, rest on my shovel during my breaks.
that'd be the life.

[totally disagree with you about 'new ideas' though; but yeah, proof
of ownership of an idea would be hard; hence the reason it's probably
better to go the charity route rather then direct money to the first
one to provide it].

but let's also not forget that this is how product managers get paid;
to find and implement ideas for the products then the get a % of the
product sales - directly relating to the features within.


> cheers,
> Stephen

--
http://lets.coozi.com.au/

There's not a problem I can't fix, because I can do it in the mix.


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RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

[Scott Barnes]

Interesting you got all of that from 2 words.. My wife used to do that to me 
all the time. I say two to three words and the next thing I know I'm being 
yelled at for the assassination of JFK in 1960's..

Scott.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of silky
Sent: Monday, 31 March 2008 3:12 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Moving on...

oh? so you were just all talk about actually doing something, and are
still only interested in ideas you can get for free?

colour me surprised.

--
http://lets.coozi.com.au/

There's not a problem I can't fix, because I can do it in the mix.


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RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

[Scott Barnes]

Moving on...

Sent via my BlackJack mobile. Yes, my grammar and spelling are still terrible :)

-Original Message-
From: silky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, 31 March 2008 03:04 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com 
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.


On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Allow me to retort.

of course :)


> You've just contributed Silky, we've just rationalised the problem into 
> basically "you would like to see
> compensation per idea to a charity" and it's up to us to now implement such 
> idea. Now comes the
> question, how much do you want for the idea of the compensation idea and 
> which charity and why.

exactly! you're getting it! i'm happy to give _that_ one away for free.

you are, of course, welcome to hire me (or anyone) to help you
implement this charity idea. heck, i'd probably even do it for free,
if would actually get done.


> That's my underlying point and welcome to the community Silky and your 
> admission fee is simple,
> contribution.

eh? welcome to the community? what community? i can't make sense of
this sentence.

--
http://lets.coozi.com.au/

There's not a problem I can't fix, because I can do it in the mix.


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RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

[Scott Barnes]

Allow me to retort.

You've just contributed Silky, we've just rationalised the problem into 
basically "you would like to see compensation per idea to a charity" and it's 
up to us to now implement such idea. Now comes the question, how much do you 
want for the idea of the compensation idea and which charity and why.

That's my underlying point and welcome to the community Silky and your 
admission fee is simple, contribution.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of silky
Sent: Monday, 31 March 2008 2:34 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That's flawed logic.

no, it isn't.


>  Let's assume we do compensate folks for ideas. Firstly how does one 
> differentiate the idea from the
> actual usage. In that should we just cut a blank cheque per idea? - what's 
> the expected amount to be
> paid and does personsA idea get more than personsB idea? More to the point 
> how do we further know
> whether or not personA was inspired by personB's idea (they should get 
> compensation). Let's impose a
> tax & patent system on potential ideas.

that's not our problem; it's yours.

if you can't figure out a solution reward a charity.

your whole email here is totally disingenious.


> Then once the potential becomes reality, in that the ideas are put into the 
> runtime and introduced into
> the worlds install base. Do we then carve out an amount for our time in 
> marketing and development? (as
> those engineers in Redmond etc don't work for free) Should we then impose a 
> tax per usage on all
> developers in its use - more to the point, how does one gauge which parts are 
> being used and which
> ones aren't as with a large number of features already in place, doesn't mean 
> that everyone's used 100%
> of them. Oh also we should really have this on a context based compensation 
> position, as who's to say
> FeatureX didn't lead to the use of FeatureY and so shouldn't the owners of 
> that feature also be
> compensated?

again, not my problem. you're the company that is soliciting ideas. it
should be appropriate to have a ranking structure, etc. how that works
is up to you [make it public]. [unless you are also asking me how
_that_ should work; which is pretty ironic].


> Now comes the scary part, once this precedent is put in place, than what's to 
> say other companies -
> our competitors - don't fall victim to this model. Next thing you know, 
> innovation is starved, software
> industry spirals down to a 2008 "good old days" and ideas are bided against 
> on eBay - but then how
> does one really articulate they have the "killer idea"... is it a case of "I 
> have a killer idea, bidding starts at
> 20,000 USD - will tell you once you win bid".

ideas are worth money.


>  Silky, you appear to think you have the angles all figured out but in 
> reality you're not informed.

eh? getting personal?


> The Evangelists for example are effectively a workforce self-funded so that 
> you - are kept informed via
> our events, presentations or indirectly via MVP's etc that we work closely 
> with. If you wanted to
> breakdown what part of the Sales vs. Marketing component Evangelism falls 
> under, it's in fact marketing
> (just like all Evangelists in all companies worldwide). The idea also behind 
> Evangelists are to ensure the
> customer and business are connected, and that's why Evangelists work closely 
> with
> partners/community.

i know that.


> Frank Arrigo is a prime example of this, try and figure out how he made 
> Microsoft millions by connecting
> people who suddenly got unemployed to employers, all so they could keep 
> working on what they loved
> and chose to do as a career.

i can't make sense of this statement; but it seems like you are saying
that you don't know how microsoft even profits? [i.e. msdn licenses is
one component].


>  We aren't a company focused on nickel and diming everyone we see and always 
> looking for a quick
> buck.

sure.


> As that's sure, a short term win but in the end long-term loss (buyers 
> remorse happens fast). It's simply
> a case of build a platform & tools, put our best ideas and technology first, 
> pause, take customer
> feedback and look at ways to meet their next wave of expectations (Rinse, 
> Lather & repeat).

uh huh.


>  So...
>
>  Anyone else with some ideas around Silverlight 3 and what THEY would LIKE to 
> see in it :)

RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

[Scott Barnes]

That's flawed logic.

Let's assume we do compensate folks for ideas. Firstly how does one 
differentiate the idea from the actual usage. In that should we just cut a 
blank cheque per idea? - what's the expected amount to be paid and does 
personsA idea get more than personsB idea? More to the point how do we further 
know whether or not personA was inspired by personB's idea (they should get 
compensation). Let's impose a tax & patent system on potential ideas.

Then once the potential becomes reality, in that the ideas are put into the 
runtime and introduced into the worlds install base. Do we then carve out an 
amount for our time in marketing and development? (as those engineers in 
Redmond etc don't work for free) Should we then impose a tax per usage on all 
developers in its use - more to the point, how does one gauge which parts are 
being used and which ones aren't as with a large number of features already in 
place, doesn't mean that everyone's used 100% of them. Oh also we should really 
have this on a context based compensation position, as who's to say FeatureX 
didn't lead to the use of FeatureY and so shouldn't the owners of that feature 
also be compensated?

Now comes the scary part, once this precedent is put in place, than what's to 
say other companies - our competitors - don't fall victim to this model. Next 
thing you know, innovation is starved, software industry spirals down to a 2008 
"good old days" and ideas are bided against on eBay - but then how does one 
really articulate they have the "killer idea"... is it a case of "I have a 
killer idea, bidding starts at 20,000 USD - will tell you once you win bid".

Silky, you appear to think you have the angles all figured out but in reality 
you're not informed.

The Evangelists for example are effectively a workforce self-funded so that you 
- are kept informed via our events, presentations or indirectly via MVP's etc 
that we work closely with. If you wanted to breakdown what part of the Sales 
vs. Marketing component Evangelism falls under, it's in fact marketing (just 
like all Evangelists in all companies worldwide). The idea also behind 
Evangelists are to ensure the customer and business are connected, and that's 
why Evangelists work closely with partners/community.

Frank Arrigo is a prime example of this, try and figure out how he made 
Microsoft millions by connecting people who suddenly got unemployed to 
employers, all so they could keep working on what they loved and chose to do as 
a career.

We aren't a company focused on nickel and diming everyone we see and always 
looking for a quick buck. As that's sure, a short term win but in the end 
long-term loss (buyers remorse happens fast). It's simply a case of build a 
platform & tools, put our best ideas and technology first, pause, take customer 
feedback and look at ways to meet their next wave of expectations (Rinse, 
Lather & repeat).

So...

Anyone else with some ideas around Silverlight 3 and what THEY would LIKE to 
see in it :), my inbox is always open.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of silky
Sent: Monday, 31 March 2008 1:51 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 1:39 PM, Nick Randolph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "why should they be the only ones to benefit?" - ummm let me see wrong!

who actually talks like that? anyway, yes, of course the developers
(us) benefit too, but only to a degree. and arguably not as much as
microsoft.

why are you trying to fight me anyway, when all i'm suggesting is that
people offering ideas should be rewarded for their time spent thinking
about and proposing ideas; and the experience they have used to come
to those decisions.

don't pretend that the only reason microsoft has these 'evangelist'
type people is to benefit the community; it's to benefit themselves;
by helping improve their products (good) and make more money for the
company (fine, it's a business after all). so if it makes them money
[the idea] why shouldn't the proposer of the idea get a share? your
argument is because it helps that person too. well fine, if they don't
want the money, then have it given to a charity, but why should ms get
it? if it's an idea they wouldn't have considered otherwise? niceness?
pfft, come on.


> They
> clearly aren't the only ones to benefit.  Every feature that a vendor
> implements of course makes their product more saleable but in the end it is
> us, the consumers that really benefit.  Sure if they were genuinely abusing
> a market position to push products down our throats (no mention of a certain
> company that makes shiny white products) then it would be a different kettle
> of fish.
>
>
>
> If MS could implement even half the features the community suggests we would
> have products that are infinitely better than they are.

no not at all; not all features help, a lot just pl

RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

[Scott Barnes]

How is this taking advantage? "What would you like to see in the next version 
of the product(s) you are currently using".. It's a common practice amongst a 
lof of software vendors to listen to customer demands, and any chance I get to 
do that, i'll take... sorry for listening..i guess..

;)

Feel free to contact me offline and we can debate about this further.

Scott.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of silky
Sent: Monday, 31 March 2008 12:56 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

why don't you pay people to provide feature ideas instead of taking
advantage of the communities helpfulness?


On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> No you haven't..
>
>
>
> We are still aggregating Silverlight 3.0 features etc, so feel free for all
> to add what you'd like to see - given you've now seen what's in Silverlight
> 2.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Stephen Price
>  Sent: Friday, 28 March 2008 6:00 PM
>  To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
>  Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.
>
>
>
>
>
> I know I've probably missed the boat on adding to the wishlist, but anyway
> here goes.
>
>  Sort the install process out!! My GOD I'm pulling my hair out here!!
>
>  I've reinstalled Silverlight 2.0 four times now trying cleans and
> uninstalls and all kinds. I've found others with the same problem and the
> steps they took don't help me.
>
>  This post describes my problem exactly...
>  http://ria.dzone.com/news/are-you-facing-problem-silverl
>  under the subtitle "Issues after installing Silverlight 2 Tool for VS 2008"
>
>  I had issues with silverlight 1.0, 1.1 and now 2.0 on all machines I've
> tried it on. I'm doing something wrong... Is there a Web Install or
> something for VS2008? The patch from here
> https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/Downloads/DownloadDetails.aspx?DownloadID=10826
>  tells me that I dont have any of the affected products installed. Maybe my
> VS2008 is the wrong version? It's from MSDN (Release version)
>
>  Installed list below...
>  Microsoft Visual Studio 2008
>  Version 9.0.21022.8 RTM
>  Microsoft .NET Framework
>  Version 3.5
>
>  Installed Edition: Enterprise
>  Microsoft Visual Basic 2008
>  Microsoft Visual C# 2008
>  Microsoft Visual C++ 2008
>  Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 Tools for Office
>  Microsoft Visual Studio Team System 2008 Development Edition
>  Microsoft Visual Web Developer 2008
>  Crystal Reports Basic for Visual Studio 2008
>  ReSharper 3.1   C# Edition build 3.1.584.3 on 2007-12-20T19:16:46
>  GhostDoc for Visual Studio 2008
>
>  Can anyone help?
>
>  thanks
>  Stephen
>  p.s. Sorry about cross post, I sent this to the ausdotnet list earlier.
>  p.p.s. Sorry if post comes across all emotional like... I'm sure you
> understand. :-/
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 30, 2007 at 10:04 AM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>  Firstly Happy New Year and hope all goes well for 2008! J
>
>
>
> Secondly,
>
> Some of you may of read on my blog that I was searching online for folks
> blog posts around what they want in Silverlight 3.0? Well here is a response
> to this:
>
> http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/2007/12/21/dear-santa-in-silverlight-3-0-can-you-put.aspx
>
>
>
> "..Well Santa told me to go jump as he makes toys not technology - dah - but
> I did however personally pass these ideas / thoughts directly to the folks
> within the team who do make the decisions on the next iteration and they
> welcomed it. The point is folks, the teams aren't closed off in their
> thinking and do pay attention closely to what you all say. So now is the
> time to speak up before I close out the final email around wish lists..."
>
>
>
> Essentially I've managed to grab their full attention and if you have always
> wanted something in Silverlight now is thine chance to raise it. I'd welcome
> all serious feedback, ideas and wishlists and I promise in return to follow
> it up throughout 2008.
>
>
>
> This I swear before the Silverlight gods J heh.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Scott Barnes
>  (RIA Evangelist)
>
> Microsoft Pty | Blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: +61 (2)
> 88179139 | Mobile: 0439-072-184
>
> Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog | MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> P Please consider

RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

[Scott Barnes]

No you haven't..

We are still aggregating Silverlight 3.0 features etc, so feel free for all to 
add what you'd like to see - given you've now seen what's in Silverlight 2.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Friday, 28 March 2008 6:00 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

I know I've probably missed the boat on adding to the wishlist, but anyway here 
goes.

Sort the install process out!! My GOD I'm pulling my hair out here!!

I've reinstalled Silverlight 2.0 four times now trying cleans and uninstalls 
and all kinds. I've found others with the same problem and the steps they took 
don't help me.

This post describes my problem exactly...
http://ria.dzone.com/news/are-you-facing-problem-silverl
under the subtitle "Issues after installing Silverlight 2 Tool for VS 2008"

I had issues with silverlight 1.0, 1.1 and now 2.0 on all machines I've tried 
it on. I'm doing something wrong... Is there a Web Install or something for 
VS2008? The patch from here 
https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/Downloads/DownloadDetails.aspx?DownloadID=10826
tells me that I dont have any of the affected products installed. Maybe my 
VS2008 is the wrong version? It's from MSDN (Release version)

Installed list below...
Microsoft Visual Studio 2008
Version 9.0.21022.8 RTM
Microsoft .NET Framework
Version 3.5

Installed Edition: Enterprise
Microsoft Visual Basic 2008
Microsoft Visual C# 2008
Microsoft Visual C++ 2008
Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 Tools for Office
Microsoft Visual Studio Team System 2008 Development Edition
Microsoft Visual Web Developer 2008
Crystal Reports Basic for Visual Studio 2008
ReSharper 3.1   C# Edition build 3.1.584.3 on 2007-12-20T19:16:46
GhostDoc for Visual Studio 2008

Can anyone help?

thanks
Stephen
p.s. Sorry about cross post, I sent this to the ausdotnet list earlier.
p.p.s. Sorry if post comes across all emotional like... I'm sure you 
understand. :-/
On Sun, Dec 30, 2007 at 10:04 AM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Hi All,

Firstly Happy New Year and hope all goes well for 2008! :)



Secondly,

Some of you may of read on my blog that I was searching online for folks blog 
posts around what they want in Silverlight 3.0? Well here is a response to this:

http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/2007/12/21/dear-santa-in-silverlight-3-0-can-you-put.aspx



"..Well Santa told me to go jump as he makes toys not technology - dah - but I 
did however personally pass these ideas / thoughts directly to the folks within 
the team who do make the decisions on the next iteration and they welcomed it. 
The point is folks, the teams aren't closed off in their thinking and do pay 
attention closely to what you all say. So now is the time to speak up before I 
close out the final email around wish lists..."



Essentially I've managed to grab their full attention and if you have always 
wanted something in Silverlight now is thine chance to raise it. I'd welcome 
all serious feedback, ideas and wishlists and I promise in return to follow it 
up throughout 2008.



This I swear before the Silverlight gods :) heh.





--

Scott Barnes
(RIA Evangelist)

Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: +61 (2) 88179139 | Mobile: 
0439-072-184

Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists 
in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the 
unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw


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RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Professional Subscription

[Scott Barnes]

Some folks may want to test their wpf work to ensure its backward compliance.

Sent via my BlackJack mobile. Yes, my grammar and spelling are still terrible :)


From: Michael Washington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, 7 March 2008 08:39 AM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com 
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Professional Subscription

It comes with WindowsXP!... I don't get it

On 3/7/08, Jonathan Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

http://www.microsoft.com/expression/subscription/



This looks like a great deal.



What do people think?



Jonathan



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RE: [OzSilverlight] Cross domain web service calls and debugging.

[Scott Barnes]

I don't have any specific dates as yet that I can give out, suffice to say that 
what I'm seeing internally is a healthy state of play and It's why I'm 20x more 
excited then I was this time last year if that helps?

(sorry, I'd love to delve deeper into specifics but I don't want to raise 
commitments that i have no specific control over - it's in the hands of the 
Silverlight deities.. aka Program/Product Managers).


--
Scott Barnes
(RIA Evangelist)
Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | New! The RIA Times: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: +61 (2) 88179139 | Mobile: 
0439-072-184
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog>

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists 
in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the 
unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of .net noobie
Sent: Sunday, 20 January 2008 7:31 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Cross domain web service calls and debugging.

hello Scott,

do have any kind of timeframe on the release of SL 2.0

i know it is meant to be the first quarter of 2008

is it looking good to be ontime?
On 1/20/08, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Yeah.. our bad.. 2.0 its fixed. We will be including an integrated solution for 
cross-domain networking (trusted sources).



There is *sort of* a work-around in the mean-time:

http://blogs.msdn.com/dthorpe/archive/2007/06/18/secure-cross-domain-communication-the-architecture-journal.aspx





--

Scott Barnes
(RIA Evangelist)

Microsoft Pty <http://www.microsoft.com/australia>  | New! The RIA Times: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: +61 (2) 88179139 | Mobile: 
0439-072-184

Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog>

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists 
in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the 
unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Jose Fajardo
Sent: Sunday, 20 January 2008 6:29 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozSilverlight.com>; 
listserver@ozSilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozSilverlight.com>
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Cross domain web service calls and debugging.



Hi Jonathan,



Your not the only one experiencing headaches with cross domain calls with 
SilverLight 1.1, it's not very developer friendly!



However I believe that SilverLight 2.0 (release to be in early March for Mix 
08) will have a more elegant solution to this problem. I believe the 
Silverlight team have re-engineered a better way of performing cross-domain 
calls that doesn't require the annoying workarounds we're currently forced to 
do.



I wish I had more information regarding this... March 08 is when all will be 
revealed.



Regards







- Original Message -

From: Jonathan Parker [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

Sent: 1/20/2008 4:28:58 PM

To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozSilverlight.com>

Subject: [OzSilverlight] Cross domain web service calls and debugging.



Hi,



I'm really getting annoyed with the cross domain restriction for web services.

I know exactly why it's there but it doesn't make it easy to debug when I'm 
using

shared hosting.



At the moment I have to upload the new web service code and then recompile

the SL app against it before uploading.



Is anyone else having trouble with this or have any suggestions.





Cheers,



Jonathan



Jonathan Parker (MCTS - Web Applications)

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Blog: www.jonathanparker.com.au<http://www.jonathanparker.com.au>



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RE: [OzSilverlight] Cross domain web service calls and debugging.

[Scott Barnes]

Yeah.. our bad.. 2.0 its fixed. We will be including an integrated solution for 
cross-domain networking (trusted sources).

There is *sort of* a work-around in the mean-time:
http://blogs.msdn.com/dthorpe/archive/2007/06/18/secure-cross-domain-communication-the-architecture-journal.aspx


--
Scott Barnes
(RIA Evangelist)
Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | New! The RIA Times: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: +61 (2) 88179139 | Mobile: 
0439-072-184
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog>

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists 
in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the 
unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jose Fajardo
Sent: Sunday, 20 January 2008 6:29 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com; listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Cross domain web service calls and debugging.

Hi Jonathan,

Your not the only one experiencing headaches with cross domain calls with 
SilverLight 1.1, it's not very developer friendly!

However I believe that SilverLight 2.0 (release to be in early March for Mix 
08) will have a more elegant solution to this problem. I believe the 
Silverlight team have re-engineered a better way of performing cross-domain 
calls that doesn't require the annoying workarounds we're currently forced to 
do.

I wish I had more information regarding this... March 08 is when all will be 
revealed.

Regards



- Original Message -
From: Jonathan Parker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 1/20/2008 4:28:58 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Cross domain web service calls and debugging.

Hi,

I'm really getting annoyed with the cross domain restriction for web services.
I know exactly why it's there but it doesn't make it easy to debug when I'm 
using
shared hosting.

At the moment I have to upload the new web service code and then recompile
the SL app against it before uploading.

Is anyone else having trouble with this or have any suggestions.


Cheers,

Jonathan

Jonathan Parker (MCTS - Web Applications)
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Blog: www.jonathanparker.com.au

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[OzSilverlight] Anyone going to MIX08?

[Scott Barnes]

Hi All,

It's been quiet on this list and that concerns me ;) as either you're all busy 
writing Silverlight goodies or have mastered it all ;)

That being said, anyone in Australia got anything Silverlight related they wish 
to share in terms of demos etc? Please ping me as I'd been keen to take a 
looksee and help in any way I can.

We currently have MIX08 coming up in Las Vegas (March), and was also wondering 
whom on this list is going? If you are let me know also as I'll organise the 
bar tab now ;) heh. That being said, please all keep in mind we have REMIX08 
happening this year, details are being worked but the most important thing of 
all is we want you folks to present what you've been cooking in Silverlight.  
As I'm keen to ensure Australia pushes out the best Silverlight solutions in 
the world, or I'll lose a $50 bet with my international colleagues (i.e. NZ / 
Sth Africa is likely to beat us, and you know our nation prides at stake here).

Any who, feel free to contact me any time, as I'm your friendly local 
Evangelist whom loves a beer/coffee with anyone whom will have me ;)

--
Scott Barnes
(RIA Evangelist)
Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | New! The RIA Times: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: +61 (2) 88179139 | Mobile: 
0439-072-184
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog>

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists 
in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the 
unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw




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[OzSilverlight] Silverlight 3.0 wishlist, now's your chance.

[Scott Barnes]

Hi All,

Firstly Happy New Year and hope all goes well for 2008! :)

Secondly,
Some of you may of read on my blog that I was searching online for folks blog 
posts around what they want in Silverlight 3.0? Well here is a response to this:
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/2007/12/21/dear-santa-in-silverlight-3-0-can-you-put.aspx

"..Well Santa told me to go jump as he makes toys not technology - dah - but I 
did however personally pass these ideas / thoughts directly to the folks within 
the team who do make the decisions on the next iteration and they welcomed it. 
The point is folks, the teams aren't closed off in their thinking and do pay 
attention closely to what you all say. So now is the time to speak up before I 
close out the final email around wish lists..."

Essentially I've managed to grab their full attention and if you have always 
wanted something in Silverlight now is thine chance to raise it. I'd welcome 
all serious feedback, ideas and wishlists and I promise in return to follow it 
up throughout 2008.

This I swear before the Silverlight gods :) heh.


--
Scott Barnes
(RIA Evangelist)
Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: +61 (2) 88179139 | Mobile: 
0439-072-184
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists 
in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the 
unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw




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RE: [OzSilverlight] Blend Sept. Preview

[Scott Barnes]

Ultramon is what I use for dual monitors in VS2008.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Lynch
Sent: Friday, 16 November 2007 7:13 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Blend Sept. Preview

In the mean time you could work around it with two flat panels, a hinge and
a few screws.  If you use four panels, you can then wrap them around your
head to give you a "VR" environment.  :)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Steven Nagy
Sent: Friday, 16 November 2007 7:43 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Blend Sept. Preview

There is such software. I can't remember the name of it and a quick google,
er, live search, didn't find anything.
But it was very similar to what you mentioned. You can use predefined
layouts for your screen, and windows could be maximised in each of those
logical containers.

Not sure about your folding monitor screen, however there is a product under
development that is video particles so thin that they could be painted on to
any surface. Years away of course but eventually your dreams will become a
reality...


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Jonathan Parker
Sent: Thursday, 15 November 2007 9:55 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Blend Sept. Preview

Interesting...

I would prefer just one huge monitor with the previso that I can define as
many
"logical monitors" as I want and arange them as I want. I may even define
portions of the
physical monitor as "empty". This would enable floating monitors. I guess it
would be like docking
and floating in Visual Studio extended to "logical monitors". This would
enable great flexibility as
there are times when you want one large monitor. This would also be similar
to having monitors
that fit together withought any visible edges.

I see no reason why this should not be possible.

I think it should also be possible to have a labtop with a screen that can
be folded.

Anyone expert in patent applications? ;)

Regards,

Jonathan

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of silky
> Sent: Wednesday, 7 November 2007 7:14 PM
> To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
> Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Blend Sept. Preview
>
> ah.
>
> seriously, widescreen is where it's at for development these days.
>
> oftentimes i think it may be nice to have little floating monitors
> attached to a main, massive, wide one. the little floating ones could
> have the various windows that we like to have open [solution explorer,
> task list, command window, etc].
>
>
> On 11/7/07, Stephen Price <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I think it was in reference to a complaint (maybe from Nick?) about the
lack
> > of space in the editor window. I discovered the TAB key after talking
with a
> > designer (mentioned the designer-like hotkeys)
> >
> > Well his random post made sense to me... I'm weird tho, so that doesnt
mean
> > anything. :)
> >
> >
> > On 11/7/07, David L. Campbell
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > whew...
> > >
> > > I thought it was just me :)
> > >
> > >
> > > -Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of silky
> > > Sent: Tue 11/6/2007 9:46 PM
> > > To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
> > > Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Blend Sept. Preview
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > is it just me or did this come through with no context ..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/27/07, Jonathan Parker < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It's all good. Just hit TAB!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This will hide all panels. You can also hit F4 or click on Window ->
> > Hide
> > > > Panels.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Note that everything is still available on the side as popouts.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Very cool!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jonathan Parker (MCTS - Web Applications)
> > > >
> > > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > Blog: www.jonathanparker.com.au
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > ---
> > > > OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message
back
> > to
> > > > the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject.
> > > >  Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > mike
> > > http://lets.coozi.com.au/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ---
> > OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back
to
> > the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject.
> > > Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ---

[OzSilverlight] POC #1 - Project Harmony (pt1) (Silverlight & Flash)

[Scott Barnes]

http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/2007/11/15/poc-1-project-harmony-pt1-silverlight-flash.aspx

I just put together a Part-1 of many more blog posts to come on how to 
essentially build a RIA with Silverlight with in this case Flash. The purpose 
of this was to provide at the very minimum a bread crumb trail for those whom 
are keen to embrace Silverlight as a technology but cant' quite let go of their 
Flash skills.

In light of this, this POC will be used to dissect the "how" further and 
provide some ideas hopefully on how one is able to execute on creative vision 
vs technology semantics.

If there is a topic again, you'd love Microsoft to cover in this space, please 
let me know and i'll look to seeing if i can incorporate your feedback into 
future POC's.

--
Scott Barnes
(RIA Evangelist)
Microsoft Pty | Blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: +61 (2) 
88179139 | Mobile: 0439-072-184
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog | MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists 
in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the 
unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw

[OzSilverlight] RE: Silverlight 1.0 + ASP.NET Ajax == data!

[Scott Barnes]

I take it this is the URL in question?
http://www.wynapse.com/Silverlight/Silverlight_1.0_Meets_SQL_Via_ASP.NET_Ajax_and_Web_Services.aspx

Well done Dave & an interesting approach. I'm also spending the next 2 months 
writing some AJAX + Silverlight POC's to show one and all so if you have 
situations like this you want to explore, I'll do so and VOD cast it as well.

Scott / Microsoft.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David L. Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, 6 November 2007 3:17 AM
To: oz
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight 1.0 + ASP.NET Ajax == data!

I finally pulled my head out this weekend and thought I'd let anyone that may 
be interested know what I spent my time doing...

I haven't completed the write-up on it yet, but I'm pretty pleased with the 
result.

About 10 pm last night, I uploaded new product to WynApse.com and the 
right-hand sidebar which is a subdivided collection of links is now a 
Silverlight 1.0 canvas.

With some very slight changes, I used my code from my Desert Code Camp III 
presentation, and after pounding ASP.NET Ajax into the site, and building a Web 
Service to my database, that Outlook-Bar Style control not only works, but it's 
live to the database :)

I haven't decided if I want to retain changes yet, so any rearrangement of the 
headers will get refreshed when you reload the page. I also haven't considered 
the possibility of caching the info either, but since the data is 'live', 
there's always the possibility of me adding/removing asynchronous to the page 
display.

If anyone notices anything weird about the operation of the control, please let 
me know... we all tend to get tunnel-vision when we're working on something.

Thanks!


-Dave



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[OzSilverlight] RE: New Silverlight Application

[Scott Barnes]

Very cool!

http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/2007/10/24/silverlight-faconbacon-3d.aspx

My response...

--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Interactive Application Evangelist)

Microsoft Pty | Blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030 
| Mobile: 0439-072-184 (New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog | MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David L. Campbell
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 7:03 AM
To: oz
Subject: [OzSilverlight] New Silverlight Application

Nope.. not mine!

Two guys that are pretty prolific... Michael Washington, the guy that's been 
doing Silverlight with DNN at 
http://dnnsilverlight.adefwebserver.com/Default.aspx?base, and Jeff Paries of 
DesignWithSilverlight.com banded together and produced a *very cool* 
application:

SilverlightVR 360: 
http://www.adefwebserver.com/DotNetNukeHELP/Misc/SilverlightVR/

All the code, all the instructions included...


-Dave



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[OzSilverlight] RE: How To: Using AjaxControlToolkit to animate Silverlight.

[Scott Barnes]

I agree...I found it amazingly easy to use and Microsoft do good work at times 
that goes unnoticed this is one of them. I'm not really a fan of AJAX as i 
think we need to evolve further in this space, but this toolkit is amazing - 
especially mixed with ASP.NET.

http://67.199.14.169/

I have a Silverlight sandwhich here.. 


Btw: be sure to check out http://www.bluerosegames.com/farseersilverlightdemos/ 
they ported some physics from XNA over to Silverlight - very cool. Download it 
here at http://www.codeplex.com/FarseerPhysics

Bring on the Silverlight people!..bring it...

--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Interactive Application Evangelist)
Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Glavich
Sent: Thursday, 4 October 2007 9:18 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] RE: How To: Using AjaxControlToolkit to animate 
Silverlight.

I am a bit biased, but the AjaxControlToolkit is awesome. Particularly the 
animation support that is provided and as you have seen, works great with 
Silverlight. I noticed you used JS to do your coding work. I tend to lean 
towards using JS rather than managed code in a lot of cases as it seems to 
always come down to JS at some point. I also suspect getting the managed code 
to interact easily with the tool

It (the toolkit) takes over from ASP.NET AJAX/Atlas where all the animation 
features in atlas were dropped (Glitz fuctions and numerous other controls).

- Paul Glavich



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 7:37 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] How To: Using AjaxControlToolkit to animate 
Silverlight.
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/2007/10/03/how-to-using-ajaxcontroltoolkit-to-animate-silverlight.aspx

I was amazed how to easily I'm able to do really kickarse things with 
Silverlight + AjaxControl Toolkit. I've been monkeying around with other 
Animation Libraries in JavaScript land, but found (kool-aid aside) ours to be 
the smoothest so far.

Thoughts?


--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Interactive Application Evangelist)
Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail


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RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1

[Scott Barnes]

It worked for ICQ :P


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 8:19 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1

ZAM3D.
http://www.erain.com/Products/ZAM3D/

Seems like its been in CTP forever...

On 10/3/07, silky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
On 10/3/07, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Here's the catch22 and you can take a lesson learnt from Macromedia/Adobe on
> this one.
>
>
>
> You could turn Blend into a basic version of Visual Studio, providing some
> coding abilities etc. I think Intellisense is a brilliant idea and is
> missing from Blend (*pokes Sam/Brian*) as that should be a realistic minimal
> impact on roadmaps.
>
>
>
> Now if you were to head down the path of making Blend into a developer
> centric tool, you run the risk of forking your target audience (losing a
> chunk of your design audience.."oh blend..that's too hard for me.."). Flash
> IDE was a classic case of this, as in reality it's more tailored towards the
> "Designer / Interactive" market. Yet the more it grew in terms of coding
> experience, the more designers started to get nervous..."what do you mean I
> have to learn code..wtf, where was this in my original plan".. They kept it
> pretty fluid though, by making the code "optional" in most cases as well
> supporting ActionScript earlier generations.
>
>
>
> Expression Blend could suffer the same perception change if you head down
> this path.. could being a vague word to insert. I consider Blend to be the
> middle ground so part of me wants to do a lot of the coding basics inside it
> whilst part of me doesn't want to impact the brand or reasons for its
> existence, so what to do...

listening to customers is probably a start.

i do believe that the designer/coder seperation is a bit of a dream
land anyway. but aside from that, i don't quite understand why
*VISUAL* studio wouldn't be suited to 'designer' tasks.

personally, however, i would prefer an open-ish format that other
tools - professional tools - can export to. ie 3d tools exporting to
xaml. i've seen this i think; i forget the name of the product now
though.

i myself, as a 'programmer', don't forsee ever using "blend". whether
that means anything to the blend team is up for debate.


> I'm so glad I'm not on the Blend team :P - that said, intellisense is so
> needed though... watch what you wish for, you just may get it.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Scott Barnes
>  (Rich Interactive Application Evangelist)
>
> Microsoft Pty | Blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog |
> Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184
>
> Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this
> e-mail
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> On Behalf Of Stephen Price
>  Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 6:47 PM
>  To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com>
>
>  Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
>
>
>
>
>
> I often use Photoshop (CS3 at work, Elements at home) and have recently been
> playing with Expression Design. (Really like Design for some things). It
> really comes down to the right tool for the right job. Do we want a tool box
> full of specialised tools, or a swiss army pocket knife? I'm for the box of
> tools specific to what I do, and according to preference.
>
>
>
>
>
> That said, Photoshop, something I'd class as a design tool way more than a
> developer tool has dockable windows. I'm pretty sure they could handle it if
> it were in Blend. I suspect someone can't let go of the scalable work space.
> (or make it work with docking windows)
>
>
> (For those struggling with the Blend UI layout, I've found that reducing the
> Workspace zoom under Tools > Options > Workspace gives you a little more
> elbow room.)
>
>
>
> cheers,
>
>
> Stephen
>
>
>
> On 10/3/07, Joseph Cooney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>
>
>
> I think in an ideal world blend and VS could share the same code-base,
> however having played around with integrating with Visual Studio I'm
> inclined to think this is not such a great idea. Compare the GUI WPF
> designer in Blend to the GUI WPF designer

[OzSilverlight] How To: Using AjaxControlToolkit to animate Silverlight.

[Scott Barnes]

http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/2007/10/03/how-to-using-ajaxcontroltoolkit-to-animate-silverlight.aspx

I was amazed how to easily I'm able to do really kickarse things with 
Silverlight + AjaxControl Toolkit. I've been monkeying around with other 
Animation Libraries in JavaScript land, but found (kool-aid aside) ours to be 
the smoothest so far.

Thoughts?


--
Scott Barnes
(Rich Interactive Application Evangelist)
Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail





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[OzSilverlight] Great RIA Prototyper.

[Scott Barnes]

http://advertboy.wordpress.com/

Add this to your RSS Feeds folks, as he's got an interesting approach to 
Silverlight. I especially like how he's focused on UI concepts today that are 
around and trying to emulate them (great way to test the capabilities of 
Silverlight).

Anymore like this, please share as these are what help us all in the end..


--
Scott Barnes
(Developer Evangelist)
Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail





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RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Vs Flex Vs AJAX: Site Idea

[Scott Barnes]

Experience matters :P... (sorry, it was Macromedia's company motto and thought 
it would be funny to say that) :P

Yes, also 
prototype..prototype..prototype..prototype..prototype..prototype..prototype..prototype..prototype!
 Have fun with the Technology, avoid the scratch matches online (leave that to 
geeks like me).

Anywho

http://www.mossyblog.com/SILVERLIGHT/Demo01 This is my just kicking the tyres, 
seeing how the framerate / gui i'm working on can come together..

Same with http://www.mossyblog.com/SilverlightMaskDemo/

It's all about growing, learning and enjoying at this stage...

More later..



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 20 September 2007 11:48 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Vs Flex Vs AJAX: Site Idea

How dare you use the words Javascript and nice in the same sentence!! OMG. Who 
the hell do you think you are? ;)

Nice idea about posting/blogging about the "Experience". That way even an 
expert can not argue with you. If you say this is what I experienced, and then 
detail how it was for you, what you liked and didnt like then no one can argue 
as it's subjective.

It's all about the experience, after all!

cheers,
Stephen

On 9/20/07, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
hmmm...

I can suggest maybe you'd best not compare the three religions. The moment you 
get into a feature vs feature discussion (rating included) you're going to end 
up in a fisty cuffs with an opposing faction. It will start out neutral but 
eventually someone will break ranks and it will end in a 20 thread deep "Yo 
momma fight".

The better approach that would help the community more so is to do the 
following:


 *
Generate Tasks from users, produce a result of the task and blog about the 
"EXPERIENCE" you had doing it. Not which is better of the two, but simply your 
own perspective and lessons learnt. "I liked Silverlight for this tasklist, but 
the lack of controls really hurt. So i decided to use ASP.NET<http://asp.net/> 
AJAX to carry the burden of Form controsl, using a DIV overlay... ideally I 
would of preferred WinForm style framework in the story but *shrug* it's coming 
I guess".. You're focusing on the experience and not the technology. You can 
also then blog / dicusss some code highlights and lowlights etc..  The rating 
system would be more suited to "Did you find this helpful?" as in the end 
you're looking to inspire/help your respective community with knowledge - not - 
opinion :P Let them guage your helping?
 *
If others write Flex versions of the same task at the same time, again 
encourage them to focus on their Experience vs Technology religion. You kind of 
want to let others make their own opinion on the two/three technologies, and 
whether one is better or the other is really the "eye of the beholder".

The moment you pitch one against the other, you will face the wrath of the 
opposing team, and they usually will draw out an absolute expert, probably one 
of those propella heads that can tell you what line 2043 inside the compiler 
looks like. They will turn on you and eat you (no matter how good you become at 
arguing your points). I've worked in both Flex and Silverlight, to be honest 
there is overlaps in both their weaknesses and strengths. It depends on the 
context of the problem you are trying to solve, the community you are more used 
to being apart of and more importantly skillset / development environment.



Lastly, I use all three together :P... JavaScript is a nice bridge!



Here's some blog posts i've done from a Flex`ers perspective.

http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/tags/Going+Flex+to+Silverlight/default.aspx

http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/tags/RIA/default.aspx



--

Scott Barnes
(RIA Evangelist)


Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184  
(New!)

Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail






From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [ [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Aneesha Bakharia [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
Sent: Thursday, 20 September 2007 9:28 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com>
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Vs Flex Vs AJAX: Site Idea


Hi

I've basically got an idea for a community site that I'd like to run by this 
list

I've just started playing with Silverlight and I have already ha

RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Vs Flex Vs AJAX: Site Idea

[Scott Barnes]

hmmm...

I can suggest maybe you'd best not compare the three religions. The moment you 
get into a feature vs feature discussion (rating included) you're going to end 
up in a fisty cuffs with an opposing faction. It will start out neutral but 
eventually someone will break ranks and it will end in a 20 thread deep "Yo 
momma fight".

The better approach that would help the community more so is to do the 
following:


 *
Generate Tasks from users, produce a result of the task and blog about the 
"EXPERIENCE" you had doing it. Not which is better of the two, but simply your 
own perspective and lessons learnt. "I liked Silverlight for this tasklist, but 
the lack of controls really hurt. So i decided to use ASP.NET AJAX to carry the 
burden of Form controsl, using a DIV overlay... ideally I would of preferred 
WinForm style framework in the story but *shrug* it's coming I guess".. You're 
focusing on the experience and not the technology. You can also then blog / 
dicusss some code highlights and lowlights etc..  The rating system would be 
more suited to "Did you find this helpful?" as in the end you're looking to 
inspire/help your respective community with knowledge - not - opinion :P Let 
them guage your helping?
 *
If others write Flex versions of the same task at the same time, again 
encourage them to focus on their Experience vs Technology religion. You kind of 
want to let others make their own opinion on the two/three technologies, and 
whether one is better or the other is really the "eye of the beholder".

The moment you pitch one against the other, you will face the wrath of the 
opposing team, and they usually will draw out an absolute expert, probably one 
of those propella heads that can tell you what line 2043 inside the compiler 
looks like. They will turn on you and eat you (no matter how good you become at 
arguing your points). I've worked in both Flex and Silverlight, to be honest 
there is overlaps in both their weaknesses and strengths. It depends on the 
context of the problem you are trying to solve, the community you are more used 
to being apart of and more importantly skillset / development environment.



Lastly, I use all three together :P... JavaScript is a nice bridge!



Here's some blog posts i've done from a Flex`ers perspective.

http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/tags/Going+Flex+to+Silverlight/default.aspx

http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/tags/RIA/default.aspx


--
Scott Barnes
(RIA Evangelist)

Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184 
(New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail






From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aneesha Bakharia [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 20 September 2007 9:28 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Vs Flex Vs AJAX: Site Idea

Hi

I've basically got an idea for a community site that I'd like to run by this 
list

I've just started playing with Silverlight and I have already have a bit of 
Flex experience. While working through Silverlight tutorials, I keep comparing 
how things are done in Silverlight with Flex and AJAX.  I am interested in 
getting an understanging of the strengths and weaknesses of each of these 
technologies - quite natural for a developer. I am thinking of setting up a 
site with the following features:
- Users can request RIA tasks
- Users are allowed to post solutions in Silverlight, Flex or an AJAX framework 
(all three combined, if thats what it takes to accomplish a task)
- Users are able to compare and rate solutions

Essentially I am hoping the site will turn out to be a decision making tool, 
where developers can select the tasks that their RIA requires, view a matrix of 
solutions and see what each solution involves.

Thoughts?

--
Aneesha
Blog: http://www.randomsyntax.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/aneesha 
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RE: [OzSilverlight] yo

[Scott Barnes]

Sam welcome to the fold :P and the list is going for gold ;P

I was wondering if other fellow Microsoftians could do a sound off (name, rank 
and brief background) so that others may get similiar perspective to what Sam 
just outlined.

(FYI: Sam forgot to mention he was also one of the demi-god Flash gurus back in 
the day, and from memory wrote the first book on Flash OOP with Branden Hall 
"OOP for ActionScript" ).

In case those of you whom haven't met me or know whom I am:
---
Scott Barnes, RIA (Rich Interactive/Internet Application(s)) Evangelist for 
Microsoft Australia. I'm focused mostly around Community and Silverlight. In a 
previous life to Microsoft, I was an Adobe Flex / Flash Developer. I own two 
blogs, which I'm slowly merging into one, but they are:

http://www.visitmix.com/blogs/mossyblog (Purely about RIA and RIA only).
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog (General Rants, may find an Adobe blogfight 
or two *sorry*).

I'm working on a couple of projects at the moment:
http://www.BeyondTheBrowser.NET and http://www.SilverlightCoders.com) more on 
this at a later date.

If you have events, User Groups etc you want me to come to (Australia), don't 
hesitate to drop me an email or contact me via http://twitter.com/mossyblog


Thanks.
Tim you're up next :P



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Samuel Wan [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 20 September 2007 5:19 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] yo

Just wanted to say hey, everyone. My name's Samuel Wan, and I've been a
program manager on Expression Blend for 4 years (basically, a long time
before it shipped). I heard about this list from an internal thread that
Scott sent around. It's nice to find a less crowded mailing list with a
good signal-to-noise ratio.

-Sam


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RE: [OzSilverlight] Feasibility of Image Manipulation in Silverlight

[Scott Barnes]

Yes..Yes I am...

Now i have this funny idea bout doing a skit based around that guy from "LEAVE 
BRITNEY ALONE" videos .. but I am a very disturbed mind and thus why I work at 
Microsoft :P ...

Now returning you back to you regular broadcasting station format...



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 19 September 2007 6:25 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Feasibility of Image Manipulation in Silverlight

Let me get this straight... are you are saying the Silverlight dev team are a 
bunch of Pretty girls? Or that they have problems getting dates?

:)

On 9/19/07, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

It may sound like corporate "blah" but the teams do listen to feedback given 
from all angles. Problem is at times is that they can suffer from Pretty Girl 
syndrome… where you have this pretty girl and some guys want to ask her out, 
but they think "oh she's pretty, she must have a boyfriend.." and never do.. 
only she's sitting back thinking "Is it me.. do I smell.. why won't guys ask me 
out"…



The worst the team can do is either ignore your request or say no. That being 
said, cc me in on the requests and when I hit Seattle for my internal training 
sessions, I'll chase them up and see what we can get in terms of answers?



--

Scott Barnes
(Developer Evangelist)


Microsoft Pty <http://www.microsoft.com/australia>  | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030  | Mobile: 0439-072-184 
( New!)

Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Jose Fajardo
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 10:10 AM

To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozSilverlight.com>
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Feasibility of Image Manipulation in Silverlight



I too back your request for Bitmap manipulation in SilverLight 1.1. ….. I have 
a swag of desktop applications that I would love to port over to SilverLight 
that does image manipulation (like thumb generation, image manipulation & 
saving etc). I've raised this in the silverlight.net<http://silverlight.net/> 
forums too..



I really hope they listen!



Ps. I somehow think it may not be possible in terms of performance and browser 
security but I'll let the silverlight guru's tell me that!



Level 10, Hilton

255 Pitt Street

Sydney   NSW   2000
Tel:  61 2 9994 7446

Fax: 61 2 9994 6372
Mob:0410 374 204
Website:  www.challenger.com.au<http://www.challenger.com.au/>



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Friday, 7 September 2007 11:44 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozSilverlight.com>
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Feasibility of Image Manipulation in Silverlight



Hi Aneesha,



Negative. The classes you see in the ActionScript 3 version uses BitmapAPI , 
something we don't have inside Silverlight – yet (I am lobbying hard for this 
feature though). The Bitmap API allows developers the ability to define a 
rectangle region within an image/embedded asset and simply manipulate the 
pixels within that region, in that it can do a scan pixel by pixel and based on 
color algorithms can adhere to the formula you provided.







--

Scott Barnes
(Developer Evangelist)

Microsoft Pty <http://www.microsoft.com/australia>  | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030  | Mobile: 0439-072-184 
( New!)

Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Aneesha Bakharia
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 11:16 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com>
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Feasibility of Image Manipulation in Silverlight



Hi

There has been a few posts around the place regarding a new context aware image 
resizing algorithm. I've just discovered an ActionScript 3 implementation ( 
http://www.zeropointnine.com/blog/seam-carving-in-as3-with-source). Any 
comments on the feasibility of porting this to SilverLight. I've been meaning 
to get into Silverlight and this might be an interesting 'starting' project.

Thanks

--
Aneesha
Blog: http://www.randomsyntax.com<htt

RE: [OzSilverlight] Feasibility of Image Manipulation in Silverlight

[Scott Barnes]

It may sound like corporate "blah" but the teams do listen to feedback given 
from all angles. Problem is at times is that they can suffer from Pretty Girl 
syndrome... where you have this pretty girl and some guys want to ask her out, 
but they think "oh she's pretty, she must have a boyfriend.." and never do.. 
only she's sitting back thinking "Is it me.. do I smell.. why won't guys ask me 
out"...

The worst the team can do is either ignore your request or say no. That being 
said, cc me in on the requests and when I hit Seattle for my internal training 
sessions, I'll chase them up and see what we can get in terms of answers?

--
Scott Barnes
(Developer Evangelist)

Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184 
(New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jose Fajardo
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 10:10 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Feasibility of Image Manipulation in Silverlight

I too back your request for Bitmap manipulation in SilverLight 1.1. . I 
have a swag of desktop applications that I would love to port over to 
SilverLight that does image manipulation (like thumb generation, image 
manipulation & saving etc). I've raised this in the silverlight.net forums too..

I really hope they listen!

Ps. I somehow think it may not be possible in terms of performance and browser 
security but I'll let the silverlight guru's tell me that!

Level 10, Hilton
255 Pitt Street
Sydney   NSW   2000
Tel:  61 2 9994 7446
Fax: 61 2 9994 6372
Mob:0410 374 204
Website:  www.challenger.com.au

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Friday, 7 September 2007 11:44 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Feasibility of Image Manipulation in Silverlight

Hi Aneesha,

Negative. The classes you see in the ActionScript 3 version uses BitmapAPI , 
something we don't have inside Silverlight - yet (I am lobbying hard for this 
feature though). The Bitmap API allows developers the ability to define a 
rectangle region within an image/embedded asset and simply manipulate the 
pixels within that region, in that it can do a scan pixel by pixel and based on 
color algorithms can adhere to the formula you provided.



--
Scott Barnes
(Developer Evangelist)
Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184 
(New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aneesha Bakharia
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 11:16 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Feasibility of Image Manipulation in Silverlight

Hi

There has been a few posts around the place regarding a new context aware image 
resizing algorithm. I've just discovered an ActionScript 3 implementation ( 
http://www.zeropointnine.com/blog/seam-carving-in-as3-with-source). Any 
comments on the feasibility of porting this to SilverLight. I've been meaning 
to get into Silverlight and this might be an interesting 'starting' project.

Thanks

--
Aneesha
Blog: http://www.randomsyntax.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/aneesha 
--- 
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RE: [OzSilverlight] Feasibility of Image Manipulation in Silverlight

[Scott Barnes]

Hi Aneesha,

Negative. The classes you see in the ActionScript 3 version uses BitmapAPI , 
something we don't have inside Silverlight - yet (I am lobbying hard for this 
feature though). The Bitmap API allows developers the ability to define a 
rectangle region within an image/embedded asset and simply manipulate the 
pixels within that region, in that it can do a scan pixel by pixel and based on 
color algorithms can adhere to the formula you provided.



--
Scott Barnes
(Developer Evangelist)

Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184 
(New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aneesha Bakharia
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 11:16 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Feasibility of Image Manipulation in Silverlight

Hi

There has been a few posts around the place regarding a new context aware image 
resizing algorithm. I've just discovered an ActionScript 3 implementation ( 
http://www.zeropointnine.com/blog/seam-carving-in-as3-with-source). Any 
comments on the feasibility of porting this to SilverLight. I've been meaning 
to get into Silverlight and this might be an interesting 'starting' project.

Thanks

--
Aneesha
Blog: http://www.randomsyntax.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/aneesha 
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RE: [OzSilverlight] Drawing a single pixel

[Scott Barnes]

Makes sense giving the inkpresenters purpose is to capture lots of ink points.. 
Which is all disco - yet - steve do us a favor and animate them and see if 
there is a performance overhead?

As so far Silverlight hs suprised me in how well it manages vector in regards 
performance and this may give it some nice jetstream heh

-- Sent while nursing newborn Emilly & via Windows Mobile --

-Original Message-
From: "Steven Nagy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "listserver@ozSilverlight.com" 
Sent: 26/08/2007 4:03 PM
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Drawing a single pixel


Hey guys, I found this:
http://www.thedatafarm.com/silverlightink/

Essentially you can use the InkPresenter class. Here’s a quick translation from 
that javascript version to C#.

Add the relevant XAML to your Page.xaml:



Then hook up the mouse events in page load:

inkPresenterElement.MouseLeftButtonDown += new 
MouseEventHandler(inkPresenterElement_MouseLeftButtonDown);
inkPresenterElement.MouseLeftButtonUp += new 
MouseEventHandler(inkPresenterElement_MouseLeftButtonUp);
inkPresenterElement.MouseMove += new 
MouseEventHandler(inkPresenterElement_MouseMove);

And finally, add ‘strokes’ as required.

private Stroke newStroke;
void inkPresenterElement_MouseMove(object sender, MouseEventArgs e)
{
if (newStroke != null)
{

newStroke.StylusPoints.AddStylusPoints(e.GetStylusPoints(inkPresenterElement));
}
}
void inkPresenterElement_MouseLeftButtonUp(object sender, 
MouseEventArgs e)
{
newStroke = null;
}
void inkPresenterElement_MouseLeftButtonDown(object sender, 
MouseEventArgs e)
{
   inkPresenterElement.CaptureMouse();
   newStroke = new Stroke();
   
newStroke.StylusPoints.AddStylusPoints(e.GetStylusPoints(inkPresenterElement));
   newStroke.DrawingAttributes.Color = Color.FromRgb(100, 255, 100);
   inkPresenterElement.Strokes.Add(newStroke);
}

Hope this helps others.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Nagy
Sent: Sunday, 26 August 2007 1:45 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Drawing a single pixel

Thanks. I look forward to hearing your solution.

Oh and congrats on bringing another Barnes into the world.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Sunday, 26 August 2007 11:16 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com; listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Drawing a single pixel


Yes... But vector comes at a price. In that performance can me an issue. It has 
to do with how it paints and repaints. Bitmap approach would be ideal i have an 
idea on how you could do this using an old flash trick :)



Will test tonight and get back to all



-- Sent via Windows Mobile --



-Original Message-

From: "Steven Nagy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "listserver@ozSilverlight.com" 

Sent: 26/08/2007 10:56 AM

Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Drawing a single pixel


Thanks all.
It seems the click through on that link is dodgy though.

I could do it as a line, but I was also thinking it might be better as a path?
That way as the user moves the mouse, it becomes a long collection of points in 
the path.

The ever popular Paint program that comes with your OS has a spray can 
“airbrush” that you can select. The result is a “scattered particle” effect 
where you draw.
Do you think this is replicable easily in SilverLight?

Cheers,
Steven


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Heuer
Sent: Sunday, 26 August 2007 8:52 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Drawing a single pixel

Here’s the link Dave is referring too – it hasn’t been updated, but if you do 
some clever sniffing you might get some starting points.

http://blogs.interfacett.com/simon/2006/12/13/wpfe-mouse-track.html

-th

tim heuer | (602) 405-4567 | im: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | 
blog: http://timheuer.com/blog/

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David L. Campbell
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 3:30 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Drawing a single pixel

Well...

I'd probably do a 1 pixel-width line one pixel long, if that's what I needed.

Simon Allardice did a scribble type program in WPF/E ... not sure if it had 
source... I'll look.

Also beware that depending upon where you start and stop your lines, they may 
be anti-aliased even if you pick 1 pixel as the width. If you run into that, I 
have an article on my site that discusses it.

-Dave


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Steven Nagy
Sent: Sat 8/25/2007 3:03 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.co

RE: [OzSilverlight] Drawing a single pixel

[Scott Barnes]

Yes... But vector comes at a price. In that performance can me an issue. It has 
to do with how it paints and repaints. Bitmap approach would be ideal i have an 
idea on how you could do this using an old flash trick :)

Will test tonight and get back to all

-- Sent via Windows Mobile --

-Original Message-
From: "Steven Nagy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "listserver@ozSilverlight.com" 
Sent: 26/08/2007 10:56 AM
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Drawing a single pixel


Thanks all.
It seems the click through on that link is dodgy though.

I could do it as a line, but I was also thinking it might be better as a path?
That way as the user moves the mouse, it becomes a long collection of points in 
the path.

The ever popular Paint program that comes with your OS has a spray can 
“airbrush” that you can select. The result is a “scattered particle” effect 
where you draw.
Do you think this is replicable easily in SilverLight?

Cheers,
Steven


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Heuer
Sent: Sunday, 26 August 2007 8:52 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Drawing a single pixel

Here’s the link Dave is referring too – it hasn’t been updated, but if you do 
some clever sniffing you might get some starting points.

http://blogs.interfacett.com/simon/2006/12/13/wpfe-mouse-track.html

-th

tim heuer | (602) 405-4567 | im: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | 
blog: http://timheuer.com/blog/

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David L. Campbell
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 3:30 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Drawing a single pixel

Well...

I'd probably do a 1 pixel-width line one pixel long, if that's what I needed.

Simon Allardice did a scribble type program in WPF/E ... not sure if it had 
source... I'll look.

Also beware that depending upon where you start and stop your lines, they may 
be anti-aliased even if you pick 1 pixel as the width. If you run into that, I 
have an article on my site that discusses it.

-Dave


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Steven Nagy
Sent: Sat 8/25/2007 3:03 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Drawing a single pixel
Hi,
Someone asked this last week and I don’t think the answers really met the 
question.
Now I’m seeking to do the same thing so I suppose I’m going to re-ask the 
question.

I need to paint a single pixel at a time. The idea is that the user will be 
holding the mouse down and where they move it, there will be a trail of pixels.
Essentially similar to a painting program.

I’m guessing I could just draw a whole lot of 1x1 rectangles but this seems 
spammy.
What would be the best way to do this painting affect?

Thanks,
Steven
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RE: [OzSilverlight] 1.0 RC breaks 1.1 alpha

[Scott Barnes]

Hi Jonathan,

It's expired runtime and I can send you it if you like. Yet, you'll have to 
wind your clocks back otherwise the runtime prompts you with an error (which 
basically is an expiry past-due do not past go message).


--
Scott Barnes
(Developer Evangelist)

Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog (new blog design) | Office: 7-3218-7030 | 
Mobile: 0439-072-184 (New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Parker
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 11:11 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] 1.0 RC breaks 1.1 alpha

Has anyone had problems with the 1.0 RC breaking the 1.1 alpha?
I had auto updates turned on so I was automatically upgraded to the 1.0 RC from 
the beta.
I previously had the 1.0 beta and the 1.1 alpha installed but now building 
fails with the error that
the silverlight framework is not installed. I'm using Orcas beta 1. With the 
silverlight extensions.
If I need to download the 1.1 again where would I find it. It seems to have 
disappeared from silverlight.net.


Regards,

Jonathan.

Jonathan Parker (MCTS - Web Applications)
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Blog: www.jonathanparker.com.au

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RE: [OzSilverlight] Installing Silverlight 1.1 Alpha refresh

[Scott Barnes]

Yup, I'm subscribed to Wynapse goodness!! :P

--
Scott Barnes
(Developer Evangelist)

Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184 
(New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David L. Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 9:35 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Installing Silverlight 1.1 Alpha refresh

Well...

I posted this once before, but my site is:

http://www.wynapse.com

I blog at:

http://geekswithblogs.net/WynApseTechnicalMusings

and I have 24 SL articles and 9 tutorials on the site, which only adds up to 
33, so when I said 38 before, I was thinking canvases, not pages :)

My Master Page has 2 canvases, and a couple of the pages have multiple canvases.

I'll make an announcement when the new site goes live...

If only I could lock myself away for a while I could get that all done quicker 
:)

-Dave


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Jose Fajardo
Sent: Mon 7/30/2007 4:00 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Installing Silverlight 1.1 Alpha refresh
Yeah I hear ya, I need to finish off my silverlight project as well. It's just 
hard to find time these days. Man what I would give to just lock myself away 
for a month and just do SilverLight coding/hacking :)

Shoot me your silverlight site when it's done or when it's ready for viewing!



Level 10, Hilton
255 Pitt Street
Sydney   NSW   2000
Tel:  61 2 9994 7446
Fax: 61 2 9994 6372
Mob:0410 374 204
Website:  www.challenger.com.au

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David L. Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, 31 July 2007 8:49 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Installing Silverlight 1.1 Alpha refresh

No big deal, Jose :)

Now that we've got the changes all done for a while, maybe I can get back to 
creating content. I've got a nice app partially coded, and a new Silverlight 
site in the works, so the next week or so might be fun!

-Dave


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Jose Fajardo
Sent: Mon 7/30/2007 3:44 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Installing Silverlight 1.1 Alpha refresh
Oops my apologies!

Level 10, Hilton
255 Pitt Street
Sydney   NSW   2000
Tel:  61 2 9994 7446
Fax: 61 2 9994 6372
Mob:0410 374 204
Website:  www.challenger.com.au

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David L. Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, 31 July 2007 8:42 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Installing Silverlight 1.1 Alpha refresh

Thanks Jose, but I think you misunderstood my comments.

My site is complete... all 38 pages of Silverlight, and I've posted an article 
of my own about the changes I needed to make which weren't a lot.

My post this morning had to do with the RC1 update on this machine being 
difficult to get installed, and it's intermediate interaction with my site.

On my site this weekend, I had to deal with an issue that I haven't seen 
discussed anywhere else and that is the OpacityMask.

My change discussion is here:

http://www.wynapse.com/Silverlight/Silverlight_1.0_Beta_To_RC1_Conversion.aspx

-Dave
http://www.wynapse.com<http://www.wynapse.com/>
MVP:Visual Developer - Client Application Development



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Jose Fajardo
Sent: Mon 7/30/2007 3:30 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Installing Silverlight 1.1 Alpha refresh
There are a lot of fundamental breaking changes in RC1.

When you installed RC1 you automatically caused your silverlight site to break 
because the silverlight.js, your createsilverlight.js and xAML files were now 
broken.

You need to update the silverlight.js file with the new one provided. As well 
as update a load of things in the xAML and javascript code pertaining to broken 
changes.

Check out this posting to give you an idea of the things that changed, theres 
also a link in there to the document that lists the breaking changes and what 
you need to do to fix them.

http://advertboy.wordpress.com/2007/07/27/project-silverlight-11-intermission-making-it-work-with-the-release-candidate-silverlight-rc/




Level 10, Hilton
255 Pitt Street
Sydney   NSW   2000
Tel:  61 2 9994 7446
Fax: 61 2 9994 6372
Mob:0410 374 204
Website:  www.challenger.com.au

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David L. Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, 31 July 2007 1:33 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Installing Silverlight 1.1 Alpha refresh

I just had a weird experienc

RE: [OzSilverlight] Installing Silverlight 1.1 Alpha refresh

[Scott Barnes]

Well i work for msft and i dont get time either to sit and play with our own 
toy...

If any of you do anything with SL let me know as id love to sing your praises 
via msft comms

-Original Message-
From: "Jose Fajardo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "listserver@ozSilverlight.com" 
Sent: 31/07/2007 9:04 AM
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Installing Silverlight 1.1 Alpha refresh


Yeah I hear ya, I need to finish off my silverlight project as well. It’s just 
hard to find time these days. Man what I would give to just lock myself away 
for a month and just do SilverLight coding/hacking :)

Shoot me your silverlight site when it’s done or when it’s ready for viewing!



Level 10, Hilton
255 Pitt Street
Sydney   NSW   2000
Tel:  61 2 9994 7446
Fax: 61 2 9994 6372
Mob:0410 374 204
Website:  www.challenger.com.au

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David L. Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, 31 July 2007 8:49 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Installing Silverlight 1.1 Alpha refresh

No big deal, Jose :)

Now that we've got the changes all done for a while, maybe I can get back to 
creating content. I've got a nice app partially coded, and a new Silverlight 
site in the works, so the next week or so might be fun!

-Dave


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Jose Fajardo
Sent: Mon 7/30/2007 3:44 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Installing Silverlight 1.1 Alpha refresh
Oops my apologies!

Level 10, Hilton
255 Pitt Street
Sydney   NSW   2000
Tel:  61 2 9994 7446
Fax: 61 2 9994 6372
Mob:0410 374 204
Website:  www.challenger.com.au

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David L. Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, 31 July 2007 8:42 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Installing Silverlight 1.1 Alpha refresh

Thanks Jose, but I think you misunderstood my comments.

My site is complete... all 38 pages of Silverlight, and I've posted an article 
of my own about the changes I needed to make which weren't a lot.

My post this morning had to do with the RC1 update on this machine being 
difficult to get installed, and it's intermediate interaction with my site.

On my site this weekend, I had to deal with an issue that I haven't seen 
discussed anywhere else and that is the OpacityMask.

My change discussion is here:

http://www.wynapse.com/Silverlight/Silverlight_1.0_Beta_To_RC1_Conversion.aspx

-Dave
http://www.wynapse.com<http://www.wynapse.com/>
MVP:Visual Developer - Client Application Development



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Jose Fajardo
Sent: Mon 7/30/2007 3:30 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Installing Silverlight 1.1 Alpha refresh
There are a lot of fundamental breaking changes in RC1.

When you installed RC1 you automatically caused your silverlight site to break 
because the silverlight.js, your createsilverlight.js and xAML files were now 
broken.

You need to update the silverlight.js file with the new one provided. As well 
as update a load of things in the xAML and javascript code pertaining to broken 
changes.

Check out this posting to give you an idea of the things that changed, theres 
also a link in there to the document that lists the breaking changes and what 
you need to do to fix them.

http://advertboy.wordpress.com/2007/07/27/project-silverlight-11-intermission-making-it-work-with-the-release-candidate-silverlight-rc/




Level 10, Hilton
255 Pitt Street
Sydney   NSW   2000
Tel:  61 2 9994 7446
Fax: 61 2 9994 6372
Mob:0410 374 204
Website:  www.challenger.com.au

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David L. Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, 31 July 2007 1:33 AM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Installing Silverlight 1.1 Alpha refresh

I just had a weird experience on my machine at my client's installation with 
the Beta refresh...

XP SP2, been running SL since WPF/E CTP, and I updated to 1.0 RC 1 onFriday.

Started up my site just now and it didn't even show the boxes, threw an error 
that it didn't know what "Silverlight" was.

I went to the d/l site and re-ran the RC1 install, and it said I needed to 
restart the browser... I did, and got the exact same results all the way 
through.

Didn't restart the browser that time, but went back to my site and now had the 
graphic to d/l SL which I clicked. It seemingly ran everything a 3rd time, and 
this time I did reboot the browser, and voila... I've got SL ... who knows what 
will happen after a reboot though...

-Dave


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Scott Barnes
Sent: Sun 7/29/2007 9:38 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Installing Silverlight 1.1 Alpha refresh
On some machin

RE: [OzSilverlight] Installing Silverlight 1.1 Alpha refresh

[Scott Barnes]

On some machines it happens whilst on others it doesn't.  Looking now for the 
official answer on this one as I can appreciate Stephen's  initial thoughts 
around it.

--
Scott Barnes
(Developer Evangelist)

Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184 
(New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shane Morris
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 2:14 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Installing Silverlight 1.1 Alpha refresh

I suffered the same fate - I thought maybe I hadn't bothered to read some 
warning so I shrugged it off. Last I heard the intention was for Silverlight to 
install in place in IE without requiring a browser restart, maybe this is just 
a temporary aberration. (Also, last I heard, a browser restart would be 
required in Firefox - I haven't tried it lately).

Shanemo

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Saturday, 28 July 2007 11:39 AM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Installing Silverlight 1.1 Alpha refresh

I just installed it a minute ago... I did *NOT* like that it closed my browser 
without asking me. I had a lot of tabs open. However, It did reopen my browser 
with all the tabs I had open... so that kind of made up for it.

I still think it should warn you. What if I was in the middle of a banking 
transaction while I was installing Silverlight? (Silly I know, but hey I was in 
'user mode')

cheers,
Stephen
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RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Exception Handling

[Scott Barnes]

Yeah, post dev well this is where you're going to have to get disciplined in 
the mean time. In that bake your own, write a few try/catch wrappers and pray 
to the Silverlight gods that it works for now. I expect as future iterations 
occur this model will obviously get more mature. I know it's not the most 
elegant story to tell at the moment and wish I had more information to give you 
:(

(Just know I and others are suffering with you? If that's helps ease the pain).

P.S
I've already added this to my warlist (i.e. I keep a list of these things which 
I hand off to some of the Managers for SL as feedback).
--
Scott Barnes
(Developer Evangelist)

Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184 
(New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Webber
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 11:31 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Exception Handling

Thanks Scott, thats what I have been doing (setting break on thrown exception), 
which is fine when doing dev, I was wondering/worrying about post dev :)
On 7/27/07, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

You goose :)



--

Scott Barnes
(Developer Evangelist)

Microsoft Pty <http://www.microsoft.com/australia>  | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030  | Mobile: 0439-072-184 
 (New!)

Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 11:18 PM

To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com>
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Exception Handling



Wait a second... dont have work tomorrow. lol

On 7/27/07, Stephen Price <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Hmm... I had two versions of Blend installed but the one I have now wanted me 
to uninstall the existing one (not sure if it wanted both gone or not)



Was going to kick off the VS2008 download tonight but it's going to take half 
of my mother-in-law's download quota... so will do it at work tomorrow.



I'll grab the Blend 2.0 Preview tho.



Thanks guys,

Stephen



On 7/27/07, Vincent Vergonjeanne <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:

Yep, you need to install VS2008 and Blend 2 ...



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 2:05 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com>
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Exception Handling



This list is great, looking forward to getting into some Silverlight.



Just found there doesn't seem to be any addon tools for VS2005 for 
Silverlight... and the Blend I have installed (1.0.1x) doesn't either. dang I 
was going to do some playing tonight.



Cheers,

Stephen


On 7/27/07, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Hi Adam,



This will change in future versions but yeah, the exception inside C# will 
basically sit there and stare blankly at you unless you code-step your way 
through it. You can catch this yourself and bake your own debugger via 
[Scriptable] style routing, but at present unhandled exceptions can be 
cumbersome to catch natively.



The documentation at the moment refers to JavaScript approach to Silverlight 
(where as you are looking for C#). This will obviously change as future 
versions progress.







--

Scott Barnes
(Developer Evangelist)

Microsoft Pty <http://www.microsoft.com/australia>  | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030  | Mobile: 0439-072-184 
 ( New!)

Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Adam Webber
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 10:51 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com>
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Exception Handling



Hi,

When an (unhandled) exception occurs in say the Page.xaml.cs (code behind), the 
exception 'disappears' or is swallowed, and the browser just sits there.

Is this expe

[OzSilverlight] Cool: 3D Silverlight

[Scott Barnes]

Trying something new with the list, if you spot something "Cool" prefix "Cool:" 
and share (both your own work and others).

I noticed this tonight, 3D inside Silverlight

http://www.windowsvista.si/main.htm?content=home&show3d=1


--
Scott Barnes
(Developer Evangelist)

Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184 
(New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail




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RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Exception Handling

[Scott Barnes]

You goose :)

--
Scott Barnes
(Developer Evangelist)

Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184 
(New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 11:18 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Exception Handling

Wait a second... dont have work tomorrow. lol
On 7/27/07, Stephen Price <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
Hmm... I had two versions of Blend installed but the one I have now wanted me 
to uninstall the existing one (not sure if it wanted both gone or not)

Was going to kick off the VS2008 download tonight but it's going to take half 
of my mother-in-law's download quota... so will do it at work tomorrow.

I'll grab the Blend 2.0 Preview tho.

Thanks guys,
Stephen


On 7/27/07, Vincent Vergonjeanne <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:

Yep, you need to install VS2008 and Blend 2 ...



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 2:05 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com>
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Exception Handling



This list is great, looking forward to getting into some Silverlight.



Just found there doesn't seem to be any addon tools for VS2005 for 
Silverlight... and the Blend I have installed (1.0.1x) doesn't either. dang I 
was going to do some playing tonight.



Cheers,

Stephen


On 7/27/07, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Hi Adam,



This will change in future versions but yeah, the exception inside C# will 
basically sit there and stare blankly at you unless you code-step your way 
through it. You can catch this yourself and bake your own debugger via 
[Scriptable] style routing, but at present unhandled exceptions can be 
cumbersome to catch natively.



The documentation at the moment refers to JavaScript approach to Silverlight 
(where as you are looking for C#). This will obviously change as future 
versions progress.







--

Scott Barnes
(Developer Evangelist)

Microsoft Pty <http://www.microsoft.com/australia>  | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030  | Mobile: 0439-072-184 
( New!)

Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Adam Webber
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 10:51 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com>
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Exception Handling



Hi,

When an (unhandled) exception occurs in say the Page.xaml.cs (code behind), the 
exception 'disappears' or is swallowed, and the browser just sits there.

Is this expected behaviour?

Doco talks about the onError handler for Sys.Silverlight.createObject, but this 
is not being reached when code-behind exceptions occur.

Does anyone have any insight into this?  How can I trap unhandled code-behind 
exceptions at some global level and then handle them gracefully from a browser 
perspective?

Cheers,

Adam.
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RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Exception Handling

[Scott Barnes]

Hi Stephen,


1)  You can get VS2008 B2 if you'd like, this is now available to the 
public, mind you its beta and you wear the risk (  ). That being said if you're not adventurous then others have had success 
with Visual Studio 2005 implementation.. takes a bit of work, but like I said, 
if you'


http://silverlight.net/forums/t/370.aspx


2)  You can download Blend 2.0 (May Preview) , this can be a dual install 
in that it won't impact on Blend 1.0 (I have had both running aok). You can 
download this via 
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=88925fc5-b395-4911-9a02-9fdd80cea564&displaylang=en

I love everything about this list ;P


--
Scott Barnes
(Developer Evangelist)

Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184 
(New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 11:05 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Exception Handling

This list is great, looking forward to getting into some Silverlight.

Just found there doesn't seem to be any addon tools for VS2005 for 
Silverlight... and the Blend I have installed (1.0.1x) doesn't either. dang I 
was going to do some playing tonight.

Cheers,
Stephen

On 7/27/07, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

Hi Adam,



This will change in future versions but yeah, the exception inside C# will 
basically sit there and stare blankly at you unless you code-step your way 
through it. You can catch this yourself and bake your own debugger via 
[Scriptable] style routing, but at present unhandled exceptions can be 
cumbersome to catch natively.



The documentation at the moment refers to JavaScript approach to Silverlight 
(where as you are looking for C#). This will obviously change as future 
versions progress.







--

Scott Barnes
(Developer Evangelist)

Microsoft Pty <http://www.microsoft.com/australia>  | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030  | Mobile: 0439-072-184 
( New!)

Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Adam Webber
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 10:51 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com>
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Exception Handling



Hi,

When an (unhandled) exception occurs in say the Page.xaml.cs (code behind), the 
exception 'disappears' or is swallowed, and the browser just sits there.

Is this expected behaviour?

Doco talks about the onError handler for Sys.Silverlight.createObject, but this 
is not being reached when code-behind exceptions occur.

Does anyone have any insight into this?  How can I trap unhandled code-behind 
exceptions at some global level and then handle them gracefully from a browser 
perspective?

Cheers,

Adam.
--- 
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RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Exception Handling

[Scott Barnes]

Also you can tell VS to break when exceptions are thrown (ie when debugging) 
(sorry forgot that one).

--
Scott Barnes
(Developer Evangelist)

Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184 
(New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 10:59 PM
To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com
Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Exception Handling

Hi Adam,

This will change in future versions but yeah, the exception inside C# will 
basically sit there and stare blankly at you unless you code-step your way 
through it. You can catch this yourself and bake your own debugger via 
[Scriptable] style routing, but at present unhandled exceptions can be 
cumbersome to catch natively.

The documentation at the moment refers to JavaScript approach to Silverlight 
(where as you are looking for C#). This will obviously change as future 
versions progress.



--
Scott Barnes
(Developer Evangelist)
Microsoft Pty<http://www.microsoft.com/australia> | Blog: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184 
(New!)
Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Webber
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 10:51 PM
To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
Subject: [OzSilverlight] Silverlight Exception Handling

Hi,

When an (unhandled) exception occurs in say the Page.xaml.cs (code behind), the 
exception 'disappears' or is swallowed, and the browser just sits there.

Is this expected behaviour?

Doco talks about the onError handler for Sys.Silverlight.createObject, but this 
is not being reached when code-behind exceptions occur.

Does anyone have any insight into this?  How can I trap unhandled code-behind 
exceptions at some global level and then handle them gracefully from a browser 
perspective?

Cheers,

Adam.
--- 
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list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject.
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