[LUTE] Re: dedillo
Oh thanks Gernot. That one. I thought you all were talking about a new one. On Nov 2, 2007, at 4:22 PM, Gernot Hilger wrote: > Zitat von Ed Durbrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > >> Could someone please post the URL so I could watch this? Thank you. > > http://youtube.com/watch?v=G23_pcCZkZg Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: dedillo
ha, did you noticed: PoD has a marker on the 7th bar! i need one too! :-) w. Original-Nachricht > Datum: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 08:22:46 +0100 > Von: Gernot Hilger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > An: Ed Durbrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > CC: LuteNet list > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: dedillo > Zitat von Ed Durbrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > Could someone please post the URL so I could watch this? Thank you. > > http://youtube.com/watch?v=G23_pcCZkZg > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: dedillo
Zitat von Ed Durbrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Could someone please post the URL so I could watch this? Thank you. http://youtube.com/watch?v=G23_pcCZkZg To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: dedillo
>> PS. #73 has an identical beginning as 2 of Molinaro's fantasias. Neither remarkable nor much of a coincidence. The first three or four notes are a formula known in Italy as, if I recall correctly, the "canzona francese." Pieces based on it were common--Giovanni Gabrieli was particularly fond of it. Bruno Correia wrote: > I have a recording by > P.Odetteand it sounds a little different from Poulton's edition. Every recording will sound different. There's one manuscript source for it, and it's a mess, so every performer has to make decisions about, for example, where rhythm signs should go. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: dedillo
Could someone please post the URL so I could watch this? Thank you. On Nov 1, 2007, at 6:57 AM, G. Crona wrote: I recently watched a YouTube clip with PO´D, from some instructional TV program, where he played the Poulton #73 (Molinaro-dubious-very-fine) Fantasia with "dedillo" in the final show-off. I thought that was cool, as I play it differently. (cf. also Cat Stevens - thumb - index - raking. You really only need two fingers, or hoofs ;~) B.R. G. - Original Message - From: "John Griffiths" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:13 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: dedillo Hi Jocelyn, No the guitarra portuguesa is closer to a cittern in its modern form -- they still use the term viol=E3o (=vihuela in Port.) for the Spanish guitar. Even though the current instrument is of 18th-century British origin, the techniques for playing it are much older. They still play "dedilho" for most passage work. Check these: http://www.attambur.com/Recolhas/a_guitarra_portuguesa.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_guitar John On 31/10/2007, at 11:45, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote: John, Is the Portuguese guitar you mention the 4-course like the Renaissance guitar and the uke? Jocelyn From: John Griffiths [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue 10/30/2007 8:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: dedillo My two-penneth worth is that we have two main ways of learning about dedillo from contemporary practice. One is from the variety of techniques used in vihuela/guitarra-derivatives in Latin America, such as the charango and various others. The second is the Portuguese guitar that has continued to use dedillo technique in a manner that I suspect is not far removed from the way that sixteenth-century vihuelists used it. John On 31/10/2007, at 10:23, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: > At 07:00 PM 10/30/2007, Stuart Walsh wrote: >> Is the vihuela the only instrument that uses this technique? I don't >> think there is anything like it in 4 or 5 course guitar, or any >> kind of >> lute, technique. There couldn't be anything in the construction of >> the >> instrument that makes this a more likely possibility, could there? >> And >> hats off to Ralph Maier for actually mastering it. >> >> Speaking only as an amateur: the whole business is trying to get >> the flesh >> of the fingers to sound the strings. But the downward stroke of >> dedillo >> seems like a crude bash with the nails. How do you square the >> considered >> upward pluck of the fingers with - what could easily be- a rather >> percussive chunk downwards with the thumb? > > Dedillo as tremolo is pretty common to modern classical guitar and > perhaps > even more common to flamenco (and, as Bill has offered, to chordal > charango > technique). > > I'm not certain how to interpret your latter paragraph, Stuart. The > potential imbalance in tone is between the typical full-voiced > upstroke of > nail/flesh against the thinner-voiced downstroke of the same > finger, back > of nail only. To quote the fine detail of Ralph's article: > [W]hen commencing a section of passage-work where dedillo has been > indicated in the tablature, or where the passage seems well-suited > to this > type of articulation, the vihuelist begins with an upward stroke on > the > accented beat with the fleshy side of the index finger. During the > subsequent release of the finger to its original starting point (in > other > words, the downstroke), the vihuelist articulates the string again, > now > with nail side of the finger. > > I don't necessarily think it needs to balance. I think the strong- > weak > pulse is a feature of dedillo to be exploited. > > Eugene > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ~ Professor John Griffiths Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e- mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e- mail. -- ~ Professor John Griffiths Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or informatio
[LUTE] Re: dedillo
Really? Would you mind to tell us which ones? I've been very curious about this fantasia (I'm playing it at the moment). I have a recording by P.Odetteand it sounds a little different from Poulton's edition. Regards. 2007/11/1, G. Crona <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > PS. #73 has an identical beginning as 2 of Molinaro's fantasias. > > -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: dedillo
PS. #73 has an identical beginning as 2 of Molinaro's fantasias. - Original Message - From: "Gernot Hilger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute List" Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 10:49 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: dedillo The video looks very much like dedillo, but the sound tells us otherwise. Bass and treble are merely alternating as are the thumb and index. If it were dedillo we'd notice more than one treble note per bass note. Is the piece really attributed to Molinaro? g On 01.11.2007, at 12:41, Robert Clair wrote: I recently watched a YouTube clip with PO'D, from some instructional TV program, where he played the Poulton #73 (Molinaro-dubious-very-fine) Fantasia with "dedillo" in the final show-off. I thought that was cool, as I play it differently. Let me gently suggest that you watch the video again. He is playing the tremolo with a normal thumb-index alternation. If you're not convinced, download the video and watch it with a viewer where you can go frame by frame. It's quite clear. (TubeTV + QuickTime will work on a Mac, can't help with the Redmond product.) Bob -- "My lute is strung entirely in gut.", said Tom sheepishly. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: dedillo
O.K., sorry if I'm mistaken. I think I used "Spinacino" as key word. In the beginning he's talking to a guy on elementaries like courses, and finishes with the #73. The piece is tentatively attributed to Dowland by Poulton according to style. I think its a very fine piece, and its one of my favs. I'll check the video again tomorrow on a faster machine than the one I've got at home. I believe the finish _could_ be played using dedillo though? B.R. G. - Original Message - From: "Gernot Hilger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute List" Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 10:49 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: dedillo The video looks very much like dedillo, but the sound tells us otherwise. Bass and treble are merely alternating as are the thumb and index. If it were dedillo we'd notice more than one treble note per bass note. Is the piece really attributed to Molinaro? g On 01.11.2007, at 12:41, Robert Clair wrote: I recently watched a YouTube clip with PO'D, from some instructional TV program, where he played the Poulton #73 (Molinaro-dubious-very-fine) Fantasia with "dedillo" in the final show-off. I thought that was cool, as I play it differently. Let me gently suggest that you watch the video again. He is playing the tremolo with a normal thumb-index alternation. If you're not convinced, download the video and watch it with a viewer where you can go frame by frame. It's quite clear. (TubeTV + QuickTime will work on a Mac, can't help with the Redmond product.) Bob -- "My lute is strung entirely in gut.", said Tom sheepishly. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: dedillo
The video looks very much like dedillo, but the sound tells us otherwise. Bass and treble are merely alternating as are the thumb and index. If it were dedillo we'd notice more than one treble note per bass note. Is the piece really attributed to Molinaro? g On 01.11.2007, at 12:41, Robert Clair wrote: I recently watched a YouTube clip with PO'D, from some instructional TV program, where he played the Poulton #73 (Molinaro-dubious-very-fine) Fantasia with "dedillo" in the final show-off. I thought that was cool, as I play it differently. Let me gently suggest that you watch the video again. He is playing the tremolo with a normal thumb-index alternation. If you're not convinced, download the video and watch it with a viewer where you can go frame by frame. It's quite clear. (TubeTV + QuickTime will work on a Mac, can't help with the Redmond product.) Bob -- "My lute is strung entirely in gut.", said Tom sheepishly. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: dedillo
Bob is right, different thing - Original Message - From: "Robert Clair" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute List" Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 12:41 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: dedillo I recently watched a YouTube clip with PO'D, from some instructional TV program, where he played the Poulton #73 (Molinaro-dubious-very-fine) Fantasia with "dedillo" in the final show-off. I thought that was cool, as I play it differently. Let me gently suggest that you watch the video again. He is playing the tremolo with a normal thumb-index alternation. If you're not convinced, download the video and watch it with a viewer where you can go frame by frame. It's quite clear. (TubeTV + QuickTime will work on a Mac, can't help with the Redmond product.) Bob -- "My lute is strung entirely in gut.", said Tom sheepishly. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: dedillo
> I recently watched a YouTube clip with PO'D, from some > instructional TV > program, where he played the Poulton #73 (Molinaro-dubious-very-fine) > Fantasia with "dedillo" in the final show-off. I thought that was > cool, as I > play it differently. Let me gently suggest that you watch the video again. He is playing the tremolo with a normal thumb-index alternation. If you're not convinced, download the video and watch it with a viewer where you can go frame by frame. It's quite clear. (TubeTV + QuickTime will work on a Mac, can't help with the Redmond product.) Bob -- "My lute is strung entirely in gut.", said Tom sheepishly. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute music transposed to Guitar on the internet
LOTS of places. Wayne's, Alain's, Sarge's. Mine: http://torban.org/sarmaticae http://torban.org/ruthenicae http://torban.org/balli RT - Original Message - From: "Joshua E. Horn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "LuteNet" Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 7:21 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute music transposed to Guitar on the internet Scratch that, where is some lute tablature on the internet? -- Joshua E. Horn [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Email service worth paying for. Try it for free To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute music transposed to Guitar on the internet
Scratch that, where is some lute tablature on the internet? -- Joshua E. Horn [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Email service worth paying for. Try it for free To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Lute music transposed to Guitar on the internet
Does anyone know of a site with free Lute music transposed to Guitar? -- Joshua E. Horn [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Access your email from home and the web To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: dedillo
Hi Ed, I think I misunderstood your question earlier. They use the flesh side of the nail for the strong beat - the stroke towards the body. Doc On Oct 31, 2007, at 2:10 PM, Ed Durbrow wrote: > > On Oct 31, 2007, at 1:49 PM, Doc Rossi wrote: > >> I've seen people play dedilho before, but never to such an advanced >> degree as in Portugal. > > Did they use the flesh side or nail side for the strong beat in > Portugal? > TIA > > Ed Durbrow > Saitama, Japan > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: dedillo
Hi Ed, I think I misunderstood your question earlier. They use the flesh side of the nail for the strong beat - the stroke towards the body. Doc On Oct 31, 2007, at 2:10 PM, Ed Durbrow wrote: > > On Oct 31, 2007, at 1:49 PM, Doc Rossi wrote: > >> I've seen people play dedilho before, but never to such an advanced >> degree as in Portugal. > > Did they use the flesh side or nail side for the strong beat in > Portugal? > TIA > > Ed Durbrow > Saitama, Japan > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Persephone
Serge Gerbode site has all the Campion songs www.gerbode.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 November 2007 00:53 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Persephone Sean wrote: >How about > >Harke all you ladies that do sleep >The fairy queen Proserpina bids you awake >and pite them that weep, >You may do in the dark what the day doth forbid, >Fear not the dogs that bark; >night will have all hid. > >#19 in the Rosseter/Campion book, 1601 Thank you Sean. Is there a current publication of this book? Or a facsimile? Craig To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Persephone
> > > Are there any Renaissance lute songs, or songs to which lute could be > > > adapted, that deal with the theme of the myth of Persephone? > > > >Persephone is in Latin texts also known as Ceres. The story is about her > >wedding with Pluto, god of Hades. Ceres is allowed to return to the > >world of the living once a year. Her return is to be realized by the > >sprouting of corn (cereals). > > > >Another alias is Proserpina. In general, Persephone / Ceres / Proserpina > >is the keeper of life-spans, so to say. You may colour your hair, but > >"scit Proserpina canum" (Martial), she knows the grey-haired. > > > >Hope that helps a little. > > Thank you for the response, however I was looking for Renaissance > period songs about the myth of Persephone/Proserpine/Ceres, daighter > of Demeter and Zeus, and her marriage to Pluto/Hades, Greek god of > the underworld. Sorry for not being more clear. Yes, that's what I was aiming at (dunno what the however bears on). Obviously, the Proserpina hint led to some hits. -- Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
