Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
Johnatahn,
Ebay is another good source, not sure exactly what you have to go through
these days in Sweden to get things. If it's the level converter you are
having issues with let me know. They are super tiny and I think I paid $20
for 50 of them. You could get a Christmas Card with TTL to RS232 joy.
On the CP/M emulation front - I've been using the z88dk
https://z88dk.org/site/ for most of my stuff lately. Seems to play very
nicely with everything I'm doing and contains some cross compiling
environments specifically for Tandy and other retros I use. The disk utils
work great with the D88 image files I'm using on the Epson. I'll take a
look at the one you suggested though, looks interesting. Thanks!
Brian
On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 4:06 AM jonathan.y...@telia.com <
jonathan.y...@telia.com> wrote:
> Hi Brian,
>
> Thanks for the details. Looks like the level shifter board is the key to
> the size, but I'll confess I never thought of mounting a DB 25 directly on
> the case of the pi (purchased or otherwise). I looked around and those
> boards are available, just need to decide for the best way to purchase one
> (I'm in the Sweden so orders from outside the EU get hit with import duty
> AND a handling charge).
>
> I've used Pareg Patel's z80 instruction set emulator for emulating CPM
> under Unix and I've run it on several environments with no hiccups (AIX,
> Digital, and Linux of course).
>
> Jonathan
>
> Original Message
> From : bbrin...@gmail.com
> Date : 2023-12-13 - 22:34 (CEST)
> To : m...@bitchin100.com
> Subject : Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
>
> Haha - Glad you like it Joshua if I do happen to make more or improve on
> this one I'll let you know. I don't exactly have ADD but what I do seem to
> have is the inability to control what my current interests are and recently
> it's been playing with CP/M on the M100, PX-8 and building up a CP/M
> emulation environment on the TanPi. That was going great till I managed to
> get my hands on one of the MiniNDPs Brian K White made and now I'm all
> about his recent 512K upgrade. Never thought I'd get to play with an NDP so
> this is exciting stuff.
>
> I have a WP-2 and have tried to use the TanPi on it, but usually ended up
> frustrated with the lack of needed keys. When doing unixy stuff having
> pipes, curly braces, back ticks etc are handy. The M100 seems to have
> everything I need, although you do have to know to hit shift GRPH - to do a
> pipe and GRPH ( for { etc.
>
> I like ROM-View 80 but for me it's not enough of a payoff to have to
> reconfigure the local terminal settings to accommodate the new layout. The
> way I use the TanPi is primarily for content creation and syncing. I will
> write documents either with a real editor or just by typing cat > file.txt
> and typing away with CTRL-C to stop. Then sync the files with my local
> storage or the cloud when I have WiFi. If I need to do something really
> heavy I'll use an external screen or my VNC session with my phone.
>
> A lot of times when I'm at home I will ssh into my TanPi from my desktop
> and can drag/drop files over SSH, use the real keyboard and monitor for
> stuff and it's quite handy.
>
> It's a fun toy.
>
> Brian
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 1:29 PM Joshua O'Keefe < maj...@nachomountain.com>
> wrote:
>
>> > On Dec 13, 2023, at 6:22 AM, Brian Brindle < bbrin...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > My whole setup is a total kludge / hack that I never expected to use
>> long term. I was just doing a POC and built the whole thing in about 10
>> minutes with stuff I had laying around but here we are almost five years
>> later...
>>
>> Brian, you may consider this rig a kludge, but I'm jealous and think it's
>> gorgeous. Using the T as a portable terminal with a perfectly capable tiny
>> Linux box cleverly attached is a great hack. I wish I had one of these! A
>> 9-pin WP-2 version—what with the 80-column display—would be amazing.
>>
>> Now that I think about it, have you tried using either one of the
>> 80-column software setups, like ROM-View 80 or Ultrascreen100? It might
>> make for an even more pleasant terminal experience.
>>
>> Gosh, I'm tempted to ask if you'd slap another one together in your
>> copious free time!
>
>
>
>
Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
BKW - is it worth it? Haha - that's an interesting thought process right there. This is what I do to entertain myself so value of time and parts is subjective. I'm gonna buy ten times the needed parts, build several revisions of something and proudly display them all! If we are gonna go explore "is it worth it" I think it's important to look at one of the reasons why getting our hands on a NDP was so difficult to begin with. What exactly are we going todo with them once we have them? That's a question for Future Brian though, not me since Current Brian doesn't yet have one. I like the practical approach of adding U8 to your design. Woz would approve. In the world of solving problems that no one has by creating features no one needs I do wonder how this is going to perform when data needs to span both banks or needs to be copied from one bank to another. More of a playing with it than an actual situation that needs to be addressed. Don't know if you play with any of the Epson hardware or not but I recently got my hands on an Epson PX-8 128K "smart memory" expansion board. It's got a whole Z80 in it that acts as the MMU. The system can then treat it as just an I/O addressable device and it handles everything else. But what do you get for a computer that has 3 processors already? Another processor for memory! The C64 had the GEORAM 512K memory expander and they use to make two registers in the upper memory address space to expand the address space available to the 6510. If you read from those address spaces on the computer they would return random values but when the decode logic did it's thing it would pull index from those two memory spaces. Just neat stuff all the way around, but what you were talking about recently has me curious, we should be able to access known memory locations on the MiniNDP with some ML calls in basic pretty easily. Then be able to bootstrap RAM.COM. I saw Paul G. write a few things about it and even make reference to the idea that read-rom (or whatever the .co was) could be loaded with some modification.. We should be able to send an I/O READ command and peek at the address location we want. This seems like a fun thing to play with. But thanks for making a NDP I didn't have to pay tons for and fits in my pocket! Brian On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 5:55 PM Brian K. White wrote: > Is it worth trying to come up with some surgery bodge procedure to > upgrade a 256K unit to 512? > > It's a very small change and although there is an added part and it's > tiny and not easy to solder wires to, it's probably actually possible to > cut a few traces and add the new part with fine wire-wrap wire and glue > it all down. > > I think the new part (LVC1G79) can even be soldered to the board pretty > much right where it is on the new board instead of dead-bug, because two > of the pins are VBUS & GND, and they are on opposite corners of the > package, and both are available on the pcb in the right spots already > just by scratching the soldermask pretty much right where the part goes > on the now board. Angled a little but hey whatever. So that not only > connects 2 of the 5 pins, it mounts the part as if there were a footprint. > > Two more pins have short easy bodge wire runs to nearby exposed pins > with no need to cut any traces or anything. Those are /BLOCK and > BUS_A10. Pin 1 goes over to connector pin 16 and pin 2 goes over to U4 > pin 14. Just add the wires to existing exposed legs, no cutting traces > or lifting legs. > > That just leaves pin 4 A18, which needs a trace cut on the back side of > the board, and a wire run from pin 4 to sram pin 6. The trace to cut is > the one that ends with a via right in the D in NODE on the back side, > it's a thin trace that runs down towards the connector, and transitions > to a fat trace before going under the connector. Break the thin section, > do not break the fat section. > > And actually since we're not soldering to a footprint, you can buy a > larger package version of the part so the lags are a easy to solder > wires to. It's available in SOT-23-5/SOT-753/SC-74A which should be dead > easy. > > Ok well I guess I just did the thing I was asking if it was worth doing. > > > But, it's probably not much worse or maybe even easier to just > transplant all the parts from a built 256k to a new 512k board. That's > what I did. I didn't bother with the caps or resistors but all the chips > I desoldered with chipquick, cleaned the low-melt off with wick, and > soldered to the new board. > > In one sense it's silly to spend that much time on parts that add up to > a couple bucks, your time is worth more, but on the other hand if you > didn't buy 100 of each part and you've built a few along the way > developing... it's hard to look at a board full of parts and just toss > it rather than scavenge the parts. The math does not justify it at all > since I'm not broke, plus the chipquick and kimwipes and flux-off isn't > free, but I just can not make
Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
Hi Brian,
Thanks for the details. Looks like the level shifter board is the key to the
size, but I'll confess I never thought of mounting a DB 25 directly on the case
of the pi (purchased or otherwise). I looked around and those boards are
available, just need to decide for the best way to purchase one (I'm in the
Sweden so orders from outside the EU get hit with import duty AND a handling
charge).
I've used Pareg Patel's z80 instruction set emulator for emulating CPM under
Unix and I've run it on several environments with no hiccups (AIX, Digital, and
Linux of course).
Jonathan
Original Message
>From : bbrin...@gmail.com
Date : 2023-12-13 - 22:34 (CEST)
To : m...@bitchin100.com
Subject : Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
Haha - Glad you like it Joshua if I do happen to make more or improve on this
one I'll let you know. I don't exactly have ADD but what I do seem to have is
the inability to control what my current interests are and recently it's been
playing with CP/M on the M100, PX-8 and building up a CP/M emulation
environment on the TanPi. That was going great till I managed to get my hands
on one of the MiniNDPs Brian K White made and now I'm all about his recent 512K
upgrade. Never thought I'd get to play with an NDP so this is exciting stuff.
I have a WP-2 and have tried to use the TanPi on it, but usually ended up
frustrated with the lack of needed keys. When doing unixy stuff having pipes,
curly braces, back ticks etc are handy. The M100 seems to have everything I
need, although you do have to know to hit shift GRPH - to do a pipe and GRPH (
for { etc.
I like ROM-View 80 but for me it's not enough of a payoff to have to
reconfigure the local terminal settings to accommodate the new layout. The way
I use the TanPi is primarily for content creation and syncing. I will write
documents either with a real editor or just by typing cat > file.txt and typing
away with CTRL-C to stop. Then sync the files with my local storage or the
cloud when I have WiFi. If I need to do something really heavy I'll use an
external screen or my VNC session with my phone.
A lot of times when I'm at home I will ssh into my TanPi from my desktop and
can drag/drop files over SSH, use the real keyboard and monitor for stuff and
it's quite handy.
It's a fun toy.
Brian
On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 1:29 PM Joshua O'Keefe <
maj...@nachomountain.com> wrote:
> On Dec 13, 2023, at 6:22 AM, Brian Brindle <
bbrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My whole setup is a total kludge / hack that I never expected to use long
> term. I was just doing a POC and built the whole thing in about 10 minutes
> with stuff I had laying around but here we are almost five years later...
Brian, you may consider this rig a kludge, but I'm jealous and think it's
gorgeous. Using the T as a portable terminal with a perfectly capable tiny
Linux box cleverly attached is a great hack. I wish I had one of these! A
9-pin WP-2 version—what with the 80-column display—would be amazing.
Now that I think about it, have you tried using either one of the 80-column
software setups, like ROM-View 80 or Ultrascreen100? It might make for an even
more pleasant terminal experience.
Gosh, I'm tempted to ask if you'd slap another one together in your copious
free time!
Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
Is it worth trying to come up with some surgery bodge procedure to
upgrade a 256K unit to 512?
It's a very small change and although there is an added part and it's
tiny and not easy to solder wires to, it's probably actually possible to
cut a few traces and add the new part with fine wire-wrap wire and glue
it all down.
I think the new part (LVC1G79) can even be soldered to the board pretty
much right where it is on the new board instead of dead-bug, because two
of the pins are VBUS & GND, and they are on opposite corners of the
package, and both are available on the pcb in the right spots already
just by scratching the soldermask pretty much right where the part goes
on the now board. Angled a little but hey whatever. So that not only
connects 2 of the 5 pins, it mounts the part as if there were a footprint.
Two more pins have short easy bodge wire runs to nearby exposed pins
with no need to cut any traces or anything. Those are /BLOCK and
BUS_A10. Pin 1 goes over to connector pin 16 and pin 2 goes over to U4
pin 14. Just add the wires to existing exposed legs, no cutting traces
or lifting legs.
That just leaves pin 4 A18, which needs a trace cut on the back side of
the board, and a wire run from pin 4 to sram pin 6. The trace to cut is
the one that ends with a via right in the D in NODE on the back side,
it's a thin trace that runs down towards the connector, and transitions
to a fat trace before going under the connector. Break the thin section,
do not break the fat section.
And actually since we're not soldering to a footprint, you can buy a
larger package version of the part so the lags are a easy to solder
wires to. It's available in SOT-23-5/SOT-753/SC-74A which should be dead
easy.
Ok well I guess I just did the thing I was asking if it was worth doing.
But, it's probably not much worse or maybe even easier to just
transplant all the parts from a built 256k to a new 512k board. That's
what I did. I didn't bother with the caps or resistors but all the chips
I desoldered with chipquick, cleaned the low-melt off with wick, and
soldered to the new board.
In one sense it's silly to spend that much time on parts that add up to
a couple bucks, your time is worth more, but on the other hand if you
didn't buy 100 of each part and you've built a few along the way
developing... it's hard to look at a board full of parts and just toss
it rather than scavenge the parts. The math does not justify it at all
since I'm not broke, plus the chipquick and kimwipes and flux-off isn't
free, but I just can not make myself not scavenge those parts!
My REX Classic is on revision 30 or so by now, and I have 3 or 4 rexs
that have had their chips transplanted like 10 times, and so far
everything has seemed to survive all that accumulated solder hot time
and ultrasonic cleaner time. Everything is still working anyway.
--
bkw
On 12/13/23 16:34, Brian Brindle wrote:
Haha - Glad you like it Joshua if I do happen to make more or improve on
this one I'll let you know. I don't exactly have ADD but what I do seem
to have is the inability to control what my current interests are and
recently it's been playing with CP/M on the M100, PX-8 and building up a
CP/M emulation environment on the TanPi. That was going great till I
managed to get my hands on one of the MiniNDPs Brian K White made and
now I'm all about his recent 512K upgrade. Never thought I'd get to play
with an NDP so this is exciting stuff.
I have a WP-2 and have tried to use the TanPi on it, but usually ended
up frustrated with the lack of needed keys. When doing unixy stuff
having pipes, curly braces, back ticks etc are handy. The M100 seems to
have everything I need, although you do have to know to hit shift GRPH -
to do a pipe and GRPH ( for { etc.
I like ROM-View 80 but for me it's not enough of a payoff to have to
reconfigure the local terminal settings to accommodate the new layout.
The way I use the TanPi is primarily for content creation and syncing. I
will write documents either with a real editor or just by typing cat >
file.txt and typing away with CTRL-C to stop. Then sync the files with
my local storage or the cloud when I have WiFi. If I need to do
something really heavy I'll use an external screen or my VNC session
with my phone.
A lot of times when I'm at home I will ssh into my TanPi from my desktop
and can drag/drop files over SSH, use the real keyboard and monitor for
stuff and it's quite handy.
It's a fun toy.
Brian
On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 1:29 PM Joshua O'Keefe > wrote:
> On Dec 13, 2023, at 6:22 AM, Brian Brindle mailto:bbrin...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> My whole setup is a total kludge / hack that I never expected to
use long term. I was just doing a POC and built the whole thing in
about 10 minutes with stuff I had laying around but here we are
almost five years later...
Brian, you may consider this rig a
Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
> On Dec 13, 2023, at 1:34 PM, Brian Brindle wrote: > > building up a CP/M emulation environment on the TanPi Feel free to reach out about this off-list. I've done a fair bit of fooling around with the various CP/M emulation environments and have found RunCPM to work *really* well as a daily driver CP/M subsystem. Happy to talk about that.
Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
Haha - Glad you like it Joshua if I do happen to make more or improve on
this one I'll let you know. I don't exactly have ADD but what I do seem to
have is the inability to control what my current interests are and recently
it's been playing with CP/M on the M100, PX-8 and building up a CP/M
emulation environment on the TanPi. That was going great till I managed to
get my hands on one of the MiniNDPs Brian K White made and now I'm all
about his recent 512K upgrade. Never thought I'd get to play with an NDP so
this is exciting stuff.
I have a WP-2 and have tried to use the TanPi on it, but usually ended up
frustrated with the lack of needed keys. When doing unixy stuff having
pipes, curly braces, back ticks etc are handy. The M100 seems to have
everything I need, although you do have to know to hit shift GRPH - to do a
pipe and GRPH ( for { etc.
I like ROM-View 80 but for me it's not enough of a payoff to have to
reconfigure the local terminal settings to accommodate the new layout. The
way I use the TanPi is primarily for content creation and syncing. I will
write documents either with a real editor or just by typing cat > file.txt
and typing away with CTRL-C to stop. Then sync the files with my local
storage or the cloud when I have WiFi. If I need to do something really
heavy I'll use an external screen or my VNC session with my phone.
A lot of times when I'm at home I will ssh into my TanPi from my desktop
and can drag/drop files over SSH, use the real keyboard and monitor for
stuff and it's quite handy.
It's a fun toy.
Brian
On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 1:29 PM Joshua O'Keefe
wrote:
> > On Dec 13, 2023, at 6:22 AM, Brian Brindle wrote:
> > My whole setup is a total kludge / hack that I never expected to use
> long term. I was just doing a POC and built the whole thing in about 10
> minutes with stuff I had laying around but here we are almost five years
> later...
>
> Brian, you may consider this rig a kludge, but I'm jealous and think it's
> gorgeous. Using the T as a portable terminal with a perfectly capable tiny
> Linux box cleverly attached is a great hack. I wish I had one of these! A
> 9-pin WP-2 version—what with the 80-column display—would be amazing.
>
> Now that I think about it, have you tried using either one of the
> 80-column software setups, like ROM-View 80 or Ultrascreen100? It might
> make for an even more pleasant terminal experience.
>
> Gosh, I'm tempted to ask if you'd slap another one together in your
> copious free time!
Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 3:30 AM Brian Brindle wrote: > I had this flagged as a flow control issue, guess it sort of is but what I > was remembering is the T200 using the DTR signal for chip select on the > tone generator. > Hmm, now that rings a bell. (Ba-dump-TI). Maybe that's why it was working for us... I doubt we care about DTR in HTERM other than to turn on DSR and then ignore it. But then there's no "enabling" hardware flow control on the Model 100 either. It's just a signal you can check with an I/O instruction. Other than DTR which is more of connection/peer check than flow control. -- John.
Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
> On Dec 13, 2023, at 6:22 AM, Brian Brindle wrote: > My whole setup is a total kludge / hack that I never expected to use long > term. I was just doing a POC and built the whole thing in about 10 minutes > with stuff I had laying around but here we are almost five years later... Brian, you may consider this rig a kludge, but I'm jealous and think it's gorgeous. Using the T as a portable terminal with a perfectly capable tiny Linux box cleverly attached is a great hack. I wish I had one of these! A 9-pin WP-2 version—what with the 80-column display—would be amazing. Now that I think about it, have you tried using either one of the 80-column software setups, like ROM-View 80 or Ultrascreen100? It might make for an even more pleasant terminal experience. Gosh, I'm tempted to ask if you'd slap another one together in your copious free time!
Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
Hi Jonathan, My whole setup is a total kludge / hack that I never expected to use long term. I was just doing a POC and built the whole thing in about 10 minutes with stuff I had laying around but here we are almost five years later... One day I'll get off my butt and make a proper 3d printed case etc. I'll provide some amazon links to similar stuff I used but shop around I'm sure you'll find better prices. I was building contact tracing devices during Covid so had a surplus of Pi Zero's and these cases: https://www.amazon.com/Vilros-Raspberry-Zero-Compatible-Transparent/dp/B08ZDPNM4H I cut a hole in it with a file, drilled two holes for the screw mounts. I used a standard bulk-head mount DB-25 Pin male connector, cut all the pins off the backside so they were flush, used some small gage wire to connect to a Mini RS232 to TTL MAX232 Convert board like these: https://www.amazon.com/KOOBOOK-MAX3232-Converter-Adaptor-Transfer/dp/B07VNLVJ57 Wired up TX/RX to the RIN1 and ROUT1 of the converter board, then wired the DIN1 / DOUT1 to the proper GPIO ports on the PI soldering directly to the pads. Grabbed 3V off the Rpi to power the converter. (3V ran cooler than trying to run off 5V. 5V got super hot.) Here are some photos of the unit including a bonus photo of me on the bus being all cyber-punk with my M102 and my heads up display. It was pandemic times so forgive the mask. https://niedobry.com/mod100/tanpi/ On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 7:06 AM jonathan.y...@telia.com < jonathan.y...@telia.com> wrote: > Hello, > > I know it is starting to be off-topic, but some details about how you did > the pi (I assume a zero-w) and the case with the level-shifter would be > nice. I've done this with other components, but I've never gotten anything > nearly so small. I have a pi-hat with a level shifter, and it basically > doubled the size of pi zero. Something this small and that would plug > right into the serial port of the m100 would be great. > > Jonathan > > >Original Message > >From : run@rin.run > >Date : 2023-12-13 - 02:11 (CEST) > >To : m...@bitchin100.com > >Subject : Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102 > > > >Wow Brian! > > > >This setup with the Pi attached to the back looks amazing. It's attached > >so cleanly as well. I appreciate you doing the `stty' at the end, > >hopefully mirroring your setup will help me get things working better on > >my end. > > > >I do wonder if the fact that you are using the Pi's GPIO pins to do > >serial instead of a USB adapter is part of why your system is working so > >well. If you have a USB adapter floating around, I'd be really curious > >if you got the same results with that connected to the PI instead of > >connecting it directly. > > > >Thanks again for sharing your experience getting this working. > > > >On Tue, Dec 12, 2023 at 05:42:28PM -0500, Brian Brindle wrote: > >>This has come up in discussion a few times so I wanted to show that > >>19.2Kbps on the Tandy 100 is possible with only software flow > control. > >> > >>Here is a video of me creating a 500 line 40 col file that is 20KB, > >>transferring it to the M102 and back again using the 19.2Kbps serial > >>connection. It gets slowed down due to the screen being so slow > making > >>it absolutely of no value to be running at those speeds but does > >>demonstrate that flow control can be used on a Linux device in this > >>situation. > >> > >>Hardware flow control would work best and is what I would recommend > but > >>I wanted a device that would work on a stock M100/102 and on a M200 > >>where the flow control lines do not work properly. > >> > >>It's apparently really hard to film, type and remember what to say > so I > >>apologize for that.. > >> > >>[1]https://youtu.be/BGxx__Zr1O4 > >> > >>Brian > >> > >> References > >> > >>1. https://youtu.be/BGxx__Zr1O4 > > >
Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
Hello, I know it is starting to be off-topic, but some details about how you did the pi (I assume a zero-w) and the case with the level-shifter would be nice. I've done this with other components, but I've never gotten anything nearly so small. I have a pi-hat with a level shifter, and it basically doubled the size of pi zero. Something this small and that would plug right into the serial port of the m100 would be great. Jonathan >Original Message >From : run@rin.run >Date : 2023-12-13 - 02:11 (CEST) >To : m...@bitchin100.com >Subject : Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102 > >Wow Brian! > >This setup with the Pi attached to the back looks amazing. It's attached >so cleanly as well. I appreciate you doing the `stty' at the end, >hopefully mirroring your setup will help me get things working better on >my end. > >I do wonder if the fact that you are using the Pi's GPIO pins to do >serial instead of a USB adapter is part of why your system is working so >well. If you have a USB adapter floating around, I'd be really curious >if you got the same results with that connected to the PI instead of >connecting it directly. > >Thanks again for sharing your experience getting this working. > >On Tue, Dec 12, 2023 at 05:42:28PM -0500, Brian Brindle wrote: >>This has come up in discussion a few times so I wanted to show that >>19.2Kbps on the Tandy 100 is possible with only software flow control. >> >>Here is a video of me creating a 500 line 40 col file that is 20KB, >>transferring it to the M102 and back again using the 19.2Kbps serial >>connection. It gets slowed down due to the screen being so slow making >>it absolutely of no value to be running at those speeds but does >>demonstrate that flow control can be used on a Linux device in this >>situation. >> >>Hardware flow control would work best and is what I would recommend but >>I wanted a device that would work on a stock M100/102 and on a M200 >>where the flow control lines do not work properly. >> >>It's apparently really hard to film, type and remember what to say so I >>apologize for that.. >> >>[1]https://youtu.be/BGxx__Zr1O4 >> >>Brian >> >> References >> >>1. https://youtu.be/BGxx__Zr1O4 >
Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
> Also T200 not working with hardware flow control? It used to. Steve ported HTERM to it. I do recall we had issues with the > 19200bps baud rates on the T200. Well, know how part of the theme of this thread is things not happening the way we remember them? I had this flagged as a flow control issue, guess it sort of is but what I was remembering is the T200 using the DTR signal for chip select on the tone generator. On the M100/102 if you disable hardware flow control they will ignore DTR as expected. The T200, regardless of how you set flow control, wanders off and doesn't come back until you present it with DTR. So in this case, my setup will not work unless you loop back DTR with a jumper. Brian On Tue, Dec 12, 2023 at 9:25 PM Daryl Tester < dt-m...@handcraftedcomputers.com.au> wrote: > On 13/12/23 09:39, John R. Hogerhuis wrote: > > > But what I recollect and what happened are not always the same thing. > > Oh man, I hear you there, especially the more ... "seasoned" I get. > > Cheers, >--dt >
Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
On 13/12/23 09:39, John R. Hogerhuis wrote: But what I recollect and what happened are not always the same thing. Oh man, I hear you there, especially the more ... "seasoned" I get. Cheers, --dt
Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
"But what I recollect and what happened are not always the same thing." Ah yes... more and more, more and more every day... On Tue, Dec 12, 2023 at 6:09 PM John R. Hogerhuis wrote: > > > > On Tue, Dec 12, 2023 at 3:00 PM Mike Stein wrote: >> >> I've never had any problems at 19.2K using Windows so, as John >> suggests. there may be Linux-specific issues. >> >> There are buffers in most if not all USB-RS232 adapters and also in >> the program on the PC at the other end, and sometimes these need to be >> tuned a bit. When I send a 25K file from TeraTerm to an M100, TeraTerm >> finishes in 1/2 minute or so, but the M100 still receives data for >> another minute. >> >> And don't forget that TEXT is usually effectively faster for >> transferring files since it doesn't have to display or scroll. >> >> m >> > > Well Brian is seeing xon/xoff working fine with Linux at high speed with his > setup. > > Maybe time to try the experiments again to figure out what is different. > > Also T200 not working with hardware flow control? It used to. Steve ported > HTERM to it. I do recall we had issues with the > 19200bps baud rates on the > T200. > > But what I recollect and what happened are not always the same thing. > > -- John.
Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
Thanks Runrin, I was pretty happy with how the Pi Zero version turned out. I've had this setup in some form or another for several years. The original version of this was on a larger raspberry pi so I have used USB to serial adapters without issues. Initially the Zero was run off of a USB to serial adapter as well until one day I thought I might be able to stuff a MAX232 inside the tiny case with a bulkhead mount RS323 and it worked. So presently you can use my Zero on the M100 either via ttyUSB0 or ttyS0. Results are the same. I do recommend using a FT232RL based converter or an authentic Prolific PL2303 if you can find it. That way you know you are getting something with correct voltage levels. Brian On Tue, Dec 12, 2023 at 8:13 PM runrin wrote: > Wow Brian! > > This setup with the Pi attached to the back looks amazing. It's attached > so cleanly as well. I appreciate you doing the `stty' at the end, > hopefully mirroring your setup will help me get things working better on > my end. > > I do wonder if the fact that you are using the Pi's GPIO pins to do > serial instead of a USB adapter is part of why your system is working so > well. If you have a USB adapter floating around, I'd be really curious > if you got the same results with that connected to the PI instead of > connecting it directly. > > Thanks again for sharing your experience getting this working. > > On Tue, Dec 12, 2023 at 05:42:28PM -0500, Brian Brindle wrote: > >This has come up in discussion a few times so I wanted to show that > >19.2Kbps on the Tandy 100 is possible with only software flow control. > > > >Here is a video of me creating a 500 line 40 col file that is 20KB, > >transferring it to the M102 and back again using the 19.2Kbps serial > >connection. It gets slowed down due to the screen being so slow making > >it absolutely of no value to be running at those speeds but does > >demonstrate that flow control can be used on a Linux device in this > >situation. > > > >Hardware flow control would work best and is what I would recommend > but > >I wanted a device that would work on a stock M100/102 and on a M200 > >where the flow control lines do not work properly. > > > >It's apparently really hard to film, type and remember what to say so > I > >apologize for that.. > > > >[1]https://youtu.be/BGxx__Zr1O4 > > > >Brian > > > > References > > > >1. https://youtu.be/BGxx__Zr1O4 >
Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
Wow Brian! This setup with the Pi attached to the back looks amazing. It's attached so cleanly as well. I appreciate you doing the `stty' at the end, hopefully mirroring your setup will help me get things working better on my end. I do wonder if the fact that you are using the Pi's GPIO pins to do serial instead of a USB adapter is part of why your system is working so well. If you have a USB adapter floating around, I'd be really curious if you got the same results with that connected to the PI instead of connecting it directly. Thanks again for sharing your experience getting this working. On Tue, Dec 12, 2023 at 05:42:28PM -0500, Brian Brindle wrote: >This has come up in discussion a few times so I wanted to show that >19.2Kbps on the Tandy 100 is possible with only software flow control. > >Here is a video of me creating a 500 line 40 col file that is 20KB, >transferring it to the M102 and back again using the 19.2Kbps serial >connection. It gets slowed down due to the screen being so slow making >it absolutely of no value to be running at those speeds but does >demonstrate that flow control can be used on a Linux device in this >situation. > >Hardware flow control would work best and is what I would recommend but >I wanted a device that would work on a stock M100/102 and on a M200 >where the flow control lines do not work properly. > >It's apparently really hard to film, type and remember what to say so I >apologize for that.. > >[1]https://youtu.be/BGxx__Zr1O4 > >Brian > > References > >1. https://youtu.be/BGxx__Zr1O4
Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
Thanks Mike, all good suggestions for sure but I was aiming to make the worst possible situation to push the flow control as hard as I could. John, before you questioned it I was certain, but now my memory may be failing me but I seem to recall the T200 stealing the flow controlines to run the latch logic for the barcode port? I'll need to go back through my notes on that one though. I could be confusing it for another retro computer. On Tue, Dec 12, 2023, 6:09 PM John R. Hogerhuis wrote: > > > On Tue, Dec 12, 2023 at 3:00 PM Mike Stein wrote: > >> I've never had any problems at 19.2K using Windows so, as John >> suggests. there may be Linux-specific issues. >> >> There are buffers in most if not all USB-RS232 adapters and also in >> the program on the PC at the other end, and sometimes these need to be >> tuned a bit. When I send a 25K file from TeraTerm to an M100, TeraTerm >> finishes in 1/2 minute or so, but the M100 still receives data for >> another minute. >> >> And don't forget that TEXT is usually effectively faster for >> transferring files since it doesn't have to display or scroll. >> >> m >> >> > Well Brian is seeing xon/xoff working fine with Linux at high speed with > his setup. > > Maybe time to try the experiments again to figure out what is different. > > Also T200 not working with hardware flow control? It used to. Steve ported > HTERM to it. I do recall we had issues with the > 19200bps baud rates on > the T200. > > But what I recollect and what happened are not always the same thing. > > -- John. >
Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
On Tue, Dec 12, 2023 at 3:00 PM Mike Stein wrote: > I've never had any problems at 19.2K using Windows so, as John > suggests. there may be Linux-specific issues. > > There are buffers in most if not all USB-RS232 adapters and also in > the program on the PC at the other end, and sometimes these need to be > tuned a bit. When I send a 25K file from TeraTerm to an M100, TeraTerm > finishes in 1/2 minute or so, but the M100 still receives data for > another minute. > > And don't forget that TEXT is usually effectively faster for > transferring files since it doesn't have to display or scroll. > > m > > Well Brian is seeing xon/xoff working fine with Linux at high speed with his setup. Maybe time to try the experiments again to figure out what is different. Also T200 not working with hardware flow control? It used to. Steve ported HTERM to it. I do recall we had issues with the > 19200bps baud rates on the T200. But what I recollect and what happened are not always the same thing. -- John.
Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
BTW, another tip: if you're sending a text file to the M100, send it without Line Feeds (i.e. only CR) if possible; that will save time since there's no scrolling, and that's how the M100 sends files anyway. On Tue, Dec 12, 2023 at 5:43 PM Brian Brindle wrote: > > This has come up in discussion a few times so I wanted to show that 19.2Kbps > on the Tandy 100 is possible with only software flow control. > > Here is a video of me creating a 500 line 40 col file that is 20KB, > transferring it to the M102 and back again using the 19.2Kbps serial > connection. It gets slowed down due to the screen being so slow making it > absolutely of no value to be running at those speeds but does demonstrate > that flow control can be used on a Linux device in this situation. > > Hardware flow control would work best and is what I would recommend but I > wanted a device that would work on a stock M100/102 and on a M200 where the > flow control lines do not work properly. > > It's apparently really hard to film, type and remember what to say so I > apologize for that.. > > https://youtu.be/BGxx__Zr1O4 > > Brian >
Re: [M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
I've never had any problems at 19.2K using Windows so, as John suggests. there may be Linux-specific issues. There are buffers in most if not all USB-RS232 adapters and also in the program on the PC at the other end, and sometimes these need to be tuned a bit. When I send a 25K file from TeraTerm to an M100, TeraTerm finishes in 1/2 minute or so, but the M100 still receives data for another minute. And don't forget that TEXT is usually effectively faster for transferring files since it doesn't have to display or scroll. m On Tue, Dec 12, 2023 at 5:43 PM Brian Brindle wrote: > > This has come up in discussion a few times so I wanted to show that 19.2Kbps > on the Tandy 100 is possible with only software flow control. > > Here is a video of me creating a 500 line 40 col file that is 20KB, > transferring it to the M102 and back again using the 19.2Kbps serial > connection. It gets slowed down due to the screen being so slow making it > absolutely of no value to be running at those speeds but does demonstrate > that flow control can be used on a Linux device in this situation. > > Hardware flow control would work best and is what I would recommend but I > wanted a device that would work on a stock M100/102 and on a M200 where the > flow control lines do not work properly. > > It's apparently really hard to film, type and remember what to say so I > apologize for that.. > > https://youtu.be/BGxx__Zr1O4 > > Brian >
[M100] 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 102
This has come up in discussion a few times so I wanted to show that 19.2Kbps on the Tandy 100 is possible with only software flow control. Here is a video of me creating a 500 line 40 col file that is 20KB, transferring it to the M102 and back again using the 19.2Kbps serial connection. It gets slowed down due to the screen being so slow making it absolutely of no value to be running at those speeds but does demonstrate that flow control can be used on a Linux device in this situation. Hardware flow control would work best and is what I would recommend but I wanted a device that would work on a stock M100/102 and on a M200 where the flow control lines do not work properly. It's apparently really hard to film, type and remember what to say so I apologize for that.. https://youtu.be/BGxx__Zr1O4 Brian
