RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
At 02:14 PM 12/14/2003 +1100, Paul Smith wrote: I am still new to all the 'legals' side of things, and how PMC's work etc. If a sister project was unable, or unwilling to donate the code base to Apache and come under the Apache umbrella, I would still recommend that they have a role within the Logging Service PMC. Would this work? I guess I would like to see the Logging Service have a more formal relationship with the rest of the logging communtity and having them a part of the PMC seems to be right thing to do. Letting members of projects which are unwilling or unable to join the Apache Logging Services project to still play a role in the PMC is a great idea. This could be encouraged by allowing such projects to participate in the PMC discussions as observers. -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
Hi, my vote, +1 for the projet update+1 for Ceki to be the first chairman. Regards, Guillaume Moulard [EMAIL PROTECTED]Project : LOG4PLSQL : Oracle Database Loggin toolssee : http://log4plsql.sourceforge.net/ Hello, Several months ago I floated the idea of creating a top level project covering logging services. The idea was received favorably. Moreover, we currently have or shortly will have inter-operability with the following log4j sister projects: * Log4Perl * Log4Net * Log4Cxx (c++) * Log4CPlus * Log4PHP * JDK1.4's util.logging framework I would like propose to the board the creation of the Apache Logging Services top level project. Here is an initial draft of the resolution to be submitted to the board http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?LoggingApacheOrg/BoardResoluionDo we want to do this? I do and here is my +1.[X] +1, let's do it[ ] 0, I don't know[ ] -1, no, that's a bad idea because:...Ceki GülcüFor log4j documentation consider "The complete log4j manual"ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail
RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
Hi, +1 for me ! -- Michael CATANZARITI, Log4cxx Administrator (http://log4cxx.sf.net) -Original Message- From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 7:07 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project Hello, Several months ago I floated the idea of creating a top level project covering logging services. The idea was received favorably. Moreover, we currently have or shortly will have inter-operability with the following log4j sister projects: * Log4Perl * Log4Net * Log4Cxx (c++) * Log4CPlus * Log4PHP * JDK1.4's util.logging framework I would like propose to the board the creation of the Apache Logging Services top level project. Here is an initial draft of the resolution to be submitted to the board http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?LoggingApacheOrg/BoardResoluion Do we want to do this? I do and here is my +1. [X] +1, let's do it [ ] 0, I don't know [ ] -1, no, that's a bad idea because:... -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
Thanks Paul. I would be honored to serve as the chairman for Logging Services project. Let us wait to see whether my candidacy is endorsed by the other committers and whether there are other candidates. At 02:21 PM 12/14/2003 +1100, Paul Smith wrote: Oh, and as for the potential Chairman, I would like to nominate Ceki, if you are interested in taking on the role. -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
Howdy, Seems like the natural choice ;) +1. Yoav Shapira Millennium ChemInformatics -Original Message- From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 8:55 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project Thanks Paul. I would be honored to serve as the chairman for Logging Services project. Let us wait to see whether my candidacy is endorsed by the other committers and whether there are other candidates. At 02:21 PM 12/14/2003 +1100, Paul Smith wrote: Oh, and as for the potential Chairman, I would like to nominate Ceki, if you are interested in taking on the role. -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
+1 -Original Message- From: Shapira, Yoav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 7:49 AM To: Log4J Developers List Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project Howdy, Seems like the natural choice ;) +1. Yoav Shapira Millennium ChemInformatics -Original Message- From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 8:55 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project Thanks Paul. I would be honored to serve as the chairman for Logging Services project. Let us wait to see whether my candidacy is endorsed by the other committers and whether there are other candidates. At 02:21 PM 12/14/2003 +1100, Paul Smith wrote: Oh, and as for the potential Chairman, I would like to nominate Ceki, if you are interested in taking on the role. -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
Thanks Scott. The only active committer we are missing is Jacob. (Mark is away this week.) I'll take the liberty to update the wiki page of the proposal. At 09:44 AM 12/15/2003 -0800, Scott Deboy wrote: +1 -Original Message- From: Shapira, Yoav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 7:49 AM To: Log4J Developers List Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project Howdy, Seems like the natural choice ;) +1. Yoav Shapira Millennium ChemInformatics -Original Message- From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 8:55 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project Thanks Paul. I would be honored to serve as the chairman for Logging Services project. Let us wait to see whether my candidacy is endorsed by the other committers and whether there are other candidates. -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
+1 for Ceki to be chairman. Jake Quoting Ceki Gülcü [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thanks Scott. The only active committer we are missing is Jacob. (Mark is away this week.) I'll take the liberty to update the wiki page of the proposal. At 09:44 AM 12/15/2003 -0800, Scott Deboy wrote: +1 -Original Message- From: Shapira, Yoav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 7:49 AM To: Log4J Developers List Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project Howdy, Seems like the natural choice ;) +1. Yoav Shapira Millennium ChemInformatics -Original Message- From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 8:55 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project Thanks Paul. I would be honored to serve as the chairman for Logging Services project. Let us wait to see whether my candidacy is endorsed by the other committers and whether there are other candidates. -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
Subject to any new last minute developments, I'll submit the proposal this Friday. -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
Hi, I'm the developer and maintainer of a log4j sister project: Log4PHP. After reading the initial draft and ml comments I give my +1 to the LS project. Since log4php is a pure port of log4j it's not a problem for me to change the license. However, I have some questions: 1. The draft talks about the migration and rationalization of the log4j sister projects. Can the PMC explain in detail the roadmap of the migration and what is the exact meaning of rationalization (finding a common api, a common design, a common ...)? 2. Will the Log4* sister projects be structured as LS subprjs (LS/log4*) or as log4j subprjs (LS/Log4j/Log4*) ? - Marco Log4php project maintainer -Original Message- From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:07 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project Hello, Several months ago I floated the idea of creating a top level project covering logging services. The idea was received favorably. Moreover, we currently have or shortly will have inter-operability with the following log4j sister projects: * Log4Perl * Log4Net * Log4Cxx (c++) * Log4CPlus * Log4PHP * JDK1.4's util.logging framework I would like propose to the board the creation of the Apache Logging Services top level project. Here is an initial draft of the resolution to be submitted to the board http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?LoggingApacheOrg/BoardResoluio n Do we want to do this? I do and here is my +1. [X] +1, let's do it [ ] 0, I don't know [ ] -1, no, that's a bad idea because:... -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
Hi Marco, At 08:15 PM 12/15/2003 +0100, you wrote: Hi, I'm the developer and maintainer of a log4j sister project: Log4PHP. After reading the initial draft and ml comments I give my +1 to the LS project. Since log4php is a pure port of log4j it's not a problem for me to change the license. Very good. However, I have some questions: 1. The draft talks about the migration and rationalization of the log4j sister projects. Can the PMC explain in detail the roadmap of the migration and what is the exact meaning of rationalization (finding a common api, a common design, a common ...)? I changed the word 'rationalization' to 'integration'. I think the term 'integration' would mean at least inter-operability but I can't give you an exact meaning. We have to come up with a meaning together. There is no desire to impose an API on a sub-project. Sub-projects will retain much if not all of their existing freedom. 2. Will the Log4* sister projects be structured as LS subprjs (LS/log4*) or as log4j subprjs (LS/Log4j/Log4*) ? Log4j will be a sub-project of LS. So here is a possible hierarchy: LS/Log4j LS/log4php LS/log4cxx Does this answer your question? - Marco Log4php project maintainer -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
Hi all, +1 on behalf of log4net. Interoperability with log4j is something we have been working towards for some time now. We have it for some protocols, but not for others. A single apache PMC seems the best way to achieve this. Log4net is already Apache licensed so that is not an issue. Also +1 for Ceki to be the first chairman. Nicko - log4net dev (http://log4net.sf.net) -Original Message- From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11 December 2003 15:07 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project Hello, Several months ago I floated the idea of creating a top level project covering logging services. The idea was received favorably. Moreover, we currently have or shortly will have inter-operability with the following log4j sister projects: * Log4Perl * Log4Net * Log4Cxx (c++) * Log4CPlus * Log4PHP * JDK1.4's util.logging framework I would like propose to the board the creation of the Apache Logging Services top level project. Here is an initial draft of the resolution to be submitted to the board http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?LoggingApacheOrg/ BoardResoluion Do we want to do this? I do and here is my +1. [X] +1, let's do it [ ] 0, I don't know [ ] -1, no, that's a bad idea because:... -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
robert burrell donkin wrote: On 12 Dec 2003, at 10:04, Ceki Gülcü wrote: FWIW the Log interface seems about right. i'd probably now go for a truly minimal API (two public classes) with private classes providing a truly base implementation (log error and fatal to standard error). a single system property or a properties file in the classpath would allow a user to provide an implementation of the actual bridge selection logic. a second jar (containing a properties file specifying the default implementation) would contain all implementations including a bridge selection logic unit that would function correctly in web application environments (by providing isolation per-context-classloader). alternative bridge selection logic units would be provided for other environments. Robert: I know that this is sort of off-topic but on the otherhand its dead on topic (depending on the point of view) ... over the last couple of months a bit of collaboration between the new Directory project and the Avalon team has generated something very close to what your are describing above - in particular a bootstrapping system, property driven, small and tight. We are currently using this to bootstrap remote repository management, component management systems, or any facility you want - and on on my roadmap is pushing out logging into another bootable item. The stuff we have been doing is documented here: http://avalon.apache.org/repository Cheers, Steve. - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
On 12 Dec 2003, at 10:04, Ceki Gülcü wrote: snip As for a better commons-logger, I think any bridging API which is *simpler* will result in a net gain. However, my experience also tells me that abstracting independent APIs performing similar tasks is a major undertaking, much more arduous than one would initially suspect. +1 minimal bridging APIs are difficult. commons-logging is both too large and too unsophisticated. creating minimal but sophisticated code which will work effectively in the many different environments in which java library code is deployed is very non-trivial. AFAIK none of the people who have worked on commons-logging are satisfied with the current results but IMHO the major mistake we made was to underestimate the complexity of the task. (before people jump to the conclusion that this is just the voice of inexperience, commons-logging did have contributions from some of the most respected coders in jakarta - even ceki added some words of wisdom to the discussions ;) FWIW the Log interface seems about right. i'd probably now go for a truly minimal API (two public classes) with private classes providing a truly base implementation (log error and fatal to standard error). a single system property or a properties file in the classpath would allow a user to provide an implementation of the actual bridge selection logic. a second jar (containing a properties file specifying the default implementation) would contain all implementations including a bridge selection logic unit that would function correctly in web application environments (by providing isolation per-context-classloader). alternative bridge selection logic units would be provided for other environments. - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
I am still new to all the 'legals' side of things, and how PMC's work etc. If a sister project was unable, or unwilling to donate the code base to Apache and come under the Apache umbrella, I would still recommend that they have a role within the Logging Service PMC. Would this work? I guess I would like to see the Logging Service have a more formal relationship with the rest of the logging communtity and having them a part of the PMC seems to be right thing to do. Regardless, I think that that a TLP will provide more benifits to the log4j project, and I do believe that we have a community to sustain it. You have my +1, sorry for the delay. cheer, Paul Smith -Original Message- From: Ceki Gülcü To: Log4J Developers List Sent: 12/12/03 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project At 08:00 AM 12/12/2003 +1100, Paul Smith wrote: Could I ask when would this proposal be submitted to the board? I'd like to submit it as soon as we have the OK of the log4j-dev committers. We also need to decide who the chairman for Logging Services PMC will be. Any volunteers? I would also dearly hope that as many of the sister projects as possible would join us to form a real logging community. That is my wish as well. However, we cannot force anyone to join us. We can only create a favorable environment where sister projects wishing to join Apache can do so. I'd be inclined to withhold my vote until a feel for the reception of the idea has been gathered from the sister projects. But generally I am in favour of a sound and thriving Logging Service community that can work together on a common vision. Is their a time limit on this vote? No, there is no time limit although these things tend to wane if not actively pushed along. Please feel free to withhold your vote as long as you feel that your concerns have not been properly addressed. cheers, Paul Smith -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
Oh, and as for the potential Chairman, I would like to nominate Ceki, if you are interested in taking on the role. -Original Message- From: Ceki Gülcü To: Log4J Developers List Sent: 12/12/03 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project At 08:00 AM 12/12/2003 +1100, Paul Smith wrote: Could I ask when would this proposal be submitted to the board? I'd like to submit it as soon as we have the OK of the log4j-dev committers. We also need to decide who the chairman for Logging Services PMC will be. Any volunteers? I would also dearly hope that as many of the sister projects as possible would join us to form a real logging community. That is my wish as well. However, we cannot force anyone to join us. We can only create a favorable environment where sister projects wishing to join Apache can do so. I'd be inclined to withhold my vote until a feel for the reception of the idea has been gathered from the sister projects. But generally I am in favour of a sound and thriving Logging Service community that can work together on a common vision. Is their a time limit on this vote? No, there is no time limit although these things tend to wane if not actively pushed along. Please feel free to withhold your vote as long as you feel that your concerns have not been properly addressed. cheers, Paul Smith -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
At 01:03 PM 12/11/2003 -0800, Mark Womack wrote: Sorry for the delay and my general absence from the discussions. Things are still crazy here at work. +1 My comments on the subject: 1) If the sister projects decide to not particpate, then I think the need/momentum for this TLP dissipates. So, their support is key, in my mind. I think that the work and evangelization that Scott and others have been doing is great, and I would like to see it all come together under a TLP umbrella. I would like to see members from these other projects as part of the final proposal. I don't know what the implications are for licenses or if the sister projects are required to change licenses, etc. Scott has indeed been doing a really outstanding job. Thank you, Scott! The question of licenses is an important one. The ASF has rather strict rules about licenses, as it should. All the code distributed by the ASF is done under the Apache Software license. I know of no exceptions to this rule. Negotiating and changing the licensing terms take time. Thus, while the inclusion of sister project is an important goal, we should not hinge the Logging Services proposal on the acceptance of such and such sister project. Sister project are most most welcome to join but they are not absolutely necessary for the creation of the Logging Services project. 2) I personally see this as a great way to take out commons-logging with something that is (maybe) less controversial, better implemented, and has a richer set of features. Exactly what form it will take and whether the community at-large accepts it is a different question. But I think it would be within the bounds of this TLP. Although there are compelling reasons for using commons-logging, I believe that we do not need to take it out. Given the tremendous complexity it brings to the game, it will end up taking out itself without our help. It is just a matter of time. The unsuspecting people who favor commons-logging do so because it looks good on paper. However, once they are bitten by it, they are bitten so hard and so painfully that their perception changes forever. Some become ardent opponents of commons-logging, some just use log4j, and others JDK 1.4 logging. As for a better commons-logger, I think any bridging API which is *simpler* will result in a net gain. However, my experience also tells me that abstracting independent APIs performing similar tasks is a major undertaking, much more arduous than one would initially suspect. Of course, everyone listed in the proposal realizes that there will be added responsibilites being a PLC member, right? You'll be moving up the Apache chain of command, so to speak. This will be a new PLC, so we'll be setting up shop, setting the project standards, etc. I think it is great and I am looking forward to working with everyone on it. Well, being TLP will require more formalism, which is not a panacea in itself to say the least. -Mark -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
At 08:00 AM 12/12/2003 +1100, Paul Smith wrote: Could I ask when would this proposal be submitted to the board? I'd like to submit it as soon as we have the OK of the log4j-dev committers. We also need to decide who the chairman for Logging Services PMC will be. Any volunteers? I would also dearly hope that as many of the sister projects as possible would join us to form a real logging community. That is my wish as well. However, we cannot force anyone to join us. We can only create a favorable environment where sister projects wishing to join Apache can do so. I'd be inclined to withhold my vote until a feel for the reception of the idea has been gathered from the sister projects. But generally I am in favour of a sound and thriving Logging Service community that can work together on a common vision. Is their a time limit on this vote? No, there is no time limit although these things tend to wane if not actively pushed along. Please feel free to withhold your vote as long as you feel that your concerns have not been properly addressed. cheers, Paul Smith -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
+1 BTW, can we add something in there about trashing commons-logging :-) Just kidding (but only a little bit). Jake Quoting Ceki Gülcü [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello, Several months ago I floated the idea of creating a top level project covering logging services. The idea was received favorably. Moreover, we currently have or shortly will have inter-operability with the following log4j sister projects: * Log4Perl * Log4Net * Log4Cxx (c++) * Log4CPlus * Log4PHP * JDK1.4's util.logging framework I would like propose to the board the creation of the Apache Logging Services top level project. Here is an initial draft of the resolution to be submitted to the board http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?LoggingApacheOrg/BoardResoluion Do we want to do this? I do and here is my +1. [X] +1, let's do it [ ] 0, I don't know [ ] -1, no, that's a bad idea because:... -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
Howdy, I have two questions before I vote ;) 1. Who is the Mr. Tobee that is mentioned on the draft proposal? 2. What about commons-logging? Yoav Shapira Millennium ChemInformatics -Original Message- From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:07 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project Hello, Several months ago I floated the idea of creating a top level project covering logging services. The idea was received favorably. Moreover, we currently have or shortly will have inter-operability with the following log4j sister projects: * Log4Perl * Log4Net * Log4Cxx (c++) * Log4CPlus * Log4PHP * JDK1.4's util.logging framework I would like propose to the board the creation of the Apache Logging Services top level project. Here is an initial draft of the resolution to be submitted to the board http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?LoggingApacheOrg/BoardResoluio n Do we want to do this? I do and here is my +1. [X] +1, let's do it [ ] 0, I don't know [ ] -1, no, that's a bad idea because:... -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
As a top-level Apache project, we will have to carefully study any proposal which is within the boundaries of our mission. So if commons-logging decides to join LS we will have to give an honest consideration to their proposal. The same applies if a member of the Logging Services PMC makes such a proposal. At 03:16 PM 12/11/2003 +, Jacob Kjome wrote: +1 BTW, can we add something in there about trashing commons-logging :-) Just kidding (but only a little bit). Jake Quoting Ceki Gülcü [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello, Several months ago I floated the idea of creating a top level project covering logging services. The idea was received favorably. Moreover, we currently have or shortly will have inter-operability with the following log4j sister projects: * Log4Perl * Log4Net * Log4Cxx (c++) * Log4CPlus * Log4PHP * JDK1.4's util.logging framework I would like propose to the board the creation of the Apache Logging Services top level project. Here is an initial draft of the resolution to be submitted to the board http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?LoggingApacheOrg/BoardResoluion Do we want to do this? I do and here is my +1. [X] +1, let's do it [ ] 0, I don't know [ ] -1, no, that's a bad idea because:... -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
At 10:09 AM 12/11/2003 -0500, you wrote: Howdy, I have two questions before I vote ;) 1. Who is the Mr. Tobee that is mentioned on the draft proposal? Mr. 'Tobee Determined' is yet to be determined. 2. What about commons-logging? See my previous message. Yoav Shapira Millennium ChemInformatics -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
Howdy, OK then ;) +0 from me. I think it's an interesting idea. To have consistent guidelines for logging in multiple languages would be nice. Yoav Shapira Millennium ChemInformatics -Original Message- From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:24 AM To: Log4J Developers List Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project At 10:09 AM 12/11/2003 -0500, you wrote: Howdy, I have two questions before I vote ;) 1. Who is the Mr. Tobee that is mentioned on the draft proposal? Mr. 'Tobee Determined' is yet to be determined. 2. What about commons-logging? See my previous message. Yoav Shapira Millennium ChemInformatics -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
Please feel free to contact any sister project you deem appropriate. If you do, you can mention that sister project will be treated on an equal footing, with proportional representation in the PMC. At 09:20 AM 12/11/2003 -0800, Scott Deboy wrote: +1 I'm curious to find out what the various sister projects think of joining. I'll forward on the message to the folks I've been working with. I think their willingness to join would be a factor in determining whether or not there's value in a top level project. Indeed, and several projects expressed their willingness. Before pursuing this any further, I would like to make sure that there is consensus among the log4j developers first. We still need the go ahead of the other committers, in particular Mark and Paul. -- Ceki Gülcü For log4j documentation consider The complete log4j manual ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
Could I ask when would this proposal be submitted to the board? I would also dearly hope that as many of the sister projects as possible would join us to form a real logging community. I'd be inclined to withhold my vote until a feel for the reception of the idea has been gathered from the sister projects. But generally I am in favour of a sound and thriving Logging Service community that can work together on a common vision. Is their a time limit on this vote? cheers, Paul Smith - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project
Sorry for the delay and my general absence from the discussions. Things are still crazy here at work. +1 My comments on the subject: 1) If the sister projects decide to not particpate, then I think the need/momentum for this TLP dissipates. So, their support is key, in my mind. I think that the work and evangelization that Scott and others have been doing is great, and I would like to see it all come together under a TLP umbrella. I would like to see members from these other projects as part of the final proposal. I don't know what the implications are for licenses or if the sister projects are required to change licenses, etc. 2) I personally see this as a great way to take out commons-logging with something that is (maybe) less controversial, better implemented, and has a richer set of features. Exactly what form it will take and whether the community at-large accepts it is a different question. But I think it would be within the bounds of this TLP. Of course, everyone listed in the proposal realizes that there will be added responsibilites being a PLC member, right? You'll be moving up the Apache chain of command, so to speak. This will be a new PLC, so we'll be setting up shop, setting the project standards, etc. I think it is great and I am looking forward to working with everyone on it. -Mark -Original Message- From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 7:07 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PROPOSAL] Logging services top level project Hello, Several months ago I floated the idea of creating a top level project covering logging services. The idea was received favorably. Moreover, we currently have or shortly will have inter-operability with the following log4j sister projects: * Log4Perl * Log4Net * Log4Cxx (c++) * Log4CPlus * Log4PHP * JDK1.4's util.logging framework I would like propose to the board the creation of the Apache Logging Services top level project. Here is an initial draft of the resolution to be submitted to the board http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?LoggingApacheOrg/ BoardResoluion Do we want to do this? I do and here is my +1. [X] +1, let's do it [ ] 0, I don't know [ ] -1, no, that's a bad idea because:... -- Ceki Gülcü - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
