[LUTE] Re: Tailpieces (was Plucking Room)

[Robert Clair]

That’s  tarogato without the accents.



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[LUTE] Re: Tailpieces (was Plucking Room)

[Robert Clair]

> You might ask why clarinet makers build the instrument with a cylindrical 
> bore, 
> when a conical bore would be a more efficient way to produce sound.  The 
> answer 
> would be that if it’s built with a conical bore, it’s a saxophone.

or more likely a tárogató

,…Bob
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[LUTE] Re: Widening holes at bridge

[Robert Clair]

Without the weird character encoding

pin vise

I’d try a good hardware store. 



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[LUTE] Re: Widening holes at bridge

[Robert Clair]

> Use a hobby drill. (Not sure if that's the real name.)

real name —> “pin vise"



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[LUTE] Re: Spain 2, Italy 1 in extratime

[Robert Clair]

Some rather sweeping generalizations here. 

I’m currently reading Wolf Hall. My knowledge of Tudor England is not what it 
could be so the book often sends me Googling. I every case I’ve encountered 
so far it seems that Ms. Mantel has done her research.

As for adaptations - while I haven’t seen it I’m given to understand that 
The Tudors was done as a bit of a bodice ripper. The BBC  production of Wolf 
Hall is most definitely not. 

Aside from “Ah, Robin” played on lute over the opening, the music falls in 
two categories: Any music that is mise en scene - that the characters on screen 
would have heard - is real 16th C music. (There is a shawm band.)  There is 
also a modern background score of which the best I can say is that it it 
unobtrusive.

Beyond music, the BBC has gone to a staggering amount of work to get the 
visuals correct. Check out some of the material here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02gfy02 


I’ve also just seen the excellent Royal Shakespeare Company production. (Wolf 
Hall and Bring Up the Bodies - 3 hours each on the same day with a break for 
dinner.) Which brings up a question for Ron: Does your antipathy to historical 
fiction extend to the Shakespeare history plays? You could, if you like, argue 
that Shakespeare was a better writer than Ms. Mantel and Mike Poulton (who did 
the RSC adaptation) but is there any fundamental difference in what they are 
doing?



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[LUTE] Re: Tuner with preset temperaments

[Robert Clair]

> On Mar 7, 2015, at 5:36 AM, Anthony Hind  wrote:
> 
> Bob, it sounds as though it combines the best of the expensive Peterson 
> strobe and the temperaments of cleartune, but might it be a little cluttered? 
> Has anyone done a comparison? Does it have the same pitch calibration 
> possibilities as the Cleartune?
> Regards
> Anthony
> 
>> On 5 mars 2015, at 15:31, Robert Clair  wrote:
>> 
>> If you have an iPhone or iPad ( or iPod Touch) check out Pitchlab:
>> 
>> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pitchlab-guitar-tuner-free/id732850624?mt=8
>> 
>> Basic app is free but you’ll probably want to spend the three bucks and get 
>> the full set of displays.
>> Easy to set up, lots of useful things, especially a strobe tuner display.
>> 
>> …Bob
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 

[LUTE] Re: Tuner with preset temperaments

[Robert Clair]

> 
> Bob, it sounds as though it combines the best of the expensive Peterson 
> strobe and the temperaments of cleartune, but might it be a little cluttered?

The various displays are on different views. You can show 1 view on the screen 
or two views side by side. The latter is slightly crowded on an iPhone but just 
fine on an iPad.

> Has anyone done a comparison?

In what sense?



> Does it have the same pitch calibration possibilities as the Cleartune?

It t is very easy to set the temperament, reference frequency, transposition 
and some technical stuff.

Why not download the free version and checkin out yourself?

…Bob



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[LUTE] Tuner with preset temperaments

[Robert Clair]

If you have an iPhone or iPad ( or iPod Touch) check out Pitchlab:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pitchlab-guitar-tuner-free/id732850624?mt=8

Basic app is free but you’ll probably want to spend the three bucks and get the 
full set of displays.
Easy to set up, lots of useful things, especially a strobe tuner display.

…Bob



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[LUTE] Cambridge goes on-line.

[Robert Clair]

http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/crown-jewels-of-english-lute-music-go-online?utm_medium=email&utm_source=alumnewsletter
 


Apologies if someone already posted this.

…Bob
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[LUTE] Re: 2014

[Robert Clair]

Well, if you must:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nlfUAsTZXo
--

And while we're on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew3v568fmq8



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[LUTE] Re: New example for the Lute Art pages

[Robert Clair]

"still life"http://www.epilogue.net/art/21154-i-vampiri-il-liuto Just look at 
that excellent plucking-hand technique! Regards, Daniel


Lute and hand position borrowed from Bartolomeo Veneto:

http://www.getty.edu/art/gettyguide/artObjectDetails?artobj=772&handle=li

..Bob
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[LUTE] Re: Identify Painting?

[Robert Clair]

You're all probably right. I'll blame it on presbyopia - I didn't put on my 
reading glasses and take a close look at the image. But it is curious why they 
used a photo - Alpha seems to use real paintings for their early music CD 
covers. (Including, oddly, a couple of Holbein drawings for two CD's of the 
Bach unaccompanied violin sonatas and partitas.)

..bob



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[LUTE] Identify Painting?

[Robert Clair]

Can anyone identify this painting:

http://www.elroberto.com/pix/LutePicture.pdf

This copy was on some promotional material from the French record label Alpha 
Productions.

thx

Bob



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[LUTE] Re: Rose?

[Robert Clair]

Balsa wood is a bad choice: It's soft fuzzy and not very strong. It *is* very 
light, which is why it is used for model airplanes. I'll leave it to the real 
lute builders to suggest something appropriate, but if you want something that 
is available in a good hobby shop, use basswood. It is stronger, smoother, 
still workable with an X-acto knife and available down to 1/32" thick. It is 
the #1 wood for model trains. :-)

..Bob



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[LUTE] More...

[Robert Clair]

OK. Google before you post.

The album title was "Dance Music of the Renaissance".

It was reissued on CD as "Tanzmusik Der Renaissance" with the band listed as 
Collegium Aureum and a decidedly non-pink cover. (I verified that it is indeed 
the same recording by listening to a couple of the tracks on the Australian 
iTunes store.)

It is irritatingly unavailable in the US either as a CD or a download, despite 
being available in the Australian, Canadian and UK iTunes stores. I was about 
ask my Canadian relatives to get it for me, but I found a used copy at a 
reasonable price on the Amazon UK store.

(Why do I want this? Pure nostalgia - it was the first Renaissance ensemble 
music recording I ever heard.)

..Bob
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[LUTE] Pink Album

[Robert Clair]

A bit of an odd request, but there is an old ( ~ 1960's I think) record of 
Renaissance ensemble music - Susato and such. I don't remember the title but it 
was an RCA record with a very pink jacket. Walter Gerwig played lute in the 
band.

Does anybody have a digitized copy that they would be willing to share? I don't 
think it was ever reissued on CD. I have the LP somewhere but it's buried in a 
storage locker and, anyway, I no longer have a turntable. 

Thanks...

..Bob



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[LUTE] Re: Theorbo shipping within the U.S

[Robert Clair]

My theorbo, which I think is pretty much the same as Howard's, came (years ago) 
from Germany via UPS. Things to be careful of:

* UPS, and probably the others, have size limitations - maximum on length + 
width + height (or length + circumference, I forget which). The theorbo in its 
box was right at the limit.

* Make sure the instrument can't move in the case. Mine shifted in the case and 
sheared off a peg on the upper pegbox. (When it moved the first thing that 
encountered the top of the case was a peg.) Fortunately it was a spare peg for 
an alternate stringing and I just super-glued it back together. Wedge some foam 
between the top of the case and the sturdy part of the upper pegbox.

..Bob



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[LUTE] (Brief) Lute sighting

[Robert Clair]

We went to see Rango yesterday. The film features a Greek chorus in the form of 
a Mariachi band made up of four owls with Mexican accents. At one point Rango 
and the townspeople of Dirt attempt to get close to the bad guys by putting on 
a "thespian performance". The owl guitarist (who also plays banjo in The Flight 
of the Valykyries) briefly switches to lute and the band plays a snippet of 
Sellinger's Round.

It went by so fast I thought I might have imagined it, but Ekko saw it too.

Many jokes over the head of children. How many kids are familiar with Fear and 
Loathing in Las Vegas, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, or Chinatown?

..Bob



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[LUTE] Re: Drewies Accorde

[Robert Clair]

> >I have two parts to Drewries Accordes, but maybe I'm missing something.
> >dt
> 
> One if them is a "reconstruction".

Pretty old reconstruction. :-)
My copy of Jane Pickeringe (the book, not Jane) has both parts. Brogyntyn has 
one part and Ballet allegedly (don't have a copy here) has both parts.
..Bob




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[LUTE] Re: IO read it somewhere, it MUST be true

[Robert Clair]

Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, did we Roman? Grownups do not 
write nasty flame-war-provoking posts at the least (imagined) provocation.  Did 
you even look at the article ? It needs replacing, not editing. While I do know 
more than a few things, I have a book contract with a deadline that is 
currently absorbing any writing energies I have. Writing  an encyclopedia 
article just doesn't fit in my schedule. (Sending an email to the appropriate 
person to see if the article can be removed does.) 

So instead of flying off the handle why not pour yourself a nice glass of wine, 
put some nice relaxing minor key murder ballads on the stereo and calm down.

Cheers,

Bob






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[LUTE] IO read it somewhere, it MUST be true

[Robert Clair]

For a laugh (or to be appalled, as is your nature) take a look at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_in_Elizabethan_Era

This is the single worst Wikipedia article that I've ever seen. There is hardly 
a single word that is correct in the "Instruments" section. The author's main 
source of information on the Elizabethan era and 16th C. music seems to be a 
long ago, dimly remembered visit to the East Dogpatch Renaissance Faire and 
Corne Dogge Festival.

I've seen Wikipedia pages that are marked as having been removed for 
inaccuracies. Does anyone know the procedure for getting an article removed?  
This one is beyond editing.

..Bob


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[LUTE] Re: Hard shell cases for air travel

[Robert Clair]

This comes up periodically, so search the archives. I don't have time  
for the full lecture but a summary:


Choosing a case requires a bit of thinking about what you are trying  
to do. Simply getting a "hard shell case" doesn't solve everything. A  
case can provide some or all the following:


* moisture protection

* thermal protection

* puncture protection

* impact protection

The last is frequently the main problem. An improperly fitted hard  
shell case will provide puncture protection but not necessarily   
impact protection. If the lute can shift in the case, and what stops  
it from moving is a peg or a base rider, they are in danger of being  
sheared off, even in a hard case.


The usual proverb is that it is easy to pack a light bulb and easy to  
pack a hammer, but very difficult to pack a light bulb AND a hammer in  
the same package.  Theorbos and such are a light bulb and a hammer,  
all in one convenient item. The neck is quite massive and if the  
instrument is held vertically and dropped and the only thing that can  
apply force to stop the neck is the join with the body, you have a  
recipe for splinters.


You can solve almost anything with enough money, mass and padding.  
Most oboists just carry their instrument with them. But people who  
play traveling shows and play oboe, flute, sax and what have you, all  
in the same night, often have the instruments moved by the crew. I  
once saw an Anvil case for an oboe (about three times the size of a  
normal oboe case) demonstrated in a store. They put a brand new ($3K  
in 1980, $7K + now) Loree oboe in it and then knocked it off the  
display counter onto the floor. They oboe did better than the  
onlookers' nerves.


..Bob
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[LUTE] Gerwig Recordings on CD

[Robert Clair]

The Gerwig Bach record was reissued on CD at one point.  I walked into  
the (now long gone) neighborhood HMV some years ago and was startled  
to see it.



Johann Sebastian Bach
Werke Fur Laute
Walter Gerwig
M 51538
Cantate Musicaphon Records, Kassel

Their web site lists it as still in print:

http://www.cantate.de/Composers-A-Z/Bach-Johann-Sebastian/Bach-Johann-Sebastian-Works-for-Lute::35.html


..Bob



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[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre

[Robert Clair]

   It is most likely a larger size shawm. Bass and larger 16th C recorders
   usually had a removable cap, often  with a brass band on the end,
   similar to the ones on the fontanelle (the "pepper-pot" covering the
   little finger key). You would see this even if the instrument were
   turned so that the window was facing away from you.  The edge between
   the side and the top of the cap was typically beveled. You don't see
   any of this in the painting. Also, the instrument in the painting is a
   bit slender looking for a recorder of that size, but not for a shawm.
   Compare the painting with the Praetorius woodcuts.
   (Without getting into the theorbo debate, the woodcuts correlate pretty
   well with surviving instruments for the woodwinds.)

   ...Bob


 I'd guess a great bass recorder, especially since there are other
 recorders in the pictures. It's not a bassoon or dulcian. Those have
 a U-shaped structure, and this looks like a single bore instrument.
 FWIW, the only extended tenor shawms I've seen (one of them in our
 loud band) use a slightly bent bocal, not the bassoon-like one in
 the picture, and the top of the instrument is not nearly as broad,
 but there could be other designs I'm not aware of.

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[LUTE] definitions, was Re: Theorbo by Nic. Nic. B. van der Waals for sale

[Robert Clair]

Pretension: state of the string before it is tuned up (BOB).

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[LUTE] Theorbo Relativity

[Robert Clair]

   While I think that Howard has made an excellent beginning on a theory
   of Relativity of Theorbo Toyness, I think it's

   incomplete as it stands. To completely specify whether the theorbo is
   toy or not we need to know if the theorbo is

   in motion relative to the listener, the speed, whether the theorbo is
   oriented perpendicular of parallel to the direction of motion (if
   parallel, the Lorentz-FitzGerald contraction will affect the string
   length) and whether the theorbo is approaching or receding

   (the Doppler effect  will modify the pitch standard).


You can have hours of fun by guessing exactly what "relatively small
size" makes a theorbo a "toy" under Martin's criteria, then changing
the assumed pitch level and doing it again.  Martin misses the fun
because he doesn't acknowledge that pitch is relevant to the question
of instrument size, which spares him a lot of work with the more
advanced branches of mathematics, such as multiplication and division.

The part about Martyn's view of what size theorbos I "favor" -- as if
I actually had theorbo preferences based on size, and there were
someone else on the planet who cared what those preferences were --
is new, I think, and is silly without being funny.  As far as I can
tell, if Martyn thought about such things, he would say my theorbo is
a toy at A92, definitely not a toy at AD0, and probably not a toy
at AA5, before realizing that there was something wrong with his
categorical one-size-fits-all construct.  But he doesn't think of
such things.  Hence the joke.

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[LUTE] Re: Music in hell (slightly off topic)

[Robert Clair]

You're probably looking for The Garden of Earthly Delights by  
Hieronymus Bosch:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Garden_of_Earthly_Delights

Just chock full of fun, "don't try this at home"  things to look at.  
It lives in the Prado in Madrid. It's very famous - you should have no  
trouble acquiring a poster of it.


..Bob






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[LUTE] Re: almost lute

[Robert Clair]

> What's the cover story?  Looks like Mr. Kevelos.  Especially the
> sandals.  Why would the Economist have a luthier on its cover?

It's an article on Iraq - "Iraq starts to fix itself" :


http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11535688


Illustrations in the Economist are rarely identified and often have  
only a symbolic or tenuous connection to the actual article.


..Bob
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[LUTE]

[Robert Clair]

> might be an Oud not a Lute.

That's why the subject heading was "almost lute"  ;-)

..Bob


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[LUTE] almost lute

[Robert Clair]

Check out the cover of this week's Economist.

If you're not near a newsstand, this is the cover image:

http://media.economist.com/images/20080614/2408LD1.jpg

...Bob



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[LUTE] Re: Frets

[Robert Clair]

Another vote for the Turbo-Tuner. "Pencil and paper" gets you close,  
but the calculation is for an ideal string (a cousin of the  
frictionless elephant). It doesn't account for the string's stiffness  
or the increase in tension when you depress it. I keep the Renaissance  
lutes in sixth comma meantone and my Turbo-Tuner arrived I used it to  
fine tune the position of the frets.  The results were pretty  
impressive - no fuss, no muss, beautiful sound.


It does take a bit of time to get used to the LED's. It will also make  
you appreciate the concept of geared tuners - it's a bit difficult to  
make the pattern stand *exactly* still.


As for learning to do it by ear - I think the problem (at least for  
me) isn't learning to hear pure (just) intervals, it's learning to  
hear slight deviations from just intervals. For most unequal  
temperaments the intervals in the "good" keys aren't pure - they're  
just closer to pure than ET. If you start tuning pure intervals you'll  
make some things better, but other things will be worse and you can  
spend an entire evening chasing yourself around the circle of fifths,  
touching up things.


As for those who drag in a moral argument about how much more  
righteous it is to do it by ear ("*They* didn't have fancy  
electronics.") I quote an old Peanuts comic strip where Lucy tries to  
take away Linus's blanket by pointing out the that his friends don't  
need a security blanket. Linus takes his thumb out of his mouth long  
enough to reply "My admiration for all those other well-adjusted  
children is boundless."


I don't have that kind of time and I'd rather practice than tune.


Bob
---
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three."





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[LUTE] Re: New Xmas recording

[Robert Clair]

 > Count 'em THREE theorboes (theorbi, theorbot?)

Yes, but what is the proper collective noun for a  of theorboes ?

..Bob
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[LUTE] Re: Fronimo / pdf file question

[Robert Clair]

This won't help for Fronimo, but if you are on a Mac (10.4 or later,  
maybe even 10.3, I don't remember) and are having a problem like this,  
you can save the file as a PDF-X. Choose File->Print and when the  
print dialog appears pick "Save as PDF-X" from the PDF popup menu  
(bottom left). This will create a PDF, run a script to convert it to  
PDF-X and ask you where to save it.


PDF-X is still a legal PDF with a .PDF filename extension, but it's a  
stricter subset that pre-press people use. Among other things it  
forces it to embed the fonts so a person who doesn't have the fonts  
you used on their computer can still open it properly.


Bob
 




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[LUTE] Re: Poulton #73 [was] dedillo

[Robert Clair]

> Needs reconstruction It lacks a rhythmic sign in ms. 4 and a  
> chord at the end of ms. 20 in the facsimile, I would hardly call  
> that "needs reconstruction"!

Everyone is, of course, free to determine their own needs, but for  
most people things like big 4-3 cadences that resolve on the 4th beat  
of the measure (as happens in the MS in number of places) are usually  
signs that something has gone off the track somewhere and needs fixing.

In his talk last summer Paul had a number of other points, but I  
don't have my notes at hand.

Bob

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[LUTE] Poulton #73

[Robert Clair]

> There's one manuscript source for it, and it's a mess, so every  
> performer has to make decisions about, for example, where rhythm  
> signs should go.

It is in one of the Matthew Holmes manuscripts now in the Cambridge  
University Library. He was evidently tired of copying at that point.  
It's hard to read and full of mistakes - misplaced or omitted  
rhythms, incorrect (as written) counterpoint, cadences on the wrong  
beat, etc. The version in the Poulton book doesn't do much to fix  
things. Paul gave a talk on reconstructing it this past summer at the  
LSA workshop in Vancouver. I don't remember who else was in the room,  
but maybe someone taped it or can write faster than I can and took  
good notes.

Bob

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[LUTE] Marker at the 7th fret

[Robert Clair]

> ha,
> did you noticed: PoD has a marker on the 7th bar!
> i need one too!

The "no marker on the 7th fret" is a self-flagellating lunatic  
classical guitar thing. Someone once asked Paul about this at a  
summer workshop. He explained that he played lots of different  
instruments with widely varying string lengths and finished up by  
saying "I'd rather look stupid than sound stupid".

Bob

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[LUTE] Re: dedillo

[Robert Clair]

> I recently watched a YouTube clip with PO'D, from some  
> instructional TV
> program, where he played the Poulton #73 (Molinaro-dubious-very-fine)
> Fantasia with "dedillo" in the final show-off. I thought that was  
> cool, as I
> play it differently.


Let me gently suggest that you watch the video again. He is playing  
the tremolo with a normal thumb-index alternation. If you're not  
convinced, download the video and watch it with a viewer where you  
can go frame by frame. It's quite clear.

(TubeTV + QuickTime will work on a Mac, can't help with the Redmond  
product.)

Bob

 
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[LUTE] Lute Storage (was Re: hang 'em high)

[Robert Clair]

>  Some of the handier lute players I know-- Jim Lidgett and Bob  
> Clair come to mind -- have rigged up floor-to-ceiling shelf systems  
> that can house a surprising number of instruments in a surprisingly  
> small space.

Metro brand wire shelving (home version of the shelving found in some  
of your classier deli's), comes in black, white and chrome. Standard  
item at a reasonable hardware/home improvement place or off the web.  
Ours was about $100 for a four shelf unit plus another $20 for an  
extra shelf.

Picture:

http://www.elroberto.com/pictures/luteRack.jpg

The shelves are 18" deep by 4' and in most cases you can get two  
lutes on a shelf. The picture shows when we were testing it out. It  
currently holds 8 lutes (floor and bottom three shelves); curtal,  
consort of renaissance recorders on the next shelf; two baroque  
guitars and a couple of shawms piled on top of them on the top shelf.  
All in 6 square feet of precious NYC one-bedroom apartment floor  
space.  (Note that this is a two lute player household.)

...Bob
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[LUTE] Don't try this with your lute. (WAS Re: Gut strings - Tennis-)

[Robert Clair]

2K (not including captions) more words on the subject:

http://www.hiviz.com/gallery/eckerson/impacts/ae-2-12.html

http://www.hiviz.com/gallery/eckerson/impacts/amoz02.html


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[LUTE] Re: Gut strings - Tennis-

[Robert Clair]

> > the rebound speed would be the same as the inbound speed no matter
> > how long the collision took.
>
> Even if someone is swinging the racket (which is highly likely)?

I was thinking of the case of an incompetent player (such as myself)  
who is just going to
hold the racket up to the ball. Of course if you swing, it you will  
impart some kinetic energy to the ball and it will come off faster.  
But the dynamics of the collision are still mostly determined by the  
squishiness of the ball and the stretchiness of the racket stringing.  
To the extent that they are both elastic (don't turn some of the  
energy into heat by internal friction) it doesn't affect the return  
speed of the ball.

> or is there really some
> substance we're likely to find on a tennis racket that will keep
> contact with the ball longer yet send it back faster?  After all,
> we're discussing the difference between nylon and gut here.

No substance involved. Noting is "sticking" the ball to the racket -  
the ball and strings act like springs: they take time to stretch out  
and then return to the original shape.  The stretchier and squishier,  
the longer this takes. A stretchier stringing (weaker spring  
constant) will take longer to slow the ball down and accelerate it  
back in the other direction but it won't affect the return speed.  
(Again, assuming it is mostly elastic which means it eventually  
returns the energy to the ball.)

Try imagining a racket strung with ordinary rubber bands - it might  
give you a mental picture of what is going on.

...Bob



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[LUTE] [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Rép : [LUTE] Re: Gut strings - Tenni s-Lute loveALL

[Robert Clair]

>  Since "power" for his purposes
> is nothing more than ball speed off the racket, any absorbtion of
> energy from the ball

Right - any inelasticity in the collision (the missing energy going  
into heating up the racket, the ball and making satisfying "thwock"  
sounds) will reduce the rebound speed of the ball.

> or delay in rebound


Wrong - if by delay you mean the time it takes for the ball to squish  
into the racket, reverse direction and come off. This time interval  
depends on the "spring constant" involved (essentially the elastic  
characteristics of the ball and the strings) and (roughly) the mass  
of the ball. If the ball and racket strings were perfectly elastic  
the rebound speed would be the same as the inbound speed no matter  
how long the collision took.

> is going to reduce power.

You may now resume restringing your racket or your lute.

...Bob
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[LUTE] Re: Import duty for instrument shipped to US

[Robert Clair]

It depends on where it is coming from (instruments from Canada or  
Mexico should come in free) and what it is classified as. I always  
asked makers to label them as "Reproduction of Antique" which isn't  
(or wasn't, anyway) dutiable where as "Musical Instrument" is.

There are weirdnesses - bagpipes are free (or double ?)

...Bob



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[LUTE] wget (was More Sting!)

[Robert Clair]

Temporary geek out:

wget isn't part of the standard OS X install (at least for Tiger -  
10.4). You have
to get it and install it yourself (fink, whatever)

...Bob


>
> If you run MacOs X, open Terminal (in /Applications/Utilities) and  
> execute
> the command:
>
> wget http://www.youtube.com/watch\?v=dRHutMf7_bU
>
> You have to put a backslash in front of the question mark because a
> question mark has different meaning otherwise.

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[LUTE] Re: re gut strings

[Robert Clair]

> 0.42 on a 67 cm lute in G 440 is ridiculous, you are talking about  
> 5.2 kg on the top string! You would be much better off tuning it to  
> F, a tone lower.


Sorry - I was just trying to clarify the physics. I wasn't paying  
attention to the specific number quoted.

By "just try it" I meant just experiment with gut for a top string  
rather than worrying so extensively in advance
about whether it will break. I wasn't  endorsing that particular  
diameter.

I'm in the "I barely have time to practice let alone fool around with  
stringing"  camp.



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[LUTE] Re: re gut strings

[Robert Clair]

>
Whoops. Meant to say

  "For a given diameter":

> The frequency of the vibrating string (pitch) is proportional to
>
>squareRoot( stress ) /  length.
>
> So for the same pitch,  longer = higher stress (= closer to breaking)
>
> The square root makes things worse: a string twice as long would  
> endure four times the stress in getting to the same pitch.
>
> But remember gut isn't a single well defined substance - the  
> breaking stress will vary somewhat depending on the actual piece of  
> gut.
> Thin gut strings aren't *that* expensive - why not just try it ?
>



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[LUTE] Re: re gut strings

[Robert Clair]

The frequency of the vibrating string (pitch) is proportional to

squareRoot( stress ) /  length.

So for the same pitch,  longer = higher stress (= closer to breaking)

The square root makes things worse: a string twice as long would  
endure four times the stress in getting to the same pitch.

But remember gut isn't a single well defined substance - the breaking  
stress will vary somewhat depending on the actual piece of gut.
Thin gut strings aren't *that* expensive - why not just try it ?





>  I assume that a 0,42 string string raised to G (440 Hz diapason)  
> on a 67 cm lute will break far more quickly than on a 60 cm lute.  
> If on the other hand it is treated as an F lute (or a lower  
> diapason is chosen) the problem could be avoided, or lessened. This  
> would be a stress tension question, and not length per se?




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[LUTE] Re: re gut strings

[Robert Clair]

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: re gut strings
Date:   February 9, 2007 8:33:58 AM EST
To:   lute@cs.dartmouth.edu

The technical aspects aspects of this thread have wandered fairly far  
from reality.

First, there is a small language problem: despite their literary  
incestuousness in common usage, "stress" and "strain" mean different  
things.

Stress is force / area, in this case the tension on the string  
divided by its cross sectional area.

Strain is the percentage deformation of an object under stress:  
change in length / length. Strain isn't particularly relevant here.

A given *material* has a breaking stress. When you break something,  
you have to break atomic or molecular bonds to pull the pieces apart.  
This requires a specific amount of force for a given material. If I  
have two strings made out the same material, one thicker than the  
other, I'll have to pull harder on the thicker one to break it  
because I have to break more bonds.

This has an interesting consequence: when you write the equation for  
the pitch (frequency ) of a string in terms of stress rather than  
tension, the diameter of the string disappears. For a given length  
and material, the pitch at which the string breaks doesn't depend on  
the thickness.

True, at a given pitch the thicker string is yanking harder (greater  
tension) on the bridge, but it's the stress not the tension that will  
break it. If you're still unhappy with this, think of it this way -  
the thicker string is under more tension, but that tension is being  
handled by more molecular bonds.

Note that this has nothing to do with the length. The tension in a  
string is the same everywhere along its length. If it weren't it  
would immediately reconfigure itself so that it was. That it feels  
like more tension when you pluck near the bridge is mostly a matter  
of geometry. (Trying to displace the string sideways by some amount  
will have a bigger component of tension perpendicular to the string  
when you're near the bridge. You're also trying to bend the string at  
a sharper angle, so the stiffness of the string material will have a  
greater effect near the bridge.)

As a practical matter, very thin strings are probably more fragile  
because nicks and minor wear and tear take a bigger chunk (as a  
percentage) out of the area of thinner strings. This can make the  
stress at the point of the damage exceed the breaking stress.

Last point (for those whose eyes have not yet glazed over): Most  
lutes have the same length for the fingerboard strings and have the  
first several courses strung in the same material. This means that  
only the chanterelle would ever be near the breaking pitch. Pity your  
friends the baroque harp players who get different pitches  by  
keeping tension and diameter (and thus stress) roughly the same and  
varying the length. They can have many strings near their breaking  
pitch. They break lots more strings than we do.

Bob Clair













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[LUTE] Baroque Lute Discography Help Requested.

[Robert Clair]

I'm editing an issue of the LSA Quarterly and I'm trying to assemble  
a discography of CD's that have baroque lute chamber music.

For my purposes, define "baroque lute ensemble music" as music for  
more than one instrument, where one at least one of the instruments  
is a baroque lute doing something *other* than playing continuo.

For each CD I need

1) CD Title
2) Lutenist
3) Composers represented.
4) Label

To avoid cluttering up the list please send replies to

  ensemble (at) elroberto (dot) com

Thanks...

Bob Clair
  




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[LUTE] Re: alckenhagen query

[Robert Clair]

>

> The engraving of Fal(c)kenhagen is made by J.W.Stoer from Nurnberg
> after 1732.
> Hope this helps

Thanks, but what I am looking for is where was it published and where  
might one find a facsimile of
whatever it was published in.

Bob
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[LUTE] Falckenhagen query

[Robert Clair]

Does anyone know the original source of this engraving of Falckenhagen ?

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b77207810

or

http://www.yorkgate.ram.ac.uk/emuweb/objects/common/webmedia.php? 
irn=1466&reftable=ecatalogue&refirn=2165

Thanks


Bob Clair



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[LUTE] Today Show

[Robert Clair]

A video is at:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12065856/

Look under "Tuesday's Videos" for a link "Sting on his new album"

Those who haven't had their minimum daily requirement of schlock will  
appreciate the candles.

As Dan said, they do "Come again". Sting plays his single-strung  
whatever, Edin plays a (definitely double strung) 8 course lute made  
by Ray Nurse. I'll leave the enthusiasts to decide whether the sound  
needs to be blamed on something and if so whether it is the player or  
the recording.  It's not the instrument - I've played that one and it  
makes a lovely sound.

...Bob



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[LUTE] Re: POD new album

[Robert Clair]

The physical version exists. The Tower Records near Lincoln Center in  
NY has an ample supply.

Bob



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[LUTE] Re: OT: list of visual artists also active as professional or competent amateur musicians/composers

[Robert Clair]

You forgot Maitsse (violin)

My memory is hazy, but I think you can see his violin in the museum  
in Nice.

...Bob



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[LUTE] one more...

[Robert Clair]

..and Benvenuto Cellini  (cornett)





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[LUTE] Re: 8-course lute literature?

[Robert Clair]

If you have an 8 course lute and wish to play 6 course repertoire as  
it might sound on a 6-course (as others have noted there is nothing  
wrong with playing it on an 8 course, as is) two  things will help:

1) put an octave on your fourth course

2) weave a small piece of cloth or felt into the 7th and 8th courses  
to temporarily damp them and prevent them from ringing sympathetically.


...Bob 



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[LUTE] Re: Liuto Forte

[Robert Clair]

>

> Sonically it's pretty trivial - you can't really hear the double  
> stringing unless the strings are out of tune.

But they always are - at least slightly. Try googling "chorus effect".

...Bob
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[LUTE] metal frets and loud lutes

[Robert Clair]

It's deja-vu al over again. Didn't we go through this once already ?

"The LSO [Lute Shaped Object] is louder because  its metal frets  
don't absorb energy like compliant gut frets" ?

In the words of Berke Breathed "another beautiful theory destroyed by  
ugly facts".

It just doesn't stand up in practice and you can easily verify this:

1.) Unlike most people discussing this I once actually did the  
experiment. When I was in graduate school I purchased a 10 course  
lute made by Reid Galbraith. The previous owner had paid my friend  
John the guitar maker to put metal frets on it. After I bought it I  
paid John to remove them. It didn't make any noticeable difference in  
the instrument's volume.

2.) You *can* try this at home. Go to the hobby store and buy a piece  
of brass rod slightly thicker than the frets on your lute. Cut a  
short piece and tack it in place as a temporary fret with a bit of  
double stick tape. Play a few notes. Is your lute suddenly louder ? I  
thought not.

3.) Object that (2.) isn't valid because the metal fret isn't  
properly anchored in a slot ?  Do the reverse experiment. Take a  
modern guitar and tie a temporary gut fret (nice and thick)  
somewhere. Play a few notes. Is your guitar suddenly vastly quieter ??

4.) Too world wear to do either (2.) or (3.) ? Just pick up your  
lute. Play a few notes both open strings and fretted notes. There is  
a subtle difference in tone quality (as there is on a metal fretted  
guitar) but are the open strings (upper end of the string stopped by  
decidedly un-compliant bone) really a lot louder than than the  
fretted strings (upper end of the string stopped by finger against  
compliant gut) ???

As we say in the trade... "Next theory, please."

---

On a different aspect of the same discussion - there is at least one  
case where the evolution of an instrument made it significantly  
*softer*. A baroque oboe is a much quieter beast than a soprano shawm.

.Bob




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[LUTE] Re: String Pitch

[Robert Clair]

> on eBay to a woman in NY who seemed thrilled to acquire it so I  
> probably decided that they were
> hard to find.

More likely for the same reason people are happy to find a good used  
lute when getting started: available now rather than at the end of a  
maker's waiting list.

...Bob



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[LUTE] Re: String Pitch

[Robert Clair]

> The pitch was all over the place as indicated by contemporary texts  
> being as low as A-329 and as high as A-460.

Could you provide an example contemporary text that specifies the  
pitch in Hertz (I'll settle for cycles per second since it seems Mr.  
Hertz didn't get around to being born until 1847) ? Most assessments  
of historical pitch are made on the basis of surviving organs and  
woodwind instruments. A large number of surviving 16th C. woodwinds  
play at roughly 1/2 step above modern pitch (~ A460).

There are current day ensembles that play at high pitch (due in  
significant part to Mr. Bob Marvin who makes superb copies of 16th C  
recorders and refuses to make them at A440).

There are also written and pictorial accounts of lutes playing  
ensemble music with winds that are probably at high pitch. This of,  
course, says nothing about whether they were transposing at sight or  
considered their lute to be at some other pitch than G.

> 415 recorders, oboes, et al are getting harder to fin a

Uhhh. Have you tried looking at the lists of serious woodwind makers  
(ie. individual builders, not Moeck, etc.)? I think you would find it  
hard to find a professional/serious amateur oboist, bassoonist, etc  
who would spend even a second considering an A440 instrument.  
Recorders are a different matter because of the large number of not  
so serious amateurs, but most good builders offer mainly low pitch  
instruments with a token modern pitch model or two.

...Bob
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[LUTE] Re: Right hand

[Robert Clair]

>> Then press down until the first joint starts to bend backward.  
>> This is what
>> he's talking about avoiding. You don't want the fingers to bend  
>> backwards.
>> Oddly enough, his own fingers can't do that so he had to find  
>> someone who's
>> fingers would in order to better explain it.
>
> Are you sure? My understanding is that you WANT to have the distal  
> joint
> relaxed, to the point where it bends backwards (extension). What  
> you want to
> avoid is actively flexing (bending) the distal joint forward, which  
> produces
> the tense hand position and harsh tone.

My understanding also - what you want to avoid is flexing the tip  
inward to pluck, or holding it there (which I can assure you from  
vast experience doing it even though I don't want to, causes all  
kinds of tension and horrible sound). Letting the tip be relaxed and  
passively extend backwards puts more flesh on the string and gives a  
nice basic tone. There's always that possibility that I've had wax in  
my ears for ages and heard wrong but I've had years of lessons with  
Pat and I think you misunderstood something.

Bob
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[LUTE] Re: wksu on LuteFest

[Robert Clair]

Re: The slide show.

Contrary to popular belief, I do occasionally replace frets.

Bob



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[LUTE] people with too much time on their hands (mathematician division)

[Robert Clair]

Mathematicians discover the false string!

http://www.acoustics.org/press/151st/Leger.html

Be sure and scroll down to look at the instrument and listen to the  
sound examples

Not much to do up there in Moncton during the winter, eh ?

Be the first in your crowd to ask your favorite luthier for a quote  
on a TriBaroqueLute.

...Bob





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[LUTE] Re: Memorization

[Robert Clair]

There seem to be a lot of straw men and unsupportable declarations  
going on here.

Where I come from,  "sight-reading" means playing at first sight, not  
just any playing from a piece of music: A new, previously unseen  
piece of music of music is placed in front of you and you play it, as  
best you can.

There is a vast territory between sight-reading and memorization. It  
is quite possible to have studied a piece of music , thought about  
it, made interpretive decisions  about it and played it many. many  
times without having it memorized. Such a performance will be a far  
cry from sight-reading even if it is not from memory.

>  HAs it ever occurred to you that all orchestral (and most small- 
> ensemble)
>  music is sightread, always?


By this definition orchestral and small-ensemble music is hardly  
sight reading, even if played from music. For a normal subscription  
concert a major orchestra will have had probably three rehearsals  
with the conductor as well as private wood-shedding if the piece is  
new to the musicians. (Most standard repertoire pieces will probably  
already be familiar, possibly to the point of boredom.)


> In an orchestra the players are acting as a sequencer and their job  
> is to
> reproduce the written music accurately. The musical value comes  
> from the
> conductor - who usually has the score in front of him, but, if he's  
> any
> good, he doesn't actually need it. That's why experiments with
> conductorless orchestras are generally flops.

This is silly and a bit of an affront to orchestral musicians. A  
conductor may set the tempi, the general interpretation and make some  
specific requests, but the actual performance - especially in any  
exposed parts - will depend heavily on the artistry of the player.  
Try listening to the same piece, same conductor but different  
orchestras, preferably one top tier ensemble and one second tier. If  
you can't hear the difference (and it is not because the players in  
the lesser orchestra aren't playing the correct pitches at the  
correct time and duration) you are wasting your money going to live  
concerts. A mechanical playing of a MIDI file with a good synthesizer  
should do it for you.

The Orpheus Chamber orchestra plays without a conductor. You may not  
care for the results, but it is hardly a flop. Note that "no  
conductor" doesn't mean "no leader". For the purposes of starting and  
stopping and such, somebody has to drive. If I remember from an  
article I once read, Orpheus rotates "leader" by the piece. Also note  
any number of performances of piano concertos with major orchestra  
and famous conductor/pianist "conducting from the piano." There will  
be  extended passages where the conductor has both hands heavily  
occupied on the keyboard, yet there is no sudden decline into a flop  
in those passages.


.Bob
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[LUTE] Re: Inquiry

[Robert Clair]

Also -

While it is baroque music on the lute, I don't think it was baroque  
lute. I think Gerwig played those things on a 10 course lute in  
renaissance tuning.

...Bob



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[LUTE] Re: Question on Lute stringing

[Robert Clair]

> My "flat-back" is 63.5 cm VL, and I tune it to G. But there is no  
> musical
> string that will hold that at that length.

Another beautiful theory destroyed by ugly facts. We have two 65 cm  
ten course lutes (almost identical) and they are often kept at G  
(A440) with either nylon or nylgut trebles. I can't remember the last  
time one broke - years probably. The tensile strength of the  
materials is adequate; if you are breaking strings that easily you  
should check the nut and bridge to make sure that there is nothing  
rough that is nicking the string.


> It is an anomalie
> of materials that all strings of the same material have the same  
> breaking
> pitch (given the VL) no matter the guage

I wouldn't call it an anomaly. The breaking point occurs at a  
particular (material dependent) stress. Stress is force per area -  
the tension divided by the cross sectional area of the string. (Think  
of it like this: the thicker the string, the more molecular bonds you  
have to pull apart to break it, so greater total force required. The  
only thing that is characteristic of the material is the force  
require to pull *one* bond apart. This is roughly what the breaking  
stress measures.) It just turns out that when you juggle the equation  
describing a string to express pitch as a function of stress instead  
of pitch as a function of tension, the diameter of the string drops  
out of the equation.

It could be worse - on a lute only the first string is near the  
breaking pitch. On a harp (because the string length varies) you can  
have many strings near the breaking pitch.


Bob




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[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Robert Clair]

> But its proponents make specific claims about the structure of Mozart
> (and, in rather a leap of logic, its effect on children) that would  
> not
> be true of Bach, Scriabin, Shostakovich, Hindemith, Machaut, Dowland,
> or Gesualdo.  They're not true of Mozart in many cases, of course.


I  thought that the structure of Mozart was conventional and  
relatively uncontroversial: head, torso, two arms, two legs, the  
usual minor appendages, etc. But there does seem to be some current  
excitement about his skull:

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp? 
id 060103142609990011&cid`1


Bob Clair
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[LUTE] Re: OT - shawm ensembles

[Robert Clair]

> I remember hearing the teachers shawm
> band at Amherst early music many years ago, and I remember
> being struck with how perfectly in tune the four experts
> were.  I also remember that none of the student ensembles were  
> anywheres
> close to being in tune!

A couple of reasons:

1.) They are just damn hard instruments to play. It hurts. This seems  
always have been the case: there are at least a couple of woodcuts  
that show very early renaissance ensembles playing three part music  
with two shawms and a slide trumpet. But there are always four  
musicians: Three shawm players - two playing and one rubbing his jaw.

2.) Until recently many of the instruments available were basically  
junk. The original sopranos and altos were in seven fingers down D  
and G respectively (study the Praetorius woodcut). Almost all of the  
surviving originals are pitched in the neighborhood of A460. The  
"mass market" makers (Moeck, Korber, etc) wanted instruments that  
were in C and F at 440. (Can't trouble those recorder players too  
much). This is a difference of a minor third. By any sensible theory  
this means that your scaled copy should be almost 20% longer. They  
didn't do this - they made the instruments somewhat longer and did  
the rest by making the finger holes smaller. The result is an  
instrument that is much more unstable and unpleasant to play than a  
reasonable literal copy of the original. That some people are able to  
play them in tune is even more of a testament to their skill than you  
had previously imagined.

As for recordings of reasonably in-tune playing:

The Boston Shawm and Sackbut Ensemble made a tape a long time ago I  
don't know if they'd have any left.

There is a recording of the Praetorius dances by the Ricecar Ensemble  
(Michel Piguet) that has some shawm tracks.

I think there are also some on the more recent Phillip Picket  
recording of the same.

Some of the Hesperian XX recordings of Spanish ensemble music have  
tracks with shawm.

The early Hesperian XX recording of "Musique de Joie" has some "we're  
just learning how to do this, folks" tracks if you are amused by  
hearing otherwise competent professionals playing out of tune.

Bob Clair
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[LUTE] STOLEN LUTE

[Robert Clair]

Lute stolen in New York City, on 12/7/05:

8 course tenor lute after Magno dieffopruchar by Grant Tomlinson,  
Vancouver, BC, Canada
64 cm
17 yew ribs

Still checking for the date of construction, but before 1997.

Any information please contact:

Robert Clair
212 876 8024

rclair [at] elroberto [dot] com
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[LUTE] Re: HI cases.

[Robert Clair]

One of the paintings I remembered:


The famous picture of 3 women musicians by the Master of the Half- 
Lengths:

http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/m/master/female/

(First picture on the page) shows an open case hanging on the wall  
behind the women.


Bob



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[LUTE] Re: HI cases.

[Robert Clair]

[Not at home - so can't check in my books.]

I think there are a number of pictures that show lute shaped hard  
cases with hinged openings. The hinge runs perpendicular to the  
strings, roughly somewhere between the rose and the bridge. The part  
below this was fixed to the case, the part above the hinge (the  
larger part) opened to allow the instrument to be put away.

There is also at least one extent recorder case (a series of hard  
tubes, bound together).

I don't see any reason to think that they were any less competent at  
case making than they were at instrument making.

Bob




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[LUTE] Re: Nocturnal

[Robert Clair]

I don't know of any actual evidence that this was originally written  
for lute.

>

> I think Bream mentions it in his book, 'A Life on the road'. In the
> manuscript there is a seven-note chord originally intended for the  
> lute.
> When Bream asked Britten about it, he said something along the  
> lines of
> 'play six notes, but think seven!'.

This isn't what the book (_A Life on the Road_ - about Bream but by  
Tony Palmer) says:

on page 87:

'At first he thought he might write a lute piece for me. He adored  
the lute. I said, well, that would be marvelous, but there are not  
many lute players around, so if you're going to write a piece that  
has a chance of being heard and played regularly, then the guitar is  
the instrument. He too was a very practical man and I think he got  
the point. He obviously thought about the piece for a long time, and  
obviously still had the sound of the lute in his head, because  
towards the of Nocturnal he uses the guitar in such a way that you  
can almost believe you're listening to a lute. In other words, he  
made the guitar sound the way *he* wanted it to sound.'

and a bit later:

'When the piece first arrived,' Bream told me, 'I found I didn't have  
to change anything, not one note. It's the *only* piece written for  
me of which that is true. Oh yes, except for one tiny blemish where  
Britten had contrived to place two notes on the same string, which  
was naturally impossible to play. When I pointed this out to him he  
was simply horrified! It was as though you'd pointed out some  
terrible gaff in his social behavior. He said "Oh my God!" Julian!  
How did I *do* that?" And I said "Well, Ben, there it is. There's a B  
flat and a C sharp, and I've only got one A string to play them on."  
He looked at it, and he looked at it again, and he then he said;  
"Look I'll tell you what Julian. Let's put one of those notes in  
brackets, so that when you come to play the piece, play the C sharp  
and just think of the B flat...'


Simultaneous notes on the first and third fret of the fifth string is  
not a problem likely to have come from a lute to guitar transition.


...Bob
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[LUTE] Re: Who wants to sell "New Boy" a lute?

[Robert Clair]

I don't think lutes from good makers are particularly expensive (yes  
I mean $3K-$4K and up).

For an education, check out the prices for professional quality  
examples of other instruments.
A new Loree oboe is $4500+ , a Haynes or Powell flute the same or  
more, Heckel bassoons go for prices more commonly associated with  
automobiles and thinking about violin prices is truly scary.

The problem with the lute is that, because of the nature of the  
instrument and the low demand, there isn't the equivalent of the  
serviceable student model that is commonly available for guitar or  
band instruments.

...Bob



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[LUTE] Re: Jakob Live

[Robert Clair]

> Hello everyone!
>
> A little tip for Sunday October 30:
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/earlymusicshow/pip/884bb/
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Peter

Just a note -

You can listen to the Saturday and Sunday editions (they do 2 a  
weekend) of the BBC Early Music show on the web for one week after  
they are broadcast.

Links to listen are on this page:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/earlymusicshow/

Bob
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[LUTE] Re: New Boy wants lute

[Robert Clair]

>


> BTW, metal frets (aside from being fixed) do ruin the sound.

On what do you base this statement ? I'm one of the few people (I  
think) who have actually done the experiment. A long time ago I  
bought a (non-battleship) lute that someone had inexplicably taken to  
a luthier for fretting with metal frets. I then paid the same luthier  
(a friend who spared me no ribbing about lunatic lute players) to  
remove those frets and fill the slots in the finger board. The  
difference between the instrument with metal frets and the same  
instrument with gut frets was... not audible. One might expect a  
slight difference since the gut is more compliant than metal and is  
thus a source of a bit of extra damping, but any such difference is  
tiny and much smaller than the difference in sound between different  
string types.

You can check for yourself: take a small metal rod (the point of a  
cheap pencil compass will work) and slip it under the string near a  
fret. Hold it *FIRMLY* in place and, using a bit of contortion, hold  
it and fret the string with one hand and pluck with the other. (You  
may also use an assistant, preferably one with a  dazzling smile and  
a sequined costume.) Remove it and pluck again. Repeat several times.  
Did you notice the sound being ruined ?

Most lutes that you encounter with metal frets *do* sound terrible -  
but that's because they are most likely to be heavy, guitar-like,  
"battleship" lutes. The terrible sound is the fault of their design  
and construction not of the metal frets.

I'm certainly not advocating metal frets - I like unequal  
temperament, being able to replace them myself and besides, metal one  
just plain look ugly.

But I'm always amazed when people make sweeping generalizations based  
on little to no evidence.

Bob


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[LUTE] Re: OT: tuning in 19th century London

[Robert Clair]

Modern guesses at old pitch are usually based on surviving organs and  
woodwind instruments. I think there is a table of historical organ  
pitches in the Dover edition of _On the Sensations of Tone_, but my  
copy is packed away at the moment.

Most woodwinds cannot really be tuned - things like pulling out  
joints or crooks or using bigger reeds affect the upper range more  
than the lower range and the net effect is that, while the pitch of  
the lowest note is lower, the basic scale is thrown out of whack. Up  
to a point a skillful player can compensate for this but the  
instrument is really happy only at its design pitch.

Most 16thC woodwinds were made in one piece (really untunable for  
flutes and recorders). They were also frequently made as sets by one  
maker and (one hopes) tuned to each other.

The variability of pitch standard in the 18thC is shown not only by  
organs but by woodwinds (most of the ones I've seen are flutes, but  
also oboes and recorders) with alternative center joints for playing  
at different pitch standards. I think there is a picture of a flute  
with 5 or 6 different centers in _The Look Of Music_ , the catalog  
from the exhibition at the Vancouver museum in the 1980's (packed  
away again).

.Bob



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Beer bottles and lute rosettes: a frank discussion

[Robert Clair]

0