[LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.

[Tristan von Neumann]

I beg to differ - James Corbett is all but right wing.

If anything, he's an anarcho-libertarian, and splitting society into 
wings is one thing he despises most...


I have been following him for the last 12 years or so and his research 
is well done, albeit uncomfortable.
He's also connected to Prof. Michel Chossudovsky's Global Research, 
hardly a right-wing personality.


Don't believe everything people say - especially if it's the "right 
wing" accusation, which ultimately implies that one is a "Nazi".


Like in previous centuries with the church or ruthless bankers like the 
Fuggers, labelling people as "heretics" is one key element of oppression.
These days it's just more perfect with modern PR strategies developed 
during the 20th century (read Edward Bernays' "Propaganda" and you will 
understand).
Anyone who cannot see this is probably just afraid to admit that we 
still haven't reached freedom from mammonism and slavery.

Musicians normally are the first people to notice...

Cheers,
Tristan

Am 13.11.2017 um 17:20 schrieb John Mardinly:

The Corbett Report is a right wing conspiracy site, probably the last thing we 
need posted on a listserver dedicated to lute.

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.


The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
Francisco Goya




On Nov 13, 2017, at 7:30 AM, Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote:

   Thank you, David, for your helpful comments.  As one who has suffered
   from chronic inflammation in both hands, I agree wholeheartedly with
   your observation that healing takes a great deal of time, and that our
   ancestors must have had the same problems.

   Modern medicine has its place, but the traditional approach that takes
   into account thousands of years of our cumulative understanding of
   physiology and the causes of disease and disability deserves wider
   recognition and greater acceptance.  A fascinating look at how modern
   pharmacological medical practices have aggressively sought to displace
   traditional medicine can be seen in this important video:

   
[1]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.corbettreport.com_-3Fs-3Drockefeller-2Bmedicine=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=O4h62KngbA3GWpVk4m3_BgGWJ8x8r9bzcdAfv77NRGk=omxVjrwBI5BZyO6awN_No6LNWKNAWjJBvxnsFDtOORU=
   RA
 __

   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf
   of David <da...@indiana-om.com>
   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:19 AM
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.

   --F58A74111488PI3NN6NKG4UP5SST4D
   Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=utf-8
   Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
   Hi all -
   This is my first time posting in one of these threads, but I wanted to
   add a couple thoughts to the discussion.
   Permit me to give a little of my non-lute background: I am a doctor of
   Chinese medicine (acupuncture and herbal medicine, as well as
   massage/Qi Gong/tai ji, etc.), and am located in Bloomington, IN, where
   I treat not infrequently both students and faculty of the Jacobs School
   of Music here at Indiana University for "overuse" injuries.
   Two thoughts in particular come to mind. The first is that we do have
   small muscles between the bones of the hand to pull the fingers
   together (like for a military salute), and these may be complaining due
   to overuse. However, the biggest challenge to regaining facility on the
   lute is that the ligaments between the fingers will have to stretch.
   Tensions and ligaments don't have their own blood supply, and make
   changes (including healing) very, VERY gradually. To rush this process
   is to court long-term problems. (And as much as we like to think we are
   learning a great deal about techniques and strategies from 400 years
   ago, we can't know how many gifted lutenists of several centuries back
   either had to give up their instruments or play in significant pain due
   to overuse injuries.)
   The second thing is that almost all our activity in this age is limited
   to very small ranges of motion: driving a car, typing on the computer,
   etc. We were designed to throw spears, jump rivers, and climb trees.
   Our miniscule movements, without any broader movements, stress our
   fine-motor structures, and cause injury. It is only a slight
   oversimplification to say that our primary need in being able to play
   lute without pain is to exercise our whole bodies in such a way as to
   strengthen our cores, then to pay attention to the signals our bodies
   send to us.
   Tai ji, Qi Gong, and yoga are all great strategies for building that
   core strength and range of motion. As for your hand(s), go gently, and
   apply a good linement and combine rest with moderate massage to address
   achy ligaments.

[LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.

[John Mardinly]

   But it IS a non-fact based conspiracy site.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Nov 13, 2017, at 9:33 AM, Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:

   Just to set the record straight, the Corbett Report is not at all
   right-wing, it's Libertarian if anything.  I subscribe to neither
   approach.  I have an open and inquiring mind.
 __

   From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   behalf of John Mardinly <[4]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:20 PM
   To: Ron Andrico
   Cc: David; [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.

   The Corbett Report is a right wing conspiracy site, probably the last
   thing we need posted on a listserver dedicated to lute.
   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya
   > On Nov 13, 2017, at 7:30 AM, Ron Andrico <[6]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:
   >
   >   Thank you, David, for your helpful comments.  As one who has
   suffered
   >   from chronic inflammation in both hands, I agree wholeheartedly
   with
   >   your observation that healing takes a great deal of time, and that
   our
   >   ancestors must have had the same problems.
   >
   >   Modern medicine has its place, but the traditional approach that
   takes
   >   into account thousands of years of our cumulative understanding of
   >   physiology and the causes of disease and disability deserves wider
   >   recognition and greater acceptance.  A fascinating look at how
   modern
   >   pharmacological medical practices have aggressively sought to
   displace
   >   traditional medicine can be seen in this important video:
   >
   >
   [1][7]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.corbettr
   eport.com_-3Fs-3Drockefeller-2Bmedicine=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9v
   YR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E
   =O4h62KngbA3GWpVk4m3_BgGWJ8x8r9bzcdAfv77NRGk=omxVjrwBI5BZyO6awN_No6LN
   WKNAWjJBvxnsFDtOORU=
   >   RA
   >
   __
   >
   >   From: [8]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[9]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   on behalf
   >   of David <[10]da...@indiana-om.com>
   >   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:19 AM
   >   To: [11]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   >   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.
   >
   >   --F58A74111488PI3NN6NKG4UP5SST4D
   >   Content-Type: text/plain;
   >charset=utf-8
   >   Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
   >   Hi all -
   >   This is my first time posting in one of these threads, but I wanted
   to
   >   add a couple thoughts to the discussion.
   >   Permit me to give a little of my non-lute background: I am a doctor
   of
   >   Chinese medicine (acupuncture and herbal medicine, as well as
   >   massage/Qi Gong/tai ji, etc.), and am located in Bloomington, IN,
   where
   >   I treat not infrequently both students and faculty of the Jacobs
   School
   >   of Music here at Indiana University for "overuse" injuries.
   >   Two thoughts in particular come to mind. The first is that we do
   have
   >   small muscles between the bones of the hand to pull the fingers
   >   together (like for a military salute), and these may be complaining
   due
   >   to overuse. However, the biggest challenge to regaining facility on
   the
   >   lute is that the ligaments between the fingers will have to
   stretch.
   >   Tensions and ligaments don't have their own blood supply, and make
   >   changes (including healing) very, VERY gradually. To rush this
   process
   >   is to court long-term problems. (And as much as we like to think we
   are
   >   learning a great deal about techniques and strategies from 400
   years
   >   ago, we can't know how many gifted lutenists of several centuries
   back
   >   either had to give up their instruments or play in significant pain
   due
   >   to overuse injuries.)
   >   The second thing is that almost all our activity in this age is
   limited
   >   to very small ranges of motion: driving a car, typing on the
   computer,
   >   etc. We were designed to throw spears, jump rivers, and climb
   trees.
   >   Our miniscule movements, without any broader movements, stress our
   >   fine-motor structures, and cause injury. It is only a slight
   >   oversimplification to say that our primary need in being able to
   play
   >   lute without pain is to exercise our whole bodies in such a way as
   to
   >   strengthen our cores, then to pay attention to the signals our
   bodies
   >   send to us.
   >   Tai ji, Qi Gong, and yoga 

[LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.

[John Mardinly]

The Corbett Report is a right wing conspiracy site, probably the last thing we 
need posted on a listserver dedicated to lute.

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.


The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
Francisco Goya



> On Nov 13, 2017, at 7:30 AM, Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>   Thank you, David, for your helpful comments.  As one who has suffered
>   from chronic inflammation in both hands, I agree wholeheartedly with
>   your observation that healing takes a great deal of time, and that our
>   ancestors must have had the same problems.
> 
>   Modern medicine has its place, but the traditional approach that takes
>   into account thousands of years of our cumulative understanding of
>   physiology and the causes of disease and disability deserves wider
>   recognition and greater acceptance.  A fascinating look at how modern
>   pharmacological medical practices have aggressively sought to displace
>   traditional medicine can be seen in this important video:
> 
>   
> [1]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.corbettreport.com_-3Fs-3Drockefeller-2Bmedicine=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=O4h62KngbA3GWpVk4m3_BgGWJ8x8r9bzcdAfv77NRGk=omxVjrwBI5BZyO6awN_No6LNWKNAWjJBvxnsFDtOORU=
>   RA
> __
> 
>   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf
>   of David <da...@indiana-om.com>
>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:19 AM
>   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.
> 
>   --F58A74111488PI3NN6NKG4UP5SST4D
>   Content-Type: text/plain;
>charset=utf-8
>   Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>   Hi all -
>   This is my first time posting in one of these threads, but I wanted to
>   add a couple thoughts to the discussion.
>   Permit me to give a little of my non-lute background: I am a doctor of
>   Chinese medicine (acupuncture and herbal medicine, as well as
>   massage/Qi Gong/tai ji, etc.), and am located in Bloomington, IN, where
>   I treat not infrequently both students and faculty of the Jacobs School
>   of Music here at Indiana University for "overuse" injuries.
>   Two thoughts in particular come to mind. The first is that we do have
>   small muscles between the bones of the hand to pull the fingers
>   together (like for a military salute), and these may be complaining due
>   to overuse. However, the biggest challenge to regaining facility on the
>   lute is that the ligaments between the fingers will have to stretch.
>   Tensions and ligaments don't have their own blood supply, and make
>   changes (including healing) very, VERY gradually. To rush this process
>   is to court long-term problems. (And as much as we like to think we are
>   learning a great deal about techniques and strategies from 400 years
>   ago, we can't know how many gifted lutenists of several centuries back
>   either had to give up their instruments or play in significant pain due
>   to overuse injuries.)
>   The second thing is that almost all our activity in this age is limited
>   to very small ranges of motion: driving a car, typing on the computer,
>   etc. We were designed to throw spears, jump rivers, and climb trees.
>   Our miniscule movements, without any broader movements, stress our
>   fine-motor structures, and cause injury. It is only a slight
>   oversimplification to say that our primary need in being able to play
>   lute without pain is to exercise our whole bodies in such a way as to
>   strengthen our cores, then to pay attention to the signals our bodies
>   send to us.
>   Tai ji, Qi Gong, and yoga are all great strategies for building that
>   core strength and range of motion. As for your hand(s), go gently, and
>   apply a good linement and combine rest with moderate massage to address
>   achy ligaments.
>   ⁣all the best,
>   David
>   --F58A74111488PI3NN6NKG4UP5SST4D
>   Content-Type: text/html;
>charset=utf-8
>   Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>   Hi all -
>   This is my first time posting in one of these threads,
>   but I wanted to add a couple thoughts to the discussion.
>   Permit me to give a little of my non-lute background: I
>   am a doctor of Chinese medicine (acupuncture and herbal medicine, as
>   well as massage/Qi Gong/tai ji, etc.), and am located in Bloomington,
>   IN, where I treat not infrequently both students and faculty of the
>   Jacobs School of Music here at Indiana University for "overuse"
>   injuries.
>   Two thoughts in particular come to mind. The first is
>   that we do have small muscles between the bones of the hand to pull

[LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.

[David]

--F58A74111488PI3NN6NKG4UP5SST4D
Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all -

This is my first time posting in one of these threads, but I wanted to add a 
couple thoughts to the discussion.

Permit me to give a little of my non-lute background: I am a doctor of Chinese 
medicine (acupuncture and herbal medicine, as well as massage/Qi Gong/tai ji, 
etc.), and am located in Bloomington, IN, where I treat not infrequently both 
students and faculty of the Jacobs School of Music here at Indiana University 
for "overuse" injuries.

Two thoughts in particular come to mind. The first is that we do have small 
muscles between the bones of the hand to pull the fingers together (like for a 
military salute), and these may be complaining due to overuse. However, the 
biggest challenge to regaining facility on the lute is that the ligaments 
between the fingers will have to stretch. Tensions and ligaments don't have 
their own blood supply, and make changes (including healing) very, VERY 
gradually. To rush this process is to court long-term problems. (And as much as 
we like to think we are learning a great deal about techniques and strategies 
from 400 years ago, we can't know how many gifted lutenists of several 
centuries back either had to give up their instruments or play in significant 
pain due to overuse injuries.)

The second thing is that almost all our activity in this age is limited to very 
small ranges of motion: driving a car, typing on the computer, etc. We were 
designed to throw spears, jump rivers, and climb trees. Our miniscule 
movements, without any broader movements, stress our fine-motor structures, and 
cause injury. It is only a slight oversimplification to say that our primary 
need in being able to play lute without pain is to exercise our whole bodies in 
such a way as to strengthen our cores, then to pay attention to the signals our 
bodies send to us.

Tai ji, Qi Gong, and yoga are all great strategies for building that core 
strength and range of motion. As for your hand(s), go gently, and apply a good 
linement and combine rest with moderate massage to address achy ligaments.

⁣all the best,

David

--F58A74111488PI3NN6NKG4UP5SST4D
Content-Type: text/html;
 charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all -
This is my first time posting in one of these threads, but I 
wanted to add a couple thoughts to the discussion.
Permit me to give a little of my non-lute background: I am a 
doctor of Chinese medicine (acupuncture and herbal medicine, as well as 
massage/Qi Gong/tai ji, etc.), and am located in Bloomington, IN, where I treat 
not infrequently both students and faculty of the Jacobs School of Music here 
at Indiana University for "overuse" injuries.
Two thoughts in particular come to mind. The first is that we 
do have small muscles between the bones of the hand to pull the fingers 
together (like for a military salute), and these may be complaining due to 
overuse. However, the biggest challenge to regaining facility on the lute is 
that the ligaments between the fingers will have to stretch. Tensions and 
ligaments don't have their own blood supply, and make changes (including 
healing) very, VERY gradually. To rush this process is to court long-term 
problems. (And as much as we like to think we are learning a great deal about 
techniques and strategies from 400 years ago, we can't know how many gifted 
lutenists of several centuries back either had to give up their instruments or 
play in significant pain due to overuse injuries.)
The second thing is that almost all our activity in this age is 
limited to very small ranges of motion: driving a car, typing on the computer, 
etc. We were designed to throw spears, jump rivers, and climb trees. Our 
miniscule movements, without any broader movements, stress our fine-motor 
structures, and cause injury. It is only a slight oversimplification to say 
that our primary need in being able to play lute without pain is to exercise 
our whole bodies in such a way as to strengthen our cores, then to pay 
attention to the signals our bodies send to us. 
Tai ji, Qi Gong, and yoga are all great strategies for building 
that core strength and range of motion. As for your hand(s), go gently, and 
apply a good linement and combine rest with moderate massage to address achy 
ligaments.
all the best,
David


--F58A74111488PI3NN6NKG4UP5SST4D--

--

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[LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.

[Tristan von Neumann]

This seems to be a difficult topic... I'll try to "put my mustard to it" 
as we Germans say...
As an amateur playing a 7c. lute for a good two years now, I can say the 
following:
I started playing the lute because of the beautifully balanced music I 
love so much which gives me a peace of mind. It was never about 
virtuosity. I loathe exercise pieces, of which there seem to be very few 
anyway - so few that these French guys even copied Newsidler's exercises 
for lack of own ideas. This gave me the impression that this wasn't a 
big issue then and should therefore not be an issue now.
Most people today seem to perceive the faster notes as "just a 
connection between harmonies", this leading to a somewhat mechanical 
playing. But if you play scales they have no meaning.
Even Newsidler's 2nd and 3rd Rules are sweet little pieces on their own 
made to not bore the player to death, and Mudarra's exercise fantasies 
are obviously designed to make exercise fun.


If you want exercise, there are always very nice pieces that focus on 
particular challenges. If I want scales, I go for a passamezzo by 
Waissel, if I want to practise polyphony, I play Dall'Aquila.

Or anything light and flowing by Francesco for both.

Speed is not the issue anyway, at least for me - I find that most 
lutenists play too fast. Isn't the Renaissance idea to find a speed 
matching your own pulse, which is about 60 beats per second? There's no 
tempo given because it is always a proportion of this pulse.
I found that if you take that as a rule, most pieces aren't that hard to 
play technically and it is much easier to find the "Renaissance groove", 
which is in my humble opinion the most important point in playing 
Renaissance music.
If your hand hurts, you just might want to try some easier pieces for a 
while. I found that after one hour the other ones go much easier.


I think Martin Shepherd made the most important point: playing the Lute 
is mostly an exercise of the mind, not the body.
While the modern guitar is somewhat heavy handed like a modern piano and 
requires some "muscle" to play, the Lute is so delicate that it's better 
compared with the clavichord - not much physical effort, but infinite 
delicacy.




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.

[Anthony Hart]

   Whoops sorry about last post.
   I welcome all your remarks but the main question concerned physical
   exercise pertaining to actual hand, i.e. Relaxing and removing tension.
   I have have been following a course of Alexander technique to correct
   posture but was wondering about flexibility exercise for hand.
   Best wishes
   Anthony
   On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 5:29 PM Anthony Hart
   <[1]anthony.hart1...@gmail.com> wrote:

   Thanks a lot!

   On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 4:51 PM Martin Shepherd
   <[2]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> wrote:

 A couple of possible answers:
 The secret to getting a full tone on the lute is to concentrate on
 quality not quantity.   If you force the sound it will not be any
 louder,
 just worse.   What is needed is full contact with both strings of a
 course, a deflection of the strings towards the soundboard and
 absolutely simultaneous release.
 Lute music does sometimes contain fast passages but you definitely
 can't
 play them if you're not relaxed, and trying too hard.
 M
 On 02/10/2017 15:53, WALSH STUART wrote:
 >
 > Very interesting Martin. If playing the lute should be physically
 easy
 > then two things come to mind: volume and speed.
 >
 > If the player uses little effort to pluck the string ( I mean the
 > player really is making an effort, giving the matter full
 attention)
 > then surely that isn't going to be very loud? Very possibly the
 > contexts in which the lute was actually played didn't require
 great
 > volume.
 >
 > What about effortless speed? Here   I am baffled too. Lots and
 lots of
 > lute music needs flurries of notes. Four flags and more and
 somehow
 > fast and light. (Later lute music can have lots of left hand alone
 > articulation.) I think that amateurs, then and now, can learn and
 play
 > quite difficult pieces but there are definite limitations on
 speed.
 >
 >
 > Stuart
 >
 >
 >
 >>
 >> I have also often found I play better after a break.   Presumably
 this
 >> is because the physical habits are a bit less strong, leaving
 some
 >> room for the careful mental work which is so important.
 >>
 >> Martin
 >>
 >>
 >> ---
 >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
 software.
 >> [3]https://www.avast.com/antivirus
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> To get on or off this list see list information at
 >> [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 >>
 >
 >

   --

   __
   Anthony Hart  MSc, LLCM,ALCM.
   Musicologist  and  Independent  Researcher
   Highrise Court 'B', Apt 2, Tigne' Street, Sliema, SLM3174, MALTA
   Mob: +356 9944 9552.

   e-mail:  [5]resea...@antoninoreggio.com; web:
   [6]www.monsignor-reggio.com

   NEW  Publications:  EDIZIONE  ANTONINO  REGGIO

   -  [7]www.edizionear.com

   for information and special offer

   --

   __
   Anthony Hart  MSc, LLCM,ALCM.
   Musicologist  and  Independent  Researcher
   Highrise Court 'B', Apt 2, Tigne' Street, Sliema, SLM3174, MALTA
   Mob: +356 9944 9552.
   e-mail:  [8]resea...@antoninoreggio.com; web:
   [9]www.monsignor-reggio.com
   NEW  Publications:  EDIZIONE  ANTONINO  REGGIO
   -  [10]www.edizionear.com
   for information and special offer

   --

References

   1. mailto:anthony.hart1...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk
   3. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   5. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com
   6. http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/
   7. http://www.edizionear.com/
   8. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com
   9. http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/
  10. http://www.edizionear.com/

[LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.

[Anthony Hart]

   Thanks a lot!

   On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 4:51 PM Martin Shepherd
   <[1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> wrote:

 A couple of possible answers:
 The secret to getting a full tone on the lute is to concentrate on
 quality not quantity.   If you force the sound it will not be any
 louder,
 just worse.   What is needed is full contact with both strings of a
 course, a deflection of the strings towards the soundboard and
 absolutely simultaneous release.
 Lute music does sometimes contain fast passages but you definitely
 can't
 play them if you're not relaxed, and trying too hard.
 M
 On 02/10/2017 15:53, WALSH STUART wrote:
 >
 > Very interesting Martin. If playing the lute should be physically
 easy
 > then two things come to mind: volume and speed.
 >
 > If the player uses little effort to pluck the string ( I mean the
 > player really is making an effort, giving the matter full
 attention)
 > then surely that isn't going to be very loud? Very possibly the
 > contexts in which the lute was actually played didn't require
 great
 > volume.
 >
 > What about effortless speed? Here   I am baffled too. Lots and
 lots of
 > lute music needs flurries of notes. Four flags and more and
 somehow
 > fast and light. (Later lute music can have lots of left hand alone
 > articulation.) I think that amateurs, then and now, can learn and
 play
 > quite difficult pieces but there are definite limitations on
 speed.
 >
 >
 > Stuart
 >
 >
 >
 >>
 >> I have also often found I play better after a break.   Presumably
 this
 >> is because the physical habits are a bit less strong, leaving
 some
 >> room for the careful mental work which is so important.
 >>
 >> Martin
 >>
 >>
 >> ---
 >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
 software.
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   --

   __
   Anthony Hart  MSc, LLCM,ALCM.
   Musicologist  and  Independent  Researcher
   Highrise Court 'B', Apt 2, Tigne' Street, Sliema, SLM3174, MALTA
   Mob: +356 9944 9552.
   e-mail:  [4]resea...@antoninoreggio.com; web:
   [5]www.monsignor-reggio.com
   NEW  Publications:  EDIZIONE  ANTONINO  REGGIO
   -  [6]www.edizionear.com
   for information and special offer

   --

References

   1. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk
   2. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   4. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com
   5. http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/
   6. http://www.edizionear.com/

[LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.

[WALSH STUART]

Just a few thoughts:

I strongly agree with the "go carefully" approach.  Playing the lute 
is (or should be) physically easy.  Think how little effort you 
actually need to hold down a string, or to pluck a string. It's much 
less than you might think.


I'm a bit sceptical about "exercises" in general - it seems to imply 
the approach that says you have to play the scales and arpeggios 
before you can play the Mozart.  I think also of the "pumping nylon" 
nonsense which some guitarists indulge in.


When you try to play the music of our lutenist predecessors of 500 
years ago, you quickly realize that there are problems which need to 
be solved which are not already solved by the fact you can play scales 
in C# minor at ninety miles an hour.  So it's important to concentrate 
on the real problems, rather than getting distracted.



Very interesting Martin. If playing the lute should be physically easy 
then two things come to mind: volume and speed.


If the player uses little effort to pluck the string ( I mean the player 
really is making an effort, giving the matter full attention) then 
surely that isn't going to be very loud? Very possibly the contexts in 
which the lute was actually played didn't require great volume.


(I'm still utterly baffled by players of the tiny Baroque mandolin who 
say that they use ordinary lute technique on that instrument. If they 
mean by ordinary lute technique, with very little effort to pluck the 
strings, the sound is barely audible!)


What about effortless speed? Here  I am baffled too. Lots and lots of 
lute music needs flurries of notes. Four flags and more and somehow fast 
and light. (Later lute music can have lots of left hand alone 
articulation.) I think that amateurs, then and now, can learn and play 
quite difficult pieces but there are definite limitations on speed.



Stuart





I have also often found I play better after a break.  Presumably this 
is because the physical habits are a bit less strong, leaving some 
room for the careful mental work which is so important.


Martin


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[LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.

[Christopher Wilke]

   It's a balance. We need the technique and the understanding and the
   creativity and none of those need be mutually exclusive. Here is the
   difference between training and playing: training will help the playing
   ability, but playing won't train the ability - at least not fully.

   There's a reason all atheletes do strength training. It's not because
   in the course of a game they're ever going to have to stop playing and
   display their bench pressing prowess; it's because working with weights
   develops the muscles and stamina they need to play the game. If one's
   aspriration is to become a distinguished athlete, it's not going to
   magically just happen by participating in a lot of matches. Even the
   "naturals" will only get better at the game through training off the
   field. We are athletes of the fingers.
   Likewise, you may never even play a piece in F# major on the lute, but
   practicing scales and exercises and improvising in that key - and every
   key, as well as "atonal," purely mechanical drills outside a scale
   structure - will lead to greater control over hand motions you never
   knew you wanted. Remember the old Karate Kid movie - "wax on, wax off"?
   That's a reductionist, trite Hollywood summary of technical work, but
   it's not really that outrageous.
   To me, those who claim exercises are unimportant are just like those
   rock/pop musicians who are sure that studying theory will suppress
   their songwriting creativity. I knew one fellow who showed me the chord
   changes to a song he wrote. It was in A minor and he so was excited
   because he used an E major chord in it, even though it had a "wrong"
   note outside the minor scale. Totally mind blowing, dude! A genius in
   his own mind. I just nodded and said it sounded nice.
   The real problem is that in contemporary society, we don't know how to
   engage balance. It seems that if a player devotes years to achieving
   mastery of technique, they tend to pick out pieces that display that
   virtuosity, leading to performances filled with empty, meaningless
   strings of notes. The music gets lost. Unfortunately, those are the
   people who get most of the concert bookings and university positions.
   The result is that technique rather than artisanship becomes the
   primary metric by which great performances are measured.
   So, my advice to anyone wishing to get better is to make time for your
   exercises, but don't forget you're a musician. Also, eat your veggies.
   Chris

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
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[LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.

[Martin Shepherd]

Just a few thoughts:

I strongly agree with the "go carefully" approach.  Playing the lute is 
(or should be) physically easy.  Think how little effort you actually 
need to hold down a string, or to pluck a string.  It's much less than 
you might think.


I'm a bit sceptical about "exercises" in general - it seems to imply the 
approach that says you have to play the scales and arpeggios before you 
can play the Mozart.  I think also of the "pumping nylon" nonsense which 
some guitarists indulge in.


When you try to play the music of our lutenist predecessors of 500 years 
ago, you quickly realize that there are problems which need to be solved 
which are not already solved by the fact you can play scales in C# minor 
at ninety miles an hour.  So it's important to concentrate on the real 
problems, rather than getting distracted.


I have also often found I play better after a break.  Presumably this is 
because the physical habits are a bit less strong, leaving some room for 
the careful mental work which is so important.


Martin


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[LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.

[John Mardinly]

Anthony;
First, remember that there are no muscles in your fingers!. The other, 
is that you need to build up your practice regimen gradually. It is just as if 
you were a couch potato for 6 months, and tried to do a marathon with one 
week’s training. If your hand is protesting, listen to it! If your hand feels 
like it is beaten up, it probably IS beaten up. You can permanently damage your 
hand if you just keep on beating up your hand. This sort on injury is actually 
too common among competitive string players in conservatories. I personally 
experienced this 42 years ago when I stopped practicing for a semester due to a 
difficult engineering course load, and then tried to get it all back in four 
weeks (for a master class) by practicing 8 hours a day starting the day after 
my last final. I severely injured the tendons and joints in my hand (muscles 
were fine), such that I could not play for several YEARS. The injuries persist 
today, 42 years later. After visits to 25 doctors and many!
  other physical therapists and trainers, the best thing I have found is a long 
hot soak in warm water. At least an hour. I have read that pianist Van Cliburn 
used a similar treatment. For a string player, one should wear a thin (3mil) 
nitrile glove so that the callouses do not get dissolved.

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
Classical Guitarist/Lutenist


> On Oct 1, 2017, at 1:21 PM, Anthony Hart  wrote:
> 
>   Dear collective wisdom,
> 
>   I have been away from playing for many months and my left hand is
>   protesting! Does anyone have any suggestions for physical exercises to
>   relieve tension and relax muscles prior to practice? I need to do some
>   serious practice over the next few months.
> 
>   Many thanks
> 
>   Anthony
> 
>   --
> 
>   __
>   Anthony Hart  MSc, LLCM,ALCM.
>   Musicologist  and  Independent  Researcher
>   Highrise Court 'B', Apt 2, Tigne' Street, Sliema, SLM3174, MALTA
>   Mob: +356 9944 9552.
>   e-mail:  [1]resea...@antoninoreggio.com; web:
>   [2]www.monsignor-reggio.com
>   NEW  Publications:  EDIZIONE  ANTONINO  REGGIO
>   -  [3]www.edizionear.com
>   for information and special offer
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com
>   2. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.monsignor-2Dreggio.com_=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=tf-gRQPLCA-98X6xhy8klg1gQ1H_TuStjBKTwh4ESvU=HTD5SKEwj_r8iKmEZOrpZC_ESrvL60nXdCcgBNXc27U=
>  
>   3. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.edizionear.com_=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=tf-gRQPLCA-98X6xhy8klg1gQ1H_TuStjBKTwh4ESvU=8HYTF9yYmGPdd4h_HpHRssPiL62WR3RS-gQUYHuiIh8=
>  
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=tf-gRQPLCA-98X6xhy8klg1gQ1H_TuStjBKTwh4ESvU=_w5ej4cP5WdQUE2SB7TTTJh1xIFwYTlRxucDTmwZxLY=
>  

[LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.

[anotherdamn6c .]

   Origami, massage, juggling, kneading bread/pottery clay, frisbee
   (practice that left hand!), carpentry, learn drums ... in short,
   anything but lute playing.
   What I'm getting at is to strengthen the peripheral (less used but
   invariably supportive) muscles in how your left hand works for lute. In
   other words, luteplaying always uses certain muscles and systems and
   makes those as good as they'll get. If you get other muscles and
   systems developed, they will support the lute-playing muscles, too, and
   often in unexpected ways.
   You also have a unique opportunity to address any bad habits you had
   before your break. I have found breaks to be very beneficial. By
   building up other muscles you strengthen your hand (pun intended) in
   addressing these other issues. By getting back up to speed slowly you
   teach your brain to see and frame issues differently, too.
   It may not be everyone's cup of tea but it has worked wonders for me.
   Sean

   On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Anthony Hart
   <[1]anthony.hart1...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear collective wisdom,
I have been away from playing for many months and my left hand is
protesting! Does anyone have any suggestions for physical
 exercises to
relieve tension and relax muscles prior to practice? I need to do
 some
serious practice over the next few months.
Many thanks
Anthony
--

 __
Anthony Hart   MSc, LLCM,ALCM.
Musicologist   and   Independent   Researcher
Highrise Court 'B', Apt 2, Tigne' Street, Sliema, SLM3174, MALTA
Mob: [2]+356 9944 9552.
e-mail:   [1][3]resea...@antoninoreggio.com; web:
[2][4]www.monsignor-reggio.com
NEW   Publications:   EDIZIONE   ANTONINO   REGGIO
-   [3][5]www.edizionear.com
for information and special offer
--
 References
1. mailto:[6]resea...@antoninoreggio.com
2. [7]http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/
3. [8]http://www.edizionear.com/
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:anthony.hart1...@gmail.com
   2. tel:+356 9944 9552
   3. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com
   4. http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/
   5. http://www.edizionear.com/
   6. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com
   7. http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/
   8. http://www.edizionear.com/
   9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.

[David van Ooijen]

   Stretching and relaxing exercises that are aimed at the whole body, not
   just the hand. Yoga will do the trick for many, for me it happens to be
   TaiChi.
   David
   On Sun, 1 Oct 2017 at 22:22, Anthony Hart
   <[1]anthony.hart1...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear collective wisdom,
I have been away from playing for many months and my left hand is
protesting! Does anyone have any suggestions for physical
 exercises to
relieve tension and relax muscles prior to practice? I need to do
 some
serious practice over the next few months.
Many thanks
Anthony
--

 __
Anthony Hart   MSc, LLCM,ALCM.
Musicologist   and   Independent   Researcher
Highrise Court 'B', Apt 2, Tigne' Street, Sliema, SLM3174, MALTA
Mob: +356 9944 9552.
e-mail:   [1][2]resea...@antoninoreggio.com; web:
[2][3]www.monsignor-reggio.com
NEW   Publications:   EDIZIONE   ANTONINO   REGGIO
-   [3][4]www.edizionear.com
for information and special offer
--
 References
1. mailto:[5]resea...@antoninoreggio.com
2. [6]http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/
3. [7]http://www.edizionear.com/
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [9]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [10]www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***

   --

References

   1. mailto:anthony.hart1...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com
   3. http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/
   4. http://www.edizionear.com/
   5. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com
   6. http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/
   7. http://www.edizionear.com/
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   9. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
  10. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/