subject:"Re\: Solving the Meta\/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X"

Jens Nöckel wrote:
 Another version of the patch is attached, this time hopefully readable by 
 everyone... 

no its octet-stream now. next guess is .txt :)

cant be this code:

+// GUI_DONTSWAPCB_VISIBLE reveals checkbox for switching Ctrl and Meta on Mac: 

   
+#ifdef Q_WS_MACX
+#if QT_VERSION  0x040600   
+   connect(dontswapCB, SIGNAL(toggled(bool)),   
+   this, SIGNAL(changed()));
+#define GUI_DONTSWAPCB_VISIBLE true 
+#endif 
+#endif  
+#ifndef GUI_DONTSWAPCB_VISIBLE  
+   dontswapCB-setVisible(false);   
+#endif


written as:

+   connect(dontswapCB, SIGNAL(toggled(bool)),   
+   this, SIGNAL(changed()));
+#ifdef Q_WS_MACX
+#if QT_VERSION  0x040600   
+   dontswapCB-setVisible(false);   
+#endif  

?
pavel

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X


On Sep 19, 2010, at 12:02 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

 Jens Nöckel wrote:
 Another version of the patch is attached, this time hopefully readable by 
 everyone... 
 
 no its octet-stream now. next guess is .txt :)
 
Or using a different mailer, sigh.

 cant be this code:
 
 +// GUI_DONTSWAPCB_VISIBLE reveals checkbox for switching Ctrl and Meta on 
 Mac:  
   
 +#ifdef Q_WS_MACX
 +#if QT_VERSION  0x040600   
 +   connect(dontswapCB, SIGNAL(toggled(bool)),   
 +   this, SIGNAL(changed()));
 +#define GUI_DONTSWAPCB_VISIBLE true 
 +#endif 
 +#endif  
 +#ifndef GUI_DONTSWAPCB_VISIBLE  
 +   dontswapCB-setVisible(false);   
 +#endif
 
 
 written as:
 
 +   connect(dontswapCB, SIGNAL(toggled(bool)),   
 +   this, SIGNAL(changed()));
 +#ifdef Q_WS_MACX
 +#if QT_VERSION  0x040600   
 +   dontswapCB-setVisible(false);   
 +#endif  
 

No, this would be the wrong way around. If you really want even fewer #ifdef, 
one could say this:

+   connect(dontswapCB, SIGNAL(toggled(bool)),   
+   this, SIGNAL(changed()));
+   dontswapCB-setVisible(false);   
+#ifdef Q_WS_MACX
+#if QT_VERSION  0x040600   
+   dontswapCB-setVisible(true);   
+#endif  

But then the actual code on Mac would execute two calls to setVisible instead 
of one, which just seems slightly more  inelegant. 

Jens

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

Jens Nöckel wrote:
 +   connect(dontswapCB, SIGNAL(toggled(bool)),   
 +   this, SIGNAL(changed()));
 +   dontswapCB-setVisible(false);   
 +#ifdef Q_WS_MACX
 +#if QT_VERSION  0x040600   
 +   dontswapCB-setVisible(true);   
 +#endif  
 
 But then the actual code on Mac would execute two calls to setVisible instead 
 of one, which just seems slightly more  inelegant. 

i see. what you feel better with

bool swapcb=false;

#ifdef Q_WS_MACX
#if QT_VERSION  0x040600
swapcb=true;
#endif

dontswapCB-setVisible(swapcb);

pavel

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X


On Sep 19, 2010, at 8:25 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

 Jens Nöckel wrote:
 +   connect(dontswapCB, SIGNAL(toggled(bool)),   
 +   this, SIGNAL(changed()));
 +   dontswapCB-setVisible(false);   
 +#ifdef Q_WS_MACX
 +#if QT_VERSION  0x040600   
 +   dontswapCB-setVisible(true);   
 +#endif  
 
 But then the actual code on Mac would execute two calls to setVisible 
 instead of one, which just seems slightly more  inelegant. 
 
 i see. what you feel better with
 
 bool swapcb=false;
 
 #ifdef Q_WS_MACX
 #if QT_VERSION  0x040600
 swapcb=true;
 #endif
 
 dontswapCB-setVisible(swapcb);
 
 pavel


That's perfect - please feel free to modify my patch this way. 

Jens

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

Jens Nöckel wrote:
 That's perfect - please feel free to modify my patch this way. 

its in. perhaps you want to add oneliner into misc section of newinlyx20 wiki...
pavel

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

On Sep 19, 2010, at 3:03 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

 Jens Nöckel wrote:
 That's perfect - please feel free to modify my patch this way. 
 
 its in. perhaps you want to add oneliner into misc section of newinlyx20 
 wiki...
 pavel

Great! Could someone send me the WIki password? Then I'll add a line under 
Miscellaneous.

Thanks,
Jens

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

Jens Nöckel wrote:
> Another version of the patch is attached, this time hopefully readable by 
> everyone... 

no its octet-stream now. next guess is .txt :)

cant be this code:

+// GUI_DONTSWAPCB_VISIBLE reveals checkbox for switching Ctrl and Meta on Mac: 

   
+#ifdef Q_WS_MACX
+#if QT_VERSION > 0x040600   
+   connect(dontswapCB, SIGNAL(toggled(bool)),   
+   this, SIGNAL(changed()));
+#define GUI_DONTSWAPCB_VISIBLE true 
+#endif 
+#endif  
+#ifndef GUI_DONTSWAPCB_VISIBLE  
+   dontswapCB->setVisible(false);   
+#endif


written as:

+   connect(dontswapCB, SIGNAL(toggled(bool)),   
+   this, SIGNAL(changed()));
+#ifdef Q_WS_MACX
+#if QT_VERSION > 0x040600   
+   dontswapCB->setVisible(false);   
+#endif  

?
pavel

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X


On Sep 19, 2010, at 12:02 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

> Jens Nöckel wrote:
>> Another version of the patch is attached, this time hopefully readable by 
>> everyone... 
> 
> no its octet-stream now. next guess is .txt :)
> 
Or using a different mailer, sigh.

> cant be this code:
> 
> +// GUI_DONTSWAPCB_VISIBLE reveals checkbox for switching Ctrl and Meta on 
> Mac:  
>   
> +#ifdef Q_WS_MACX
> +#if QT_VERSION > 0x040600   
> +   connect(dontswapCB, SIGNAL(toggled(bool)),   
> +   this, SIGNAL(changed()));
> +#define GUI_DONTSWAPCB_VISIBLE true 
> +#endif 
> +#endif  
> +#ifndef GUI_DONTSWAPCB_VISIBLE  
> +   dontswapCB->setVisible(false);   
> +#endif
> 
> 
> written as:
> 
> +   connect(dontswapCB, SIGNAL(toggled(bool)),   
> +   this, SIGNAL(changed()));
> +#ifdef Q_WS_MACX
> +#if QT_VERSION > 0x040600   
> +   dontswapCB->setVisible(false);   
> +#endif  
> 

No, this would be the wrong way around. If you really want even fewer #ifdef, 
one could say this:

+   connect(dontswapCB, SIGNAL(toggled(bool)),   
+   this, SIGNAL(changed()));
+   dontswapCB->setVisible(false);   
+#ifdef Q_WS_MACX
+#if QT_VERSION > 0x040600   
+   dontswapCB->setVisible(true);   
+#endif  

But then the actual code on Mac would execute two calls to setVisible instead 
of one, which just seems slightly more  inelegant. 

Jens

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

Jens Nöckel wrote:
> +   connect(dontswapCB, SIGNAL(toggled(bool)),   
> +   this, SIGNAL(changed()));
> +   dontswapCB->setVisible(false);   
> +#ifdef Q_WS_MACX
> +#if QT_VERSION > 0x040600   
> +   dontswapCB->setVisible(true);   
> +#endif  
> 
> But then the actual code on Mac would execute two calls to setVisible instead 
> of one, which just seems slightly more  inelegant. 

i see. what you feel better with

bool swapcb=false;

#ifdef Q_WS_MACX
#if QT_VERSION > 0x040600
swapcb=true;
#endif

dontswapCB->setVisible(swapcb);

pavel

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X


On Sep 19, 2010, at 8:25 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

> Jens Nöckel wrote:
>> +   connect(dontswapCB, SIGNAL(toggled(bool)),   
>> +   this, SIGNAL(changed()));
>> +   dontswapCB->setVisible(false);   
>> +#ifdef Q_WS_MACX
>> +#if QT_VERSION > 0x040600   
>> +   dontswapCB->setVisible(true);   
>> +#endif  
>> 
>> But then the actual code on Mac would execute two calls to setVisible 
>> instead of one, which just seems slightly more  inelegant. 
> 
> i see. what you feel better with
> 
> bool swapcb=false;
> 
> #ifdef Q_WS_MACX
> #if QT_VERSION > 0x040600
> swapcb=true;
> #endif
> 
> dontswapCB->setVisible(swapcb);
> 
> pavel


That's perfect - please feel free to modify my patch this way. 

Jens

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

Jens Nöckel wrote:
> That's perfect - please feel free to modify my patch this way. 

its in. perhaps you want to add oneliner into misc section of newinlyx20 wiki...
pavel

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

On Sep 19, 2010, at 3:03 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

> Jens Nöckel wrote:
>> That's perfect - please feel free to modify my patch this way. 
> 
> its in. perhaps you want to add oneliner into misc section of newinlyx20 
> wiki...
> pavel

Great! Could someone send me the WIki password? Then I'll add a line under 
"Miscellaneous".

Thanks,
Jens

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X


On Sep 17, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

 Stephan Witt wrote:
 So if I put Pavel's suggestion in, would my checkbox patch be acceptable? 
 As I said, I'd be OK without GUI, but I don't really think it will hurt 
 anyone to have it in there, with the default being not to change the key 
 mapping.
 
 I'd have no problem with that.
 
 +1

OK, here is the new patch for the current LyX 2.0 in svn trunk:


modifierKey-2.diff
Description: Binary data


The check box is added in Preferences  Editing  Keyboard/Mouse, but only if 
we're on MacOSX with Qt  4.6.0. The default setting is to leave everything as 
it is now. When the check box is set, the Mac control key will act as LyX Ctrl 
and the Mac Command key will act as LyX Meta (which is the reverse of the 
current default mapping, and is preferred by emacs users). No matter what the 
setting is, the MacOSX-specific commands for Quit, Hide and Preferences 
will be unchanged (i.e., they continue to use the Mac Command key).

Thanks,
Jens

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X


On Sep 18, 2010, at 10:14 AM, Jens Nöckel wrote:

 
 On Sep 17, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:
 
 Stephan Witt wrote:
 So if I put Pavel's suggestion in, would my checkbox patch be acceptable? 
 As I said, I'd be OK without GUI, but I don't really think it will hurt 
 anyone to have it in there, with the default being not to change the key 
 mapping.
 
 I'd have no problem with that.
 
 +1
 
 OK, here is the new patch for the current LyX 2.0 in svn trunk:
 modifierKey-2.diff
 
 The check box is added in Preferences  Editing  Keyboard/Mouse, but only if 
 we're on MacOSX with Qt  4.6.0. The default setting is to leave everything 
 as it is now. When the check box is set, the Mac control key will act as LyX 
 Ctrl and the Mac Command key will act as LyX Meta (which is the reverse of 
 the current default mapping, and is preferred by emacs users). No matter what 
 the setting is, the MacOSX-specific commands for Quit, Hide and 
 Preferences will be unchanged (i.e., they continue to use the Mac Command 
 key).

Another comment I forgot to add (but had mentioned earlier): the change takes 
effect only after restarting LyX (because the keynoard shortcuts in the menu 
bar have to be rebuilt).

Jens

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

2010-09-18 Thread Pavel Sanda

 OK, here is the new patch for the current LyX 2.0 in svn trunk:

please note that its difficult to directly comment on your pacthes, because the
attachment is signed as octet-stream type. one need for examples 
application/text
(maybe only naming the attachment .patch would help, depends on your mailer...)

some comments:

   this, SIGNAL(changed()));
   connect(scrollzoomValueCO, SIGNAL(activated(int)),
   this, SIGNAL(changed()));
 +
 +// GUI_DONTSWAPCB_VISIBLE reveals checkbox for switching Ctrl and Meta on 
 Mac: 
 +#ifdef Q_WS_MACX
 +#if QT_VERSION  0x040600
 + connect(dontswapCB, SIGNAL(toggled(bool)),
 + this, SIGNAL(changed()));

i would be happy if we can get rid of any additional #ifdefs. it needs to be 
tested
but i guess except this part:

 + dontswapCB-setVisible(false);

all other parts of code could be normally written and no GUI_DONTSWAPCB_VISIBLE 
needed.

 + stringDo not swap Meta and Control keys/string

add something like on MacOSX...

  void LyXRC::setDefaults()
  {
 + mac_dontswap_ctrl_meta = false;

concerning the default value - this is the current value lyx uses or are we 
changing defaults?
also put this assignment more down between other rc settings concerning 
keyboard.

other parts looks fine. (dow we have already GPL statement from you?)

pavel

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

Another version of the patch is attached, this time hopefully readable by everyone...There was one additional line in GuiApplication.cpp that I took out - it was commented out anyway and corresponded to the initial test I described inhttp://wiki.lyx.org/Mac/LyXmodifierKeys#sMac.LyXmodifierKeys_5(which is no longer the way I do things). It was put in by Stephan in rev. 34812.

modifierKey-3.patch
Description: Binary data
Below are some more responses:On Sep 18, 2010, at 12:48 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:i would be happy if we can get rid of any additional #ifdefs. it needs to be testedbut i guess except this part:+ dontswapCB-setVisible(false);all other parts of code could be normally written and no GUI_DONTSWAPCB_VISIBLE needed.I took those two #ifdef out.+ stringDo not swap Meta and Control keys/stringadd something like "on MacOSX"...Since this text only shows up on Mac anyway, I just modified the text slightly and added your suggestion in a tooltip instead. void LyXRC::setDefaults() {+ mac_dontswap_ctrl_meta = false;concerning the default value - this is the current value lyx uses or are we changing defaults?also put this assignment more down between other rc settings concerning keyboard.Yes, the default _is_ to swap Apple and Ctrl keys. That's what makes this so annoying to emacs users. And by _not_ swapping these modifier keys we are changing the default. The check box unchecked when the default setting is desired. Basically I'm following the nomenclature as dictated by Qt's convoluted Mac behavior (their Attribute "MacDontSwapCtrlAndMeta" is false by default)... other parts looks fine. (dow we have already GPL statement from you?)Probably not - I'll send it in the next message.Jens

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

On Sep 17, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

> Stephan Witt wrote:
>>> So if I put Pavel's suggestion in, would my checkbox patch be acceptable? 
>>> As I said, I'd be OK without GUI, but I don't really think it will hurt 
>>> anyone to have it in there, with the default being not to change the key 
>>> mapping.
>> 
>> I'd have no problem with that.
> 
> +1

OK, here is the new patch for the current LyX 2.0 in svn trunk:

modifierKey-2.diff
Description: Binary data

The check box is added in Preferences > Editing > Keyboard/Mouse, but only if 
we're on MacOSX with Qt > 4.6.0. The default setting is to leave everything as 
it is now. When the check box is set, the Mac control key will act as LyX Ctrl 
and the Mac Command key will act as LyX Meta (which is the reverse of the 
current default mapping, and is preferred by emacs users). No matter what the 
setting is, the MacOSX-specific commands for "Quit", "Hide" and "Preferences" 
will be unchanged (i.e., they continue to use the Mac Command key).

Thanks,
Jens

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X


On Sep 18, 2010, at 10:14 AM, Jens Nöckel wrote:

> 
> On Sep 17, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:
> 
>> Stephan Witt wrote:
 So if I put Pavel's suggestion in, would my checkbox patch be acceptable? 
 As I said, I'd be OK without GUI, but I don't really think it will hurt 
 anyone to have it in there, with the default being not to change the key 
 mapping.
>>> 
>>> I'd have no problem with that.
>> 
>> +1
> 
> OK, here is the new patch for the current LyX 2.0 in svn trunk:
> 
> 
> The check box is added in Preferences > Editing > Keyboard/Mouse, but only if 
> we're on MacOSX with Qt > 4.6.0. The default setting is to leave everything 
> as it is now. When the check box is set, the Mac control key will act as LyX 
> Ctrl and the Mac Command key will act as LyX Meta (which is the reverse of 
> the current default mapping, and is preferred by emacs users). No matter what 
> the setting is, the MacOSX-specific commands for "Quit", "Hide" and 
> "Preferences" will be unchanged (i.e., they continue to use the Mac Command 
> key).

Another comment I forgot to add (but had mentioned earlier): the change takes 
effect only after restarting LyX (because the keynoard shortcuts in the menu 
bar have to be rebuilt).

Jens

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

2010-09-18 Thread Pavel Sanda

> OK, here is the new patch for the current LyX 2.0 in svn trunk:

please note that its difficult to directly comment on your pacthes, because the
attachment is signed as octet-stream type. one need for examples 
application/text
(maybe only naming the attachment .patch would help, depends on your mailer...)

some comments:

>   this, SIGNAL(changed()));
>   connect(scrollzoomValueCO, SIGNAL(activated(int)),
>   this, SIGNAL(changed()));
> +
> +// GUI_DONTSWAPCB_VISIBLE reveals checkbox for switching Ctrl and Meta on 
> Mac: 
> +#ifdef Q_WS_MACX
> +#if QT_VERSION > 0x040600
> + connect(dontswapCB, SIGNAL(toggled(bool)),
> + this, SIGNAL(changed()));

i would be happy if we can get rid of any additional #ifdefs. it needs to be 
tested
but i guess except this part:

> + dontswapCB->setVisible(false);

all other parts of code could be normally written and no GUI_DONTSWAPCB_VISIBLE 
needed.

> + Do not swap Meta and Control keys

add something like "on MacOSX"...

>  void LyXRC::setDefaults()
>  {
> + mac_dontswap_ctrl_meta = false;

concerning the default value - this is the current value lyx uses or are we 
changing defaults?
also put this assignment more down between other rc settings concerning 
keyboard.

other parts looks fine. (dow we have already GPL statement from you?)

pavel

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

Another version of the patch is attached, this time hopefully readable by everyone... There was one additional line in GuiApplication.cpp that I took out - it was commented out anyway and corresponded to the initial test I described in http://wiki.lyx.org/Mac/LyXmodifierKeys#sMac.LyXmodifierKeys_5 (which is no longer the way I do things). It was put in by Stephan in rev. 34812.

modifierKey-3.patch
Description: Binary data
Below are some more responses:On Sep 18, 2010, at 12:48 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:i would be happy if we can get rid of any additional #ifdefs. it needs to be testedbut i guess except this part:+ dontswapCB->setVisible(false);all other parts of code could be normally written and no GUI_DONTSWAPCB_VISIBLE needed.I took those two #ifdef out.+ Do not swap Meta and Control keysadd something like "on MacOSX"...Since this text only shows up on Mac anyway, I just modified the text slightly and added your suggestion in a tooltip instead. void LyXRC::setDefaults() {+ mac_dontswap_ctrl_meta = false;concerning the default value - this is the current value lyx uses or are we changing defaults?also put this assignment more down between other rc settings concerning keyboard.Yes, the default _is_ to swap Apple and Ctrl keys. That's what makes this so annoying to emacs users. And by _not_ swapping these modifier keys we are changing the default. The check box unchecked when the default setting is desired. Basically I'm following the nomenclature as dictated by Qt's convoluted Mac behavior (their Attribute "MacDontSwapCtrlAndMeta" is false by default)... other parts looks fine. (dow we have already GPL statement from you?)Probably not - I'll send it in the next message.Jens

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

Am 17.09.2010 um 07:57 schrieb Jens Nöckel:

 
 On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:30 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:
 
 Am 17.09.2010 um 06:31 schrieb Jens Nöckel:
 
 
 On Jun 5, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Jens Nöckel wrote:
 
 
 On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
 
 Le 05/06/2010 18:45, Jens Nöckel a écrit :
 So my question to the LyX dev team would be: could you add a preference 
 item that lets the user set some flag, so that the call
 setAttribute(Qt::AA_MacDontSwapCtrlAndMeta);
 can be made dependent on that flag? Maybe the simplest place to put this 
 in would be not in the Preferences, but in the Mac-only part of the LyX 
 menu. But on the other hand, that wouldn't look very consistent - so the 
 Preferences, under Keyboard/Mouse would perhaps be the most logical 
 location where to add such a flag. Any ideas on that would be great - 
 I'm sure it should be possible to add a little extra button somewhere.
 
 This should be done in a way that does not break with qt  4.6.
 
 JMarc
 
 I've added a new boolean variable called lyxrc.mac_dontswap_ctrl_meta and 
 successfully connected it to a checkbox in the Keyboard Preferences. The 
 default value is false (meaning the current standard behavior - this 
 follows the nomenclature of Qt::MacDontSwapCtrlAndMeta). Then I added the 
 line
 

 setAttribute(Qt::AA_MacDontSwapCtrlAndMeta,lyxrc.mac_dontswap_ctrl_meta);
 
 in  GuiApplication::execBatchCommands()
 
 right after
 
 #ifdef Q_WS_MACX
 
 Everything is working great. I can set the preference and it gets applied 
 when the application is re-launched (maybe one could apply it immediately, 
 but I wasn't sure how I can then make sure that the menu shortcuts are 
 updated to display the correct modifier keys). If anyone sees something 
 wrong with this approach, please let me know.
 
 To avoid problems with earlier Qt versions, I will (but haven't yet) 
 enclose all my code in: 
 
 #if QT_VERSION  0x040600
 ...
 #endif
 
 and if it isn't already there, I'll also put in 
 #ifdef Q_WS_MACX
 ...
 #endif
 
 All my testing was done with the official lyx-1.6.1 source release, so my 
 next hurdle will be to get an SVN version to build. I haven't tried that 
 for several years, so I may have some  questions tomorrow... if all else 
 fails, I could perhaps just send the diffs to the official release.
 
 Jens
 
 
 
 Hi again,
 it's been a while, but now I have a patch for lyx-devel/trunk that 
 implements the customizable switching of Control and Modifier keys on Mac 
 OS X for LyX 2.0 with Qt 4.6.
 
 Hi Jens,
 
 I'm not the nestor here but I'd like to welcome you.
 
 Although I still have (at least) one open problem, maybe someone here wants 
 to try it out (I tested it and it works with the svn checkout):
 
 modifierKey.diff.zip
 
 As a brief explanation: By setting a preference, you decide whether Ctrl 
 and Meta are swapped next time LyX starts up (as is currently hard-coded in 
 LyX/Mac), or not (as many emacs users prefer).
 
 (Sorry, I should have raised my hand earlier.)
 
 I'm not a emacs user. So I wouldn't use that feature. In fact, I tried it 
 and decided I don't like it. 
 I don't know any application where you can swap Ctrl and Meta. Neither on 
 MacOSX nor on Windows or Linux.
 The option to do so with Qt4 makes me think that this shouldn't be done at 
 application level. 
 It should be a global Qt preference. That's my personal opinion. But of 
 course it's a matter of taste...
 Is there any other application using that feature (except emacs I guess)?
 
 My main question is still the following: 
 There is now a new checkbox in frontend/qt/ui/PrefInput.ui which determines 
 the role of Control and Apple keys, but this new UI element will appear for 
 all versions of Qt and all platforms, even though it has an effect only 
 with Qt = 4.6 (in the other files, my changes are only applied when the 
 right OS and version is detected). In order to make this checkbox disappear 
 when it's not needed, what is the best approach? Is there a Qt or LyX 
 directive for conditional UI elements that I could use in PrefInput.ui 
 (similar to compiler directives as in my previous post)? My guess is that 
 the answer is no. 
 
 I don't know, but I would look for a function to hide the UI element 
 conditionally.
 
 Perhaps it is enough to have that preference without UI at first, document 
 it and ask users later about the 
 acceptance and how urgent the UI is needed.
 
 An alternative would be to patch PrefInput.ui at the configure stage when 
 MacOSX is detected.
 
 This is not that nice. You have to move to something like PrefInput.ui.in 
 for SVN check-in and remove the real PrefInput.ui from VCS.
 Next you have to care for at least 3 build systems - autotools, cmake and 
 scons. I would strongly vote against that move.
 
 But there I would need advice from someone who knows the LyX build system.
 
 
 Two formal points:
 * You sent a patch of 4k size as zip file - so you make it impossible to 
 view it inline. 
 I

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X


On Sep 16, 2010, at 11:24 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:

 Am 17.09.2010 um 07:57 schrieb Jens Nöckel:
 
 
 On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:30 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:
 
 Am 17.09.2010 um 06:31 schrieb Jens Nöckel:
 
 
 On Jun 5, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Jens Nöckel wrote:
 
 
 On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
 
 Le 05/06/2010 18:45, Jens Nöckel a écrit :
 So my question to the LyX dev team would be: could you add a preference 
 item that lets the user set some flag, so that the call
 setAttribute(Qt::AA_MacDontSwapCtrlAndMeta);
 can be made dependent on that flag? Maybe the simplest place to put 
 this in would be not in the Preferences, but in the Mac-only part of 
 the LyX menu. But on the other hand, that wouldn't look very consistent 
 - so the Preferences, under Keyboard/Mouse would perhaps be the most 
 logical location where to add such a flag. Any ideas on that would be 
 great - I'm sure it should be possible to add a little extra button 
 somewhere.
 
 This should be done in a way that does not break with qt  4.6.
 
 JMarc
 
 I've added a new boolean variable called lyxrc.mac_dontswap_ctrl_meta and 
 successfully connected it to a checkbox in the Keyboard Preferences. The 
 default value is false (meaning the current standard behavior - this 
 follows the nomenclature of Qt::MacDontSwapCtrlAndMeta). Then I added the 
 line
 
   
 setAttribute(Qt::AA_MacDontSwapCtrlAndMeta,lyxrc.mac_dontswap_ctrl_meta);
 
 in  GuiApplication::execBatchCommands()
 
 right after
 
 #ifdef Q_WS_MACX
 
 Everything is working great. I can set the preference and it gets applied 
 when the application is re-launched (maybe one could apply it 
 immediately, but I wasn't sure how I can then make sure that the menu 
 shortcuts are updated to display the correct modifier keys). If anyone 
 sees something wrong with this approach, please let me know.
 
 To avoid problems with earlier Qt versions, I will (but haven't yet) 
 enclose all my code in: 
 
 #if QT_VERSION  0x040600
 ...
 #endif
 
 and if it isn't already there, I'll also put in 
 #ifdef Q_WS_MACX
 ...
 #endif
 
 All my testing was done with the official lyx-1.6.1 source release, so my 
 next hurdle will be to get an SVN version to build. I haven't tried that 
 for several years, so I may have some  questions tomorrow... if all else 
 fails, I could perhaps just send the diffs to the official release.
 
 Jens
 
 
 
 Hi again,
 it's been a while, but now I have a patch for lyx-devel/trunk that 
 implements the customizable switching of Control and Modifier keys on Mac 
 OS X for LyX 2.0 with Qt 4.6.
 
 Hi Jens,
 
 I'm not the nestor here but I'd like to welcome you.
 
 Although I still have (at least) one open problem, maybe someone here 
 wants to try it out (I tested it and it works with the svn checkout):
 
 modifierKey.diff.zip
 
 As a brief explanation: By setting a preference, you decide whether Ctrl 
 and Meta are swapped next time LyX starts up (as is currently hard-coded 
 in LyX/Mac), or not (as many emacs users prefer).
 
 (Sorry, I should have raised my hand earlier.)
 
 I'm not a emacs user. So I wouldn't use that feature. In fact, I tried it 
 and decided I don't like it. 
 I don't know any application where you can swap Ctrl and Meta. Neither on 
 MacOSX nor on Windows or Linux.
 The option to do so with Qt4 makes me think that this shouldn't be done at 
 application level. 
 It should be a global Qt preference. That's my personal opinion. But of 
 course it's a matter of taste...
 Is there any other application using that feature (except emacs I guess)?
 
 My main question is still the following: 
 There is now a new checkbox in frontend/qt/ui/PrefInput.ui which 
 determines the role of Control and Apple keys, but this new UI element 
 will appear for all versions of Qt and all platforms, even though it has 
 an effect only with Qt = 4.6 (in the other files, my changes are only 
 applied when the right OS and version is detected). In order to make this 
 checkbox disappear when it's not needed, what is the best approach? Is 
 there a Qt or LyX directive for conditional UI elements that I could use 
 in PrefInput.ui (similar to compiler directives as in my previous post)? 
 My guess is that the answer is no. 
 
 I don't know, but I would look for a function to hide the UI element 
 conditionally.
 
 Perhaps it is enough to have that preference without UI at first, document 
 it and ask users later about the 
 acceptance and how urgent the UI is needed.
 
 An alternative would be to patch PrefInput.ui at the configure stage when 
 MacOSX is detected.
 
 This is not that nice. You have to move to something like PrefInput.ui.in 
 for SVN check-in and remove the real PrefInput.ui from VCS.
 Next you have to care for at least 3 build systems - autotools, cmake and 
 scons. I would strongly vote against that move.
 
 But there I would need advice from someone who knows the LyX build system.
 
 
 Two formal points:
 * You sent a patch of 4k size as zip file

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

Am 17.09.2010 um 08:49 schrieb Jens Nöckel:

 
 On Sep 16, 2010, at 11:24 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:
 
 Am 17.09.2010 um 07:57 schrieb Jens Nöckel:
 
 
 On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:30 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:
 
 Am 17.09.2010 um 06:31 schrieb Jens Nöckel:
 
 
 On Jun 5, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Jens Nöckel wrote:
 
 Hi again,
 it's been a while, but now I have a patch for lyx-devel/trunk that 
 implements the customizable switching of Control and Modifier keys on Mac 
 OS X for LyX 2.0 with Qt 4.6.
 
 Although I still have (at least) one open problem, maybe someone here 
 wants to try it out (I tested it and it works with the svn checkout):
 
 modifierKey.diff.zip
 
 As a brief explanation: By setting a preference, you decide whether Ctrl 
 and Meta are swapped next time LyX starts up (as is currently hard-coded 
 in LyX/Mac), or not (as many emacs users prefer).
 
 (Sorry, I should have raised my hand earlier.)
 
 I'm not a emacs user. So I wouldn't use that feature. In fact, I tried it 
 and decided I don't like it. 
 I don't know any application where you can swap Ctrl and Meta. Neither on 
 MacOSX nor on Windows or Linux.
 The option to do so with Qt4 makes me think that this shouldn't be done at 
 application level. 
 It should be a global Qt preference. That's my personal opinion. But of 
 course it's a matter of taste...
 Is there any other application using that feature (except emacs I guess)?
 
 My main question is still the following: 
 There is now a new checkbox in frontend/qt/ui/PrefInput.ui which 
 determines the role of Control and Apple keys, but this new UI element 
 will appear for all versions of Qt and all platforms, even though it has 
 an effect only with Qt = 4.6 (in the other files, my changes are only 
 applied when the right OS and version is detected). In order to make this 
 checkbox disappear when it's not needed, what is the best approach? Is 
 there a Qt or LyX directive for conditional UI elements that I could use 
 in PrefInput.ui (similar to compiler directives as in my previous post)? 
 My guess is that the answer is no. 
 
 I don't know, but I would look for a function to hide the UI element 
 conditionally.

A better option would be to create it hidden and make it visible only when it 
is sensible.

 Perhaps it is enough to have that preference without UI at first, document 
 it and ask users later about the 
 acceptance and how urgent the UI is needed.
 
 Hi Stephan,
 it would be OK with me to just have a preference without UI, but I wanted 
 to explore the UI because Pavel already gave me a nice starting point for 
 how to do it (earlier in this thread). 
 
 I can understand you very good.
 
 (I cannot see Pavels E-Mails in this thread - but that's not the point, 
 non-relevant).
 
 For completeness, here's the missing passage:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org/msg160178.html

Thanks.

 
 Anyway, about the philosophical reasons for why this is an issue in need of 
 fixing, see the LyX Wiki (the discussion goes back many years, so I can't 
 repeat it all here): http://wiki.lyx.org/Mac/LyXmodifierKeys
 
 I took a quick look. And had the idea to make the default for the new RC 
 variable dynamic. It can depend on the keyboard binding.
 When mac.bind is used make it false, for emacs.bind make it true.
 
 
 In principle that sounds interesting because mac.bind would be really weird 
 with the switched modifiers. But what if a user has a custom bind file (e.g., 
 I have a custom xemacs.bind)? The naming of bind files is arbitrary and 
 therefore shouldn't be the basis for a dynamic adjustment of the RC variable. 
 But what about extending that idea a little: if the bind file name is not 
 emacs.bind or xemacs.bind, it would most likely be including one or the 
 other, so we could search the file for \bind_file (x)emacs.bind ... 
 
 The more I think about it, the more it seems like a hack though. There should 
 be an explicit declaration of whether the switch is desired, LyX probably 
 shouldn't try to guess what the user wants.

You're right. My proposal was not thought to the end.
But I can imagine to make it three-state: No, Yes, Auto.
When Yes then swap, when No then don't swap, when Auto then check the 
bindings for some emacs like usage.
But it remains guessing... 

When reading the wiki I got the impression the common emacs user wants to 
swap the modifiers.

 
 Regarding a global Qt option: can that work if the libs are included as a 
 private framework?
 
 I don't know if global Qt options exist and how they work if any. But, I'd 
 guess the storage of that would be some plist file in your home dir.
 In that sense with global I meant global for the user - not the machine.
 
 In the standalone LyX, there is no system-wide Qt that is being used, so 
 any Qt setting would have to be done at the application level, right?
 
 I have to check Qt4 at first to answer that.
 
 In general that's a question for packaging of LyX. I think LyX should work 
 with Qt4

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

2010-09-17 Thread Jean-Marc LASGOUTTES

Stephan Witt st.w...@gmx.net writes:
 You're right. My proposal was not thought to the end. But I can
 imagine to make it three-state: No, Yes, Auto. When Yes then swap,
 when No then don't swap, when Auto then check the bindings for
 some emacs like usage. But it remains guessing...

The reasonable solution would be to allow something like
  \swap_ctrl_and_option_by_default_on_mac true
(with a shorter name :) in bind files.

JMarc

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

Stephan Witt wrote:

... its little bit hard to follow the thread when people dont kill the unused 
top lines

  There is now a new checkbox in frontend/qt/ui/PrefInput.ui which determines 
  the role of Control and Apple keys, but this new UI element will appear for 
  all versions of Qt and all platforms, even though it has an effect only 
  with Qt = 4.6 (in the other files, my changes are only applied when the 
  right OS and version is detected). In order to make this checkbox disappear 
  when it's not needed, what is the best approach? Is there a Qt or LyX 
  directive for conditional UI elements that I could use in PrefInput.ui 
  (similar to compiler directives as in my previous post)? My guess is that 
  the answer is no. 
 
 I don't know, but I would look for a function to hide the UI element 
 conditionally.

if you mean hide for other archs on solution would be to have normal rc 
variable and in gui code put something like
#ifndef MACOSX
chanegBindingCB.setVisible(false);
#endif

pavel

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X


On Sep 17, 2010, at 3:53 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

 Stephan Witt wrote:
 
 ... its little bit hard to follow the thread when people dont kill the unused 
 top lines
 
 There is now a new checkbox in frontend/qt/ui/PrefInput.ui which determines 
 the role of Control and Apple keys, but this new UI element will appear for 
 all versions of Qt and all platforms, even though it has an effect only 
 with Qt = 4.6 (in the other files, my changes are only applied when the 
 right OS and version is detected). In order to make this checkbox disappear 
 when it's not needed, what is the best approach? Is there a Qt or LyX 
 directive for conditional UI elements that I could use in PrefInput.ui 
 (similar to compiler directives as in my previous post)? My guess is that 
 the answer is no. 
 
 I don't know, but I would look for a function to hide the UI element 
 conditionally.
 
 if you mean hide for other archs on solution would be to have normal rc 
 variable and in gui code put something like
 #ifndef MACOSX
 chanegBindingCB.setVisible(false);
 #endif

That's exactly what I was looking for! 
And regarding Stefan's observation that the prescription on the Wiki for a 
plist item for this Qt attribute doesn't work: yes, without patching Qt I can 
currently only see application-specific mechanisms for setting this dontSwap 
attribute. 
So if I put Pavel's suggestion in, would my checkbox patch be acceptable? As I 
said, I'd be OK without GUI, but I don't really think it will hurt anyone to 
have it in there, with the default being not to change the key mapping.

Jens

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

Am 17.09.2010 um 21:57 schrieb Jens Nöckel:

 
 On Sep 17, 2010, at 3:53 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote:
 
 Stephan Witt wrote:
 
 ... its little bit hard to follow the thread when people dont kill the 
 unused top lines
 
 I don't know, but I would look for a function to hide the UI element 
 conditionally.
 
 if you mean hide for other archs on solution would be to have normal rc 
 variable and in gui code put something like
 #ifndef MACOSX
 chanegBindingCB.setVisible(false);
 #endif
 
 That's exactly what I was looking for! 

Fine.

 And regarding Stephan's observation that the prescription on the Wiki for a 
 plist item for this Qt attribute doesn't work: yes, without patching Qt I can 
 currently only see application-specific mechanisms for setting this 
 dontSwap attribute. 

I tried a joke but failed, obviously. :-)

 So if I put Pavel's suggestion in, would my checkbox patch be acceptable? As 
 I said, I'd be OK without GUI, but I don't really think it will hurt anyone 
 to have it in there, with the default being not to change the key mapping.

I'd have no problem with that.

Stephan

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

Stephan Witt wrote:
  So if I put Pavel's suggestion in, would my checkbox patch be acceptable? 
  As I said, I'd be OK without GUI, but I don't really think it will hurt 
  anyone to have it in there, with the default being not to change the key 
  mapping.
 
 I'd have no problem with that.

+1

pavel

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

Am 17.09.2010 um 07:57 schrieb Jens Nöckel:

> 
> On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:30 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:
> 
>> Am 17.09.2010 um 06:31 schrieb Jens Nöckel:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jun 5, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Jens Nöckel wrote:
>>> 
 
 On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
 
> Le 05/06/2010 18:45, Jens Nöckel a écrit :
>> So my question to the LyX dev team would be: could you add a preference 
>> item that lets the user set some flag, so that the call
>> setAttribute(Qt::AA_MacDontSwapCtrlAndMeta);
>> can be made dependent on that flag? Maybe the simplest place to put this 
>> in would be not in the Preferences, but in the Mac-only part of the LyX 
>> menu. But on the other hand, that wouldn't look very consistent - so the 
>> Preferences, under "Keyboard/Mouse" would perhaps be the most logical 
>> location where to add such a flag. Any ideas on that would be great - 
>> I'm sure it should be possible to add a little extra button somewhere.
> 
> This should be done in a way that does not break with qt < 4.6.
> 
> JMarc
 
 I've added a new boolean variable called lyxrc.mac_dontswap_ctrl_meta and 
 successfully connected it to a checkbox in the Keyboard Preferences. The 
 default value is false (meaning the current standard behavior - this 
 follows the nomenclature of Qt::MacDontSwapCtrlAndMeta). Then I added the 
 line
 

 setAttribute(Qt::AA_MacDontSwapCtrlAndMeta,lyxrc.mac_dontswap_ctrl_meta);
 
 in  GuiApplication::execBatchCommands()
 
 right after
 
 #ifdef Q_WS_MACX
 
 Everything is working great. I can set the preference and it gets applied 
 when the application is re-launched (maybe one could apply it immediately, 
 but I wasn't sure how I can then make sure that the menu shortcuts are 
 updated to display the correct modifier keys). If anyone sees something 
 wrong with this approach, please let me know.
 
 To avoid problems with earlier Qt versions, I will (but haven't yet) 
 enclose all my code in: 
 
 #if QT_VERSION > 0x040600
 ...
 #endif
 
 and if it isn't already there, I'll also put in 
 #ifdef Q_WS_MACX
 ...
 #endif
 
 All my testing was done with the official lyx-1.6.1 source release, so my 
 next hurdle will be to get an SVN version to build. I haven't tried that 
 for several years, so I may have some  questions tomorrow... if all else 
 fails, I could perhaps just send the diffs to the official release.
 
 Jens
 
 
>>> 
>>> Hi again,
>>> it's been a while, but now I have a patch for lyx-devel/trunk that 
>>> implements the customizable switching of Control and Modifier keys on Mac 
>>> OS X for LyX 2.0 with Qt 4.6.
>> 
>> Hi Jens,
>> 
>> I'm not the nestor here but I'd like to welcome you.
>> 
>>> Although I still have (at least) one open problem, maybe someone here wants 
>>> to try it out (I tested it and it works with the svn checkout):
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> As a brief explanation: By setting a preference, you decide whether Ctrl 
>>> and Meta are swapped next time LyX starts up (as is currently hard-coded in 
>>> LyX/Mac), or not (as many emacs users prefer).
>> 
>> (Sorry, I should have raised my hand earlier.)
>> 
>> I'm not a emacs user. So I wouldn't use that feature. In fact, I tried it 
>> and decided I don't like it. 
>> I don't know any application where you can swap Ctrl and Meta. Neither on 
>> MacOSX nor on Windows or Linux.
>> The option to do so with Qt4 makes me think that this shouldn't be done at 
>> application level. 
>> It should be a global Qt preference. That's my personal opinion. But of 
>> course it's a matter of taste...
>> Is there any other application using that feature (except emacs I guess)?
>> 
>>> My main question is still the following: 
>>> There is now a new checkbox in frontend/qt/ui/PrefInput.ui which determines 
>>> the role of Control and Apple keys, but this new UI element will appear for 
>>> all versions of Qt and all platforms, even though it has an effect only 
>>> with Qt >= 4.6 (in the other files, my changes are only applied when the 
>>> right OS and version is detected). In order to make this checkbox disappear 
>>> when it's not needed, what is the best approach? Is there a Qt or LyX 
>>> directive for conditional UI elements that I could use in PrefInput.ui 
>>> (similar to compiler directives as in my previous post)? My guess is that 
>>> the answer is no. 
>> 
>> I don't know, but I would look for a function to hide the UI element 
>> conditionally.
>> 
>> Perhaps it is enough to have that preference without UI at first, document 
>> it and ask users later about the 
>> acceptance and how urgent the UI is needed.
>> 
>>> An alternative would be to patch PrefInput.ui at the configure stage when 
>>> MacOSX is detected.
>> 
>> This is not that nice. You have to move to something like

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X


On Sep 16, 2010, at 11:24 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:

> Am 17.09.2010 um 07:57 schrieb Jens Nöckel:
> 
>> 
>> On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:30 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:
>> 
>>> Am 17.09.2010 um 06:31 schrieb Jens Nöckel:
>>> 
 
 On Jun 5, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Jens Nöckel wrote:
 
> 
> On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> 
>> Le 05/06/2010 18:45, Jens Nöckel a écrit :
>>> So my question to the LyX dev team would be: could you add a preference 
>>> item that lets the user set some flag, so that the call
>>> setAttribute(Qt::AA_MacDontSwapCtrlAndMeta);
>>> can be made dependent on that flag? Maybe the simplest place to put 
>>> this in would be not in the Preferences, but in the Mac-only part of 
>>> the LyX menu. But on the other hand, that wouldn't look very consistent 
>>> - so the Preferences, under "Keyboard/Mouse" would perhaps be the most 
>>> logical location where to add such a flag. Any ideas on that would be 
>>> great - I'm sure it should be possible to add a little extra button 
>>> somewhere.
>> 
>> This should be done in a way that does not break with qt < 4.6.
>> 
>> JMarc
> 
> I've added a new boolean variable called lyxrc.mac_dontswap_ctrl_meta and 
> successfully connected it to a checkbox in the Keyboard Preferences. The 
> default value is false (meaning the current standard behavior - this 
> follows the nomenclature of Qt::MacDontSwapCtrlAndMeta). Then I added the 
> line
> 
>   
> setAttribute(Qt::AA_MacDontSwapCtrlAndMeta,lyxrc.mac_dontswap_ctrl_meta);
> 
> in  GuiApplication::execBatchCommands()
> 
> right after
> 
> #ifdef Q_WS_MACX
> 
> Everything is working great. I can set the preference and it gets applied 
> when the application is re-launched (maybe one could apply it 
> immediately, but I wasn't sure how I can then make sure that the menu 
> shortcuts are updated to display the correct modifier keys). If anyone 
> sees something wrong with this approach, please let me know.
> 
> To avoid problems with earlier Qt versions, I will (but haven't yet) 
> enclose all my code in: 
> 
> #if QT_VERSION > 0x040600
> ...
> #endif
> 
> and if it isn't already there, I'll also put in 
> #ifdef Q_WS_MACX
> ...
> #endif
> 
> All my testing was done with the official lyx-1.6.1 source release, so my 
> next hurdle will be to get an SVN version to build. I haven't tried that 
> for several years, so I may have some  questions tomorrow... if all else 
> fails, I could perhaps just send the diffs to the official release.
> 
> Jens
> 
> 
 
 Hi again,
 it's been a while, but now I have a patch for lyx-devel/trunk that 
 implements the customizable switching of Control and Modifier keys on Mac 
 OS X for LyX 2.0 with Qt 4.6.
>>> 
>>> Hi Jens,
>>> 
>>> I'm not the nestor here but I'd like to welcome you.
>>> 
 Although I still have (at least) one open problem, maybe someone here 
 wants to try it out (I tested it and it works with the svn checkout):
 
 
 
 As a brief explanation: By setting a preference, you decide whether Ctrl 
 and Meta are swapped next time LyX starts up (as is currently hard-coded 
 in LyX/Mac), or not (as many emacs users prefer).
>>> 
>>> (Sorry, I should have raised my hand earlier.)
>>> 
>>> I'm not a emacs user. So I wouldn't use that feature. In fact, I tried it 
>>> and decided I don't like it. 
>>> I don't know any application where you can swap Ctrl and Meta. Neither on 
>>> MacOSX nor on Windows or Linux.
>>> The option to do so with Qt4 makes me think that this shouldn't be done at 
>>> application level. 
>>> It should be a global Qt preference. That's my personal opinion. But of 
>>> course it's a matter of taste...
>>> Is there any other application using that feature (except emacs I guess)?
>>> 
 My main question is still the following: 
 There is now a new checkbox in frontend/qt/ui/PrefInput.ui which 
 determines the role of Control and Apple keys, but this new UI element 
 will appear for all versions of Qt and all platforms, even though it has 
 an effect only with Qt >= 4.6 (in the other files, my changes are only 
 applied when the right OS and version is detected). In order to make this 
 checkbox disappear when it's not needed, what is the best approach? Is 
 there a Qt or LyX directive for conditional UI elements that I could use 
 in PrefInput.ui (similar to compiler directives as in my previous post)? 
 My guess is that the answer is no. 
>>> 
>>> I don't know, but I would look for a function to hide the UI element 
>>> conditionally.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps it is enough to have that preference without UI at first, document 
>>> it and ask users later about the 
>>> acceptance and how urgent the UI is needed.
>>>

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

Am 17.09.2010 um 08:49 schrieb Jens Nöckel:

> 
> On Sep 16, 2010, at 11:24 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:
> 
>> Am 17.09.2010 um 07:57 schrieb Jens Nöckel:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:30 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:
>>> 
 Am 17.09.2010 um 06:31 schrieb Jens Nöckel:
 
> 
> On Jun 5, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Jens Nöckel wrote:
> 
> Hi again,
> it's been a while, but now I have a patch for lyx-devel/trunk that 
> implements the customizable switching of Control and Modifier keys on Mac 
> OS X for LyX 2.0 with Qt 4.6.
 
> Although I still have (at least) one open problem, maybe someone here 
> wants to try it out (I tested it and it works with the svn checkout):
> 
> 
> 
> As a brief explanation: By setting a preference, you decide whether Ctrl 
> and Meta are swapped next time LyX starts up (as is currently hard-coded 
> in LyX/Mac), or not (as many emacs users prefer).
 
 (Sorry, I should have raised my hand earlier.)
 
 I'm not a emacs user. So I wouldn't use that feature. In fact, I tried it 
 and decided I don't like it. 
 I don't know any application where you can swap Ctrl and Meta. Neither on 
 MacOSX nor on Windows or Linux.
 The option to do so with Qt4 makes me think that this shouldn't be done at 
 application level. 
 It should be a global Qt preference. That's my personal opinion. But of 
 course it's a matter of taste...
 Is there any other application using that feature (except emacs I guess)?
 
> My main question is still the following: 
> There is now a new checkbox in frontend/qt/ui/PrefInput.ui which 
> determines the role of Control and Apple keys, but this new UI element 
> will appear for all versions of Qt and all platforms, even though it has 
> an effect only with Qt >= 4.6 (in the other files, my changes are only 
> applied when the right OS and version is detected). In order to make this 
> checkbox disappear when it's not needed, what is the best approach? Is 
> there a Qt or LyX directive for conditional UI elements that I could use 
> in PrefInput.ui (similar to compiler directives as in my previous post)? 
> My guess is that the answer is no. 
 
 I don't know, but I would look for a function to hide the UI element 
 conditionally.

A better option would be to create it hidden and make it visible only when it 
is sensible.

 Perhaps it is enough to have that preference without UI at first, document 
 it and ask users later about the 
 acceptance and how urgent the UI is needed.
>>> 
>>> Hi Stephan,
>>> it would be OK with me to just have a preference without UI, but I wanted 
>>> to explore the UI because Pavel already gave me a nice starting point for 
>>> how to do it (earlier in this thread). 
>> 
>> I can understand you very good.
>> 
>> (I cannot see Pavels E-Mails in this thread - but that's not the point, 
>> non-relevant).
>> 
> For completeness, here's the missing passage:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org/msg160178.html

Thanks.

> 
>>> Anyway, about the philosophical reasons for why this is an issue in need of 
>>> fixing, see the LyX Wiki (the discussion goes back many years, so I can't 
>>> repeat it all here): http://wiki.lyx.org/Mac/LyXmodifierKeys
>> 
>> I took a quick look. And had the idea to make the default for the new RC 
>> variable dynamic. It can depend on the keyboard binding.
>> When mac.bind is used make it false, for emacs.bind make it true.
>> 
> 
> In principle that sounds interesting because mac.bind would be really weird 
> with the switched modifiers. But what if a user has a custom bind file (e.g., 
> I have a custom xemacs.bind)? The naming of bind files is arbitrary and 
> therefore shouldn't be the basis for a dynamic adjustment of the RC variable. 
> But what about extending that idea a little: if the bind file name is not 
> emacs.bind or xemacs.bind, it would most likely be including one or the 
> other, so we could search the file for "\bind_file (x)emacs.bind" ... 
> 
> The more I think about it, the more it seems like a hack though. There should 
> be an explicit declaration of whether the switch is desired, LyX probably 
> shouldn't try to guess what the user wants.

You're right. My proposal was not thought to the end.
But I can imagine to make it three-state: No, Yes, Auto.
When "Yes" then swap, when "No" then don't swap, when "Auto" then check the 
bindings for some emacs like usage.
But it remains guessing... 

When reading the wiki I got the impression the "common" emacs user wants to 
swap the modifiers.

> 
>>> Regarding a global Qt option: can that work if the libs are included as a 
>>> private framework?
>> 
>> I don't know if global Qt options exist and how they work if any. But, I'd 
>> guess the storage of that would be some plist file in your home dir.
>> In that sense with global I meant global for the user - not the machine.

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

2010-09-17 Thread Jean-Marc LASGOUTTES

Stephan Witt  writes:
> You're right. My proposal was not thought to the end. But I can
> imagine to make it three-state: No, Yes, Auto. When "Yes" then swap,
> when "No" then don't swap, when "Auto" then check the bindings for
> some emacs like usage. But it remains guessing...

The reasonable solution would be to allow something like
  \swap_ctrl_and_option_by_default_on_mac true
(with a shorter name :) in bind files.

JMarc

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

Stephan Witt wrote:

... its little bit hard to follow the thread when people dont kill the unused 
top lines

> > There is now a new checkbox in frontend/qt/ui/PrefInput.ui which determines 
> > the role of Control and Apple keys, but this new UI element will appear for 
> > all versions of Qt and all platforms, even though it has an effect only 
> > with Qt >= 4.6 (in the other files, my changes are only applied when the 
> > right OS and version is detected). In order to make this checkbox disappear 
> > when it's not needed, what is the best approach? Is there a Qt or LyX 
> > directive for conditional UI elements that I could use in PrefInput.ui 
> > (similar to compiler directives as in my previous post)? My guess is that 
> > the answer is no. 
> 
> I don't know, but I would look for a function to hide the UI element 
> conditionally.

if you mean hide for other archs on solution would be to have normal rc 
variable and in gui code put something like
#ifndef MACOSX
chanegBindingCB.setVisible(false);
#endif

pavel

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

On Sep 17, 2010, at 3:53 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

> Stephan Witt wrote:
> 
> ... its little bit hard to follow the thread when people dont kill the unused 
> top lines
> 
>>> There is now a new checkbox in frontend/qt/ui/PrefInput.ui which determines 
>>> the role of Control and Apple keys, but this new UI element will appear for 
>>> all versions of Qt and all platforms, even though it has an effect only 
>>> with Qt >= 4.6 (in the other files, my changes are only applied when the 
>>> right OS and version is detected). In order to make this checkbox disappear 
>>> when it's not needed, what is the best approach? Is there a Qt or LyX 
>>> directive for conditional UI elements that I could use in PrefInput.ui 
>>> (similar to compiler directives as in my previous post)? My guess is that 
>>> the answer is no. 
>> 
>> I don't know, but I would look for a function to hide the UI element 
>> conditionally.
> 
> if you mean hide for other archs on solution would be to have normal rc 
> variable and in gui code put something like
> #ifndef MACOSX
> chanegBindingCB.setVisible(false);
> #endif

That's exactly what I was looking for! 
And regarding Stefan's observation that the prescription on the Wiki for a 
plist item for this Qt attribute doesn't work: yes, without patching Qt I can 
currently only see application-specific mechanisms for setting this "dontSwap" 
attribute. 
So if I put Pavel's suggestion in, would my checkbox patch be acceptable? As I 
said, I'd be OK without GUI, but I don't really think it will hurt anyone to 
have it in there, with the default being not to change the key mapping.

Jens

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X

Am 17.09.2010 um 21:57 schrieb Jens Nöckel:

> 
> On Sep 17, 2010, at 3:53 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote:
> 
>> Stephan Witt wrote:
>> 
>> ... its little bit hard to follow the thread when people dont kill the 
>> unused top lines
>>> 
>>> I don't know, but I would look for a function to hide the UI element 
>>> conditionally.
>> 
>> if you mean hide for other archs on solution would be to have normal rc 
>> variable and in gui code put something like
>> #ifndef MACOSX
>> chanegBindingCB.setVisible(false);
>> #endif
> 
> That's exactly what I was looking for! 

Fine.

> And regarding Stephan's observation that the prescription on the Wiki for a 
> plist item for this Qt attribute doesn't work: yes, without patching Qt I can 
> currently only see application-specific mechanisms for setting this 
> "dontSwap" attribute. 

I tried a joke but failed, obviously. :-)

> So if I put Pavel's suggestion in, would my checkbox patch be acceptable? As 
> I said, I'd be OK without GUI, but I don't really think it will hurt anyone 
> to have it in there, with the default being not to change the key mapping.

I'd have no problem with that.

Stephan

Re: Solving the Meta/Control key swap problem on Mac OS X