[LUTE] Re: Rust - transcriptions of 21 and 53, I and II
Thank you for this information Arthur.
You may need to re-login to access my site - or the server was down ...
The very short bass notes are found in fast arpeggios (sextoles) and I
doubt they are really meant to be played as actual 32nd notes - they are
more indicative of the difference in time between themselves and the
following note on the G staff. Rust did not bother padding the bass with
rests, so it is open to interpretation, though probably he did not
intend those bass notes to be sustained too long...
I have an inkling also that Rust may have transcribed from tablature to
notation in Rust 21 - I suggest - without proof - that the notation
transcriptions were made in the last part of his life from earlier
material, perhaps to clean up his desk and ensure his legacy. Rust 53,
though, clearly states the pieces were composed in 1791.
Anyone with a feel for stylistic differences between 1765 and 1795???
Good day,
Alain
On 3/17/19 1:47 PM, Arthur Ness wrote:
Dear Alain,
A copy of a 1980 edition of the lute and viola sonata* arrived on
Friday. I can't get on to your site to compare it today. I could32nd notes
yesterday. (". . . projects/view/5") P.S. have your message will
re-connect.
The ms copy** is unusual. It seems to be a kind of pointillistic
transcription from tablature. The notes that would sustain are often
transcribed as short notes. I think you extended them also, e.g., meas
35-40, 64-66, 77-79 bass has long notes (quarters or half notes) in my
print, but the ms has 16ths for the bass notes..
I need to get back to Sciurus about whom you asked. He's in theprobably
related manuscript 40151 (vol. 1) to 40150 (vol. 2). Both purchased in
1897 by Wilhelm Tappert from Antiquarian Liste in Leipzig, where
grandson Rust held forth as Thomas-Kantor.
--Arthur Ness
*Friedrich Wilhelm Rust, **Sonata für Viola und Klavier nach dem
Autograph (!) erstmalig herausgegeben von Wolfgang Sawodhy.**
(München: Verlag Walter Wollenweber, 1980). pp. 7 (score) + 3 (viola).
** https://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/werkansicht?PPN=PPN882226
452=PHYS_0002=DMDLOG_0001=overview-toc
-Original Message-
From: Alain Veylit
Cc: Lute List
Sent: Sun, Mar 17, 2019 1:05 pm
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Rust - transcriptions of 21 and 53, I and II
Thanks for the suggestions, Martyn.
Actually, I was wondering about the Johann Ludwig Krebs concerto in C
for B. lute and strings. The score is widely available on the Net -
here on scribd:
[1][1]https://www.scribd.com/document/371003432/Krebs-Johann-Ludwig-C-D
ur-
Krebs-WV-202 - or straight from the Berlin Staatsbibliothek:
[2][2]http://resolver.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/SBB00021159
Anybody knows anything about this concerto? It seems to be the one
and
only lute piece in Krebs' production, and it is rather ambitious from
an orchestral point of view: lute, 2 violins, viola and cello. I did
not find a trace of a recording of it - Krebs was held in high regard
by J.S. Bach and it s always odd to find the odd lute piece in a
composer's output... The lute part is in tablature, so it should be
less of a challenge than Rust from a transcription point of view. I
found a modern edition of it, which has all the parts ... except for
the lute!
Happy Sunday,
Alain
On 3/17/19 2:53 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
You may consider transcribing some of Haydn's wonderful keyboard
works
or violin and keyboard or piano trios - careful selection will throw
up
works similarly accommoating to the the late lute as the Rust
pieces..
And, of course, some of the Baryton trios can work well with lute in
place of the Baryton...
Might also use the late eighteenth century fashionable
gallichon/mandora too - instead of the 13 course Dm lute...
MH
On Saturday, 16 March 2019, 21:16:39 GMT, Alain Veylit
[3]<[3]al...@musickshandmade.com> wrote:
Those of you interested in late 18th century Baroque lute +
violin/viola
may be interested in transcriptions of Rust sonatas I made that are
now
available for viewing:
I. Sonata in C Major for lute and viola (Rust 21). I worked with
Jean-Daniel Forget to see if we could get a playable tablature
version
of the lute part. The original MS is in grand-staff notation. I am
interested in performers' feedback, particularly because of arpeggios
on
diapasons. Jean-Daniel thinks it is very feasible, I am still a bit
uneasy with those. I don't think there is another tablature
transcription of that sonata but perhaps there is ...
The link to that is:
[4][4]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/projects/view/5
. You will need a login to view that project. It is free
[LUTE] Re: Rust - transcriptions of 21 and 53, I and II
Dear Alain,
A copy of a 1980 edition of the lute and viola sonata* arrived on
Friday. I can't get on to your site to compare it today. I could
yesterday. (". . . projects/view/5") P.S. have your message will
re-connect.
The ms copy** is unusual. It seems to be a kind of pointillistic
transcription from tablature. The notes that would sustain are often
transcribed as short notes. I think you extended them also, e.g., meas
35-40, 64-66, 77-79 bass has long notes (quarters or half notes) in my
print, but the ms has 16ths for the bass notes..
I need to get back to Sciurus about whom you asked. He's in the
related manuscript 40151 (vol. 1) to 40150 (vol. 2). Both purchased in
1897 by Wilhelm Tappert from Antiquarian Liste in Leipzig, where
grandson Rust held forth as Thomas-Kantor.
--Arthur Ness
*Friedrich Wilhelm Rust, **Sonata für Viola und Klavier nach dem
Autograph (!) erstmalig herausgegeben von Wolfgang Sawodhy.**
(München: Verlag Walter Wollenweber, 1980). pp. 7 (score) + 3 (viola).
** https://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/werkansicht?PPN=PPN882226
452=PHYS_0002=DMDLOG_0001=overview-toc
-Original Message-
From: Alain Veylit
Cc: Lute List
Sent: Sun, Mar 17, 2019 1:05 pm
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Rust - transcriptions of 21 and 53, I and II
Thanks for the suggestions, Martyn.
Actually, I was wondering about the Johann Ludwig Krebs concerto in C
for B. lute and strings. The score is widely available on the Net -
here on scribd:
[1][1]https://www.scribd.com/document/371003432/Krebs-Johann-Ludwig-C-D
ur-
Krebs-WV-202 - or straight from the Berlin Staatsbibliothek:
[2][2]http://resolver.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/SBB00021159
Anybody knows anything about this concerto? It seems to be the one
and
only lute piece in Krebs' production, and it is rather ambitious from
an orchestral point of view: lute, 2 violins, viola and cello. I did
not find a trace of a recording of it - Krebs was held in high regard
by J.S. Bach and it s always odd to find the odd lute piece in a
composer's output... The lute part is in tablature, so it should be
less of a challenge than Rust from a transcription point of view. I
found a modern edition of it, which has all the parts ... except for
the lute!
Happy Sunday,
Alain
On 3/17/19 2:53 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
You may consider transcribing some of Haydn's wonderful keyboard
works
or violin and keyboard or piano trios - careful selection will throw
up
works similarly accommoating to the the late lute as the Rust
pieces..
And, of course, some of the Baryton trios can work well with lute in
place of the Baryton...
Might also use the late eighteenth century fashionable
gallichon/mandora too - instead of the 13 course Dm lute...
MH
On Saturday, 16 March 2019, 21:16:39 GMT, Alain Veylit
[3]<[3]al...@musickshandmade.com> wrote:
Those of you interested in late 18th century Baroque lute +
violin/viola
may be interested in transcriptions of Rust sonatas I made that are
now
available for viewing:
I. Sonata in C Major for lute and viola (Rust 21). I worked with
Jean-Daniel Forget to see if we could get a playable tablature
version
of the lute part. The original MS is in grand-staff notation. I am
interested in performers' feedback, particularly because of arpeggios
on
diapasons. Jean-Daniel thinks it is very feasible, I am still a bit
uneasy with those. I don't think there is another tablature
transcription of that sonata but perhaps there is ...
The link to that is:
[4][4]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/projects/view/5
. You will need a login to view that project. It is free and it can
put
you on the world map of lutenists, which is a fun little app.
II. and III. I provided transcriptions, also in collaboration with
Jean-Daniel, of the sonatas I (G) and II (Dm) for lute and violin
based
on the violin parts from the Berlin Staatsbibliothek and the
tablature
part from the Krakow 40150 MS.
The link to those is:
[5]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/projects/view/7.
Finally, I am currently still working on a transcription of the H-dur
sonata -- that is a headache... The lute part is also in grand-staff
notation and not at all obvious due to various problems. It is one of
the "revised and improved" Rust sonatas... I found only one edition
of
that H-Dur sonata ... adapted for modern guitar. Sad, no?
There is a comments field where you can leave your impressions,
corrections, etc. if you chose to do so.
Alain
To get on or off this list see list information at
[6][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1.
[LUTE] Re: Rust - transcriptions of 21 and 53, I and II
The Krebs concerti will be edited by Stephan Olbertz. We worked on them some months ago and I think the edition will appear soon. Itâs a little bit tricky because of all the variants. Andreas > Am 17.03.2019 um 17:35 schrieb Alain Veylit : > > Thanks for the suggestions, Martyn. > > Actually, I was wondering about the Johann Ludwig Krebs concerto in C > for B. lute and strings. The score is widely available on the Net - > here on scribd: > [1]https://www.scribd.com/document/371003432/Krebs-Johann-Ludwig-C-Dur- > Krebs-WV-202 - or straight from the Berlin Staatsbibliothek: > [2]http://resolver.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/SBB00021159 > > Anybody knows anything about this concerto? It seems to be the one and > only lute piece in Krebs' production, and it is rather ambitious from > an orchestral point of view: lute, 2 violins, viola and cello. I did > not find a trace of a recording of it - Krebs was held in high regard > by J.S. Bach and it s always odd to find the odd lute piece in a > composer's output... The lute part is in tablature, so it should be > less of a challenge than Rust from a transcription point of view. I > found a modern edition of it, which has all the parts ... except for > the lute! > > Happy Sunday, > > Alain > > On 3/17/19 2:53 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: > > You may consider transcribing some of Haydn's wonderful keyboard works > or violin and keyboard or piano trios - careful selection will throw up > works similarly accommoating to the the late lute as the Rust pieces.. > And, of course, some of the Baryton trios can work well with lute in > place of the Baryton... > Might also use the late eighteenth century fashionable > gallichon/mandora too - instead of the 13 course Dm lute... > MH > > On Saturday, 16 March 2019, 21:16:39 GMT, Alain Veylit > [3] wrote: > Those of you interested in late 18th century Baroque lute + > violin/viola > may be interested in transcriptions of Rust sonatas I made that are now > available for viewing: > I. Sonata in C Major for lute and viola (Rust 21). I worked with > Jean-Daniel Forget to see if we could get a playable tablature version > of the lute part. The original MS is in grand-staff notation. I am > interested in performers' feedback, particularly because of arpeggios > on > diapasons. Jean-Daniel thinks it is very feasible, I am still a bit > uneasy with those. I don't think there is another tablature > transcription of that sonata but perhaps there is ... > The link to that is: > [4]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/projects/view/5 > . You will need a login to view that project. It is free and it can put > you on the world map of lutenists, which is a fun little app. > II. and III. I provided transcriptions, also in collaboration with > Jean-Daniel, of the sonatas I (G) and II (Dm) for lute and violin based > on the violin parts from the Berlin Staatsbibliothek and the tablature > part from the Krakow 40150 MS. > The link to those is: > [5]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/projects/view/7. > Finally, I am currently still working on a transcription of the H-dur > sonata -- that is a headache... The lute part is also in grand-staff > notation and not at all obvious due to various problems. It is one of > the "revised and improved" Rust sonatas... I found only one edition of > that H-Dur sonata ... adapted for modern guitar. Sad, no? > There is a comments field where you can leave your impressions, > corrections, etc. if you chose to do so. > Alain > To get on or off this list see list information at > [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. > https://www.scribd.com/document/371003432/Krebs-Johann-Ludwig-C-Dur-Krebs-WV-202 > 2. http://resolver.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/SBB00021159 > 3. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com > 4. http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/projects/view/5 > 5. http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/projects/view/7 > 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > Andreas Schlegel Eckstr. 6 CH-5737 Menziken Festnetz +41 (0)62 771 47 07 Mobile +41 (0)78 646 87 63 lute.cor...@sunrise.ch --
[LUTE] Re: Rust - transcriptions of 21 and 53, I and II
Thanks for the suggestions, Martyn. Actually, I was wondering about the Johann Ludwig Krebs concerto in C for B. lute and strings. The score is widely available on the Net - here on scribd: [1]https://www.scribd.com/document/371003432/Krebs-Johann-Ludwig-C-Dur- Krebs-WV-202 - or straight from the Berlin Staatsbibliothek: [2]http://resolver.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/SBB00021159 Anybody knows anything about this concerto? It seems to be the one and only lute piece in Krebs' production, and it is rather ambitious from an orchestral point of view: lute, 2 violins, viola and cello. I did not find a trace of a recording of it - Krebs was held in high regard by J.S. Bach and it s always odd to find the odd lute piece in a composer's output... The lute part is in tablature, so it should be less of a challenge than Rust from a transcription point of view. I found a modern edition of it, which has all the parts ... except for the lute! Happy Sunday, Alain On 3/17/19 2:53 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: You may consider transcribing some of Haydn's wonderful keyboard works or violin and keyboard or piano trios - careful selection will throw up works similarly accommoating to the the late lute as the Rust pieces.. And, of course, some of the Baryton trios can work well with lute in place of the Baryton... Might also use the late eighteenth century fashionable gallichon/mandora too - instead of the 13 course Dm lute... MH On Saturday, 16 March 2019, 21:16:39 GMT, Alain Veylit [3] wrote: Those of you interested in late 18th century Baroque lute + violin/viola may be interested in transcriptions of Rust sonatas I made that are now available for viewing: I. Sonata in C Major for lute and viola (Rust 21). I worked with Jean-Daniel Forget to see if we could get a playable tablature version of the lute part. The original MS is in grand-staff notation. I am interested in performers' feedback, particularly because of arpeggios on diapasons. Jean-Daniel thinks it is very feasible, I am still a bit uneasy with those. I don't think there is another tablature transcription of that sonata but perhaps there is ... The link to that is: [4]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/projects/view/5 . You will need a login to view that project. It is free and it can put you on the world map of lutenists, which is a fun little app. II. and III. I provided transcriptions, also in collaboration with Jean-Daniel, of the sonatas I (G) and II (Dm) for lute and violin based on the violin parts from the Berlin Staatsbibliothek and the tablature part from the Krakow 40150 MS. The link to those is: [5]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/projects/view/7. Finally, I am currently still working on a transcription of the H-dur sonata -- that is a headache... The lute part is also in grand-staff notation and not at all obvious due to various problems. It is one of the "revised and improved" Rust sonatas... I found only one edition of that H-Dur sonata ... adapted for modern guitar. Sad, no? There is a comments field where you can leave your impressions, corrections, etc. if you chose to do so. Alain To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. https://www.scribd.com/document/371003432/Krebs-Johann-Ludwig-C-Dur-Krebs-WV-202 2. http://resolver.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/SBB00021159 3. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com 4. http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/projects/view/5 5. http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/projects/view/7 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Rust - transcriptions of 21 and 53, I and II
You may consider transcribing some of Haydn's wonderful keyboard works or violin and keyboard or piano trios - careful selection will throw up works similarly accommodating to the the late lute as the Rust pieces.. And, of course, some of the Baryton trios can work well with lute in place of the Baryton... Might also use the late eighteenth century fashionable gallichon/mandora too - instead of the 13 course Dm lute... MH On Saturday, 16 March 2019, 21:16:39 GMT, Alain Veylit wrote: Those of you interested in late 18th century Baroque lute + violin/viola may be interested in transcriptions of Rust sonatas I made that are now available for viewing: I. Sonata in C Major for lute and viola (Rust 21). I worked with Jean-Daniel Forget to see if we could get a playable tablature version of the lute part. The original MS is in grand-staff notation. I am interested in performers' feedback, particularly because of arpeggios on diapasons. Jean-Daniel thinks it is very feasible, I am still a bit uneasy with those. I don't think there is another tablature transcription of that sonata but perhaps there is ... The link to that is: [1]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/projects/view/5 . You will need a login to view that project. It is free and it can put you on the world map of lutenists, which is a fun little app. II. and III. I provided transcriptions, also in collaboration with Jean-Daniel, of the sonatas I (G) and II (Dm) for lute and violin based on the violin parts from the Berlin Staatsbibliothek and the tablature part from the Krakow 40150 MS. The link to those is: http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/projects/view/7. Finally, I am currently still working on a transcription of the H-dur sonata -- that is a headache... The lute part is also in grand-staff notation and not at all obvious due to various problems. It is one of the "revised and improved" Rust sonatas... I found only one edition of that H-Dur sonata ... adapted for modern guitar. Sad, no? There is a comments field where you can leave your impressions, corrections, etc. if you chose to do so. Alain To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/projects/view/5 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
