Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[Scott McDonnell]

BTW, a member of the Commodore 64 community just hooked me up with a Suncom 
Icontroller for a decent price, so a project may happen soon. 

I have been loosely bouncing an idea around in my head for a graphic adventure 
game on the M100 that would fit well in the limits of the hardware. On that 
note, is anyone here aware of any graphics adventure projects already done? The 
idea bouncing around in my head is to match up the black and white of the M100 
by doing a Noir mystery or just something with the feeling of an old movie. 
Small, but compelling animations, some small cutscenes, and a UI that fits in 
with the M100. I haven’t fully hashed out the story yet, just kind of a visual 
concept in my head that plays out on my inner chalkboard.

Scott M.

From: _ Comet 
To: "m100@lists.bitchin100.com" ,
"m...@bitchin100.com" 
Subject: Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100
Message-ID: <539731455.653786.1622090653...@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

https://ftp.whtech.com/club100/doc/p100-9002.pdf

Article on adding a serial mouse to Model 100 in February 1990 Portable 100.
 
Comet 

On Sunday, January 10, 2021, 03:06:26 PM PST, Hiraghm  
wrote:  
 
 I have two Gravis Stinger joypads, (which are still available new on Amazon).
<https://www.amazon.com/Gravis-G43011-Stinger-Laptop-Game/dp/B0K4TR>

The thing about the Stinger is that it was designed to connect to the serial 
port, not the game port. Its purpose was to give laptop owners the ability to 
play games with joysticks on laptops with no gameport. They're very small, but 
they work okay.
At one time I wanted to write joystick drives for them for Irix to use with my 
O2; alas, I failed and no longer have my beloved O2.

I do, however, have example source code for a driver under linux... if I can 
find it.
It should work as a basis for writing a "driver" for the M100. At least info on 
how to talk to them.

Just checked; there's some info on gravis stinger joystick drivers for linux on 
the internet, too.
Again, I think they can be adapted for the M100

 ?Here's also an article on using an arduino to convert a regular joystick to a 
serial joystick, in linux.
<https://github.com/mcgurk/Linux-Arduino-Serial-Joystick>
I don't know if it can be adapted to work with the M100 or not.

I'd be equally interested in a way to adapt a serial mouse or preferably 
trackball or trackpad to work with the M100.

Would it be possible to adapt an Atari style joystick to the barcode port? 
Sounds to me like the method suggested for the parallel port would work for the 
barcode port. Or maybe a PC style joystick could be adapted to work with the 
cassette port? :D

On 1/4/2021 3:47 PM, m100-requ...@lists.bitchin100.com wrote:
> Message: 28
> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 12:33:14 -0500
> From: Scott McDonnell
> To:"m...@bitchin100.com"? 
> Subject: [M100] Joystick for the M100
> Message-ID:
> ??? 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> If I ever find one of these for a decent price again, I am thinking it might 
> be neat to hack one of these on to the M100. Probably need to tap into the 
> keyboard matrix. Anyone else do something similar to get a more intuitive use 
> of the arrow keys?
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Suncom-ICONtroller-Joystick-for-Commodore-64-128-Computer/154044424400?hash=item23ddc360d0:g:QDYAAOSweRhfNXC8
>
> https://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuzzblog_december17_4/car_sbd_111217_03.jpg

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[_ Comet]

https://ftp.whtech.com/club100/doc/p100-9002.pdf

Article on adding a serial mouse to Model 100 in February 1990 Portable 100.
 
Comet 

On Sunday, January 10, 2021, 03:06:26 PM PST, Hiraghm  
wrote:  
 
 I have two Gravis Stinger joypads, (which are still available new on Amazon).


The thing about the Stinger is that it was designed to connect to the serial 
port, not the game port. Its purpose was to give laptop owners the ability to 
play games with joysticks on laptops with no gameport. They're very small, but 
they work okay.
At one time I wanted to write joystick drives for them for Irix to use with my 
O2; alas, I failed and no longer have my beloved O2.

I do, however, have example source code for a driver under linux... if I can 
find it.
It should work as a basis for writing a "driver" for the M100. At least info on 
how to talk to them.

Just checked; there's some info on gravis stinger joystick drivers for linux on 
the internet, too.
Again, I think they can be adapted for the M100

  Here's also an article on using an arduino to convert a regular joystick to a 
serial joystick, in linux.

I don't know if it can be adapted to work with the M100 or not.

I'd be equally interested in a way to adapt a serial mouse or preferably 
trackball or trackpad to work with the M100.

Would it be possible to adapt an Atari style joystick to the barcode port? 
Sounds to me like the method suggested for the parallel port would work for the 
barcode port. Or maybe a PC style joystick could be adapted to work with the 
cassette port? :D

On 1/4/2021 3:47 PM, m100-requ...@lists.bitchin100.com wrote:
> Message: 28
> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 12:33:14 -0500
> From: Scott McDonnell
> To:"m...@bitchin100.com"  
> Subject: [M100] Joystick for the M100
> Message-ID:
>     
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> If I ever find one of these for a decent price again, I am thinking it might 
> be neat to hack one of these on to the M100. Probably need to tap into the 
> keyboard matrix. Anyone else do something similar to get a more intuitive use 
> of the arrow keys?
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Suncom-ICONtroller-Joystick-for-Commodore-64-128-Computer/154044424400?hash=item23ddc360d0:g:QDYAAOSweRhfNXC8
>
> https://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuzzblog_december17_4/car_sbd_111217_03.jpg
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
  

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[mcdonnell.junk]

I was actually pretty surprised at the lack of hardware projects for the M100 
in the various magazines back then, even the Portable 100 mag.I wonder if it 
was the cost of the M100 that kept people from tinkering with it back 
then.Scott M.
 Original message From: Peter Vollan  
Date: 1/6/21  2:56 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: m...@bitchin100.com Subject: Re: [M100] 
Joystick for the M100 Right, ISTR that  a serial mouse can be usedOn Wed, 6 Jan 
2021 at 07:54, MikeS  wrote:






I haven't seen a joystick article for the Model T 
but there's a mouse driver in Feb/90 P.8
 
m

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lee Kelley 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2021 2:30 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [M100] Joystick for the 
  M100
  
  
  I can't quote the issue and page but I do recall there 
  being an article in Portable 100 magazine about connecting a joystick to the 
  Model T computers.
  
  


  
  Virus-free. 
www.avg.com 
  
  On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:41 PM Daryl Tester 
   
  wrote:
  On 5/1/21 6:24 am, Jim Anderson wrote:> As I 
recall, the way it worked was that the five switches (directional> 
switches and fire) were wired to the first five output bits, and the> 
common return from all five switches was wired to BUSY.  To poll 
the> joystick you'd cycle through outputting ASCII 1, 2, 4, 8, and 
16, and> read BUSY each time.  Whichever bits resulted in 
assertion of BUSY> meant that switch was currently 
closed.Probably need diodes in there as well, to stop from 
inadvertantlydriving an output low and high at the same time if the 
joystickhad more than one switch closed (e.g. up and 
fire).Cheers,   --dt
  -- 
  
  "I will never 
  in my lifetime make a film that cannot be seen by the whole 
  family"  Arther P. 
  Jacobs

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[Peter Vollan]

Right, ISTR that  a serial mouse can be used

On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 07:54, MikeS  wrote:

> I haven't seen a joystick article for the Model T but there's a mouse
> driver in Feb/90 P.8
>
> m
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Lee Kelley 
> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2021 2:30 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100
>
> I can't quote the issue and page but I do recall there being an article in
> Portable 100 magazine about connecting a joystick to the Model T computers.
>
>
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail>
>  Virus-free.
> www.avg.com <#m_-7176192556295135549_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:41 PM Daryl Tester <
> dt-m...@handcraftedcomputers.com.au> wrote:
>
>> On 5/1/21 6:24 am, Jim Anderson wrote:
>>
>> > As I recall, the way it worked was that the five switches (directional
>> > switches and fire) were wired to the first five output bits, and the
>> > common return from all five switches was wired to BUSY.  To poll the
>> > joystick you'd cycle through outputting ASCII 1, 2, 4, 8, and 16, and
>> > read BUSY each time.  Whichever bits resulted in assertion of BUSY
>> > meant that switch was currently closed.
>>
>> Probably need diodes in there as well, to stop from inadvertantly
>> driving an output low and high at the same time if the joystick
>> had more than one switch closed (e.g. up and fire).
>>
>> Cheers,
>>--dt
>>
>
>
> --
> *"I will never in my lifetime make a film that cannot be seen by the whole
> family"*  Arther P. Jacobs
>
>

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[Stephen Adolph]

nice find on that!

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 10:54 AM MikeS  wrote:

> From Kim Holviala kim at holviala.com
> Wed Feb 23 2011
> Yup, got my side project, the Atari/Commodore joystick interface for
> M100 working reliably.
>
> This is a simple passive interface only requiring two connectors, some
> cable and five diodes. Total cost is under $10 including a case for the
> Sub-D9 connector.
>
> Schematic:
>
> LPT port   D9 male
> 3  PD0 --|<--- 1 UP
> 5  PD1 --|<--- 2 DOWN
> 7  PD2 --|<--- 3 LEFT
> 9  PD3 --|<--- 4 RIGHT
> 11 PD4 --|<--- 6 BUTTON
> 21 BUSY -- 8 GROUND
>
> Parts:
>
> 1  2x13 pin female flat cable connector (0.1" spacing)
> 1  D9 male connector (solder type)
> 1  D9 connector case
> 6" 26-pin flat cable (or at least 4 inches)
> 5  1N4148 (or similar)
>
> I used 1N4007 for the diodes, but using something physically smaller
> like 1N4148 is easier if you want to fit everything into the D9 case.
>
> Theory of operation:
>
> We're doing it all backwards. Instead of feeding ground through joystick
> port pin 8 and reading the directions from pins 1-4 and 6, we're feeding
> signals through 1-4 and 6 and reading the result from pin 8 (which is
> connected to BUSY in LPT port).
>
> Using with 100% Basic:
>
> This works (even though it shouldn't) but isn't very reliable. We're
> fighting with the keyboard interrupt, and quite often it hits between
> our OUT and IN messing up the readings.
>
> OUT 185,254:U=INP(187) AND 4
> OUT 185,253:D=INP(187) AND 4
> OUT 185,251:L=INP(187) AND 4
> OUT 185,247:R=INP(187) AND 4
> OUT 185,239:B=INP(187) AND 4
>
> Variables U/D/L/R and B now contain 0 if that particular direction is
> selected and 4 if the direction is not selected.
>
> Mostly Basic, but some assembly required:
>
> This version seems to be 100% reliable even though it doesn't disable
> interrupts between the assembler out and in.
>
> 10 CLS
> 20 A$=CHR$(211)+CHR$(185)+CHR$(219)+CHR$(187)+CHR$(119)+CHR$(201)
> 30 AS=PEEK(VARPTR(A$)+1)+(256*PEEK(VARPTR(A$)+2))
> 40 U%=0:D%=0:L%=0:R%=0:B%=0
> 50 CALL AS,254,VARPTR(U%):U%=U% AND 4
> 60 CALL AS,253,VARPTR(D%):D%=D% AND 4
> 70 CALL AS,251,VARPTR(L%):L%=L% AND 4
> 80 CALL AS,247,VARPTR(R%):R%=R% AND 4
> 90 CALL AS,239,VARPTR(B%):B%=B% AND 4
> 100 IF U%=0 THEN PRINT " U" ELSE PRINT " *"
> 110 IF L%=0 THEN PRINT "L "; ELSE PRINT "* ";
> 120 IF R%=0 THEN PRINT "R" ELSE PRINT "*"
> 130 IF D%=0 THEN PRINT " D" ELSE PRINT " *"
> 140 IF B%=0 THEN PRINT "BTN" ELSE PRINT " * "
> 150 PRINT CHR$(11);
> 160 GOTO 50
>
> The assembler code on line 20 is as follows (needs a bitmask in A,
> outputs joystick info to [HL]):
>
> out 185
> in 187
> mov m,a
> ret
>
> That's about it. Now back to the WiFi adapter...
>
>
> - Kim
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Brian White 
> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2021 7:16 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 2:55 PM Jim Anderson  wrote:
>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > For input, there are only 2 signals, BUSY and BUSY_N.  Each of these can
>> > be read independenty.
>>
>> As I recall, the way it worked was that the five switches (directional
>> switches and fire) were wired to the first five output bits, and the common
>> return from all five switches was wired to BUSY.  To poll the joystick
>> you'd cycle through outputting ASCII 1, 2, 4, 8, and 16, and read BUSY each
>> time.  Whichever bits resulted in assertion of BUSY meant that switch was
>> currently closed.
>>
>
>
> Nice.
>
> --
> bkw
>
>>

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[MikeS]

I haven't seen a joystick article for the Model T but there's a mouse driver in 
Feb/90 P.8

m
  - Original Message - 
  From: Lee Kelley 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2021 2:30 AM
  Subject: Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100


  I can't quote the issue and page but I do recall there being an article in 
Portable 100 magazine about connecting a joystick to the Model T computers.

   Virus-free. www.avg.com  



  On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:41 PM Daryl Tester 
 wrote:

On 5/1/21 6:24 am, Jim Anderson wrote:

> As I recall, the way it worked was that the five switches (directional
> switches and fire) were wired to the first five output bits, and the
> common return from all five switches was wired to BUSY.  To poll the
> joystick you'd cycle through outputting ASCII 1, 2, 4, 8, and 16, and
> read BUSY each time.  Whichever bits resulted in assertion of BUSY
> meant that switch was currently closed.

Probably need diodes in there as well, to stop from inadvertantly
driving an output low and high at the same time if the joystick
had more than one switch closed (e.g. up and fire).

Cheers,
   --dt





  -- 

  "I will never in my lifetime make a film that cannot be seen by the whole 
family"  Arther P. Jacobs

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[MikeS]

>From Kim Holviala kim at holviala.com 
Wed Feb 23 2011

Yup, got my side project, the Atari/Commodore joystick interface for 
M100 working reliably.

This is a simple passive interface only requiring two connectors, some 
cable and five diodes. Total cost is under $10 including a case for the 
Sub-D9 connector.

Schematic:

LPT port   D9 male
3  PD0 --|<--- 1 UP
5  PD1 --|<--- 2 DOWN
7  PD2 --|<--- 3 LEFT
9  PD3 --|<--- 4 RIGHT
11 PD4 --|<--- 6 BUTTON
21 BUSY -- 8 GROUND

Parts:

1  2x13 pin female flat cable connector (0.1" spacing)
1  D9 male connector (solder type)
1  D9 connector case
6" 26-pin flat cable (or at least 4 inches)
5  1N4148 (or similar)

I used 1N4007 for the diodes, but using something physically smaller 
like 1N4148 is easier if you want to fit everything into the D9 case.

Theory of operation:

We're doing it all backwards. Instead of feeding ground through joystick 
port pin 8 and reading the directions from pins 1-4 and 6, we're feeding 
signals through 1-4 and 6 and reading the result from pin 8 (which is 
connected to BUSY in LPT port).

Using with 100% Basic:

This works (even though it shouldn't) but isn't very reliable. We're 
fighting with the keyboard interrupt, and quite often it hits between 
our OUT and IN messing up the readings.

OUT 185,254:U=INP(187) AND 4
OUT 185,253:D=INP(187) AND 4
OUT 185,251:L=INP(187) AND 4
OUT 185,247:R=INP(187) AND 4
OUT 185,239:B=INP(187) AND 4

Variables U/D/L/R and B now contain 0 if that particular direction is 
selected and 4 if the direction is not selected.

Mostly Basic, but some assembly required:

This version seems to be 100% reliable even though it doesn't disable 
interrupts between the assembler out and in.

10 CLS
20 A$=CHR$(211)+CHR$(185)+CHR$(219)+CHR$(187)+CHR$(119)+CHR$(201)
30 AS=PEEK(VARPTR(A$)+1)+(256*PEEK(VARPTR(A$)+2))
40 U%=0:D%=0:L%=0:R%=0:B%=0
50 CALL AS,254,VARPTR(U%):U%=U% AND 4
60 CALL AS,253,VARPTR(D%):D%=D% AND 4
70 CALL AS,251,VARPTR(L%):L%=L% AND 4
80 CALL AS,247,VARPTR(R%):R%=R% AND 4
90 CALL AS,239,VARPTR(B%):B%=B% AND 4
100 IF U%=0 THEN PRINT " U" ELSE PRINT " *"
110 IF L%=0 THEN PRINT "L "; ELSE PRINT "* ";
120 IF R%=0 THEN PRINT "R" ELSE PRINT "*"
130 IF D%=0 THEN PRINT " D" ELSE PRINT " *"
140 IF B%=0 THEN PRINT "BTN" ELSE PRINT " * "
150 PRINT CHR$(11);
160 GOTO 50

The assembler code on line 20 is as follows (needs a bitmask in A, 
outputs joystick info to [HL]):

out 185
in 187
mov m,a
ret

That's about it. Now back to the WiFi adapter...


- Kim


 
  ----- Original Message - 
  From: Brian White 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2021 7:16 AM
  Subject: Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100





  On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 2:55 PM Jim Anderson  wrote:

> -Original Message-
> For input, there are only 2 signals, BUSY and BUSY_N.  Each of these can
> be read independenty.

As I recall, the way it worked was that the five switches (directional 
switches and fire) were wired to the first five output bits, and the common 
return from all five switches was wired to BUSY.  To poll the joystick you'd 
cycle through outputting ASCII 1, 2, 4, 8, and 16, and read BUSY each time.  
Whichever bits resulted in assertion of BUSY meant that switch was currently 
closed.





  Nice.


  -- 
  bkw

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[Brian White]

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 2:55 PM Jim Anderson  wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > For input, there are only 2 signals, BUSY and BUSY_N.  Each of these can
> > be read independenty.
>
> As I recall, the way it worked was that the five switches (directional
> switches and fire) were wired to the first five output bits, and the common
> return from all five switches was wired to BUSY.  To poll the joystick
> you'd cycle through outputting ASCII 1, 2, 4, 8, and 16, and read BUSY each
> time.  Whichever bits resulted in assertion of BUSY meant that switch was
> currently closed.
>


Nice.

-- 
bkw

>

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[Lee Kelley]

I can't quote the issue and page but I do recall there being an article in
Portable 100 magazine about connecting a joystick to the Model T computers.


Virus-free.
www.avg.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:41 PM Daryl Tester <
dt-m...@handcraftedcomputers.com.au> wrote:

> On 5/1/21 6:24 am, Jim Anderson wrote:
>
> > As I recall, the way it worked was that the five switches (directional
> > switches and fire) were wired to the first five output bits, and the
> > common return from all five switches was wired to BUSY.  To poll the
> > joystick you'd cycle through outputting ASCII 1, 2, 4, 8, and 16, and
> > read BUSY each time.  Whichever bits resulted in assertion of BUSY
> > meant that switch was currently closed.
>
> Probably need diodes in there as well, to stop from inadvertantly
> driving an output low and high at the same time if the joystick
> had more than one switch closed (e.g. up and fire).
>
> Cheers,
>--dt
>


-- 
*"I will never in my lifetime make a film that cannot be seen by the whole
family"*  Arther P. Jacobs

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[Daryl Tester]

On 5/1/21 6:24 am, Jim Anderson wrote:


As I recall, the way it worked was that the five switches (directional
switches and fire) were wired to the first five output bits, and the
common return from all five switches was wired to BUSY.  To poll the
joystick you'd cycle through outputting ASCII 1, 2, 4, 8, and 16, and
read BUSY each time.  Whichever bits resulted in assertion of BUSY
meant that switch was currently closed.


Probably need diodes in there as well, to stop from inadvertantly
driving an output low and high at the same time if the joystick
had more than one switch closed (e.g. up and fire).

Cheers,
  --dt

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[Jeffrey Birt]

Brilliant! A unique way around every problem.

Jeff Birt

-Original Message-
From: M100  On Behalf Of Jim Anderson
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 1:55 PM
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

> -Original Message-
> For input, there are only 2 signals, BUSY and BUSY_N.  Each of these 
> can be read independenty.

As I recall, the way it worked was that the five switches (directional
switches and fire) were wired to the first five output bits, and the common
return from all five switches was wired to BUSY.  To poll the joystick you'd
cycle through outputting ASCII 1, 2, 4, 8, and 16, and read BUSY each time.
Whichever bits resulted in assertion of BUSY meant that switch was currently
closed.







jim

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[Jim Anderson]

> -Original Message-
> For input, there are only 2 signals, BUSY and BUSY_N.  Each of these can
> be read independenty.

As I recall, the way it worked was that the five switches (directional switches 
and fire) were wired to the first five output bits, and the common return from 
all five switches was wired to BUSY.  To poll the joystick you'd cycle through 
outputting ASCII 1, 2, 4, 8, and 16, and read BUSY each time.  Whichever bits 
resulted in assertion of BUSY meant that switch was currently closed.







jim

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[Scott McDonnell]

Another way to go about it is like the NES joypad. Use a shift register to 
shift in the buttons. You would need a clock, a CS, and Digital input. So, two 
outputs and one input.

And of course a driver.

Scott M.

From: Tom Wilson
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 2:45 PM
To: M100 Mailing List
Subject: Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

The Centronics standard has 5 dedicated input status lines. And you only need 5 
signal pins for an Atari joystick. 

Is it possible to read the pins directly? If so, then it should be possible.

Tom Wilson
wilso...@gmail.com
(619)940-6311 
K6ABZ


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 11:42 AM Stephen Adolph  wrote:
m100 parallel port is output only except for the printer status lines.  GPO yes 
but not GPI...


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 2:39 PM Tom Wilson  wrote:
> Seems to me that somebody had a scheme a while back where the joystick 
> interfaced with the parallel port and status was polled that way (this avoids 
> having to build a custom interface).  

Yeah, we used to use the parallel port for a lot of things, back in the DOS 
days; it doesn't take much to make it an 8-bit GPIO, and I used to have a sound 
"card" that used the parallel port. 

I think there are just enough status lines to pull off using it for a joystick:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_port#/media/File:25_Pin_D-sub_pinout.svg


Tom Wilson
wilso...@gmail.com
(619)940-6311 
K6ABZ

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[Ken Pettit]

As Steve mentioned, the M100 parallel port is non-standard.  It has 
output buffers with series resistors on all of the data output pins.  
This means they cannot be used for either input or for any meanigful 
power harvesting.


For input, there are only 2 signals, BUSY and BUSY_N.  Each of these can 
be read independenty.


Ken

On 1/4/21 11:44 AM, Tom Wilson wrote:
The Centronics standard has 5 dedicated input status lines. And you 
only need 5 signal pins for an Atari joystick.


Is it possible to read the pins directly? If so, then it should be 
possible.


Tom Wilson
wilso...@gmail.com 
(619)940-6311
K6ABZ


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 11:42 AM Stephen Adolph > wrote:


m100 parallel port is output only except for the printer status
lines.  GPO yes but not GPI...


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 2:39 PM Tom Wilson mailto:wilso...@gmail.com>> wrote:

> Seems to me that somebody had a scheme a while back where
the joystick interfaced with the parallel port and status was
polled that way (this avoids having to build a custom interface).

Yeah, we used to use the parallel port for a lot of things,
back in the DOS days; it doesn't take much to make it an 8-bit
GPIO, and I used to have a sound "card" that used the parallel
port.

I think there are just enough status lines to pull off using
it for a joystick:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_port#/media/File:25_Pin_D-sub_pinout.svg

Tom Wilson
wilso...@gmail.com 
(619)940-6311
K6ABZ

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[Tom Wilson]

The Centronics standard has 5 dedicated input status lines. And you only
need 5 signal pins for an Atari joystick.

Is it possible to read the pins directly? If so, then it should be possible.

Tom Wilson
wilso...@gmail.com
(619)940-6311
K6ABZ


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 11:42 AM Stephen Adolph  wrote:

> m100 parallel port is output only except for the printer status lines.
> GPO yes but not GPI...
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 2:39 PM Tom Wilson  wrote:
>
>> > Seems to me that somebody had a scheme a while back where the joystick
>> interfaced with the parallel port and status was polled that way (this
>> avoids having to build a custom interface).
>>
>> Yeah, we used to use the parallel port for a lot of things, back in the
>> DOS days; it doesn't take much to make it an 8-bit GPIO, and I used to have
>> a sound "card" that used the parallel port.
>>
>> I think there are just enough status lines to pull off using it for a
>> joystick:
>>
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_port#/media/File:25_Pin_D-sub_pinout.svg
>>
>> Tom Wilson
>> wilso...@gmail.com
>> (619)940-6311
>> K6ABZ
>>
>>>
>>>

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[Stephen Adolph]

m100 parallel port is output only except for the printer status lines.  GPO
yes but not GPI...


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 2:39 PM Tom Wilson  wrote:

> > Seems to me that somebody had a scheme a while back where the joystick
> interfaced with the parallel port and status was polled that way (this
> avoids having to build a custom interface).
>
> Yeah, we used to use the parallel port for a lot of things, back in the
> DOS days; it doesn't take much to make it an 8-bit GPIO, and I used to have
> a sound "card" that used the parallel port.
>
> I think there are just enough status lines to pull off using it for a
> joystick:
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_port#/media/File:25_Pin_D-sub_pinout.svg
>
> Tom Wilson
> wilso...@gmail.com
> (619)940-6311
> K6ABZ
>
>>
>>

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[Tom Wilson]

> Seems to me that somebody had a scheme a while back where the joystick
interfaced with the parallel port and status was polled that way (this
avoids having to build a custom interface).

Yeah, we used to use the parallel port for a lot of things, back in the DOS
days; it doesn't take much to make it an 8-bit GPIO, and I used to have a
sound "card" that used the parallel port.

I think there are just enough status lines to pull off using it for a
joystick:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_port#/media/File:25_Pin_D-sub_pinout.svg

Tom Wilson
wilso...@gmail.com
(619)940-6311
K6ABZ

>
>

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[Jim Anderson]

> -Original Message-
> > The problem with an Atari style joystick is that it uses a common
> > ground. This means all of the keys to operate a game would need
> 
> His device was smart and interfaced with the system bus and was
> accessed via an IO port.

Seems to me that somebody had a scheme a while back where the joystick 
interfaced with the parallel port and status was polled that way (this avoids 
having to build a custom interface).







jim

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[Josh Malone]

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 2:21 PM Tom Wilson  wrote:
>
> The problem with an Atari style joystick is that it uses a common ground. 
> This means all of the keys to operate a game would need to be on the same row 
> or column. I don't know the matrix layout of the Model T's keyboard, so it 
> might not be possible to actually wire this to any rational control scheme.
>

His device was smart and interfaced with the system bus and was
accessed via an IO port.

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[Tom Wilson]

The problem with an Atari style joystick is that it uses a common ground.
This means all of the keys to operate a game would need to be on the same
row or column. I don't know the matrix layout of the Model T's keyboard, so
it might not be possible to actually wire this to any rational control
scheme.


Tom Wilson
wilso...@gmail.com
(619)940-6311
K6ABZ


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 11:12 AM Jeffrey Birt  wrote:

> I would think this could be done with an externally connected device and a
> small ‘driver’. Of course, I have never tried to do anything like this on
> an M100, so I have no real idea what I’m talking about. Just thinking of a
> driver that gets ‘hooked’ into the OS that can insert keystrokes into the
> key buffer.
>
>
>
> It would be interesting to know what more experienced M100 programmers
> think though.
>
>
>
> Jeff Birt
>
>
>
> *From:* M100  *On Behalf Of *Scott
> McDonnell
> *Sent:* Monday, January 4, 2021 11:33 AM
> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com
> *Subject:* [M100] Joystick for the M100
>
>
>
> If I ever find one of these for a decent price again, I am thinking it
> might be neat to hack one of these on to the M100. Probably need to tap
> into the keyboard matrix. Anyone else do something similar to get a more
> intuitive use of the arrow keys?
>
>
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Suncom-ICONtroller-Joystick-for-Commodore-64-128-Computer/154044424400?hash=item23ddc360d0:g:QDYAAOSweRhfNXC8
>
>
>
>
> https://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuzzblog_december17_4/car_sbd_111217_03.jpg
>
>
>

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[Josh Malone]

List member Peter Noeth showed off an Atari joystick interface for
M100 on the TRS-80 Trash Talk live show over the weekend. Hopefully
he'll be ready to share more details soon.

-Josh

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 2:12 PM Jeffrey Birt  wrote:
>
> I would think this could be done with an externally connected device and a 
> small ‘driver’. Of course, I have never tried to do anything like this on an 
> M100, so I have no real idea what I’m talking about. Just thinking of a 
> driver that gets ‘hooked’ into the OS that can insert keystrokes into the key 
> buffer.
>
>
>
> It would be interesting to know what more experienced M100 programmers think 
> though.
>
>
>
> Jeff Birt
>
>
>
> From: M100  On Behalf Of Scott McDonnell
> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 11:33 AM
> To: m...@bitchin100.com
> Subject: [M100] Joystick for the M100
>
>
>
> If I ever find one of these for a decent price again, I am thinking it might 
> be neat to hack one of these on to the M100. Probably need to tap into the 
> keyboard matrix. Anyone else do something similar to get a more intuitive use 
> of the arrow keys?
>
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Suncom-ICONtroller-Joystick-for-Commodore-64-128-Computer/154044424400?hash=item23ddc360d0:g:QDYAAOSweRhfNXC8
>
>
>
> https://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuzzblog_december17_4/car_sbd_111217_03.jpg
>
>

Re: [M100] Joystick for the M100

[Jeffrey Birt]

I would think this could be done with an externally connected device and a 
small ‘driver’. Of course, I have never tried to do anything like this on an 
M100, so I have no real idea what I’m talking about. Just thinking of a driver 
that gets ‘hooked’ into the OS that can insert keystrokes into the key buffer.

 

It would be interesting to know what more experienced M100 programmers think 
though.

 

Jeff Birt

 

From: M100  On Behalf Of Scott McDonnell
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 11:33 AM
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Subject: [M100] Joystick for the M100

 

If I ever find one of these for a decent price again, I am thinking it might be 
neat to hack one of these on to the M100. Probably need to tap into the 
keyboard matrix. Anyone else do something similar to get a more intuitive use 
of the arrow keys?

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Suncom-ICONtroller-Joystick-for-Commodore-64-128-Computer/154044424400?hash=item23ddc360d0:g:QDYAAOSweRhfNXC8

 

https://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuzzblog_december17_4/car_sbd_111217_03.jpg