[LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute?
Thank you David, But the point being made was that it may well not be that '90 percent that are still set up wrong' as you assert but that the player's posture is wrong (eg holding cradled in the lap and/or too close to horizontal) and/or the plucking position is inappropriate. If these defects, of the player not the instrument, are attended to you may not find that such a large proportion of large instruments are 'set up wrong'. Regarding your observation about Lynda Sayce's playing: ' As far as chords on the theorbo, Linda does a great job, I just saw a vid of her playing the Stabat Mater, and if one had large hands, one could of course play every chord.'' , what precisely is meant by 'play every chord' . Are you suggesting that all nominal G lute chords should be playable on a theorbo? Martyn --- On Sat, 14/4/12, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute? To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Saturday, 14 April, 2012, 22:11 Absolutely agree that technique is important! But those 90 percent that are still set up wrong, ouch! all those missed notes, so unnecessary. On a double strung instrument, it is a cart-horse scenario. You cannot develop technique unless the spacing is correct, just like you can't dance in the wrong trousers. Pedaling the cart and horse backwards. Main reason people don't make a good sound: wrong setup. So, you may say, I don't want to replace my lute or drill out the bridge--fair enough! Try one of mine first. You will be convinced in five minutes and also reap the health benefits of a stay in California. The spacing at the rose to which you refer is part of the equation. Three points determine the string lines: bridge, nut, plucking point (string thickness as well, if you don't measure from the edges). I'm now doing some super-macro videos that show how the strings vibrate in tandem when spaced correctly. It is very interesting! As far as chords on the theorbo, Linda does a great job, I just saw a vid of her playing the Stabat Mater, and if one had large hands, one could of course play every chord. And if one didn't have large hands, one could change the spacing to play everything as well--no double strings on the modern theorbo to go twang in the night. dt __ From: Martyn Hodgson [1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk To: [2]vidan...@sbcglobal.net Cc: Lute Dmth [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; [4]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk Sent: Wed, April 11, 2012 1:46:06 AM Subject: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute? David, Clearly the overall size of an instrument and things like string spacing are relevant to the ease of playing. But if a player struggles with a particular size and/or specification of lute, before jumping to erroneous conclusions it's important to see if the player's posture and hand position/technique are not the real culprits. Regarding the 'wrong' size instrument: a player may seem to struggle with a larger instrument than that they are used to simply because they are holding it an unsuitable/inappropriate manner - rather that their arms/hands are intrinsically incapable of the stretch required. For example, if a player holds a large lute instrument as a modern 'classical' guitar (ie cradled low down in the lap and at a relatively low angle to the ground) they may find left arm stretch difficulties which can readily be overcome by adopting a posture with the instrument resting on the right thigh (as often seen in early representations). This can result in the instrument now being held some 10/15cm to the player's right and bringing the nut a similar distance closer to the left hand and so stretches which had previously seemed difficult may be more readily achieved. Holding a large instrument in a more upright position also helps since it better fits with the arm/body geometry and increases the effective stretch of the left arm. The end result of all this is to give up to 15cm extra left arm stretch and thus increasing the effective left arm stretch from, say, 76cm string length to around 90cm. Similarly, if a player is playing well up to the rose rather than close to the bridge, the natural tapering of string separation from bridge to nut will result in a small, but noticeable, reduction in string separation at the actual plucking point which is not the fault of the string spacing at the bridge but of the player's own technique
[LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute?
And thank you again David, Indeed, as I pointed out earlier it is the precise plucking point which is relevant. In particular if the player is plucking, say, up to the rose then the geometry of the instrument will result in a smaller course seperation than if they were plucking close to the bridge: - again a matter of the player's own technique rather than a deficiency in the instrument. In short, before blaming an instrument's size and specification the player should look to themselves first and ensure the problem isn't with their own posture and technique. Martyn --- On Sat, 14/4/12, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute? To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Saturday, 14 April, 2012, 22:30 The important number is not the bridge or nut, but the spacing at the plucking point, which is derived from the string length, and the overall spacing plan, plus the thickness of the strings. Unless you go close parallel, which is more common on early instruments, 5mm is going to wing up being just on the edge. BUT you can of course widen it at the other end. And there, it depends a lot on the circumference of your fourth finger of the left hand when stopping the string. That needs to feel just right to execute fast trills. dt __ From: Anthony Hart [1]resea...@monsignor-reggio.com To: lute [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, April 11, 2012 2:51:18 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute? whilst on the subject of lute set up, I have a question of the action of the bass courses of a 14c Liuto attiorbato. I have found several suggestions concerning the ideal height of the bass strings above the finger board. 1. The strings should be about 5mm at the lower nut. 2. The strings should be in the same plane as the stopped strings. From observation from drawings: 1. A drawing of the 1639 Sellas instrument (upon which my instrument is based)by Robert Lundberg the top nut appears to be slightly lower than the line of the finger board. Also the upper nut appears to have a slight curve, as with a violin bridge, making the lowest course slightly lower than the preceding ones. 2. A drawing of the Railich instrument shows the line of the bass courses higher than the stopped ones. These observations are based on the thumbnail views from the appropriate websites so exact measurements not possible. Any other ideas? Many thanks Anthony David, Clearly the overall size of an instrument and things like string spacing are relevant to the ease of playing. But if a player struggles with a particular size and/or specification of lute, before jumping to erroneous conclusions it's important to see if the player's posture and hand position/technique are not the real culprits. Regarding the 'wrong' size instrument: a player may seem to struggle with a larger instrument than that they are used to simply because they are holding it an unsuitable/inappropriate manner - rather that their arms/hands are intrinsically incapable of the stretch required. For example, if a player holds a large lute instrument as a modern 'classical' guitar (ie cradled low down in the lap and at a relatively low angle to the ground) they may find left arm stretch difficulties which can readily be overcome by adopting a posture with the instrument resting on the right thigh (as often seen in early representations). This can result in the instrument now being held some 10/15cm to the player's right and bringing the nut a similar distance closer to the left hand and so stretches which had previously seemed difficult may be more readily achieved. Holding a large instrument in a more upright position also helps since it better fits with the arm/body geometry and increases the effective stretch of the left arm. The end result of all this is to give up to 15cm extra left arm stretch and thus increasing the effective left arm stretch from, say, 76cm string length to around 90cm. Similarly, if a player is playing well up to the rose rather than close to the bridge, the natural tapering of string separation from bridge to nut will result in a small, but noticeable, reduction in string separation
[LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute?
lute makers probably should check a palm size before deciding on fingerboard and other things, like on this movie (have a look at around 12,20 min) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHV3ODfFcgE Obviously not very often we live close to our lute maker. Pitty JL To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute?
Not sure I understand your question, but not all chords are playable by everyone on all lutes. However, most chords can be played on most lutes. If I had small hands, I could go to a smaller theorbo, or avoid certain chords, but it isn't really an issue for me. OTOH, if I had very large hands, lets say 50 percent larger, I could play a 90/180cm no problem and it would seem as if I were playing a 60 cm lute. Similarly, a modest 33 percent difference would yield an effective play ratio from 80 to 60. My teacher could easily stop two double courses with the tip of the index finger; I cannot. And there is that one E major chord that I can't play on most lutes. But on my mandolin, it is a piece of cake. So then if there were chords that you could not play on a 60 cm lute, that would equate to 33+ person on the 80cm, disregarding for the moment the distinct advantage of a single strung theorbo. One can also calculate the effective span of the instrument according to spacing. So for example, certain chords become playable when you narrow the spacing. In practice, I don't notice any gosh I can't reach those chords moments until I go above 85cm. But if I had smaller hands, that number would of course be significantly different; larger hands, and I would wonder what people were talking about. It would not register. Another way to look at it is that try as I might, I cannot palm a basketball. All I can do is dribble. dt __ From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Sun, April 15, 2012 12:49:39 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute? Thank you David, But the point being made was that it may well not be that '90 percent that are still set up wrong' as you assert but that the player's posture is wrong (eg holding cradled in the lap and/or too close to horizontal) and/or the plucking position is inappropriate. If these defects, of the player not the instrument, are attended to you may not find that such a large proportion of large instruments are 'set up wrong'. Regarding your observation about Lynda Sayce's playing: ' As far as chords on the theorbo, Linda does a great job, I just saw a vid of her playing the Stabat Mater, and if one had large hands, one could of course play every chord.'' , what precisely is meant by 'play every chord' . Are you suggesting that all nominal G lute chords should be playable on a theorbo? Martyn --- On Sat, 14/4/12, David Tayler [1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: David Tayler [2]vidan...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute? To: lute [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Saturday, 14 April, 2012, 22:11 Absolutely agree that technique is important! But those 90 percent that are still set up wrong, ouch! all those missed notes, so unnecessary. On a double strung instrument, it is a cart-horse scenario. You cannot develop technique unless the spacing is correct, just like you can't dance in the wrong trousers. Pedaling the cart and horse backwards. Main reason people don't make a good sound: wrong setup. So, you may say, I don't want to replace my lute or drill out the bridge--fair enough! Try one of mine first. You will be convinced in five minutes and also reap the health benefits of a stay in California. The spacing at the rose to which you refer is part of the equation. Three points determine the string lines: bridge, nut, plucking point (string thickness as well, if you don't measure from the edges). I'm now doing some super-macro videos that show how the strings vibrate in tandem when spaced correctly. It is very interesting! As far as chords on the theorbo, Linda does a great job, I just saw a vid of her playing the Stabat Mater, and if one had large hands, one could of course play every chord. And if one didn't have large hands, one could change the spacing to play everything as well--no double strings on the modern theorbo to go twang in the night. dt __ From: Martyn Hodgson [1][4]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk To: [2][5]vidan...@sbcglobal.net Cc: Lute Dmth [3][6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; [4][7]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk Sent: Wed, April 11, 2012 1:46:06 AM Subject: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute? David, Clearly the overall size of an instrument and things
[LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute?
yup! __ From: JarosAA'aw Lipski jaroslawlip...@wp.pl To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sun, April 15, 2012 9:24:58 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute? lute makers probably should check a palm size before deciding on fingerboard and other things, like on this movie (have a look at around 12,20 min) [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHV3ODfFcgE Obviously not very often we live close to our lute maker. Pitty JL To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHV3ODfFcgE 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute?
Absolutely agree that technique is important! But those 90 percent that are still set up wrong, ouch! all those missed notes, so unnecessary. On a double strung instrument, it is a cart-horse scenario. You cannot develop technique unless the spacing is correct, just like you can't dance in the wrong trousers. Pedaling the cart and horse backwards. Main reason people don't make a good sound: wrong setup. So, you may say, I don't want to replace my lute or drill out the bridge--fair enough! Try one of mine first. You will be convinced in five minutes and also reap the health benefits of a stay in California. The spacing at the rose to which you refer is part of the equation. Three points determine the string lines: bridge, nut, plucking point (string thickness as well, if you don't measure from the edges). I'm now doing some super-macro videos that show how the strings vibrate in tandem when spaced correctly. It is very interesting! As far as chords on the theorbo, Linda does a great job, I just saw a vid of her playing the Stabat Mater, and if one had large hands, one could of course play every chord. And if one didn't have large hands, one could change the spacing to play everything as well--no double strings on the modern theorbo to go twang in the night. dt __ From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk To: vidan...@sbcglobal.net Cc: Lute Dmth lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; willsam...@yahoo.co.uk Sent: Wed, April 11, 2012 1:46:06 AM Subject: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute? David, Clearly the overall size of an instrument and things like string spacing are relevant to the ease of playing. But if a player struggles with a particular size and/or specification of lute, before jumping to erroneous conclusions it's important to see if the player's posture and hand position/technique are not the real culprits. Regarding the 'wrong' size instrument: a player may seem to struggle with a larger instrument than that they are used to simply because they are holding it an unsuitable/inappropriate manner - rather that their arms/hands are intrinsically incapable of the stretch required. For example, if a player holds a large lute instrument as a modern 'classical' guitar (ie cradled low down in the lap and at a relatively low angle to the ground) they may find left arm stretch difficulties which can readily be overcome by adopting a posture with the instrument resting on the right thigh (as often seen in early representations). This can result in the instrument now being held some 10/15cm to the player's right and bringing the nut a similar distance closer to the left hand and so stretches which had previously seemed difficult may be more readily achieved. Holding a large instrument in a more upright position also helps since it better fits with the arm/body geometry and increases the effective stretch of the left arm. The end result of all this is to give up to 15cm extra left arm stretch and thus increasing the effective left arm stretch from, say, 76cm string length to around 90cm. Similarly, if a player is playing well up to the rose rather than close to the bridge, the natural tapering of string separation from bridge to nut will result in a small, but noticeable, reduction in string separation at the actual plucking point which is not the fault of the string spacing at the bridge but of the player's own technique. Finally, specifically with regard to the theorbo, as Lynda Sayce points out ([1]http://www.theorbo.com/Theorbo/Theorbo.htm), if a theorbo player is trying to employ ordinary lute fingered chords, rather than those appropriate to the theorbo, they may also struggle. In short, before blaming an instrument's size and specification the player should look to themselves first and ensure the problem isn't with their own posture and technique. Martyn --- On Mon, 9/4/12, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute? To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, 9 April, 2012, 22:27 Ninety percent of the lutes I see are set up wrong and are also the wrong size for the person playing. I doubt that this will change anytime soon: once someone buys the wrong size instrument, they either keep it or trade it in for another one that is the wrong size. So I would rate size and setup as the number one issue, based on my experience that the player will have to go through a very long retraining period after learning on a lute that is the wrong size. Why pedal backwards? Of the setup issues, the number one issue is the span and spacing. Without the right span and spacing
[LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute?
The important number is not the bridge or nut, but the spacing at the plucking point, which is derived from the string length, and the overall spacing plan, plus the thickness of the strings. Unless you go close parallel, which is more common on early instruments, 5mm is going to wing up being just on the edge. BUT you can of course widen it at the other end. And there, it depends a lot on the circumference of your fourth finger of the left hand when stopping the string. That needs to feel just right to execute fast trills. dt __ From: Anthony Hart resea...@monsignor-reggio.com To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, April 11, 2012 2:51:18 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute? whilst on the subject of lute set up, I have a question of the action of the bass courses of a 14c Liuto attiorbato. I have found several suggestions concerning the ideal height of the bass strings above the finger board. 1. The strings should be about 5mm at the lower nut. 2. The strings should be in the same plane as the stopped strings. From observation from drawings: 1. A drawing of the 1639 Sellas instrument (upon which my instrument is based)by Robert Lundberg the top nut appears to be slightly lower than the line of the finger board. Also the upper nut appears to have a slight curve, as with a violin bridge, making the lowest course slightly lower than the preceding ones. 2. A drawing of the Railich instrument shows the line of the bass courses higher than the stopped ones. These observations are based on the thumbnail views from the appropriate websites so exact measurements not possible. Any other ideas? Many thanks Anthony David, Clearly the overall size of an instrument and things like string spacing are relevant to the ease of playing. But if a player struggles with a particular size and/or specification of lute, before jumping to erroneous conclusions it's important to see if the player's posture and hand position/technique are not the real culprits. Regarding the 'wrong' size instrument: a player may seem to struggle with a larger instrument than that they are used to simply because they are holding it an unsuitable/inappropriate manner - rather that their arms/hands are intrinsically incapable of the stretch required. For example, if a player holds a large lute instrument as a modern 'classical' guitar (ie cradled low down in the lap and at a relatively low angle to the ground) they may find left arm stretch difficulties which can readily be overcome by adopting a posture with the instrument resting on the right thigh (as often seen in early representations). This can result in the instrument now being held some 10/15cm to the player's right and bringing the nut a similar distance closer to the left hand and so stretches which had previously seemed difficult may be more readily achieved. Holding a large instrument in a more upright position also helps since it better fits with the arm/body geometry and increases the effective stretch of the left arm. The end result of all this is to give up to 15cm extra left arm stretch and thus increasing the effective left arm stretch from, say, 76cm string length to around 90cm. Similarly, if a player is playing well up to the rose rather than close to the bridge, the natural tapering of string separation from bridge to nut will result in a small, but noticeable, reduction in string separation at the actual plucking point which is not the fault of the string spacing at the bridge but of the player's own technique. Finally, specifically with regard to the theorbo, as Lynda Sayce points out ([1][1]http://www.theorbo.com/Theorbo/Theorbo.htm), if a theorbo player is trying to employ ordinary lute fingered chords, rather than those appropriate to the theorbo, they may also struggle. In short, before blaming an instrument's size and specification the player should look to themselves first and ensure the problem isn't with their own posture and technique. Martyn --- On Mon, 9/4/12, David Tayler [2]vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: David Tayler [3]vidan...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute? To: lute [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, 9 April, 2012, 22:27 Ninety percent of the lutes I see are set up wrong and are also the wrong size for the person playing. I doubt that this will change anytime soon: once someone buys the wrong size instrument, they either keep it or trade it in for another one that is the wrong size. So
[LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute?
whilst on the subject of lute set up, I have a question of the action of the bass courses of a 14c Liuto attiorbato. I have found several suggestions concerning the ideal height of the bass strings above the finger board. 1. The strings should be about 5mm at the lower nut. 2. The strings should be in the same plane as the stopped strings. From observation from drawings: 1. A drawing of the 1639 Sellas instrument (upon which my instrument is based)by Robert Lundberg the top nut appears to be slightly lower than the line of the finger board. Also the upper nut appears to have a slight curve, as with a violin bridge, making the lowest course slightly lower than the preceding ones. 2. A drawing of the Railich instrument shows the line of the bass courses higher than the stopped ones. These observations are based on the thumbnail views from the appropriate websites so exact measurements not possible. Any other ideas? Many thanks Anthony David, Clearly the overall size of an instrument and things like string spacing are relevant to the ease of playing. But if a player struggles with a particular size and/or specification of lute, before jumping to erroneous conclusions it's important to see if the player's posture and hand position/technique are not the real culprits. Regarding the 'wrong' size instrument: a player may seem to struggle with a larger instrument than that they are used to simply because they are holding it an unsuitable/inappropriate manner - rather that their arms/hands are intrinsically incapable of the stretch required. For example, if a player holds a large lute instrument as a modern 'classical' guitar (ie cradled low down in the lap and at a relatively low angle to the ground) they may find left arm stretch difficulties which can readily be overcome by adopting a posture with the instrument resting on the right thigh (as often seen in early representations). This can result in the instrument now being held some 10/15cm to the player's right and bringing the nut a similar distance closer to the left hand and so stretches which had previously seemed difficult may be more readily achieved. Holding a large instrument in a more upright position also helps since it better fits with the arm/body geometry and increases the effective stretch of the left arm. The end result of all this is to give up to 15cm extra left arm stretch and thus increasing the effective left arm stretch from, say, 76cm string length to around 90cm. Similarly, if a player is playing well up to the rose rather than close to the bridge, the natural tapering of string separation from bridge to nut will result in a small, but noticeable, reduction in string separation at the actual plucking point which is not the fault of the string spacing at the bridge but of the player's own technique. Finally, specifically with regard to the theorbo, as Lynda Sayce points out ([1]http://www.theorbo.com/Theorbo/Theorbo.htm), if a theorbo player is trying to employ ordinary lute fingered chords, rather than those appropriate to the theorbo, they may also struggle. In short, before blaming an instrument's size and specification the player should look to themselves first and ensure the problem isn't with their own posture and technique. Martyn --- On Mon, 9/4/12, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute? To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, 9 April, 2012, 22:27 Ninety percent of the lutes I see are set up wrong and are also the wrong size for the person playing. I doubt that this will change anytime soon: once someone buys the wrong size instrument, they either keep it or trade it in for another one that is the wrong size. So I would rate size and setup as the number one issue, based on my experience that the player will have to go through a very long retraining period after learning on a lute that is the wrong size. Why pedal backwards? Of the setup issues, the number one issue is the span and spacing. Without the right span and spacing, which reconciles two numbers, the size of the hand (and fingers) and the rules which govern the span and spacing of strings. Without these two numbers in balance, it is impossible, or very difficult to make a good sound. When these numbers are in balance, it is easy to make a good sound; in fact, it is difficult to make a bad sound. No one would wear size 4 or size 11 shoes if they are a size 9, and yet, that is precisely what happens. Sadly, people are rarely fitted to the lute, even though the lute is from the age of custom made. Equally sadly, most people do not understand the basic physics of twang, thwack and pluck, which involves some simple experiments with a special bridge and nut
[LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute?
Dear Anthony, As far as I am aware, there is historical information about this matter and, clearly, extant instruments will have deformed over time so that modern drawings (even if wholly accurate) may tell us little about what the original maker was aiming for. But since you asked for views here are mine. The uppermost pegbox nut needs to be disposed so that there is indeed a clearance of the low basses at the principal nut otherwise, unless the most gentle stroke is employed, these strings will rattle against the fingerboard. The precise amount of clearance is debatable: on one theorbo (double re-entrant 92 cm fingered/170 basses - all single) at the principal nut I have a clearance of the low basses above the fingerboard at around 6mm - but less may be possible if playing gently and more may be desirable if the play if very forceful or if the player is causing the string to vibrate too much up and down rather than from side to side. But note that this clearance is after the neck has come up as a resulting of bringing the instrument up to tension. - over time this pull-up increases and adjustments need to be made to the upper nut to maintain the clearance. On my smaller theorbo with just the first course down (76cm double fingered/145cm single basses) I see I also have around 6mm. And on my own 14c liuto attiorbato (sadly little played) with 7 octaved basses of 93cm and 7 fingered of 64cm I currently have a clearance of 5mm but recall it was set finer when first made and, being much shorter and comparatively stiffer than a theorbo upper neck, it has pulled up very little over time. Others may have different views depending on their own preferred clearances rgds Martyn --- On Wed, 11/4/12, Anthony Hart resea...@monsignor-reggio.com wrote: From: Anthony Hart resea...@monsignor-reggio.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute? To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 11 April, 2012, 10:51 whilst on the subject of lute set up, I have a question of the action of the bass courses of a 14c Liuto attiorbato. I have found several suggestions concerning the ideal height of the bass strings above the finger board. 1. The strings should be about 5mm at the lower nut. 2. The strings should be in the same plane as the stopped strings. From observation from drawings: 1. A drawing of the 1639 Sellas instrument (upon which my instrument is based)by Robert Lundberg the top nut appears to be slightly lower than the line of the finger board. Also the upper nut appears to have a slight curve, as with a violin bridge, making the lowest course slightly lower than the preceding ones. 2. A drawing of the Railich instrument shows the line of the bass courses higher than the stopped ones. These observations are based on the thumbnail views from the appropriate websites so exact measurements not possible. Any other ideas? Many thanks Anthony David, Clearly the overall size of an instrument and things like string spacing are relevant to the ease of playing. But if a player struggles with a particular size and/or specification of lute, before jumping to erroneous conclusions it's important to see if the player's posture and hand position/technique are not the real culprits. Regarding the 'wrong' size instrument: a player may seem to struggle with a larger instrument than that they are used to simply because they are holding it an unsuitable/inappropriate manner - rather that their arms/hands are intrinsically incapable of the stretch required. For example, if a player holds a large lute instrument as a modern 'classical' guitar (ie cradled low down in the lap and at a relatively low angle to the ground) they may find left arm stretch difficulties which can readily be overcome by adopting a posture with the instrument resting on the right thigh (as often seen in early representations). This can result in the instrument now being held some 10/15cm to the player's right and bringing the nut a similar distance closer to the left hand and so stretches which had previously seemed difficult may be more readily achieved. Holding a large instrument in a more upright position also helps since it better fits with the arm/body geometry and increases the effective stretch of the left arm. The end result of all this is to give up to 15cm extra left arm stretch and thus increasing the effective left arm stretch from, say, 76cm string length to around 90cm. Similarly, if a player is playing well up to the rose rather than close to the bridge, the natural tapering of string separation from bridge to nut
