Re: [M100] Anti-static foam types
If I have a lot of an IC I leave them in the tubes, but they can be awkward to ship. For most ICS and even some small parts I prefer the pink anti-static foam, both the semi-rigid type and the flexible types; on a flat 12x12 sheet for example they're much easier to store and also to ship once cut to size. e.g.: https://canada.foambymail.com/product/anti-static-polyethylene-foam-1-7lb-pink.html Grainger sells 1/8x12x12 sheets 2 for C$3.46 https://www.grainger.ca/en/product/FOAMSHEET-ANTISTATIC-1-8X12X12-PK2/p/CFM1001002 Newark sells black foam sheets, probably better stuff these days: https://canada.newark.com/multicomp-pro/038-0100/conductive-chip-foam-127-x-228/dp/87P0221?gad_source=1=Cj0KCQjwqP2pBhDMARIsAJQ0CzqxdbWNoAt6mshLYqKD6rPkk8OnO4OstxqzOpwJbxvK6nxwVvSVNfwaAuq0EALw_wcB_kwcid=AL!8472!3x!!=_dc|pcrid||plid||kword||match||slid||product|87P0221|pgrid||ptaid||=KNC-GCA-Shopping-PMAX-CATCH-ALL-NEW-S39_price=true Stay away from Styrofoam except for non-sensitive parts like DIP switches etc.; it can actually _create_ static electricity, the last thing you want. As to the old black stuff I've had mixed experiences; generally I've had no issues with the flexible type, but pretty well all the rigid stuff I've come across has crumbled and very often has corroded or even eaten away IC pins, especially gold pins on white ceramic chips like the old AYx- modem and custom ROM chips. But YMMV... m On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 7:16 PM Peter Noeth wrote: > I would NOT recommend the black carbonized foam for storage. We used to > use that type where I worked as a Component Level computer tech for our > "Component Inventory" many decades ago. It will turn the legs of I.C.s and > transistors black after a few months if you stick them into the foam, > requiring cleaning with a mild abrasive before soldering (risking static > damage). It may be a solution for shipment only. > > The other foam looks like High Density Styrofoam, as used in the building > trades for wall insulation. I have seen it both light blue and pink, used > for the purposes you mention, and have never trusted it as styrofoam is > inherently very staticy, even with anti-static additives. I have seen some > people wrap that foam in aluminum foil first before poking any leaded > components into it. This may be a shipment only solution. > > I have always used the plastic anti static tubes (rails) that the > manufacturers sell their components in, or the anti-static poly and > mylar bags that DigiKey and other distributors use. With "through hole" > components not being as popular as they once were, and "surface mount" > components now the "norm", your best solution would be the anti-static poly > and mylar bags easily found with an Internet search. > > Regards, > > PeterN > > On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 2:42 PM wrote: > >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 14:25:24 -0700 >> From: Gary Weber >> To: M100 >> Subject: [M100] Anti-static foam types >> Message-ID: >> < >> caajazkoqdyapx1godpsvutedor+x1npum1isuhrv+udoman...@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Question for anyone out there familiar -- >> >> There's a few kinds of antistatic foams out there that I've come across >> which have had DIP chips stuck into them for storage, and the ones I >> currently have on hand is the black stuff which is very porous, and this >> other very stiff stuff that almost has the feeling of styrofoam. (Not >> bendable.) >> >> Here's the two I have on hand: >> [image: image.png] >> >> Is anyone else familiar with the light colored antistatic "hard" foam >> that's in the right of this photo? What's it called and where would you >> obtain more of it? It seems to protect a DIP chip's pins much better for >> long term storage or shipping and I'd like to have some on hand. >> >> Thanks, >> >> -- >> Gary Weber >> g...@web8201.com >> -- next part -- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://lists.bitchin100.com/private.cgi/m100-bitchin100.com/attachments/20231030/b21a215a/attachment.htm >> > >> -- next part -- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: image.png >> Type: image/png >> Size: 557591 bytes >> Desc: not available >> URL: < >> http://lists.bitchin100.com/private.cgi/m100-bitchin100.com/attachments/20231030/b21a215a/attachment.png >> > >> >>
Re: [M100] Anti-static foam types
I think the corrosion problem depends first on the metal composition of the IC pin, then the temperature and atmosphere in storage. I recently pulled ICs from boxed garage storage since 1983 and noticed the following when I reorganized them: Motorola Ceramic ICs with square gold pins (purple ceramic color) experienced some corrosion and stickiness of the crumbly black foam they were shipped with. They were a challenge to clean up. But the Motorola plastic DIP chips (RTL logic) with rounded gold pins were in perfect condition after brushing off the same crumbled foam. Intel Ceramic ICs with tin pins (grey ceramic color) were in perfect condition even though the black foam they were shipped in turned to crumbly clumps. Hitachi and Fairchild plastic DIP ICs with tin pins in plastic antistatic tubes had darkened pins. Hitachi chip pins were almost black. This made soldering to the pin a little more difficult. But I didn't bother cleaning off the tarnish and they worked fine in a socket. I've been using them with no issues. Texas Instruments plastic DIP ICs with tin pins in plastic antistatic tubes had bright and shiny pins like they were new. I use both tubes and new foam these days and don't worry about it. I think either are good for indoor temperature and humidity. The corrosion problem definitely has happened but I think it's a problem confined to certain old chips and antistatic materials. Jerry On Mon, Oct 30, 2023, 6:53 PM wrote: > I have chips that have been stuck in the black anti-static foam for years > and the legs are still nice and shiny. (Just checked). Perhaps it is a > particular brand of foam? > > > > Jeff Birt > > > > > > *From:* M100 *On Behalf Of *Peter > Noeth > *Sent:* Monday, October 30, 2023 6:16 PM > *To:* Model 100 Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [M100] Anti-static foam types > > > > I would NOT recommend the black carbonized foam for storage. We used to > use that type where I worked as a Component Level computer tech for our > "Component Inventory" many decades ago. It will turn the legs of I.C.s and > transistors black after a few months if you stick them into the foam, > requiring cleaning with a mild abrasive before soldering (risking static > damage). It may be a solution for shipment only. > > > > The other foam looks like High Density Styrofoam, as used in the building > trades for wall insulation. I have seen it both light blue and pink, used > for the purposes you mention, and have never trusted it as styrofoam is > inherently very staticy, even with anti-static additives. I have seen some > people wrap that foam in aluminum foil first before poking any leaded > components into it. This may be a shipment only solution. > > > > I have always used the plastic anti static tubes (rails) that the > manufacturers sell their components in, or the anti-static poly and > mylar bags that DigiKey and other distributors use. With "through hole" > components not being as popular as they once were, and "surface mount" > components now the "norm", your best solution would be the anti-static poly > and mylar bags easily found with an Internet search. > > > > Regards, > > > > PeterN > > > > On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 2:42 PM wrote: > > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 14:25:24 -0700 > From: Gary Weber > To: M100 > Subject: [M100] Anti-static foam types > Message-ID: > < > caajazkoqdyapx1godpsvutedor+x1npum1isuhrv+udoman...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Question for anyone out there familiar -- > > There's a few kinds of antistatic foams out there that I've come across > which have had DIP chips stuck into them for storage, and the ones I > currently have on hand is the black stuff which is very porous, and this > other very stiff stuff that almost has the feeling of styrofoam. (Not > bendable.) > > Here's the two I have on hand: > [image: image.png] > > Is anyone else familiar with the light colored antistatic "hard" foam > that's in the right of this photo? What's it called and where would you > obtain more of it? It seems to protect a DIP chip's pins much better for > long term storage or shipping and I'd like to have some on hand. > > Thanks, > > -- > Gary Weber > g...@web8201.com > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.bitchin100.com/private.cgi/m100-bitchin100.com/attachments/20231030/b21a215a/attachment.htm > > > -- next part -- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image.png > Type: image/png > Size: 557591 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://lists.bitchin100.com/private.cgi/m100-bitchin100.com/attachments/20231030/b21a215a/attachment.png > > > >
Re: [M100] Anti-static foam types
On 10/30/2023 6:51 PM, bir...@soigeneris.com wrote: I have chips that have been stuck in the black anti-static foam for years and the legs are still nice and shiny. (Just checked). Perhaps it is a particular brand of foam? ditto here. While I think the tub idea is probably the best (creates a Faraday cage around the ICs), I'd recommend steering clear of the foam on the right (the lighter colored stuff). Though some of of is static dissipative, it can be hard to discern, and it could just be regular foam that has no static dissipative coating. The black foam is conducting foam (a bit of carbon baked into the foam), which keeps all pins at the same voltage potential. Jeff Birt
Re: [M100] Anti-static foam types
Same thing here, Jeff. I've got a storage-case which has the black foam where I've had some DIP chips for probably 20 years, no residue so far. There must be different brands/types. On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 4:53 PM wrote: > I have chips that have been stuck in the black anti-static foam for years > and the legs are still nice and shiny. (Just checked). Perhaps it is a > particular brand of foam? > > > > Jeff Birt > > > > > > *From:* M100 *On Behalf Of *Peter > Noeth > *Sent:* Monday, October 30, 2023 6:16 PM > *To:* Model 100 Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [M100] Anti-static foam types > > > > I would NOT recommend the black carbonized foam for storage. We used to > use that type where I worked as a Component Level computer tech for our > "Component Inventory" many decades ago. It will turn the legs of I.C.s and > transistors black after a few months if you stick them into the foam, > requiring cleaning with a mild abrasive before soldering (risking static > damage). It may be a solution for shipment only. > > > > The other foam looks like High Density Styrofoam, as used in the building > trades for wall insulation. I have seen it both light blue and pink, used > for the purposes you mention, and have never trusted it as styrofoam is > inherently very staticy, even with anti-static additives. I have seen some > people wrap that foam in aluminum foil first before poking any leaded > components into it. This may be a shipment only solution. > > > > I have always used the plastic anti static tubes (rails) that the > manufacturers sell their components in, or the anti-static poly and > mylar bags that DigiKey and other distributors use. With "through hole" > components not being as popular as they once were, and "surface mount" > components now the "norm", your best solution would be the anti-static poly > and mylar bags easily found with an Internet search. > > > > Regards, > > > > PeterN > > > > On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 2:42 PM wrote: > > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 14:25:24 -0700 > From: Gary Weber > To: M100 > Subject: [M100] Anti-static foam types > Message-ID: > < > caajazkoqdyapx1godpsvutedor+x1npum1isuhrv+udoman...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Question for anyone out there familiar -- > > There's a few kinds of antistatic foams out there that I've come across > which have had DIP chips stuck into them for storage, and the ones I > currently have on hand is the black stuff which is very porous, and this > other very stiff stuff that almost has the feeling of styrofoam. (Not > bendable.) > > Here's the two I have on hand: > [image: image.png] > > Is anyone else familiar with the light colored antistatic "hard" foam > that's in the right of this photo? What's it called and where would you > obtain more of it? It seems to protect a DIP chip's pins much better for > long term storage or shipping and I'd like to have some on hand. > > Thanks, > > -- > Gary Weber > g...@web8201.com > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.bitchin100.com/private.cgi/m100-bitchin100.com/attachments/20231030/b21a215a/attachment.htm > > > -- next part -- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image.png > Type: image/png > Size: 557591 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://lists.bitchin100.com/private.cgi/m100-bitchin100.com/attachments/20231030/b21a215a/attachment.png > > > >
Re: [M100] Anti-static foam types
Interesting. Yes, for shipping I've also used the tubes as well in the past. Just sometimes it's a pain to cut them to length for one or two chips. I just figured that high density styrofoam was actually anti-static, and if it isn't then I certainly don't want to use it. Thanks for the advice, Peter! Gary On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 4:16 PM Peter Noeth wrote: > I would NOT recommend the black carbonized foam for storage. We used to > use that type where I worked as a Component Level computer tech for our > "Component Inventory" many decades ago. It will turn the legs of I.C.s and > transistors black after a few months if you stick them into the foam, > requiring cleaning with a mild abrasive before soldering (risking static > damage). It may be a solution for shipment only. > > The other foam looks like High Density Styrofoam, as used in the building > trades for wall insulation. I have seen it both light blue and pink, used > for the purposes you mention, and have never trusted it as styrofoam is > inherently very staticy, even with anti-static additives. I have seen some > people wrap that foam in aluminum foil first before poking any leaded > components into it. This may be a shipment only solution. > > I have always used the plastic anti static tubes (rails) that the > manufacturers sell their components in, or the anti-static poly and > mylar bags that DigiKey and other distributors use. With "through hole" > components not being as popular as they once were, and "surface mount" > components now the "norm", your best solution would be the anti-static poly > and mylar bags easily found with an Internet search. > > Regards, > > PeterN > > On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 2:42 PM wrote: > >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 14:25:24 -0700 >> From: Gary Weber >> To: M100 >> Subject: [M100] Anti-static foam types >> Message-ID: >> < >> caajazkoqdyapx1godpsvutedor+x1npum1isuhrv+udoman...@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Question for anyone out there familiar -- >> >> There's a few kinds of antistatic foams out there that I've come across >> which have had DIP chips stuck into them for storage, and the ones I >> currently have on hand is the black stuff which is very porous, and this >> other very stiff stuff that almost has the feeling of styrofoam. (Not >> bendable.) >> >> Here's the two I have on hand: >> [image: image.png] >> >> Is anyone else familiar with the light colored antistatic "hard" foam >> that's in the right of this photo? What's it called and where would you >> obtain more of it? It seems to protect a DIP chip's pins much better for >> long term storage or shipping and I'd like to have some on hand. >> >> Thanks, >> >> -- >> Gary Weber >> g...@web8201.com >> -- next part -- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://lists.bitchin100.com/private.cgi/m100-bitchin100.com/attachments/20231030/b21a215a/attachment.htm >> > >> -- next part -- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: image.png >> Type: image/png >> Size: 557591 bytes >> Desc: not available >> URL: < >> http://lists.bitchin100.com/private.cgi/m100-bitchin100.com/attachments/20231030/b21a215a/attachment.png >> > >> >>
Re: [M100] Anti-static foam types
I have chips that have been stuck in the black anti-static foam for years and the legs are still nice and shiny. (Just checked). Perhaps it is a particular brand of foam? Jeff Birt From: M100 On Behalf Of Peter Noeth Sent: Monday, October 30, 2023 6:16 PM To: Model 100 Discussion Subject: Re: [M100] Anti-static foam types I would NOT recommend the black carbonized foam for storage. We used to use that type where I worked as a Component Level computer tech for our "Component Inventory" many decades ago. It will turn the legs of I.C.s and transistors black after a few months if you stick them into the foam, requiring cleaning with a mild abrasive before soldering (risking static damage). It may be a solution for shipment only. The other foam looks like High Density Styrofoam, as used in the building trades for wall insulation. I have seen it both light blue and pink, used for the purposes you mention, and have never trusted it as styrofoam is inherently very staticy, even with anti-static additives. I have seen some people wrap that foam in aluminum foil first before poking any leaded components into it. This may be a shipment only solution. I have always used the plastic anti static tubes (rails) that the manufacturers sell their components in, or the anti-static poly and mylar bags that DigiKey and other distributors use. With "through hole" components not being as popular as they once were, and "surface mount" components now the "norm", your best solution would be the anti-static poly and mylar bags easily found with an Internet search. Regards, PeterN On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 2:42 PM mailto:m100-requ...@lists.bitchin100.com> > wrote: Message: 1 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 14:25:24 -0700 From: Gary Weber mailto:g...@web8201.com> > To: M100 mailto:m100@lists.bitchin100.com> > Subject: [M100] Anti-static foam types Message-ID: mailto:caajazkoqdyapx1godpsvutedor%2bx1npum1isuhrv%2budomane%...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Question for anyone out there familiar -- There's a few kinds of antistatic foams out there that I've come across which have had DIP chips stuck into them for storage, and the ones I currently have on hand is the black stuff which is very porous, and this other very stiff stuff that almost has the feeling of styrofoam. (Not bendable.) Here's the two I have on hand: [image: image.png] Is anyone else familiar with the light colored antistatic "hard" foam that's in the right of this photo? What's it called and where would you obtain more of it? It seems to protect a DIP chip's pins much better for long term storage or shipping and I'd like to have some on hand. Thanks, -- Gary Weber g...@web8201.com <mailto:g...@web8201.com> -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.bitchin100.com/private.cgi/m100-bitchin100.com/attachments/20231030/b21a215a/attachment.htm> -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 557591 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://lists.bitchin100.com/private.cgi/m100-bitchin100.com/attachments/20231030/b21a215a/attachment.png>
Re: [M100] Anti-static foam types
I would NOT recommend the black carbonized foam for storage. We used to use that type where I worked as a Component Level computer tech for our "Component Inventory" many decades ago. It will turn the legs of I.C.s and transistors black after a few months if you stick them into the foam, requiring cleaning with a mild abrasive before soldering (risking static damage). It may be a solution for shipment only. The other foam looks like High Density Styrofoam, as used in the building trades for wall insulation. I have seen it both light blue and pink, used for the purposes you mention, and have never trusted it as styrofoam is inherently very staticy, even with anti-static additives. I have seen some people wrap that foam in aluminum foil first before poking any leaded components into it. This may be a shipment only solution. I have always used the plastic anti static tubes (rails) that the manufacturers sell their components in, or the anti-static poly and mylar bags that DigiKey and other distributors use. With "through hole" components not being as popular as they once were, and "surface mount" components now the "norm", your best solution would be the anti-static poly and mylar bags easily found with an Internet search. Regards, PeterN On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 2:42 PM wrote: > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 14:25:24 -0700 > From: Gary Weber > To: M100 > Subject: [M100] Anti-static foam types > Message-ID: > < > caajazkoqdyapx1godpsvutedor+x1npum1isuhrv+udoman...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Question for anyone out there familiar -- > > There's a few kinds of antistatic foams out there that I've come across > which have had DIP chips stuck into them for storage, and the ones I > currently have on hand is the black stuff which is very porous, and this > other very stiff stuff that almost has the feeling of styrofoam. (Not > bendable.) > > Here's the two I have on hand: > [image: image.png] > > Is anyone else familiar with the light colored antistatic "hard" foam > that's in the right of this photo? What's it called and where would you > obtain more of it? It seems to protect a DIP chip's pins much better for > long term storage or shipping and I'd like to have some on hand. > > Thanks, > > -- > Gary Weber > g...@web8201.com > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.bitchin100.com/private.cgi/m100-bitchin100.com/attachments/20231030/b21a215a/attachment.htm > > > -- next part -- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image.png > Type: image/png > Size: 557591 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://lists.bitchin100.com/private.cgi/m100-bitchin100.com/attachments/20231030/b21a215a/attachment.png > > > >
