Re: Life After CentOS

[Russell Sim via luv-main]

Brian May via luv-main  writes:

> Piers Rowan via luv-main  writes:
>
>> I'm sure we have all used a few distros in the past (like many!).
>>
>> So CentOS is going away where to next?
> It really depends on your use case... For servers I prefer a stable that
> I don't have to keep updating. For desktops, more likely to need newer
> stuff. Especially for drivers, etc. which may not always work correctly
> otherwise.
>
> I am currently using Debian + flatpak (where possible) to install apps
> that I really want to keep up to date or not available in Debian.
>
> I have been hearing good things about NixOS. My understanding is there
> is a bit of a learning period before you can be really productive with
> it. Which has been my stumbling point so far.

There is also GNU Guix, which has a more sane configuration language ()
and has better command line UX.

What is probably worth mentioning is that like flatpack, with both
Guix/Nix, you can install them in another OS like Debian, and then
leverage any extra packages, or their configuration management tooling.
Without needing to commit to the ecosystem entirely.  I would say for
any server this is probably the more desirable route, like Russell Coker
mentioned they don't really have any form of security patching policy.
Not to mention they don't tack vendored code, so you could find GoLang
programs in Nix that are using vulnerable libraries.

Regards,
Russell
___
luv-main mailing list -- luv-main@luv.asn.au
To unsubscribe send an email to luv-main-le...@luv.asn.au

Re: Life After CentOS

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

On Monday, 19 December 2022 08:59:36 AEDT Brian May via luv-main wrote:
> It really depends on your use case... For servers I prefer a stable that
> I don't have to keep updating. For desktops, more likely to need newer
> stuff. Especially for drivers, etc. which may not always work correctly
> otherwise.

Having a stable/server version and a quickly updated desktop version is 
standard practice for distributions.  For Debian there's Testing vs Stable 
releases, for Red Hat there's RHEL vs Fedora, for Ubuntu there's the 
enterprise versions released in April on even numbered years and the home user 
versions released between them.

I think the real issues are the amount of software packaged for the 
distribution, the amount of software from 3rd parties in packages for it, and 
the ease of packaging software yourself.  I've found Debian to be very good 
for the range of packaged software and Ubuntu to be quite good and for 3rd 
party packages Ubuntu and RHEL are really good and Debian is quite OK because 
Ubuntu packages can be made to work with a little effort.  For creating your 
own packages I've found Debian to be easier.

> I have been hearing good things about NixOS. My understanding is there
> is a bit of a learning period before you can be really productive with
> it. Which has been my stumbling point so far.

NixOS has less software available and does things in a very different way to 
Debian/RHEL/etc.  NixOS can provide benefits for some specific use cases, but 
those don't map well to general purpose Internet servers IMHO.  Also has NixOS 
got security support in the last few years?

-- 
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Bloghttp://doc.coker.com.au/



___
luv-main mailing list -- luv-main@luv.asn.au
To unsubscribe send an email to luv-main-le...@luv.asn.au

Re: Life After CentOS

[Craig Sanders via luv-main]

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 05:52:46PM +1000, Piers Rowan wrote:
> I'm sure we have all used a few distros in the past (like many!).
>
> So CentOS is going away where to next?

I forgot to mention this in my last post, but Rocky Linux is where a lot of
the Centos devs and users went.

https://rockylinux.org/

"Enterprise Linux, the community way.

 Rocky Linux is an open-source enterprise operating system designed to be
 100% bug-for-bug compatible with Red Hat Enterprise Linux®. It is under
 intensive development by the community."

So, basically the same idea/reason as Centos.



Personally, I've got no use for RHEL and thus never had any use for Centos - a
cheap/free version of something I don't use has no appeal.

I'd stick with - and recommend - Debian.

craig
___
luv-main mailing list -- luv-main@luv.asn.au
To unsubscribe send an email to luv-main-le...@luv.asn.au

Re: Life After CentOS

[Jason White via luv-main]

On 19/12/22 08:59, Brian May via luv-main wrote:

I am currently using Debian + flatpak (where possible) to install apps
that I really want to keep up to date or not available in Debian.


I searched on the Web, but I couldn't find an easy way to separate 
free/open-source apps from non-free ones in using FlatPak repositories, 
notably FlatHub.


The closest I could find was reference to a FlatPak repository under 
development by Fedora, which is subject to their distribution's 
licencing requirements. That could be a reasonable option.


___
luv-main mailing list -- luv-main@luv.asn.au
To unsubscribe send an email to luv-main-le...@luv.asn.au

Re: Life After CentOS

[Jason White via luv-main]

On 18/12/22 18:52, Piers Rowan via luv-main wrote:

So CentOS is going away where to next?

CentOS Stream, perhaps? It's reputed to be only slightly ahead of Red 
Hat Enterprise Linux.


My main concern about CentOS and similar distributions, though, is that 
there reportedly isn't a supported, in-place upgrade procedure between 
major releases.


I'm currently running Fedora on a server, which isn't the optimal 
choice, but neither is it so problematic that reinstalling and 
reconfiguring everything under a different distribution has become a 
priority. I probably will reinstall and rework at some stage.


On the desktop, my recent experiences are with Arch Linux (my machine) 
and Debian testing (family's machine, of which I'm the administrator). 
Both distributions have been excellent.


I've also heard positive comments about Nix OS, which has been covered 
extensively on Linux Unplugged .


I take the view that many distributions can enable you to achieve what 
you want, but some will make it easier than others, depending on what 
your priorities, preferences, and objectives are.


It seems to me that understanding the distribution's values, priorities 
and policies is important; make sure they align with yours (at least, 
for purposes of the specific project).


___
luv-main mailing list -- luv-main@luv.asn.au
To unsubscribe send an email to luv-main-le...@luv.asn.au

Re: Life After CentOS - Is anyone using OpenSuse?

[Piers Rowan via luv-main]

On 18/12/22 17:52, Piers Rowan via luv-main wrote:

I'm sure we have all used a few distros in the past (like many!).

So CentOS is going away where to next?



https://www.opensuse.org/

I haven't used this one since I used Mandrake. It's RPM compatible but 
does anyone have some insights into how it goes as a server?


They pitch: "The makers' choice for sysadmins, developers and desktop 
users."


Pros: It's been around for a long time so it must be doing something right.

Thanks

P


___
luv-main mailing list -- luv-main@luv.asn.au
To unsubscribe send an email to luv-main-le...@luv.asn.au

Re: Life After CentOS

[Karl Billeter via luv-main]

On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 08:59:36AM +1100, Brian May via luv-main wrote:
> Piers Rowan via luv-main  writes:
> 
> > I'm sure we have all used a few distros in the past (like many!).
> >
> > So CentOS is going away where to next?
> >

...

> I have been hearing good things about NixOS. My understanding is there
> is a bit of a learning period before you can be really productive with
> it. Which has been my stumbling point so far.

I've been enjoying NixOS --- just as a new toy.  To some extent you can choose
how "pure" / declarative you want to be, but the more procedural you are, the
less advantage there is and the higher the chance of simple stuff becoming a
bit brittle and unnecessarily complicated.  

K
___
luv-main mailing list -- luv-main@luv.asn.au
To unsubscribe send an email to luv-main-le...@luv.asn.au

Re: Life After CentOS

[Nick Merrett via luv-main]

RHEL is free for dev and "small" prod workloads of up to 16 servers if you
want to stick with more or less centos experience.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/01/centos-is-gone-but-rhel-is-now-free-for-up-to-16-production-servers/

Disclaimer: I work for IBM which is Redhat's parent company

On Mon, 19 Dec 2022, 17:03 Andrew Voumard via luv-main, 
wrote:

> I've found AlmaLinux to be a solid, stable and free upgrade from CentOS
> 7, maintaining RHEL binary compatibility  ... had no issues with it as yet.
>
> https://almalinux.org/
>
> On 19/12/2022 4:21 pm, Craig Sanders via luv-main wrote:
> > On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 09:29:51PM +1100, Les Kitchen wrote:
> >
> >> And if there's some package you really need a recent version of,
> sometimes
> >> you can just do a one-off install.
> > Or look in https://backports.debian.org/ - the latest version (or at
> least, a
> > very recent version) may have already been backported from sid.
> >
> > craig
> >
> > --
> > craig sanders 
> > ___
> > luv-main mailing list -- luv-main@luv.asn.au
> > To unsubscribe send an email to luv-main-le...@luv.asn.au
>
> --
> Thanks
> Andrew
>
> ___
> luv-main mailing list -- luv-main@luv.asn.au
> To unsubscribe send an email to luv-main-le...@luv.asn.au
>
___
luv-main mailing list -- luv-main@luv.asn.au
To unsubscribe send an email to luv-main-le...@luv.asn.au

Re: Life After CentOS

[Andrew Voumard via luv-main]

I've found AlmaLinux to be a solid, stable and free upgrade from CentOS 
7, maintaining RHEL binary compatibility  ... had no issues with it as yet.


https://almalinux.org/

On 19/12/2022 4:21 pm, Craig Sanders via luv-main wrote:

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 09:29:51PM +1100, Les Kitchen wrote:


And if there's some package you really need a recent version of, sometimes
you can just do a one-off install.

Or look in https://backports.debian.org/ - the latest version (or at least, a
very recent version) may have already been backported from sid.

craig

--
craig sanders 
___
luv-main mailing list -- luv-main@luv.asn.au
To unsubscribe send an email to luv-main-le...@luv.asn.au


--
Thanks
Andrew

___
luv-main mailing list -- luv-main@luv.asn.au
To unsubscribe send an email to luv-main-le...@luv.asn.au

Re: Life After CentOS

[Craig Sanders via luv-main]

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 09:29:51PM +1100, Les Kitchen wrote:

> And if there's some package you really need a recent version of, sometimes
> you can just do a one-off install.

Or look in https://backports.debian.org/ - the latest version (or at least, a
very recent version) may have already been backported from sid.

craig

--
craig sanders 
___
luv-main mailing list -- luv-main@luv.asn.au
To unsubscribe send an email to luv-main-le...@luv.asn.au

Re: Life After CentOS

[Brian May via luv-main]

Piers Rowan via luv-main  writes:

> I'm sure we have all used a few distros in the past (like many!).
>
> So CentOS is going away where to next?
>
> My main use case is LAMP servers (I us Ubuntu as my Desktop). Is Debain 
> the best candidate or does stable lag to far behind? Is RHEL the only 
> way forward because of the shallow learning curve? Is Ubuntu having a 
> shot at the title? Oracle perhaps?
>
> https://www.hostinger.com/tutorials/centos-replacement
>
> Anyone made the switch and what was their take on it?

It really depends on your use case... For servers I prefer a stable that
I don't have to keep updating. For desktops, more likely to need newer
stuff. Especially for drivers, etc. which may not always work correctly
otherwise.

I am currently using Debian + flatpak (where possible) to install apps
that I really want to keep up to date or not available in Debian.

I have been hearing good things about NixOS. My understanding is there
is a bit of a learning period before you can be really productive with
it. Which has been my stumbling point so far.
-- 
Brian May 
https://linuxpenguins.xyz/brian/
___
luv-main mailing list -- luv-main@luv.asn.au
To unsubscribe send an email to luv-main-le...@luv.asn.au

Re: Life After CentOS

[Les Kitchen via luv-main]

Hi Piers,

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022, at 18:52, Piers Rowan via luv-main wrote:
> I'm sure we have all used a few distros in the past (like many!).
>
> So CentOS is going away where to next?
>
> My main use case is LAMP servers (I us Ubuntu as my Desktop). Is Debain 
> the best candidate or does stable lag to far behind? Is RHEL the only 
> way forward because of the shallow learning curve? Is Ubuntu having a 
> shot at the title? Oracle perhaps?

Yeah, like many of us, I've tried various distros, but I've
ended up mainly staying with Debian (with a few exceptions).  It
seems to be the best balance overall considering free-software
principles, practicality, etc.

Yes, Debian stable does tend to lag behind the latest
developments (so on most of my machines I run Debian testing
quite smoothly with no problems to speak of), but for most
standard LAMP things you'd be doing that won't make a
significant difference.  And if there's some package you really
need a recent version of, sometimes you can just do a one-off
install.  It really depends on what mix of things you'll be
doing.  And maybe there's some merit in lagging if you want
stability.

> https://www.hostinger.com/tutorials/centos-replacement

That made interesting reading.  My quibble would be that Debian
runs on quite a few more architectures than are listed in this
article.  Notable omissions are ARM and MIPS (which I'm running
on some of my non-x86 machines, though some are Debian
derivatives, like Mobian, Raspian, PureOS).  But probably for
your use case, it'll be only x86_64 that matters.

Also, I don't think it's fair to say that Debian is only for
advanced users.  I've set up Debian on machines for family
members who are just plain folk (that is, non-technical), and
they use it quite happily day to day.  (It's a great way of
keeping old hardware going, like older Macbooks.)  And the
installation process has got much better over the years.

Of course, a laptop / desktop setup is different from a server
setup, but if you're running a server, you need some level of
technical knowledge anyway.

I guess it'll depend a lot on what you want to do, and whether
it's on your own real hardware, or on some virtualized setup.

> Anyone made the switch and what was their take on it?

I can't say anything about switching from Centos, because I've
never used it, and my usage of Red Hat was a long time ago.

Maybe you could set up a trial installation of Debian (and of
the other contenders), to try them out, and see which works best
for you.

— Smiles, Les.
___
luv-main mailing list -- luv-main@luv.asn.au
To unsubscribe send an email to luv-main-le...@luv.asn.au

Life After CentOS

[Piers Rowan via luv-main]

I'm sure we have all used a few distros in the past (like many!).

So CentOS is going away where to next?

My main use case is LAMP servers (I us Ubuntu as my Desktop). Is Debain 
the best candidate or does stable lag to far behind? Is RHEL the only 
way forward because of the shallow learning curve? Is Ubuntu having a 
shot at the title? Oracle perhaps?


https://www.hostinger.com/tutorials/centos-replacement

Anyone made the switch and what was their take on it?

Thanks

P

___
luv-main mailing list -- luv-main@luv.asn.au
To unsubscribe send an email to luv-main-le...@luv.asn.au