Re: Last Night
At Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:13:30 +, Matthew Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 04:38 27/02/01 -0500, you wrote: Oh, and I've had a quick look at Bleach.pm and Morse.pm and wish to raise a bug against Morse.pm. It doesn't actually convert stuff to Morse Code, just to something that _looks_ like Morse Code. Another bug, when a script gets bleached anything preceding the use Bleach gets lost. #!/usr/bin/perl use Bleach; becomes use Bleach; This is probably not a good thing. I wonder if this has anything to do with MacPerl not needing the shebang line? Dave...
Re: Overheard on IRC
On 27/02/2001 at 10:46 +, Simon Wistow wrote: ALL YOUR DCONWAY ARE BELONG TO US My more idiomatic expression of Aaron's 'All your Damien Conway are belong to us'. (Using the CPAN ID was natural; hmm, maybe in the next weekly summary...) yet another t-shirt idea methinks as is Jonathon Stowe's ALL YOUR BASE CLASSES ARE BELONG TO US (although I'd s/ES\b//; to make it sound more Engrish.) Also, after seeing Fight Club again on Friday: Front: You are not your email address Back : You are not your irc nick Alternative: You are not your login (doesn't work as well, I reckon; maybe 'you are not your shell accounts'?). -- :: paul :: join us in creating excellence
Re: Last Night
Dominic Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 04:38:49AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: p.s. And don't get me started on my nightmare journey. I thought that all night buses went thru Trafalgar Sq - the N19 doesn't :( Ugh. At least I got on the right end of the train and ended upin Brighton... I think that connex just split the trains in two just to confuse people. :-( Well, I got home at 3am. Just missed the ~2200 train and the next one was at 2325. And you can't go to sleep on a train when you're getting off halfway through the journey... -- Piers
Re: Overheard on IRC
ALL YOUR DCONWAY ARE BELONG TO US yet another t-shirt idea methinks Simon [realising in the process that no-one ever suggested a t-shirt that said 'yet another t-shirt'] Do it Do it now!! :-) Neil. (2 x as big as you can get please) -- Neil C. Ford Yet Another Computer Solutions Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Last Night
At 05:29 27/02/01 -0500, you wrote: At Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:13:30 +, Matthew Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 04:38 27/02/01 -0500, you wrote: Oh, and I've had a quick look at Bleach.pm and Morse.pm and wish to raise a bug against Morse.pm. It doesn't actually convert stuff to Morse Code, just to something that _looks_ like Morse Code. Another bug, when a script gets bleached anything preceding the use Bleach gets lost. #!/usr/bin/perl use Bleach; becomes use Bleach; This is probably not a good thing. I wonder if this has anything to do with MacPerl not needing the shebang line? I came to the same conclusion about MacPerl. It was a simple fix. Dave...
Re: Overheard on IRC
On or about Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 10:46:18AM +, Simon Wistow typed: yet another t-shirt idea methinks any(@londonpm) R
Re: Last Night
At Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:58:55 +, Matthew Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 05:29 27/02/01 -0500, you wrote: At Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:13:30 +, Matthew Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 04:38 27/02/01 -0500, you wrote: Oh, and I've had a quick look at Bleach.pm and Morse.pm and wish to raise a bug against Morse.pm. It doesn't actually convert stuff to Morse Code, just to something that _looks_ like Morse Code. Another bug, when a script gets bleached anything preceding the use Bleach gets lost. #!/usr/bin/perl use Bleach; becomes use Bleach; This is probably not a good thing. I wonder if this has anything to do with MacPerl not needing the shebang line? I came to the same conclusion about MacPerl. It was a simple fix. You will, of course, be submitting the patch to the author (who lurks on this list and will be expecting it :) Dave...
Re: Overheard on IRC
Remind me, what channel do we gather in? -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: Last Night
At 06:10 27/02/01 -0500, you wrote: At Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:58:55 +, Matthew Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 05:29 27/02/01 -0500, you wrote: At Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:13:30 +, Matthew Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 04:38 27/02/01 -0500, you wrote: Oh, and I've had a quick look at Bleach.pm and Morse.pm and wish to raise a bug against Morse.pm. It doesn't actually convert stuff to Morse Code, just to something that _looks_ like Morse Code. Another bug, when a script gets bleached anything preceding the use Bleach gets lost. #!/usr/bin/perl use Bleach; becomes use Bleach; This is probably not a good thing. I wonder if this has anything to do with MacPerl not needing the shebang line? I came to the same conclusion about MacPerl. It was a simple fix. You will, of course, be submitting the patch to the author (who lurks on this list and will be expecting it :) Dave... It has already gone... Matt
Re: Overheard on IRC
Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Remind me, what channel do we gather in? never mind, i got it -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: Overheard on IRC
On or about Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 10:46:18AM +, Simon Wistow typed: yet another t-shirt idea methinks any(@londonpm) R One wonders if we should just use some of Simon's designs to pay for the camel? Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Yet Another Computer Solutions Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
lvalue subroutines
Hi,
Given the following lvalue subroutine
sub mysub : lvalue {
$value;
}
is there any way for mysub() to be able to determine that it
was called in an lvalue context?
Ian (New face on london-pm: usually wears an over-the-top suit.)
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geek football
As an American in the audience of Quantum::Superpositions last night I have one question. What in the world is a 'geek football pool'? _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: geek football
At Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:54:15 -, "Hamlet D'Arcy" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As an American in the audience of Quantum::Superpositions last night I have one question. What in the world is a 'geek football pool'? This article may help: http://www.perl.com/pub/2000/10/footpool.html Dave...
Re: geek football
On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Hamlet D'Arcy wrote: As an American in the audience of Quantum::Superpositions last night I have one question. What in the world is a 'geek football pool'? Geek: That would be us I guess!! Football: You probably know it as soccer. Pool: A list of games being played on a particular day that you can bet on the outcome. HTH Andy
Re: lvalue subroutines
"Ian Brayshaw" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hi,
Given the following lvalue subroutine
sub mysub : lvalue {
$value;
}
is there any way for mysub() to be able to determine that it
was called in an lvalue context?
No. If you need to know that sort of thing, you kind of have to tie
the $value that you're going to return, and use that as a proxy for
the *actual* value. If you're called in an lvalue context then the
tied object is going to have its STORE method called...
--
Piers
geek cricket
reading the posts on geek football reminded me of an old but good idea that , to my knowledge , has not been put into practice but probably should . Would anyone be interested in setting up a cricket league amongst 'internet' companies in london . Each company would have a team (or combine to make teams) and play 40 over matches on sunday afternoons in some sort of league . Does this appeal to anyone ? gambling is optional . Toodle-pip Amias
Re: geek cricket
On or about Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 12:29:19PM +, Amias Channer typed: Each company would have a team (or combine to make teams) and play 40 over matches on sunday afternoons in some sort of league . Does this appeal to anyone ? gambling is optional . You mean... actual physical exertion? Heretic! R
Re: Do what I mean!
On Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 12:22:17PM +, Matthew Robinson wrote: use constant time; Obviously, the constant module would have to be overloaded to allow this along with a few tweaks to the core. s/core/universe/ but hey, what's mere reality between friends? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important ** PGP signature
Re: lvalue subroutines
Ian Brayshaw" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hi,
Given the following lvalue subroutine
sub mysub : lvalue {
$value;
}
is there any way for mysub() to be able to determine that it
was called in an lvalue context?
No. If you need to know that sort of thing, you kind of have to tie
the $value that you're going to return, and use that as a proxy for
the *actual* value. If you're called in an lvalue context then the tied
object is going to have its STORE method called...
--
Piers
Thanks.
I'm new to the discussion of Perl6, so are there any discussions around
providing operators such as wantlvalue and wantvoid
to perform similar queries to wantarray?
Ian
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Re: Last Night
Morse Code, just to something that _looks_ like Morse Code. I'm glad you said that cos when I was in the audience I couldn't match up what I saw with what the program was (although I only got as far as character 3 so assumed there was some kind of preamble). Mind you, I only do 15-20wpm aural, barely 1wpm visual.
Re: geek cricket
* at 27/02 12:33 + Roger Burton West said: On or about Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 12:29:19PM +, Amias Channer typed: Each company would have a team (or combine to make teams) and play 40 over matches on sunday afternoons in some sort of league . Does this appeal to anyone ? gambling is optional . You mean... actual physical exertion? maybe he means pub cricket. struan
Re: Do what I mean!
Matthew Robinson wrote: With respect to Quantum::Superpositions and in the spirit of 'Do what I mean' I think we should be able to write any script and place the following pragma in the header. use constant time; Obviously, the constant module would have to be overloaded to allow this along with a few tweaks to the core. A *few* tweaks to the core? Come on now, you'd have to make the core grok multiple dimensions! (... and that would be about as easy as building an infinite improbrability drive...) But I suppose you might argue that the core already _spans_ multiple dimensions (everything does, until you look at it), so it wouldn't relly need to understand this to make use of it. So maybe it would just be a matter of trying (eg: observing) it and seeing if it works? Well, I did, and I got this error: % perl -e 'use constant time;' Can't define "983277222" as constant (name contains invalid characters or is empty) at -e line 1 BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at -e line 1. I concluded that while it must work in some universe, it isn't ours. regards, -- Steve Purkis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unix Developer www.redhotchilli.com
RE: geek cricket
On or about Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 12:29:19PM +, Amias Channer typed: Each company would have a team (or combine to make teams) and play 40 over matches on sunday afternoons in some sort of league . Does this appeal to anyone ? gambling is optional . You mean... actual physical exertion? You mean... there are enough internet companies left in London to form a cricket league? :)
Re: Do what I mean!
At 12:42 27/02/01 +, you wrote: Matthew Robinson wrote: With respect to Quantum::Superpositions and in the spirit of 'Do what I mean' I think we should be able to write any script and place the following pragma in the header. use constant time; Obviously, the constant module would have to be overloaded to allow this along with a few tweaks to the core. need to understand this to make use of it. So maybe it would just be a matter of trying (eg: observing) it and seeing if it works? Well, I did, and I got this error: % perl -e 'use constant time;' Can't define "983277222" as constant (name contains invalid characters or is empty) at -e line 1 BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at -e line 1. I concluded that while it must work in some universe, it isn't ours. I did say we would have to overload the constant pragma first. Matt
Re: lvalue subroutines
On Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 11:38:40PM +1100, Ian Brayshaw wrote: I'm new to the discussion of Perl6, so are there any discussions around providing operators such as wantlvalue and wantvoid to perform similar queries to wantarray? Yes. Damian has proposed http://dev.perl.org/rfc/21.html which seems sufficiently generic .robin. PS: You know that "wantvoid" is just !defined(wantarray()) ?
Re: geek football
Tuesday, February 27, 2001, 11:54:15 AM, Hamlet D'Arcy wrote: HDA As an American in the audience of Quantum::Superpositions last night I have HDA one question. HDA What in the world is a 'geek football pool'? Just be glad they didn't start playing "Slap the Yank". -- mike
Re: lvalue subroutines
Robin Houston wrote: On Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 11:38:40PM +1100, Ian Brayshaw wrote: I'm new to the discussion of Perl6, so are there any discussions around providing operators such as wantlvalue and wantvoid to perform similar queries to wantarray? Yes. Damian has proposed http://dev.perl.org/rfc/21.html which seems sufficiently generic Cool. PS: You know that "wantvoid" is just !defined(wantarray()) ? ah, yes, RTFM... Ian _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Re: lvalue subroutines
On Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 10:50:26PM +1100, Ian Brayshaw wrote:
Given the following lvalue subroutine
sub mysub : lvalue {
$value;
}
is there any way for mysub() to be able to determine that it
was called in an lvalue context?
Yeah there is, but you're not going to like it :-)
.robin.
use v5.6;
use Inline C = NOMO;
U8 wantlvalue ()
{
return cxstack[cxstack_ix].blk_sub.lval;
}
NOMO
sub foo :lvalue {
print (wantlvalue() ? "lvaluably\n" : "rvaluably\n");
my $foo
}
foo();
foo() = 23;
Re: geek football
Mike Jarvis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tuesday, February 27, 2001, 11:54:15 AM, Hamlet D'Arcy wrote: HDA As an American in the audience of Quantum::Superpositions last night I have HDA one question. HDA What in the world is a 'geek football pool'? Just be glad they didn't start playing "Slap the Yank". He was out of reach. -- Piers
Re: Do what I mean!
Steve Purkis wrote: A *few* tweaks to the core? Come on now, you'd have to make the core grok multiple dimensions! (... and that would be about as easy as building an infinite improbrability drive...) We can reason that there is a Perl Core that spans multiple dimensions so there must be a finite probability that there is one. Somewhere. Possibly in a galaxy, far far away. So we sit Larry down infront of 8uffy, feed him a really good, strong cup of tea and voila - Perl 6 complete with 'use constant time;' and full DWIM engine.
Re: lvalue subroutines
Robin Houston [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 10:50:26PM +1100, Ian Brayshaw wrote:
Given the following lvalue subroutine
sub mysub : lvalue {
$value;
}
is there any way for mysub() to be able to determine that it
was called in an lvalue context?
Yeah there is, but you're not going to like it :-)
Oh! Yes! Baby!!!
That's almost as good as ()^0.5.
--
Piers, who confesses that he did find himself wondering what (-)^0.5
would do (that's 'square root of - not' BTW)
Re: lvalue subroutines
On Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 01:46:49PM +, Piers Cawley wrote: That's almost as good as ()^0.5. I was thinking about that on the way to work. AIUI, square roots apply to numbers, so how can you have a square root of something that isn't a number, like an operator? You may as well say that you can take the square root of anything - like the square root of equals, or the square root of a pony. Calling that thing the square root of an operator is a bit misleading to say the least. OK, it may appear to have some properties of a square root operation, but a square root it ain't. YMMV, cos IANAQM (but it would be helpful in debugging landrovers) -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important ** PGP signature
Re: lvalue subroutines
On Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 10:50:26PM +1100, Ian Brayshaw wrote:
Given the following lvalue subroutine
sub mysub : lvalue {
$value;
}
is there any way for mysub() to be able to determine that it
was called in an lvalue context?
Yeah there is, but you're not going to like it :-)
... omitted for sanity ...
Thank goodness for TMTOWTDI (i.e. if in doubt, rewrite the problem)
Cheers.
_
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
RE: geek football
From: Mike Jarvis [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Just be glad they didn't start playing "Slap the Yank". You mean like the Polizei that you mentioned during our happy sojourn in The Bunker at ebookers? Those were the days :-) (The Bunker, not the Polizei!). Andrew.
Re: lvalue subroutines
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: AIUI, square roots apply to numbers, so how can you have a square root of something that isn't a number, like an operator? You may as well say that you can take the square root of anything - like the square root of equals, or the square root of a pony. I think sqrt(not) only works because it cancels itself out much the same as sqrt(-1) does. Other things don't have the toggle-nature, so wouldn't make sense. -- rob partington % [EMAIL PROTECTED] % http://lynx.browser.org/
Re: lvalue subroutines
David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 01:46:49PM +, Piers Cawley wrote: That's almost as good as ()^0.5. I was thinking about that on the way to work. AIUI, square roots apply to numbers, so how can you have a square root of something that isn't a number, like an operator? You may as well say that you can take the square root of anything - like the square root of equals, or the square root of a pony. Calling that thing the square root of an operator is a bit misleading to say the least. OK, it may appear to have some properties of a square root operation, but a square root it ain't. I have to disagree. Part of the power of mathematics comes from looking at something, seeing that it works like something else, proving that, and then continuing to call it something else because that then gives you all the stuff you know about the 'something else'. And 'square root' is just an operation on something. If you can meaningfully do that operation to something that isn't a number (and in the maths associated with QM, obviously, you can) then go for it. (I not that, in the slide, ()^0.5 is refered to as U_SRN. Presumably because the idea gives the mathematicians headaches too, so they hide it slightly behind another symbol) -- Piers
SRN (was: lvalue subroutines)
On Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 02:39:35PM +, Piers Cawley wrote: (I note that, in the slide, ()^0.5 is refered to as U_SRN. Presumably because the idea gives the mathematicians headaches too, so they hide it slightly behind another symbol) Apparently SRN stands for "Square Root of Not", so they're not hiding it too much. http://www.qtc.ecs.soton.ac.uk/lecture1/lecture1d.html is interesting. I agree about generalisation. I think it's perfectly reasonable to call such an operator the "square root of not" in context; as long as you understand that by the same definition, adding one is the "square root" of adding two ;-) .robin. -- "Do nine men interpret?" "Nine men," I nod.
Re: SRN (was: lvalue subroutines)
On Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 02:50:22PM +, Robin Houston wrote: http://www.qtc.ecs.soton.ac.uk/lecture1/lecture1d.html is interesting. My brain just started leaking out of my ears. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important ** PGP signature
Re: SRN (was: lvalue subroutines)
I've also found http://www.sigmaxi.org/amsci/issues/comsci95/compsci95-07.html "The Square Root of NOT" which seems to be a good non-experts introduction to *real* QC. .robin.
Re: Do what I mean!
Matthew Robinson wrote: I have now implemented the changes to the constant pragma module so that all scripts run in constant time (in fact they run instantaneously). You're ill. Get help.
Re: Do what I mean!
I remember him mentioning that there was an implementation of shor's algorithm in Quantum::Entanglement. On Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 04:47:42PM +, David Cantrell wrote: On Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 03:37:35PM +, Simon Wistow wrote: Matthew Robinson wrote: I have now implemented the changes to the constant pragma module so that all scripts run in constant time (in fact they run instantaneously). You're ill. Get help. I'm iller! I'm using Q::S in production code, cos it's easier to read than what I was doing previously. We'll see what a performance hit I get when I run it over a real dataset. A slightly related question - I remember Damian having a slide with his version of Shor's algorithm, which I can't find anywhere in the perldoc and which I can't for the life of me remember. I think at the time that my brain was trying to escape through my ears. Can anyone remember it? The only version I can find online is in the Q::E module, and it ain't what I remember. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important ** -- James A. Duncan W: www.fotango.com P: +44 207 251 7021 F: +44 207 608 3592 PGP signature
Quantum Weirdness
I just bought a Mars bar, and it's *drum roll* sixty-five grams! .robin.
Re: Quantum Weirdness
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Robin Houston [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I just bought a Mars bar, and it's *drum roll* sixty-five grams! They already did that on IRC! Keep up, that man! Tue1129#London.pm/Ranguard Arrg, Damion lied - British Mars bars weigh 65 g! not 60.. the Quarks must have put on weight! -- rob partington % [EMAIL PROTECTED] % http://lynx.browser.org/
Re: Quantum Weirdness
On Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 05:48:27PM +, Rob Partington wrote: They already did that on IRC! Keep up, that man! I'm trying to cut down on IRC. It's becoming too distracting. But you miss so much by not being there. robin irc+- .robin. -- "Do nine men interpret?" "Nine men," I nod.
Re: lvalue subroutines
On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Ian Brayshaw wrote:
Ian Brayshaw" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hi,
Given the following lvalue subroutine
sub mysub : lvalue {
$value;
}
is there any way for mysub() to be able to determine that it
was called in an lvalue context?
No. If you need to know that sort of thing, you kind of have to tie
the $value that you're going to return, and use that as a proxy for
the *actual* value. If you're called in an lvalue context then the tied
object is going to have its STORE method called...
I'm new to the discussion of Perl6, so are there any discussions around
providing operators such as wantlvalue and wantvoid
to perform similar queries to wantarray?
wantarray will tell you if you are in a void context - IIRC correctly it
returns undef in void context and 0 in scalar context I also recall there
being a little controversy over this recently in p5p ...
/J\
--
Jonathan Stowe |
http://www.gellyfish.com | I'm with Grep on this one
http://www.tackleway.co.uk |
