Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Dotan Cohen]

I have always understood this as:
American English: A, B, and C
British English: A, B and C

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com

Please CC me if you want to be sure that I read your message. I do not
read all list mail.

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Dotan Cohen]

 The meal consisted of soup, salad, and macaroni and cheese.

The meal consisted of macaroni and cheese, soup, and salad.
Or, if the order is important:
The meal consisted of soup, salad, and macaroni  cheese.


 To my parents, Ayn Rand and God.

To Ayn Rand, my parents, and God.
Or, if the order is important:
To my parents, Ayn Rand and to God.


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com

Please CC me if you want to be sure that I read your message. I do not
read all list mail.

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Paul Rubin]

Dotan Cohen dotanco...@... writes:

 
 I have always understood this as:
 American English: A, B, and C
 British English: A, B and C
 

AFAIK A, B and C is the predominant usage in the U.S. (where, given the state
of our educational system, we're lucky if we get the first comma). That's what I
was taught (in New York) (after the American Revolution).  Can't speak for the
Brits, but perhaps they use the second comma. They certainly seem fond of extra
vowels.

/Paul

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Andrew Sullivan]

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 01:57:13PM +, Paul Rubin wrote:
 AFAIK A, B and C is the predominant usage in the U.S. (where, given the 
 state
 of our educational system, we're lucky if we get the first comma). That's 
 what I
 was taught (in New York) (after the American Revolution).  Can't speak for the
 Brits, but perhaps they use the second comma. They certainly seem fond of 
 extra
 vowels.

My Gowers edition of Fowler discusses this.  Fowler seems to think
that the main point is to avoid ambiguity, so that you normally
punctuate A, B and C, but need a comma in some cases.  The text
concedes, however, that some people prefer to put the comma every
time, for consistency, since it's sometimes needed to avoid ambiguity.
This appears to be left as a matter of taste.  (The reason not to do
it, of course, is that in an enumeration the comma really stands for
and, so to add a comma before the and would be otiose.)

Examples of ambiguity (again from Fowler):

Tenders were submitted by John Brown, Cammel Laird, Vickers, and
Harland and Wolff.  Without the comma after Vickers, you wouldn't
know that the last firm to submit was Harland and Wolff.

The smooth grey of the beech stem, the silky texture of the birch,
and the rugged pine.  Here, without the comma after birch, it would
read as though both the birch and the rugged pine have a silky
texture.

If you think that the ambiguous cases like those above are common
enough, and you want a consistent rule, then you should put the comma
after B.  Otherwise, you should only use the comma when you actually
need it (and A, B and C would be the right way in that case).  Isn't
it nice to have rules that start with it depends?

A

-- 
Andrew Sullivan
a...@shinkuro.com
Shinkuro, Inc.

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Dotan Cohen]

On 20 April 2010 17:12, Andrew Sullivan a...@shinkuro.com wrote:
 On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 01:57:13PM +, Paul Rubin wrote:
 AFAIK A, B and C is the predominant usage in the U.S. (where, given the 
 state
 of our educational system, we're lucky if we get the first comma). That's 
 what I
 was taught (in New York) (after the American Revolution).  Can't speak for 
 the
 Brits, but perhaps they use the second comma. They certainly seem fond of 
 extra
 vowels.

 My Gowers edition of Fowler discusses this.  Fowler seems to think
 that the main point is to avoid ambiguity, so that you normally
 punctuate A, B and C, but need a comma in some cases.  The text
 concedes, however, that some people prefer to put the comma every
 time, for consistency, since it's sometimes needed to avoid ambiguity.
 This appears to be left as a matter of taste.  (The reason not to do
 it, of course, is that in an enumeration the comma really stands for
 and, so to add a comma before the and would be otiose.)

 Examples of ambiguity (again from Fowler):

 Tenders were submitted by John Brown, Cammel Laird, Vickers, and
 Harland and Wolff.  Without the comma after Vickers, you wouldn't
 know that the last firm to submit was Harland and Wolff.

 The smooth grey of the beech stem, the silky texture of the birch,
 and the rugged pine.  Here, without the comma after birch, it would
 read as though both the birch and the rugged pine have a silky
 texture.

 If you think that the ambiguous cases like those above are common
 enough, and you want a consistent rule, then you should put the comma
 after B.  Otherwise, you should only use the comma when you actually
 need it (and A, B and C would be the right way in that case).  Isn't
 it nice to have rules that start with it depends?

 A

These are contrived examples. In every case the writer could reword
the sentence to remove the ambiguity, as I demonstrated in an earlier
post. The problem is not the commas, the problem is the desire to find
ambiguity and then to place blame. It is childish, authors who engage
in such practices are not wise for their ability to convey meaning,
they are wise for their ability to draw attention to their own egos.

A similar example for capitalization:
I once helped my uncle Jack off a horse.
I once helped my uncle jack off a horse.

Or for pronunciation:
He asked for a new display.
He asked far a nudist play.

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com

Please CC me if you want to be sure that I read your message. I do not
read all list mail.

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Andrew Sullivan]

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 06:06:57PM +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
 These are contrived examples. 

I'm pretty sure that all the examples in Fowler are not contrived
examples: they're real ones from real texts.  And it's not as though
Fowler wasn't pretty keen on clarity and elegance in prose.

 In every case the writer could reword
 the sentence to remove the ambiguity, as I demonstrated in an earlier
 post. 

Sure, you can always rewrite a sentence in a way less idiomatic in
order to avoid the problem.  Alternatively, you could do the sensible
thing and use a comma to avoid ambiguity in an otherwise perfectly
normal English idiom.  Enumerations are ubiquitous, and it's not
unusual for items to be enumerated already to have embedded
conjunctions.

 The problem is not the commas, the problem is the desire to find
 ambiguity and then to place blame.

I don't see who it is that's supposed to be placing blame here.

 A similar example for capitalization:

No, these are not similar to the obviously common case of having
conjunctions in the names of firms, in the way we refer to couples,
and so on.  Jack and Jill can refer to two individuals or to the
couple Jack and Jill; while context sometimes makes the intent
plain, in an enumeration with other conjunctions it might not be.

A

-- 
Andrew Sullivan
a...@shinkuro.com
Shinkuro, Inc.

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Dotan Cohen]

On 20 April 2010 18:17, Andrew Sullivan a...@shinkuro.com wrote:
 On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 06:06:57PM +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
 These are contrived examples.

 I'm pretty sure that all the examples in Fowler are not contrived
 examples: they're real ones from real texts.  And it's not as though
 Fowler wasn't pretty keen on clarity and elegance in prose.


If not contrived, then cherry-picked. Comma usage is no different than
any other tool in writing: sometimes the author is presented with a
corner case and must either risk ambiguity or revise his phrasing.


 In every case the writer could reword
 the sentence to remove the ambiguity, as I demonstrated in an earlier
 post.

 Sure, you can always rewrite a sentence in a way less idiomatic in
 order to avoid the problem.  Alternatively, you could do the sensible
 thing and use a comma to avoid ambiguity in an otherwise perfectly
 normal English idiom.

Which of the two choices is the sensible one depends on the situation.
I agree that proper usage of the commas could often be the sensible
choice.


 Enumerations are ubiquitous, and it's not
 unusual for items to be enumerated already to have embedded
 conjunctions.


I do not find it unusual. Rather, I find that many authors (or
writers, or journalists, or bloggers) do not take the time to
proofread for ambiguity. It borders on the irresponsible.


 The problem is not the commas, the problem is the desire to find
 ambiguity and then to place blame.

 I don't see who it is that's supposed to be placing blame here.


Those who insist that there is a problem with the rules of grammar.
The literature should not present the situation as a problem, rather,
unambiguity and methods to deal with ambiguity should be taught.


 A similar example for capitalization:

 No, these are not similar to the obviously common case of having
 conjunctions in the names of firms, in the way we refer to couples,
 and so on.

Correct. They are similar in the sense that they are examples of
ambiguity which could be eliminated by a simple rephrasing of the
content.

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Dotan Cohen]

I have always understood this as:
American English: A, B, and C
British English: A, B and C

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com

Please CC me if you want to be sure that I read your message. I do not
read all list mail.

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Dotan Cohen]

 The meal consisted of soup, salad, and macaroni and cheese.

The meal consisted of macaroni and cheese, soup, and salad.
Or, if the order is important:
The meal consisted of soup, salad, and macaroni  cheese.


 To my parents, Ayn Rand and God.

To Ayn Rand, my parents, and God.
Or, if the order is important:
To my parents, Ayn Rand and to God.


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com

Please CC me if you want to be sure that I read your message. I do not
read all list mail.

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Paul Rubin]

Dotan Cohen dotanco...@... writes:

 
 I have always understood this as:
 American English: A, B, and C
 British English: A, B and C
 

AFAIK A, B and C is the predominant usage in the U.S. (where, given the state
of our educational system, we're lucky if we get the first comma). That's what I
was taught (in New York) (after the American Revolution).  Can't speak for the
Brits, but perhaps they use the second comma. They certainly seem fond of extra
vowels.

/Paul

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Andrew Sullivan]

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 01:57:13PM +, Paul Rubin wrote:
 AFAIK A, B and C is the predominant usage in the U.S. (where, given the 
 state
 of our educational system, we're lucky if we get the first comma). That's 
 what I
 was taught (in New York) (after the American Revolution).  Can't speak for the
 Brits, but perhaps they use the second comma. They certainly seem fond of 
 extra
 vowels.

My Gowers edition of Fowler discusses this.  Fowler seems to think
that the main point is to avoid ambiguity, so that you normally
punctuate A, B and C, but need a comma in some cases.  The text
concedes, however, that some people prefer to put the comma every
time, for consistency, since it's sometimes needed to avoid ambiguity.
This appears to be left as a matter of taste.  (The reason not to do
it, of course, is that in an enumeration the comma really stands for
and, so to add a comma before the and would be otiose.)

Examples of ambiguity (again from Fowler):

Tenders were submitted by John Brown, Cammel Laird, Vickers, and
Harland and Wolff.  Without the comma after Vickers, you wouldn't
know that the last firm to submit was Harland and Wolff.

The smooth grey of the beech stem, the silky texture of the birch,
and the rugged pine.  Here, without the comma after birch, it would
read as though both the birch and the rugged pine have a silky
texture.

If you think that the ambiguous cases like those above are common
enough, and you want a consistent rule, then you should put the comma
after B.  Otherwise, you should only use the comma when you actually
need it (and A, B and C would be the right way in that case).  Isn't
it nice to have rules that start with it depends?

A

-- 
Andrew Sullivan
a...@shinkuro.com
Shinkuro, Inc.

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Dotan Cohen]

On 20 April 2010 17:12, Andrew Sullivan a...@shinkuro.com wrote:
 On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 01:57:13PM +, Paul Rubin wrote:
 AFAIK A, B and C is the predominant usage in the U.S. (where, given the 
 state
 of our educational system, we're lucky if we get the first comma). That's 
 what I
 was taught (in New York) (after the American Revolution).  Can't speak for 
 the
 Brits, but perhaps they use the second comma. They certainly seem fond of 
 extra
 vowels.

 My Gowers edition of Fowler discusses this.  Fowler seems to think
 that the main point is to avoid ambiguity, so that you normally
 punctuate A, B and C, but need a comma in some cases.  The text
 concedes, however, that some people prefer to put the comma every
 time, for consistency, since it's sometimes needed to avoid ambiguity.
 This appears to be left as a matter of taste.  (The reason not to do
 it, of course, is that in an enumeration the comma really stands for
 and, so to add a comma before the and would be otiose.)

 Examples of ambiguity (again from Fowler):

 Tenders were submitted by John Brown, Cammel Laird, Vickers, and
 Harland and Wolff.  Without the comma after Vickers, you wouldn't
 know that the last firm to submit was Harland and Wolff.

 The smooth grey of the beech stem, the silky texture of the birch,
 and the rugged pine.  Here, without the comma after birch, it would
 read as though both the birch and the rugged pine have a silky
 texture.

 If you think that the ambiguous cases like those above are common
 enough, and you want a consistent rule, then you should put the comma
 after B.  Otherwise, you should only use the comma when you actually
 need it (and A, B and C would be the right way in that case).  Isn't
 it nice to have rules that start with it depends?

 A

These are contrived examples. In every case the writer could reword
the sentence to remove the ambiguity, as I demonstrated in an earlier
post. The problem is not the commas, the problem is the desire to find
ambiguity and then to place blame. It is childish, authors who engage
in such practices are not wise for their ability to convey meaning,
they are wise for their ability to draw attention to their own egos.

A similar example for capitalization:
I once helped my uncle Jack off a horse.
I once helped my uncle jack off a horse.

Or for pronunciation:
He asked for a new display.
He asked far a nudist play.

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com

Please CC me if you want to be sure that I read your message. I do not
read all list mail.

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Andrew Sullivan]

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 06:06:57PM +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
 These are contrived examples. 

I'm pretty sure that all the examples in Fowler are not contrived
examples: they're real ones from real texts.  And it's not as though
Fowler wasn't pretty keen on clarity and elegance in prose.

 In every case the writer could reword
 the sentence to remove the ambiguity, as I demonstrated in an earlier
 post. 

Sure, you can always rewrite a sentence in a way less idiomatic in
order to avoid the problem.  Alternatively, you could do the sensible
thing and use a comma to avoid ambiguity in an otherwise perfectly
normal English idiom.  Enumerations are ubiquitous, and it's not
unusual for items to be enumerated already to have embedded
conjunctions.

 The problem is not the commas, the problem is the desire to find
 ambiguity and then to place blame.

I don't see who it is that's supposed to be placing blame here.

 A similar example for capitalization:

No, these are not similar to the obviously common case of having
conjunctions in the names of firms, in the way we refer to couples,
and so on.  Jack and Jill can refer to two individuals or to the
couple Jack and Jill; while context sometimes makes the intent
plain, in an enumeration with other conjunctions it might not be.

A

-- 
Andrew Sullivan
a...@shinkuro.com
Shinkuro, Inc.

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Dotan Cohen]

On 20 April 2010 18:17, Andrew Sullivan a...@shinkuro.com wrote:
 On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 06:06:57PM +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
 These are contrived examples.

 I'm pretty sure that all the examples in Fowler are not contrived
 examples: they're real ones from real texts.  And it's not as though
 Fowler wasn't pretty keen on clarity and elegance in prose.


If not contrived, then cherry-picked. Comma usage is no different than
any other tool in writing: sometimes the author is presented with a
corner case and must either risk ambiguity or revise his phrasing.


 In every case the writer could reword
 the sentence to remove the ambiguity, as I demonstrated in an earlier
 post.

 Sure, you can always rewrite a sentence in a way less idiomatic in
 order to avoid the problem.  Alternatively, you could do the sensible
 thing and use a comma to avoid ambiguity in an otherwise perfectly
 normal English idiom.

Which of the two choices is the sensible one depends on the situation.
I agree that proper usage of the commas could often be the sensible
choice.


 Enumerations are ubiquitous, and it's not
 unusual for items to be enumerated already to have embedded
 conjunctions.


I do not find it unusual. Rather, I find that many authors (or
writers, or journalists, or bloggers) do not take the time to
proofread for ambiguity. It borders on the irresponsible.


 The problem is not the commas, the problem is the desire to find
 ambiguity and then to place blame.

 I don't see who it is that's supposed to be placing blame here.


Those who insist that there is a problem with the rules of grammar.
The literature should not present the situation as a problem, rather,
unambiguity and methods to deal with ambiguity should be taught.


 A similar example for capitalization:

 No, these are not similar to the obviously common case of having
 conjunctions in the names of firms, in the way we refer to couples,
 and so on.

Correct. They are similar in the sense that they are examples of
ambiguity which could be eliminated by a simple rephrasing of the
content.

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Dotan Cohen]

I have always understood this as:
American English: A, B, and C
British English: A, B and C

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com

Please CC me if you want to be sure that I read your message. I do not
read all list mail.

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Dotan Cohen]

> "The meal consisted of soup, salad, and macaroni and cheese."

"The meal consisted of macaroni and cheese, soup, and salad."
Or, if the order is important:
"The meal consisted of soup, salad, and macaroni & cheese."


> "To my parents, Ayn Rand and God."

"To Ayn Rand, my parents, and God."
Or, if the order is important:
"To my parents, Ayn Rand and to God."


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com

Please CC me if you want to be sure that I read your message. I do not
read all list mail.

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Paul Rubin]

Dotan Cohen  writes:

> 
> I have always understood this as:
> American English: A, B, and C
> British English: A, B and C
> 

AFAIK "A, B and C" is the predominant usage in the U.S. (where, given the state
of our educational system, we're lucky if we get the first comma). That's what I
was taught (in New York) (after the American Revolution).  Can't speak for the
Brits, but perhaps they use the second comma. They certainly seem fond of extra
vowels.

/Paul

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Andrew Sullivan]

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 01:57:13PM +, Paul Rubin wrote:
> AFAIK "A, B and C" is the predominant usage in the U.S. (where, given the 
> state
> of our educational system, we're lucky if we get the first comma). That's 
> what I
> was taught (in New York) (after the American Revolution).  Can't speak for the
> Brits, but perhaps they use the second comma. They certainly seem fond of 
> extra
> vowels.

My Gowers edition of Fowler discusses this.  Fowler seems to think
that the main point is to avoid ambiguity, so that you normally
punctuate "A, B and C", but need a comma in some cases.  The text
concedes, however, that some people prefer to put the comma every
time, for consistency, since it's sometimes needed to avoid ambiguity.
This appears to be left as a matter of taste.  (The reason not to do
it, of course, is that in an enumeration the comma really stands for
"and", so to add a comma before the "and" would be otiose.)

Examples of ambiguity (again from Fowler):

"Tenders were submitted by John Brown, Cammel Laird, Vickers, and
Harland and Wolff."  Without the comma after Vickers, you wouldn't
know that the last firm to submit was "Harland and Wolff".

"The smooth grey of the beech stem, the silky texture of the birch,
and the rugged pine."  Here, without the comma after birch, it would
read as though both the birch and the rugged pine have a silky
texture.

If you think that the ambiguous cases like those above are common
enough, and you want a consistent rule, then you should put the comma
after B.  Otherwise, you should only use the comma when you actually
need it (and A, B and C would be the right way in that case).  Isn't
it nice to have rules that start with "it depends"?

A

-- 
Andrew Sullivan
a...@shinkuro.com
Shinkuro, Inc.

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Dotan Cohen]

On 20 April 2010 17:12, Andrew Sullivan  wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 01:57:13PM +, Paul Rubin wrote:
>> AFAIK "A, B and C" is the predominant usage in the U.S. (where, given the 
>> state
>> of our educational system, we're lucky if we get the first comma). That's 
>> what I
>> was taught (in New York) (after the American Revolution).  Can't speak for 
>> the
>> Brits, but perhaps they use the second comma. They certainly seem fond of 
>> extra
>> vowels.
>
> My Gowers edition of Fowler discusses this.  Fowler seems to think
> that the main point is to avoid ambiguity, so that you normally
> punctuate "A, B and C", but need a comma in some cases.  The text
> concedes, however, that some people prefer to put the comma every
> time, for consistency, since it's sometimes needed to avoid ambiguity.
> This appears to be left as a matter of taste.  (The reason not to do
> it, of course, is that in an enumeration the comma really stands for
> "and", so to add a comma before the "and" would be otiose.)
>
> Examples of ambiguity (again from Fowler):
>
> "Tenders were submitted by John Brown, Cammel Laird, Vickers, and
> Harland and Wolff."  Without the comma after Vickers, you wouldn't
> know that the last firm to submit was "Harland and Wolff".
>
> "The smooth grey of the beech stem, the silky texture of the birch,
> and the rugged pine."  Here, without the comma after birch, it would
> read as though both the birch and the rugged pine have a silky
> texture.
>
> If you think that the ambiguous cases like those above are common
> enough, and you want a consistent rule, then you should put the comma
> after B.  Otherwise, you should only use the comma when you actually
> need it (and A, B and C would be the right way in that case).  Isn't
> it nice to have rules that start with "it depends"?
>
> A

These are contrived examples. In every case the writer could reword
the sentence to remove the ambiguity, as I demonstrated in an earlier
post. The problem is not the commas, the problem is the desire to find
ambiguity and then to place blame. It is childish, authors who engage
in such practices are not wise for their ability to convey meaning,
they are wise for their ability to draw attention to their own egos.

A similar example for capitalization:
I once helped my uncle Jack off a horse.
I once helped my uncle jack off a horse.

Or for pronunciation:
He asked for a new display.
He asked far a nudist play.

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com

Please CC me if you want to be sure that I read your message. I do not
read all list mail.

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Andrew Sullivan]

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 06:06:57PM +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> These are contrived examples. 

I'm pretty sure that all the examples in Fowler are not contrived
examples: they're real ones from real texts.  And it's not as though
Fowler wasn't pretty keen on clarity and elegance in prose.

> In every case the writer could reword
> the sentence to remove the ambiguity, as I demonstrated in an earlier
> post. 

Sure, you can always rewrite a sentence in a way less idiomatic in
order to avoid the problem.  Alternatively, you could do the sensible
thing and use a comma to avoid ambiguity in an otherwise perfectly
normal English idiom.  Enumerations are ubiquitous, and it's not
unusual for items to be enumerated already to have embedded
conjunctions.

> The problem is not the commas, the problem is the desire to find
> ambiguity and then to place blame.

I don't see who it is that's supposed to be placing blame here.

> A similar example for capitalization:

No, these are not similar to the obviously common case of having
conjunctions in the names of firms, in the way we refer to couples,
and so on.  "Jack and Jill" can refer to two individuals or to the
couple "Jack and Jill"; while context sometimes makes the intent
plain, in an enumeration with other conjunctions it might not be.

A

-- 
Andrew Sullivan
a...@shinkuro.com
Shinkuro, Inc.

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Dotan Cohen]

On 20 April 2010 18:17, Andrew Sullivan  wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 06:06:57PM +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
>> These are contrived examples.
>
> I'm pretty sure that all the examples in Fowler are not contrived
> examples: they're real ones from real texts.  And it's not as though
> Fowler wasn't pretty keen on clarity and elegance in prose.
>

If not contrived, then cherry-picked. Comma usage is no different than
any other tool in writing: sometimes the author is presented with a
corner case and must either risk ambiguity or revise his phrasing.


>> In every case the writer could reword
>> the sentence to remove the ambiguity, as I demonstrated in an earlier
>> post.
>
> Sure, you can always rewrite a sentence in a way less idiomatic in
> order to avoid the problem.  Alternatively, you could do the sensible
> thing and use a comma to avoid ambiguity in an otherwise perfectly
> normal English idiom.

Which of the two choices is the sensible one depends on the situation.
I agree that proper usage of the commas could often be the sensible
choice.


> Enumerations are ubiquitous, and it's not
> unusual for items to be enumerated already to have embedded
> conjunctions.
>

I do not find it unusual. Rather, I find that many authors (or
writers, or journalists, or bloggers) do not take the time to
proofread for ambiguity. It borders on the irresponsible.


>> The problem is not the commas, the problem is the desire to find
>> ambiguity and then to place blame.
>
> I don't see who it is that's supposed to be placing blame here.
>

Those who insist that there is a problem with the rules of grammar.
The literature should not present the situation as a problem, rather,
unambiguity and methods to deal with ambiguity should be taught.


>> A similar example for capitalization:
>
> No, these are not similar to the obviously common case of having
> conjunctions in the names of firms, in the way we refer to couples,
> and so on.

Correct. They are similar in the sense that they are examples of
ambiguity which could be eliminated by a simple rephrasing of the
content.

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com

Formatting numbered equations

[Marshall Feldman]

Hello,

I have several questions regarding numbered equations:

  1. How does one add punctuation to numbered equations?
  2. How does one make the equations be part of a paragraph that begins
 before and continues after them?
  3. How does one continue a numbered equation across multiple lines?

For example:
_

Three of the most often quoted elementary mathematical
   equations are

   2 + 2 = 4(1),
   C = 2 x pi x r  (2), and
   A = (1/2) b x h   (3).

   As you can see, Equation 2 is the most complex.

_
In the above example, I can't figure out how to add the commas, period, 
and conjunction adjacent to the equation numbers. Also notice that the 
sentence beginning with As is part of the paragraph beginning with 
Three. I can't get Lyx to format them right. The sentence beginning 
with Three is indented because it starts a paragraph. When I add 
anything after an equation number, LyX automatically treats it as a new 
paragraph. So in the above example, the line beginning with As you can 
is treated as the start of a new paragraph and indented.


Regarding my third question, I have a long equation that should span 
multiple lines. Instead, LyX keeps it on one line that runs off the 
right side of the page, when it should look like:


   5 = 1 + 5 = 2 + 3 = 3 + 2 = 4 + 1 = 10/2
  = 50/10 = 100/20   (4)

Thanks for your help.

Marsh Feldman

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[rgheck]

On 04/19/2010 02:25 PM, Marshall Feldman wrote:

Hello,

I have several questions regarding numbered equations:

  1. How does one add punctuation to numbered equations?
  2. How does one make the equations be part of a paragraph that begins
 before and continues after them?
  3. How does one continue a numbered equation across multiple lines?


That's a lot of questions. ;-)


For example:
_ 



Three of the most often quoted elementary mathematical
   equations are

   2 + 2 = 4(1),
   C = 2 x pi x r  (2), and
   A = (1/2) b x h   (3).

   As you can see, Equation 2 is the most complex.

_ 

In the above example, I can't figure out how to add the commas, 
period, and conjunction adjacent to the equation numbers.


If you're using an equation array or something of the sort to format 
this, then you cannot add punctuation after the labels. There simply 
isn't any way to do this, so far as I know, not unless you define (or 
find) your own environments that allow it. An option is to turn on the 
fleqn option by putting fleqn in the Options field under 
DocumentSettingsDocument ClassCustom. This moves the numbers to the 
left, and then you can add the text in the usual way. Alternatively, 
change your syntax. These are three...:.


Also notice that the sentence beginning with As is part of the 
paragraph beginning with Three. I can't get Lyx to format them 
right. The sentence beginning with Three is indented because it 
starts a paragraph. When I add anything after an equation number, LyX 
automatically treats it as a new paragraph. So in the above example, 
the line beginning with As you can is treated as the start of a new 
paragraph and indented.


I'm not sure I fully understand this, but compare the two paragraphs in 
the attached document. In the second case, where the paragraph is 
indented, there is a return after the formula. If you put the cursor at 
the beginning of what and backspace, you will delete that return.


Regarding my third question, I have a long equation that should span 
multiple lines. Instead, LyX keeps it on one line that runs off the 
right side of the page, when it should look like:


   5 = 1 + 5 = 2 + 3 = 3 + 2 = 4 + 1 = 10/2
  = 50/10 = 100/20   (4)

Thanks for your help.

You'll have to use something like the gather environment, or maybe an 
align environment, to format this correctly. Example in the file, again.


rh

#LyX 1.6.6svn created this file. For more info see http://www.lyx.org/
\lyxformat 345
\begin_document
\begin_header
\textclass paper
\begin_preamble
\usepackage{heck}
\end_preamble
\use_default_options false
\language english
\inputencoding auto
\font_roman times
\font_sans helvet
\font_typewriter courier
\font_default_family default
\font_sc false
\font_osf false
\font_sf_scale 100
\font_tt_scale 100

\graphics default
\paperfontsize 11
\spacing single
\use_hyperref false
\papersize letterpaper
\use_geometry false
\use_amsmath 1
\use_esint 0
\cite_engine natbib_authoryear
\use_bibtopic false
\paperorientation portrait
\leftmargin 1in
\topmargin 1in
\rightmargin 1in
\bottommargin 1in
\secnumdepth 3
\tocdepth 3
\paragraph_separation indent
\defskip smallskip
\quotes_language english
\papercolumns 1
\papersides 1
\paperpagestyle plain
\tracking_changes false
\output_changes false
\author  
\author  
\end_header

\begin_body

\begin_layout Standard
this.
\begin_inset Formula \begin{gather}
a=b\\
b=a\end{gather}

\end_inset

that.
 and now more
\begin_inset Formula \begin{gather}
a=b\\
b=a\end{gather}

\end_inset


\end_layout

\begin_layout Standard
what happened? Uh oh.
\begin_inset Formula \[
a=b=c=d=e=f=g=h=i=j=k=l=m=n=o=p=q=r=s=t=u=v=w=x=y=z=0=1=2=3=4=5=6=7=8=9=0\]

\end_inset

Let's fix that.
\begin_inset Formula \begin{align*}
a  =b=c=d=e=f=g=h=i=j=k=l\\
  =m=n=o=p=q=r=s=t=u=v=w\\
  =x=y=z=0=1=2=3=4=5=6=7=8=9=0\end{align*}

\end_inset

Much better.
\end_layout

\end_body
\end_document

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Uwe Stöhr]

Am 19.04.2010 20:25, schrieb Marshall Feldman:


I have several questions regarding numbered equations:


At first, please have a look at LyX's Math manual that you find in LyX's 
help menu. This will give you many info and answers.



1. How does one add punctuation to numbered equations?


What do you mean here?


2. How does one make the equations be part of a paragraph that begins
before and continues after them?


I also don't understand what you mean here. If you are in a paragraph 
and press Ctrl+Shift+m you get a displayed formula that is part of this 
paragraph. (If you want to have an inline equation, press only Ctrl+m 
(omit the Shift key).)



3. How does one continue a numbered equation across multiple lines?



2 + 2 = 4 (1),
C = 2 x pi x r (2), and
A = (1/2) b x h (3).

In the above example, I can't figure out how to add the commas, period,
and conjunction adjacent to the equation numbers.


The equation number is the last character of an equation line, according 
to ISO norms. So you need to place the phrase add into a separate 
line. This can be done by either


- using the command \intertext, as described in the Math manual
- use two equations as in the attached example file

The latter is the usual method.

(By the way in English there is no comma before the and if the part 
after the and is the last enumeration in a sentence; like in

A, B, C and D are letters.)


Also notice that the
sentence beginning with As is part of the paragraph beginning with
Three.


Everything is one paragraph if you don't press Enter after of before the 
equations. In the attached file there is only one paragraph.



Regarding my third question, I have a long equation that should span
multiple lines. Instead, LyX keeps it on one line that runs off the
right side of the page, when it should look like:

5 = 1 + 5 = 2 + 3 = 3 + 2 = 4 + 1 = 10/2
= 50/10 = 100/20 (4)


You are responsible for line breaks in equations. Possible methods are 
described in the Math manual.


regards Uwe


newfile3.lyx
Description: application/lyx

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Paul Rubin]

Marshall Feldman ma...@... writes:

 
 I have several questions regarding numbered equations:
 
1. How does one add punctuation to numbered equations?

Inside the equations, you add punctuation the usual way. After the equation
numbers, you don't add punctuation.  If you somehow succeed, the gods of
typography will smite you mightily.  I don't think I've ever seen a book or
journal contain punctuation after the equation numbers.

2. How does one make the equations be part of a paragraph that begins
   before and continues after them?

Type the initial text, then C-S-M or Insert  Math  (some equation environment)
without hitting enter first. That makes the math environment part of the same
paragraph as the preceding text. Upon conclusion of the math stuff, use the
right arrow or space bar to escape the math environment (or click just outside
it) and keep typing (again, without hitting enter) -- the additional text will
automatically flow to the next line without indentation, continuing the same
paragraph.

If you insert the equation as a display equation
3. How does one continue a numbered equation across multiple lines?

Help  Math, section 18.

/Paul

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Marshall Feldman]

Thanks to everyone. I'll have to look at the Math manual.

I do, however, want to add one thing:

On 4/19/2010 4:09 PM, Uwe Stöhr wrote:


(By the way in English there is no comma before the and if the part 
after the and is the last enumeration in a sentence; like in

A, B, C and D are letters.)


The following comes from the /Chicago Manual of Style/, 15th ed., 
section 6.18:


   When a conjunction joins the last two elements in a series, a comma
   -- known as the serial or series comma or the Oxford comma -- should
   appear before the conjunction. Chicago strongly recommends this
   widely practiced usage, blessed by Fowler and other authorities (see
   bibliog. 1.2), since it prevents ambiguity.

Here's an example of what the CMS is talking about:

The meal consisted of soup, salad, and macaroni and cheese.

Thanks to the commas we know there are three courses, the last being 
macaroni and cheese, rather than four, including macaroni as the 
third and cheese as the fourth.


Thanks again!
Marsh Feldman

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Uwe Stöhr]

Am 19.04.2010 22:57, schrieb Marshall Feldman:


(By the way in English there is no comma before the and if the part
after the and is the last enumeration in a sentence; like in
A, B, C and D are letters.)


The following comes from the /Chicago Manual of Style/, 15th ed.,
section 6.18:

When a conjunction joins the last two elements in a series, a comma
-- known as the serial or series comma or the Oxford comma -- should
appear before the conjunction. Chicago strongly recommends this
widely practiced usage, blessed by Fowler and other authorities (see
bibliog. 1.2), since it prevents ambiguity.

Here's an example of what the CMS is talking about:

The meal consisted of soup, salad, and macaroni and cheese.


I was saying the same. In your example there must be a comma before the 
first and because there is a further and in the last course.

In your formulas case you have only 3 courses:
(1)
(2)
and
(3)

so that
(1)
(2)
, and
(3)

would be wrong, because there is only one course behind the and and 
there is no further and inside the last course.


I recently had the same discussion with our English LyX manual proof 
reader who's working for a publishing company.


regards Uwe

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Bruce Pourciau]

On Apr 19, 2010, at 4:18 PM, Uwe Stöhr wrote:


Am 19.04.2010 22:57, schrieb Marshall Feldman:

(By the way in English there is no comma before the and if the  
part

after the and is the last enumeration in a sentence; like in
A, B, C and D are letters.)


The following comes from the /Chicago Manual of Style/, 15th ed.,
section 6.18:

When a conjunction joins the last two elements in a series, a comma
-- known as the serial or series comma or the Oxford comma -- should
appear before the conjunction. Chicago strongly recommends this
widely practiced usage, blessed by Fowler and other authorities (see
bibliog. 1.2), since it prevents ambiguity.

Here's an example of what the CMS is talking about:

The meal consisted of soup, salad, and macaroni and cheese.


I was saying the same. In your example there must be a comma before  
the

first and because there is a further and in the last course.
In your formulas case you have only 3 courses:
(1)
(2)
and
(3)

so that
(1)
(2)
, and
(3)

would be wrong, because there is only one course behind the and and
there is no further and inside the last course.

I recently had the same discussion with our English LyX manual proof
reader who's working for a publishing company.

regards Uwe


The advice given by the Chicago Manual of Style does not depend on  
there being a further and in the last course. To reduce the chance  
of ambiguity, they recommend inserting the Oxford comma whenever a  
conjunction joins the last two elements in a series. Here's a  
humorous example in a book dedication (from wikipedia):


To my parents, Ayn Rand and God.
To my parents, Ayn Rand, and God.

But the Oxford comma can also introduce ambiguity:

My mother, Ayn Rand, and God.

In the punctuation world, there's no general agreement on the use of  
the Oxford comma, just various organizations going one way of the other.


Bruce

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[rgheck]

On 04/19/2010 04:57 PM, Marshall Feldman wrote:


Here's an example of what the CMS is talking about:

The meal consisted of soup, salad, and macaroni and cheese.


Of course, the better known case is the panda, who eats, shoots and leaves.

rh

Formatting numbered equations

[Marshall Feldman]

Hello,

I have several questions regarding numbered equations:

  1. How does one add punctuation to numbered equations?
  2. How does one make the equations be part of a paragraph that begins
 before and continues after them?
  3. How does one continue a numbered equation across multiple lines?

For example:
_

Three of the most often quoted elementary mathematical
   equations are

   2 + 2 = 4(1),
   C = 2 x pi x r  (2), and
   A = (1/2) b x h   (3).

   As you can see, Equation 2 is the most complex.

_
In the above example, I can't figure out how to add the commas, period, 
and conjunction adjacent to the equation numbers. Also notice that the 
sentence beginning with As is part of the paragraph beginning with 
Three. I can't get Lyx to format them right. The sentence beginning 
with Three is indented because it starts a paragraph. When I add 
anything after an equation number, LyX automatically treats it as a new 
paragraph. So in the above example, the line beginning with As you can 
is treated as the start of a new paragraph and indented.


Regarding my third question, I have a long equation that should span 
multiple lines. Instead, LyX keeps it on one line that runs off the 
right side of the page, when it should look like:


   5 = 1 + 5 = 2 + 3 = 3 + 2 = 4 + 1 = 10/2
  = 50/10 = 100/20   (4)

Thanks for your help.

Marsh Feldman

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[rgheck]

On 04/19/2010 02:25 PM, Marshall Feldman wrote:

Hello,

I have several questions regarding numbered equations:

  1. How does one add punctuation to numbered equations?
  2. How does one make the equations be part of a paragraph that begins
 before and continues after them?
  3. How does one continue a numbered equation across multiple lines?


That's a lot of questions. ;-)


For example:
_ 



Three of the most often quoted elementary mathematical
   equations are

   2 + 2 = 4(1),
   C = 2 x pi x r  (2), and
   A = (1/2) b x h   (3).

   As you can see, Equation 2 is the most complex.

_ 

In the above example, I can't figure out how to add the commas, 
period, and conjunction adjacent to the equation numbers.


If you're using an equation array or something of the sort to format 
this, then you cannot add punctuation after the labels. There simply 
isn't any way to do this, so far as I know, not unless you define (or 
find) your own environments that allow it. An option is to turn on the 
fleqn option by putting fleqn in the Options field under 
DocumentSettingsDocument ClassCustom. This moves the numbers to the 
left, and then you can add the text in the usual way. Alternatively, 
change your syntax. These are three...:.


Also notice that the sentence beginning with As is part of the 
paragraph beginning with Three. I can't get Lyx to format them 
right. The sentence beginning with Three is indented because it 
starts a paragraph. When I add anything after an equation number, LyX 
automatically treats it as a new paragraph. So in the above example, 
the line beginning with As you can is treated as the start of a new 
paragraph and indented.


I'm not sure I fully understand this, but compare the two paragraphs in 
the attached document. In the second case, where the paragraph is 
indented, there is a return after the formula. If you put the cursor at 
the beginning of what and backspace, you will delete that return.


Regarding my third question, I have a long equation that should span 
multiple lines. Instead, LyX keeps it on one line that runs off the 
right side of the page, when it should look like:


   5 = 1 + 5 = 2 + 3 = 3 + 2 = 4 + 1 = 10/2
  = 50/10 = 100/20   (4)

Thanks for your help.

You'll have to use something like the gather environment, or maybe an 
align environment, to format this correctly. Example in the file, again.


rh

#LyX 1.6.6svn created this file. For more info see http://www.lyx.org/
\lyxformat 345
\begin_document
\begin_header
\textclass paper
\begin_preamble
\usepackage{heck}
\end_preamble
\use_default_options false
\language english
\inputencoding auto
\font_roman times
\font_sans helvet
\font_typewriter courier
\font_default_family default
\font_sc false
\font_osf false
\font_sf_scale 100
\font_tt_scale 100

\graphics default
\paperfontsize 11
\spacing single
\use_hyperref false
\papersize letterpaper
\use_geometry false
\use_amsmath 1
\use_esint 0
\cite_engine natbib_authoryear
\use_bibtopic false
\paperorientation portrait
\leftmargin 1in
\topmargin 1in
\rightmargin 1in
\bottommargin 1in
\secnumdepth 3
\tocdepth 3
\paragraph_separation indent
\defskip smallskip
\quotes_language english
\papercolumns 1
\papersides 1
\paperpagestyle plain
\tracking_changes false
\output_changes false
\author  
\author  
\end_header

\begin_body

\begin_layout Standard
this.
\begin_inset Formula \begin{gather}
a=b\\
b=a\end{gather}

\end_inset

that.
 and now more
\begin_inset Formula \begin{gather}
a=b\\
b=a\end{gather}

\end_inset


\end_layout

\begin_layout Standard
what happened? Uh oh.
\begin_inset Formula \[
a=b=c=d=e=f=g=h=i=j=k=l=m=n=o=p=q=r=s=t=u=v=w=x=y=z=0=1=2=3=4=5=6=7=8=9=0\]

\end_inset

Let's fix that.
\begin_inset Formula \begin{align*}
a  =b=c=d=e=f=g=h=i=j=k=l\\
  =m=n=o=p=q=r=s=t=u=v=w\\
  =x=y=z=0=1=2=3=4=5=6=7=8=9=0\end{align*}

\end_inset

Much better.
\end_layout

\end_body
\end_document

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Uwe Stöhr]

Am 19.04.2010 20:25, schrieb Marshall Feldman:


I have several questions regarding numbered equations:


At first, please have a look at LyX's Math manual that you find in LyX's 
help menu. This will give you many info and answers.



1. How does one add punctuation to numbered equations?


What do you mean here?


2. How does one make the equations be part of a paragraph that begins
before and continues after them?


I also don't understand what you mean here. If you are in a paragraph 
and press Ctrl+Shift+m you get a displayed formula that is part of this 
paragraph. (If you want to have an inline equation, press only Ctrl+m 
(omit the Shift key).)



3. How does one continue a numbered equation across multiple lines?



2 + 2 = 4 (1),
C = 2 x pi x r (2), and
A = (1/2) b x h (3).

In the above example, I can't figure out how to add the commas, period,
and conjunction adjacent to the equation numbers.


The equation number is the last character of an equation line, according 
to ISO norms. So you need to place the phrase add into a separate 
line. This can be done by either


- using the command \intertext, as described in the Math manual
- use two equations as in the attached example file

The latter is the usual method.

(By the way in English there is no comma before the and if the part 
after the and is the last enumeration in a sentence; like in

A, B, C and D are letters.)


Also notice that the
sentence beginning with As is part of the paragraph beginning with
Three.


Everything is one paragraph if you don't press Enter after of before the 
equations. In the attached file there is only one paragraph.



Regarding my third question, I have a long equation that should span
multiple lines. Instead, LyX keeps it on one line that runs off the
right side of the page, when it should look like:

5 = 1 + 5 = 2 + 3 = 3 + 2 = 4 + 1 = 10/2
= 50/10 = 100/20 (4)


You are responsible for line breaks in equations. Possible methods are 
described in the Math manual.


regards Uwe


newfile3.lyx
Description: application/lyx

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Paul Rubin]

Marshall Feldman ma...@... writes:

 
 I have several questions regarding numbered equations:
 
1. How does one add punctuation to numbered equations?

Inside the equations, you add punctuation the usual way. After the equation
numbers, you don't add punctuation.  If you somehow succeed, the gods of
typography will smite you mightily.  I don't think I've ever seen a book or
journal contain punctuation after the equation numbers.

2. How does one make the equations be part of a paragraph that begins
   before and continues after them?

Type the initial text, then C-S-M or Insert  Math  (some equation environment)
without hitting enter first. That makes the math environment part of the same
paragraph as the preceding text. Upon conclusion of the math stuff, use the
right arrow or space bar to escape the math environment (or click just outside
it) and keep typing (again, without hitting enter) -- the additional text will
automatically flow to the next line without indentation, continuing the same
paragraph.

If you insert the equation as a display equation
3. How does one continue a numbered equation across multiple lines?

Help  Math, section 18.

/Paul

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Marshall Feldman]

Thanks to everyone. I'll have to look at the Math manual.

I do, however, want to add one thing:

On 4/19/2010 4:09 PM, Uwe Stöhr wrote:


(By the way in English there is no comma before the and if the part 
after the and is the last enumeration in a sentence; like in

A, B, C and D are letters.)


The following comes from the /Chicago Manual of Style/, 15th ed., 
section 6.18:


   When a conjunction joins the last two elements in a series, a comma
   -- known as the serial or series comma or the Oxford comma -- should
   appear before the conjunction. Chicago strongly recommends this
   widely practiced usage, blessed by Fowler and other authorities (see
   bibliog. 1.2), since it prevents ambiguity.

Here's an example of what the CMS is talking about:

The meal consisted of soup, salad, and macaroni and cheese.

Thanks to the commas we know there are three courses, the last being 
macaroni and cheese, rather than four, including macaroni as the 
third and cheese as the fourth.


Thanks again!
Marsh Feldman

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Uwe Stöhr]

Am 19.04.2010 22:57, schrieb Marshall Feldman:


(By the way in English there is no comma before the and if the part
after the and is the last enumeration in a sentence; like in
A, B, C and D are letters.)


The following comes from the /Chicago Manual of Style/, 15th ed.,
section 6.18:

When a conjunction joins the last two elements in a series, a comma
-- known as the serial or series comma or the Oxford comma -- should
appear before the conjunction. Chicago strongly recommends this
widely practiced usage, blessed by Fowler and other authorities (see
bibliog. 1.2), since it prevents ambiguity.

Here's an example of what the CMS is talking about:

The meal consisted of soup, salad, and macaroni and cheese.


I was saying the same. In your example there must be a comma before the 
first and because there is a further and in the last course.

In your formulas case you have only 3 courses:
(1)
(2)
and
(3)

so that
(1)
(2)
, and
(3)

would be wrong, because there is only one course behind the and and 
there is no further and inside the last course.


I recently had the same discussion with our English LyX manual proof 
reader who's working for a publishing company.


regards Uwe

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Bruce Pourciau]

On Apr 19, 2010, at 4:18 PM, Uwe Stöhr wrote:


Am 19.04.2010 22:57, schrieb Marshall Feldman:

(By the way in English there is no comma before the and if the  
part

after the and is the last enumeration in a sentence; like in
A, B, C and D are letters.)


The following comes from the /Chicago Manual of Style/, 15th ed.,
section 6.18:

When a conjunction joins the last two elements in a series, a comma
-- known as the serial or series comma or the Oxford comma -- should
appear before the conjunction. Chicago strongly recommends this
widely practiced usage, blessed by Fowler and other authorities (see
bibliog. 1.2), since it prevents ambiguity.

Here's an example of what the CMS is talking about:

The meal consisted of soup, salad, and macaroni and cheese.


I was saying the same. In your example there must be a comma before  
the

first and because there is a further and in the last course.
In your formulas case you have only 3 courses:
(1)
(2)
and
(3)

so that
(1)
(2)
, and
(3)

would be wrong, because there is only one course behind the and and
there is no further and inside the last course.

I recently had the same discussion with our English LyX manual proof
reader who's working for a publishing company.

regards Uwe


The advice given by the Chicago Manual of Style does not depend on  
there being a further and in the last course. To reduce the chance  
of ambiguity, they recommend inserting the Oxford comma whenever a  
conjunction joins the last two elements in a series. Here's a  
humorous example in a book dedication (from wikipedia):


To my parents, Ayn Rand and God.
To my parents, Ayn Rand, and God.

But the Oxford comma can also introduce ambiguity:

My mother, Ayn Rand, and God.

In the punctuation world, there's no general agreement on the use of  
the Oxford comma, just various organizations going one way of the other.


Bruce

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[rgheck]

On 04/19/2010 04:57 PM, Marshall Feldman wrote:


Here's an example of what the CMS is talking about:

The meal consisted of soup, salad, and macaroni and cheese.


Of course, the better known case is the panda, who eats, shoots and leaves.

rh

Formatting numbered equations

[Marshall Feldman]

Hello,

I have several questions regarding numbered equations:

  1. How does one add punctuation to numbered equations?
  2. How does one make the equations be part of a paragraph that begins
 before and continues after them?
  3. How does one continue a numbered equation across multiple lines?

For example:
_

Three of the most often quoted elementary mathematical
   equations are

   2 + 2 = 4(1),
   C = 2 x pi x r  (2), and
   A = (1/2) b x h   (3).

   As you can see, Equation 2 is the most complex.

_
In the above example, I can't figure out how to add the commas, period, 
and conjunction adjacent to the equation numbers. Also notice that the 
sentence beginning with "As" is part of the paragraph beginning with 
"Three." I can't get Lyx to format them right. The sentence beginning 
with "Three" is indented because it starts a paragraph. When I add 
anything after an equation number, LyX automatically treats it as a new 
paragraph. So in the above example, the line beginning with "As you can" 
is treated as the start of a new paragraph and indented.


Regarding my third question, I have a long equation that should span 
multiple lines. Instead, LyX keeps it on one line that runs off the 
right side of the page, when it should look like:


   5 = 1 + 5 = 2 + 3 = 3 + 2 = 4 + 1 = 10/2
  = 50/10 = 100/20   (4)

Thanks for your help.

Marsh Feldman

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[rgheck]

On 04/19/2010 02:25 PM, Marshall Feldman wrote:

Hello,

I have several questions regarding numbered equations:

  1. How does one add punctuation to numbered equations?
  2. How does one make the equations be part of a paragraph that begins
 before and continues after them?
  3. How does one continue a numbered equation across multiple lines?


That's a lot of questions. ;-)


For example:
_ 



Three of the most often quoted elementary mathematical
   equations are

   2 + 2 = 4(1),
   C = 2 x pi x r  (2), and
   A = (1/2) b x h   (3).

   As you can see, Equation 2 is the most complex.

_ 

In the above example, I can't figure out how to add the commas, 
period, and conjunction adjacent to the equation numbers.


If you're using an equation array or something of the sort to format 
this, then you cannot add punctuation after the labels. There simply 
isn't any way to do this, so far as I know, not unless you define (or 
find) your own environments that allow it. An option is to turn on the 
"fleqn" option by putting "fleqn" in the Options field under 
Document>Settings>Document Class>Custom. This moves the numbers to the 
left, and then you can add the text in the usual way. Alternatively, 
change your syntax. "These are three...:".


Also notice that the sentence beginning with "As" is part of the 
paragraph beginning with "Three." I can't get Lyx to format them 
right. The sentence beginning with "Three" is indented because it 
starts a paragraph. When I add anything after an equation number, LyX 
automatically treats it as a new paragraph. So in the above example, 
the line beginning with "As you can" is treated as the start of a new 
paragraph and indented.


I'm not sure I fully understand this, but compare the two paragraphs in 
the attached document. In the second case, where the paragraph is 
indented, there is a return after the formula. If you put the cursor at 
the beginning of "what" and backspace, you will delete that return.


Regarding my third question, I have a long equation that should span 
multiple lines. Instead, LyX keeps it on one line that runs off the 
right side of the page, when it should look like:


   5 = 1 + 5 = 2 + 3 = 3 + 2 = 4 + 1 = 10/2
  = 50/10 = 100/20   (4)

Thanks for your help.

You'll have to use something like the gather environment, or maybe an 
align environment, to format this correctly. Example in the file, again.


rh

#LyX 1.6.6svn created this file. For more info see http://www.lyx.org/
\lyxformat 345
\begin_document
\begin_header
\textclass paper
\begin_preamble
\usepackage{heck}
\end_preamble
\use_default_options false
\language english
\inputencoding auto
\font_roman times
\font_sans helvet
\font_typewriter courier
\font_default_family default
\font_sc false
\font_osf false
\font_sf_scale 100
\font_tt_scale 100

\graphics default
\paperfontsize 11
\spacing single
\use_hyperref false
\papersize letterpaper
\use_geometry false
\use_amsmath 1
\use_esint 0
\cite_engine natbib_authoryear
\use_bibtopic false
\paperorientation portrait
\leftmargin 1in
\topmargin 1in
\rightmargin 1in
\bottommargin 1in
\secnumdepth 3
\tocdepth 3
\paragraph_separation indent
\defskip smallskip
\quotes_language english
\papercolumns 1
\papersides 1
\paperpagestyle plain
\tracking_changes false
\output_changes false
\author "" 
\author "" 
\end_header

\begin_body

\begin_layout Standard
this.
\begin_inset Formula \begin{gather}
a=b\\
b=a\end{gather}

\end_inset

that.
 and now more
\begin_inset Formula \begin{gather}
a=b\\
b=a\end{gather}

\end_inset


\end_layout

\begin_layout Standard
what happened? Uh oh.
\begin_inset Formula \[
a=b=c=d=e=f=g=h=i=j=k=l=m=n=o=p=q=r=s=t=u=v=w=x=y=z=0=1=2=3=4=5=6=7=8=9=0\]

\end_inset

Let's fix that.
\begin_inset Formula \begin{align*}
a & =b=c=d=e=f=g=h=i=j=k=l\\
 & =m=n=o=p=q=r=s=t=u=v=w\\
 & =x=y=z=0=1=2=3=4=5=6=7=8=9=0\end{align*}

\end_inset

Much better.
\end_layout

\end_body
\end_document

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Uwe Stöhr]

Am 19.04.2010 20:25, schrieb Marshall Feldman:


I have several questions regarding numbered equations:


At first, please have a look at LyX's Math manual that you find in LyX's 
help menu. This will give you many info and answers.



1. How does one add punctuation to numbered equations?


What do you mean here?


2. How does one make the equations be part of a paragraph that begins
before and continues after them?


I also don't understand what you mean here. If you are in a paragraph 
and press Ctrl+Shift+m you get a displayed formula that is part of this 
paragraph. (If you want to have an inline equation, press only Ctrl+m 
(omit the Shift key).)



3. How does one continue a numbered equation across multiple lines?

>

2 + 2 = 4 (1),
C = 2 x pi x r (2), and
A = (1/2) b x h (3).

In the above example, I can't figure out how to add the commas, period,
and conjunction adjacent to the equation numbers.


The equation number is the last character of an equation line, according 
to ISO norms. So you need to place the phrase "add" into a separate 
line. This can be done by either


- using the command \intertext, as described in the Math manual
- use two equations as in the attached example file

The latter is the usual method.

(By the way in English there is no comma before the "and" if the part 
after the "and" is the last enumeration in a sentence; like in

"A, B, C and D are letters.")


Also notice that the
sentence beginning with "As" is part of the paragraph beginning with
"Three."


Everything is one paragraph if you don't press Enter after of before the 
equations. In the attached file there is only one paragraph.



Regarding my third question, I have a long equation that should span
multiple lines. Instead, LyX keeps it on one line that runs off the
right side of the page, when it should look like:

5 = 1 + 5 = 2 + 3 = 3 + 2 = 4 + 1 = 10/2
= 50/10 = 100/20 (4)


You are responsible for line breaks in equations. Possible methods are 
described in the Math manual.


regards Uwe


newfile3.lyx
Description: application/lyx

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Paul Rubin]

Marshall Feldman  writes:

> 
> I have several questions regarding numbered equations:
> 
>1. How does one add punctuation to numbered equations?

Inside the equations, you add punctuation the usual way. After the equation
numbers, you don't add punctuation.  If you somehow succeed, the gods of
typography will smite you mightily.  I don't think I've ever seen a book or
journal contain punctuation after the equation numbers.

>2. How does one make the equations be part of a paragraph that begins
>   before and continues after them?

Type the initial text, then C-S-M or Insert > Math > (some equation environment)
without hitting enter first. That makes the math environment part of the same
paragraph as the preceding text. Upon conclusion of the math stuff, use the
right arrow or space bar to escape the math environment (or click just outside
it) and keep typing (again, without hitting enter) -- the additional text will
automatically flow to the next line without indentation, continuing the same
paragraph.

If you insert the equation as a display equation
>3. How does one continue a numbered equation across multiple lines?

Help > Math, section 18.

/Paul

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Marshall Feldman]

Thanks to everyone. I'll have to look at the Math manual.

I do, however, want to add one thing:

On 4/19/2010 4:09 PM, Uwe Stöhr wrote:


(By the way in English there is no comma before the "and" if the part 
after the "and" is the last enumeration in a sentence; like in

"A, B, C and D are letters.")


The following comes from the /Chicago Manual of Style/, 15th ed., 
section 6.18:


   When a conjunction joins the last two elements in a series, a comma
   -- known as the serial or series comma or the Oxford comma -- should
   appear before the conjunction. Chicago strongly recommends this
   widely practiced usage, blessed by Fowler and other authorities (see
   bibliog. 1.2), since it prevents ambiguity.

Here's an example of what the CMS is talking about:

"The meal consisted of soup, salad, and macaroni and cheese."

Thanks to the commas we know there are three courses, the last being 
"macaroni and cheese," rather than four, including "macaroni" as the 
third and "cheese" as the fourth.


Thanks again!
Marsh Feldman

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Uwe Stöhr]

Am 19.04.2010 22:57, schrieb Marshall Feldman:


(By the way in English there is no comma before the "and" if the part
after the "and" is the last enumeration in a sentence; like in
"A, B, C and D are letters.")


The following comes from the /Chicago Manual of Style/, 15th ed.,
section 6.18:

When a conjunction joins the last two elements in a series, a comma
-- known as the serial or series comma or the Oxford comma -- should
appear before the conjunction. Chicago strongly recommends this
widely practiced usage, blessed by Fowler and other authorities (see
bibliog. 1.2), since it prevents ambiguity.

Here's an example of what the CMS is talking about:

"The meal consisted of soup, salad, and macaroni and cheese."


I was saying the same. In your example there must be a comma before the 
first "and" because there is a further "and" in the last course.

In your formulas case you have only 3 courses:
(1)
(2)
and
(3)

so that
(1)
(2)
, and
(3)

would be wrong, because there is only one course behind the "and" and 
there is no further "and" inside the last course.


I recently had the same discussion with our English LyX manual proof 
reader who's working for a publishing company.


regards Uwe

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[Bruce Pourciau]

On Apr 19, 2010, at 4:18 PM, Uwe Stöhr wrote:


Am 19.04.2010 22:57, schrieb Marshall Feldman:

(By the way in English there is no comma before the "and" if the  
part

after the "and" is the last enumeration in a sentence; like in
"A, B, C and D are letters.")


The following comes from the /Chicago Manual of Style/, 15th ed.,
section 6.18:

When a conjunction joins the last two elements in a series, a comma
-- known as the serial or series comma or the Oxford comma -- should
appear before the conjunction. Chicago strongly recommends this
widely practiced usage, blessed by Fowler and other authorities (see
bibliog. 1.2), since it prevents ambiguity.

Here's an example of what the CMS is talking about:

"The meal consisted of soup, salad, and macaroni and cheese."


I was saying the same. In your example there must be a comma before  
the

first "and" because there is a further "and" in the last course.
In your formulas case you have only 3 courses:
(1)
(2)
and
(3)

so that
(1)
(2)
, and
(3)

would be wrong, because there is only one course behind the "and" and
there is no further "and" inside the last course.

I recently had the same discussion with our English LyX manual proof
reader who's working for a publishing company.

regards Uwe


The advice given by the Chicago Manual of Style does not depend on  
there being a further "and" in the last course. To reduce the chance  
of ambiguity, they recommend inserting the Oxford comma whenever "a  
conjunction joins the last two elements in a series." Here's a  
humorous example in a book dedication (from wikipedia):


To my parents, Ayn Rand and God.
To my parents, Ayn Rand, and God.

But the Oxford comma can also introduce ambiguity:

My mother, Ayn Rand, and God.

In the punctuation world, there's no general agreement on the use of  
the Oxford comma, just various organizations going one way of the other.


Bruce

Re: Formatting numbered equations

[rgheck]

On 04/19/2010 04:57 PM, Marshall Feldman wrote:


Here's an example of what the CMS is talking about:

"The meal consisted of soup, salad, and macaroni and cheese."


Of course, the better known case is the panda, who eats, shoots and leaves.

rh

formatting numbered equations

[Ehud Kaplan]

/When all else fails, read the manual--/
So I did, and found how to prevent Lyx from centering numbered equations:
use the fleqn option in the Document Class under Settings.
This left-justifies the equations, which is not really what I wanted, 
but it prevents the breaking up of the equation that bothered me before.


EK

formatting numbered equations

[Ehud Kaplan]

/When all else fails, read the manual--/
So I did, and found how to prevent Lyx from centering numbered equations:
use the fleqn option in the Document Class under Settings.
This left-justifies the equations, which is not really what I wanted, 
but it prevents the breaking up of the equation that bothered me before.


EK

formatting numbered equations

[Ehud Kaplan]

/"When all else fails, read the manual"--/
So I did, and found how to prevent Lyx from centering numbered equations:
use the fleqn option in the Document Class under Settings.
This left-justifies the equations, which is not really what I wanted, 
but it prevents the breaking up of the equation that bothered me before.


EK