[LUTE] Re: Julian Brean has died

[Roland Hayes]

   Lute music at the Royal courts of Europe. Most amazing collection of
   pieces still.

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   From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
on behalf of Leonard Williams
   
   Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:02:25 PM
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Julian Brean has died

  His LP "Dances of Dowland" introduced me to the sound of Elizabethan
  lute music, c. 1970.  Got me hooked.
  Leonard Williams
  -Original Message-
  From: Rainer 
  To: Lute net 
  Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2020 4:12 pm
  Subject: [LUTE] Julian Brean has died
  [1]https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-53777949
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  [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
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[LUTE] Re: Bartolotti music for theorbo

[Roland Hayes]

   While the unascribed pieces could by someone else, they surely play and
   sound like Bartolotti.

   Is there any other theorbo player from that time that we know of, who
   could match the style and technique of these pieces?

   r

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   From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
on behalf of Monica Hall
   
   Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2020 3:10:50 PM
   To: yuval.dvo...@posteo.de ; LuteList
   
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bartolotti music for theorbo

   Thanks for this.
   I have the Moscardi edition but he doesn't give any reasons for
   thinking the pieces are by Bartolotti.
   Unfortunately with lockdown I can't visit the library to check any
   other sources but if I do eventually find some evidence I will let you
   know.
   Cheers
   Monica
   > On 04 June 2020 at 17:03 yuval.dvo...@posteo.de wrote:
   >
   >
   > Maybe it's worth to take a look on some of the literature? There is:
   >
   > Boetticher: RISM B VII, p. 351-352 (rather useless, but he gives a
   bunch
   > of literature which I don't know)
   > Meyer (ed.): Sources Manuscrites en Tablature III/1, S. 121-125 (he
   > doesn't give any information on the other theorbo pieces, but I
   > apparently in the lute part of the mansucript there's a piece by
   > "Angelin de Rome" which Meyer supposed to identify as Bartolotti as
   > well. And also there you'll find a lot of literature.)
   > And there's a new edition by Massimo Moscardo: „A. M. Bartolotti,
   Pièces
   > pour théorbe“, Paris (SFL) 1995, which could be worth to check!
   >
   > Please keep us informed, in fact I'm very curious what you're going
   to
   > find on this subject :-)
   > Yuval
   >
   > Am 04.06.2020 17:45 schrieb Monica Hall:
   > > Thanks Martyn
   > > That's very helpful.
   > > Regards
   > > Monica
   > >> On 04 June 2020 at 14:35 Martyn Hodgson
   > >>  wrote:
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>Dear Monica,
   > >>No - I don't know if there are any grounds for attributing the
   > >> other
   > >>tiorba pieces in this Ms to Bartolotti other than, of course,
   being
   > >>adjacent in the same Ms. Incidentally the attribution of the
   > >> Allemande
   > >>(Allemanda di Angelo Michiele) is on f.89r. not 92r.
   > >>The following Corrente with a variatione on 88r to 87v
   (reversed
   > >>folios) seems stylistically very close to the Allemanda, as
   does
   > >> the
   > >>concluding Sarabanda with its variatione, so I'd be happy to
   accept
   > >>these as part of a suite by the same composer AM.  The fact
   that
   > >> the
   > >>earlier Ms pieces for tiorba (ie from 92 to 89) do not have the
   > >>attribution to AM might suggest they're not by him, but
   > >>regards,
   > >>Martyn
   > >>
   > >>On Thursday, 4 June 2020, 09:56:59 BST, Monica Hall
   > >> wrote:
   > >>Ms. 17706 in the Austrian National Library in Vienna includes
   10
   > >> pieces
   > >>for theorbo usually attributed to Bartolotti. The Allemanda on
   > >> f.92r is
   > >>attributed to Angelo Michiele. Does anyone know on what grounds
   the
   > >>other nine pieces are attributed to Bartolotti?
   > >>Thanks
   > >>Monica
   > >>--
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   > >>[1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   > >>
   > >>--
   > >>
   > >> References
   > >>
   > >>1. [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   > >>

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[LUTE] Re: Fuenllana "author. D."

[Roland Hayes]

   F for "facil" easy and D for "dificil" difficult...

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   From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
on behalf of Tristan von
   Neumann 
   Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 10:56:03 AM
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Fuenllana "author. D."

   That's interesting!
   Seems to be a Spanish thing? Valderrabano has three grades of
   difficulty
   also assigned to the pieces.
   Mudarra marks only the easy pieces. (Which I find not so easy, there
   are
   some hard stretches if you want to sustain correctly)
   On 15.01.20 16:54, Ralf Mattes wrote:
   >
   >> Am 15.01.2020 um 16:23 schrieb Mumin Lute
   :
   >>
   >>Dear collective wisdom,
   >>This could be ridiculously silly question because of my lack of
   some
   >>very basic knowledge, but it would be very much appreciated if
   anyone
   >>could direct me to the right answer...
   >>In Fuenllana's Orphenica Lyra,
   >>what does " D " or "F" in   the heading of the piece stand for?
   >> It first appears on fol.17v as "Fantasia del author. .D.",
   capitalized
   >>and coloured in red.
   > IIRC that indicates the difficulty of the piece.
   >
   >   Cheers, RalfD
   >
   >>The following pieces apparently are fantasia by the author
   himself,
   >>the explanatory title on the top of the
   >> page says "Fantasia a quattro, Fuenllana." without any other
   >>attributions, so I guess the letter is not the initial of a
   composer.
   >>"F" is another mysterious letter on
   >> the heading..e.g. "Motete a quatro de Gombert. .F." on
   fol.50v... . I
   >>was inclined to think F is for Fuenllana but it obviously is not
   ..
   >>Regards,
   >>Tomoko
   >>.
   >>
   >>--
   >>
   >>
   >> To get on or off this list see list information at
   >> [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   >

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[LUTE] Re: historically accurate concerts

[Roland Hayes]

   I have played Weiss at a candle lit Advent labyrinth for a church. Like
   a slow meditative walk.

   This year I am playing deVisee on theorbo.

   Preludes work well. Gavottes and gigues not so much.

   The biggest problem is lighting to see the music.

   r

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   From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
on behalf of George Torres
   
   Sent: Monday, November 18, 2019 1:41:56 PM
   To: Tristan von Neumann 
   Cc: Lute List 
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: historically accurate concerts

  Eight hours?  That's a heck of a party!  Nevertheless,
   congratulations
  Tristan!
  Peripherally related, and just for kicks and giggles…the following
  quotes are from the Burwell lute tutor:
  "The lute is a noble instrument, not made for debaucheries, ranting
   or
  playing in the streets to give serenades to Signora Isabella.  ‘Tis
   a
  grave and serious music for modest and sober persons, and for the
  cabinet rather than for a public place…this instrument requireth
  silence and a serious attention."
  "The lute is a closet instrument that will suffer the company of but
   a
  few hearers, and such as have a delicate ear, for the pearls are not
   to
  be cast before the swine."
  "To play in taverns, that never happened but to a man in Paris (who
   was
  paid for his abuse by some learned of the lute, that made cinnamon
  beaten in breaking the lute upon his head) "
  Cheers,
  Jorge
  On Nov 18, 2019, at 8:48 AM, Tristan von Neumann
  <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
  Here's one thought:
  Lute concerts are often given in large halls or churches, though
   they
  are not really attracting a huge crowd.
  Huge crowds are also not really the setting in which lutenists
  florished
  back then.
  Recently, I had been invited to play the lute at a 30something
   birthday
  party on saturday night, a crowd of about 40 people max. Not one of
   the
  guests had probably ever heard Renaissance music.
  The host assured me that he wanted this and would deny any requests
   for
  other music from the stereo.
  It was a two bedroom late 1800s apartment with 11.5 ft./3.50m
   ceilings
  and all doors were open, I played in a 215 sqft/20 m � room where I
   sat
  on a chair in the corner at a table lit with a lamp.
  So I played straight from my 500+ p. book (message me if you are
  interested in my selection), for about 8 hours (it actually felt
   more
  like two).
  There was no programme, I just selected pieces on the fly according
   to
  "room temperature". There were sight-reading glitches, but no one
  noticed or cared.
  The reactions were very positive and no one complained about the
   music
  though most of the people normally listened to house, electro and
   other
  non-early musical styles.
  The music was described as:
  * never annoying
  * with a huge range of emotions
  * very pleasant for conversation
  * very interesting to listen to if you care to come close
  * filling the whole apartment (!)
  This was probably a setting more historically accurate than
   listening
  to
  French chanson intabulations in a church.
  The acoustics were perfect for a full and clear sound.
  I found this house concert situation very pleasing. You need to say
  goodbye to silence though. But having conversations to lute music is
   a
  whole other experience, as is playing lute for people not
   consciously
  listening most of the time.
  You end up with two or three people sitting closer and listening,
   the
  rest enjoying the atmosphere.
  I would highly recommend this experience.
  What are your experiences with house concerts? Has anyone ever
   played
  in
  the background?
  To get on or off this list see list information at
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   References
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[LUTE] Re: RH folk style

[Roland Hayes]

   I play lots of finger pick blues and the technique is very similar to
   baroque lute technique. I use fingerpicks to avoid getting calluses on
   the right hand. And keep the pinky on the top. Works!
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   From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
on behalf of Leonard Williams
   
   Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2019 10:45:40 AM
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
   Subject: [LUTE] RH folk style

  I recently viewed a video of Joan Baez on guitar.  Finger picks, but
  with a slightly modified thumb-in and pinky firmly anchored on the
  soundboard. (Good political protest song, BTW.)
  Leonard Williams
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[LUTE] Re: Test 9od temperament)

[Roland Hayes]

   Or you could get a meantone tuner and use your ears and not a measuring
   tape
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   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
   of Martyn Hodgson 
   Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 4:52:38 AM
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu ; Steve Ramey
   
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Test 9od temperament)

  Dear Steve,
  Yes - the recent leading topic of the day (lute fretting
   temperaments)
   also suddenly dried up!
  Perhaps it's to do with advocates of various unequal temperaments
  being put on the spot to actually give the fret positions they
  supposedly
  employ.
  Also see below
  MH
  
  Martyn Hodgson  wrote:
Haven't got anything from the list for a couple days.  This is
   only a
test.
Steve
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[LUTE] Re: Bach and the lute

[Roland Hayes]

   I say "e."
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   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
   of Mark Probert 
   Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 2:41:44 AM
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
   Subject: [LUTE] Bach and the lute

   Hi all.
   At the risk of opening a can of worms, does anyone have any theories
   of why there are not more (any) works by J.S. for what was, arguably,
   the finest solo instrument of his day?  I can think of a few possible
   reasons:
   a. He wasn't paid to write for lute;
   b. Being an organ/keys/violin guy, he was unfamiliar with lute idiom
   and thought it better to stick to his knitting rather than have
   someone like SLW poo-poo him;
   c. Related to (b), there was no point when SLW was already doing what
   he was doing;
   d. He did write for the lute, it just got lost/burned/eaten by the
   family dog/etc.;
   e. Anything he wanted to say on the lute he could express on a keyboard
   so there was simply no need for him to go there.
   Or is this simply conjecture and best left to the existing "lute
   suites"
   to have the final word?
   Wonderingly
.. mark.
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[LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute

[Roland Hayes]

   When asked why he practiced three hours a day at age 85 Pablo Casals
   said "because I think I am getting better"
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   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
   of Leonard Williams 
   Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2019 7:30:40 AM
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute

  Doctors and lawyers practice because they know what they're doing; I
  practice because I don't. (after 40 years, but you're way ahead of
   me ,
  Martin!)
  Leonard Williams
  -Original Message-
  From: Alain Veylit 
  To: Lute List 
  Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2019 3:23 am
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute
  Isn't that what keeps it interesting though?
  On 6/22/19 1:50 PM, Martin Shepherd wrote:
  > This reminds me that even after 40 years I'm still hardly
   beginning
  to
  > understand how to do this.
  >
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[LUTE] Re: De Visee

[Roland Hayes]

   Now that's what i'm talking about! Great sounding nails. How
   politically incorrect these days!

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   From: Roland Hayes
   Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2019 12:59:35 PM
   To: Christopher Wilke
   Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: De Visee

   Thank you so much!
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   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
   of Christopher Wilke 
   Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2019 10:13:56 AM
   To: Roland Hayes; M Del; magnus andersson
   Cc: Yuval Dvoran; John Mardinly; jslute; Lute
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee

  It sounds sumpin' like this:

   [1]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2f2a8IQiXH0=OLAK5uy_k-OxLE7w5P5Fx
  bDhFpl82dnQRVDnvHVFo=24
  The entire album was recorded with nails, in the naivite of my youth
  before I realized that HIP means "What's Allowable Now."
  [2]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
  On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 7:25 PM, Roland Hayes
   wrote:
I don't doubt that 17th century players who used nails had nice
  finish
on their nails and a nice sound as a result.
My curiosity is what does solo theorbo music sound like when
competently  played with nails?
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From: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   on
  behalf
of M Del <[5]terli...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 5:57:33 PM
To: magnus andersson
Cc: Yuval Dvoran; John Mardinly; Roland Hayes; jslute; Lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
My first guitar teacher Rolando Valdes-Blain taught his students
   to
  use
finely crushed pumice stone and leather from a deer (it happened
   to
  be
a piece from a hunter friend).Rolando was old enough to play on
   gut
strings until he came back from WW2.
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 7, 2019, at 5:20 PM, magnus andersson
<[6]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
>  Dear collective wisdom,
>  From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been
  around
>  since  at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,
Corbetta
>  (who we know had
>  to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still
   pay
his
>  fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Visà ©e
   had
found
>  a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing
their
>  strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
>
>  "the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
cleanly; In
>  the manner that all small touches of the string may be
   schietto,
like
>  pearl[s]"
>  /Magnus
>
>  On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
>  <[7]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
>Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document
   good
nail
>polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I
would
>love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from
   telescope
>  lenses
>and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The
chamois
>stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not
   much
better
>in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among
those
>  who
>play with nails.
>A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
>On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
>  <[1][1][8]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
>wrote:
>Hahahaha good point!
>To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
remember
>you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of
  years
to
>polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
>("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb
   jslute
><[2][2][9]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
>  Dear All:
>  Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
build
>  lutes and
>  craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to
file
>  and
>  polish
>  their nails.
>  Jim Stimson
>  Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
    >   Original message 
>  

[LUTE] Re: De Visee

[Roland Hayes]

   I don't doubt that 17th century players who used nails had nice finish
   on their nails and a nice sound as a result.
   My curiosity is what does solo theorbo music sound like when
   competently  played with nails?
   Get [1]Outlook for Android
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   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
   of M Del 
   Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 5:57:33 PM
   To: magnus andersson
   Cc: Yuval Dvoran; John Mardinly; Roland Hayes; jslute; Lute
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee

   My first guitar teacher Rolando Valdes-Blain taught his students to use
   finely crushed pumice stone and leather from a deer (it happened to be
   a piece from a hunter friend).Rolando was old enough to play on gut
   strings until he came back from WW2.
   Sent from my iPhone
   > On May 7, 2019, at 5:20 PM, magnus andersson
wrote:
   >
   >   Dear collective wisdom,
   >   From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been around
   >   since  at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,
   Corbetta
   >   (who we know had
   >   to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still pay
   his
   >   fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Visée had
   found
   >   a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing
   their
   >   strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
   >
   >   "the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
   cleanly; In
   >   the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto,
   like
   >   pearl[s]"
   >   /Magnus
   >
   >   On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
   >wrote:
   > Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document good
   nail
   > polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I
   would
   > love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from telescope
   >   lenses
   > and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The
   chamois
   > stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much
   better
   > in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among
   those
   >   who
   > play with nails.
   > A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   > On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
   >   <[1][1]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
   > wrote:
   > Hahahaha good point!
   > To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
   remember
   > you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of years
   to
   > polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
   > ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
   > <[2][2]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
   >   Dear All:
   >   Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
   build
   >   lutes and
   >   craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to
   file
   >   and
   >   polish
   >   their nails.
   >   Jim Stimson
   >   Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
   >   ---- Original message 
   >   From: John Mardinly <[3][3]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
   >   Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
   >   To: Roland Hayes <[4][4]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
   >   Cc: Lute List <[5][5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   >   Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
   >   More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of the
   >   modern
   >   files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly
   prepared
   >   nails give
   >   a terrible result for both sound and playability. My
   teacher
   >   back
   >   in
   >   1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia
   >   prepared
   >   his
   >   nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a
   saw-cut
   >   slot in
   >   it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden block.
   The
   >   nail was
   >   then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the slot,
   which
   >   acted as
   >   a track to guide the nail. When I began to study metallurgy
   and
   >   the art
   >   of cross-sectioning and polishing metals to view their
   >   microstructure,
   >   I experienced a revolution in materials to polish the nails
   >   that
   >   were
   >   quickly adopted by many people playing with nails.
   >   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   >> On May 6, 2019, at 3:34 PM, Roland Hayes
   >   <[6][6]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
   >   wrote:
   >>
   >> Do we think he played w

[LUTE] De Visee

[Roland Hayes]

   Do we think he played with nails? Lutenists did not as I understand,
   but

   I have always thought his lute pieces were merely arrangements of
   guitar/theorbo pieces. For those instruments we can establish the use
   of nails.

   And if deVisee played guitar with nails, then he most likely played
   theorbo with nails as well. Yes? Glue on nails had yet to arrive on the
   scene.

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[LUTE] Re: Angelo Michel Bartolomi

[Roland Hayes]

   Thank you.  Steur shows it but without a link. Do you know its location
   or how to see it? Thank you again. r
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   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
   of yuval.dvo...@posteo.de 
   Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 9:39:10 AM
   To: Roland Hayes
   Cc: Lute List; lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Angelo Michel Bartolomi

   There are two more pieces for theorbo in GB-NH Fh 3431.c, as far as I
   know.
   Am 24.03.2019 14:19 schrieb Roland Hayes:
   > Aside from Goess theorbo ms and Vienna 17706, does anyone know of
   more
   >theorbo pieces by this virtuoso, including any modern editions?
   > Thanks
   >in advance. r
   >
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   >
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   > entity
   >to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is
   >privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under
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   >intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
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   > prohibited.
   >If you have received this communication in error, please notify us
   >immediately by telephone and return the original message to us at
   >i...@legalaidbuffalo.org --
   >
   > References
   >
   >1. [2]https://aka.ms/ghei36
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
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[LUTE] Angelo Michel Bartolomi

[Roland Hayes]

   Aside from Goess theorbo ms and Vienna 17706, does anyone know of more
   theorbo pieces by this virtuoso, including any modern editions? Thanks
   in advance. r

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[LUTE] Re: baroque lute duets

[Roland Hayes]

   Scribd has Doug Towne's baroque duets.
   Get [1]Outlook for Android
 __

   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
   of Roman Turovsky 
   Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2019 10:59:09 AM
   To: b...@symbol4.de; richa...@ptd.net
   Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: baroque lute duets

   [2]http://polyhymnion.org/swv/adue2.html
   RT
   On 3/23/2019 10:51 AM, b...@symbol4.de wrote:
   >
   > Gesendet: Samstag, 23. März 2019 um 15:15 Uhr
   > Von: "Richard Brook" 
   > An: "Jay F." 
   > Cc: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" 
   > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Best luthier to make a 1728 Edlinger/problems
   with
   > new Cepelak lute
   > Hi B lutenists
   > On a different question.
   > Do you know where I might acquire any Baroque lute duet sheet
   music? I
   > have some duets but just for B lute and flute.
   > Thanks
   > Dick Brook
   >
   >
   > Hi Dick! I changed the subject line..
   >
   > Have a look here
   >
   [1]http://www.sf-luth.org/index.php?Partitions/Le_Secret_des_Muses
   >
   > volume 29.
   >
   > for French baroque lute duets.
   >
   > A beautiful transcription of BWV 814 (3rd french Suite)
   >
   > [2]http://www.luteduo.com/en/product/j-s-bach-lute-duo-book-2/
   >
   > Kind regards
   > B
   >
   > References
   >
   > 1.
   [3]http://www.sf-luth.org/index.php?Partitions/Le_Secret_des_Muses
   > 2. [4]http://www.luteduo.com/en/product/j-s-bach-lute-duo-book-2/
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity
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References

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   2. http://polyhymnion.org/swv/adue2.html
   3. http://www.sf-luth.org/index.php?Partitions/Le_Secret_des_Muses
   4. http://www.luteduo.com/en/product/j-s-bach-lute-duo-book-2/
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Sv: Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky

[Roland Hayes]

   I meant almost the right position. I think most people need to turn the
   hand to get the thumb onto the low basses.
   Get [1]Outlook for Android
 __

   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
   of magnus andersson 
   Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 5:10:21 PM
   To: Lex Eisenhardt; Lute Net
   Subject: [LUTE] Sv: Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky

  I think we have plenty of evidence to support the use of fingernails
   at
  least for archlutes and theorboes...
  Piccinini, Silvius Weiss and Mace are three figures that give
   testimony
  to this practice, the latter two although not necessarily in favour
   of
  it.
  [1]Skickat från Yahoo Mail för iPhone
  Den onsdag, mars 6, 2019, 9:16 em, skrev Lex Eisenhardt
  :
Almost no nails?
L
Van: Roland Hayes [[1]mailto:[2]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org]
Verzonden: woensdag 6 maart 2019 21:02
Aan: lex.eisenhardt <[2][3]lex.eisenha...@gmail.com>
Onderwerp: Re: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the
   pinky
I would add "almost"
Get [3]Outlook for Android

   _
From: [4][4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
  <[5][5]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
behalf of lex.eisenhardt <[6][6]lex.eisenha...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 2:37:05 PM
To: Ron Andrico; Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky
No nails? On the theorbo?
Lex
Verzonden vanaf mijn Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.
 Oorspronkelijk bericht 
Van: Ron Andrico <[7][7]praelu...@hotmail.com>
Datum: 06-03-19 20:30 (GMT+01:00)
Aan: Lute List <[8][8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Onderwerp: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the
   pinky
  Thank you Martyn.  It's about time we all sorted out this
  popular
  misconception.  I have encountered several classical
   guitarists
who
  still think their right hand position must be completely
  altered
to
  play lute, and it's a surprise to them when I say that their
  hand
  position is probably optimal for baroque lute and theorbo -
perhaps
  minus the nails.
  RA
__
  From: [9][9]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
<[10][10]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
behalf
  of Martyn Hodgson <[11][11]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
  Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 3:55 PM
  To: Lute List; Ron Andrico
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the
   pinky
  Indeed.  I well recall Eph Segerman remarking several
   years
ago
that
  the obsession with thumb-under was, and for many
   remains,
  an
attempt
  by
  some modern lutenists to distance themselves from the
   hated
  classical
  guitar which, ironically, many had started out on!
  As you say Ron, the evidence is very clear
  MH
  On Wednesday, 6 March 2019, 13:08:10 GMT, Ron Andrico
  <[12][12]praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Perhaps the mis-remembered quotation is a conflation
   of
Besard
and
Vallet, who recommended thumb-index for fast passages.
  Nevertheless,
music from around 1600 forward in time should be
   played
  with
the
  thumb
out if we are to follow the written advice and the
iconography.  I
still see far too may baroque lute and theorbo players
  using
thumb-under, which is patently absurd given both the
historical
precedent and the physical layout of extended bass
instruments.
  Isn't
it about time lute players moved forward from the
  guitarist
versus
lutenist nonsense from the 1970s and played according
   to
actual
historical examples?
__
From: [1][13][13]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
<[2][14][14]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
  on
  behalf
of Martin Shepherd <[3][15][15]mar...@luteshop.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 8:23 AM
To: 

[LUTE] Re: Gut Diapasons >180cm

[Roland Hayes]

   You could try tying a leader to the peg box end and hope that as you
   bring it to pitch the leader ends up wrapped around the peg and the
   string makes it over the nut and reaches your pitch.
   Get [1]Outlook for Android
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   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
   of Edward C. Yong 
   Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 9:41:25 PM
   To: Lute List
   Subject: [LUTE] Gut Diapasons >180cm

   hi everyone,
   where does one find gut strings for diapasons longer than 180 cm? a
   young friend has diapasons that are 182.5cm, and the Aquila 180cm
   strings are too short to fit!
   thanks for the help :)
   best,
   Edward
   To get on or off this list see list information at
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   This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity
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[LUTE] Re: Johann Kropfgans

[Roland Hayes]

   Apologies. I meant trio for lute violin and cello. r
 __

   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf
   of Markus Lutz <mar...@gmlutz.de>
   Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 7:11:22 PM
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Roland Hayes
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Johann Kropfgans

   In one of the lexika of the end of the 18th or beginning of the 19th
   century there is a remark, that Johann Kropfgans wrote 32 lute trios,
   but I cannot say at the moment, in which one it is written.
   We only have some complete trios in Brusseles and in Berlin.
   In Brusseles there probably are some even written by himself.
   Best regards
   Markus
   Am 15.05.2018 um 23:43 schrieb Arthur Ness:
   > Hi Stephen,
   >
   > You got it ! ! !
   >
   > 
   >
   > 12 Trios lute, violin âcello in B-Br Ms II 4088.  Also the
   Pichler
   > piece in Ms II 4087 (viii) according to Tim Crawford.
   >
   > Meyer, Christian. "Les Manuscrits De Luth Du Fonds Fétis
   (Bruxelles,
   > Bibliothèque Royale Albert Ier, Mss II 4086-4089)." Revue Belge
   De
   > Musicologie / Belgisch Tijdschrift Voor Muziekwetenschap, vol.
   50,
   > 1996, pp. 197â216. JSTOR, JSTOR, [1]www.jstor.org/stable/3687046.
   >
   > Also listed with complete titles in Boetticher's RISM VII
   inventory,
   > pp. 62-4. These were from the Fétis collection and may have been
   > acquired from the Breitkopf auction of 1832 (can't find my
   notes). The
   > catalogue is extremely rare, but is about 1 ½ inches thick.***
   > Breitkopf decided to empty their warehouse of outmoded music.
   What a
   > treasure!!  Unique copies of some of the Bach lute pieces were
   among
   > the offering.
   >
   > Stephan Olbertz, "An Unknown Lute Piece in a Keyboard Manuscript
   with
   > Works by Wilhelm Friedemann Bach," JLSA 44 (2012): 1-22.
   >
   > ***Copy in the University Library, Amsterdam (NO Longer in the
   > Amsterdam public library).
   > Enjoy, Roland!
   >
   >
   >
   >  Arthur Ness
   >
   > arthurjn...@verizon.net
   >
   > -Original Message-
   > From: Stephan Olbertz <stephan.olbe...@web.de>
   > To: 'Lute Net' <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   > Sent: Tue, May 15, 2018 4:24 pm
   > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Johann Kropfgans
   > Think of the galant lute trio like a piano trio... You get the
   idea ;-)
   > Best
   > Stephan
   > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
   > Von: lute-[2]a...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   [[3]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
   > Im Auftrag von Stewart McCoy
   > Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Mai 2018 21:05
   > An: Lute Net
   > Betreff: [LUTE] Johann Kropfgans
   > Dear Roland,
   > Iââ¬â¢m afraid I donââ¬â¢t know about these trios by 
Johann
   > Kropfgans, but I
   > would very much like to know more about them. I see from a quick
   search
   > on the internet that Kropfgans wrote chamber music for the lute,
   violin
   > and cello, including one in C minor, but I see no evidence of
   lute
   > trios. It is possible that Lutz Kirchhof made his own lute trio
   > arrangements from those chamber music pieces, but Iââ¬â¢m only
   > guessing.
   > Hopefully youââ¬â¢ll be able to find out more.
   > Best wishes,
   > Stewart.
   > From: [1]Roland Hayes
   > Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 7:10 PM
   > To: [2]Wayne ; [3]Stewart McCoy
   > Cc: [4]lute net
   > Subject: Johann Kropfgans
   > He wrote 32 lute trios? What are the sources? I just heard one in
   c
   > minor w/ Lutz Kerchoff. Outstanding!! r
   > --
   > References
   > 1. [4]mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
   > 2. [5]mailto:wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   > 3. [6]mailto:lu...@tiscali.co.uk
   > 4. [7]mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   >
   > --
   >
   > References
   >
   > 1. [1]http://www.jstor.org/stable/3687046
   > 2. [2]mailto:a...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   > 3. [3]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu?
   > 4. [4]mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org?
   > 5. [5]mailto:wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu?
   > 6. [6]mailto:lu...@tiscali.co.uk?
   > 7. [7]mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu?
   > 8. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   >
   --
   Markus Lutz
   Schulstraße 11
   88422 Bad Buchau
   Tel  0 75 

[LUTE] Johann Kropfgans

[Roland Hayes]

   He wrote 32 lute trios? What are the sources? I just heard one in c
   minor w/ Lutz Kerchoff. Outstanding!! r
 __

   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
   of Wayne 
   Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 10:36:29 AM
   To: Stewart McCoy
   Cc: lute net
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: The article by Annette Otterstedt about David
   Dolata's book about tuning

   Hi Stewart -
 Yes, the copy of the article on my web page is now forbidden.  And
   you *don’t* want to get involved with the three-headed dog!
Wayne
  I tried
   >   accessing Otterstedt's review on line again this morning, but
   without
   >   success. Apparently it is now "forbidden".
   >
   >   Stewart McCoy
   To get on or off this list see list information at
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   This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity
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   intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
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   If you have received this communication in error, please notify us
   immediately by telephone and return the original message to us at
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References

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[LUTE] Re: gallot

[Roland Hayes]

   Does anyone have a Gallot works cnrs edition for sale? r
 __

   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
   of Roman Turovsky 
   Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 2:52:44 PM
   To: Ron Andrico; Lutelist Net
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: New post on Unquiet Thoughts

   always thought Tony Rooley was a bit of a charlatan.
   RT
   On 3/24/2018 11:03 AM, Ron Andrico wrote:
   > After a long hiatus, we have finally posted the first in our new
   series
   > of Saturday morning quotes.
   >
   > [1]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4jy
   >
   > Ron & Donna
   >
   > --
   >
   > References
   >
   > Visible links
   > 1. [1]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4jy
   >
   > Hidden links:
   > 3. [2]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4jy
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity
   to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is
   privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable
   law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or
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   intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
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   If you have received this communication in error, please notify us
   immediately by telephone and return the original message to us at
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References

   1. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4jy
   2. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4jy
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Mozart on the lute

[Roland Hayes]

   Aside from Scheidler's song from Don Giovanni, does anyone know of
   intabulations contemporary or modern of Mozart's music? r

   --


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[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G

[Roland Hayes]

Mentioned by a few people in early 1600s; Praetorius for one. r

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Bruno Figueiredo
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 12:37 PM
To: Edward Chrysogonus Yong
Cc: Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G

   I have no doubt. It would work as a lute in g with reentrant tuning.

   2016-03-17 13:14 GMT-03:00 Edward Chrysogonus Yong
   <[1]edward.y...@gmail.com>:

 Hi Lutefolk!
 Just a thought - would a theorbo in G be useful for playing continuo
 in flat keys?
 Edward Yong
 
 II?III? I.I>>IuI-oIII?I 1/2I^1I-oII 1/2 II+-III'II?I 1/4IuI-I?I 1/2
 IuI-o IuI-I|II 1/2I?I IuI 1/4IuI IuIII 1/4II,I..
 HA| litterA| electronicA| ab iPhono missA| sunt.
 aeCURe>>aaeuae>>P:c, 1/4eae-oe-aaa 3/4iPhonea
 This e-mail was sent from my iPhone.
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --
   Bruno Figueiredo

   Pesquisador autA'nomo da prA!tica e interpretaAS:A-L-o
   historicamente informada no alaA-ode e teorba.
   Doutor em PrA!ticas Interpretativas  pela
   Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro.

   --

References

   1. mailto:edward.y...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: theorbo tuning experiment

[Roland Hayes]

Tune it to F# and it's an archlute at Roman pitch, sort of. r

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Geoff Gaherty
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 11:50 AM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: theorbo tuning experiment

On 2016-01-15 10:26 AM, Bruno Cognyl-Fournier wrote:
> Has anyone ever experimented tuning a theorbo like a guitar with an E
> top string, no re-entrant tuning? to facilitate the player with reading
> a continuo part from music notation?  this would essentially give the
> same tessitura as a regular theorbo and allow to play the melody on the
> top string instead of mucking around on the 3 rd string...
> what would be the top string gauge suggestion for a 74 cm string

Mid-East sells "baroque lutes" tuned this way:

http://www.mid-east.com/Strings/Roosebeck-Lutes/Roosebeck-5-9-Baroque-Lute

The scale length is 660mm, also similar to a guitar.  Clearly these are aimed 
at classical guitarists who want something that behaves somewhat like a guitar, 
rather than a lute.  For any lutenist who is not also a guitarist, this would 
be a nightmare to play.

Geoff

--
Geoff Gaherty
Foxmead Observatory
Coldwater, Ontario, Canada
http://www.gaherty.ca
http://starrynightskyevents.blogspot.com/



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[LUTE] Re: Satie Gymnopedie 1

[Roland Hayes]

Ask Albert Reyerman. r 

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Edward Chrysogonus Yong
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 1:42 PM
To: Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] Satie Gymnopedie 1

hi Lutenetters!

years ago i bought a copy of Erik Satie arranged for lute. i cannot for the 
life of me find it nor can i recall what edition it was. all I can recall is 
that it had Gymnopedie 1 in it. 

would anyone have a copy and be able to scan Gymnopedie 1 for me?

many thanks,

Edward




τούτο ηλεκτρονικόν ταχυδρομείον εκ είΦωνου εμεύ επέμφθη.
Hæ litteræ electronicæ ab iPhono missæ sunt.
此電子郵件發送于自吾iPhone。
This e-mail was sent from my iPhone.



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[LUTE] Re: Tiorba

[Roland Hayes]

Re: the theorbo, were Brossard and Campion (7 or 8 on the petit jeu, single 
strung) outliers as well? Maybe just by being French.  r

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Martin Shepherd
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 5:25 PM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tiorba

Not sure what this comment means.

Perhaps it refers to Castaldi having apparently used single strings on his 
theorbo, as did some 17th century (and most modern) players. Hardly a 
justification for using all single strings on any other kind of lute - and even 
with the theorbo the evidence of the surviving instruments is overwhelmingly in 
favour of 6 (and only 6) double courses on the fingerboard and single basses.

As for the use of wound strings, there is no reason to suppose they were ever 
used on lutes with extended basses, and certainly not on any kind of lute 
before about 1650, if ever (they are not mentioned by Mace or Burwell, for 
instance, both of which date well after the invention of some kind of wound 
string).

I have no objection to people playing whatever instruments they like (Bach on 
the 5 string banjo, for instance), but they are attempting to deceive their 
audience if they claim some kind of historical justification for practices 
which go so clearly against the historical evidence.

M

On 16/06/2015 22:54, Roland Hayes wrote:
 ..and Castaldi's illustration is phoney? r

 -Original Message-
 From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On 
 Behalf Of Ron Andrico
 Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 3:29 PM
 To: mar...@luteshop.co.uk; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tiorba

 Thank you for this, Martin.nb= sp; The un-historical continuo
 instrument has become the norm with the ma= ny faux baroque orchestras
 we see here in the US, as is true with many ot= her aspects of their
 music and performance style. ; It's tiresome to = the ears of the
 cognoscenti and rather undermines the efforts of those of u= s who
 attempt to emulate historical examples.
 RA
 ; = Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 20:47:20 +0200
 ; To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu   ; From: mar...@luteshop.co.uk
 ; Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tiorba;
 ; What bothers me is that we now see the totally
 = gt; single-strung (with wound basses, of course) liuto
 attiorbato as th= e
 ; standard modern continuo instrument in everything from Dowland= to
 ; Vivaldi. As far as I'm concerned, it's a modern folk in   strument.
 ; Nothing wrong with it except the claim that it is som= ehow
 historical.
 ;
 ; M

 = --


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[LUTE] Re: Tiorba

[Roland Hayes]

..and Castaldi's illustration is phoney? r

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Ron Andrico
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 3:29 PM
To: mar...@luteshop.co.uk; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tiorba

   Thank you for this, Martin.nb= sp; The un-historical continuo
   instrument has become the norm with the ma= ny faux baroque orchestras
   we see here in the US, as is true with many ot= her aspects of their
   music and performance style. ; It's tiresome to = the ears of the
   cognoscenti and rather undermines the efforts of those of u= s who
   attempt to emulate historical examples.
   RA
   ; = Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 20:47:20 +0200
   ; To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu   ; From: mar...@luteshop.co.uk
   ; Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tiorba;
   ; What bothers me is that we now see the totally
   = gt; single-strung (with wound basses, of course) liuto
   attiorbato as th= e
   ; standard modern continuo instrument in everything from Dowland= to
   ; Vivaldi. As far as I'm concerned, it's a modern folk in   strument.
   ; Nothing wrong with it except the claim that it is som= ehow
   historical.
   ;
   ; M

   = --


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[LUTE] Re: 19c theorbo?

[Roland Hayes]

His libro primo also I believe. r

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Martin Shepherd
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 10:54 AM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] 19c theorbo?

Dear Collective Wisdom,

Is there any music apart from that in Kapsberger's Libro Quarto which calls for 
a theorbo of more than 14 courses?

Thanks for your help,

Martin


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[LUTE] Re: Ren lute as sub for theorbo

[Roland Hayes]

I suggest its origins were for the solo singer to accompany himself (Peri, 
Caccini, others in Italy ca. 1600).  Salamone Rossi calls for it in 
instrumental dances very early, and it makes sense with one on a part strings - 
the chords and the basses plucked really stand out.  From there to the trio 
sonata and competent continuo players being included along with lutenists and 
keyboardists in early productions, and a sort of tradition developed despite 
the many drawbacks you list, Chris. 

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Christopher Wilke
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2014 11:41 AM
To: Geoff Gaherty; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Martyn Hodgson
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Ren lute as sub for theorbo

Martyn,

On Mon, 11/3/14, Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 
   If you believe the
 lute 'works well'  and is 'quite audible' for
   continuo in ensemble, such as that
 required for a Bach harpsichord
   concerto, why do you think the theorbo was  ever invented?

I've often wondered how the theorbo ever became a thing myself. What an 
improbably solution it offers for musical issues! And what an awkward, ungainly 
thing it is to master and use idiomatically! Strange fingerboard tuning... 
Limited melodic range... inability to double most vocal lines for support, 
especially when accompanying shaky singers... harmonic register placed in an 
undistinguished mid-range that is easily covered by others in even small 
groups... Campanellas are neat, but they take a lot of additional dedicated 
practice time to master and are virtually useless in ensemble playing other 
than in the most exposed passages. The basses, of course, sound great! They can 
be used to incredible effect - IF the bass line is diatonic for the tuning you 
happen to have during that section of the piece... and fairly slow moving... 
sans lots of leaps... without requiring a surplus of articulation... or too 
many ascending scalar passages that will ring...
 and you've also spent tons of time practicing to securely find your way 
through the forest of strings. (Know that the director will invariably want the 
theorbo to be the sole accompaniment instrument for the prima donna's 
passionate chromatic lament in B-flat minor at the opera's heart-rending 
denouement. He will announce this only as you're tuning up immediately before 
the opening show.) Volume is an asset. However, aside from the beauty of the 
open basses, the overall sound doesn't project especially well and so is more 
evident to the player than the listeners. It does look cool, however.

I speak as someone who has played a lot of theorbo. My very first album was 
dedicated to solo theorbo music. I still love the instrument and its 
repertoire. However, considering all the time I've had to put into becoming 
competent and considering the challenges of the medium versus the acceptability 
of then-current alternatives (i.e. Renaissance lute), I've often pondered why 
the ancients ever bothered to embrace this cranky beast as enthusiastically as 
they did. My guess is it caught on because it looked cool back then, too. ;-)

Chris




Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A.
Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
www.christopherwilke.com


On Mon, 11/3/14, Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Ren lute as sub for theorbo
 To: Geoff Gaherty ge...@gaherty.ca, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Monday, November 3, 2014, 10:47 AM
 
    If you believe the
 lute 'works well'  and is 'quite audible' for
    continuo in ensemble, such as that
 required for a Bach harpsichord
    concerto, why do you think the theorbo was  ever invented?
  
    __
 
    From: Geoff Gaherty ge...@gaherty.ca
    To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
    Sent: Monday, 3 November 2014, 13:42
    Subject: [LUTE] Re: Ren lute as sub for  theorbo
    On 2014-11-03, 8:18 AM, Christopher Wilke
 wrote:
     Ren lute is absolutely fine. When I  played in the Collegium at
    Eastman,
    Paul (O'Dette)
 occasionally sat in with us continuo players. He
    always
    used his 8 course
    I played continuo on my 7-course
 renaissance lute for many years in a
    baroque ensemble class at the Royal
 Conservatory of Music in Toronto.
    Although I own an archlute, the 7c was  much more portable, easier to
    play, and sounded just fine.  Some
 chords were awkward because of the
    tuning, but otherwise it worked well, and  was quite audible in our
    ensemble of 5 or so.  Heck, I even
 played continuo in a Bach
    harpsichord
    concerto!
    Geoff
    --
    Geoff Gaherty
    Foxmead Observatory
    Coldwater, Ontario, Canada
    [1]http://www.gaherty.ca
    [2]http://starrynightskyevents.blogspot.com/
    To get on or off this list see list
 information at
    

[LUTE] St Matthew Passion lute part Komm Susses Kreuz

[Roland Hayes]

   No. 57, Aria, has a lute part and I am curious if anyone has performed
   it, it looks like it might fit on the instrument (d minor lute) fairly
   well.  Thanks in advance. r

   --


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[LUTE] Re: how to use Korg OT-120 for Pythagorean tuning?

[Roland Hayes]

I use my tuner at 415 and 6th comma meantone.  First I tune the open strings.  
Then I select pitches I know I need on the strings at certain frets and move 
the fret to get the pitch right.  So a piece with D Major I would want a good 
F# on fourth course 1st fret, so I'll try to move the fret to match the pitch.  
(Baroque lute, also for 1st course. )  Many frets involve trade-offs, good for 
some notes, false for others.  Often you can see a composer's familiarity with 
this situation in the composition. r  Luis Milan comes to mind.  r 

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
WALSH STUART
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 3:24 PM
To: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] how to use Korg OT-120 for Pythagorean tuning?

I only have a vague idea about temperaments and I have a Korg OT-120 and I'd 
like to try some out. With ET it's just a matter of setting the thing to 440 
(or whatever) but with non-ET I don't know what to do.

Do you have to define the fundamental note from which the non-ET scale starts? 
I have a simple psaltery and a gittern. The psaltery's lowest note is G below 
middle C but perhaps it would be better to think of the C as the main note 
(which goes down to G and upwards from C). I have no idea what to do with the 
tuner.

The gittern is different again. I know that modern-day lute players move some 
of the frets (second and fourth I think) . But what would they do using  a 
tuner?

Any ideas  or help would be much appreciated.

Stuart

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[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed we got so far away from the [LUTE]-forum

[Roland Hayes]

If you play enough Hagen, S.L W. starts to sound outdated. r

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Dan Winheld
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 4:47 PM
To: erne...@aquila.mus.br; Jarosław Lipski
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed we got so far away from 
the [LUTE]-forum

Is it just me, or is there not something ironic about a serious minded 21st 
century LUTE-list member finding a great 20th century musical icon (think of 
him what one will otherwise) outdated?

No doubt Mel Neusidler found papa Hans outdated. Maybe Downland thought he was 
outdated. Nicolas Vallet thought they were all outdated. (Of course S.L. Weiss 
isn't outdated!)

Kind of like a Revolutionary War re-enactor scorning the martial skills and 
accomplishments of General Eisenhower in WWII as- outdated.

Dan


The Segovia film is nice in its own way, it was probably interesting for at 
least a part of the audience at the time it was recorded, sounds completely 
outdated and boring for most people today, and may be rediscovered in the 
future for some reason we would never even think of.
Is it somehow related to the lute?

On 12/18/2013 9:22 AM, erne...@aquila.mus.br wrote:
   
 Bream played something thought to be a lute in his own time, so he may be 
 discussed here?
 Had Segovia anything to do with the lute besides the repertoire? And if it is 
 the repertoire, may we include Andre Rieu here? He also plays some of the 
 most extended lute repertoire...
 I think Jimi Hendrix also has a lot to do with the lute - his characteristic 
 rythmic flamboyance is directly associated to the liberties taken in lute 
 performance, were musicians are free from dogmas imposed by some phonographic 
 industry product player. Or thus I understand it, in my very personal 
 interpretation of the lute.
 And the arab / turkish / syrian lutes in use nowadays?
 And so it goes...

 Ernesto Ett
 11-99 242120 4
 11-28376692



 Em 18.12.2013, às 14:00, Jarosław Lipski jaroslawlip...@wp.pl escreveu:

 Segovia could have been polite and gentle providing that a student followed 
 his remarks, fingerings etc. This is nothing extraordinary in music, and 
 there are similar reported cases from the past centuries . Some big Maestros 
 were known for bullying un-subjugated pupils. (Bach was known for bullying  
 kids from his choir). This is not a good excuse obviously, especially in our 
 modern world, however it gives me a thought how both performance practice and 
 teaching evolved.
 BTW for those of you who doubt Segovia's competence as a guitarist 
 there is a short, live video from 50's (Torroba's Sonatina in 
 particular). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjRLpE_TzdA

 Enjoy

 Jaroslaw


 Wiadomość napisana przez gary w dniu 18 gru 2013, o godz. 04:08:

 How does one go about preventing the tastes of one person from shaping the 
 tastes of an art? Van Gogh couldn't sell a painting to save his life during 
 his own time because of the prevailing taste of his era. Popularity is a 
 factor in determining an era's tastes in art. It seems unfair to fault 
 Segovia for accepting his popularity and using it to further his own taste. 
 I'm sure from Segovia's point of view in promoting his own tastes he was 
 protecting the integrity of the guitar and the music.

 Gary


 On 2013-12-17 13:13, Braig, Eugene wrote:
 . . . Not to mention a huge body of dedicated baroque- and 
 romantic-era repertoire for guitar that was forgotten for 
 generations because Segovia didn't like it and instead opted to 
 create a body of repertoire through transcription.  I don't think 
 Segovia can be blamed for his tremendous popularity, but there is a 
 danger in allowing the tastes of one person shape the state of an art.
 Respectfully,
 Eugene

 --

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[LUTE] Re: Segovia and Pujol (was Bream Collection…) and now what?

[Roland Hayes]

The tablature illustrations in Noad's books gave me the idea of playing from 
tablature sources. Since then my career started slowly, then tapered off. r 

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Ed Durbrow
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:18 AM
To: Tobiah; LuteNet list
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Segovia and Pujol (was Bream Collection…) and now what?

Yeah, but he had good taste in music. I had three of his books.

On Dec 17, 2013, at 2:19 AM, Tobiah t...@tobiah.org wrote:

 On 12/16/2013 08:55 AM, Sean Smith wrote:

 What? No love for Frederick Noad's, The Renaissance Guitar?

 That book and others put me off of the Renaissance because I found 
 that most of the pieces, though simple enough looking, were full of 
 awkward fingerings that took more effort to master then was worth the 
 underlying music.  Later, perusing Ness' Frank book, and working out 
 the tuning, I found that I could go back to the Noad with the 3rd down 
 a half-step and have a much better time of it.  It also caused me to 
 lament that the grand staff had not originally been chosen for the 
 guitar.  Someone had a fetish for ledger lines, I suppose.

 Toby



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Saitama, Japan
http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
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--

[LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness - astronomy analogy?

[Roland Hayes]

For me it was JB's Lute music from the Royal Courts of Europe which I got in 
1975.  Still a great record.  r 

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
A.J. Padilla MD
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 9:13 AM
To: 'Geoff Gaherty'; 'lute'
Subject: [LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness - astronomy analogy?

I'll bet some large fraction (at least in the U.S.) of lute players, 
professional or avocational, got turned on by the 1960's Julian Bream album An 
Evening of Elizabethan Music.  Even though he was playing a 
heavily-constructed, inauthentic LSO (Lute-Shaped Object) the artistry and 
the musical content were there.  We should take some sort of poll.
I got the LP in 1966, and my first student lute in 1980, so I only waited 14 
years

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Geoff Gaherty
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 7:32 AM
To: lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness - astronomy analogy?

On 12/08/13 2:46 AM, William Samson wrote:
 Sadly, I suspect that 'sidewalk lutenists' wouldn't attract the same
 queues as sidewalk astronomers.  Even I, as a lutenist, have a much
 clearer recollection of my first view of Saturn's rings through a
 telescope than I have of first hearing a lute.

As a matter of fact, I once saw this sidewalk lutenist in a piazza in
Venice:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53488562/lutenist%20in%20Venice.jpg

He was drawing quite a crowd, in fact.  This was on a tour of Italy following 
the March 31 2006 solar eclipse in Jalu, Libya.  A friend saw him a couple of 
months ago there, and he's now selling CDs, just as someone here suggested.

I can't remember when I first _heard_ a lute, probably when I bought a Julian 
Bream LP of lute music, but I have a vivid memory of first _seeing_ a lute 
(actually a lute guitar), in a Montreal music store window at the age of 17 or 
18.  It was love at first sight, and I knew I had to own and play one, though 
it was 20 years later that I achieved that.

Geoff

--
Geoff Gaherty
Foxmead Observatory
Coldwater, Ontario, Canada
http://www.gaherty.ca
http://starrynightskyevents.blogspot.com/



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[LUTE] Re: Reusner and Reymann

[Roland Hayes]

I believe the Reusner in Das Erbe is Esaias Reusner the younger, who used d 
minor tuning; Musikalischer Lustgarten is by his father whose hymn settings are 
in viel ton.  

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
heiman.dan...@juno.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 8:59 AM
To: stephenwar...@verizon.net
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Reusner and Reymann

Volume 12 of Das Erbe contains selections from Reusner (and Weiss).  See this 
pdf:http://bit.ly/17VpGnc for a table of contents. Daniel  -- Original 
Message --
From: stephen arndt stephenwar...@verizon.net
To: lute mailing list list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Reusner and Reymann
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 12:33:08 -0500

  I have Catherine Lidell's Sacred Music for the Lute. Among the sources
  for her anthology she lists Esaias Reusner's Musikalischer Lustgarten
  and Mattheus Reymann's Cythara Sacra. I have not succeeded in locating
  a copy of either work in any form. Does anyone know whether they are
  available somewhere?

  --


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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Respighi/the birds/Gallot

[Roland Hayes]

   Dear Collective Wisdom: Does anyone know which Gallot piece was used
   for the dove by Respighi as part of The Birds?  Thanks in advance.
   r

   --


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[LUTE] Re: Chitarrone

[Roland Hayes]

Fertile ground?  r  

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
William Samson
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 3:47 PM
To: David Tayler; lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Chitarrone

   I'm afraid you are correct, David.  Of course Bob Spencer isn't to
   blame - he just wrote up what was known at the time.  The trouble is
   that much of what is now known (and much of what was known in Spencer's
   time too) hasn't been put into practice by musicians.  How
   many performances using the 'English' theorbo, with stepped nuts and
   double courses in the diapasons, have we heard?  And yet the late 17th
   century was a very rich time in the development of music and
   instruments.  According to Mace this theorbo sometimes had only the top
   course tuned down an octave - There aren't many theorboes tuned like
   that these days.

   There's still plenty of fallow ground for players of plucked
   instruments who are prepared to stray from the mainstream and for
   researchers to back them up.

   Bill
   From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Thursday, 1 November 2012, 18:28
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Chitarrone
   Research into the Chitarrone stopped after the publication of the
 famous article by Spencer, et al. This had the astonishing effect of
 erasing, removing and deleting the Chitarrone from the early music
 performance revival. Collateral effects include the sidelining of the
 many other types of extended neck instruments that were developed in
 the early 17th century. Renewed interest into the research of this
   and
 other instruments will yield clues as to the specific meanings of the
 contemporaneous terms as well as hopefully renew interest in playing
 the instruments.
 Erasing instruments is not new; the dulcian was completely erased for
 decades before one was discovered with an identifying label in a
   sunken
 pirate ship. Now people are playing it again.
 --- On Tue, 10/16/12, Bruno Correia [1]bruno.l...@gmail.com wrote:
   From: Bruno Correia [2]bruno.l...@gmail.com
   Subject: [LUTE] Chitarrone
   To: List LUTELIST [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2012, 6:11 PM
 The Grove Dictionaire says about the chitarrone:
 The type of lute denoted by this humanist, classicizing term
 (chitarrone means, literally, a large kithara) was associated
 particularly with Jacopo Peri, Giulio Caccini and the other early
 writers of monody from the 1590s until about 1630.
 Has anybody challenged this etymology? Wouldn't be safe to say it
 simply derived from the chitarra (guitar)? Is was developed in
   the
 first place to acompany, playing chordally from a contino line,
   just
 as
 the 5 course guitar would do, though without the struming
   technique.
 The solo repertoire that came later looks very close to the
   guitar
 writing: chords a little counterpoint, arpeggios, slurs,
   campanellas
 efect e so on...
 --
 Bruno Correia
 Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao
 historicamente informada no alaude e teorba.
 Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela
 Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro.
 --
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [1][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
   References
 1. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:bruno.l...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:bruno.l...@gmail.com
   3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] John Jenkins

[Roland Hayes]

   There is an ms described as having 20 or so 4-part dances with a
   continuo part unfigured but marked lute in Jenkins's hand, in the
   British museum if I remember.  Does anyone know of any other surviving
   music for lute, continuo or otherwise, by Jenkins, who was praised for
   his lute playing almost as much as his viol playing and his
   compositions? r.

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[LUTE] Re: Arpeggio question

[Roland Hayes]

And then there's Hagen! Almost every ascending arpeggio turns around and
descends. Lots of a-m-i a-m-i going down.   r

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of Daniel Winheld
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:30 PM
To: Bernd Haegemann
Cc: lute list
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Arpeggio question

Interesting RH problems arise in the harp style of one-note-per string
playing so common in chordal tuned lutes playing 18th century music.
(i.e., Weiss, Bach, d-minor lute.)

I have had to do a lot of RH retraining to cope. Background has been
Renaissance lute and much earlier, classical guitar.

Your bottom example illustrates the problem perfectly as far as it goes;
but without the actual music- what note sequences on which strings, fret
positions, tempi, etc. -an actual fingering solution on line here is
impossible. And there is no one formula. Train your i-m-a fingers to not
be locked in closed arpeggio patterns such as one encounters in
Classical Guitar pedagogy (Carcassi et. al.) and learn to change
strings/courses with each alternate finger when ascending or descending,
and also slip-slide that index finger as needed when descending. Much
harder to describe than to show or do.

Here's a try: Rest thumb on 10 or 11 and forget about it. Unglue your
pinky from the soundboard for a few minutes. Now, pluck courses-
ascending- 6, 5, 4, w/ i, m, a. While slowly starting to pluck 4/w a,
reach i down to 3rd course, being ready to pluck that in (slow!) even
tempo after 4- and m  a fingers have already planted on courses 1 and
2. 

That's one practice pattern. Also- maybe more important- do it with just
i-m, in three moves. (Or just four courses in two moves.) That is just
ascending. Do it in reverse to descend. For a 4 note descension, one can
also let i slip-slide from the 3rd note to the 4th. Sometimes I will
slide the index finger, controlled  in tempo, over more strings. 

Next step, bring the thumb into play. It can do the ascending motion by
going the opposite way of the index finger- a controlled,
string-by-string strum, and seamless transition to i, m, a for last
three notes/strings. Suggested practice piece- the 1st movement, Prelude
of the C major suite by Conradi. For this, put the little finger back
down casually on the soundboard when it feels right. Or not, if you can
maintain hand position, control tone, and keep from accumulating tension
in wrist and forearm. Mine touches down frequently, comes up a lot.
Especially on the 13 course lute.

Also, study the early Baroque Italian masters- Kapsberger, Piccinini,
et. al. Lute, archlute, theorbo. Very interesting arpeggio patterns. If
you have significant Classical Guitar training in your background, you
will need to learn to de-emphasize use of the 3rd finger. And then learn
how to put it back in, when appropriate  necessary. 


On May 17, 2012, at 6:08 AM, Bernd Haegemann wrote:

   as it seems this didn't reach the list..
    Original-Nachricht 
 
   Betreff: Arpeggio question
   Datum: Thu, 17 May 2012 11:17:09 +0200
   Von: Bernd Haegemann [1]b...@symbol4.de
   Kopie (CC): lute-cs.dartmouth.edu List [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu,
   baroque Lutelist [3]baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
 
 Dear all,
 
 sometimes we find in baroque lute music chains of chords, notated 
 evenly as it seems and with the mark arpeggio or arp.
 Now, if the chain looked like this (with n being the number of notes 
 in the chord)
 
 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
 
 or
 
 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5
 
 one would think of some arpeggio scheme to use it in such a passage.
 
 But what the number of notes in the chords looks like this
 
 
 5 5 5 5 5 5 3 3 3 2 3 3 4 6 6 5 4 4 4
 
 or so?
 
 What would you do?
 Thank you for your hints!
 
 best regards
 Bernd
 
 
 
 
 
   --
 
 References
 
   1. mailto:b...@symbol4.de
   2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
 
 
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[LUTE] Re: Pronunciation of Fuenllana's name.

[Roland Hayes]

I would suggest Fwenyana not fwaynyana. r 

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of Stephen Fryer
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:36 AM
To: Herbert Ward
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Pronunciation of Fuenllana's name.

On 27/03/2012 5:42 AM, Herbert Ward wrote:
 Is Fuenllana pronunced fwayn-YANnah in analogy to the modern Spanish
word fue?

 Or is it pronounced foo-en-YANnah, which I've heard more often?
Probably  fwayn-LYAN-nah
 Do we know much about pronunciation in the 16th centurey Spain?

Yes.  As a good start see _Singing Early Music_, edited by Timothy
McGee, published by Indiana University Press, 1996.

Stephen Fryer



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[LUTE] Re: RCH cases

[Roland Hayes]

I have one for my archlute from Paolo Busato and the case is fine. r 

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of mcluckie stuart
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 7:58 AM
To: Lutelist
Subject: [LUTE] RCH cases

   Can anyone advise me on buying an RCH case? I need to get mobile with
   my student lute and am willing to accept that it won't be as good as
a
   Kingham case.
   Please email me off-list, if you think it's more appropriate.
   Cheers - Stuart McLuckie
   --


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[LUTE] Giovanni Battista Marella

[Roland Hayes]

   Aside from one suite in A major, and an LSA microfilm, is any of
   Marella's music available in facsimile or otherwise? Looking for Books
   I, 1757  and II, 1762 for english guitar.  r

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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-minor suite with tabulature!

[Roland Hayes]

I was terrified of Bach's Trauer-ode in b minor/Dmaj. But it works
really well on 13c. Lute.  

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of Christopher Wilke
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 2:15 PM
To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-minor suite with tabulature!

Arto,

--- On Thu, 12/15/11, wi...@cs.helsinki.fi wi...@cs.helsinki.fi wrote:
 
 B-minor is amazingly good key to d-minor lute! I wonder why it is so 
 rare.
 

Everyone knows that all period lutenists played everything in h-Moll,
obviously transposing the tablature at sight. Obviously. ;-)

Chris

Christopher Wilke, D.M.A.
Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
www.christopherwilke.com




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[LUTE] Re: accords nouveaux

[Roland Hayes]

Wow, thank you.  r 

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Rob MacKillop
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 5:38 PM
To: Lex van Sante
Cc: lute mailing list list
Subject: [LUTE] Re: accords nouveaux

Temporary link for Panmure 4

http://db.tt/xZQ2qC5 

Rob

www.robmackillop.net 

On 1 Dec 2011, at 22:02, Lex van Sante lvansa...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all,
 @ Andreas and Bernd
 Thanx for the link
 @ Martin
 I will ;-)
 
 Cheers, Lex
 Op 30 nov 2011, om 12:28 heeft Martin Shepherd het volgende geschreven:
 
 Hi Lex,
 
 Sorry I can't help with this, but please share any success you have with the 
 list - I'm another one looking for these sources!
 
 Thanks,
 
 Martin
 
 On 30/11/2011 09:04, Lex van Sante wrote:
 Hello all,
 
 I've recently fallen in love (again) with the repertoire for lute tuned in 
 transitional tunings.
 I already have all the CNRS books and Board and Pickering but manuscripts  
 like panmure#5, panmure#8, Bâle 53, Manuscript C.N.R.S, Ballard 1631 and 
 1638 for instance are high on my wishlist.
 Anybody have any idea where to look on the net?
 
 Many thanx in advance,
 
 Cheers,Lex
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at 
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 
 

[LUTE] Re: diatessaron/diapente

[Roland Hayes]

I think it goes back to socrates. r 

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of howard posner
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 6:03 PM
To: Lutelist
Subject: [LUTE] Re: diatessaron/diapente


On Nov 4, 2011, at 2:29 PM, William Samson wrote:

  Wasn't it Pascal who wrote Sorry this letter
   is so long - I didn't have time to make it shorter.


Reverend fathers, my letters were not wont either to be so prolix, or to
follow so closely on one another. Want of time must plead my excuse for
both of these faults. The present letter is a very long one, simply
because I had no leisure to make it shorter.
Pascal, Lettres Provinciales XVI, December 4, 1656

http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/texts/pascal/letters-c.html#LETTE
R%20XVI



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[LUTE] Re: tuners

[Roland Hayes]

Violab tuner will give you al the different a pitches you want and in
10+ different tunings.  r

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of Garry Warber
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 6:16 AM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] tuners

   Anyone know of an electronic tuner that calibrates to a=392?  My KORG
   does a=415, but only drops to 410...  I have found a couple that
allow
   you to calibrate some flats, which the vendor says would do the
same
   thing, but one that calibrates to 392 would ease my suspicions.

   Garry

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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bittner 1682/1702

[Roland Hayes]

Kremsmunster L 82 has a complete ms. copy of the book in with lots of other 
11c. pieces. r  

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Bernd Haegemann
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 11:17 AM
To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; theoj89...@aol.com
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bittner 1682/1702

 I see that Tree Edition has reprinted Bittner's Pieces de Luth 1702. 
 Did Bittner actually publish two books with the same title, the same 
 book republished twenty years later, or a false date listed on the LP?


Don't get me started :-)

We have one of the prints here in Brussels

Michael Treder wrote a great introduction to the facsimile edited by TREE, 
which brings together everything that is known about Bittner and his book.

Of the print there are four copies extant:

1) the one here in Brussels, olim in the collection of Charles Edmond Henri de 
Coussemaker
(1682)
= this is the model for the Junghänel/Päffgen/Schaeffer - Facsimile (1974)

2) one in the Bibliothèque Nationale in Paris, from the former collection of 
Sébastien de Brossard (1682) = Minkoff facsimile 1975

3) One from the collection of Dragan Plamenac, now in Yale, no call number 
(1682)


4) copy in the Oberösterreichische Museen Linz (1702) = Tree edition 
facsimile 2009

Then there is still one more modern edition bei Seicentomusic, Emmendingen 
2000, of which the model is not known. We could ask Rainer ! :-))

There is also an almost complete ms of the pieces - Kalmar (S-Klm 21 072)

As far as 1) - 4) are concerned they are the same print, only the title copper 
of 4) has been changed - for what reasons we don't know.

best regards

Bernd




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[LUTE] Re: Saint-Luc again. Was: Foscarini Experience

[Roland Hayes]

   MH you should feel free to suggest and speculate but until you have a
   cold hard fact you should continue to label your speculations as
   such.   For the researchers AJN is referring to, their research has
   reached an end for now on there being only one St luc.  enough!!
 __

   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Martyn Hodgson
   Sent: Sat 4/2/2011 3:45 AM
   To: A. J. Ness
   Cc: Lutelist
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saint-Luc again. Was: Foscarini Experience

  Dear Arthur,
  Many thanks for this: I'm acquainted with Vendrix's work (and his
  credentials!) and was therefore rather dismayed he seemed so
   absolutely
  convinced that the very elderly S Luc (born 1616) was the same
   person
  as journeyed across Europe to play in a concert and composed the
   works
  in the Prague and Vienna MSs in an early 18th century style. Others,
   as
  well as I, have questioned this and suggested a son or some other
  relation (or even non-relation) may be another lutenist S Luc. As
   said
  earlier, my current speculation is the elder S Luc's oldest son
   (also
  named Jacques).
  You say that Vendrix states that 'there is no evidence that S Luc's
  sons were musicians'.  It is certainly the case that he says this
   but
  he then goes on to imply by a dodgy logic that this means they were
  definitely not musicians. But, of course, a lack of evidence works
   both
  ways: there is no evidence that they were not musicians - simply
   that
  we haven't uncovered any as yet. This, essentially, is my reason for
  suggesting that more research is required and, certainly, that one
  should refrain from mere assertion which, as you know, can so easily
  become generally accepted; especially if from the pen of a scholar
   like
  M Vendrix.
  I take your point that 90+ isn't at death's door these days and I'm
  sorry Arthur, that you're  upset about this - but, you may agree,
   90+
  was pretty exceptional for 1700.  However more than this, I suggest
   we
  need to be very careful in assuming the elder S Luc was the S Luc of
  the two MSs: it might be the case that he was, but until then I
   suggest
  we need to keep the matter open.
  Finally, I don't know about 'harm' being done,  but if assumptions
   are
  tested and have to be justified that seems to me to be a very good
  thing.
  regards
  Martyn
  --- On Fri, 1/4/11, A. J. Ness arthurjn...@verizon.net wrote:
From: A. J. Ness arthurjn...@verizon.net
Subject: [LUTE] Saint-Luc again. Was: Foscarini Experience
To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk, Monica Hall
mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Cc: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Friday, 1 April, 2011, 15:49
  Dear Martyn,
  The problem is not that the level of Saint-Luc research is poor.
   It's
  rather
  high, and dates back to the 19th century.  And it is simply not true
  that
  the principal writers are generalists.
  Philippe Vendrix, a lutenist, is one of France's leading
   musicologists.
  He is dean of the  Centre d'Etudes Superiores de la Renaissance,
  He is Director of Research for the Centre National de la  Recherche
  Scientifique,
  And he is editor-in-chief of Acta Musicologica (the journal of the
  International Musicological Society).
  His partner in Saint-Luc research is Manuel Couveur, Professor of
  Musicology
  at the Free University of Brussels.
  Between them, they really have all bases covered, French and
   Flemish,
  so to
  speak (to use an American baseball metaphor).  They are positioned
   not
  only
  by expertise, but also geographically to examine archival records
  related to
  Saint-Luc.
  Brussels, may I remind you, was Jacques de Saint-Luc's musical home
  town.
  He was not French.  He was trained at court with ITALIAN and SPANISH
  musicians, under the director of chamber music, Giuseppe Zamponi.
  Jacques
  performed villancicos at court when he was 13 (was he a
   Wunderkind?),
  and
  the
  court owned vihuelas.  His teacher may have been court
  lutenist/theorbist
  Philippe
  Vermeulen, who as a youngster was sent by the court to Italy to
  perfect
  his abilities on theorbo with Piccinini.
  The cantabile of his style that Baron remarked
  about, was there from the Italian influences of his training.  He
  didn't
  write 200 pieces all in Vienna.  That he wrote so much music is
  accounted
  for by his attaining the age of at least 96.
  I think I resent more than anything your suggestion that he was too
   old
  and
  feebled to write music and travel, and using that as an excuse to
  attribute
  his works to his sons. And he 

[LUTE] Re: Strap slips off left shoulder.

[Roland Hayes]

Do you have a leather strap where the inside is rough and will grab your
shirt? If not, try one.  And no silk shirts. r 

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of Herbert Ward
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 10:20 PM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Strap slips off left shoulder.


In playing my 13-course, the strap is constantly on the verge
of slipping backwards off my left shoulder.   To a lesser extent
this happens with my Renaissance lute also.  Any suggeestions besides
safety-pinning the strap to my shirt?



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[LUTE] Re: Hand moisturizer.

[Roland Hayes]

   Not a moisturizer, but I often keep a dryer sheet in my right pants
   pocket for a little immediate non-squeak insurance.  Really helps my
   tone.  r
 __

   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Herbert Ward
   Sent: Mon 2/14/2011 12:14 PM
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [LUTE] Hand moisturizer.

   What is a good hand moisturizer for lute playing?
   Lubriderm moisturizes well.  But it leaves my fingers
   catchy, even to the point of squeaking slightly on
   the strings.
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[LUTE] Re: New to the list

[Roland Hayes]

Years ago I had a lute peg that would not turn, period.  Dan Larson - Lute 
Doctor at the LSA  Seminar that year- tapped it loose from the exposed end with 
a small hammer and a pencil (new unsharpened with the eraser cut off cleanly) 
to deliver the tap, while the lute was on its side and the other pegs resting 
on a table top with a towel on it. It was a great relief to have a playable 
instrument again.  So if you won't get a good turner soon, or if you're still 
afraid of breaking the peg, you could try this instead, or let your builder do 
it for you. r  

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Anthony Hind
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 12:46 PM
To: Claudia Funder; howardpos...@ca.rr.com
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: New to the list

Now that it's summer I am also experiencing  huge peg turning issues (as per 
Anthony Hind's note of last year).  Claudia

Hello Claudia,
   It only happened to me when I moved between Paris (which is usually 
rather dry), and Normandy (which is very humid).

I would be particularly wary of any peg turner that has an additional lever, as 
this guitar one seems to have. 
http://tinyurl.com/5rnkbxa

The one I bought was from Wolfgang Fruh, 

http://www.lepointdaccroche.com/?Contact

and it is nicely made, but a straight piece of wood, with a shaped hole in the 
end to hold, but not grip, the peg. This adds very little leverage (mainly by 
its diameter being larger than the peg, and by its length).

As you can see, it is in a hard wood,
http://tinyurl.com/4wb6k5z
but there is a softer springy piece within the hole.
http://tinyurl.com/4aj56jy

I am sure you could make one, perhaps, out of a softer wood, which might break, 
rather than the peg, or the peg-box.
However, as I remember, Wolgang's turners were not so expensive, but you would 
need to add the postage. I bought mine from him at the last French Lute meeting.

It really is not intended for releasing stuck pegs, but morefor  accurate 
turning.
If you do use one, you should put minimum force on it, and expect to wait some 
time before the peg moves. Any over energetic movement could be catastrophic ...

Good luck, peg turning in such a situation can be quite a tense business, but 
when they work well, as mine usually do, quite a joy.
Anthony




- Message d'origine 
De : howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com
À : Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Envoyé le : Ven 14 janvier 2011, 7h 04min 46s
Objet : [LUTE] Re: New to the list


 On Jan 13, 2011, at 9:08 PM, Claudia Funder wrote:
 
 For last few days I haven't been able to turn the pegs at all. I've tried 
 the 

heat/drying technique suggested but given it hasn't really helped. (Actually, 
I 

might try a hair dryerHmm)
 
 
 Welcome, Claudia.  I hope you understand that the key to a long, healthy life 
for an instrument is to avoid rapid changes in humidity.
 
 If anyone can let me know where I can get a peg turner from to help that 
 would 

be just grand. I can't find anything on the interweb...
 
 
 Look for peg winders.   I turned this up pretty quickly:
 
 http://www.guitarcenter.com/Peg-Winders-Fretted-Instrument-Tools.gc


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[LUTE] Re: RV93 materials?

[Roland Hayes]

Do you have a list of sources besides Filippo dalla Casa? r 

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of franco pavan
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 3:17 PM
To: giulio.chiande...@libero.it
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: RV93 materials?

   Only a word about the notation. We have hundreds of pieces for
italian
   archlute from the XVIII-Century. All the pieces are written with the
   same notation used by Vivaldi. It was the common way in Italy to
write
   the music for our instrument until the time of Rossini.
   Greetings
   Franco

   2011/1/3 [1]giulio.chiande...@libero.it
   [2]giulio.chiande...@libero.it

 Dear all,
 you could find mr Rizza's edition of Vivaldi's RV93 Concerto at
 Carisch
 Edition
 [3]http://www.carisch.com/catalog/product/view/id/17780/
 best  wishes,
 giulio

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References

   1. mailto:giulio.chiande...@libero.it
   2. mailto:giulio.chiande...@libero.it
   3. http://www.carisch.com/catalog/product/view/id/17780/
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Temporarily fixing an open seam.

[Roland Hayes]

You could apply a cover to the top, perhaps wax or egg wash that would
protect the top from the tape. r

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of howard posner
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 10:58 AM
To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu List
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Temporarily fixing an open seam.


On Jul 19, 2010, at 10:01 PM, David van Ooijen wrote:

 Better use the tape used by painters for the the bits they don't want 
 to paint. His advice.

Even masking tape can be a problem.  One solution is to stick the tape
on your clothes a few time so it picks up lint and is easier to remove.

The obvious problem is that tape with enough adhesion to close the crack
may be too adhesive not to damage the wood.  



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[LUTE] Re: Tapping the soundboard.

[Roland Hayes]

When I already knew I had a loose brace, I tapped the top in different
places after I plucked a string and was able to stop the buzz if I
pressed in one spot- where the brace was loose.  This information was
helpful to the builder who fixed it. r 

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of Peter Nightingale
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 9:50 PM
To: Herbert Ward
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tapping the soundboard.

On Sun, 11 Jul 2010, Herbert Ward wrote:


 I've seen people tap the soundboard with the index finger, as a test 
 for a loose brace inside the lute.

 Is this a reliable way to check for a loose brace?

 How hard to you have to tap?

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Now you shall learne to tune your
lute, and for a general rule, first set up the treble so high as you
dare venter for breaking. But I say unto you, Now you shall probe your
lute and strike so hard as you dare venter for breaking its shell.

Peter.


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the next auto-quote is:
The fable of a god or gods visiting the earth did not originate with
Christianity.
(Richard Carlile)
/\/\
Peter Nightingale  Telephone (401) 874-5882
Department of Physics, East Hall   Fax (401) 874-2380
University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881

[LUTE] Re: lute sighting

[Roland Hayes]

Not very flattering to us players, but what if these depictions are of someone 
not playing loud as possible but merely providing the muzak to the moment, the 
kind of unsurprising unremarkable music that makes a cocktail party a little 
nicer? I have played at such things myself, was relatively ignored but later 
thanked by many for creating a great mood. Everyone is talking and your notes 
sneak through the little pauses in conversation.  I think it likely that this 
is an age-old function of music. r  

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Christopher Wilke
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 7:51 AM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Gary Digman
Subject: [LUTE] Re: lute sighting

Gary,

You don't know.  Maybe acoustics were different back in Robin's time!  (Haven't 
seen the movie, but I can imagine the Hollywood un-verisimilitudinal treatment.)

I'm being facetious, of course, but I _do_ wonder: there are lots of depictions 
of single lutes in ensembles (and sole) at large gatherings.  From the shear 
number of these pictures, the lutes must not have gotten completely lost.  I 
imagine that the players of old perhaps managed to make themselves heard by 
thrashing the heck out of the strings in a manner that is quite contrary to our 
modern construction of the delicate, precious lute.

Uh, oh... this is leading down a dangerous road of thought regarding the true 
properties required of this string material in order to survive more than a few 
minutes under such a beating... NO!... can't think these thoughts... lutes are 
precious, precious things... yes, precious... my precious... ;-)

Chris 

Chris 

Christopher Wilke
Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
www.christopherwilke.com


--- On Thu, 6/10/10, Gary Digman magg...@sonic.net wrote:

 From: Gary Digman magg...@sonic.net
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: lute sighting
 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Thursday, June 10, 2010, 3:02 AM
    I just saw the new
 Robin Hood with Russell Crowe. Indeed there are
    scenes with a small lute. One small point however, in one scene of 
 the
    people of Nottingham at a party/dance outdoors the band consists of 
 one
    small lute, one recorder, one vielle and percussion. It's late in 
 the
    party and the revellers have been
 drinking. The crowd is very noisy,
    but the lute can be heard above the din as if it were the lead 
 guitar
    in a rock band. Only in the movies.
 
 
 
    Gary
 
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 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 


  



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[LUTE] Re: baroque mandolins - single/double courses experiment

[Roland Hayes]

   How can one get this music?  Has anyone tried to transcribe it for
   archlute? r
 __

   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Stuart Walsh
   Sent: Sun 6/6/2010 10:41 AM
   To: Lute List
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: baroque mandolins - single/double courses
   experiment

   I sent this a while ago
   
   
Here's a little example of single-stringing. It's an Alemande and
Corrente by Filippo Sauli. Of course, the Sauli pieces are definitely
for mandolino and mandolinos have double courses
   
[1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oReJcAQIU04
   
   
   And here is another little piece by Sauli on the same instrument, now
   with double courses (except for the top string).
   [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSxLtfVX5xY
   Stuart
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References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oReJcAQIU04
   2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSxLtfVX5xY
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Correction - Edition of the Rohrau manuscripts (Weiss et al.)

[Roland Hayes]

When do you expect to ship the edition? r 

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Markus Lutz
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 2:34 PM
To: Lutelist
Subject: [LUTE] Correction - Edition of the Rohrau manuscripts (Weiss et al.)

Sorry for again advertising the edition, but unfortunately I have forgotten to 
change one date:
150 EUR after June 1st 2010 (members of the German lute society still get 20% 
reduction).

should be read as:
150 EUR after July 1st 2010 (members of the German lute society still get 20% 
reduction).

Best regards
Markus

***

Dear members of the lutelist,
in the next weeks the Deutsche Lautengesellschaft will publish the facsimile 
edition of the two Rohrau lute manuscripts.
As the subscription time has been extended to July the first, I want to give 
you notice of this.
A preview with lower resolution can be seen under:
http://www.slweiss.de/RohrauPreview.pdf (6 MB).

The edition Lautenmusik aus Schloss Rohrau (lute music from Schloss/castle 
Rohrau) will be a high-value edition in one volume with more than 260 pages of 
tablature in facsimile, cloth binding with stamping and thread stitching.
It will also contain a comprehensive scholarly commentary in German by Michael 
Freimuth, Frank Legl and Markus Lutz, including a list of incipits and 
concordances.

Prices for subscription:
100 EUR for members of all lute societies before July 1st 2010 120 EUR before 
July 1st 2010

150 EUR after June 1st 2010 (members of the German lute society still get 20% 
reduction).

The prices do not include postage and packing.

Please send your subscription to:
Deutsche Lautengesellschaft, e.V.
Herrn Matthias Schneider
Sandplackenstr. 13
D-60488 Frankfurt/Main, Germany

Below you will find more details on the edition.

Best regards
Markus Lutz


In 2004, the curator of the collection, count Arco-Zinneberg, came across seven 
manuscript books that were preserved together with the art collection. Among 
them were two lute tablatures.
Christoph Angerer, musical director of the ensemble Concilium musicum Wien, and 
Michael Freimuth, who is the lutenist of the ensemble, were called in and soon 
realized the value of the find, particularly of the lute tablatures.

The first volume (Weiss Sylvio - Lautenmusik) mostly contains works by 
Sylvius Leopold Weiss, among them eleven suites of several movements that have 
been previously unknown, one complete lute duet in four movements, and the 
suite in A that has so far survived as solo music, but here is in the form of a 
trio for violin, lute and bass.
The title of the second volume, Lautenmusik von unbekannten Componisten (lute 
music by unknown composers) was obviously caused by the scribe's ignorance of 
the music, since already as many as four suites could be ascribed to Weiss by 
concordances. Other suites in the collection are composed in a style that is 
quite similar to Weiss's style as well. Quite unexpectedly, the volume also 
contains four pieces for lute in renaissance tuning, notated in Italian 
tablature.

The present volumes, comprising more than 260 facsimile pages, bridge a gap in 
the group of sources of lute music by Weiss, complementing other Weiss 
manuscripts in London and Dresden, as they mainly contain pieces of his early 
creative period. The two manuscripts in Rohrau contain a total number of 157 
movements for the lute, organized in 26 suites or suite-like sequences.
Without doubt, these volumes are of the highest significance both for active 
lute players and for scholars.


Please send your subscription to:
Deutsche Lautengesellschaft, e.V.
Herrn Matthias Schneider
Sandplackenstr. 13
D-60488 Frankfurt/Main, Germany

I subscribe to the facsimile edition of the two Harrach-Weiss volumes:
Name, given name:
Street, house number:
Zip code, town, and country:

I'm a member of the following lute society:

Date, signature:



-- 

Markus Lutz
Schulstraße 11

88422 Bad Buchau

Tel  0 75 82 / 92 62 89
Fax  0 75 82 / 92 62 90
Mail mar...@gmlutz.de



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Reusner A minor

[Roland Hayes]

As there are therobo piece(s) attributed to Reussner in Goess theorbo book, I 
play these pieces, when I can, with theorbo on the bass, which is figured in 
the modern editions. The suites do correspond to actual suites in the 1667 
Delitiae Testudinis;  suites in a, F and C and g I believe. I would love to get 
more than the four suites in the modern edition. r   

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Markus Lutz
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 6:47 AM
To: Daniel Shoskes
Cc: BAROQUE-LUTE
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Reusner A minor

Am 24.04.2010 20:54, schrieb Daniel Shoskes:
 Dear Reusner experts: it seems the suites I'm most attracted to are from the 
 Ms additions that I don't actually own. I am playing through the fronimo 
 version (Towne) of his A minor suite, marked as Neue Lautenfruchte 1676 Ms 
 addition. In the title it also says cum spinet, violino, cont: viol di go, 
 et 2: testudo. It certainly plays well as a solo suite and I know of 2 
 recordings as a solo (Schaeffer and Kirchoff). Is this really just a single 
 part from a larger work and does the music for the other instruments exist?

 Thanks

 Danny



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Sorry for not answering earlier, dear Daniel, as far as I know, there are no 
other instrument parts ...
But we have 2 big volumes of ensemble music (unfortunately without lute) by 
Reusner. Some of these pieces are said to be arrangements of lute pieces, but I 
haven't been able to find concordances so far.

Best regards


-- 

Markus Lutz
Schulstraße 11

88422 Bad Buchau

Tel  0 75 82 / 92 62 89
Fax  0 75 82 / 92 62 90
Mail mar...@gmlutz.de

[LUTE] Re: Caccini's theorbo

[Roland Hayes]

As no low F is written in my version, I tune the F to F# for Amarilli.
Victor Coelho has an article in the Journal of Seventeenth Century Music
(vol 9 2003) about the Camerata, Caccini and the nuove musiche and how
it wasn't so new when finally published.   r

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of John Lenti
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 1:26 PM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Caccini's theorbo

   Whenever I decide to play Caccini on 7-course lute or on my
   (essentially French kind-of) theorbo, I ponder the matter of
Caccini's
   theorbo and things like the fingered g#. First, I really wish I could
   justify the expense of a bass lute with theorbo tuning. It would make
   me whole, in a way.

   The Bottegari lute book (1570s) contains at least one tune by
Caccini,
   and considering the sense of portentousness that Nuove Musiche
   (1600something) exudes, I'm inclined to think that versions of the
   other tunes contained in it had also been kicking around Caccini's
desk
   for a while, since a time, maybe, when his songs would have been
   accompanied on lute. Even if he says the music is 'Nuove.'

   And since it seems like leaping around octaves in the theorbo bass
line
   is just a fact of life and can be perfectly euphonious (on A theorbo
I
   always start 'Amarilli' on the 7th course and finger the following f#
   on the 4th course; no complaints yet) I reckon that whatever
instrument
   he originally intended the songs to be accompanied by, the bass lines
   would be written in a way that was sensible enough for keyboardists
to
   play them as written (maybe also taking pains to ensure that nothing
   figured '11' would be played as a mere '4') but that lutenists and
   theorbo players were no more octave-bound in 1600 than they were when
   Delair authorized playing inconvenient or difficult notes at 16' in
   1690.

Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 08:49:07 -0800
To: Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; davidvanooi...@gmail.com
From: chriswi...@yahoo.com
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Caccini's theorbo
   
David,
   
My guess is that is not what we would call a theorbo at all, but
   rather a bass lute probably tuned theorbo-like. All the strings would
   therefore be on one neck and those chromatic basses could be
fingered.
   Whether the tuning was in A, G or something else and whether one or
   both of the upper courses were down the octave is anyone's guess.
   
This is almost certainly the same type of instrument Kapsperger
used
   for his first chitarrone book. I seem to remember that HK doesn't use
   more than 11 courses in this book and he also requires an apparently
   fingered G# bass note as well as the open G-natural in Toccata VI.
   
Chris
   
--- On Fri, 3/5/10, David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   wrote:
   
 From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 Subject: [LUTE] Caccini's theorbo
 To: lutelist Net Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Friday, March 5, 2010, 9:19 AM
 Do we know anything about the
 instrument(s) Caccini played? His bass
 lines sometimes need G as well as G#, (and I believe F as
 well as F#)
 in one piece, which is impossible on a 'standard' (...)
 theorbo in a
 with 6 strings/courses on the fingerboard. If Caccini were
 just
 another composer, and I'd transpose the bass at will, but
 knowing he
 was a theorbo player, I'm a wondering about his setup: how
 many
 strings on the fingerboard and what nominal pitch? There
 are many
 practical solutions, but did somebody make a study into
 Caccini's
 lute, perhaps?

 David

 --
 ***
 David van Ooijen
 davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 www.davidvanooijen.nl
 ***



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 __

   Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. [1]Get it
now.
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References

   1. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/

[BAROQUE-LUTE] translation

[Roland Hayes]

   Could anyone point me to a translation of Monteverdi's Chi vol che
   m'innamori  from the Selva Morale e Spirituale?  Thank you.  r

   --


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[LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke

[Roland Hayes]

When I play a 13c. I cannot access the low basses with any reliability without 
playing with my fingers practically parallel to the higher register strings.  I 
can play closer to the bridge, or not for tone difference, but rotating my hand 
to more of a thumb open is not an option.  I do use rest strokes with the thumb 
in the basses for accuracy of placement of the following note. r   

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
chriswi...@yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 2:28 PM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; dwinh...@comcast.net; Ron Andrico
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke

Ron,

Good points.  I'm working on exactly this point.

The main issue with true thumb-out is getting a decent and - far more 
importantly - _consistent_ sound out of the treble strings.  There clearly was 
a marked aural difference between the too positions that the baroquenists 
admired.  How else to explain the Stammbuch of Stobaeus when he contrasts the 
pure, sharp, bright tone of thumb-out versus the rotten and muffled sound 
of old thumb-under.  I think most modern baroque lutenists attempt to re-create 
the thumb-under sound.  They therefore have an anachronistic conception of tone.

I can't say that I agree with the rotten and muffled part, but for me, 
there is nothing saying that a brighter sound can't be expressive.  In my 
experiments, I've found that it is quite possible to have a wide range of 
timbral, tonal and dynamic shadings.  The lute just responds differently with 
the fingers in this position.  Still a work in progress.  

The secondary issue is that the true baroque lute technique is very, very 
close to modern classical guitar technique.  I think this strikes too close to 
home for many lutenists for whom thumb-under is part of the (modern) identity 
of what it means to be a real lute player, as distinct from wannabe classical 
guitarists who thrash around on a pear-shaped instrument at ren. fests, etc.

Chris

--- On Tue, 1/19/10, Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com wrote:

 From: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke
 To: chriswi...@yahoo.com, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, dwinh...@comcast.net
 Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 11:09 AM
    Chris  All:
    The rest stroke for the thumb seems a logical means to both produce 
 a
    strong bass and teach the thumb to keep track of diapasons, 
 although
    there is no specific referral to this technique by name in any 
 written
    historical source I've seen.  The
 term 'rest stroke' seems to be a
    classical guitar convention useful in adapting to lute technique.  
 The
    thing I find extremely puzzling in the 'awful lot of paintings' you
    mention is that, for late 16th and almost all 17th century 
 examples,
    there is a nearly uniform depiction of a thumb-out technique, which 
 is
    also described clearly in written
 sources.  With one exception, nearly
    all our notable baroque lutenists of today use a thumb-under
    technique.  This even applies to a
 lutenist I've seen in a recent video
    who is described as never having played renaissance lute.  What 
 gives?
    Why don't baroque lutenists today use what is an unquestionably 
 obvious
    historical technique?  I admit to
 not having paid much attention to
    this issue in the past.
    Sincerely puzzled,
    Ron Andrico
    www.mignarda.com
     Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 05:10:57
 -0800
     To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu;
 dwinh...@comcast.net
     From: chriswi...@yahoo.com
     Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest
 stroke
    
     I've seen Paul O'Dette use repeated rest strokes in the bass,
    sometimes for fairly fast lines that I would take with p-i 
 alternating
    (free) strokes. On the other hand, I've seen Robert Barto 
 occasionally
    use rest strokes in the treble.
    
     There are an awful lot of paintings (especially, but not 
 exclusively,
    baroque) in which the players are clearly using a rest stroke with 
 the
    fingers a la classical guitar. In most of these the player is 
 obviously
    tuning; in some, its not so clear. I know of no printed 
 instructions,
    however.
    
     Chris
    
    
    
    
    
    
     To get on or off this list see list information at
     http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  
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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: D-minor tuning and ET? Remedy?

[Roland Hayes]

Sometimes you can see the avoidance of certain strings/frets as an indication 
of MT for everything else.  Also, even a rancid note/interval/chord in a 
passage or sequence may work to create contrast to the sweet return of the 
tonic. r 

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Mathias Rösel
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 1:02 PM
To: baroque Lutelist
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: D-minor tuning and ET? Remedy?

  I use my tuner to get my open strings and frets about right in 
 Kirnberger III, then I adjust slightly according to what sounds good to my 
 ear. 

Maybe then it's what Howard said about adjusted ET. If you adjust Kirnberger 
III with your ears, it isn't Kirnberger III any more.

 What on earth would be funny about that?

Nothing, actually. I just couldn't believe it that someone tuned his/her 
baroque lute after this sophisticated system which was intended to be used on 
keyboard instruments (cf http://groenewald-berlin.de/text/text_T032.html ). The 
reason why it doesn't work is the same as with the renaissance lute, as Martin 
has already noted. Either you have Bb - Eb - Gb, or you have A# - D# - F# on 
your 1st fret (or you'll need two tastini at least).

Mathias

 --- On Sun, 12/13/09, Mathias Rösel mathias.roe...@t-online.de wrote:
  I obviously failed to get Kirnberger III as a joke. That's the prob 
  with us non-native speakers, we sometimes just don't get it. BTW 
  Mathias is my given name, and I should prefer to get addressed with 
  that name only, on this list, or not at all.
  
  Mathias
  
  chriswi...@yahoo.com
  schrieb:
   Monsieur Mathias,
   
       Nothing to it.  I don't
  know exactly how accurate my tuner is and I frankly don't care as 
  long as it's in the ballpark.  I never just go by the tuner; there's 
  always some degree of adjustment by ear so technically I'm never 
  strictly playing in any temperament.  This is undoubtedly what was 
  actually done back in the day.  It still is today.  Modern strings 
  and winds, supposedly in ET, are constantly adjusting intervals by 
  ear as they play - as they should.  Fortunately for us, tuning 
  systems are rarely of much use outside of theory.
   
   Chris
   
   --- On Sat, 12/12/09, Mathias Rösel mathias.roe...@t-online.de
  wrote:
   
From: Mathias Rösel mathias.roe...@t-online.de
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: D-minor tuning and
  ET? Remedy?
To: chriswi...@yahoo.com
Cc: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Saturday, December 12, 2009, 5:34 PM Chris,

your work commands my respect, seriously. I would
  never
figure to do
that myself. My eletronic device isn't as fine as
  to show
exact single
cents. What's more, I wouldn't dare to position
  frets so
that all the
notes accurately fit. BTW, no need to call me
  Herr on an
English-speaking list.

Best,

Mathias

chriswi...@yahoo.com
schrieb:
 Herr Roesel,
 
     I used the most historically
accurate method: an electronic tuner. ;-)
 Once got the open strings, I fidgeted frets
  around by
ear depending on the key and context (which is
  actually the
historical precedent).  If needed, I would
  sometimes
re-finger passages to include different frets/strings/positions 
if they sounded too
  sour.  I
concentrated mainly on post-Weiss music, so it
  worked pretty
well.  I don't have much experience with many of
  the
nouveau accords, but could see how this could be problematic. I 
finally decided the payoff wasn't
  really
worth the time and have since gone back to
  (mostly) ET with
no great sense of loss.
 
 Chris
 
 --- On Sat, 12/12/09, Mathias Rösel
  mathias.roe...@t-online.de
wrote:
 
  From: Mathias Rösel mathias.roe...@t-online.de
  Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: D-minor
  tuning and
ET? Remedy?
  To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Date: Saturday, December 12, 2009,
  12:02 PM
  Could say how to do that?
  
  Mathias
  
  chriswi...@yahoo.com
  schrieb:
   I've found that Kirnberger III
  works pretty
  well.  I used it for a while although
  I'm back
to ET
  nowadays.
   
   Chris
   
   --- On Fri, 12/11/09, Edward
  Martin e...@gamutstrings.com
  wrote:
   
From: Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re:
  D-minor
tuning and
  ET? Remedy?
To: Mathias Rösel mathias.roe...@t-online.de,
  baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Friday, December 11,
  2009, 8:36
PM
I agree with Mathias.  ET
  works
best for d minor tuned
  lutes.

ed

At 05:16 PM 12/11/2009,
  Mathias Rösel
wrote:
I never tried to get MT
  on the 11c
lute.
  Taking the a's
and fourth frets
a bit down seems about
  all you can
do if 

[LUTE] Re: silk string sighting

[Roland Hayes]

I recall bringing some silk strings from Singapore to the LSA Seminar in
1987 and Grant Tomlinson and others were not impressed on a lute and
ren. Guitar.  Maybe on a viol they would be better.  r

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of alexander
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 4:20 PM
To: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: silk string sighting



 Hardly a fun fact... A work of fiction...
Alexander - back to silk (and peanuts).
 

 
 On Fri, 04 Dec 2009 21:49:37 +0100
 David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Giles Milton
  'Samurai William'
  (Hodder and Stoughton, 2002)
  
  William Keeling, captain on a ship in a fleet sailing from England 
  to the East in 1615, send to Sir Thomas Roe, first British 
  Ambassador in India and aboard one of the other ships, a sheep, 100 
  Weymouth oysters and some silk strings for his viol. Sir Thomas was 
  pleased, as he send captain Keeling a set of six Italian madrigals
in return.
  
  The book is not great literature, I believe Giles Milton received 
  some fame with a previous book Nathaniel's Nutmeg, but the facts 
  seem to be well researched. There is a list of sources, for those
interested.
  
  David - back to gut (and oyters!)
  
  
  --
  ***
  David van Ooijen
  davidvanooi...@gmail.com
  www.davidvanooijen.nl
  ***
  
  
  
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[LUTE] Re: Left hand gut issues

[Roland Hayes]

I oil my gut strings to reduce humidity sensitivity.  Not sure it works
but the feel is less squeaky. r 

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of Daniel Shoskes
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:40 AM
To: lute
Subject: [LUTE] Left hand gut issues

   A question for the no gut, no glory crowd. I have noticed that gut
   strings are stickier on my left hand fingers and sometimes when I
lift
   off the string the stickiness can cause extraneous sounds. Have
others
   noticed this and have they found any solutions?

   thanks

   Danny

   --


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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?

[Roland Hayes]

   What about reversing the order of the strings in the sixth course?
   That way the index or middle (melody)  hits fundamental, while the
   thumb plays a diapason?
 __

   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Roman Turovsky
   Sent: Sun 10/25/2009 6:43 PM
   To: BAROQUE-LUTE
   Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?

   I am with Dale.
   IMO it is easier to isolate radioactive isotopes than the octaves in a
   lute-course. Healthier too.
   RT
   - Original Message -
   From: Dale Young dyoung5...@wowway.com
   To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; sterling price
   spiffys84...@yahoo.com
   Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:38 PM
   Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
h'aint we just something precious then?! Life is too short.
- Original Message -
From: sterling price spiffys84...@yahoo.com
To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:32 PM
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
   
   
I still maintain that with a little practice it is quite possible to
isolate the fundamental with the index finger. I do it all the time
   in
Weiss and later music.
Sterling
   
   
   
   
- Original Message 
From: Daniel Shoskes dshos...@mac.com
To: chriswi...@yahoo.com
Cc: BAROQUE-LUTE baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Roman Turovsky
r.turov...@verizon.net
Sent: Sat, October 24, 2009 12:24:37 PM
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
   
FWIW, I've brought this question up in lessons before, suggesting
   that
a unison 6 th course would be a good idea. VERY strong opposition, I
think primarily on historical grounds, from Pat O'Brien, Bob Barto
   and
Richard Stone.
   
DS
   
On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:03 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote:
   
I believe I'll third that. I went from an octave to a unison on my
old lute but now have an octave 6th on the new lute. I'm finding it
very, very difficult to make sense of melodies on the sixth course
that must be played with the fingers when the thumb is playing a
diapason at the same time. This happens very often in the late
Weiss years and beyond. I don't know of any historical sources
mentioning the unison 6th, though.
   
Chris
   
--- On Sat, 10/24/09, Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net wrote:
   
From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
To: BAROQUE-LUTE baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 9:19 AM
I'm with Dale on this issue.
RT
   
   
- Original Message -
From: Dale Young dyoung5...@wowway.com
To: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi;
baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu;
Edward
Martin e...@gamutstrings.com
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:31 PM
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave
or no?
   
   
I still think that the 6th course is used too often as
a melody string for
that to be octave strung. When I hear the octave jump
at the 6th in a
recording, I find it annoying for anything after 1730.
Just let the basses
start at the 7th...unless you're playing that old
music...then who
cares...not much melody to interfere with anyway.
   
   
   
cranky boy d.
   
   
   
   
- Original Message -
From: Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com
To: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi;
baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:21 PM
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with
octave or no?
   
   
Hi, Arto..
   
Congratulations in finally entering the realm of
baroque lute. i
hope you find it rewarding.
   
I think you can string it however you like, using
materials which are
your favorites.
   
You are correct, in starting octaves at the 6th
course. One thing I
find the best is to have the tension of the
octaves at least as
strong as the fundamentals. There was a
practice about 20 years ago,
in which people used the octave only about 80% of
the tension of the
fundamentals, but this yielded unsatisfactory
result, in my
opinion. This was with Pyramid wound strings
and nylon octaves.
   
I usually use around 2.9 Kg of tension for the 4th
course to the 13th
course.
   
One thing to keep in mind is that if you use wound
- overspun basses
starting at the 9th course, where the swan
extension starts, you may
not like it (I do not), as the sustain is too
great. The very reason
for the added length for the lower basses is to
get a smaller
diameter string, so gut works beautifully for
those courses. For 13
course lutes with a rider on 12  13, the

[LUTE] Re: Jan Gruter's technique

[Roland Hayes]

More important to the debate is whether you alternate thumb and first
finger to play melody.   That is true thumb under.  Otherwise you are
(merely) adjusting your thumb/hand angle to have better access to
basses. R.   

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of Daniel Winheld
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:29 AM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Jan Gruter's technique

   See Nigel North.

  I've never seen any modern player do real thumb-out technique. 
Most people, even the big guys, do as Jan does in the video: a sort of
half thumb that is neither in or out, but is more closely related to
thumb-under in terms of technique and tone.
-- 



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[LUTE] Re: Unbalanced

[Roland Hayes]

Funny.  An orchestra in Buffalo must must not be able to play decently?
Come here and check them out for yourself. Or you can swap grammy award
winning cds with Joanne so she can check you out.  BTW I loved your
intabulation of the polka and fugue from Schwanda the Bagpiper. R.   

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of howard posner
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 2:08 AM
To: Lute list
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Unbalanced

On Sep 10, 2009, at 7:35 PM, EUGENE BRAIG IV wrote:

 The performer, Falletta, is now pretty famous as a guitarist and 
 conductor; She now has a concerto competition named in her honor

She's the music director of the Buffalo Philharmonic.  How she gets the
buffalos to play decently is a mystery.
--

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[LUTE] hasse opera arias lute ms.

[Roland Hayes]

   What do we think of the ms. with continuo written above a part for
   13c. lute in normal d minor tuning for certain arias?  Are these
   settings for chamber perfromance but not the operas themselves? the
   handwriting seems identical to large portions of the Weiss  Dresden
   ms.   Curious how widespread this practice was, and if maybe players
   sometimes used their 13s for continuo even if they said otherwise. r.

   --


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[LUTE] Re: IMSLP / Petrucci Music Library!!

[Roland Hayes]

   Check out the tiorba line in the concerto in D by Heinichen, from a
   manuscript score! Plus Rossi Lib. III for 2 violins and chitarrone!
   Awesome! r.
 __

   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Stuart Walsh
   Sent: Thu 6/25/2009 12:41 PM
   To: Arto Wikla
   Cc: lutelist
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: IMSLP / Petrucci Music Library!!

Dear lutenists,
   
I happened to find a treasury of music! Perhaps it has already been
mentioned here, but it is worth of mantioning again! :-)
   
In
   
 [1]http://imslp.org/wiki/Main_Page
   
you can find the  IMSLP/Petrucci Music Library, virtual library
containing all public domain music scores and/or sheet music, as well
as scores from composers who are willing to share their music with
   the
world without charge (they have for ex. lots of Lully there...)
   
Arto
   
   Interesting. Had a quick look around. There are quite a few pieces in
   MS
   for  mandolino  by Gervasio.
   Stuart
   
   
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   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo Nicki don't lose that number

[Roland Hayes]

What about the Castaldi duets? What tuning for the smaller instrument? R


-Original Message-
From: Martyn Hodgson [mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk] 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 2:58 AM
To: lutelist Net; howard posner
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Theorbo Nicki don't lose that number



   Praetorius, Mace to name but two.

   --- On Wed, 18/2/09, howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote:

 From: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Theorbo Nicki don't lose that number
 To: lutelist Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Wednesday, 18 February, 2009, 2:25 PM On Feb 18, 2009, at
3:26 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote:

 However without troubling yourself to trawl these, you will also see
from my recent postings that there's absolutely nothing
'wrong'
 with
small theorboes but just that the use of large theorbo tuning (ie
double reentrant in A or G) on the smaller instruments does not 
 tally
with the historical record (see archives).

So Martyn keeps saying.  But if you were to trouble to trawl through the
archives that he always refers to generally but never specifically,
you'll see one post after another in which Martyn resolutely refused to
admit what everyone knows: that there is no evidence tying any specific
historical instrument of any specific size to any specific tuning or
stringing.  Mostly he did this by referring to the archives generally
but never specifically.


--

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[LUTE] Re: Old Satoh Vinyl Recording

[Roland Hayes]

   a fabric softener sheet does wonders as well.  easy to grab between
   numbers. r
 __

   From: Edward Martin [mailto:e...@gamutstrings.com]
   Sent: Mon 2/2/2009 7:12 PM
   To: Eugene C. Braig IV; 'lutelist'
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Old Satoh Vinyl Recording

   On a recent recording project of 11-course music, my first efforts
   failed
   with terrible string squeaking, so gut makes string noise as well.
   The remedy:  hand lotion.  It feels weird, but it sure cleans up the
   ugly
   finger noise.
   ed
   At 12:20 PM 2/2/2009 -0500, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote:
   Of course, excessive and ugly finger noise is ugly to modern
   guitarists too.
   
   Eugene
   
   
 -Original Message-
 From: Taco Walstra [[1]mailto:wals...@science.uva.nl]
 Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:58 AM
 To: lutelist
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Old Satoh Vinyl Recording

 On Monday 02 February 2009, Anthony Hind rattled on the keyboard:
  The LP's (it is a 2-record set) were done years ago, before
   people
  were recording in gut.
 
  ed
 ...
  Yes, I forgot that gut stringing, came in around the 80s,
 while thumb-
  in (which Terry used) was reintroduced (under the influence
 of Michael
  Schaeffer) a little earlier, I think.

 Still we encounter so many ensembles where all violins,
 violas, celli, .. use gut strings but the theorbo/lute player
 has an instrument stringed with an ugly set of nylgut,, pvf,
 nylon and some gut diapasons. The reintroduction
 is surely  not finished.
 Can't resist to mention the CD by serdoura where you wrote a
 translation of the foreword, anthony. Serdoura is an example
 of somebody who has his feet still in the starting of the
 70s. No warm sound at all on this CD, still no use of gut
 strings. Ugly fingersounds rubbing over positions on the
 fingerboards like guitarplayers. The 70s are still present in
 our time.
 Well, the 70 had their charm too. Nice recordings by led
 zeppelin, pink floyd..
 Taco



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[LUTE] Re: Theorbo question

[Roland Hayes]

I say start relearning. And start enjoying D major and minor and A major
and minor as easy chords/tonic home bases.  Also, it's good to get used
to playing g minor on the theorbo as there is plenty of it (even Caccini
and Peri on an A instrument).  I think also it's more of an adjustment
to use the open strings in the reentrant tuning than to get used to the
new pitches of the chords. R.  If you still yearn for an instrument in G
with long diapasons, you can always get an archlute.  R.

-Original Message-
From: Guy Smith [mailto:guy_m_sm...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 3:20 PM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Theorbo question

   Although I'm primarily interested in Ren music, I haven't been able
to
   resist the temptation to dabble in continuo a bit (we have a continuo
   group in Seattle, loosely modeled on Pat's Continuo collective). I'm
   afraid that I might have finally taken complete leave of my senses,
as
   I am now in possession of one of those overly large lutes with too
many
   strings (on loan, but...).


   I plan to seek professional assistance soon, but in the interim, a
   tuning question. The instrument is currently in A. I could retune it
to
   G, so I could more easily transfer my experience with the G lute, or
I
   could leave it in A and relearn a bunch of chords. Any advice on
which
   option is likely to be preferable? FWIW, I don't have to perform on
it
   for around 6 months, so relearning the chords should be manageable,
   although the next rehearsal or two might be a bit rough.


   Guy

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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: I would appreciate som help with my research :)

[Roland Hayes]

I think the piece is by enemonde le Vieux who could have known L'Enclos; 
Denis was much younger if I recall.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:59 AM
To: Mathias Rösel
Cc: baroque Lutelist
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] I would appreciate som help with my research :)


Hello,

I'm doing some research French baroque lute music in 1650-1700. I have four 
questions and I would appreciate if anyone could help me out with any of them. 
:)

1. Does anyone know of any printed lute tablature by Henri de Lenclos or his 
daughter Ninon de Lenclos?

2. What is Moillement? It appears in de Visés guitar books and I have not 
found any clear definition of this embellishment.

3. Does anyone have the Tombeaux that Denis Gaultier wrote in the memory of 
Henri Lenclos?

4. Does anyone know if
http://www.goldbergweb.com/en/history/composers/11129.php is a reliable source?

Kind regards,
Robin Rolfhamre



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[LUTE] Re: Michelangelo Galilei

[Roland Hayes]

 Are there concordances anywhere for his pieces from his book I of 1620?
They just don't seem to turn up in the Ballard/Cherbury/Louis de Moy
etc. group.  R. 

-Original Message-
From: Roman Turovsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 2:35 PM
To: Lutelist
Subject: [LUTE] MS 4022

Would anyone in the Collective Wisdom
have Berlin Danzig MS 4022 Balletto Rutteno in any electronic form?
RT



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[LUTE] Re: Lute songs

[Roland Hayes]

Speaking of lute songs, does anyone know where to find a renaissance version of 
What if a day with tab accompaniment?  The director for a program I'm 
accompanying only has a version from the Reliquary of English song circa 1910 
w/piano in e minor (!!).  Thanks for any help.  



From: LGS-Europe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wed 5/28/2008 6:01 PM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute songs



I forgot the best advice: read Am I too loud? by Gerald Moore. It helps,
if only to combat melancholy creeping in after yet another rehearsal with a
real singer's ego (been there too many times, doing that for a living...).
But seriously, he has a lesson to teach to all would-be accompanists.

David



David van Ooijen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.davidvanooijen.nl





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[LUTE] Re: Making a duet from a solo.

[Roland Hayes]

I think the Valderrabano itabulations for two vihuelas work that way.   

-Original Message-
From: Joseph Mayes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:22 AM
To: Herbert Ward; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Making a duet from a solo.

Hello

When making a guitar duo arrangement of a four-part work, I try to
interlock the voices. That is, I give guitar one parts one and three
and guitar two parts two and four. This takes the piece out of the
one-sided area and makes it a one big instrument duo. Perhaps the same
process would work for a lute arrangement.

   Best regards,

Joseph Mayes


On 4/28/08 8:48 AM, Herbert Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 The obvious method for making a duet from a solo is to simply divide 
 the notes between the two lutes, usually giving the melody notes to 
 one lute and the remaining notes to the other lute.
 
 Are there any more sophisticated considerations for endevours of this 
 type, which can be formulated into textual rules?  I ask because 
 sometimes the above method seems to change the character of the piece 
 somewhat.
 
 
 
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[LUTE] Re: Longest 6c piece?

[Roland Hayes]

Probably not as long but worth mention as through composed pieces are a
couple of the tientos by Luis Milan. 

-Original Message-
From: Orphenica [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 6:24 AM
To: Anthony Hind
Cc: Rob MacKillop; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Longest 6c piece?

   Now as the long distance record has been cooked down from an hour to
8
   mins
   a more decent bid:
   During the Int. Lutefestival in Regensburg Bart Roose performed a
   Fantasy by Neusidler
   which is about 12 Mins. On his highly recommended CD (Ein newgeordent
   kuenstlich Lautenbuch) Bart
   needs 12:38. As far as I remember he said, there is another Fantasie
   bei Neusidler that's about 15 mins.
   Another good candidat for long distance lute playing is probably
Albert
   de Rippe: Fantasie IV (about 10 mins)
   Any one bidding more?
   we
   Anthony Hind schrieb:

Rob
Those are the longest ones on Jacob's Bakfark Black cow, but
they are short compared to the ones you are speaking, two over 6, and
two over 4 and a bit.
over 8
[1]http://www.magnatune.com/artists/albums/heringman-blackcow/12.m3u
Over 6
[2]http://www.magnatune.com/artists/albums/heringman-blackcow/13.m3u
Over 4
[3]http://www.magnatune.com/artists/albums/heringman-blackcow/07.m3u
[4]http://www.magnatune.com/artists/albums/heringman-blackcow/08.m3u

I can't see what lute he is using.

Anthony

Le 15 avr. 08 =E0 22:36, Rob MacKillop a ecrit :


An hour to perform - and an eternity to listen to, I imagine. It raises
the question as to whether it is a 'composition' or a catalogue of
examples. I haven't seen the notation. What do you think, Are?

The Bakfark sounds more interesting. Anyone have more details?

Rob


On 15/04/2008, Are Vidar Boye Hansen [5][EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

Vincenzo Galilei wrote 100 variations over the Romanesca, which would
take more than one hour to perform.


Are


IIRC, there's a Bakfark intabulation that runs around 18 minutes. I

heard

Jacob Herringman play part of it once, but that was some years ago and I
don't recall the name.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: Rob MacKillop [[6]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 11:53 AM
To: Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] Longest 6c piece?

I've just been listening to Bart Roose's very good recording of music by
Neusidler ([7]www.passacaille.be) - it has raised the profile of
Neuslider

for

me at least. Anyway, there is one track which clocks in at 12 minutes 38
seconds - Ein sehr kunstreicher Preambel oder Fantasey. Is this the

longest

6c piece? Depends how fast you play it, of course! I'm not used to

hearing

such long pieces on the 6c. Very nice piece, by the way. I usually get

very

restless listening to 6c recordings - so many short pieces. This makes a
change.

Rob

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References

   1. http://www.magnatune.com/artists/albums/heringman-blackcow/12.m3u
   2. http://www.magnatune.com/artists/albums/heringman-blackcow/13.m3u
   3. http://www.magnatune.com/artists/albums/heringman-blackcow/07.m3u
   4. http://www.magnatune.com/artists/albums/heringman-blackcow/08.m3u
   5. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   6. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   7. http://www.passacaille.be/
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Pittoni's theorbo?

[Roland Hayes]

What about a lowered 1st on what we would otherwise consider a large
archlute? I seem to remember an archlute piece (Doni ms.) that does not
use a chanterelle. To me this implies that the first course was
problematic at times at least (a la french 11 c. pieces w/o chanterelle)
and may have been replaced with a string an octave lower for both
continuo and solo pieces. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 2:36 PM
To: Jerzy Zak; Lute Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Pittoni's theorbo?

Jurek,


There are many problematic areas in regard to this matter.  I
believe that the most satisfactory solution is the second course in
octaves since it seems sometimes to act as a normal low string and
sometimes like it in the high octave.  I've been playing around with
this for the past month or so (on my toy) and its quite musically
worthwhile.  (For the record, I've got my octave string in the upper
position like a baroque guitar.)


We're forgetting about Melli.  Without the octave 2nd, there are whole
pieces that disintegrate into annoying leaps.  Take these examples from
the 'Corrente detta la Strasinata per la Tiorba' from his Libro Quinto
of 1620.

The piece opens with a 16th-note run from the 1st course to the second.
Fine for standard double re-entrant tuning.  In bar 6, however, there is
a trill (marked T) above the dotted quarter on the open second course.
The real problem comes with the fact that the trill also has a
written-out termination. There are two 16ths: a '3' on the third course
followed by a '0' on the second course which leads into a '1' in the
next measure.  How to make sense of this leap up a minor seventh smack
in the middle of the concentrated gesture of rapid neighboring tones
that make up a trill?  The idea of the thing going something like
FEFEFEFEFE - D up a 7th - E down a 7th - F in the space of about a
second is ludicrous.  And if Melli really wanted the D as part of the
figure, why not just write an open 5th course?  These sorts of trills
happen all over.

The figure at m.12 is problematic for standard re-entrant tuning as
well.  There is another four-note run in 16ths.  In this case the run
begins on an open second course and continues down to '3-2-0' on the
third course.  A leap up a minor seventh for no reason.  Why not just
write '5-3-2-0'?

So far we might be able to argue that the piece, although labeled per
la Tiorba has in fact been written for a lute or theorbo with only
one or no re-entrant strings (then not a theorbo at all, of course).
Measure 20 presents problems with this solution.  Here there is a
typical theorbo-ism - a 16th-note run divided between strings.  The
figure begins with a '3-1' on course 3, continues to a '1' on the 1st
course, and moves on to a '2' on the 4th course before finishing with a
'1' back on the 1st course.  Such a figure would be pointless in lute
tuning.  Why not write those 1st course '1's' as '3's'
on the 3rd course? 

Is single re-entrant tuning intended?  There are problems with that,
especially with what follows.  The piece ends with a nice set of
sequences using the 16th-note figure:

m. 22 - '3-1-0' on course 1; '3' on course 2

m. 24 - '0' course 2; '3-2-0' course 3

m. 26 - '3-1-0' course 3; '2' course 4

m. 27 - '3-1-0' course 2; '3' course 3

m. 28 - '0' course 1; '3-2-0' course 2, incidentally ending with '0' on
the 5th course.


This happens in the short space of a few measures within ONE piece by
Melli.  Many more such examples abound.

Clearly he thought of the second course as musically neighboring either
the first course, third course, OR 4th course.  I've found that having
the octave string closest to the third course allows me to sometimes
emphasize the lower octave and sometimes the higher one.  (Having it
closest to the 1st course made it difficult to bring out the low
octave).

Its been fun working with it.  And of course it works nicely for
Pittoni, too!

Chris 

--- Jerzy Zak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Martyn,
 
 Indeed, the Liste archives give ample exemples the 'Pittoni case' is 
 an unsolved problem. Of course you know, the problem is not only on 
 page 43, but on almost every page of this interesting from several 
 points of view publication. I've played in concert one of the sonatas 
 and have a score of it, and now I've examined the whole volume again.
 
 There are several types of scalic passages. The ones before cadences 
 with lips of a seventh presents no problem at all, they are idiomatic 
 to any instrument of the time. But there are many others which are 
 broken around the second course. Some are explicable by common 
 practice of braking passages, say, like in transcriptions from one 
 medium to another - eg. JS Bach's own converting traverso flute part 
 to a flauto dolce part in one [or more] of his cantata, or many 
 adaptations of violin music to a traverso flute in the XVIIIth C. But 
 some others seems less hit home and it's either 

[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G?

[Roland Hayes]

gm not nearly as bad as it seems on an A theorbo. Peri also wrote a lot in g 
and G maj. and his pieces work well too.  Even F is okay once you figure out 
how to stay away from the Bb barr chord on the first fret.  Reentrant tuning 
helps .   R. 



From: Ed Durbrow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sat 1/26/2008 10:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; LuteNet list
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G?



But look at how many pieces are in the key of F for a nominal G 
Renaissance lute. I would expect something close to the same 
proportions transposed up a tone for a theorbo in A.
cheers,

On Jan 16, 2008, at 2:07 AM, Rob wrote:

 I have a theorbo being made now by Malcolm Prior for delivery by 
 the end of
 February. Very much looking forward to it as I haven't played a 
 theorbo in
 ten years or more. It is an 84cms Koch model, Italian tuning.



 Now, I've been looking at the song repertoire by Giulio and Francesca
 Caccini, a repertoire ideally suited to theorbo accompaniment. 
 Giulio played
 it, and his daughter possibly played it - she was respected as a lute
 player, although the type of lute was never specified. At least in 
 Giulio's
 music one might expect 'theorbo keys' - Am, Dm, A, D. Here are the 
 keys from
 his 1614 edition (the only one I have to hand):



 G or Gm / / / / /

 D or Dm 

 A or Am ///

 F / //

 E /



 And Francesca's (from 'Il primo libro delle musiche' 1618 - Indiana
 University Press)



 G or Gm / /

 Am //

 F ///

 Bb /

 C /



 So, a very high percentage based on G. All the keys are obviously 
 possible
 on a theorbo in A, but I wonder if their theorbo was in G. I 
 imagine someone
 (or more than one) has done research into this, and it would be 
 interesting
 to read their findings.



 I've also noticed that a few theorbo recordings are on a theorbo in 
 G, both
 solo and continuo. Is it common among modern players? I imagine G 
 would be
 an easier transition for Renaissance players who think in G more 
 easily than
 A. I'm planning on having it tuned in A, with A=440, but I'm 
 interested in
 what others are doing, and general thoughts pro and contra any 
 particular
 tuning.



 Rob



 www.rmguitar.info








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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/






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[LUTE] Re: airs for lute in d minor tuning

[Roland Hayes]

Some hymns as well, e.g., Reusner's hundert geistliche melodien for
voice and 11 c.  No mensural notation for the voice, you're expected to
know the hymn or use another source.  

-Original Message-
From: damian dlugolecki [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 1:30 PM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] airs for lute in d minor tuning

It has always seemed odd to me that the publication of airs de cour with
lute accompaniment ceased with the emerging popularity of the d minor
tuning.  A case has already been made that the d minor tuned lute was
used for continuo. And airs for various operas and ballets continued to
be created.  Can anyone tell me if there were songs published with the
new tuning, or if not, why not?

Damian
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[LUTE] Re: airs for lute in d minor tuning

[Roland Hayes]

It has been a while since I looked at these pieces but as I recall the
melody was missing in  the ones we performed.   R.  

-Original Message-
From: Rob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 9:53 AM
To: Roland Hayes; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: RE: [LUTE] Re: airs for lute in d minor tuning

Dear Roland,

Are you saying that Reusner's arrangements are just accompaniments? That
the melody is not there? I like these pieces but don't know anything
about them

Please excuse my ignorance, but what does 'geistliche' mean in English?

Cheers,

Rob

www.rmguitar.info
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Roland Hayes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 14 January 2008 14:45
To: damian dlugolecki; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: airs for lute in d minor tuning

Some hymns as well, e.g., Reusner's hundert geistliche melodien for
voice and 11 c.  No mensural notation for the voice, you're expected to
know the hymn or use another source.  

-Original Message-
From: damian dlugolecki [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 1:30 PM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] airs for lute in d minor tuning

It has always seemed odd to me that the publication of airs de cour with
lute accompaniment ceased with the emerging popularity of the d minor
tuning.  A case has already been made that the d minor tuned lute was
used for continuo. And airs for various operas and ballets continued to
be created.  Can anyone tell me if there were songs published with the
new tuning, or if not, why not?

Damian
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[LUTE] Re: airs with lute in d minor tuning

[Roland Hayes]

I think Michel Lambert, Sebastien le Camus and otherrs take up the torch
for airs de cour but with theorbo and figured bass. A little earlier
Etienne Moulenie may have published some air de cour with figured bass;
his first three books at least have tab for renaissance lute. 

-Original Message-
From: damian dlugolecki [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 1:46 PM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] airs with lute in d minor tuning

I should have been more clear that I was interested more to know why
publication of lute songs in France suddenly cease when the d minor
tuning emerges.

It's curious don't you think?  All those volumes by Ballard and then
nothing, in spite of the fact that there is some publishing of lute
tablature in the 'accord nouveau'

Damian
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[LUTE] Re: Single-strung 13-course Baroque Lutes?

[Roland Hayes]

Terry Schumacher does!



From: David Rastall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tue 11/13/2007 1:26 PM
To: Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] Single-strung 13-course Baroque Lutes?



As long as we're talking about single-strung archlutes, why not 
single-strung 13-course Baroque lutes?  Do any of you play a single-
strung 13-course?

David R
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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[BAROQUE-LUTE] stringing

[Roland Hayes]

Is it possible to have the first course at g (440) with a string length of 
67cm?  ( what material?) Roland Hayes



From: Richard Stone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Fri 9/7/2007 8:17 PM
To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Theorboed 13-c baroque lute - to buy



Dear Baroque Lute Netters,

I am looking to buy a theorboed 13-course baroque lute, new or used. If
you have one to sell or know of somebody who has one for sale, please
contact me, Richard Stone, groberts ampersand sas dot upenn dot edu. I
only get the weekly baroque lute digest, so do please contact me
directly rather than via this list.

Thank you.

Richard Stone



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Francesco Conti

[Roland Hayes]

Curious if anyone knows what kind of lute Francesco Conti wrote for in his 
songs with strings, oboe or flute, lute and b.c. in Vienna, ms. available in 
two volumes from SPES.

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[LUTE] Harp Consorts

[Roland Hayes]

Does anyone know where to find more of W. Lawes's Harp Consorts than are in 
Musica Britannica (vol. 32?).   roland hayes 





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