[LUTE] Re: Any hints on how to develop improvisational ability?
There are specific skills you need to be a professional yes, but, what kind of professional? even if you could, as some of the great cornetto players can, improvise in the style of Bassano and others, this would definitely not land you a job. In itself, perhaps not, but one doesnt get to that level of performance without other skills developing too. Would you have this young lady (or any player for that matter) be less rounded musically? Luckily, improv is a skill one can practice in the mind, with the ever-present voice as well as when other instruments come to hand. Further, there is work for soloists as well as the regular players in an orchestra, band, or ensemble; I note the work of George Weigand and consorts he has played with, also the Baltimore Consort and others. Lutenists are not limited to careers playing continuo, there is other work; and artful improv (playing 'new musicke' as well as olde) was respected and considered for appointments. How can it help to scant a long-acknowledged historical performance practice? I am thinking of the several Mozart Concertos with empty staves needing cadenzas; also dixieland and jazz where improv is expected of soloists. Consider that that particular skill didnt hurt Mozarts reputation any. Improv is lots of fun and a reward in itself that one needs no job to enjoy; the technical work that leads to such facility as allows experimentation as one plays should also be a part of the workout for anyone, pro or amateur, aspiring to mastery of an instrument. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Any hints on how to develop improvisational ability?
However, her lute teacher recently pointed out to her that if she hopes to play the lute professionally in the future she will need to become much more proficient in playing improvisationally. Interesting; the unquestioned linkage to a professional lutenist's career with improvisational skills. As was pointed out by David Tayler- one of the very high functioning professionals on this list- improv skills are not the first requirement for a professional career- but sight reading ability is. STEP AWAY FROM THE TABULATURE! Tab is a monumentally ingenious indispensable system for notating preserving lute SOLOS, but dependence on it will cripple your daughter for working with our fellow musicians. Absolute comfort ease with the notational systems is a must; start with G lute, two staves, move on to A lute- (which gets a foot in the door for later A theorbo reading a step to Baroque guitar), figured unfigured bass, learn some of the C clefs, and perhaps also D lute tuning- each new step strengthens the previous abilities and enables the next, which extends the transpositional abilities- extremely useful for song accompaniments with different singers as well as various ensembles up to orchestral levels. I would advise getting a theorbo and/or archlute as soon as practically possible; the pros on here can certainly weigh in here on that step. Now about improvisation- a very loaded term- ranging from inserting a few passing notes cadential figures here and there to on-the-spot wholly decorated and divisioned repeats of pavans galliards where such repeats are not already written out, and other abilities up to freely improvised fantasias. Improvisational skills are learned skills- but of course some people learn them faster and more easily/consciously than others. But anyone who loves and plays music can learn them, and how far one goes is as dependent on time and hard work as talent. Immersion helps. Pick the passamezzo antico, for example- say Adrien LeRoy's well known one- play it over and over, perhaps with other musicians. Study his more shorter ornamented version. Eventually one can't help doing little bits like breaking chords, adding some passing notes, etc. Treat it like the 12 bar blues of the Renaissance. Now take these basic passamezzo chord changes- as well the Folia, moderno, and others- memorize those basic chord changes and learn them in all keys and positions, until the whole fingerboard comes under control. For more advanced work, and more sophisticated music, the books are out there- Diego Ortiz, Sylvestro Ganassi (Fontegara- enough recorder divisions to make your head spin; and the Regola Rubertino- viol and some lute material). A superb course of study is Christopher Simpson's The Division Viol. Other important works are Thomas Morely's book- forget the exact title wording Plaine Easie Introduction to Practical Musick. I'm losing focus rambling- others will no doubt submit more better suggestions- but your daughter has a world of fun hard work ahead of her. Dan -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Any hints on how to develop improvisational ability?
On Aug 26, 2009, at 6:17 AM, Christopher Witmer wrote: s improvisational ability something that you either have or you don't? Or is it something that can be learned? Are there any tips concerning how my daughter could most effectively approach this? I'm assuming the skills we're talking about involve ornamenting or creating an accompaniment, rather than inventing music out of whole cloth. A lot of this amounts to connecting dots -- recognizing harmonic and melodic patterns and adding a few notes to get from one point to another. Eventually the short bridge patterns can turn into longer improvisations, of course. What it takes to develop the skill depends on what the student already knows. Does she recognize ornamentation when she sees it? Or are all notes created equal for her? Here are some things she can do: 1. Compare different ornamented versions of a melodies (e.g. Elslein, Innsbruck, Lord Willoughby, Ruggero, Light My Fire) 2. Learn or listen to different versions of variations on ground basses: the Bergamasca is a a good place to start because it's so harmonically simple, and there are lots of them out there, so a student can learn a hundred ways of getting from I to IV to V to 1, but there are enough passamezzos and Greensleeves to a Ground and similar things to keep someone busy for a long time. 3. One of the more valuable exercises, though more difficult, is to take an ornamented ornamented or florid line and simplify it to a basic melody. 4. Learn to read figures and play continuo. Looking at editorial realizations of continuo parts can give ideas, both good and (very often) bad, about connecting dots. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Any hints on how to develop improvisational ability?
In the current (August 31) issue of The New Yorker, Alex Ross has an article called Taking Liberties: Reviving the art of classical improvisation. He points out that while modern musicians specializing in the Renaissance and the Baroque have been leaders in improvisation, the idea of adding unwritten material to Classical and Romantic works is becoming more common. Perhaps conservatories will begin giving more emphasis to this skill in their curriculae. Ned __ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Any hints on how to develop improvisational ability?
Others will go into more detail, but the best advice I can give your daughter is to not worry about making mistakes when learning to improvise. This is especially important to those who have spent all their time trying to play the score 'correctly'. And, yes, I believe EVERYONE can improvise - she does it already in her speech... Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Any hints on how to develop improvisational ability?
Hi Chris, Regarding question 1, I would recommend reading an interview with Paul O'Dette in the most recent issue of Lute Society of Amerca Quaterly (Volume XLIV, No 2). In it, O'Dette is asked what kind of training a person planning a career in lute performing should be looking for. To be sure, he does stress the importance of the ability to improvise, which is taught at least at the conservatory in Basel where he did study. (Of course, he did have the advantage of coming to the lute from having played rock and folk music where he gained experience improvising). So, perhaps it is possible to find courses in improvisation where ever your daughter plans to study. If not in the particular school whe will be studying in, perhaps in a related school. She may need to pick up another instrument for that; but the ability would transfer to the lute. (Does she have any musician friends who play music that requires improvising? Is so, perhaps they would let her join them for sessions where she could pick up some pointers - either on her lute or a guitar). At any rate, if you haven't seen that issue of the Quaterly I would recommend it, since O'Dette talks about other areas of strength a performing lutenist needs to acquire to be professionally proficient. Good luck to your daugher. Ned __ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Any hints on how to develop improvisational ability?
Question 1. [improv] you might find more on improv in the archives, it has been discussed here before. My first instrument was voice, followed by guitar, eventually I came to lute. In all of that I was one of those who play by ear. I find it difficult to play from score, if the version of a piece in front of me imitates something I have memorized I have difficulty playing the 'wrong' notes (rhythm, whatever differs) as they are written. In choral music rehearsals I find there is a point where I can hear the music in my head; at that point I am off-book, able to give the conductor my full attention, and capable of improv. To do improv well one must somehow have gotten into the idiom of the music. If it is 'inside' you, then that is sufficient, I suppose some work from a more cerebral approach, cmnsidering the rules of counterpoint etc, but I was never taught them. Some of us were exposed to music at an early age, this is true in my case. mom divorc4ed dad early, flew cross country to rejoin her family. Her younger brother had also just returned from service in Korea, and they rented a house together. From his rooms I heard be-bop, jazz, and big-band. From hers it was Mozart, Bach etc. Perhaps that exposure had something to do with it, perhaps other things in my personality contribute as well. People who know me well will confirm I see things from all sides and am not shy to debate, especially I love to confront authority. See if you can get her involved in singing - sweet adelines, madrigals, shapenote, karaoke; any form that encourages harmonious invention. The voice is always there (unless you tire it out), and is not so challenging to master to the point of being suitable for improv as any other instrument. Singing along with old folk groups (Peter Paul and Mary, Pete Seeger, Steeleye Span...) or golden oldies (everly brothers, johny cash, elvis...) or pop artists like Harry Belefonte and picking out the harmony, perhaps stumbling into a new one. When I was learning guitar, I spent some time late at night in bed with the lights out, practicing chord switches and playing pieces from memory. Sometimes I would work out pieces I had no music for, but knew by heart. Drills on riffs, parallel thirds, fifths, are available at good music stores but can also be invented and set down and should be a small part of daily practice. Once in your fingers they can be used in improv. The art of improv includes an awareness of what is happening in the ensemble, riffs in other parts, an upcomming harmonic shift, a suspension about to be resolved, you can work with and against such things in artful ways. today one can use composition software to playback loops so you can practice in privacy. That wasnt possible decades ago, one had to use other means. When you are sufficiently familiar with a recording you can replay it in your head, and then have something to sing against. Jam sessions, small freindly groups doing madrigals, part songs, catches, glees, do-wop; that is where you can be comfortable making mistakes as you try things out. Sometimes the mistakes work BTW, often dissonance is artful, so be confident, if your riff makes sense horizontally but makes a false note vertically, you have two choices - embellish so the dissonant notes add some spice but pass quickly, or keep it strong as a dissonance. Introduce her to the works of Josquin, Hayne, Busnois etc. This is the art music of the late 15th century, and is essentially written-out improv. I find it compares well to good dixieland. Schott has editions intended for recorders that are inexpensive. Good luck to your daughter, lots of fun and challenge lies ahead. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Any hints on how to develop improvisational ability?
As you probably know, if she is going to make a career practicing something foreign in Japan, it is essential that she study abroad in order for her to get the Japanese stamp of approval. Do read that Odette interview. He mentions that continuo and the ability to read notation are vital for earning a living. As Rob mentioned, attitude is part of improvising. It is another language and you cannot learn a language without making lots of mistakes. On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:17 PM, Christopher Witmer wrote: It has been quite some time since I posted to the list, but I have two questions for list members. Perhaps these two questions are related . . . I'm not musical enough to say for sure. Question 1. My third daughter, now age 17, has been playing the lute seriously for a few years now, and has decided that she would like to try to major in the lute at an overseas conservatory -- probably in Strasbourg, France. (Practically speaking, there are no conservatories in our home of Japan where she could study lute.) My daughter is extremely serious and dedicated in her studies. She just bought a new lute for about $4,000 (USD) with money that she earned through her part-time job. She plays the lute for at least three hours each day, and she is also very good at the piano. She does very well with her solfege studies as well. However, her lute teacher recently pointed out to her that if she hopes to play the lute professionally in the future she will need to become much more proficient in playing improvisationally. This is something my daughter is not naturally good at. I know some people are naturally good at it because my wife, who gave up piano lessons at age 13 when she could no longer advance without being able to read music (up to that point, her teacher had always assumed she was reading the music, when she was in fact playing by ear), can improvise better at the piano than anyone else in our family, even the two older daughters who are both conservatory students. And my second-youngest daughter also seems to have my wife's gift for improvisation -- in fact, a few times she has picked up a new instrument and within a few minutes she has been able to fake it well enough that, to an untrained person at least, she gives the impression that she has been taking lessons for a while: there is real music coming out. But my third daughter, despite having very good lute technique, has never been one to improvise, and this new demand is presenting a bit of a challenge for her. Is improvisational ability something that you either have or you don't? Or is it something that can be learned? Are there any tips concerning how my daughter could most effectively approach this? I'm assuming that her teacher is also trying to guide her in this regard, but it occurs to me that if he just happens to be one of those people who naturally improvises well, maybe he doesn't really know how to help a person like her improve in this area. (He plays not only lute but also rock, jazz and classical guitar, while my daughter has never played any string instrument besides the lute.) In any case, I would be interested in knowing what sorts of ideas people on the list might be able to offer. Question 2. A few years ago I found a website where someone was both discussing his instruments and also introducing a summary of Thomas Campion's counterpoint technique. I remember being impressed by Campion because it seemed like a fairly easy, paint-by-numbers approach to composing songs -- something that almost anyone could apply to song writing. I recently tried an internet search but couldn't locate that website. If anyone knows what I'm referring to and can point me to that website, I'd be very grateful. Also, is it worth picking up the edition that has both Campion's and Coprario's books bound into one volume? All of my kids (and their musical friends too, for that matter) could benefit from having access to tools that facilitate getting their feet wet with composing. Although I don't do it myself, it stands to reason that the earlier someone gets involved with composing music, the better. I also wonder whether getting some of these compositional techniques under one's belt would help my daughter to develop her improvisational ability. Is not improvisation simply composing in real time? Sorry for the long questions! Any help you might be able to provide would be GREATLY appreciated. Thank you. -- Chris To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [2]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp [3]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 3.
[LUTE] Re: Any hints on how to develop improvisational ability?
An easy method of writing counterpoint: http://www.shipbrook.com/jeff/ See bottom of the page under Miscellaneous Information. Peter. On Wed, 26 Aug 2009, Christopher Witmer wrote: It has been quite some time since I posted to the list, but I have two questions for list members. Perhaps these two questions are related . . . I'm not musical enough to say for sure. Question 1. My third daughter, now age 17, has been playing the lute seriously for a few years now, and has decided that she would like to try to major in the lute at an overseas conservatory -- probably in Strasbourg, France. (Practically speaking, there are no conservatories in our home of Japan where she could study lute.) My daughter is extremely serious and dedicated in her studies. She just bought a new lute for about $4,000 (USD) with money that she earned through her part-time job. She plays the lute for at least three hours each day, and she is also very good at the piano. She does very well with her solfege studies as well. However, her lute teacher recently pointed out to her that if she hopes to play the lute professionally in the future she will need to become much more proficient in playing improvisationally. This is something my daughter is not naturally good at. I know some people are naturally good at it because my wife, who gave up piano lessons at age 13 when she could no longer advance without being able to read music (up to that point, her teacher had always assumed she was reading the music, when she was in fact playing by ear), can improvise better at the piano than anyone else in our family, even the two older daughters who are both conservatory students. And my second-youngest daughter also seems to have my wife's gift for improvisation -- in fact, a few times she has picked up a new instrument and within a few minutes she has been able to fake it well enough that, to an untrained person at least, she gives the impression that she has been taking lessons for a while: there is real music coming out. But my third daughter, despite having very good lute technique, has never been one to improvise, and this new demand is presenting a bit of a challenge for her. Is improvisational ability something that you either have or you don't? Or is it something that can be learned? Are there any tips concerning how my daughter could most effectively approach this? I'm assuming that her teacher is also trying to guide her in this regard, but it occurs to me that if he just happens to be one of those people who naturally improvises well, maybe he doesn't really know how to help a person like her improve in this area. (He plays not only lute but also rock, jazz and classical guitar, while my daughter has never played any string instrument besides the lute.) In any case, I would be interested in knowing what sorts of ideas people on the list might be able to offer. Question 2. A few years ago I found a website where someone was both discussing his instruments and also introducing a summary of Thomas Campion's counterpoint technique. I remember being impressed by Campion because it seemed like a fairly easy, paint-by-numbers approach to composing songs -- something that almost anyone could apply to song writing. I recently tried an internet search but couldn't locate that website. If anyone knows what I'm referring to and can point me to that website, I'd be very grateful. Also, is it worth picking up the edition that has both Campion's and Coprario's books bound into one volume? All of my kids (and their musical friends too, for that matter) could benefit from having access to tools that facilitate getting their feet wet with composing. Although I don't do it myself, it stands to reason that the earlier someone gets involved with composing music, the better. I also wonder whether getting some of these compositional techniques under one's belt would help my daughter to develop her improvisational ability. Is not improvisation simply composing in real time? Sorry for the long questions! Any help you might be able to provide would be GREATLY appreciated. Thank you. -- Chris To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html the next auto-quote is: Keep your government hands off my Medicare! (Unknown Representative of Idiot America) /\/\ Peter Nightingale Telephone (401) 874-5882 Department of Physics, East Hall Fax (401) 874-2380 University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881
[LUTE] Re: Any hints on how to develop improvisational ability?
There are specific skills you need to be a professional, these are fairly easy to outline, I have a list somewhere but I'm currently in an Opera production. With all due respect to the great players of France, I don't recommend that as a course of study, although Olivier Baumont and others are terrific continuo players, and I would not mind having a lesson from him on Rameau. Improvisation is not really high on the list, it is a great skill to have, but even if you could, as some of the great cornetto players can, improvise in the style of Bassano and others, this would definitely not land you a job. Transposition is a more useful skill to make an impression, and of course sight reading and orchestral skills areby far the most important. Many lute players simply don't have the right orchestral skills--not their fault, as these are not taught in courses. I would be happy to draw up a course of study for your daughter if you enquire offline, or you can do what most aspiring pros do, and work with Nigel. He has an excellent track record, and his students are well trained. dt __ From: Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plalinguage a.or.jp To: Christopher Witmer cdwit...@spamcop.net; LuteNet list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 4:24:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Any hints on how to develop improvisational ability? As you probably know, if she is going to make a career practicing something foreign in Japan, it is essential that she study abroad in order for her to get the Japanese stamp of approval. Do read that Odette interview. He mentions that continuo and the ability to read notation are vital for earning a living. As Rob mentioned, attitude is part of improvising. It is another language and you cannot learn a language without making lots of mistakes. On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:17 PM, Christopher Witmer wrote: It has been quite some time since I posted to the list, but I have two questions for list members. Perhaps these two questions are related . . . I'm not musical enough to say for sure. Question 1. My third daughter, now age 17, has been playing the lute seriously for a few years now, and has decided that she would like to try to major in the lute at an overseas conservatory -- probably in Strasbourg, France. (Practically speaking, there are no conservatories in our home of Japan where she could study lute.) My daughter is extremely serious and dedicated in her studies. She just bought a new lute for about $4,000 (USD) with money that she earned through her part-time job. She plays the lute for at least three hours each day, and she is also very good at the piano. She does very well with her solfege studies as well. However, her lute teacher recently pointed out to her that if she hopes to play the lute professionally in the future she will need to become much more proficient in playing improvisationally. This is something my daughter is not naturally good at. I know some people are naturally good at it because my wife, who gave up piano lessons at age 13 when she could no longer advance without being able to read music (up to that point, her teacher had always assumed she was reading the music, when she was in fact playing by ear), can improvise better at the piano than anyone else in our family, even the two older daughters who are both conservatory students. And my second-youngest daughter also seems to have my wife's gift for improvisation -- in fact, a few times she has picked up a new instrument and within a few minutes she has been able to fake it well enough that, to an untrained person at least, she gives the impression that she has been taking lessons for a while: there is real music coming out. But my third daughter, despite having very good lute technique, has never been one to improvise, and this new demand is presenting a bit of a challenge for her. Is improvisational ability something that you either have or you don't? Or is it something that can be learned? Are there any tips concerning how my daughter could most effectively approach this? I'm assuming that her teacher is also trying to guide her in this regard, but it occurs to me that if he just happens to be one of those people who naturally improvises well, maybe he doesn't really know how to help a person like her improve in this area. (He plays not only lute but also rock, jazz and classical guitar, while my daughter has never played any string instrument besides the lute.) In any case, I would be interested in knowing what sorts of ideas people on the list might be able to offer. Question 2
