subject:"ANNOUNCE\: LyX version 2.1.0 \(rc1\)"

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-04-03 Thread Guenter Milde

On 2014-04-01, Wolfgang Keller wrote:

 Probably the only thing that's still left from the original LyTeX (must
 have been 1.6.x back then) is the folder structure and the startupt
 script.

Hey, if you have a fairly uncommon setup, dont expect everything to work out
of the box!

...

 So if anything doesn't work, I'll just sent a corresponding rant to the
 list and roll back.

If you would be more polite instead of sending a rant, I would say this
is OK.

...

 This can destroy your LyX settings so that it can become unusable.

 It won't destroy anything that I can't roll back by simply trashing
 the LyX subfolder that's kaputt and by replacing it with the last
 known working version.

 That is *one* of the *many* advantages of installer-free application
 distribution.

 No need for installers, no need for uninstallers, backups are trivial
 and so are rollbacks.

So, why do you use the installer at all?

Günter

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-04-03 Thread Guenter Milde

On 2014-04-01, Wolfgang Keller wrote:

 Probably the only thing that's still left from the original LyTeX (must
 have been 1.6.x back then) is the folder structure and the startupt
 script.

Hey, if you have a fairly uncommon setup, dont expect everything to work out
of the box!

...

 So if anything doesn't work, I'll just sent a corresponding rant to the
 list and roll back.

If you would be more polite instead of sending a rant, I would say this
is OK.

...

 This can destroy your LyX settings so that it can become unusable.

 It won't destroy anything that I can't roll back by simply trashing
 the LyX subfolder that's kaputt and by replacing it with the last
 known working version.

 That is *one* of the *many* advantages of installer-free application
 distribution.

 No need for installers, no need for uninstallers, backups are trivial
 and so are rollbacks.

So, why do you use the installer at all?

Günter

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-04-03 Thread Guenter Milde

On 2014-04-01, Wolfgang Keller wrote:

> Probably the only thing that's still left from the original LyTeX (must
> have been 1.6.x back then) is the folder structure and the startupt
> script.

Hey, if you have a fairly uncommon setup, dont expect everything to work out
of the box!

...

> So if anything doesn't work, I'll just sent a corresponding rant to the
> list and "roll back".

If you would be more polite instead of sending a rant, I would say this
is OK.

...

>> This can destroy your LyX settings so that it can become unusable.

> It won't destroy anything that I can't roll back by simply trashing
> the LyX subfolder that's "kaputt" and by replacing it with the last
> known working version.

> That is *one* of the *many* advantages of installer-free application
> distribution.

> No need for installers, no need for uninstallers, backups are trivial
> and so are "rollbacks".

So, why do you use the installer at all?

Günter

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-04-01 Thread Wolfgang Keller

 Thanks, I was not aware of that LyTeX is still alive.
 Apparently this version writes something to the registry (this can
 also be done by portable versions). However, I wonder that they
 provided a beta version as portable LyTeX

They don't, at least not for me.

I installed the version they had years ago and since then I have
always only overwritten the LyX subfolder with the installers that I
have downloaded from ftp.lyx.org without using the updater included
in LyTeX. And in parallel I have kept the TeXLive subfolder updated with
the TexLive package manager as well. Has worked perfectly across
releases.

Probably the only thing that's still left from the original LyTeX (must
have been 1.6.x back then) is the folder structure and the startupt
script.

  This error message should only occur if you try to install LyX
  2.1rc1 over LyX 2.1rc1. This is checked by the Windows registry.
 
  There can be nothing in the registry, since I don't have
  authorisation to write to the registry on this computer.
 
 You always have the right to write to the registry section
 HKey_Current_User.

On this computer, all transient entries there should get erased upon
startup.

Yes, they are that sadistic.
 
  Which is a restriction that's just as compulsive and imperious as
  those idiotic installers are. Seems the most important concern of
  certain people is to prevent others from being able to do their
  work.
 
 I don't understand. The LyX installer allows you to install LyX also
 if you only have a guest account on a PC.
 However, if your Admin denies to allow you to install things, he has
 a reason. So better blame him.

He doesn't have a reason. I know - way - more about computer security
than him.

(Which is not difficult, all Windows administrators I have met so far
were hopelessly clueless morons.)

It's just a professional sickness. IT administrators compulsively lock
down the computers beyond uselessness (to the point that ever more
often bring your own is the only way to get anything done any more),
software developers/packagers compulsively require running pointless
installers, and in between, like punchbags are caught those people
who have to get the actual productive work done. 

  Hmm, or did you once installed LyX 2.1beta? If so you must
  uninstall LyX 2.1beta first (these were testing releases (for
  LyX-only not the installer nor LyX's dependencies) so that an easy
  upgrade is not possible).
 
  A dumb installer would simply overwrite the previous installation
 
 As aid, this is in case of beta releases no feature. We are only a
 small group of developers. Providing also full support for beta
 versions would cost us a lot time we don't have. 

I am not asking for that. I keep a backup of the last known working LyX
subfolder I have.

So if anything doesn't work, I'll just sent a corresponding rant to the
list and roll back.

 And don't forget we all have a private life and a job - we develop
 LyX in our spare time!

I don't have a private life. Among others, thanks to the obscene
absurdities of modern office work environments where all kinds of
fat tapeworms wag with us dogs.
 
  Could you please be a bit more polite. You apparently found a bug
  but there is no reason to be abusive!
 
  I guess that implementing the check function is an extra effort to
  make, which is totally pointless imho. I see exactly *zero* added
  value from this function (actually a refusal to provide a
  required function). The installer just shouldn't care for whether
  LyX is already installed or not and overwrite everything, basta.
 
 This can destroy your LyX settings so that it can become unusable.

It won't destroy anything that I can't roll back by simply trashing
the LyX subfolder that's kaputt and by replacing it with the last
known working version.

That is *one* of the *many* advantages of installer-free application
distribution.

No need for installers, no need for uninstallers, backups are trivial
and so are rollbacks.

This principle of application distribution has been known and
perfectly working at least since 1984 (Atari TOS, MacOS, a little later
of Acorn RiscOS, I don't know about AmigaOS).

Unlike installers, which have *never* actually worked reliably.

  Just like installers (resp. software requiring those) are anyway.
  User-friendly software has to be packaged as simple zero-install zip
  archives. And the Windows registry is only good as an open barn
  door for viruses, trojans and other malware.
 
 Oha, I now fully understand your Admin that you are not allowed to
 install programs.

No computer for that I have ever had the personal reponsibility (and
over that I had full authority) has ever contracted a single virus or
other malware in 25 years.

The only occasions when a computer that I had to use got a virus were
the usual, well known barn doors, that were wide opened by the choice
of OS, applications and by the configuration that was locked down by
the administrictator, so that I couldn't even

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-04-01 Thread Wolfgang Keller

 Thanks, I was not aware of that LyTeX is still alive.
 Apparently this version writes something to the registry (this can
 also be done by portable versions). However, I wonder that they
 provided a beta version as portable LyTeX

They don't, at least not for me.

I installed the version they had years ago and since then I have
always only overwritten the LyX subfolder with the installers that I
have downloaded from ftp.lyx.org without using the updater included
in LyTeX. And in parallel I have kept the TeXLive subfolder updated with
the TexLive package manager as well. Has worked perfectly across
releases.

Probably the only thing that's still left from the original LyTeX (must
have been 1.6.x back then) is the folder structure and the startupt
script.

  This error message should only occur if you try to install LyX
  2.1rc1 over LyX 2.1rc1. This is checked by the Windows registry.
 
  There can be nothing in the registry, since I don't have
  authorisation to write to the registry on this computer.
 
 You always have the right to write to the registry section
 HKey_Current_User.

On this computer, all transient entries there should get erased upon
startup.

Yes, they are that sadistic.
 
  Which is a restriction that's just as compulsive and imperious as
  those idiotic installers are. Seems the most important concern of
  certain people is to prevent others from being able to do their
  work.
 
 I don't understand. The LyX installer allows you to install LyX also
 if you only have a guest account on a PC.
 However, if your Admin denies to allow you to install things, he has
 a reason. So better blame him.

He doesn't have a reason. I know - way - more about computer security
than him.

(Which is not difficult, all Windows administrators I have met so far
were hopelessly clueless morons.)

It's just a professional sickness. IT administrators compulsively lock
down the computers beyond uselessness (to the point that ever more
often bring your own is the only way to get anything done any more),
software developers/packagers compulsively require running pointless
installers, and in between, like punchbags are caught those people
who have to get the actual productive work done. 

  Hmm, or did you once installed LyX 2.1beta? If so you must
  uninstall LyX 2.1beta first (these were testing releases (for
  LyX-only not the installer nor LyX's dependencies) so that an easy
  upgrade is not possible).
 
  A dumb installer would simply overwrite the previous installation
 
 As aid, this is in case of beta releases no feature. We are only a
 small group of developers. Providing also full support for beta
 versions would cost us a lot time we don't have. 

I am not asking for that. I keep a backup of the last known working LyX
subfolder I have.

So if anything doesn't work, I'll just sent a corresponding rant to the
list and roll back.

 And don't forget we all have a private life and a job - we develop
 LyX in our spare time!

I don't have a private life. Among others, thanks to the obscene
absurdities of modern office work environments where all kinds of
fat tapeworms wag with us dogs.
 
  Could you please be a bit more polite. You apparently found a bug
  but there is no reason to be abusive!
 
  I guess that implementing the check function is an extra effort to
  make, which is totally pointless imho. I see exactly *zero* added
  value from this function (actually a refusal to provide a
  required function). The installer just shouldn't care for whether
  LyX is already installed or not and overwrite everything, basta.
 
 This can destroy your LyX settings so that it can become unusable.

It won't destroy anything that I can't roll back by simply trashing
the LyX subfolder that's kaputt and by replacing it with the last
known working version.

That is *one* of the *many* advantages of installer-free application
distribution.

No need for installers, no need for uninstallers, backups are trivial
and so are rollbacks.

This principle of application distribution has been known and
perfectly working at least since 1984 (Atari TOS, MacOS, a little later
of Acorn RiscOS, I don't know about AmigaOS).

Unlike installers, which have *never* actually worked reliably.

  Just like installers (resp. software requiring those) are anyway.
  User-friendly software has to be packaged as simple zero-install zip
  archives. And the Windows registry is only good as an open barn
  door for viruses, trojans and other malware.
 
 Oha, I now fully understand your Admin that you are not allowed to
 install programs.

No computer for that I have ever had the personal reponsibility (and
over that I had full authority) has ever contracted a single virus or
other malware in 25 years.

The only occasions when a computer that I had to use got a virus were
the usual, well known barn doors, that were wide opened by the choice
of OS, applications and by the configuration that was locked down by
the administrictator, so that I couldn't even

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-04-01 Thread Wolfgang Keller

> Thanks, I was not aware of that LyTeX is still alive.
> Apparently this version writes something to the registry (this can
> also be done by portable versions). However, I wonder that they
> provided a beta version as portable LyTeX

They don't, at least not for me.

I installed the version they had years ago and since then I have
always only overwritten the LyX subfolder with the installers that I
have downloaded from ftp.lyx.org without using the "updater" included
in LyTeX. And in parallel I have kept the TeXLive subfolder updated with
the TexLive package manager as well. Has worked perfectly across
releases.

Probably the only thing that's still left from the original LyTeX (must
have been 1.6.x back then) is the folder structure and the startupt
script.

> >> This error message should only occur if you try to install LyX
> >> 2.1rc1 over LyX 2.1rc1. This is checked by the Windows registry.
> >
> > There can be nothing in the registry, since I don't have
> > authorisation to write to the registry on this computer.
> 
> You always have the right to write to the registry section
> "HKey_Current_User".

On this computer, all "transient" entries there should get erased upon
startup.

Yes, they are that sadistic.
 
> > Which is a restriction that's just as compulsive and imperious as
> > those idiotic installers are. Seems the most important concern of
> > certain people is to prevent others from being able to do their
> > work.
> 
> I don't understand. The LyX installer allows you to install LyX also
> if you only have a guest account on a PC.
> However, if your Admin denies to allow you to install things, he has
> a reason. So better blame him.

He doesn't have a reason. I know - way - more about computer security
than him.

(Which is not difficult, all Windows "administrators" I have met so far
were hopelessly clueless morons.)

It's just a professional sickness. IT "administrators" compulsively lock
down the computers beyond uselessness (to the point that ever more
often "bring your own" is the only way to get anything done any more),
software developers/packagers compulsively require running pointless
"installers", and in between, like punchbags are caught those people
who have to get the actual productive work done. 

> >> Hmm, or did you once installed LyX 2.1beta? If so you must
> >> uninstall LyX 2.1beta first (these were testing releases (for
> >> LyX-only not the installer nor LyX's dependencies) so that an easy
> >> upgrade is not possible).
> >
> > A "dumb" installer would simply overwrite the previous installation
> 
> As aid, this is in case of beta releases no feature. We are only a
> small group of developers. Providing also full support for beta
> versions would cost us a lot time we don't have. 

I am not asking for that. I keep a backup of the last known working LyX
subfolder I have.

So if anything doesn't work, I'll just sent a corresponding rant to the
list and "roll back".

> And don't forget we all have a private life and a job - we develop
> LyX in our spare time!

I don't have a private life. Among others, thanks to the obscene
absurdities of modern office "work" environments where all kinds of
fat tapeworms wag with us dogs.
 
> >> Could you please be a bit more polite. You apparently found a bug
> >> but there is no reason to be abusive!
> >
> > I guess that implementing the "check" function is an extra effort to
> > make, which is totally pointless imho. I see exactly *zero* "added
> > value" from this "function" (actually a refusal to provide a
> > required function). The installer just shouldn't care for whether
> > LyX is already installed or not and overwrite everything, basta.
> 
> This can destroy your LyX settings so that it can become unusable.

It won't destroy anything that I can't roll back by simply trashing
the LyX subfolder that's "kaputt" and by replacing it with the last
known working version.

That is *one* of the *many* advantages of installer-free application
distribution.

No need for installers, no need for uninstallers, backups are trivial
and so are "rollbacks".

This principle of application distribution has been known and
perfectly working at least since 1984 (Atari TOS, MacOS, a little later
of Acorn RiscOS, I don't know about AmigaOS).

Unlike "installers", which have *never* actually worked reliably.

> > Just like "installers" (resp. software requiring those) are anyway.
> > User-friendly software has to be packaged as simple zero-install zip
> > archives. And the Windows "registry" is only good as an open barn
> > door for viruses, trojans and other malware.
> 
> Oha, I now fully understand your Admin that you are not allowed to
> install programs.

No computer for that I have ever had the personal reponsibility (and
over that I had full authority) has ever contracted a single virus or
other "malware" in 25 years.

The only occasions when a computer that I had to use got a virus were
the usual, well known barn doors, that were wide opened by the

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-31 Thread Wolfgang Engelmann



Am 30.03.2014 16:54, schrieb Steve Litt:

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 19:07:35 -0400
Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org wrote:


On 03/29/2014 04:58 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:

On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Wolfgang Keller felip...@gmx.net
wrote:

Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
adjectives to bullshittish.


Then come up with your own installer, or pay someone to do that for
you. LyX is provided by volunteers, and comes with absolutely no
warranty. Unhappy with what you get (for free), then don't use it.
And please don't insult the developers.

Really. What's with people these days? This is the second such
episode we've had this week.

Richard

LOL, must be a full moon.

SteveT

Or the unpleasant change to summer time in Europe?
Wolfgang

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-31 Thread Wolfgang Engelmann



Am 30.03.2014 16:54, schrieb Steve Litt:

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 19:07:35 -0400
Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org wrote:


On 03/29/2014 04:58 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:

On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Wolfgang Keller felip...@gmx.net
wrote:

Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
adjectives to bullshittish.


Then come up with your own installer, or pay someone to do that for
you. LyX is provided by volunteers, and comes with absolutely no
warranty. Unhappy with what you get (for free), then don't use it.
And please don't insult the developers.

Really. What's with people these days? This is the second such
episode we've had this week.

Richard

LOL, must be a full moon.

SteveT

Or the unpleasant change to summer time in Europe?
Wolfgang

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-31 Thread Wolfgang Engelmann



Am 30.03.2014 16:54, schrieb Steve Litt:

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 19:07:35 -0400
Richard Heck  wrote:


On 03/29/2014 04:58 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:

On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Wolfgang Keller 
wrote:

Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
adjectives to "bullshittish".


Then come up with your own installer, or pay someone to do that for
you. LyX is provided by volunteers, and comes with absolutely no
warranty. Unhappy with what you get (for free), then don't use it.
And please don't insult the developers.

Really. What's with people these days? This is the second such
episode we've had this week.

Richard

LOL, must be a full moon.

SteveT

Or the unpleasant change to summer time in Europe?
Wolfgang

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-30 Thread Anders Ekberg


Richard Heck skrev 2014-03-30 00:07:

On 03/29/2014 04:58 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:
On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Wolfgang Keller felip...@gmx.net 
wrote:

Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
adjectives to bullshittish.


Then come up with your own installer, or pay someone to do that for
you. LyX is provided by volunteers, and comes with absolutely no
warranty. Unhappy with what you get (for free), then don't use it. And
please don't insult the developers.


Really. What's with people these days? This is the second such episode 
we've had this week.
Hmm, my kindergarden-aged daughter behaves like that when she hasn't 
slept or eaten properly. Maybe an advice on the wiki to check nutrition 
and sleep status before posting to the list would help ;-)


/Anders

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-30 Thread Steve Litt

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 19:07:35 -0400
Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org wrote:

 On 03/29/2014 04:58 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:
  On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Wolfgang Keller felip...@gmx.net
  wrote:
  Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
  people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
  compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
  adjectives to bullshittish.
 
  Then come up with your own installer, or pay someone to do that for
  you. LyX is provided by volunteers, and comes with absolutely no
  warranty. Unhappy with what you get (for free), then don't use it.
  And please don't insult the developers.
 
 Really. What's with people these days? This is the second such
 episode we've had this week.
 
 Richard

LOL, must be a full moon.

SteveT

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-30 Thread John Coppens

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 20:22:41 +0100
Wolfgang Keller felip...@gmx.net wrote:

 Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
 people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
 compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
 adjectives to bullshittish.

Wow... Almost looks as if you paid for LyX.

John

What an opportunity: was ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-30 Thread Steve Litt

On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:08:24 -0300
John Coppens j...@jcoppens.com wrote:

 On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 20:22:41 +0100
 Wolfgang Keller felip...@gmx.net wrote:
 
  Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
  people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
  compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
  adjectives to bullshittish.
 
 Wow... Almost looks as if you paid for LyX.

Didn't it?

Sounds like he considers LyX a product. Perhaps he should make a
competing product. All he'd have to do is:

* Make a good HTML5/xhtml editor with zen-coding and the like, or a
  semi-wysiwyg HTML5/xhtml editor. It must encourage styles-based
  authoring and in fact make fingerpainting difficult.

* Make an HTML5/xhtml to LaTeX converter, for PDF and print export.

* Make an HTML5/xhtml to ePub converter, for eBooks. By the way, LyX
  still has to do that too :-)

* Make it include features like math, footnotes, endnotes,
  bibliographies, and other outrageously difficult stuff.

* Provide 2 way MSOffice import/export to satisfy those working with
  people stuck in the 20th century.

* Provide tech support for people who call his product
  bullshitish, when they're using versions not created or supported
  by himself.

LyX's bullshitish problems leave a wide open gap in the marketplace
into which he could place his product. What an opportunity!

By the way, I once contemplated making a simplified competing product.
It's not easy.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-30 Thread Anders Ekberg


Richard Heck skrev 2014-03-30 00:07:

On 03/29/2014 04:58 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:
On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Wolfgang Keller felip...@gmx.net 
wrote:

Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
adjectives to bullshittish.


Then come up with your own installer, or pay someone to do that for
you. LyX is provided by volunteers, and comes with absolutely no
warranty. Unhappy with what you get (for free), then don't use it. And
please don't insult the developers.


Really. What's with people these days? This is the second such episode 
we've had this week.
Hmm, my kindergarden-aged daughter behaves like that when she hasn't 
slept or eaten properly. Maybe an advice on the wiki to check nutrition 
and sleep status before posting to the list would help ;-)


/Anders

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-30 Thread Steve Litt

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 19:07:35 -0400
Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org wrote:

 On 03/29/2014 04:58 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:
  On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Wolfgang Keller felip...@gmx.net
  wrote:
  Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
  people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
  compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
  adjectives to bullshittish.
 
  Then come up with your own installer, or pay someone to do that for
  you. LyX is provided by volunteers, and comes with absolutely no
  warranty. Unhappy with what you get (for free), then don't use it.
  And please don't insult the developers.
 
 Really. What's with people these days? This is the second such
 episode we've had this week.
 
 Richard

LOL, must be a full moon.

SteveT

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-30 Thread John Coppens

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 20:22:41 +0100
Wolfgang Keller felip...@gmx.net wrote:

 Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
 people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
 compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
 adjectives to bullshittish.

Wow... Almost looks as if you paid for LyX.

John

What an opportunity: was ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-30 Thread Steve Litt

On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:08:24 -0300
John Coppens j...@jcoppens.com wrote:

 On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 20:22:41 +0100
 Wolfgang Keller felip...@gmx.net wrote:
 
  Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
  people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
  compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
  adjectives to bullshittish.
 
 Wow... Almost looks as if you paid for LyX.

Didn't it?

Sounds like he considers LyX a product. Perhaps he should make a
competing product. All he'd have to do is:

* Make a good HTML5/xhtml editor with zen-coding and the like, or a
  semi-wysiwyg HTML5/xhtml editor. It must encourage styles-based
  authoring and in fact make fingerpainting difficult.

* Make an HTML5/xhtml to LaTeX converter, for PDF and print export.

* Make an HTML5/xhtml to ePub converter, for eBooks. By the way, LyX
  still has to do that too :-)

* Make it include features like math, footnotes, endnotes,
  bibliographies, and other outrageously difficult stuff.

* Provide 2 way MSOffice import/export to satisfy those working with
  people stuck in the 20th century.

* Provide tech support for people who call his product
  bullshitish, when they're using versions not created or supported
  by himself.

LyX's bullshitish problems leave a wide open gap in the marketplace
into which he could place his product. What an opportunity!

By the way, I once contemplated making a simplified competing product.
It's not easy.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-30 Thread Anders Ekberg


Richard Heck skrev 2014-03-30 00:07:

On 03/29/2014 04:58 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:
On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Wolfgang Keller  
wrote:

Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
adjectives to "bullshittish".


Then come up with your own installer, or pay someone to do that for
you. LyX is provided by volunteers, and comes with absolutely no
warranty. Unhappy with what you get (for free), then don't use it. And
please don't insult the developers.


Really. What's with people these days? This is the second such episode 
we've had this week.
Hmm, my kindergarden-aged daughter behaves like that when she hasn't 
slept or eaten properly. Maybe an advice on the wiki to check nutrition 
and sleep status before posting to the list would help ;-)


/Anders

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-30 Thread Steve Litt

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 19:07:35 -0400
Richard Heck  wrote:

> On 03/29/2014 04:58 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:
> > On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Wolfgang Keller 
> > wrote:
> >> Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
> >> people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
> >> compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
> >> adjectives to "bullshittish".
> >>
> > Then come up with your own installer, or pay someone to do that for
> > you. LyX is provided by volunteers, and comes with absolutely no
> > warranty. Unhappy with what you get (for free), then don't use it.
> > And please don't insult the developers.
> 
> Really. What's with people these days? This is the second such
> episode we've had this week.
> 
> Richard

LOL, must be a full moon.

SteveT

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-30 Thread John Coppens

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 20:22:41 +0100
Wolfgang Keller  wrote:

> Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
> people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
> compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
> adjectives to "bullshittish".

Wow... Almost looks as if you paid for LyX.

John

What an opportunity: was ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-30 Thread Steve Litt

On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:08:24 -0300
John Coppens  wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 20:22:41 +0100
> Wolfgang Keller  wrote:
> 
> > Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
> > people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
> > compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
> > adjectives to "bullshittish".
> 
> Wow... Almost looks as if you paid for LyX.

Didn't it?

Sounds like he considers LyX a "product". Perhaps he should make a
competing "product". All he'd have to do is:

* Make a good HTML5/xhtml editor with zen-coding and the like, or a
  semi-wysiwyg HTML5/xhtml editor. It must encourage styles-based
  authoring and in fact make fingerpainting difficult.

* Make an HTML5/xhtml to LaTeX converter, for PDF and print export.

* Make an HTML5/xhtml to ePub converter, for eBooks. By the way, LyX
  still has to do that too :-)

* Make it include features like math, footnotes, endnotes,
  bibliographies, and other outrageously difficult stuff.

* Provide 2 way MSOffice import/export to satisfy those working with
  people stuck in the 20th century.

* Provide tech support for people who call his "product"
  "bullshitish", when they're using versions not created or supported
  by himself.

LyX's "bullshitish" problems leave a wide open gap in the "marketplace"
into which he could place his "product". What an opportunity!

By the way, I once contemplated making a simplified competing product.
It's not easy.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-29 Thread Wolfgang Keller

  LyX is already installed.
  Please uninstall LyX first.
 
  WTF?!
 
  First, this error message is *wrong*, since I don't have LyX
  installed. I use it in portable mode.
 
 Can you give me more information please. What LyX version are you
 using?

LyX Version 2.1.0beta2
(Sonntag, 10. November 2013)

 From where did you get the portable LyX?

It was called LyTeX, and I have been using it since well before 2.0,
the download location has moved since and the software has been updated.
And I'm using it with TeXLive of course, not with MikTeX like the
version that is now available at http://sourceforge.net/projects/lytex/.
 
 This error message should only occur if you try to install LyX 2.1rc1
 over LyX 2.1rc1. This is checked by the Windows registry. 

There can be nothing in the registry, since I don't have authorisation
to write to the registry on this computer. Which is a restriction
that's just as compulsive and imperious as those idiotic installers
are. Seems the most important concern of certain people is to prevent
others from being able to do their work.

 Hmm, or did you once installed LyX 2.1beta? If so you must
 uninstall LyX 2.1beta first (these were testing releases (for
 LyX-only not the installer nor LyX's dependencies) so that an easy
 upgrade is not possible).

A dumb installer would simply overwrite the previous installation and
that would be the thing to do. Yes, I do make a backup of the working
LyX before I overwrite it.
 
  Second, what's that bullshittish idea
 
 Could you please be a bit more polite. You apparently found a bug but
 there is no reason to be abusive!

I guess that implementing the check function is an extra effort to
make, which is totally pointless imho. I see exactly *zero* added
value from this function (actually a refusal to provide a required
function). The installer just shouldn't care for whether LyX is already
installed or not and overwrite everything, basta.

Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
adjectives to bullshittish.

Just like installers (resp. software requiring those) are anyway.
User-friendly software has to be packaged as simple zero-install zip
archives. And the Windows registry is only good as an open barn door
for viruses, trojans and other malware.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-29 Thread Liviu Andronic

On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Wolfgang Keller felip...@gmx.net wrote:
  LyX is already installed.
  Please uninstall LyX first.
 
  WTF?!
 
  First, this error message is *wrong*, since I don't have LyX
  installed. I use it in portable mode.

 Can you give me more information please. What LyX version are you
 using?

 LyX Version 2.1.0beta2
 (Sonntag, 10. November 2013)

 From where did you get the portable LyX?

 It was called LyTeX, and I have been using it since well before 2.0,
 the download location has moved since and the software has been updated.
 And I'm using it with TeXLive of course, not with MikTeX like the
 version that is now available at http://sourceforge.net/projects/lytex/.

 This error message should only occur if you try to install LyX 2.1rc1
 over LyX 2.1rc1. This is checked by the Windows registry.

 There can be nothing in the registry, since I don't have authorisation
 to write to the registry on this computer. Which is a restriction
 that's just as compulsive and imperious as those idiotic installers
 are. Seems the most important concern of certain people is to prevent
 others from being able to do their work.

 Hmm, or did you once installed LyX 2.1beta? If so you must
 uninstall LyX 2.1beta first (these were testing releases (for
 LyX-only not the installer nor LyX's dependencies) so that an easy
 upgrade is not possible).

 A dumb installer would simply overwrite the previous installation and
 that would be the thing to do. Yes, I do make a backup of the working
 LyX before I overwrite it.

  Second, what's that bullshittish idea

 Could you please be a bit more polite. You apparently found a bug but
 there is no reason to be abusive!

 I guess that implementing the check function is an extra effort to
 make, which is totally pointless imho. I see exactly *zero* added
 value from this function (actually a refusal to provide a required
 function). The installer just shouldn't care for whether LyX is already
 installed or not and overwrite everything, basta.



 Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
 people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
 compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
 adjectives to bullshittish.

Then come up with your own installer, or pay someone to do that for
you. LyX is provided by volunteers, and comes with absolutely no
warranty. Unhappy with what you get (for free), then don't use it. And
please don't insult the developers.

Liviu


 Just like installers (resp. software requiring those) are anyway.
 User-friendly software has to be packaged as simple zero-install zip
 archives. And the Windows registry is only good as an open barn door
 for viruses, trojans and other malware.

 Sincerely,

 Wolfgang



-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-29 Thread Richard Heck


On 03/29/2014 04:58 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:

On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Wolfgang Keller felip...@gmx.net wrote:

Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
adjectives to bullshittish.


Then come up with your own installer, or pay someone to do that for
you. LyX is provided by volunteers, and comes with absolutely no
warranty. Unhappy with what you get (for free), then don't use it. And
please don't insult the developers.


Really. What's with people these days? This is the second such episode 
we've had this week.


Richard

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-29 Thread Uwe Stöhr

Am 29.03.2014 20:22, schrieb Wolfgang Keller:

Can you give me more information please. What LyX version are you
using?

LyX Version 2.1.0beta2
(Sonntag, 10. November 2013)

Ah, then it is clear. The beta releases were test builds to test LyX's new features. Its installer
was not updated for a stable release, third party components like were not installed etc. Therefore
beta released cannot just be updated by installing a new LyX version over it.

We should have point this out in the announcement.

From where did you get the portable LyX?

It was called LyTeX, and I have been using it since well before 2.0,
the download location has moved since and the software has been updated.
And I'm using it with TeXLive of course, not with MikTeX like the
version that is now available at http://sourceforge.net/projects/lytex/.

Thanks, I was not aware of that LyTeX is still alive.
Apparently this version writes something to the registry (this can also be done by portable
versions). However, I wonder that they provided a beta version as portable LyTeX - as said the beta
version are for LyX-only and not for real-life documents, just for testing.

This error message should only occur if you try to install LyX 2.1rc1
over LyX 2.1rc1. This is checked by the Windows registry.

There can be nothing in the registry, since I don't have authorisation
to write to the registry on this computer.

You always have the right to write to the registry section HKey_Current_User.

Which is a restriction
that's just as compulsive and imperious as those idiotic installers
are. Seems the most important concern of certain people is to prevent
others from being able to do their work.

I don't understand. The LyX installer allows you to install LyX also if you only have a guest
account on a PC.

However, if your Admin denies to allow you to install things, he has a reason.
So better blame him.

Hmm, or did you once installed LyX 2.1beta? If so you must
uninstall LyX 2.1beta first (these were testing releases (for
LyX-only not the installer nor LyX's dependencies) so that an easy
upgrade is not possible).

A dumb installer would simply overwrite the previous installation

As aid, this is in case of beta releases no feature. We are only a small group of developers.
Providing also full support for beta versions would cost us a lot time we don't have. And don't
forget we all have a private life and a job - we develop LyX in our spare time!

Could you please be a bit more polite. You apparently found a bug but
there is no reason to be abusive!

I guess that implementing the check function is an extra effort to
make, which is totally pointless imho. I see exactly *zero* added
value from this function (actually a refusal to provide a required
function). The installer just shouldn't care for whether LyX is already
installed or not and overwrite everything, basta.

This can destroy your LyX settings so that it can become unusable. We are not stupid, the installer
is the result of years of development and many, many user feedback form almost all Win environments
with use-cases you cannot imagine, trust me!

Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
adjectives to bullshittish.

Thanks for the flowers, I basically wrote the installer and maintain it.

To shoot back ;-): Using a beta version for real-life is braindead (what a funny word) too because
the beta announcement clearly states that this should only be used to test the new features in LyX
and that there is no support for beta version.

Therefore I will give you no further support for your problem, sorry.

Just like installers (resp. software requiring those) are anyway.
User-friendly software has to be packaged as simple zero-install zip
archives. And the Windows registry is only good as an open barn door
for viruses, trojans and other malware.

Oha, I now fully understand your Admin that you are not allowed to install
programs.

Uwe

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-29 Thread Uwe Stöhr


Am 26.03.2014 22:41, schrieb Vincent van Ravesteijn:


Public release of LyX version 2.1.0rc1

LyX 2.1.0rc1 is the culmination of three years of hard work.
This release is meant for testing before we actually release LyX 2.1.


Dear LyX testers,

please note that if you are on Windows _and_ have a beta version of LyX 2.1 installed, it is 
strongly recommended to first uninstall the beta version before installing LyX 2.1RC1.


The reason is that for beta releases we cannot guarantee that they are stable enough. If you would 
install a never LyX test version over a beta it might be that you will still see bugs that we 
already fixed in LyX.


regards
Uwe

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-29 Thread Wolfgang Keller

  LyX is already installed.
  Please uninstall LyX first.
 
  WTF?!
 
  First, this error message is *wrong*, since I don't have LyX
  installed. I use it in portable mode.
 
 Can you give me more information please. What LyX version are you
 using?

LyX Version 2.1.0beta2
(Sonntag, 10. November 2013)

 From where did you get the portable LyX?

It was called LyTeX, and I have been using it since well before 2.0,
the download location has moved since and the software has been updated.
And I'm using it with TeXLive of course, not with MikTeX like the
version that is now available at http://sourceforge.net/projects/lytex/.
 
 This error message should only occur if you try to install LyX 2.1rc1
 over LyX 2.1rc1. This is checked by the Windows registry. 

There can be nothing in the registry, since I don't have authorisation
to write to the registry on this computer. Which is a restriction
that's just as compulsive and imperious as those idiotic installers
are. Seems the most important concern of certain people is to prevent
others from being able to do their work.

 Hmm, or did you once installed LyX 2.1beta? If so you must
 uninstall LyX 2.1beta first (these were testing releases (for
 LyX-only not the installer nor LyX's dependencies) so that an easy
 upgrade is not possible).

A dumb installer would simply overwrite the previous installation and
that would be the thing to do. Yes, I do make a backup of the working
LyX before I overwrite it.
 
  Second, what's that bullshittish idea
 
 Could you please be a bit more polite. You apparently found a bug but
 there is no reason to be abusive!

I guess that implementing the check function is an extra effort to
make, which is totally pointless imho. I see exactly *zero* added
value from this function (actually a refusal to provide a required
function). The installer just shouldn't care for whether LyX is already
installed or not and overwrite everything, basta.

Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
adjectives to bullshittish.

Just like installers (resp. software requiring those) are anyway.
User-friendly software has to be packaged as simple zero-install zip
archives. And the Windows registry is only good as an open barn door
for viruses, trojans and other malware.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-29 Thread Liviu Andronic

On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Wolfgang Keller felip...@gmx.net wrote:
  LyX is already installed.
  Please uninstall LyX first.
 
  WTF?!
 
  First, this error message is *wrong*, since I don't have LyX
  installed. I use it in portable mode.

 Can you give me more information please. What LyX version are you
 using?

 LyX Version 2.1.0beta2
 (Sonntag, 10. November 2013)

 From where did you get the portable LyX?

 It was called LyTeX, and I have been using it since well before 2.0,
 the download location has moved since and the software has been updated.
 And I'm using it with TeXLive of course, not with MikTeX like the
 version that is now available at http://sourceforge.net/projects/lytex/.

 This error message should only occur if you try to install LyX 2.1rc1
 over LyX 2.1rc1. This is checked by the Windows registry.

 There can be nothing in the registry, since I don't have authorisation
 to write to the registry on this computer. Which is a restriction
 that's just as compulsive and imperious as those idiotic installers
 are. Seems the most important concern of certain people is to prevent
 others from being able to do their work.

 Hmm, or did you once installed LyX 2.1beta? If so you must
 uninstall LyX 2.1beta first (these were testing releases (for
 LyX-only not the installer nor LyX's dependencies) so that an easy
 upgrade is not possible).

 A dumb installer would simply overwrite the previous installation and
 that would be the thing to do. Yes, I do make a backup of the working
 LyX before I overwrite it.

  Second, what's that bullshittish idea

 Could you please be a bit more polite. You apparently found a bug but
 there is no reason to be abusive!

 I guess that implementing the check function is an extra effort to
 make, which is totally pointless imho. I see exactly *zero* added
 value from this function (actually a refusal to provide a required
 function). The installer just shouldn't care for whether LyX is already
 installed or not and overwrite everything, basta.



 Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
 people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
 compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
 adjectives to bullshittish.

Then come up with your own installer, or pay someone to do that for
you. LyX is provided by volunteers, and comes with absolutely no
warranty. Unhappy with what you get (for free), then don't use it. And
please don't insult the developers.

Liviu


 Just like installers (resp. software requiring those) are anyway.
 User-friendly software has to be packaged as simple zero-install zip
 archives. And the Windows registry is only good as an open barn door
 for viruses, trojans and other malware.

 Sincerely,

 Wolfgang



-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: ANNOUNCE: LyX version 2.1.0 (rc1)

2014-03-29 Thread Richard Heck


On 03/29/2014 04:58 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:

On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Wolfgang Keller felip...@gmx.net wrote:

Looks like someone wanted to be extra-smart, but this only prevents
people from being able to do what they need to do. Which, to me, is
compulsive, imperious and totally braindead, if you prefer these
adjectives to bullshittish.


Then come up with your own installer, or pay someone to do that for
you. LyX is provided by volunteers, and comes with absolutely no
warranty. Unhappy with what you get (for free), then don't use it. And
please don't insult the developers.


Really. What's with people these days? This is the second such episode 
we've had this week.


Richard