[LUTE] Re: Heretical Thinking vis a vis Lutes
As a not-so newby, and a perfoming luteplayer, I'm not interested in a modern version of a period instrument. I find I can hold my own in terms of volume in any group, especially if the rest plays on period instruments like I do. But even in a modern, and large!, orchestra I know what to do to be heard on my lutes with gut strings, and without nails. In my experience I can even be heard better than on modern strings and with nails. I did that, too, so I can compare. For me the key to understanding early music is a 'historically informed' instrument, strings and all. I strongly believe that with different tools, we'll get different results. A loud, high tension instruments will force an other interpretation upon the performer than a lightly build instrument with gut strings at a lower tension. I already notice that when performing the same piece on guitar or lute. What you describe is much like the so called Liuto Forte, I suppose. Have a look at http://www.liuto-forte.com/ David David van Ooijen Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Http://www.davidvanooijen.nl - Original Message - From: Rob Dorsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List Lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 11:00 PM Subject: [LUTE] Heretical Thinking vis a vis Lutes Hi All, Although new to the list, I'm going to put my foot into it and seek some feedback, very candid please, I'm a big boy and can take it. As I said in my opening post I'm a player of baroque lute, hoping to be called a competent amateur some day, and a hobby lute builder now turned pro. I've built a few lutes after my study with Bob Lundberg in Portland, 20 odd (and they were) years ago and have, from playing and building, come up with some strongly held beliefs. It these notions I'd like to share with this erudite company in hopes of guidance and good counsel. My fear is that the first response will be Somebody get a rope! but here goes: * Bob's lutes (of which I have two) were built exactly to historical specifications. This is understandable given his level of scholarship. However, the soundboard of my Dieffopruchar style, 76cm 13crs lute, from his hand has cracked 3 times and, using nylon trebles and modern wound basses, lives at an almost alarmingly high tension indicated by the bulge below the bridge and the standing wave in the upper soundboard even though I keep it a 415. Some with more experience than me have told me that that's ok and, so long as the top of the wave doesn't interfere with the strings (!) all is fine. That seems extreme to me so in my building I've sought to minimize those problems. None of my instruments have cracked. All the lutes I've bought from other builders have. H. A new acquaintance from this list is bringing me two lutes from his stable next week for repairs. Both have cracks in the soundboard below the bridge. I don't like cracks. * Playing in informal ensemble - baroque flute, gamba, tenor recorder, sometimes a baroque oboe and me on theorbo - led to a realization that it's darned hard to hear a lute, even a 140 theorbo, and you tend to form a habit of really bearing down to match the sound of the ensemble with the attendant loss of tone. Playing in solo recital with more than about 10 people was the same and Bob and I talked often about how to build a proper lute with a pickup hidden within the body. (We imagined a removable strap button on the butt of the lute with the amp plug underneath. You'd just thread the plug through the strap slit and plug it in. Very stealthy, what what?) But, failing that, you again find yourself, or at least myself, hammering the poor instrument or vastly exceeding the string size/tension in an attempt to be heard. This was particularly true when I used only gut trebles. Bottom line, I always felt the lute should project better and do it without taking on a strident tone. * Practically speaking we live in a synthetic world, string-wise. The thinnest nylons (.40 or smaller) on the longer mensurs get really thin sounding. Like all of us, I'm a busy person and just don't have time for the esoteric joys of gut anymore. I just went over to my 13crs Dieffopruchar and threw the strap around my neck. I hadn't played it since yesterday and it's still in tune. You gotta like that. So here's my fix for the above, served up as beliefs in action: 1. I build my lutes for a slightly higher tension than the historical model. They are braced for that tension and are intended to be played in either 415 or 440 at the musician's whim. That means that nylon strings and wound basses are right in. Additionally (another heresy) I like to play with just a bit of nail which gives the trebles a fighting chance against the big lute's majestic basses. Also, it seems to be getting harder and harder to find baroque flutes and recorders
[LUTE] Re: Mean tone temperament
Carbonchi's 'Lo dodici chitarre spostate' from 1643 (Florence) comes to mind. Imagine to strum a passacaglia with twelve guitars, all tuned one semitone apart with 12 different alfabeto chords at the same time. Comes close to 'garage revival rock'. But meantone? Best, L. Although Colonna's 25 little Passacalli are not quite a full complement of major and minor keys, they are pretty close to being so. They are followed by more Passacalli, where chords involving moveable shapes are used. It would seem that Colonna's aim is not so much to exploit the subtle differences arising from varying degrees of out-of-tune-ness, but rather to get the student guitarist to become familiar with all the alfabeto symbols. With this range of keys, I cannot imagine anything other than equal temperament being appropriate. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. - Original Message - From: Howard Posner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 11:57 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Mean tone temperament Stewart McCoy wrote: I can think of quite a bit of baroque guitar music which explores remote keys, and where equal temperament would have to be the order of the day. But it would not *have* to be anything of the sort, unless you assume that a composer writing in F-sharp major expected it to sound like C major a tritone higher. Some 17th-century keyboard pieces wander into distant keys, and no one who has looked into it suggests that this meant the keyboard was tempered equally. The natural assumption is that the explorations into keys outside the normal ones were supposed to sound weird and outlandish (indeed, weird and outlandish mean beyond familiar territory), making the return to comfortable C or G more pronounced and even dramatic. The urge to tame the distant keys by making the normal keys less in tune has a lot to do with 20th-century listening habits. HP To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Heretical Thinking vis a vis Lutes
I think the ability to be heard in large ensembles, whether modern or baroque lies in the style of playing and playing on a historically plausible instrument (e.g. large instruments as suggested by our good old Lynda Sayce). Having said that, Lynda is quite audible with her 1608 Tieffenbrucker in a recording I heard of one of her recordings with Charivari Agreable. You can tell that the whole ensemble is not miked up separately, as are some other groups. I suppose the question is whether it worth carrying that huge monster around! Also, don't beat yourself up if you are the only lute player in a huge orchestra, there are so many other instruments to drown you out. I am reminded of the group Le Concert Sprituel, who hires 3 (I think) plucked continuo players, and even so, you don't hear them that well. In a video recording of an opera I saw on the plane (believe it or not), in the loud sections, these theorbists and guitarists had to resort to a lot of strumming in an attempt to be heard. I think as theorbists, we should try our best to use the most suitable instrument and just play more notes, especially, diapasons, to fill the sound. If we constantly live in that register that most instruments can barely reach, surely we will be heard now and again. On 26/03/2006, at 4:07 PM, LGS-Europe wrote: As a not-so newby, and a perfoming luteplayer, I'm not interested in a modern version of a period instrument. I find I can hold my own in terms of volume in any group, especially if the rest plays on period instruments like I do. But even in a modern, and large!, orchestra I know what to do to be heard on my lutes with gut strings, and without nails. In my experience I can even be heard better than on modern strings and with nails. I did that, too, so I can compare. For me the key to understanding early music is a 'historically informed' instrument, strings and all. I strongly believe that with different tools, we'll get different results. A loud, high tension instruments will force an other interpretation upon the performer than a lightly build instrument with gut strings at a lower tension. I already notice that when performing the same piece on guitar or lute. What you describe is much like the so called Liuto Forte, I suppose. Have a look at http://www.liuto-forte.com/ David David van Ooijen Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Http://www.davidvanooijen.nl - Original Message - From: Rob Dorsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List Lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 11:00 PM Subject: [LUTE] Heretical Thinking vis a vis Lutes Hi All, Although new to the list, I'm going to put my foot into it and seek some feedback, very candid please, I'm a big boy and can take it. As I said in my opening post I'm a player of baroque lute, hoping to be called a competent amateur some day, and a hobby lute builder now turned pro. I've built a few lutes after my study with Bob Lundberg in Portland, 20 odd (and they were) years ago and have, from playing and building, come up with some strongly held beliefs. It these notions I'd like to share with this erudite company in hopes of guidance and good counsel. My fear is that the first response will be Somebody get a rope! but here goes: * Bob's lutes (of which I have two) were built exactly to historical specifications. This is understandable given his level of scholarship. However, the soundboard of my Dieffopruchar style, 76cm 13crs lute, from his hand has cracked 3 times and, using nylon trebles and modern wound basses, lives at an almost alarmingly high tension indicated by the bulge below the bridge and the standing wave in the upper soundboard even though I keep it a 415. Some with more experience than me have told me that that's ok and, so long as the top of the wave doesn't interfere with the strings (!) all is fine. That seems extreme to me so in my building I've sought to minimize those problems. None of my instruments have cracked. All the lutes I've bought from other builders have. H. A new acquaintance from this list is bringing me two lutes from his stable next week for repairs. Both have cracks in the soundboard below the bridge. I don't like cracks. * Playing in informal ensemble - baroque flute, gamba, tenor recorder, sometimes a baroque oboe and me on theorbo - led to a realization that it's darned hard to hear a lute, even a 140 theorbo, and you tend to form a habit of really bearing down to match the sound of the ensemble with the attendant loss of tone. Playing in solo recital with more than about 10 people was the same and Bob and I talked often about how to build a proper lute with a pickup hidden within the body. (We imagined a removable strap button on
[LUTE] Re: Can anyone provide some insight into this instrument for me?
Dear Chris, I think this lute dont look so good that I would buy it for a moment in which your daughter can play it. For me it looks a litle bit heavy and also the model I dont like for a 10-11 curse lute. Maybe you can see who made it. There are lutes from germany around the year 1970 who are realy heavy and more like guitars and you cant play it like a lute. For me it is looking a little bit like one of this lutes. Also I think that if your daugther loves the music there will be come the day in which she chooses a instrument she loves too. That will be a Instrument from which she probably is acompanied for the rest of her life and I think it would be a litle bit frustrating if she must play this lute who daddy once bought. Regards Daniel --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --- Von: Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: List Lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Can anyone provide some insight into this instrument for me? Datum: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:00:11 +0900 I have been advised by a total ignoramus about lutes that another person, who is also a total ignoramus about lutes, has one gathering dust at his place and would be willing to sell it for whatever would be a fair price. Since I know very little about lutes myself, I thought I should link the images here and ask for help in identifying the instrument and guesstimating what might be a fair price to offer for it (if anything). I do know that it looks nice in the pictures! (Doh!) This would be used by my daughter (age 13, 168-9cm, large hands) who is soon going to switch from piano (at which she is quite good) to lute, since she has been totally in love with Renaissance and baroque music for many years. I had been thinking of a smallish Renaissance lute with 7-8 courses for her to start with, and I suspect this instrument might be a bit of a stretch for her at first, but if it is worth buying and hanging on to at a certain price, I might make an offer. If it turns out to be less than ideal for her as a beginning instrument, we can continue the search for something better suited and save this instrument for when she reaches the right point in her development and needs it to play pieces for which a lute with fewer courses would be inappropriate . . . Here are the images; any helpful advice would be GREATLY appreciated. http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/4571/lute12wl.jpg http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5471/lute25tg.jpg http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7404/lute32gx.jpg Thanks! Chris Witmer Tokyo To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Feel free mit GMX FreeMail! Monat für Monat 10 FreeSMS inklusive! http://www.gmx.net
[LUTE] Re: Can anyone provide some insight into this instrument for me?
ARIA is a Japanese firm founded in Nagoya by Shiro Araisic in 1956. They make electric guitars, for the most part, and acoustic Dreadnoughts. No longer make lutes. --ajn - Original Message - From: Christopher Witmer To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:25 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Can anyone provide some insight into this instrument for me? Thanks to the kind folks who have responded so far. I have a bit more information: the lute has the brand name ARIA. I did a quick Google search and it seems like a 1970s-1980s brand (?) I could only find a reference to a 7-8 course Renaissance model; nothing like this one. And also I found someone saying it was an American instrument and someone else saying it was a Japanese instrument, so I don't know what to think. FWIW . . . Thanks! Chris Witmer Tokyo Daniel Josua Koenig wrote: Dear Chris, I think this lute dont look so good that I would buy it for a moment in which your daughter can play it. For me it looks a litle bit heavy and also the model I dont like for a 10-11 curse lute. Maybe you can see who made it. There are lutes from germany around the year 1970 who are realy heavy and more like guitars and you cant play it like a lute. For me it is looking a little bit like one of this lutes. Also I think that if your daugther loves the music there will be come the day in which she chooses a instrument she loves too. That will be a Instrument from which she probably is acompanied for the rest of her life and I think it would be a litle bit frustrating if she must play this lute who daddy once bought. Regards Daniel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Francesco duo
Dear all, does anyone know what the ground for Francescos duet from the Castelfranco Ms is? An original composition, a tenor or a chanson? (Sounds to me like the latter...) Regards, Stephan To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Can anyone provide some insight into this instrument for me?
There is one thing I think I know for sure it is not a Pakistani Lute. It would be nice to know who the maker is, it looks to be a decent instrument. Ten course? My father once made the statement that a thing is really only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. In todays market for good Lutes you could be looking at $2000 for a similar instrument were you to have it made, sadly that is on the cheap side for a ten course. However not knowing the maker and how it is made I would offer $500 and go up from there. You could get lucky. Vance Wood. - Original Message - From: Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List Lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 5:00 AM Subject: [LUTE] Can anyone provide some insight into this instrument for me? I have been advised by a total ignoramus about lutes that another person, who is also a total ignoramus about lutes, has one gathering dust at his place and would be willing to sell it for whatever would be a fair price. Since I know very little about lutes myself, I thought I should link the images here and ask for help in identifying the instrument and guesstimating what might be a fair price to offer for it (if anything). I do know that it looks nice in the pictures! (Doh!) This would be used by my daughter (age 13, 168-9cm, large hands) who is soon going to switch from piano (at which she is quite good) to lute, since she has been totally in love with Renaissance and baroque music for many years. I had been thinking of a smallish Renaissance lute with 7-8 courses for her to start with, and I suspect this instrument might be a bit of a stretch for her at first, but if it is worth buying and hanging on to at a certain price, I might make an offer. If it turns out to be less than ideal for her as a beginning instrument, we can continue the search for something better suited and save this instrument for when she reaches the right point in her development and needs it to play pieces for which a lute with fewer courses would be inappropriate . . . Here are the images; any helpful advice would be GREATLY appreciated. http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/4571/lute12wl.jpg http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5471/lute25tg.jpg http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7404/lute32gx.jpg Thanks! Chris Witmer Tokyo To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Mean tone temperament
It is an opinion of a matematician-harpsichordist friend of mine: that he did, unequivocally. RT Werckmeister never accurately described equal temperament. Neidhart's temperament was actually a whole set of temperaments, having in common that they were more consonant in the more frequently used keys and less consonant in the remoter keys. Not quite equal, then, were they? He had more than two dozen of these temperaments, and wanted them flexibly applied. He recommended different ones for villages, towns and cities. Only for the court did he have an equal temperament in mind. David The irony of mentioning Werckmeister's temperaments of 1691, is that in his 'Paradoxal-Discourse published posthumously in 1707, his final words on To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Can anyone provide some insight into this instrument for me?
- Original Message - From: Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:25 am Subject: [LUTE] Re: Can anyone provide some insight into this instrument for me? Thanks to the kind folks who have responded so far. I have a bit more information: the lute has the brand name ARIA. I did a quick Google search and it seems like a 1970s-1980s brand (?) I could only find a reference to a 7-8 course Renaissance model; nothing like this one. And also I found someone saying it was an American instrument and someone else saying it was a Japanese instrument, so I don't know what to think. FWIW . . . Aria was a Japanese brand (as far as I know, they've outsourced much to all of their production to less expensive Asian places now). They are a mass-producer of decent quality classical guitars, but they are a mass producer. Best, Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Heretical Thinking vis a vis Lutes
Dear Rob, If you are new to the list you will have missed an interesting discussion on soundboard thicknesses on the list a few months ago - you should be able to find it in the archives. I feel that heretical thinking is a good thing! It keeps us thinking and challenging received opinions, which are sometimes wrong. But I am not sure that yours is a great heresy. Stephen Barber has long maintained that historical soundboards were thicker than the surviving instruments suggest - for more information see http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/. From my experience of playing Stephen Sandi's lutes I find that I can use a very firm right hand technique (no nails), which can produce a surprising amount of volume - not enough, obviously, to drown an orchestra, but enough to be heard in a reasonably sized church or concert hall. And there are no splits or warps in the soundboards after years of use. Logic dictates that the best original Renaissance instruments must have been reasonably robust to have sustained 200 year working lives. So it might not be necessary to depart from historical principles at all to achieve your aims. For those occasions where more volume is needed, why not use a good microphone and a PA? Best wishes, Denys - Original Message - From: Rob Dorsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List Lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:00 PM Subject: [LUTE] Heretical Thinking vis a vis Lutes Hi All, Although new to the list, I'm going to put my foot into it and seek some feedback, very candid please, I'm a big boy and can take it. As I said in my opening post I'm a player of baroque lute, hoping to be called a competent amateur some day, and a hobby lute builder now turned pro. I've built a few lutes after my study with Bob Lundberg in Portland, 20 odd (and they were) years ago and have, from playing and building, come up with some strongly held beliefs. It these notions I'd like to share with this erudite company in hopes of guidance and good counsel. My fear is that the first response will be Somebody get a rope! but here goes: * Bob's lutes (of which I have two) were built exactly to historical specifications. This is understandable given his level of scholarship. However, the soundboard of my Dieffopruchar style, 76cm 13crs lute, from his hand has cracked 3 times and, using nylon trebles and modern wound basses, lives at an almost alarmingly high tension indicated by the bulge below the bridge and the standing wave in the upper soundboard even though I keep it a 415. Some with more experience than me have told me that that's ok and, so long as the top of the wave doesn't interfere with the strings (!) all is fine. That seems extreme to me so in my building I've sought to minimize those problems. None of my instruments have cracked. All the lutes I've bought from other builders have. H. A new acquaintance from this list is bringing me two lutes from his stable next week for repairs. Both have cracks in the soundboard below the bridge. I don't like cracks. * Playing in informal ensemble - baroque flute, gamba, tenor recorder, sometimes a baroque oboe and me on theorbo - led to a realization that it's darned hard to hear a lute, even a 140 theorbo, and you tend to form a habit of really bearing down to match the sound of the ensemble with the attendant loss of tone. Playing in solo recital with more than about 10 people was the same and Bob and I talked often about how to build a proper lute with a pickup hidden within the body. (We imagined a removable strap button on the butt of the lute with the amp plug underneath. You'd just thread the plug through the strap slit and plug it in. Very stealthy, what what?) But, failing that, you again find yourself, or at least myself, hammering the poor instrument or vastly exceeding the string size/tension in an attempt to be heard. This was particularly true when I used only gut trebles. Bottom line, I always felt the lute should project better and do it without taking on a strident tone. * Practically speaking we live in a synthetic world, string-wise. The thinnest nylons (.40 or smaller) on the longer mensurs get really thin sounding. Like all of us, I'm a busy person and just don't have time for the esoteric joys of gut anymore. I just went over to my 13crs Dieffopruchar and threw the strap around my neck. I hadn't played it since yesterday and it's still in tune. You gotta like that. So here's my fix for the above, served up as beliefs in action: 1. I build my lutes for a slightly higher tension than the historical model. They are braced for that tension and are intended to be played in either 415 or 440 at the musician's whim. That means that nylon strings and wound basses are right in. Additionally (another heresy) I like to play with just a bit of nail which gives the trebles a fighting chance against the big lute's majestic basses. Also, it seems to be getting
[LUTE] Playing With Nails
Hello luters, Just out of curiosity: how many of you, if any, play the lute with nails? I've been looking online at the various old paintings of lutenists, and I can't see that any of them had long nails; but on the other hand, one occasionally hears of people that do play with nails. I've also heard it said that nail playing is appropriate when accompanying singers or other instrumentalists. What do you all think of nail playing on the lute? Another heresy perhaps? David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rastallmusic.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Heretical Thinking vis a vis Lutes
On Mar 26, 2006, at 6:00 AM, Rob Dorsey wrote: it's darned hard to hear a lute, even a 140 theorbo, and you tend to form a habit of really bearing down to match the sound of the ensemble with the attendant loss of tone. I agree. I think the biggest mystery of the lute is the stringing. Perhaps the recent trend of much lower tension and playing much nearer the bridge, as depicted in so many paintings, might be a step towards a more authentic solution. I am going through this dilemma now with my archlute. I can, with extreme self discipline, play solos on it and get a sweet tone, however continuo? forget about it. I want to dig in and be heard. It is just not set up for it. I'm thinking part of the problem might be the cheap Pyramid strings it came with, but that is only part. It could be continuo and solo instruments were set up differently and not expected to do double duty. Could be we just don't know enough about stringing. Maybe they didn't mind a bray sound. Many mysteries with the lute. Bob and I talked often about how to build a proper lute with a pickup hidden within the body. (We imagined a removable strap button on the butt of the lute with the amp plug underneath. Been there, done that. I now use Edward Martin's way: a little piece of wood wedged between the bridge and the strings as they go over the bridge so the wood protrudes out and then wedge a mic with the pop filter on it between the top and the piece of wood. I've found that some of the builders who build anything you want spend a hell of a lot of time building molds and jigs rather than lutes. I know some makers build lutes without molds. cheers, To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Playing With Nails
I used to play with the nails many years ago. I got a pretty good sound as well but I didn't then realize that I was only playing one string in the pair that makes up a course. Once I learned to play with the finger tips and to strike both strings in a course I noticed the difference in the quality of the sound. Now if I have become lazy and allowed a nail to grow to long that it hits the strings I notice imeadiatly because the sound becomes brasy and strident. You can play with the nails but I think what you will find you either create a lousy sound or you do not play all the strings you are supposed to. Vance Wood. - Original Message - From: David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 9:56 AM Subject: [LUTE] Playing With Nails Hello luters, Just out of curiosity: how many of you, if any, play the lute with nails? I've been looking online at the various old paintings of lutenists, and I can't see that any of them had long nails; but on the other hand, one occasionally hears of people that do play with nails. I've also heard it said that nail playing is appropriate when accompanying singers or other instrumentalists. What do you all think of nail playing on the lute? Another heresy perhaps? David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rastallmusic.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Can anyone provide some insight into this instrument for me?
Beste Teun Take your lutes to someone who can tell you a bit more. Where do you live? If you go to Sebastian Nunez in Utrecht he will not only give you good advice, but strings as well. David David van Ooijen Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Http://www.davidvanooijen.nl - Original Message - From: Teun van Oosterhoudt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: List Lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 4:01 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Can anyone provide some insight into this instrument for me? Hello all, I never posted anything here, but I follow discussions with interest. Thanks to all! Now I saw this question, and I thought answers would come quickly. My specific interest was raised as I myself have bought 2 lutes recently, coming from Germany. I live in the Netherlands, by the way. The thing is I don't know much about these lutes and am still looking for info. One of these lutes is quite similar to your lute, and also the case looks similar (the inside material: this could be an indication or does it look like this mostly?). My lutes come from East-Germany as one (8c) is build in 1977 in Neumarkkirchen by Gunter Penzel. The other one is a 10c ren. lute with no name of the maker, but the former owner told me she had it build in East-Germany around 1980. That is all she knows. This is the one looking like yours. So my lutes are both from East Germany around 1980, as could be yours. On the internet there is very little to find about this and of course it was a closed country at that time. Now the lutes I own have bridges on the soundboard, one of wood and the other in white, probably something synthetic/plastic. Looking at your picture, I think I also see a white bridge. It that true? I did notice this to be unusual. It seems most lutes do not have a bridge (like a guitar) at all! The strings are simply tied there. I know little about lute-making, but from my lutes I can see it is really all very carefully made, real quality. And I did find that Neumarkkirchen is well known for instruments building in Germany and abroad. I am still trying to get proper strings, so I can't tell about the sound. I can make some pictures though. I hope this helps a bit. I would be very pleased if anyone can provide more info. Someone made a remark about lutes from Germany around 1970 being heavy and not very lute-like to play. Where does this come from and how can you tell it is a such a lute? For instance, the weight of the instrument? Regards, Teun van Oosterhoudt 2006/3/26, Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I have been advised by a total ignoramus about lutes that another person, who is also a total ignoramus about lutes, has one gathering dust at his place and would be willing to sell it for whatever would be a fair price. Since I know very little about lutes myself, I thought I should link the images here and ask for help in identifying the instrument and guesstimating what might be a fair price to offer for it (if anything). I do know that it looks nice in the pictures! (Doh!) This would be used by my daughter (age 13, 168-9cm, large hands) who is soon going to switch from piano (at which she is quite good) to lute, since she has been totally in love with Renaissance and baroque music for many years. I had been thinking of a smallish Renaissance lute with 7-8 courses for her to start with, and I suspect this instrument might be a bit of a stretch for her at first, but if it is worth buying and hanging on to at a certain price, I might make an offer. If it turns out to be less than ideal for her as a beginning instrument, we can continue the search for something better suited and save this instrument for when she reaches the right point in her development and needs it to play pieces for which a lute with fewer courses would be inappropriate . . . Here are the images; any helpful advice would be GREATLY appreciated. http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/4571/lute12wl.jpg http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5471/lute25tg.jpg http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7404/lute32gx.jpg Thanks! Chris Witmer Tokyo To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: righthand technique - plectrum and lute
Really? That isn't a typo? That is little more than an inch at the nut. On Mar 20, 2006, at 4:57 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The distance between the lowest and highest strings is 2.6 cm at the nut and 6.8 cm at the bridge. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: righthand technique - plectrum and lute
On Mar 26, 2006, at 5:13 AM, bill kilpatrick wrote: here's a lovely detail of some plectrum picking on a 5c. lute: http://schulze-kurz.mine.nu/Seite_Ekkehard/Instrumente_Galerie/ Laute/lauteMA3.jpg taken from an interesting collection of chordaphone illustrations here: http://schulze-kurz.mine.nu/Schulze-Kurz_Galerie.htm The right hand position in the first link is almost identical to the pic of the lute on the second link. The left hand thumb too, for that matter. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Mean tone temperament
From: Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: rec.music.early Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:09 AM Sybrand Bakker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message Jean-Philippe Rameau was the first writer to describe ET, in his Traite de l'harmonie, published in Paris in 1754, so after Bach's death. This is incorrect! For earlier descriptions of Equal Temperament, please see: 1) J. G. Neidhardt 'Beste und leichteste temperatur des Monochordi' (Jena 1706) 2) A. Werckmeister, 'Paradoxal-Discourse' (1707) 3) J. Mattheson, Critica musica, (Hamburg 1722) The following Internet article provides an analysis of an Equal Temperament dating from 1703 that Mattheson published in 1722 (the year of Bach's Well Tempered Clavier): http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Articles/EqTemp1722.pdf To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Heretical Thinking vis a vis Lutes
On Mar 26, 2006, at 9:59 AM, Ed Durbrow wrote: ...It could be continuo and solo instruments were set up differently and not expected to do double duty. Could be we just don't know enough about stringing. Maybe they didn't mind a bray sound. Many mysteries with the lute. I've wondered about this also. I've heard it said among harpers that ALL renaissance harps were bray harps (is that true...?). Personally, I don't like the bray sound, but historically brays definitely were used. And with lutes: looking at the old paintings of lutenists, many of them from the 17th century seem to show the right hand very close to the bridge, the little finger almost touching the bridge, the plucking fingers at nearly a right angle to the strings. Now, when I play that way, I do not make that beautiful, sweet sound that lutenists (and their listeners too, hopefully) swoon over! I get an unattractive and even somewhat abrasive sound that way. I suppose the painters could be wrong, but it's hard to believ that they would all be wrong in the same way! In my own playing, to get the really good swooning sound I have to play thumb-under (although I'm currently experimenting with thumb-out nail playing). Actually, I haven't seen very many current photos of lutenists with their right hands held in that position shown in the paintings. So, were the 17th-century lutenists actually going for a different sound than their 16th-century predecessors? David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: righthand technique - plectrum and lute
--- Stuart Walsh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are we seeing a quill plectrum protruding from between the second joint of the first and second fingers? And what is the third finger doing? The left hand is fretting notes both where the quill would strike the strings and several courses away. The player could be about to strum a chord. Or could the player be playing two voices at once - one with the plectrum and one with the third finger? in his article, prof. baldassare mentions three ways to hold the plectrum and of the three i'd say this is the third - hand over the strings with the palm facing the body of the instrument with plectrum (often a barbless ostrich feather) placed between the tips of the thumb and index or middle finger. he says this technique is more prevalent in 15th cent. court music settings. on his site, ronny used to have a video of himself playing oud with simultaneous use of both plectrum and finger. - bill early music charango ... http://groups.google.com/group/charango ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] NPR, Weekend edition- Rolf Lislevand
the March 26 show listen here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5301786 -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Mean tone temperament
(I tried to crosspost this, but it didn't come through...) I'd like to take the opportunity to once again point out Bradley Lehman's Bach-tuning, which can be studied at http://www.larips.com According to his argumentation, equal could well have meant to be _equal-sounding_ in several instances. I quote from his FAQ: My thesis is that JS Bach knew very well about equal temperament (in the 1720s and earlier), and rejected its rise in practice by other experts, because he had something better-sounding already in hand. This was a major point in compiling the WTC as demonstration. His equal-ish temperament has the same complete flexibility through all keys, all equally usable, but with a healthy and interesting variety of characters also. It makes the jobs of the other players and singers easier and more natural, in the tensions and relaxations it reveals in the music. Interpretation becomes an instinctive reaction to the sound that is already happening: not a fight against equal temperament's sameness to put the phrasing across the footlights. I read somewhere that ET or E-sounding-T became an important issue when professional wind players started to visit european courts around 1700 with differently pitched instruments depending on where they came from. Not surprisingly Neidhard advocates ET only for courts, this enables chromatic transposition to suite the guest artist. String players could adjust easily to the local pitch and meantone variety, and AFAIK choir and chamber pitch were mostly a whole tone apart which also minimizes transposing problems in a meantone temperament. So to me the rise of ET seems to be a practical issue rather than an aesthetical one. It's a pity that unequal but circular temperaments like Lehman's aren't possible on fretted instruments. Regards, Stephan Am 25 Mar 2006 um 12:37 hat Daniel F Heiman geschrieben: On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 11:52:58 -0500 Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: snip Howard wrote: Equal temperament pretty much destroys this expressive effect. Most baroque music is in one of the simpler keys (i.e. few sharps or flats You forgot the modifier EARLY. In the later baroque where the expression is based on modulation the ET is essential. RT Equal temperament is NOT essential for music from any part of the baroque era. Some theorists, composers and performers were advocates of it, and others were not. For example, Johann Sebastian Bach was not a fan of equal temperament. He did write a set of pieces entitled Das wohltemperierte Klavier, which most commentators now believe requires a circulating meantone temperament rather than equal tempered tuning. F. W. Marpurg provides twelve different unequally tempered tuning schemes for keyboard instruments in his Versuch (Breslau, 1776). J. P. Kirnberger gives a meantone keyboard temperament in 1779 (die Kunst des reinen Satzes in der Musik, Berlin) which is repeated in the treatise of C. L. G. von Wiese (Dresden, 1793). All of these are beyond the normally accepted terminus of the baroque period. Murray Barbour states, We are told that organs in England were still generally in meantone temperament until the middle of the nineteenth century. (p. 10) Daniel Heiman -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: NPR, Weekend edition- Rolf Lislevand
In einer eMail vom 26.03.2006 20:15:29 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: the March 26 show listen here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5301786 Hi, thanks for the link, I found the text on the page about the show, full of the ignorance one learns to expect when it comes to a 21st perspective on renaissance music. For example After the dense harmonies of the 16th century, a simpler style of music emerged, allowing performers to develop improvisational talents. Yet many contemporary musicians play early music pieces as closely as possible to the way they were played when they were written. Renaissance music is full of Simpler Music with some grounds having only 2 chords. Can't get much simpler. Also I don't believe the Baroque saw an increase in improvising skills and quality. best wishes Mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Playing With Nails
¥ªí×~öÛôuõçÎ kÞº.Ö«È*'µéíO*^ém«·ö¥µêçjدyº.Ö« To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Heretical Thinking vis a vis Lutes
haven't seen very many current photos of lutenists with their right hands held in that position shown in the paintings. Like David, I am curious to hear an explanation of the close hand. Paul Pleijsier Hoi Paul Talk to Toyohiko, he is doing that these days. Gradually, to be fair, but step by step closer to the bridge (take me to the bridge ...) with a lower string tension. He's happy with it. David David van Ooijen Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Http://www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Playing With Nails
On Mar 26, 2006, at 11:59 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ¥ªí×~öÛôuõçÎ kÞº.Ö«È*'µéíO*^ém«·ö¥µêçjدyº.Ö« This is what my playing sounds like w/ nails. Sean To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Playing With Nails
¥ªí×~öÛôuõçÎ kSÞ.º.Ö«È*'µéíO*^sémS-«·ö¥µêçjدyº.Ö« This is what my playing sounds like w/ nails. On carbon, that is. David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Playing With Nails
David et al, Its funny that you should mention the old paintings to support a no-nails approach. I've often looked at the (in reference to what I've been taught today) seemingly awkward right hand positions of lutenists in many old paintings and wondered how the players could _not_ have been using nails. I have recently begun playing my single-strung theorbo with short nails in both solo and ensemble music for the last few months. I began theorbo by not playing with nails, but I'm amazed at the new tone I'm able to achieve this way: clean _and_ warm - and loud if I need it. Another benefit is the speed at which I'm able to articulate notes. On the other hand (not literally) I generally do not use the nail on my thumb, giving more thud to the bass. Occasionally, however, I do use the thumbnail for a more metallic special effect which can be very useful in Italian monody. When I play lutes with courses I do not use nails, though. Rodney Stuckey, who lives around these parts, does play lute and baroque guitar with nails. Again, he achieves such a warm tone that I've had to actually look while he plays to confirm that those nails are there. I think much of it has to do with the individual player. It is more difficult to achieve a satisfactory tone with nails, but a refined performer is going to spend a great deal of mental effort on developing his or her tone whether they are using nails or not. Chris --- David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello luters, Just out of curiosity: how many of you, if any, play the lute with nails? I've been looking online at the various old paintings of lutenists, and I can't see that any of them had long nails; but on the other hand, one occasionally hears of people that do play with nails. I've also heard it said that nail playing is appropriate when accompanying singers or other instrumentalists. What do you all think of nail playing on the lute? Another heresy perhaps? David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rastallmusic.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
[LUTE] Re: Mean tone temperament
Body frets ARE historical feature on baroque lutes. RT Seems to be accurate enough. No temperament is accurate with lutes, once left hand starts fretting, and even more so higher up the neck, especially with such high action as, say, But that's the whole point of movable frets. You can adjust them to the temperament, but also to the (im)perfections of the strings. Have a look at the frets on my theorbo, _quite_ oblique to accommodate thick gut bass strings. Frets at 'calculated positions' (ET or MT) are bound to give false results without adjustments. Guitar with fixed frest have build-in adjustment for this. Perhaps another reason why body frets were not a historical feature on lutes: they cannot be adjusted to action, temperament, strings or individual (lack of proper) technique. David ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] ok...another try
Clearly the jpeg of the Pellegrini engraving did not come through so I am now sending it as an attachment -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: ok...another try
I don't think you can mail attachments to the list. Do you have a link through which we can view it? Chris --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Clearly the jpeg of the Pellegrini engraving did not come through so I am now sending it as an attachment -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
[LUTE] Re: Heretical Thinking vis a vis Lutes
Dear Rob, My apologies - I misunderstood what you were saying - you want to improve on historical lute building practice. It seems likely that instrument makers in the past had the same goal, so why not? I wish you well with it, and hope you will let us know how your work develops. Best wishes, Denys - Original Message - From: Rob Dorsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Denys Stephens' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 3:11 PM Subject: RE: [LUTE] Re: Heretical Thinking vis a vis Lutes Denys, Actually some of the rant is moot as I am not performing now and may not again. Rather the quest is an academic one in search of the best lute that can be made. I refuse to believe that the apex of instrument building occurred some 300 years ago given our technology, tools and a world of woods and glues. I feel the same about the Cremora violin builders. Are we to believe that Sr. Stradivari made the best violin that could be made and anyone today is just wasting their time? Put like that it sounds like the nonsense it is. It is much like us Americans believing that we had assembled in 1776 the 50 greatest political and social minds of all time and that each word from their collective pen is sacrosanct. Rubbish! I'm pretty sure of my thoughts on lute construction but reserve the right to allow those thoughts to evolve. I want to try some alternative soundboard woods (cedar and cypress for 2) and to do a finite element analysis on the perfect body cavity shape and overall instrument configuration. The historical instruments vary wildly in shape and size. Why can't I? All the Best, Rob Dorsey Florence, KY USA -Original Message- From: Denys Stephens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 8:48 AM To: lute net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Heretical Thinking vis a vis Lutes Dear Rob, If you are new to the list you will have missed an interesting discussion on soundboard thicknesses on the list a few months ago - you should be able to find it in the archives. I feel that heretical thinking is a good thing! It keeps us thinking and challenging received opinions, which are sometimes wrong. But I am not sure that yours is a great heresy. Stephen Barber has long maintained that historical soundboards were thicker than the surviving instruments suggest - for more information see http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/. From my experience of playing Stephen Sandi's lutes I find that I can use a very firm right hand technique (no nails), which can produce a surprising amount of volume - not enough, obviously, to drown an orchestra, but enough to be heard in a reasonably sized church or concert hall. And there are no splits or warps in the soundboards after years of use. Logic dictates that the best original Renaissance instruments must have been reasonably robust to have sustained 200 year working lives. So it might not be necessary to depart from historical principles at all to achieve your aims. For those occasions where more volume is needed, why not use a good microphone and a PA? Best wishes, Denys - Original Message - From: Rob Dorsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List Lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:00 PM Subject: [LUTE] Heretical Thinking vis a vis Lutes Hi All, Although new to the list, I'm going to put my foot into it and seek some feedback, very candid please, I'm a big boy and can take it. As I said in my opening post I'm a player of baroque lute, hoping to be called a competent amateur some day, and a hobby lute builder now turned pro. I've built a few lutes after my study with Bob Lundberg in Portland, 20 odd (and they were) years ago and have, from playing and building, come up with some strongly held beliefs. It these notions I'd like to share with this erudite company in hopes of guidance and good counsel. My fear is that the first response will be Somebody get a rope! but here goes: * Bob's lutes (of which I have two) were built exactly to historical specifications. This is understandable given his level of scholarship. However, the soundboard of my Dieffopruchar style, 76cm 13crs lute, from his hand has cracked 3 times and, using nylon trebles and modern wound basses, lives at an almost alarmingly high tension indicated by the bulge below the bridge and the standing wave in the upper soundboard even though I keep it a 415. Some with more experience than me have told me that that's ok and, so long as the top of the wave doesn't interfere with the strings (!) all is fine. That seems extreme to me so in my building I've sought to minimize those problems. None of my instruments have cracked. All the lutes I've bought from other builders have. H. A new acquaintance from this list is bringing me two lutes from his stable next week for repairs. Both have cracks in the soundboard below the bridge. I don't like cracks.
[LUTE] Re: Playing With Nails
David, I play all of my instruments with some degree of nail, but I change the angle of my wrist and the angle of the finger stroke for each instrument. It's not so hard to do once you get used to it. But, when playing fast 16th century division music I play with no thumbnail (which I usually keep quite short anyway) and very short nails on my idex, middle and pinky fingers. On the lute I make contact mostly with flesh. Frankly, if I did't enjoy playing theorbo, baroque guitar and 9th cent. guitar so mush, I might them off...they are a hassle to take care of...and a baroque lute is much easier to play without them. But...and here is the blasphemy...lately I have been playing a d minor lute with no thumbnail and have kept the top 4 strings single at a slightly higher tension. The advantages of this are 1) the short nails allow for just a enough of an increase in volume so as to be heard more clearly in an ensemble 2) using single strings at a slightly higher tension on strings 1-4 which allows for a slightly harder plucker on the strings where the melody is most present, and results in a more projecting sound. Quite frankly, no one has yet to really notice the difference except that i can be heard more clearly, while using the same instrument (and the string players love it since they don't have to play as if walking in egg shells..) I think that the BIG problem here is that modern guitarists (and many others that I have seen) have a real problem understanding how to articulate on a period instrument with nails, they claw, scratch and opver play...rather than using a lot of flesh and letting the nail glide over the string, much as Piccininni described it. Clearly he also enjoyed the sound of a bright metallic nail sound as he describes the pleasure in a timbre that is suono Argentinahe also mentions at least 3 times playing con sommità dell' ungna. (with the tip of the nail...) Sadly, I also think that we have entered into a world of dogma and absolutism wherein the appreciation of a diversity of timbre has replaced by conformity. RS -Original Message- From: David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 15:48:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Playing With Nails Richard, Just curious, as I've had a Lacote copy for a few months now and am still unsure which is the best RH technique to use with it: do you play your 19thC guitar music with nails? ¥ªí×~öÛôu õçÎ kSÞ.º.Ö«È*'µéíO*^sémS-«·ö ¥µêçjدyº.Ö« I gather you have a low opinion of playing the lute with nails...? ;-) David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rastallmusic.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Rolf Lislevand on NPR
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5301786 Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Playing With Nails
For me - playing without nails is like tap dancing barefoot. Joseph Mayes From: LGS-Europe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sun 3/26/2006 3:19 PM To: Lutelist Subject: [LUTE] Re: Playing With Nails =A5=AA=ED=D7~=F6=DB=8D=F4u=AD=F5=E7=CE=1CkS=DE.=BA.=9D=D6=AB=C8*'=B5e=EDO*^semS-=AB=B7=F6=A5=B5=EA=E7j=D8=AFy=BA.=9D=D6=AB This is what my playing sounds like w/ nails. On carbon, that is. David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: Playing With Nails
That's the way the Lute is supposed to sound, more of a soft shoe. - Original Message - From: Mayes, Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 5:35 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Playing With Nails For me - playing without nails is like tap dancing barefoot. Joseph Mayes From: LGS-Europe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sun 3/26/2006 3:19 PM To: Lutelist Subject: [LUTE] Re: Playing With Nails =A5=AA=ED=D7~=F6=DB=8D=F4u=AD=F5=E7=CE=1CkS=DE.=BA.=9D=D6=AB=C8*'=B5e=EDO*^s emS-=AB=B7=F6=A5=B5=EA=E7j=D8=AFy=BA.=9D=D6=AB This is what my playing sounds like w/ nails. On carbon, that is. David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: Playing With Nails
Richard, Thanks for all the information you sent! David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rastallmusic.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Heretical Thinking vis a vis Lutes
David, As the other David pointed to you, Toyohiko Satoh has been playing the past few years with a technique that represents what the paintings demonstrate, which is the right hand almost on the bridge, with the right hand perpendicular to the bridge. He will be performing in this manner in June at the LSA seminar in Cleveland. ed At 11:26 AM 3/26/2006 -0500, David Rastall wrote: In my own playing, to get the really good swooning sound I have to play thumb-under (although I'm currently experimenting with thumb-out nail playing). Actually, I haven't seen very many current photos of lutenists with their right hands held in that position shown in the paintings. So, were the 17th-century lutenists actually going for a different sound than their 16th-century predecessors? David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
[LUTE] Re: Playing With Nails
Is tap dancing your ideal sound??? RT For me - playing without nails is like tap dancing barefoot. Joseph Mayes =A5=AA=ED=D7~=F6=DB=8D=F4u=AD=F5=E7=CE=1CkS=DE.=BA.=9D=D6=AB=C8*'=B5e=EDO*^semS-=AB=B7=F6=A5=B5=EA=E7j=D8=AFy=BA.=9D=D6=AB This is what my playing sounds like w/ nails. On carbon, that is. David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Lute sighting on Simpsons tonight
Anyone see the Simpsons tonight? The British boy played lute for the Simpsons before his Mandarin Chinese lesson. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute sighting on Simpsons tonight
I missed that bit, darn it. But playing lute seems to be an occasional running joke on the Simpsons. Martin, the gifted kid, played lute in a school talent show in a previous episode. Derek Monahan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone see the Simpsons tonight? The British boy played lute for the Simpsons before his Mandarin Chinese lesson. - New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute sighting on Simpsons tonight
Lots of lutes at the climax of Shrek, as all the characters sing 'I'm a believer', the Monkeys hit. Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: recording with my notebook..
hi all, i found my solution: using audacity thanks to thomas for this information! and a dynamic microfon from the 70th: telefunken TD 26, which works well for my needs. the little holder fits perfectly in distance and angle to my music stand. thanks to my mother. she bring it back to light from the junk room. greetings w. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute sighting on Simpsons tonight
You are a lute freak! ;-) Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 27 March 2006 08:13 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: AW: [LUTE] Re: Lute sighting on Simpsons tonight Oh yes! Everybody told me that - seems as if I would be known for being a lute-freak ... Thomas Lots of lutes at the climax of Shrek, as all the characters sing 'I'm a believer', the Monkeys hit. Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
