iBooks on El Capitan

[Marshall Scott]

Hi,
I'm trying to use iBooks to read a book under El Capitan.  I can't seem to 
access the menu bar.  Is this a bug or am I doing something stupid.  Does 
iBooks work better using Sierra?  And please don't tell me to use my iPhone!
Thanks,
Marshall

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Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[David Chittenden]

Yes, the Orbit Braille Display. It uses mechanical actuaters which are moved 
into place with a spinning wheel that moves across the line. APH is one of the 
organisations involved with the project.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 17/12/2016, at 13:51, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> There’s actually a lot of work going on with lower cost braille.  There’s a 
> sub $500 braille display in the works from what I hear as well.
> 
>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 5:24 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Maybe, but if you don't happen to have a few thousand dollars lying around 
>> or a rehab agency who can provide those dollars, it might provide an option 
>> to have access to hard copy braille.  I hear what you're saying and I've 
>> seen braille produced that way.  It can be strange to read.  But at least 
>> it's another option.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 4:07 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>>> 
>>> A few thoughts:
>>> 90 of the blind people were able to read the braille. This means, the 
>>> braille was not as normally perceived.
>>> It requires a second heat source to activate the expansion. So, it includes 
>>> a heat-reactive component which swells. The swelling occurs in all 
>>> directions, not just vertical. So, the braille will most likely feel like 
>>> half-dome rounded dots. The printer probably sprays more ink in the center 
>>> of each dot to get increased hight, but as the ink powder dries from the 
>>> application of the lazer, there will be some spillage. I evaluated some 3d 
>>> printed tactile maps, and the 3d printed braille which was on the vertical 
>>> surfaces did not work very well because of the slight spillage.
>>> I suspect the dots will not be as tall, or as sharp, as blind people are 
>>> used to. Therefore, as currently explained, my guess is the device will 
>>> work better as a tactile graphics printer rather than as a braille printer.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 17/12/2016, at 06:17, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Thanks, all.  Glad people found it useful.  If it actually works, it sure 
 beats spending a few grand on a braille embosser.  And as for Duxbury, 
 they already have the capacity to print simulated braille, so I see no 
 reason why this would impact them much.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Dec 16, 2016, at 10:39 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Well now, this is a very intriguing one. I wonder if Duxbury is aware of 
> this.
> 
> Very good one, Donna, thanks for sharing it which is certainly not OT.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "Lord, Help me become the person
> my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 12/16/2016 5:55 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related, I
>> thought it would be of interest to many on the list.
>> 
>> http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-using-any-laser-printer-1673209/
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: Navigating tezt

[E.T.]

   And the answer is, interact with text. (smiles)

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "Lord, Help me become the person
  my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 12/16/2016 3:45 PM, E.T. wrote:

   I've been working with text to get a handle on navigating by
character, word, sentence and paragraph. Also using spell check.

   I am having trouble getting consistent results when reading next or
previous word, sentence and paragraph. I have no idea what I did but
somehow this now works as I funble with the VO commands. Any guidance
would be wonderful. Thanks.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "Lord, Help me become the person
  my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com



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Re: Is development for OS Over?

[Robin]

I'm Glad you Agree & I Agree with YourSuggestion AsWell
At 04:56 PM 12/16/2016, you wrote:
Yes, currently, the gesture must be a sharp 
angle, and it must be completed within 1/4 to 
1/3 of a second. If they increase the time to a 
couple seconds, that could help quite a bit. 
Also, it would help if they slightly soften the 
right angle and absolutely straight line 
requirements. This is where Apple is still ahead.


David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 17/12/2016, at 11:51, Robin  wrote:
>
> Just A Suggestion
> But What about simply Altering TheSensitivity 
of the Angle Gestures, so TalkBack users don't 
All have to Perform Them at the Same Pace-Speed

>
> Only A Suggestion
> At 12:00 PM 12/16/2016, you wrote:
>> Angle gestures are significantly easier for 
anyone who, at one time in the past, had enough 
vision to write print / handwriting, no matter 
the level of vision loss now. We did some (not 
rigorous) experimentation with a few people 
from both vision and never had vision 
backgrounds, and found that those who had 
vision were able to master the angle gestures.

>>
>> Android's very open configurability is 
fabulous. almost all gestures can be assigned 
to different commands. However, until they open 
up for multiple finger gestures, or change from 
right-angle gestures to arcs, or in some other 
way adjust the gesture input such that totally 
congenitally blind people are able to perform 
them consistently without training, I cannot 
use the devices as a power user, or recommend 
the device to power users who fit the above 
limitations. Note: if and when Google makes the 
necessary adjustments to TalkBack, I will start 
using those devices much more regularly.

>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On 17/12/2016, at 02:58, Erik Burggraaf  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi, this may be off-topic, but I believe 
there is a little bit of misinformation here.

>> >
>> > It is possible to use granularities 
without using the L-shaped gestures. For 
example, I have a single flick down set to 
swipe to next granularity, and a single flick 
up set to swipe to previous granularity. I can 
go through words characters lines paragraphs, 
and even the HTML elements that are available 
in the granularity menu. This is not quite as 
robust as the iOS router, but I believe that it 
is easier in the short term that learning to 
use the router. While I have no problem using 
the router myself, many of my customers did at 
least at first. Most of them picked it up 
eventually, but it definitely took practice and 
effort, just as the L-shaped gestures do. After 
much practice, I have no problem with the L 
shape gestures anymore either, and use them on a regular basis.

>> >
>> > Regarding labeling of Graphics, this is 
something that should be handled by Developers. 
New paradigm philosophy requires that 
developers insert Tags and ID's for everything. 
It shouldn't be up to a screen reader to assign 
labels, however, talk back can label graphics. 
I'm not sure if you can do this on iOS, but on 
Android you can backup your graphics files, and 
you can share your graphicsfiles.  Inclusive 
android.com has a feature that allows users to 
share their Graphics label files.  Once a 
plethora of graphic files become available for 
download, it should take a lot of the pressure 
off of developers of popular applications to go 
through  and fix that which was actually 
broken. It should also allow users to get up 
and running quicker out of the box.

>> >
>> > I still prefer iOS for browsing the 
internet, and reading on my Braille display. I 
definitely use Android far more often though. I 
use it for typing and word processing, checking 
my email, managing web host and FTP servers, 
numerous forms of entertainment, transportation 
and mobility, and all types of communication. 
All of the most popular Crossover apps, such as 
Microsoft Office, Skype, TuneIn Radio, WhatsApp 
Messenger, and so on are just as accessible and 
work very similarly on both IOS and Android. I 
am a regular user and admirer of both platforms 
comma and I would hate to see someone directed 
away from a device they think they might like, 
just because there's information out there 
saying the device isn't fully accessible when it actually is.

>> >
>> > Best,
>> >
>> > Erik
>> >
>> > Sent with AquaMail for Android
>> > http://www.aqua-mail.com
>> >
>> >
>> >> On December 16, 2016 7:59:41 AM David 
Chittenden  wrote:

>> >>
>> >> Yes, Android development is interesting.
>> >>
>> >> Someone in the US NFB posted a blog post 
comparing TalkBack and VoiceOver. The author 
loves the fact that Android is very 
configurable. The author also comments a fair 
amount about many more unlabeled buttons.

>> >>
>> >> The 

Re: Is development for OS Over?

[Scott Granados]

That doesn’t surprise me.  The surface changes are probably the most 
noticeable.  It’s easier to forget your phone is running faster and staying 
connected more, dropping calls less etc.  Put some shiny new packaging on the 
outside and people will gravitate towards it.  Sort of makes sense when you 
consider how big the + models were a hit at first.

At the same time, during the holidays here the phones are backordered at some 
carriers.  T-Mobile never populated their stores with phones this time it’s all 
been served out of their internal shipping department and other carriers are 
equally backed up so someone is buying these phones even if people don’t feel 
they are new.

Great observation David, thank you.



> On Dec 16, 2016, at 8:02 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> I heard about an interesting research results yesterday. According to the 
> results of a tech media company study, people tend to perceive advances 
> primarily occur when physical design changes. So, because Apple has not 
> changed the form-factor of the iPhone for the past few years, the iPhone is 
> not being innovative.
> 
> Matching this to comments I have read and heard from many people, I would 
> suggest that these results are fairly accurate of peoples' perceptions and 
> beliefs overall.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 17/12/2016, at 13:41, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> So there’s all this talk about lack of innovation and looking backwards?  
>> What would you want that’s not in place?  You’ve got a computer that fits in 
>> the palm of your hand, gets 450 megabits down and 100 up all over the planet 
>> with no wires, and is powerful as a MacBook Pro 13 inch in terms of 
>> processing power.  That ain’t a bad start.
>> 
>> I would like to see very good wireless charging.  That’s one thing I can 
>> think of that I’d like to see.  
>> 
>> On the Mac side I’m not sure I’m pretty happy there.  Oh I know, I’d like a 
>> built in LTE modem so it can be connected anywhere with out a third party 
>> hotspot or USB stick.
>> 
>> What do you think, what is Apple missing since people think they are 
>> stagnating.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 4:36 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi David,
>>> 
>>> Yes I have to agree,
>>> 
>>> Apple do have far superior accessibility features in their devices and 
>>> across their different platforms.
>>> 
>>> As well as keeping the accessibility features / gestures the same on the 
>>> different devices and os's 
>>> 
>>> Android are doing well but there are so many different versions of the 
>>> android OS that each one has changes to the last 
>>> 
>>> Apple have in my opinion lacked the out of the box innovation  that Steve 
>>> Jobbs had for the company.
>>> 
>>> The iPhone hasn't really changed since it's release,
>>> There have been changes but really it's the same device,
>>> 
>>> Same with the mac book lines, apart from slight changes in hardware things 
>>> haven't really changed a lot 
>>> And the mac OS x changes to me have been more backward than forward looking 
>>> in the passed couple of versions.
>>> 
>>> But hey I'm only a single user 
>>> 
>>> We will have to wait and see what happens.
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden
>>> Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2016 1:59 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Is development for OS Over?
>>> 
>>> Yes, Android development is interesting.
>>> 
>>> Someone in the US NFB posted a blog post comparing TalkBack and VoiceOver. 
>>> The author loves the fact that Android is very configurable. The author 
>>> also comments a fair amount about many more unlabeled buttons.
>>> 
>>> The author admits that it takes a few attempts each time to activate the 
>>> angle gestures, which call up the global and local menus. So, the author 
>>> usually does not use the global and local menus. Well, not using these 
>>> menus is similar to not using the rotor in VoiceOver. It would make things 
>>> more difficult, unless one merely uses basic iOS functionality.
>>> 
>>> Given that I use my iPhone to run my business, I would not be able to do so 
>>> with an Android device (I have two of them). I need the advanced 
>>> functionality.
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 17/12/2016, at 00:48, Scott Granados  wrote:
 
 I think we should with hold that opinion until the next round of phones, 
 the 10th anniversary version is supposed to be a radical change.
 
 Then again though, why change something that works?  Performance 
 improvements and such are great but really the platform is pretty good.  I 
 hear people make 

Re: Is development for OS Over?

[David Chittenden]

I heard about an interesting research results yesterday. According to the 
results of a tech media company study, people tend to perceive advances 
primarily occur when physical design changes. So, because Apple has not changed 
the form-factor of the iPhone for the past few years, the iPhone is not being 
innovative.

Matching this to comments I have read and heard from many people, I would 
suggest that these results are fairly accurate of peoples' perceptions and 
beliefs overall.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 17/12/2016, at 13:41, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> So there’s all this talk about lack of innovation and looking backwards?  
> What would you want that’s not in place?  You’ve got a computer that fits in 
> the palm of your hand, gets 450 megabits down and 100 up all over the planet 
> with no wires, and is powerful as a MacBook Pro 13 inch in terms of 
> processing power.  That ain’t a bad start.
> 
> I would like to see very good wireless charging.  That’s one thing I can 
> think of that I’d like to see.  
> 
> On the Mac side I’m not sure I’m pretty happy there.  Oh I know, I’d like a 
> built in LTE modem so it can be connected anywhere with out a third party 
> hotspot or USB stick.
> 
> What do you think, what is Apple missing since people think they are 
> stagnating.
> 
> 
>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 4:36 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi David,
>> 
>> Yes I have to agree,
>> 
>> Apple do have far superior accessibility features in their devices and 
>> across their different platforms.
>> 
>> As well as keeping the accessibility features / gestures the same on the 
>> different devices and os's 
>> 
>> Android are doing well but there are so many different versions of the 
>> android OS that each one has changes to the last 
>> 
>> Apple have in my opinion lacked the out of the box innovation  that Steve 
>> Jobbs had for the company.
>> 
>> The iPhone hasn't really changed since it's release,
>> There have been changes but really it's the same device,
>> 
>> Same with the mac book lines, apart from slight changes in hardware things 
>> haven't really changed a lot 
>> And the mac OS x changes to me have been more backward than forward looking 
>> in the passed couple of versions.
>> 
>> But hey I'm only a single user 
>> 
>> We will have to wait and see what happens.
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden
>> Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2016 1:59 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Is development for OS Over?
>> 
>> Yes, Android development is interesting.
>> 
>> Someone in the US NFB posted a blog post comparing TalkBack and VoiceOver. 
>> The author loves the fact that Android is very configurable. The author also 
>> comments a fair amount about many more unlabeled buttons.
>> 
>> The author admits that it takes a few attempts each time to activate the 
>> angle gestures, which call up the global and local menus. So, the author 
>> usually does not use the global and local menus. Well, not using these menus 
>> is similar to not using the rotor in VoiceOver. It would make things more 
>> difficult, unless one merely uses basic iOS functionality.
>> 
>> Given that I use my iPhone to run my business, I would not be able to do so 
>> with an Android device (I have two of them). I need the advanced 
>> functionality.
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 17/12/2016, at 00:48, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think we should with hold that opinion until the next round of phones, 
>>> the 10th anniversary version is supposed to be a radical change.
>>> 
>>> Then again though, why change something that works?  Performance 
>>> improvements and such are great but really the platform is pretty good.  I 
>>> hear people make these claims but my point is who’s doing better?  
>>> Definitely not Microsoft, windows 10 sucks, Google is doing interesting 
>>> things but behind the curve, Linux is also interesting but pretty 
>>> specialized for we engineering and systems folks.  Who has a better option 
>>> right now?  For all the griping we have on list try using an Android device 
>>> and get back to me.:). People are catching up to Apple so I hope there is a 
>>> jump ahead but they still aren’t there.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Dec 16, 2016, at 3:34 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
 
 I believe development is continuing in both OSX and IOS
 
 The rumour a couple of years ago was that apple were working to combine 
 both OS so that they have one operating system on all devices.
 
 Hints of this are able to be seen in the two operating systems now,
 
 Calendar, contacts, reminders, etc,

Re: Is development for OS Over?

[David Chittenden]

Yes, currently, the gesture must be a sharp angle, and it must be completed 
within 1/4 to 1/3 of a second. If they increase the time to a couple seconds, 
that could help quite a bit. Also, it would help if they slightly soften the 
right angle and absolutely straight line requirements. This is where Apple is 
still ahead.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 17/12/2016, at 11:51, Robin  wrote:
> 
> Just A Suggestion
> But What about simply Altering TheSensitivity of the Angle Gestures, so 
> TalkBack users don't All have to Perform Them at the Same Pace-Speed
> 
> Only A Suggestion
> At 12:00 PM 12/16/2016, you wrote:
>> Angle gestures are significantly easier for anyone who, at one time in the 
>> past, had enough vision to write print / handwriting, no matter the level of 
>> vision loss now. We did some (not rigorous) experimentation with a few 
>> people from both vision and never had vision backgrounds, and found that 
>> those who had vision were able to master the angle gestures.
>> 
>> Android's very open configurability is fabulous. almost all gestures can be 
>> assigned to different commands. However, until they open up for multiple 
>> finger gestures, or change from right-angle gestures to arcs, or in some 
>> other way adjust the gesture input such that totally congenitally blind 
>> people are able to perform them consistently without training, I cannot use 
>> the devices as a power user, or recommend the device to power users who fit 
>> the above limitations. Note: if and when Google makes the necessary 
>> adjustments to TalkBack, I will start using those devices much more 
>> regularly.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On 17/12/2016, at 02:58, Erik Burggraaf  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi, this may be off-topic, but I believe there is a little bit of 
>> > misinformation here.
>> >
>> > It is possible to use granularities without using the L-shaped gestures. 
>> > For example, I have a single flick down set to swipe to next granularity, 
>> > and a single flick up set to swipe to previous granularity. I can go 
>> > through words characters lines paragraphs, and even the HTML elements that 
>> > are available in the granularity menu. This is not quite as robust as the 
>> > iOS router, but I believe that it is easier in the short term that 
>> > learning to use the router. While I have no problem using the router 
>> > myself, many of my customers did at least at first. Most of them picked it 
>> > up eventually, but it definitely took practice and effort, just as the 
>> > L-shaped gestures do. After much practice, I have no problem with the L 
>> > shape gestures anymore either, and use them on a regular basis.
>> >
>> > Regarding labeling of Graphics, this is something that should be handled 
>> > by Developers. New paradigm philosophy requires that developers insert 
>> > Tags and ID's for everything. It shouldn't be up to a screen reader to 
>> > assign labels, however, talk back can label graphics. I'm not sure if you 
>> > can do this on iOS, but on Android you can backup your graphics files, and 
>> > you can share your graphicsfiles.  Inclusive android.com has a feature 
>> > that allows users to share their Graphics label files.  Once a plethora of 
>> > graphic files become available for download, it should take a lot of the 
>> > pressure off of developers of popular applications to go through  and fix 
>> > that which was actually broken. It should also allow users to get up and 
>> > running quicker out of the box.
>> >
>> > I still prefer iOS for browsing the internet, and reading on my Braille 
>> > display. I definitely use Android far more often though. I use it for 
>> > typing and word processing, checking my email, managing web host and FTP 
>> > servers, numerous forms of entertainment, transportation and mobility, and 
>> > all types of communication. All of the most popular Crossover apps, such 
>> > as Microsoft Office, Skype, TuneIn Radio, WhatsApp Messenger, and so on 
>> > are just as accessible and work very similarly on both IOS and Android. I 
>> > am a regular user and admirer of both platforms comma and I would hate to 
>> > see someone directed away from a device they think they might like, just 
>> > because there's information out there saying the device isn't fully 
>> > accessible when it actually is.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> >
>> > Erik
>> >
>> > Sent with AquaMail for Android
>> > http://www.aqua-mail.com
>> >
>> >
>> >> On December 16, 2016 7:59:41 AM David Chittenden  
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Yes, Android development is interesting.
>> >>
>> >> Someone in the US NFB posted a blog post comparing TalkBack and 
>> >> VoiceOver. The author loves the fact that Android is very configurable. 
>> >> The 

Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[Scott Granados]

There’s actually a lot of work going on with lower cost braille.  There’s a sub 
$500 braille display in the works from what I hear as well.

> On Dec 16, 2016, at 5:24 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Maybe, but if you don't happen to have a few thousand dollars lying around or 
> a rehab agency who can provide those dollars, it might provide an option to 
> have access to hard copy braille.  I hear what you're saying and I've seen 
> braille produced that way.  It can be strange to read.  But at least it's 
> another option.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 4:07 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>> 
>> A few thoughts:
>> 90 of the blind people were able to read the braille. This means, the 
>> braille was not as normally perceived.
>> It requires a second heat source to activate the expansion. So, it includes 
>> a heat-reactive component which swells. The swelling occurs in all 
>> directions, not just vertical. So, the braille will most likely feel like 
>> half-dome rounded dots. The printer probably sprays more ink in the center 
>> of each dot to get increased hight, but as the ink powder dries from the 
>> application of the lazer, there will be some spillage. I evaluated some 3d 
>> printed tactile maps, and the 3d printed braille which was on the vertical 
>> surfaces did not work very well because of the slight spillage.
>> I suspect the dots will not be as tall, or as sharp, as blind people are 
>> used to. Therefore, as currently explained, my guess is the device will work 
>> better as a tactile graphics printer rather than as a braille printer.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 17/12/2016, at 06:17, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks, all.  Glad people found it useful.  If it actually works, it sure 
>>> beats spending a few grand on a braille embosser.  And as for Duxbury, they 
>>> already have the capacity to print simulated braille, so I see no reason 
>>> why this would impact them much.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Dec 16, 2016, at 10:39 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Well now, this is a very intriguing one. I wonder if Duxbury is aware of 
 this.
 
 Very good one, Donna, thanks for sharing it which is certainly not OT.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "Lord, Help me become the person
 my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 12/16/2016 5:55 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related, I
> thought it would be of interest to many on the list.
> 
> http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-using-any-laser-printer-1673209/
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[Scott Granados]

They tend not to slap if you use large bills.:)

> On Dec 16, 2016, at 4:46 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> I got slapped last time I looked at tactile porn,
> Mind you she was still waring cloths!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2016 5:54 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser 
> printers to generate braille
> 
> You would go there, Scott! lol
>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 10:41 AM, Scott Granados  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Wow, think of the porn possibilities.;)
>> 
>>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 11:39 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well now, this is a very intriguing one. I wonder if Duxbury is aware of 
>>> this.
>>> 
>>> Very good one, Donna, thanks for sharing it which is certainly not OT.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "Lord, Help me become the person
>>> my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 12/16/2016 5:55 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related, I 
 thought it would be of interest to many on the list.
 
 http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-using
 -any-laser-printer-1673209/
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
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Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[Scott Granados]

I’ve seen a 3D printer recently that prints with sugar and frosting believe it 
or not.  It’s supposedly going to revolutionize the cake business.

Will I. Am as in the guy from the Black Eyed Peas you may or may not know is a 
pretty serious technologist.  On top of creating a new square function for 
Intel he’s working on printing food with 3D printers where you would basically 
input a molecular design with all the various proteins and such and out will 
pop a steak.  The whole thing sounds so very Star Trek replicator like to me.
I’ve also seen a model that prints in metal.  You can load a pattern 
for a sub machine gun and boom, automatic weapon appears.  These in combination 
with the new complex milling machines I find amazing.

The systems you have sound so cool.  I’d love to generate something that rises 
up directed by lasers.  That’s just futuristic to no end.
 
> On Dec 16, 2016, at 12:40 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Scott,
> 
> We have a couple of 3D printers around and they work on a different model, 
> although the thinking may have been based on similar premises.  This 3D 
> printing stuff moves too fast for us to keep up.  Our first machine used 
> spools of ABS plastic and constructed the object in layers.  The newer one 
> uses different frequencies of lasers to, essentially, raise the object out of 
> a pool of resin.  There's even more efficient and less expensive models out 
> there now, we just can't keep spending money.  Our students love creating 
> things using these tools.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Dec 16, 2016, at 09:56, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Hahah you know it.
> 
> Honestly though, it sounds like a very cool technology.
> 
> I still want to get a 3D printer in house to see what that’s all about.  This 
> seems like a variation on that theme.
> 
>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 11:54 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> You would go there, Scott! lol
>>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 10:41 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wow, think of the porn possibilities.;)
>>> 
 On Dec 16, 2016, at 11:39 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Well now, this is a very intriguing one. I wonder if Duxbury is aware of 
 this.
 
 Very good one, Donna, thanks for sharing it which is certainly not OT.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "Lord, Help me become the person
 my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
 On 12/16/2016 5:55 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related, I
> thought it would be of interest to many on the list.
> 
> http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-using-any-laser-printer-1673209/
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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 To 

Office 365?

[David Diamond]

David and his pack of dogs.  Sent from his IPhonecan office 365 be set up 
MacBook Pro if not how do I send and receive email messages

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Re: Is development for OS Over?

[Scott Granados]

So there’s all this talk about lack of innovation and looking backwards?  What 
would you want that’s not in place?  You’ve got a computer that fits in the 
palm of your hand, gets 450 megabits down and 100 up all over the planet with 
no wires, and is powerful as a MacBook Pro 13 inch in terms of processing 
power.  That ain’t a bad start.

I would like to see very good wireless charging.  That’s one thing I can think 
of that I’d like to see.  

On the Mac side I’m not sure I’m pretty happy there.  Oh I know, I’d like a 
built in LTE modem so it can be connected anywhere with out a third party 
hotspot or USB stick.

What do you think, what is Apple missing since people think they are stagnating.


> On Dec 16, 2016, at 4:36 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> Yes I have to agree,
> 
> Apple do have far superior accessibility features in their devices and across 
> their different platforms.
> 
> As well as keeping the accessibility features / gestures the same on the 
> different devices and os's 
> 
> Android are doing well but there are so many different versions of the 
> android OS that each one has changes to the last 
> 
> Apple have in my opinion lacked the out of the box innovation  that Steve 
> Jobbs had for the company.
> 
> The iPhone hasn't really changed since it's release,
> There have been changes but really it's the same device,
> 
> Same with the mac book lines, apart from slight changes in hardware things 
> haven't really changed a lot 
> And the mac OS x changes to me have been more backward than forward looking 
> in the passed couple of versions.
> 
> But hey I'm only a single user 
> 
> We will have to wait and see what happens.
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden
> Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2016 1:59 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Is development for OS Over?
> 
> Yes, Android development is interesting.
> 
> Someone in the US NFB posted a blog post comparing TalkBack and VoiceOver. 
> The author loves the fact that Android is very configurable. The author also 
> comments a fair amount about many more unlabeled buttons.
> 
> The author admits that it takes a few attempts each time to activate the 
> angle gestures, which call up the global and local menus. So, the author 
> usually does not use the global and local menus. Well, not using these menus 
> is similar to not using the rotor in VoiceOver. It would make things more 
> difficult, unless one merely uses basic iOS functionality.
> 
> Given that I use my iPhone to run my business, I would not be able to do so 
> with an Android device (I have two of them). I need the advanced 
> functionality.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 17/12/2016, at 00:48, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I think we should with hold that opinion until the next round of phones, the 
>> 10th anniversary version is supposed to be a radical change.
>> 
>> Then again though, why change something that works?  Performance 
>> improvements and such are great but really the platform is pretty good.  I 
>> hear people make these claims but my point is who’s doing better?  
>> Definitely not Microsoft, windows 10 sucks, Google is doing interesting 
>> things but behind the curve, Linux is also interesting but pretty 
>> specialized for we engineering and systems folks.  Who has a better option 
>> right now?  For all the griping we have on list try using an Android device 
>> and get back to me.:). People are catching up to Apple so I hope there is a 
>> jump ahead but they still aren’t there.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 3:34 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I believe development is continuing in both OSX and IOS
>>> 
>>> The rumour a couple of years ago was that apple were working to combine 
>>> both OS so that they have one operating system on all devices.
>>> 
>>> Hints of this are able to be seen in the two operating systems now,
>>> 
>>> Calendar, contacts, reminders, etc,
>>> They used to be called things like address book, iCal  iChat etc.
>>> 
>>> iCloud drive between devices and multiple platforms,
>>> 
>>> keep an eye out things wil be changing but I do have to admit I 
>>> believe apple have somewhat stopped moving forward with enovated designing 
>>> and this I believe is simply Steve Jobbs was the enovator and currently no 
>>> one else in apple is showing the ability to think outside the box.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
>>> Sent: Friday, 16 December 2016 1:38 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Is development for OS Over?
>>> 
>>> There will be a new line of iMacs coming out sometime next 

itunes help, please!

[alia robinson]

Okay, since the update my itunes is making the sound like it’s downloading 
something every 15 seconds. I have dl apps music from other devices etc all 
unchecked, any ideas? this is driving me crazy. no one sighted sees my itunes 
downloading anything.

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Navigating tezt

[E.T.]

   I've been working with text to get a handle on navigating by 
character, word, sentence and paragraph. Also using spell check.


   I am having trouble getting consistent results when reading next or 
previous word, sentence and paragraph. I have no idea what I did but 
somehow this now works as I funble with the VO commands. Any guidance 
would be wonderful. Thanks.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "Lord, Help me become the person
  my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

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Re: Is development for OS Over?

[Robin]

Just A Suggestion
But What about simply Altering TheSensitivity of 
the Angle Gestures, so TalkBack users don't All 
have to Perform Them at the Same Pace-Speed


Only A Suggestion
At 12:00 PM 12/16/2016, you wrote:
Angle gestures are significantly easier for 
anyone who, at one time in the past, had enough 
vision to write print / handwriting, no matter 
the level of vision loss now. We did some (not 
rigorous) experimentation with a few people from 
both vision and never had vision backgrounds, 
and found that those who had vision were able to master the angle gestures.


Android's very open configurability is fabulous. 
almost all gestures can be assigned to different 
commands. However, until they open up for 
multiple finger gestures, or change from 
right-angle gestures to arcs, or in some other 
way adjust the gesture input such that totally 
congenitally blind people are able to perform 
them consistently without training, I cannot use 
the devices as a power user, or recommend the 
device to power users who fit the above 
limitations. Note: if and when Google makes the 
necessary adjustments to TalkBack, I will start 
using those devices much more regularly.


Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 17/12/2016, at 02:58, Erik Burggraaf  wrote:
>
> Hi, this may be off-topic, but I believe 
there is a little bit of misinformation here.

>
> It is possible to use granularities without 
using the L-shaped gestures. For example, I 
have a single flick down set to swipe to next 
granularity, and a single flick up set to swipe 
to previous granularity. I can go through words 
characters lines paragraphs, and even the HTML 
elements that are available in the granularity 
menu. This is not quite as robust as the iOS 
router, but I believe that it is easier in the 
short term that learning to use the router. 
While I have no problem using the router 
myself, many of my customers did at least at 
first. Most of them picked it up eventually, 
but it definitely took practice and effort, 
just as the L-shaped gestures do. After much 
practice, I have no problem with the L shape 
gestures anymore either, and use them on a regular basis.

>
> Regarding labeling of Graphics, this is 
something that should be handled by Developers. 
New paradigm philosophy requires that 
developers insert Tags and ID's for everything. 
It shouldn't be up to a screen reader to assign 
labels, however, talk back can label graphics. 
I'm not sure if you can do this on iOS, but on 
Android you can backup your graphics files, and 
you can share your graphicsfiles.  Inclusive 
android.com has a feature that allows users to 
share their Graphics label files.  Once a 
plethora of graphic files become available for 
download, it should take a lot of the pressure 
off of developers of popular applications to go 
through  and fix that which was actually 
broken. It should also allow users to get up 
and running quicker out of the box.

>
> I still prefer iOS for browsing the internet, 
and reading on my Braille display. I definitely 
use Android far more often though. I use it for 
typing and word processing, checking my email, 
managing web host and FTP servers, numerous 
forms of entertainment, transportation and 
mobility, and all types of communication. All 
of the most popular Crossover apps, such as 
Microsoft Office, Skype, TuneIn Radio, WhatsApp 
Messenger, and so on are just as accessible and 
work very similarly on both IOS and Android. I 
am a regular user and admirer of both platforms 
comma and I would hate to see someone directed 
away from a device they think they might like, 
just because there's information out there 
saying the device isn't fully accessible when it actually is.

>
> Best,
>
> Erik
>
> Sent with AquaMail for Android
> http://www.aqua-mail.com
>
>
>> On December 16, 2016 7:59:41 AM David 
Chittenden  wrote:

>>
>> Yes, Android development is interesting.
>>
>> Someone in the US NFB posted a blog post 
comparing TalkBack and VoiceOver. The author 
loves the fact that Android is very 
configurable. The author also comments a fair 
amount about many more unlabeled buttons.

>>
>> The author admits that it takes a few 
attempts each time to activate the angle 
gestures, which call up the global and local 
menus. So, the author usually does not use the 
global and local menus. Well, not using these 
menus is similar to not using the rotor in 
VoiceOver. It would make things more difficult, 
unless one merely uses basic iOS functionality.

>>
>> Given that I use my iPhone to run my 
business, I would not be able to do so with an 
Android device (I have two of them). I need the advanced functionality.

>>
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 17/12/2016, at 00:48, Scott Granados 

Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[Donna Goodin]

Maybe, but if you don't happen to have a few thousand dollars lying around or a 
rehab agency who can provide those dollars, it might provide an option to have 
access to hard copy braille.  I hear what you're saying and I've seen braille 
produced that way.  It can be strange to read.  But at least it's another 
option.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Dec 16, 2016, at 4:07 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> A few thoughts:
> 90 of the blind people were able to read the braille. This means, the braille 
> was not as normally perceived.
> It requires a second heat source to activate the expansion. So, it includes a 
> heat-reactive component which swells. The swelling occurs in all directions, 
> not just vertical. So, the braille will most likely feel like half-dome 
> rounded dots. The printer probably sprays more ink in the center of each dot 
> to get increased hight, but as the ink powder dries from the application of 
> the lazer, there will be some spillage. I evaluated some 3d printed tactile 
> maps, and the 3d printed braille which was on the vertical surfaces did not 
> work very well because of the slight spillage.
> I suspect the dots will not be as tall, or as sharp, as blind people are used 
> to. Therefore, as currently explained, my guess is the device will work 
> better as a tactile graphics printer rather than as a braille printer.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 17/12/2016, at 06:17, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, all.  Glad people found it useful.  If it actually works, it sure 
>> beats spending a few grand on a braille embosser.  And as for Duxbury, they 
>> already have the capacity to print simulated braille, so I see no reason why 
>> this would impact them much.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 10:39 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well now, this is a very intriguing one. I wonder if Duxbury is aware of 
>>> this.
>>> 
>>> Very good one, Donna, thanks for sharing it which is certainly not OT.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "Lord, Help me become the person
>>> my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On 12/16/2016 5:55 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related, I
 thought it would be of interest to many on the list.
 
 http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-using-any-laser-printer-1673209/
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
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>> 

Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[David Chittenden]

A few thoughts:
90 of the blind people were able to read the braille. This means, the braille 
was not as normally perceived.
It requires a second heat source to activate the expansion. So, it includes a 
heat-reactive component which swells. The swelling occurs in all directions, 
not just vertical. So, the braille will most likely feel like half-dome rounded 
dots. The printer probably sprays more ink in the center of each dot to get 
increased hight, but as the ink powder dries from the application of the lazer, 
there will be some spillage. I evaluated some 3d printed tactile maps, and the 
3d printed braille which was on the vertical surfaces did not work very well 
because of the slight spillage.
I suspect the dots will not be as tall, or as sharp, as blind people are used 
to. Therefore, as currently explained, my guess is the device will work better 
as a tactile graphics printer rather than as a braille printer.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 17/12/2016, at 06:17, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, all.  Glad people found it useful.  If it actually works, it sure 
> beats spending a few grand on a braille embosser.  And as for Duxbury, they 
> already have the capacity to print simulated braille, so I see no reason why 
> this would impact them much.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 10:39 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>>  Well now, this is a very intriguing one. I wonder if Duxbury is aware of 
>> this.
>> 
>>  Very good one, Donna, thanks for sharing it which is certainly not OT.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "Lord, Help me become the person
>> my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 12/16/2016 5:55 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related, I
>>> thought it would be of interest to many on the list.
>>> 
>>> http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-using-any-laser-printer-1673209/
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
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>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark
>>> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
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>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
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> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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> 
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> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The 

RE: thoughts on battery after update

[BBS]

Also Donna, did you download my battery status script I posted last night? When 
you install it, you should be able to press Right Option+B to announce the 
battery status.

 

 

Shawn

Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10

Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs

Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk

Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper

Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 6:27 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: thoughts on battery after update

 

I haven't made much use of hot spots, but that's a good idea.  I'll give it a 
try.

Cheers,

Donna

On Dec 15, 2016, at 9:27 PM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:

 

Actually, though I have not yet installed the update, there is a good chance 
you could set a hot spot on the power dialog and then use VO-Command-HotSpot to 
check the battery level and stay in your current application.

 

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn 



 

On Dec 15, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

 

That's exactly what I plan to do for the time being.
Cheers,
Donna



On Dec 15, 2016, at 3:56 PM, E.T.  wrote:

 Open the Energy preferences and leave focus on the battery charge item which 
reads in percentage. Just switch windows now and then to check it.

>From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
"Lord, Help me become the person
my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 12/15/2016 1:47 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:



Don't get me wrong, I'll never defend all the crazy things FS has done.  But 
no, if I'm in a meeting or some other public environment where I'm paying 
attention to other things, I don't want to have to go into applications, then 
into utilities, then Open the Activity Monitor, then bring up the item chooser 
so that I can see the battery level.  That's too many steps for something so 
very basic.  If Apple is really committed to accessibility, information such as 
battery level should be available to me with the same ease that it is available 
to a sighted user.

Cheers,
Donna



On Dec 15, 2016, at 3:42 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:

I have to say I think that’s crazy. It’s not like the data isn’t easily 
available.  Sure it’s a step backwards, no disagreement there but easily fixed, 
I’m sure it will be addressed and the data is still available through alternate 
means.  We’re talking about adding an Apple script or using a monitoring tool 
here not having to work around in some crazy cursor mode and click with a mouse 
because the keyboard commands don’t focus correctly or any number of issues you 
run in to on the windows side.  I would agree if there was no access to battery 
level but the fact is there still is and not just in one alternate way but many.

Just stop and think for a half second of all the things Freedom Scientific have 
broken in their history and they are a dedicated accessibility company.  I rest 
my case.




On Dec 15, 2016, at 4:39 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

Hi Tim,

I certainly wouldn't relish going back to Windows, but for me it would be a 
matter of principle.  Having access to battery information is for me a 
non-negotiable component of portable computing, and if a company thinks that 
blind users should be OK living without that, I'm not OK with them.  This is 
all the more true in the wake of that video that was shown at the last Apple 
event where they touted their commitment to accessibility.  So, I wouldn't want 
to go back to Windows, but I would feel that this decision by Apple flies in 
the face of their own stated values, and leaves me with a computer I'm not 
comfortable trusting when i don't have access to AC.

At any rate, hopefully this will be fixed soon, and so will be  moot point.
Cheers,
Donna



On Dec 15, 2016, at 2:56 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:

Hi,

I agree with Donna that it is a step backwards to have something visible to the 
sighted user, but not present to the VO user.  Scott, that's pleasing if 
they're working on it in 10.12.3.  All they really need to do is make the 
indicator announce/display things exactly the same for when the machine is 
using the power adaptor or the battery.  It does announce things just fine in 
10.12.2 if you're plugged in, but it's absent when on battery power.

I wouldn't go quite so far as to purchase a Windows laptop just because of 
this, as there's far too many advantages to my Mac experience to go that 
direction.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Dec 15, 2016, at 13:45, Scott Granados  wrote:

Actually strike that, it’s not quite but it looks like work is being done in 
that area.

Stay tuned it’s at least reporting the charging state but no percentage yet.




On Dec 15, 2016, at 3:43 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

RE: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[Simon Fogarty]

Tim 

We've just recently started producing things from 3d printing, 
I'm not sure what it's using but we charge for the printing so the products are 
paying themselves off, 
 I'm actually trying to get a printer config for creating a long caine using 
the 3d printer but we're having a few issues withit currently.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2016 6:41 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser 
printers to generate braille

Scott,

We have a couple of 3D printers around and they work on a different model, 
although the thinking may have been based on similar premises.  This 3D 
printing stuff moves too fast for us to keep up.  Our first machine used spools 
of ABS plastic and constructed the object in layers.  The newer one uses 
different frequencies of lasers to, essentially, raise the object out of a pool 
of resin.  There's even more efficient and less expensive models out there now, 
we just can't keep spending money.  Our students love creating things using 
these tools.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Dec 16, 2016, at 09:56, Scott Granados  wrote:

Hahah you know it.

Honestly though, it sounds like a very cool technology.

I still want to get a 3D printer in house to see what that’s all about.  This 
seems like a variation on that theme.

> On Dec 16, 2016, at 11:54 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> You would go there, Scott! lol
>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 10:41 AM, Scott Granados  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Wow, think of the porn possibilities.;)
>> 
>>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 11:39 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well now, this is a very intriguing one. I wonder if Duxbury is aware of 
>>> this.
>>> 
>>> Very good one, Donna, thanks for sharing it which is certainly not OT.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "Lord, Help me become the person
>>> my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 12/16/2016 5:55 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related, 
 I thought it would be of interest to many on the list.
 
 http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-usin
 g-any-laser-printer-1673209/
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
 --
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this 
 list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please 
 contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
 itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach 
 mark
 at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is 
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>>> 
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>>> 
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>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries 

Re: Is development for OS Over?

[David Chittenden]

Yes, which is one of the reasons I am now actively working with Android.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 17/12/2016, at 10:36, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> Yes I have to agree,
> 
> Apple do have far superior accessibility features in their devices and across 
> their different platforms.
> 
> As well as keeping the accessibility features / gestures the same on the 
> different devices and os's 
> 
> Android are doing well but there are so many different versions of the 
> android OS that each one has changes to the last 
> 
> Apple have in my opinion lacked the out of the box innovation  that Steve 
> Jobbs had for the company.
> 
> The iPhone hasn't really changed since it's release,
> There have been changes but really it's the same device,
> 
> Same with the mac book lines, apart from slight changes in hardware things 
> haven't really changed a lot 
> And the mac OS x changes to me have been more backward than forward looking 
> in the passed couple of versions.
> 
> But hey I'm only a single user 
> 
> We will have to wait and see what happens.
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden
> Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2016 1:59 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Is development for OS Over?
> 
> Yes, Android development is interesting.
> 
> Someone in the US NFB posted a blog post comparing TalkBack and VoiceOver. 
> The author loves the fact that Android is very configurable. The author also 
> comments a fair amount about many more unlabeled buttons.
> 
> The author admits that it takes a few attempts each time to activate the 
> angle gestures, which call up the global and local menus. So, the author 
> usually does not use the global and local menus. Well, not using these menus 
> is similar to not using the rotor in VoiceOver. It would make things more 
> difficult, unless one merely uses basic iOS functionality.
> 
> Given that I use my iPhone to run my business, I would not be able to do so 
> with an Android device (I have two of them). I need the advanced 
> functionality.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 17/12/2016, at 00:48, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I think we should with hold that opinion until the next round of phones, the 
>> 10th anniversary version is supposed to be a radical change.
>> 
>> Then again though, why change something that works?  Performance 
>> improvements and such are great but really the platform is pretty good.  I 
>> hear people make these claims but my point is who’s doing better?  
>> Definitely not Microsoft, windows 10 sucks, Google is doing interesting 
>> things but behind the curve, Linux is also interesting but pretty 
>> specialized for we engineering and systems folks.  Who has a better option 
>> right now?  For all the griping we have on list try using an Android device 
>> and get back to me.:). People are catching up to Apple so I hope there is a 
>> jump ahead but they still aren’t there.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 3:34 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I believe development is continuing in both OSX and IOS
>>> 
>>> The rumour a couple of years ago was that apple were working to combine 
>>> both OS so that they have one operating system on all devices.
>>> 
>>> Hints of this are able to be seen in the two operating systems now,
>>> 
>>> Calendar, contacts, reminders, etc,
>>> They used to be called things like address book, iCal  iChat etc.
>>> 
>>> iCloud drive between devices and multiple platforms,
>>> 
>>> keep an eye out things wil be changing but I do have to admit I 
>>> believe apple have somewhat stopped moving forward with enovated designing 
>>> and this I believe is simply Steve Jobbs was the enovator and currently no 
>>> one else in apple is showing the ability to think outside the box.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
>>> Sent: Friday, 16 December 2016 1:38 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Is development for OS Over?
>>> 
>>> There will be a new line of iMacs coming out sometime next year.  They 
>>> delayed them, cause they need to find a way to put the touch bar on the 
>>> keyboard that ships with it.  Personally, nothing exciting has changed 
>>> since mavericks, but they foot print is getting smaller, just glad updates 
>>> are free, based on the lack of changes we have seen.  From what the reviews 
>>> and reports say about the 2016 MacBook Pro, they probably should have 
>>> waited on those too.
 On Dec 15, 2016, at 5:12 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 Just a question for you 

RE: Is development for OS Over?

[Simon Fogarty]

And then of course there is Narrator!

 A built in screan reader, or is that voice from my windows computer.



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Erik Burggraaf
Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2016 6:28 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Is development for OS Over?

The nfb has been on the new paradigm bandwagon ever since their ill-fated 
review of VoiceOver in iOS many years ago. In fact, the last two conventions 
have featured almost nothing about old Paradigm screen readers. 
They are still clinging to some old products like humanware Hardware. 
Basically though, built-in screen readers are not only here to stay, but in 
more ways they are undeniably more effective than old bolt on Technologies. 
Any attempt to suppress such a Viewpoint at this juncture would be so 
counterproductive that it could gut an organization like the NFB.  You may 
believe this or you may not, but in fact, reputation is everything to the NFB.

Best,

Erik

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


On December 16, 2016 11:47:16 AM Scott Granados 
wrote:

> Wow, the NFB wrote something positive about built in screen readers?  
> Did someone see 4 horsemen around here somewhere?
>
>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 7:58 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>>
>> Yes, Android development is interesting.
>>
>> Someone in the US NFB posted a blog post comparing TalkBack and VoiceOver. 
>> The author loves the fact that Android is very configurable. The 
>> author also comments a fair amount about many more unlabeled buttons.
>>
>> The author admits that it takes a few attempts each time to activate 
>> the angle gestures, which call up the global and local menus. So, the 
>> author usually does not use the global and local menus. Well, not 
>> using these menus is similar to not using the rotor in VoiceOver. It 
>> would make things more difficult, unless one merely uses basic iOS 
>> functionality.
>>
>> Given that I use my iPhone to run my business, I would not be able to 
>> do so with an Android device (I have two of them). I need the advanced 
>> functionality.
>>
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 17/12/2016, at 00:48, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>>
>>> I think we should with hold that opinion until the next round of 
>>> phones, the 10th anniversary version is supposed to be a radical change.
>>>
>>> Then again though, why change something that works?  Performance 
>>> improvements and such are great but really the platform is pretty 
>>> good.  I hear people make these claims but my point is who’s doing better?
>>> Definitely not Microsoft, windows 10 sucks, Google is doing 
>>> interesting things but behind the curve, Linux is also interesting 
>>> but pretty specialized for we engineering and systems folks.  Who 
>>> has a better option right now?  For all the griping we have on list 
>>> try using an Android device and get back to me.:). People are 
>>> catching up to Apple so I hope there is a jump ahead but they still aren’t 
>>> there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
 On Dec 16, 2016, at 3:34 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:

 I believe development is continuing in both OSX and IOS

 The rumour a couple of years ago was that apple were working to 
 combine both OS so that they have one operating system on all devices.

 Hints of this are able to be seen in the two operating systems now,

 Calendar, contacts, reminders, etc, They used to be called things 
 like address book, iCal  iChat etc.

 iCloud drive between devices and multiple platforms,

 keep an eye out things wil be changing but I do have to admit I 
 believe apple have somewhat stopped moving forward with enovated 
 designing and this I believe is simply Steve Jobbs was the enovator 
 and currently no one else in apple is showing the ability to think outside 
 the box.

 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kliphton 
 Miller
 Sent: Friday, 16 December 2016 1:38 PM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: Is development for OS Over?

 There will be a new line of iMacs coming out sometime next year.  
 They delayed them, cause they need to find a way to put the touch 
 bar on the keyboard that ships with it.  Personally, nothing 
 exciting has changed since mavericks, but they foot print is 
 getting smaller, just glad updates are free, based on the lack of 
 changes we have seen.  From what the reviews and reports say about 
 the 2016 MacBook Pro, they probably should have waited on those too.
> On Dec 15, 2016, at 5:12 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>
> 

RE: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[Simon Fogarty]

I got slapped last time I looked at tactile porn,
 Mind you she was still waring cloths!

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2016 5:54 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser 
printers to generate braille

You would go there, Scott! lol
> On Dec 16, 2016, at 10:41 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Wow, think of the porn possibilities.;)
> 
>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 11:39 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>>  Well now, this is a very intriguing one. I wonder if Duxbury is aware of 
>> this.
>> 
>>  Very good one, Donna, thanks for sharing it which is certainly not OT.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "Lord, Help me become the person
>> my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 12/16/2016 5:55 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related, I 
>>> thought it would be of interest to many on the list.
>>> 
>>> http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-using
>>> -any-laser-printer-1673209/
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
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RE: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[Simon Fogarty]

Ok!

 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2016 5:42 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser 
printers to generate braille

Wow, think of the porn possibilities.;)

> On Dec 16, 2016, at 11:39 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Well now, this is a very intriguing one. I wonder if Duxbury is aware of 
> this.
> 
>   Very good one, Donna, thanks for sharing it which is certainly not OT.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "Lord, Help me become the person
>  my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 12/16/2016 5:55 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related, I 
>> thought it would be of interest to many on the list.
>> 
>> http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-using-
>> any-laser-printer-1673209/
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: dashes in html code

[Antonio Guimaraes]

Thanks Tim and Jonathan.

I turned smart dashes off in the edit menu in Text Edit and can write without 
intervention from Text Edit.

Best,

Antonio




> On Dec 11, 2016, at 8:56 AM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> another thing you could do is create a text expansion for the tag. You can do 
> this in the keyboard area of system Preferences. Click on the "text" tab. 
> You'll notice there are a few expansions provided by Apple like ( c ) for ©. 
> BTW any text expansion you put in here should also be available on your phone 
> 
> 
>   Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 10, 2016, at 6:42 PM, Antonio Guimaraes > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I’m writing blog posts which include some html. I’m trying to enter the more 
>> tag 
>> 
>> This code includes pairs of dashes which any edit field on my Mac wants to 
>> turn into MDash. 
>> 
>> This probably renders my html useless.
>> 
>> Is there a way to turn off the automatic changes happening here?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Antonio 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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RE: Is development for OS Over?

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi David,

Yes I have to agree,

 Apple do have far superior accessibility features in their devices and across 
their different platforms.

As well as keeping the accessibility features / gestures the same on the 
different devices and os's 

 Android are doing well but there are so many different versions of the android 
OS that each one has changes to the last 

Apple have in my opinion lacked the out of the box innovation  that Steve Jobbs 
had for the company.

 The iPhone hasn't really changed since it's release,
 There have been changes but really it's the same device,

 Same with the mac book lines, apart from slight changes in hardware things 
haven't really changed a lot 
And the mac OS x changes to me have been more backward than forward looking in 
the passed couple of versions.

But hey I'm only a single user 

 We will have to wait and see what happens.
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of David Chittenden
Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2016 1:59 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Is development for OS Over?

Yes, Android development is interesting.

Someone in the US NFB posted a blog post comparing TalkBack and VoiceOver. The 
author loves the fact that Android is very configurable. The author also 
comments a fair amount about many more unlabeled buttons.

The author admits that it takes a few attempts each time to activate the angle 
gestures, which call up the global and local menus. So, the author usually does 
not use the global and local menus. Well, not using these menus is similar to 
not using the rotor in VoiceOver. It would make things more difficult, unless 
one merely uses basic iOS functionality.

Given that I use my iPhone to run my business, I would not be able to do so 
with an Android device (I have two of them). I need the advanced functionality.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 17/12/2016, at 00:48, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> I think we should with hold that opinion until the next round of phones, the 
> 10th anniversary version is supposed to be a radical change.
> 
> Then again though, why change something that works?  Performance improvements 
> and such are great but really the platform is pretty good.  I hear people 
> make these claims but my point is who’s doing better?  Definitely not 
> Microsoft, windows 10 sucks, Google is doing interesting things but behind 
> the curve, Linux is also interesting but pretty specialized for we 
> engineering and systems folks.  Who has a better option right now?  For all 
> the griping we have on list try using an Android device and get back to 
> me.:). People are catching up to Apple so I hope there is a jump ahead but 
> they still aren’t there.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 3:34 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> I believe development is continuing in both OSX and IOS
>> 
>> The rumour a couple of years ago was that apple were working to combine both 
>> OS so that they have one operating system on all devices.
>> 
>> Hints of this are able to be seen in the two operating systems now,
>> 
>> Calendar, contacts, reminders, etc,
>> They used to be called things like address book, iCal  iChat etc.
>> 
>> iCloud drive between devices and multiple platforms,
>> 
>> keep an eye out things wil be changing but I do have to admit I 
>> believe apple have somewhat stopped moving forward with enovated designing 
>> and this I believe is simply Steve Jobbs was the enovator and currently no 
>> one else in apple is showing the ability to think outside the box.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
>> Sent: Friday, 16 December 2016 1:38 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Is development for OS Over?
>> 
>> There will be a new line of iMacs coming out sometime next year.  They 
>> delayed them, cause they need to find a way to put the touch bar on the 
>> keyboard that ships with it.  Personally, nothing exciting has changed since 
>> mavericks, but they foot print is getting smaller, just glad updates are 
>> free, based on the lack of changes we have seen.  From what the reviews and 
>> reports say about the 2016 MacBook Pro, they probably should have waited on 
>> those too.
>>> On Dec 15, 2016, at 5:12 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just a question for you all.
>>> 
>>> Please note I don't test beta's as I don't have time but have been 
>>> wondering is development over for the Mac OS?  For the last six years since 
>>> I've used the Mac, only small things have changed.  I as you most know, use 
>>> a Mac and Mac Mini as I don't have any need for a portable machine.  Apple 
>>> bring out new lap tops but they don't bring out a new desk top so am 
>>> 

Re: OSX 10.12.2 released

[Matthew Dyer]

Hi,


I use return to read my message.  The problem is not with vo opening the 
wrong message, vbut rather after you are done reading a message in a 
thread and you delete the message, you are droped to the end of the 
thread or so it seems.  I then have to go to the top to see the next 
message in the thread if this makes sence.



Matthew




On 12/15/2016 07:44 PM, Shawn Krasniuk wrote:
Hey guys. For those of you who wanted the battery script, I'll paste 
the dropbox link at the end of the message. I was going to do this 
last night but I was tired and didn't have the energy to find it. To 
have it run, simply go to your Mackintosh HD in finder, then go to 
library than scripts. Find the Voiceover folder then paste the script. 
To use it, simply press right option+B.
As for Matthew's email problem, are you using VO+J to read your 
messages or are you pressing return? I press return when reading 
emails and this doesn't happen to me. Anyway, here's the Dropbox link.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/elcxyjgmjyjlq3w/battery%20status.scpt?dl=0

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 

On Dec 15, 2016, at 1:54 AM, Simon Fogarty > wrote:


I didn't know of mail issues ether,

I do know that sierra might have a few issues on a 2009 iMac,
As I believe that is the bottom end of it's range.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2016 8:17 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 


Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released

I didn't know there were problems with Mail to start with. Mail seems 
to work fine here, but perhaps I don't have mine configured like most 
would.


Chris.

- Original Message -
From: "Junior Lolley KG4ITD" >
To: >

Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 12:55 PM
Subject: RE: OSX 10.12.2 released


Has the problems with mail been fixed?



Junior Lolley kg4itd
Liberty County Emergency Coordinator
"The 3 C’s of life: choices, chances, and changes. You must make a 
choice to

take a chance or your life will never change."
Don't impress others with what you have; impress them with who you are.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 


[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 11:48 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 


Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released

Yup, was released yesterday afternoon about 1 EST
On Dec 14, 2016, at 11:44 AM, Scott Granados 
>

wrote:

I was able to download 10.12.2 this morning, looks to be a public 
release.

Enjoying it so far and find the initial stability issues from the beta
have been worked out.  Update em if you got em.

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Copying text from a website in Safari

[Antonio Guimaraes]

I am trying to select and copy the text of a proposed nonprofit contract from 
the website using Safari.

Here's the link:

http://www.blueavocado.org/content/board-member-contract

I'm using the shift and arrow keys with quick nav off, or similar commands with 
quick nav on and focus on navigation, or command a to select all, Then command 
C  to copy text, then paste it into a text edit file.

None of these methods allows me to copy text to the clipboard.

Am I doing something wrong, or does Safari need to catch up to basic text 
editing functions with VoiceOver on?

More important, what workarounds can I use in this case?

Thanks,

Antonio



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Re: OSX 10.12.2 released

[E.T.]

   Thanks all. That was too easy. I was sure I had the "allow 
AppleScript to control VoiceOver " checked. It wasn't.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "Lord, Help me become the person
  my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 12/16/2016 10:53 AM, Jonathan Cohn wrote:

You probably need to check allow AppleScript to control VoiceOver in the
VoiceOver utility under general.

There are two ways forAppleScript to speak items
tell VoiceOver to output "Hello there"
and
speak "Hello there"

The first one uses VoiceOver and voiceover preferences.
The second one uses Apple's standard speech language that has been
available since MacOS 7 (and I don't mean 10.7)

Most VoiceOver aware speech scripts will ask VoiceOver to say the area
of the voiceover cursor and if that command fails it will then use the
Speak command, but if the get bounds of VO Cursor succeeds then it will use
tell VoiceOver to output theString


Best Wishes,

Jonathan  to

On 16 December 2016 at 12:03, E.T. > wrote:

   I ike it too. Only one problem, VO speech is slower than in other
areas. I don't remember if I ever fixed this when I used scripts before.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "Lord, Help me become the person
  my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com 

On 12/16/2016 8:32 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

That script is so much better than the previous built in method

On Dec 16, 2016, at 7:52 AM, Donna Goodin 
>> wrote:

That is a truly handy script, especially these days.  thanks
again, Shawn.
Cheers,
Donna

On Dec 15, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Shawn Krasniuk

>> wrote:

Hey guys. For those of you who wanted the battery
script, I'll paste
the dropbox link at the end of the message. I was going
to do this
last night but I was tired and didn't have the energy to
find it. To
have it run, simply go to your Mackintosh HD in finder,
then go to
library than scripts. Find the Voiceover folder then
paste the
script. To use it, simply press right option+B.
As for Matthew's email problem, are you using VO+J to
read your
messages or are you pressing return? I press return when
reading
emails and this doesn't happen to me. Anyway, here's the
Dropbox link.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/elcxyjgmjyjlq3w/battery%20status.scpt?dl=0



Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
 >

On Dec 15, 2016, at 1:54 AM, Simon Fogarty

>> wrote:

I didn't know of mail issues ether,

I do know that sierra might have a few issues on a
2009 iMac,
As I believe that is the bottom end of it's range.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

>
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
] On Behalf Of
Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2016 8:17 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

>
Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released

I didn't know there were problems with Mail to start
with. Mail
seems to work fine here, but perhaps I don't have
mine 

appleTV4 factory sealed for sale

[Kliphton Miller]

Hello, I have received permission to post this item for sale, an please direct 
all inquiries to
kliph...@icloud.com 
I have 2 Apple TV 4th generations 32GB for sale, never been opened, have no 
need since I already have 3.  If interested, please email me at the address 
above.

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Re: Is development for OS Over?

[David Chittenden]

Angle gestures are significantly easier for anyone who, at one time in the 
past, had enough vision to write print / handwriting, no matter the level of 
vision loss now. We did some (not rigorous) experimentation with a few people 
from both vision and never had vision backgrounds, and found that those who had 
vision were able to master the angle gestures.

Android's very open configurability is fabulous. almost all gestures can be 
assigned to different commands. However, until they open up for multiple finger 
gestures, or change from right-angle gestures to arcs, or in some other way 
adjust the gesture input such that totally congenitally blind people are able 
to perform them consistently without training, I cannot use the devices as a 
power user, or recommend the device to power users who fit the above 
limitations. Note: if and when Google makes the necessary adjustments to 
TalkBack, I will start using those devices much more regularly.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 17/12/2016, at 02:58, Erik Burggraaf  wrote:
> 
> Hi, this may be off-topic, but I believe there is a little bit of 
> misinformation here.
> 
> It is possible to use granularities without using the L-shaped gestures. For 
> example, I have a single flick down set to swipe to next granularity, and a 
> single flick up set to swipe to previous granularity. I can go through words 
> characters lines paragraphs, and even the HTML elements that are available in 
> the granularity menu. This is not quite as robust as the iOS router, but I 
> believe that it is easier in the short term that learning to use the router. 
> While I have no problem using the router myself, many of my customers did at 
> least at first. Most of them picked it up eventually, but it definitely took 
> practice and effort, just as the L-shaped gestures do. After much practice, I 
> have no problem with the L shape gestures anymore either, and use them on a 
> regular basis.
> 
> Regarding labeling of Graphics, this is something that should be handled by 
> Developers. New paradigm philosophy requires that developers insert Tags and 
> ID's for everything. It shouldn't be up to a screen reader to assign labels, 
> however, talk back can label graphics. I'm not sure if you can do this on 
> iOS, but on Android you can backup your graphics files, and you can share 
> your graphicsfiles.  Inclusive android.com has a feature that allows users to 
> share their Graphics label files.  Once a plethora of graphic files become 
> available for download, it should take a lot of the pressure off of 
> developers of popular applications to go through  and fix that which was 
> actually broken. It should also allow users to get up and running quicker out 
> of the box.
> 
> I still prefer iOS for browsing the internet, and reading on my Braille 
> display. I definitely use Android far more often though. I use it for typing 
> and word processing, checking my email, managing web host and FTP servers, 
> numerous forms of entertainment, transportation and mobility, and all types 
> of communication. All of the most popular Crossover apps, such as Microsoft 
> Office, Skype, TuneIn Radio, WhatsApp Messenger, and so on are just as 
> accessible and work very similarly on both IOS and Android. I am a regular 
> user and admirer of both platforms comma and I would hate to see someone 
> directed away from a device they think they might like, just because there's 
> information out there saying the device isn't fully accessible when it 
> actually is.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Erik
> 
> Sent with AquaMail for Android
> http://www.aqua-mail.com
> 
> 
>> On December 16, 2016 7:59:41 AM David Chittenden  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, Android development is interesting.
>> 
>> Someone in the US NFB posted a blog post comparing TalkBack and VoiceOver. 
>> The author loves the fact that Android is very configurable. The author also 
>> comments a fair amount about many more unlabeled buttons.
>> 
>> The author admits that it takes a few attempts each time to activate the 
>> angle gestures, which call up the global and local menus. So, the author 
>> usually does not use the global and local menus. Well, not using these menus 
>> is similar to not using the rotor in VoiceOver. It would make things more 
>> difficult, unless one merely uses basic iOS functionality.
>> 
>> Given that I use my iPhone to run my business, I would not be able to do so 
>> with an Android device (I have two of them). I need the advanced 
>> functionality.
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 17/12/2016, at 00:48, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think we should with hold that opinion until the next round of phones, 
>>> the 10th anniversary version is supposed to be a 

Re: OSX 10.12.2 released

[Jonathan Cohn]

You probably need to check allow AppleScript to control VoiceOver in the
VoiceOver utility under general.

There are two ways forAppleScript to speak items
tell VoiceOver to output "Hello there"
and
speak "Hello there"

The first one uses VoiceOver and voiceover preferences.
The second one uses Apple's standard speech language that has been
available since MacOS 7 (and I don't mean 10.7)

Most VoiceOver aware speech scripts will ask VoiceOver to say the area of
the voiceover cursor and if that command fails it will then use the Speak
command, but if the get bounds of VO Cursor succeeds then it will use
tell VoiceOver to output theString


Best Wishes,

Jonathan  to

On 16 December 2016 at 12:03, E.T.  wrote:

>I ike it too. Only one problem, VO speech is slower than in other
> areas. I don't remember if I ever fixed this when I used scripts before.
>
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>   "Lord, Help me become the person
>   my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>
> On 12/16/2016 8:32 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>
>> That script is so much better than the previous built in method
>>
>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 7:52 AM, Donna Goodin >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> That is a truly handy script, especially these days.  thanks again,
>>> Shawn.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>>
 On Dec 15, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Shawn Krasniuk > wrote:

 Hey guys. For those of you who wanted the battery script, I'll paste
 the dropbox link at the end of the message. I was going to do this
 last night but I was tired and didn't have the energy to find it. To
 have it run, simply go to your Mackintosh HD in finder, then go to
 library than scripts. Find the Voiceover folder then paste the
 script. To use it, simply press right option+B.
 As for Matthew's email problem, are you using VO+J to read your
 messages or are you pressing return? I press return when reading
 emails and this doesn't happen to me. Anyway, here's the Dropbox link.
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/elcxyjgmjyjlq3w/battery%20status.scpt?dl=0

 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook
 Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
 Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
 Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
 Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 

 On Dec 15, 2016, at 1:54 AM, Simon Fogarty  > wrote:
>
> I didn't know of mail issues ether,
>
> I do know that sierra might have a few issues on a 2009 iMac,
> As I believe that is the bottom end of it's range.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Christopher-Mark Gilland
> Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2016 8:17 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released
>
> I didn't know there were problems with Mail to start with. Mail
> seems to work fine here, but perhaps I don't have mine configured
> like most would.
>
> Chris.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Junior Lolley KG4ITD"  >
> To:  >
> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 12:55 PM
> Subject: RE: OSX 10.12.2 released
>
>
> Has the problems with mail been fixed?
>
>
>
> Junior Lolley kg4itd
> Liberty County Emergency Coordinator
> "The 3 C’s of life: choices, chances, and changes. You must make a
> choice to
> take a chance or your life will never change."
> Don't impress others with what you have; impress them with who you are.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 11:48 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released
>
> Yup, was released yesterday afternoon about 1 EST
>
>> On Dec 14, 2016, at 11:44 AM, Scott Granados
>> >
>> wrote:
>>
>> I was able to download 10.12.2 this morning, looks to be a public
>> release.
>> Enjoying it so far and find the initial stability issues from the beta
>> have been worked out.  Update em if you got em.
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>> Visionaries list.
>>
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of 

Re: contacts problem

[jeff `greene]

Hi I tried what John recommended but I only got 2 contacts back. I had
34 before the update. Will give Ray's suggestion a try.
Jeff


On 12/16/16, Ray Foret jr  wrote:
> Try a simpler solution first.
>
> 1.  Sign out of iCloud on your phone.
>
> 2.  turn off your phone for at least one minute.
>
> 3.  Now, turn your phone back on.
>
> 4.  Now, sign in to iCloud.  Connect and lock.
>
> HTH.
>
>
> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind
> built-in
>
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>
> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless
> iPhone7+ and Apple TV user!
>
>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 9:53 AM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
>>
>> First, check on the web or another Apple device to make sure your contacts
>> are still in the Cloud.
>>
>> If they are then do a backup of the contacts, Macintosh's have a save
>> function and possibly a export function. You would need to select all
>> contacts and then use either the export or save as functions.
>>
>>
>> If you want, you could even open the export file with textedit to verify
>> content is there.
>>
>> Next you should look at your iCloud settings on the phone. Disconnect
>> contacts if it is selected and then wait a little and restart phone. Now
>> re-enable iCloud contacts, they should only take a few seconds to
>> synchronize on anything faster than 56kbs.
>>
>> If this doesn't work then hopefully you have at least received an error
>> message somewhere along in the process.
>>
>>  Best Wishes,
>>
>> Jonathan Cohn
>>
>> On 16 December 2016 at 10:35, E.T. > > wrote:
>>Reboot the phone?
>>
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>   "Lord, Help me become the person
>>   my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>>
>>
>> On 12/16/2016 7:33 AM, jeff `greene wrote:
>> Hi, Well, I updated my iPhone 7 to 10.2 and all my contacts are gone.
>> Since the update I've put the phone on the charger overnight hoping
>> icloud would download my contacts, but no luck. Any suggestions?
>> Thanks Jeff
>>
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>> Visionaries list.
>>
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com
>>  and your owner is
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>> 
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>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[Tim Kilburn]

Scott,

We have a couple of 3D printers around and they work on a different model, 
although the thinking may have been based on similar premises.  This 3D 
printing stuff moves too fast for us to keep up.  Our first machine used spools 
of ABS plastic and constructed the object in layers.  The newer one uses 
different frequencies of lasers to, essentially, raise the object out of a pool 
of resin.  There's even more efficient and less expensive models out there now, 
we just can't keep spending money.  Our students love creating things using 
these tools.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Dec 16, 2016, at 09:56, Scott Granados  wrote:

Hahah you know it.

Honestly though, it sounds like a very cool technology.

I still want to get a 3D printer in house to see what that’s all about.  This 
seems like a variation on that theme.

> On Dec 16, 2016, at 11:54 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> You would go there, Scott! lol
>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 10:41 AM, Scott Granados  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Wow, think of the porn possibilities.;)
>> 
>>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 11:39 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well now, this is a very intriguing one. I wonder if Duxbury is aware of 
>>> this.
>>> 
>>> Very good one, Donna, thanks for sharing it which is certainly not OT.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "Lord, Help me become the person
>>> my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 12/16/2016 5:55 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related, I
 thought it would be of interest to many on the list.
 
 http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-using-any-laser-printer-1673209/
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
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 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
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>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
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>>> 
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>> 
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>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> 

Re: OSX 10.12.2 released

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

The speech is slower because this script is using the System voice along with 
the "Say" command.  VO users tend to speed up speech much faster than the 
System voice is by default.   You can adjust the attributes of the System voice 
by going into system Preferences, Accessibility and selecting the Speech 
category.  You can then adjust the speech rate and voice.  I like the System 
voice rate being closer to my preferred rate for VO but choose a friendly 
female voice instead.  this also lets me distinguish between VO announcements 
and system announcements.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Dec 16, 2016, at 10:14, Donna Goodin  wrote:

Really?  It is not for me.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Dec 16, 2016, at 11:03 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>  I ike it too. Only one problem, VO speech is slower than in other areas. I 
> don't remember if I ever fixed this when I used scripts before.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "Lord, Help me become the person
> my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 12/16/2016 8:32 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> That script is so much better than the previous built in method
>> 
>>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 7:52 AM, Donna Goodin >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> That is a truly handy script, especially these days.  thanks again, Shawn.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Dec 15, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Shawn Krasniuk > wrote:
 
 Hey guys. For those of you who wanted the battery script, I'll paste
 the dropbox link at the end of the message. I was going to do this
 last night but I was tired and didn't have the energy to find it. To
 have it run, simply go to your Mackintosh HD in finder, then go to
 library than scripts. Find the Voiceover folder then paste the
 script. To use it, simply press right option+B.
 As for Matthew's email problem, are you using VO+J to read your
 messages or are you pressing return? I press return when reading
 emails and this doesn't happen to me. Anyway, here's the Dropbox link.
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/elcxyjgmjyjlq3w/battery%20status.scpt?dl=0
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook
 Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
 Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
 Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
 Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
 
> On Dec 15, 2016, at 1:54 AM, Simon Fogarty  > wrote:
> 
> I didn't know of mail issues ether,
> 
> I do know that sierra might have a few issues on a 2009 iMac,
> As I believe that is the bottom end of it's range.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Christopher-Mark Gilland
> Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2016 8:17 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released
> 
> I didn't know there were problems with Mail to start with. Mail
> seems to work fine here, but perhaps I don't have mine configured
> like most would.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Junior Lolley KG4ITD"  >
> To:  >
> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 12:55 PM
> Subject: RE: OSX 10.12.2 released
> 
> 
> Has the problems with mail been fixed?
> 
> 
> 
> Junior Lolley kg4itd
> Liberty County Emergency Coordinator
> "The 3 C’s of life: choices, chances, and changes. You must make a
> choice to
> take a chance or your life will never change."
> Don't impress others with what you have; impress them with who you are.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 11:48 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released
> 
> Yup, was released yesterday afternoon about 1 EST
>> On Dec 14, 2016, at 11:44 AM, Scott Granados
>> >
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I was able to download 10.12.2 this morning, looks to be a public
>> release.
>> Enjoying it so far and find the initial stability issues from the beta
>> have been worked out.  Update em if you got em.
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>> Visionaries list.
>> 

Re: OSX 10.12.2 released

[Donna Goodin]

ET,

VO has different voice settings for speaking different kinds of information. 
within each of those categories, you can set all the parameters, rate, pitch, 
etc.  That's probably where your problem is. To fix this, go into the VO 
utility, then to Voices, then click on additional voice options.  There you can 
configure each voice however you want.
HTH,
Donna
> On Dec 16, 2016, at 11:03 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   I ike it too. Only one problem, VO speech is slower than in other areas. I 
> don't remember if I ever fixed this when I used scripts before.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "Lord, Help me become the person
>  my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 12/16/2016 8:32 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> That script is so much better than the previous built in method
>> 
>>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 7:52 AM, Donna Goodin >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> That is a truly handy script, especially these days.  thanks again, Shawn.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Dec 15, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Shawn Krasniuk > wrote:
 
 Hey guys. For those of you who wanted the battery script, I'll paste
 the dropbox link at the end of the message. I was going to do this
 last night but I was tired and didn't have the energy to find it. To
 have it run, simply go to your Mackintosh HD in finder, then go to
 library than scripts. Find the Voiceover folder then paste the
 script. To use it, simply press right option+B.
 As for Matthew's email problem, are you using VO+J to read your
 messages or are you pressing return? I press return when reading
 emails and this doesn't happen to me. Anyway, here's the Dropbox link.
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/elcxyjgmjyjlq3w/battery%20status.scpt?dl=0
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook
 Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
 Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
 Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
 Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
 
> On Dec 15, 2016, at 1:54 AM, Simon Fogarty  > wrote:
> 
> I didn't know of mail issues ether,
> 
> I do know that sierra might have a few issues on a 2009 iMac,
> As I believe that is the bottom end of it's range.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Christopher-Mark Gilland
> Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2016 8:17 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released
> 
> I didn't know there were problems with Mail to start with. Mail
> seems to work fine here, but perhaps I don't have mine configured
> like most would.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Junior Lolley KG4ITD"  >
> To:  >
> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 12:55 PM
> Subject: RE: OSX 10.12.2 released
> 
> 
> Has the problems with mail been fixed?
> 
> 
> 
> Junior Lolley kg4itd
> Liberty County Emergency Coordinator
> "The 3 C’s of life: choices, chances, and changes. You must make a
> choice to
> take a chance or your life will never change."
> Don't impress others with what you have; impress them with who you are.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 11:48 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released
> 
> Yup, was released yesterday afternoon about 1 EST
>> On Dec 14, 2016, at 11:44 AM, Scott Granados
>> >
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I was able to download 10.12.2 this morning, looks to be a public
>> release.
>> Enjoying it so far and find the initial stability issues from the beta
>> have been worked out.  Update em if you got em.
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
>> list, or
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
>> mark
>> at:  

Re: Is development for OS Over?

[Erik Burggraaf]

The nfb has been on the new paradigm bandwagon ever since their ill-fated 
review of VoiceOver in iOS many years ago. In fact, the last two 
conventions have featured almost nothing about old Paradigm screen readers. 
They are still clinging to some old products like humanware Hardware. 
Basically though, built-in screen readers are not only here to stay, but in 
more ways they are undeniably more effective than old bolt on Technologies. 
Any attempt to suppress such a Viewpoint at this juncture would be so 
counterproductive that it could gut an organization like the NFB.  You may 
believe this or you may not, but in fact, reputation is everything to the NFB.


Best,

Erik

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


On December 16, 2016 11:47:16 AM Scott Granados  
wrote:


Wow, the NFB wrote something positive about built in screen readers?  Did 
someone see 4 horsemen around here somewhere?



On Dec 16, 2016, at 7:58 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:

Yes, Android development is interesting.

Someone in the US NFB posted a blog post comparing TalkBack and VoiceOver. 
The author loves the fact that Android is very configurable. The author 
also comments a fair amount about many more unlabeled buttons.


The author admits that it takes a few attempts each time to activate the 
angle gestures, which call up the global and local menus. So, the author 
usually does not use the global and local menus. Well, not using these 
menus is similar to not using the rotor in VoiceOver. It would make things 
more difficult, unless one merely uses basic iOS functionality.


Given that I use my iPhone to run my business, I would not be able to do so 
with an Android device (I have two of them). I need the advanced functionality.


David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone


On 17/12/2016, at 00:48, Scott Granados  wrote:

I think we should with hold that opinion until the next round of phones, 
the 10th anniversary version is supposed to be a radical change.


Then again though, why change something that works?  Performance 
improvements and such are great but really the platform is pretty good.  I 
hear people make these claims but my point is who’s doing better?  
Definitely not Microsoft, windows 10 sucks, Google is doing interesting 
things but behind the curve, Linux is also interesting but pretty 
specialized for we engineering and systems folks.  Who has a better option 
right now?  For all the griping we have on list try using an Android device 
and get back to me.:). People are catching up to Apple so I hope there is a 
jump ahead but they still aren’t there.





On Dec 16, 2016, at 3:34 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:

I believe development is continuing in both OSX and IOS

The rumour a couple of years ago was that apple were working to combine 
both OS so that they have one operating system on all devices.


Hints of this are able to be seen in the two operating systems now,

Calendar, contacts, reminders, etc,
They used to be called things like address book, iCal  iChat etc.

iCloud drive between devices and multiple platforms,

keep an eye out things wil be changing but I do have to admit I believe 
apple have somewhat stopped moving forward with enovated designing
and this I believe is simply Steve Jobbs was the enovator and currently no 
one else in apple is showing the ability to think outside the box.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller

Sent: Friday, 16 December 2016 1:38 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Is development for OS Over?

There will be a new line of iMacs coming out sometime next year.  They 
delayed them, cause they need to find a way to put the touch bar on the 
keyboard that ships with it.  Personally, nothing exciting has changed 
since mavericks, but they foot print is getting smaller, just glad updates 
are free, based on the lack of changes we have seen.  From what the reviews 
and reports say about the 2016 MacBook Pro, they probably should have 
waited on those too.

On Dec 15, 2016, at 5:12 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

Just a question for you all.

Please note I don't test beta's as I don't have time but have been 
wondering is development over for the Mac OS?  For the last six years since 
I've used the Mac, only small things have changed.  I as you most know, use 
a Mac and Mac Mini as I don't have any need for a portable machine.  Apple 
bring out new lap tops but they don't bring out a new desk top so am 
wondering if Apple are finished with the computer side of their OS.  They 
have also got rid of their mac safe wire and their airport extremes.  I am 
very sad that Apple should want to do this.  In fact access technology has 
been standing still since the talking I phone came 

Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[Donna Goodin]

Thanks, all.  Glad people found it useful.  If it actually works, it sure beats 
spending a few grand on a braille embosser.  And as for Duxbury, they already 
have the capacity to print simulated braille, so I see no reason why this would 
impact them much.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Dec 16, 2016, at 10:39 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Well now, this is a very intriguing one. I wonder if Duxbury is aware of 
> this.
> 
>   Very good one, Donna, thanks for sharing it which is certainly not OT.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "Lord, Help me become the person
>  my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 12/16/2016 5:55 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related, I
>> thought it would be of interest to many on the list.
>> 
>> http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-using-any-laser-printer-1673209/
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> --
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Re: OSX 10.12.2 released

[Donna Goodin]

Really?  It is not for me.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Dec 16, 2016, at 11:03 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   I ike it too. Only one problem, VO speech is slower than in other areas. I 
> don't remember if I ever fixed this when I used scripts before.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "Lord, Help me become the person
>  my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 12/16/2016 8:32 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> That script is so much better than the previous built in method
>> 
>>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 7:52 AM, Donna Goodin >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> That is a truly handy script, especially these days.  thanks again, Shawn.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Dec 15, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Shawn Krasniuk > wrote:
 
 Hey guys. For those of you who wanted the battery script, I'll paste
 the dropbox link at the end of the message. I was going to do this
 last night but I was tired and didn't have the energy to find it. To
 have it run, simply go to your Mackintosh HD in finder, then go to
 library than scripts. Find the Voiceover folder then paste the
 script. To use it, simply press right option+B.
 As for Matthew's email problem, are you using VO+J to read your
 messages or are you pressing return? I press return when reading
 emails and this doesn't happen to me. Anyway, here's the Dropbox link.
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/elcxyjgmjyjlq3w/battery%20status.scpt?dl=0
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook
 Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
 Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
 Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
 Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
 
> On Dec 15, 2016, at 1:54 AM, Simon Fogarty  > wrote:
> 
> I didn't know of mail issues ether,
> 
> I do know that sierra might have a few issues on a 2009 iMac,
> As I believe that is the bottom end of it's range.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Christopher-Mark Gilland
> Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2016 8:17 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released
> 
> I didn't know there were problems with Mail to start with. Mail
> seems to work fine here, but perhaps I don't have mine configured
> like most would.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Junior Lolley KG4ITD"  >
> To:  >
> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 12:55 PM
> Subject: RE: OSX 10.12.2 released
> 
> 
> Has the problems with mail been fixed?
> 
> 
> 
> Junior Lolley kg4itd
> Liberty County Emergency Coordinator
> "The 3 C’s of life: choices, chances, and changes. You must make a
> choice to
> take a chance or your life will never change."
> Don't impress others with what you have; impress them with who you are.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 11:48 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released
> 
> Yup, was released yesterday afternoon about 1 EST
>> On Dec 14, 2016, at 11:44 AM, Scott Granados
>> >
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I was able to download 10.12.2 this morning, looks to be a public
>> release.
>> Enjoying it so far and find the initial stability issues from the beta
>> have been worked out.  Update em if you got em.
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
>> list, or
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
>> mark
>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com
>>  and your owner
>> is Cara
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> 

Re: contacts problem

[Ray Foret jr]

Try a simpler solution first.

1.  Sign out of iCloud on your phone.

2.  turn off your phone for at least one minute.

3.  Now, turn your phone back on.

4.  Now, sign in to iCloud.  Connect and lock.

HTH.


Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
iPhone7+ and Apple TV user!

> On Dec 16, 2016, at 9:53 AM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> First, check on the web or another Apple device to make sure your contacts 
> are still in the Cloud. 
> 
> If they are then do a backup of the contacts, Macintosh's have a save 
> function and possibly a export function. You would need to select all 
> contacts and then use either the export or save as functions. 
> 
> 
> If you want, you could even open the export file with textedit to verify 
> content is there. 
> 
> Next you should look at your iCloud settings on the phone. Disconnect 
> contacts if it is selected and then wait a little and restart phone. Now 
> re-enable iCloud contacts, they should only take a few seconds to synchronize 
> on anything faster than 56kbs. 
> 
> If this doesn't work then hopefully you have at least received an error 
> message somewhere along in the process.
> 
>  Best Wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn 
> 
> On 16 December 2016 at 10:35, E.T.  > wrote:
>Reboot the phone?
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>   "Lord, Help me become the person
>   my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
> 
> 
> On 12/16/2016 7:33 AM, jeff `greene wrote:
> Hi, Well, I updated my iPhone 7 to 10.2 and all my contacts are gone.
> Since the update I've put the phone on the charger overnight hoping
> icloud would download my contacts, but no luck. Any suggestions?
> Thanks Jeff
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>  and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> 
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: OSX 10.12.2 released

[E.T.]

   I ike it too. Only one problem, VO speech is slower than in other 
areas. I don't remember if I ever fixed this when I used scripts before.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "Lord, Help me become the person
  my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 12/16/2016 8:32 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

That script is so much better than the previous built in method


On Dec 16, 2016, at 7:52 AM, Donna Goodin > wrote:

That is a truly handy script, especially these days.  thanks again, Shawn.
Cheers,
Donna

On Dec 15, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Shawn Krasniuk > wrote:

Hey guys. For those of you who wanted the battery script, I'll paste
the dropbox link at the end of the message. I was going to do this
last night but I was tired and didn't have the energy to find it. To
have it run, simply go to your Mackintosh HD in finder, then go to
library than scripts. Find the Voiceover folder then paste the
script. To use it, simply press right option+B.
As for Matthew's email problem, are you using VO+J to read your
messages or are you pressing return? I press return when reading
emails and this doesn't happen to me. Anyway, here's the Dropbox link.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/elcxyjgmjyjlq3w/battery%20status.scpt?dl=0

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 


On Dec 15, 2016, at 1:54 AM, Simon Fogarty > wrote:

I didn't know of mail issues ether,

I do know that sierra might have a few issues on a 2009 iMac,
As I believe that is the bottom end of it's range.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2016 8:17 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released

I didn't know there were problems with Mail to start with. Mail
seems to work fine here, but perhaps I don't have mine configured
like most would.

Chris.

- Original Message -
From: "Junior Lolley KG4ITD" >
To: >
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 12:55 PM
Subject: RE: OSX 10.12.2 released


Has the problems with mail been fixed?



Junior Lolley kg4itd
Liberty County Emergency Coordinator
"The 3 C’s of life: choices, chances, and changes. You must make a
choice to
take a chance or your life will never change."
Don't impress others with what you have; impress them with who you are.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 11:48 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released

Yup, was released yesterday afternoon about 1 EST

On Dec 14, 2016, at 11:44 AM, Scott Granados
>
wrote:

I was able to download 10.12.2 this morning, looks to be a public
release.
Enjoying it so far and find the initial stability issues from the beta
have been worked out.  Update em if you got em.

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Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[Scott Granados]

Hahah you know it.

Honestly though, it sounds like a very cool technology.

I still want to get a 3D printer in house to see what that’s all about.  This 
seems like a variation on that theme.

> On Dec 16, 2016, at 11:54 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> You would go there, Scott! lol
>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 10:41 AM, Scott Granados  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Wow, think of the porn possibilities.;)
>> 
>>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 11:39 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well now, this is a very intriguing one. I wonder if Duxbury is aware of 
>>> this.
>>> 
>>> Very good one, Donna, thanks for sharing it which is certainly not OT.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "Lord, Help me become the person
>>> my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 12/16/2016 5:55 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related, I
 thought it would be of interest to many on the list.
 
 http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-using-any-laser-printer-1673209/
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
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> 
> 

Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[Donna Goodin]

You would go there, Scott! lol
> On Dec 16, 2016, at 10:41 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Wow, think of the porn possibilities.;)
> 
>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 11:39 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>>  Well now, this is a very intriguing one. I wonder if Duxbury is aware of 
>> this.
>> 
>>  Very good one, Donna, thanks for sharing it which is certainly not OT.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "Lord, Help me become the person
>> my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 12/16/2016 5:55 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related, I
>>> thought it would be of interest to many on the list.
>>> 
>>> http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-using-any-laser-printer-1673209/
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
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Re: OSX 10.12.2 released

[Donna Goodin]

Yes, it is.
Donna
> On Dec 16, 2016, at 10:32 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> That script is so much better than the previous built in method
> 
>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 7:52 AM, Donna Goodin > > wrote:
>> 
>>  That is a truly handy script, especially these days.  thanks again, 
>> Shawn.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Dec 15, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Shawn Krasniuk >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hey guys. For those of you who wanted the battery script, I'll paste the 
>>> dropbox link at the end of the message. I was going to do this last night 
>>> but I was tired and didn't have the energy to find it. To have it run, 
>>> simply go to your Mackintosh HD in finder, then go to library than scripts. 
>>> Find the Voiceover folder then paste the script. To use it, simply press 
>>> right option+B.
>>> As for Matthew's email problem, are you using VO+J to read your messages or 
>>> are you pressing return? I press return when reading emails and this 
>>> doesn't happen to me. Anyway, here's the Dropbox link.
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/elcxyjgmjyjlq3w/battery%20status.scpt?dl=0 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
 On Dec 15, 2016, at 1:54 AM, Simon Fogarty > wrote:
 
 I didn't know of mail issues ether,
 
 I do know that sierra might have a few issues on a 2009 iMac, 
 As I believe that is the bottom end of it's range.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 ] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark 
 Gilland
 Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2016 8:17 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released
 
 I didn't know there were problems with Mail to start with. Mail seems to 
 work fine here, but perhaps I don't have mine configured like most would.
 
 Chris.
 
 - Original Message -
 From: "Junior Lolley KG4ITD" >
 To: >
 Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 12:55 PM
 Subject: RE: OSX 10.12.2 released
 
 
 Has the problems with mail been fixed?
 
 
 
 Junior Lolley kg4itd
 Liberty County Emergency Coordinator
 "The 3 C’s of life: choices, chances, and changes. You must make a choice 
 to 
 take a chance or your life will never change."
 Don't impress others with what you have; impress them with who you are.
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 ] On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
 Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 11:48 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released
 
 Yup, was released yesterday afternoon about 1 EST
> On Dec 14, 2016, at 11:44 AM, Scott Granados  > 
> wrote:
> 
> I was able to download 10.12.2 this morning, looks to be a public 
> release. 
> Enjoying it so far and find the initial stability issues from the beta 
> have been worked out.  Update em if you got em.
> 
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Re: Is development for OS Over?

[Scott Granados]

Wow, the NFB wrote something positive about built in screen readers?  Did 
someone see 4 horsemen around here somewhere?

> On Dec 16, 2016, at 7:58 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Yes, Android development is interesting.
> 
> Someone in the US NFB posted a blog post comparing TalkBack and VoiceOver. 
> The author loves the fact that Android is very configurable. The author also 
> comments a fair amount about many more unlabeled buttons.
> 
> The author admits that it takes a few attempts each time to activate the 
> angle gestures, which call up the global and local menus. So, the author 
> usually does not use the global and local menus. Well, not using these menus 
> is similar to not using the rotor in VoiceOver. It would make things more 
> difficult, unless one merely uses basic iOS functionality.
> 
> Given that I use my iPhone to run my business, I would not be able to do so 
> with an Android device (I have two of them). I need the advanced 
> functionality.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 17/12/2016, at 00:48, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I think we should with hold that opinion until the next round of phones, the 
>> 10th anniversary version is supposed to be a radical change.
>> 
>> Then again though, why change something that works?  Performance 
>> improvements and such are great but really the platform is pretty good.  I 
>> hear people make these claims but my point is who’s doing better?  
>> Definitely not Microsoft, windows 10 sucks, Google is doing interesting 
>> things but behind the curve, Linux is also interesting but pretty 
>> specialized for we engineering and systems folks.  Who has a better option 
>> right now?  For all the griping we have on list try using an Android device 
>> and get back to me.:). People are catching up to Apple so I hope there is a 
>> jump ahead but they still aren’t there.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 3:34 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I believe development is continuing in both OSX and IOS 
>>> 
>>> The rumour a couple of years ago was that apple were working to combine 
>>> both OS so that they have one operating system on all devices.
>>> 
>>> Hints of this are able to be seen in the two operating systems now,
>>> 
>>> Calendar, contacts, reminders, etc,
>>> They used to be called things like address book, iCal  iChat etc.
>>> 
>>> iCloud drive between devices and multiple platforms, 
>>> 
>>> keep an eye out things wil be changing but I do have to admit I believe 
>>> apple have somewhat stopped moving forward with enovated designing 
>>> and this I believe is simply Steve Jobbs was the enovator and currently no 
>>> one else in apple is showing the ability to think outside the box.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
>>> Sent: Friday, 16 December 2016 1:38 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Is development for OS Over?
>>> 
>>> There will be a new line of iMacs coming out sometime next year.  They 
>>> delayed them, cause they need to find a way to put the touch bar on the 
>>> keyboard that ships with it.  Personally, nothing exciting has changed 
>>> since mavericks, but they foot print is getting smaller, just glad updates 
>>> are free, based on the lack of changes we have seen.  From what the reviews 
>>> and reports say about the 2016 MacBook Pro, they probably should have 
>>> waited on those too.
 On Dec 15, 2016, at 5:12 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 Just a question for you all.
 
 Please note I don't test beta's as I don't have time but have been 
 wondering is development over for the Mac OS?  For the last six years 
 since I've used the Mac, only small things have changed.  I as you most 
 know, use a Mac and Mac Mini as I don't have any need for a portable 
 machine.  Apple bring out new lap tops but they don't bring out a new desk 
 top so am wondering if Apple are finished with the computer side of their 
 OS.  They have also got rid of their mac safe wire and their airport 
 extremes.  I am very sad that Apple should want to do this.  In fact 
 access technology has been standing still since the talking I phone came 
 out.  I wonder where access technology is going.  I want something new to 
 excite me as I use to get excited over new technology but these days it's 
 the same old, same old.  I don't think an new I phone will grip a blind 
 person any more so I'm wondering what is next to make us so crazy.
 
 Kawal.
 
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Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[E.T.]

Scott,
   Now really, you need to stop running all those marathons. (smiles)

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "Lord, Help me become the person
  my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 12/16/2016 8:41 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

Wow, think of the porn possibilities.;)


On Dec 16, 2016, at 11:39 AM, E.T.  wrote:

  Well now, this is a very intriguing one. I wonder if Duxbury is aware of this.

  Very good one, Donna, thanks for sharing it which is certainly not OT.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "Lord, Help me become the person
 my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 12/16/2016 5:55 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

Hi all,

A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related, I
thought it would be of interest to many on the list.

http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-using-any-laser-printer-1673209/
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[Scott Granados]

Wow, think of the porn possibilities.;)

> On Dec 16, 2016, at 11:39 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Well now, this is a very intriguing one. I wonder if Duxbury is aware of 
> this.
> 
>   Very good one, Donna, thanks for sharing it which is certainly not OT.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "Lord, Help me become the person
>  my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 12/16/2016 5:55 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related, I
>> thought it would be of interest to many on the list.
>> 
>> http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-using-any-laser-printer-1673209/
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[E.T.]

   Well now, this is a very intriguing one. I wonder if Duxbury is 
aware of this.


   Very good one, Donna, thanks for sharing it which is certainly not OT.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "Lord, Help me become the person
  my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 12/16/2016 5:55 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

Hi all,

A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related, I
thought it would be of interest to many on the list.

http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-using-any-laser-printer-1673209/
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: OSX 10.12.2 released

[Scott Granados]

That script is so much better than the previous built in method

> On Dec 16, 2016, at 7:52 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
>   That is a truly handy script, especially these days.  thanks again, 
> Shawn.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Dec 15, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Shawn Krasniuk > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hey guys. For those of you who wanted the battery script, I'll paste the 
>> dropbox link at the end of the message. I was going to do this last night 
>> but I was tired and didn't have the energy to find it. To have it run, 
>> simply go to your Mackintosh HD in finder, then go to library than scripts. 
>> Find the Voiceover folder then paste the script. To use it, simply press 
>> right option+B.
>> As for Matthew's email problem, are you using VO+J to read your messages or 
>> are you pressing return? I press return when reading emails and this doesn't 
>> happen to me. Anyway, here's the Dropbox link.
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/elcxyjgmjyjlq3w/battery%20status.scpt?dl=0 
>> 
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>>> On Dec 15, 2016, at 1:54 AM, Simon Fogarty >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I didn't know of mail issues ether,
>>> 
>>> I do know that sierra might have a few issues on a 2009 iMac, 
>>> As I believe that is the bottom end of it's range.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>  
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> ] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark 
>>> Gilland
>>> Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2016 8:17 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released
>>> 
>>> I didn't know there were problems with Mail to start with. Mail seems to 
>>> work fine here, but perhaps I don't have mine configured like most would.
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Junior Lolley KG4ITD" >> >
>>> To: >> >
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 12:55 PM
>>> Subject: RE: OSX 10.12.2 released
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Has the problems with mail been fixed?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Junior Lolley kg4itd
>>> Liberty County Emergency Coordinator
>>> "The 3 C’s of life: choices, chances, and changes. You must make a choice 
>>> to 
>>> take a chance or your life will never change."
>>> Don't impress others with what you have; impress them with who you are.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>  
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> ] On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 11:48 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released
>>> 
>>> Yup, was released yesterday afternoon about 1 EST
 On Dec 14, 2016, at 11:44 AM, Scott Granados > 
 wrote:
 
 I was able to download 10.12.2 this morning, looks to be a public release. 
 Enjoying it so far and find the initial stability issues from the beta 
 have been worked out.  Update em if you got em.
 
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Re: Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Not OT at all, if you consider that Mac users can use laser printers just the 
same as any other user.  We'd also have more need for this application of the 
product.  Even though I don't use Braille myself, this is a very innovative 
idea.

Thanks for sharing.

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Dec 16, 2016, at 06:55, Donna Goodin  wrote:

Hi all,

A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related, I thought it 
would be of interest to many on the list.  

http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-using-any-laser-printer-1673209/
 

 
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: OSX 10.12.2 released

[Tim Kilburn]

thanks Shawn.  does the trick.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Dec 15, 2016, at 17:44, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:

Hey guys. For those of you who wanted the battery script, I'll paste the 
dropbox link at the end of the message. I was going to do this last night but I 
was tired and didn't have the energy to find it. To have it run, simply go to 
your Mackintosh HD in finder, then go to library than scripts. Find the 
Voiceover folder then paste the script. To use it, simply press right option+B.
As for Matthew's email problem, are you using VO+J to read your messages or are 
you pressing return? I press return when reading emails and this doesn't happen 
to me. Anyway, here's the Dropbox link.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/elcxyjgmjyjlq3w/battery%20status.scpt?dl=0 


Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
> On Dec 15, 2016, at 1:54 AM, Simon Fogarty  > wrote:
> 
> I didn't know of mail issues ether,
> 
> I do know that sierra might have a few issues on a 2009 iMac, 
> As I believe that is the bottom end of it's range.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> ] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark 
> Gilland
> Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2016 8:17 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released
> 
> I didn't know there were problems with Mail to start with. Mail seems to work 
> fine here, but perhaps I don't have mine configured like most would.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Junior Lolley KG4ITD"  >
> To: >
> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 12:55 PM
> Subject: RE: OSX 10.12.2 released
> 
> 
> Has the problems with mail been fixed?
> 
> 
> 
> Junior Lolley kg4itd
> Liberty County Emergency Coordinator
> "The 3 C’s of life: choices, chances, and changes. You must make a choice to 
> take a chance or your life will never change."
> Don't impress others with what you have; impress them with who you are.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> ] On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 11:48 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released
> 
> Yup, was released yesterday afternoon about 1 EST
>> On Dec 14, 2016, at 11:44 AM, Scott Granados > > 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I was able to download 10.12.2 this morning, looks to be a public release. 
>> Enjoying it so far and find the initial stability issues from the beta 
>> have been worked out.  Update em if you got em.
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
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>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>>  and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>> 
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>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
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> 

Re: contacts problem

[Jonathan Cohn]

First, check on the web or another Apple device to make sure your contacts
are still in the Cloud.

If they are then do a backup of the contacts, Macintosh's have a save
function and possibly a export function. You would need to select all
contacts and then use either the export or save as functions.


If you want, you could even open the export file with textedit to verify
content is there.

Next you should look at your iCloud settings on the phone. Disconnect
contacts if it is selected and then wait a little and restart phone. Now
re-enable iCloud contacts, they should only take a few seconds to
synchronize on anything faster than 56kbs.

If this doesn't work then hopefully you have at least received an error
message somewhere along in the process.

 Best Wishes,

Jonathan Cohn

On 16 December 2016 at 10:35, E.T.  wrote:

>Reboot the phone?
>
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>   "Lord, Help me become the person
>   my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>
>
> On 12/16/2016 7:33 AM, jeff `greene wrote:
>
>> Hi, Well, I updated my iPhone 7 to 10.2 and all my contacts are gone.
>> Since the update I've put the phone on the charger overnight hoping
>> icloud would download my contacts, but no luck. Any suggestions?
>> Thanks Jeff
>>
>>
> --
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> Visionaries list.
>
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> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
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> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
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Re: contacts problem

[E.T.]

   Reboot the phone?

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "Lord, Help me become the person
  my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 12/16/2016 7:33 AM, jeff `greene wrote:

Hi, Well, I updated my iPhone 7 to 10.2 and all my contacts are gone.
Since the update I've put the phone on the charger overnight hoping
icloud would download my contacts, but no luck. Any suggestions?
Thanks Jeff



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contacts problem

[jeff `greene]

Hi, Well, I updated my iPhone 7 to 10.2 and all my contacts are gone.
Since the update I've put the phone on the charger overnight hoping
icloud would download my contacts, but no luck. Any suggestions?
Thanks Jeff

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Creating notes in voice dream reader

[Phil Halton]

After selecting text and voice dream reader and then double tapping, one of the 
options available is to make a note. I tried this feature out, and then tap to 
save thinking the note would be placed somewhere in the notes app. However I 
cannot find the note anywhere in the notes file structure either on iCloud or 
in any of the subfolders. Neither do notes appear anywhere in the voice dream 
reader app that I can find. Does anyone know or have experience with the notes 
feature in voice dream reader, specifically where are the notes stored and how 
can we retrieve them.


Sent from my IPhone

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Re: Is development for OS Over?

[Erik Burggraaf]

Hi, this may be off-topic, but I believe there is a little bit of 
misinformation here.


It is possible to use granularities without using the L-shaped gestures. 
For example, I have a single flick down set to swipe to next granularity, 
and a single flick up set to swipe to previous granularity. I can go 
through words characters lines paragraphs, and even the HTML elements that 
are available in the granularity menu. This is not quite as robust as the 
iOS router, but I believe that it is easier in the short term that learning 
to use the router. While I have no problem using the router myself, many of 
my customers did at least at first. Most of them picked it up eventually, 
but it definitely took practice and effort, just as the L-shaped gestures 
do. After much practice, I have no problem with the L shape gestures 
anymore either, and use them on a regular basis.


Regarding labeling of Graphics, this is something that should be handled by 
Developers. New paradigm philosophy requires that developers insert Tags 
and ID's for everything. It shouldn't be up to a screen reader to assign 
labels, however, talk back can label graphics. I'm not sure if you can do 
this on iOS, but on Android you can backup your graphics files, and you can 
share your graphicsfiles.  Inclusive android.com has a feature that allows 
users to share their Graphics label files.  Once a plethora of graphic 
files become available for download, it should take a lot of the pressure 
off of developers of popular applications to go through  and fix that which 
was actually broken. It should also allow users to get up and running 
quicker out of the box.


I still prefer iOS for browsing the internet, and reading on my Braille 
display. I definitely use Android far more often though. I use it for 
typing and word processing, checking my email, managing web host and FTP 
servers, numerous forms of entertainment, transportation and mobility, and 
all types of communication. All of the most popular Crossover apps, such as 
Microsoft Office, Skype, TuneIn Radio, WhatsApp Messenger, and so on are 
just as accessible and work very similarly on both IOS and Android. I am a 
regular user and admirer of both platforms comma and I would hate to see 
someone directed away from a device they think they might like, just 
because there's information out there saying the device isn't fully 
accessible when it actually is.


Best,

Erik

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


On December 16, 2016 7:59:41 AM David Chittenden  wrote:


Yes, Android development is interesting.

Someone in the US NFB posted a blog post comparing TalkBack and VoiceOver. 
The author loves the fact that Android is very configurable. The author 
also comments a fair amount about many more unlabeled buttons.


The author admits that it takes a few attempts each time to activate the 
angle gestures, which call up the global and local menus. So, the author 
usually does not use the global and local menus. Well, not using these 
menus is similar to not using the rotor in VoiceOver. It would make things 
more difficult, unless one merely uses basic iOS functionality.


Given that I use my iPhone to run my business, I would not be able to do so 
with an Android device (I have two of them). I need the advanced functionality.


David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone


On 17/12/2016, at 00:48, Scott Granados  wrote:

I think we should with hold that opinion until the next round of phones, 
the 10th anniversary version is supposed to be a radical change.


Then again though, why change something that works?  Performance 
improvements and such are great but really the platform is pretty good.  I 
hear people make these claims but my point is who’s doing better?  
Definitely not Microsoft, windows 10 sucks, Google is doing interesting 
things but behind the curve, Linux is also interesting but pretty 
specialized for we engineering and systems folks.  Who has a better option 
right now?  For all the griping we have on list try using an Android device 
and get back to me.:). People are catching up to Apple so I hope there is a 
jump ahead but they still aren’t there.





On Dec 16, 2016, at 3:34 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:

I believe development is continuing in both OSX and IOS

The rumour a couple of years ago was that apple were working to combine 
both OS so that they have one operating system on all devices.


Hints of this are able to be seen in the two operating systems now,

Calendar, contacts, reminders, etc,
They used to be called things like address book, iCal  iChat etc.

iCloud drive between devices and multiple platforms,

keep an eye out things wil be changing but I do have to admit I believe 
apple have somewhat stopped moving forward with enovated designing
and this I believe is simply Steve Jobbs was the enovator and 

Kinda OT: Samsung invents touchable ink to allow regular laser printers to generate braille

[Donna Goodin]

Hi all,

A friend sent this to me, and though not specifically Mac related, I thought it 
would be of interest to many on the list.  

http://www.geek.com/tech/samsungs-touchable-ink-prints-braille-using-any-laser-printer-1673209/
 

 
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Is development for OS Over?

[David Chittenden]

Yes, Android development is interesting.

Someone in the US NFB posted a blog post comparing TalkBack and VoiceOver. The 
author loves the fact that Android is very configurable. The author also 
comments a fair amount about many more unlabeled buttons.

The author admits that it takes a few attempts each time to activate the angle 
gestures, which call up the global and local menus. So, the author usually does 
not use the global and local menus. Well, not using these menus is similar to 
not using the rotor in VoiceOver. It would make things more difficult, unless 
one merely uses basic iOS functionality.

Given that I use my iPhone to run my business, I would not be able to do so 
with an Android device (I have two of them). I need the advanced functionality.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 17/12/2016, at 00:48, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> I think we should with hold that opinion until the next round of phones, the 
> 10th anniversary version is supposed to be a radical change.
> 
> Then again though, why change something that works?  Performance improvements 
> and such are great but really the platform is pretty good.  I hear people 
> make these claims but my point is who’s doing better?  Definitely not 
> Microsoft, windows 10 sucks, Google is doing interesting things but behind 
> the curve, Linux is also interesting but pretty specialized for we 
> engineering and systems folks.  Who has a better option right now?  For all 
> the griping we have on list try using an Android device and get back to 
> me.:). People are catching up to Apple so I hope there is a jump ahead but 
> they still aren’t there.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 3:34 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> I believe development is continuing in both OSX and IOS 
>> 
>> The rumour a couple of years ago was that apple were working to combine both 
>> OS so that they have one operating system on all devices.
>> 
>> Hints of this are able to be seen in the two operating systems now,
>> 
>> Calendar, contacts, reminders, etc,
>> They used to be called things like address book, iCal  iChat etc.
>> 
>> iCloud drive between devices and multiple platforms, 
>> 
>> keep an eye out things wil be changing but I do have to admit I believe 
>> apple have somewhat stopped moving forward with enovated designing 
>> and this I believe is simply Steve Jobbs was the enovator and currently no 
>> one else in apple is showing the ability to think outside the box.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
>> Sent: Friday, 16 December 2016 1:38 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Is development for OS Over?
>> 
>> There will be a new line of iMacs coming out sometime next year.  They 
>> delayed them, cause they need to find a way to put the touch bar on the 
>> keyboard that ships with it.  Personally, nothing exciting has changed since 
>> mavericks, but they foot print is getting smaller, just glad updates are 
>> free, based on the lack of changes we have seen.  From what the reviews and 
>> reports say about the 2016 MacBook Pro, they probably should have waited on 
>> those too.
>>> On Dec 15, 2016, at 5:12 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just a question for you all.
>>> 
>>> Please note I don't test beta's as I don't have time but have been 
>>> wondering is development over for the Mac OS?  For the last six years since 
>>> I've used the Mac, only small things have changed.  I as you most know, use 
>>> a Mac and Mac Mini as I don't have any need for a portable machine.  Apple 
>>> bring out new lap tops but they don't bring out a new desk top so am 
>>> wondering if Apple are finished with the computer side of their OS.  They 
>>> have also got rid of their mac safe wire and their airport extremes.  I am 
>>> very sad that Apple should want to do this.  In fact access technology has 
>>> been standing still since the talking I phone came out.  I wonder where 
>>> access technology is going.  I want something new to excite me as I use to 
>>> get excited over new technology but these days it's the same old, same old. 
>>>  I don't think an new I phone will grip a blind person any more so I'm 
>>> wondering what is next to make us so crazy.
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at 

Re: OSX 10.12.2 released

[Donna Goodin]

That is a truly handy script, especially these days.  thanks again, 
Shawn.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Dec 15, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hey guys. For those of you who wanted the battery script, I'll paste the 
> dropbox link at the end of the message. I was going to do this last night but 
> I was tired and didn't have the energy to find it. To have it run, simply go 
> to your Mackintosh HD in finder, then go to library than scripts. Find the 
> Voiceover folder then paste the script. To use it, simply press right 
> option+B.
> As for Matthew's email problem, are you using VO+J to read your messages or 
> are you pressing return? I press return when reading emails and this doesn't 
> happen to me. Anyway, here's the Dropbox link.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/elcxyjgmjyjlq3w/battery%20status.scpt?dl=0 
> 
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>> On Dec 15, 2016, at 1:54 AM, Simon Fogarty > > wrote:
>> 
>> I didn't know of mail issues ether,
>> 
>> I do know that sierra might have a few issues on a 2009 iMac, 
>> As I believe that is the bottom end of it's range.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>  
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> ] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark 
>> Gilland
>> Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2016 8:17 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released
>> 
>> I didn't know there were problems with Mail to start with. Mail seems to 
>> work fine here, but perhaps I don't have mine configured like most would.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Junior Lolley KG4ITD" > >
>> To: > >
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 12:55 PM
>> Subject: RE: OSX 10.12.2 released
>> 
>> 
>> Has the problems with mail been fixed?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Junior Lolley kg4itd
>> Liberty County Emergency Coordinator
>> "The 3 C’s of life: choices, chances, and changes. You must make a choice to 
>> take a chance or your life will never change."
>> Don't impress others with what you have; impress them with who you are.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>  
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> ] On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 11:48 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released
>> 
>> Yup, was released yesterday afternoon about 1 EST
>>> On Dec 14, 2016, at 11:44 AM, Scott Granados >> > 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I was able to download 10.12.2 this morning, looks to be a public release. 
>>> Enjoying it so far and find the initial stability issues from the beta 
>>> have been worked out.  Update em if you got em.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
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>>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>>>  and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- 
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>> 
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>> 
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Re: OSX 10.12.2 released

[Donna Goodin]

Thank you so much for sharing this, Shawn!
Cheers,
Donna
> On Dec 15, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hey guys. For those of you who wanted the battery script, I'll paste the 
> dropbox link at the end of the message. I was going to do this last night but 
> I was tired and didn't have the energy to find it. To have it run, simply go 
> to your Mackintosh HD in finder, then go to library than scripts. Find the 
> Voiceover folder then paste the script. To use it, simply press right 
> option+B.
> As for Matthew's email problem, are you using VO+J to read your messages or 
> are you pressing return? I press return when reading emails and this doesn't 
> happen to me. Anyway, here's the Dropbox link.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/elcxyjgmjyjlq3w/battery%20status.scpt?dl=0 
> 
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>> On Dec 15, 2016, at 1:54 AM, Simon Fogarty > > wrote:
>> 
>> I didn't know of mail issues ether,
>> 
>> I do know that sierra might have a few issues on a 2009 iMac, 
>> As I believe that is the bottom end of it's range.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>  
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> ] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark 
>> Gilland
>> Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2016 8:17 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released
>> 
>> I didn't know there were problems with Mail to start with. Mail seems to 
>> work fine here, but perhaps I don't have mine configured like most would.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Junior Lolley KG4ITD" > >
>> To: > >
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 12:55 PM
>> Subject: RE: OSX 10.12.2 released
>> 
>> 
>> Has the problems with mail been fixed?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Junior Lolley kg4itd
>> Liberty County Emergency Coordinator
>> "The 3 C’s of life: choices, chances, and changes. You must make a choice to 
>> take a chance or your life will never change."
>> Don't impress others with what you have; impress them with who you are.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>  
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> ] On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 11:48 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Subject: Re: OSX 10.12.2 released
>> 
>> Yup, was released yesterday afternoon about 1 EST
>>> On Dec 14, 2016, at 11:44 AM, Scott Granados >> > 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I was able to download 10.12.2 this morning, looks to be a public release. 
>>> Enjoying it so far and find the initial stability issues from the beta 
>>> have been worked out.  Update em if you got em.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>>>  and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than 

Re: thoughts on battery after update

[Donna Goodin]

I haven't made much use of hot spots, but that's a good idea.  I'll give it a 
try.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Dec 15, 2016, at 9:27 PM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> Actually, though I have not yet installed the update, there is a good chance 
> you could set a hot spot on the power dialog and then use VO-Command-HotSpot 
> to check the battery level and stay in your current application.
> 
>   Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 15, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Donna Goodin > > wrote:
>> 
>> That's exactly what I plan to do for the time being.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Dec 15, 2016, at 3:56 PM, E.T. >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>>  Open the Energy preferences and leave focus on the battery charge item 
>>> which reads in percentage. Just switch windows now and then to check it.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "Lord, Help me become the person
>>> my dog thinks I am." --Dawn Ewing
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>>> 
>>> On 12/15/2016 1:47 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 Don't get me wrong, I'll never defend all the crazy things FS has done.  
 But no, if I'm in a meeting or some other public environment where I'm 
 paying attention to other things, I don't want to have to go into 
 applications, then into utilities, then Open the Activity Monitor, then 
 bring up the item chooser so that I can see the battery level.  That's too 
 many steps for something so very basic.  If Apple is really committed to 
 accessibility, information such as battery level should be available to me 
 with the same ease that it is available to a sighted user.
 
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Dec 15, 2016, at 3:42 PM, Scott Granados  > wrote:
> 
> I have to say I think that’s crazy. It’s not like the data isn’t easily 
> available.  Sure it’s a step backwards, no disagreement there but easily 
> fixed, I’m sure it will be addressed and the data is still available 
> through alternate means.  We’re talking about adding an Apple script or 
> using a monitoring tool here not having to work around in some crazy 
> cursor mode and click with a mouse because the keyboard commands don’t 
> focus correctly or any number of issues you run in to on the windows 
> side.  I would agree if there was no access to battery level but the fact 
> is there still is and not just in one alternate way but many.
> 
> Just stop and think for a half second of all the things Freedom 
> Scientific have broken in their history and they are a dedicated 
> accessibility company.  I rest my case.
> 
>> On Dec 15, 2016, at 4:39 PM, Donna Goodin > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Tim,
>> 
>> I certainly wouldn't relish going back to Windows, but for me it would 
>> be a matter of principle.  Having access to battery information is for 
>> me a non-negotiable component of portable computing, and if a company 
>> thinks that blind users should be OK living without that, I'm not OK 
>> with them.  This is all the more true in the wake of that video that was 
>> shown at the last Apple event where they touted their commitment to 
>> accessibility.  So, I wouldn't want to go back to Windows, but I would 
>> feel that this decision by Apple flies in the face of their own stated 
>> values, and leaves me with a computer I'm not comfortable trusting when 
>> i don't have access to AC.
>> 
>> At any rate, hopefully this will be fixed soon, and so will be  moot 
>> point.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Dec 15, 2016, at 2:56 PM, Tim Kilburn >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I agree with Donna that it is a step backwards to have something 
>>> visible to the sighted user, but not present to the VO user.  Scott, 
>>> that's pleasing if they're working on it in 10.12.3.  All they really 
>>> need to do is make the indicator announce/display things exactly the 
>>> same for when the machine is using the power adaptor or the battery.  
>>> It does announce things just fine in 10.12.2 if you're plugged in, but 
>>> it's absent when on battery power.
>>> 
>>> I wouldn't go quite so far as to purchase a Windows laptop just because 
>>> of this, as there's far too many advantages to my Mac experience to go 
>>> that direction.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Dec 15, 2016, at 13:45, Scott Granados >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Actually strike that, it’s not quite but it looks like work is being 
>>> 

Re: Is development for OS Over?

[Scott Granados]

I think we should with hold that opinion until the next round of phones, the 
10th anniversary version is supposed to be a radical change.

Then again though, why change something that works?  Performance improvements 
and such are great but really the platform is pretty good.  I hear people make 
these claims but my point is who’s doing better?  Definitely not Microsoft, 
windows 10 sucks, Google is doing interesting things but behind the curve, 
Linux is also interesting but pretty specialized for we engineering and systems 
folks.  Who has a better option right now?  For all the griping we have on list 
try using an Android device and get back to me.:). People are catching up to 
Apple so I hope there is a jump ahead but they still aren’t there.


  
> On Dec 16, 2016, at 3:34 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> I believe development is continuing in both OSX and IOS 
> 
> The rumour a couple of years ago was that apple were working to combine both 
> OS so that they have one operating system on all devices.
> 
> Hints of this are able to be seen in the two operating systems now,
> 
> Calendar, contacts, reminders, etc,
> They used to be called things like address book, iCal  iChat etc.
> 
> iCloud drive between devices and multiple platforms, 
> 
>  keep an eye out things wil be changing but I do have to admit I believe 
> apple have somewhat stopped moving forward with enovated designing 
> and this I believe is simply Steve Jobbs was the enovator and currently no 
> one else in apple is showing the ability to think outside the box.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
> Sent: Friday, 16 December 2016 1:38 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Is development for OS Over?
> 
> There will be a new line of iMacs coming out sometime next year.  They 
> delayed them, cause they need to find a way to put the touch bar on the 
> keyboard that ships with it.  Personally, nothing exciting has changed since 
> mavericks, but they foot print is getting smaller, just glad updates are 
> free, based on the lack of changes we have seen.  From what the reviews and 
> reports say about the 2016 MacBook Pro, they probably should have waited on 
> those too.
>> On Dec 15, 2016, at 5:12 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Just a question for you all.
>> 
>> Please note I don't test beta's as I don't have time but have been wondering 
>> is development over for the Mac OS?  For the last six years since I've used 
>> the Mac, only small things have changed.  I as you most know, use a Mac and 
>> Mac Mini as I don't have any need for a portable machine.  Apple bring out 
>> new lap tops but they don't bring out a new desk top so am wondering if 
>> Apple are finished with the computer side of their OS.  They have also got 
>> rid of their mac safe wire and their airport extremes.  I am very sad that 
>> Apple should want to do this.  In fact access technology has been standing 
>> still since the talking I phone came out.  I wonder where access technology 
>> is going.  I want something new to excite me as I use to get excited over 
>> new technology but these days it's the same old, same old.  I don't think an 
>> new I phone will grip a blind person any more so I'm wondering what is next 
>> to make us so crazy.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 

Re: icloud want let me sign in

[Scott Granados]

Ray, that’s not the problem he’s having.  He’s aware of the code and you’re 
absolutely right it’s 2factor.

THere’s no 6 boxes in his case though like there is with more modern versions 
of the OS.  It sounds like to me he’s trying to register and sign in on an 
older device.  What he needs to do is enter his password with the 6 digits 
appended to the end of the password. I’ve had this problem recently as well and 
not sure the issue because sometimes the password is being rewritten and 
changed when the pin is appended to the end.  I would call Apple, this may be a 
problem introduced or it could be me being a bonehead behind the keyboard.:).  
Maybe someone else has experience this as well and knows the solution.  I 
notice this problem when logging in to 2factor enabled accounts with older 
operating systems pre IOS 8 and pre Yosemite I believe, I’ve really found this 
issue on the IOS side.

Doesn’t help much but at least helps define the problem a bit more.


> On Dec 16, 2016, at 6:10 AM, Ray Foret jr  wrote:
> 
> Sounds like what has happened to you is that you have two factor 
> authentication turned on.  IF the special code shows up on your iPHone, you 
> need to make sure your curser is focused on the six boxes for that code.  as 
> you enter each digit, you are moved along to the next box.  Now, here’s 
> another posibility.  Maybe the code you need is showing up in a seperate 
> window on your desk top machine.  In any case, you can just enter that code 
> in to the six boxes and you should be fine.  ON my Mac, one is moved from one 
> box to the next automatically   IF you are using a windows desk top, I cannot 
> say for sure that this happens:  but, based on your description, I’d guess it 
> ain’t happening for you that way.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
> 
> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
> iPhone7+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Dec 15, 2016, at 10:05 PM, Robert Cole > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> After not using my MacBook and iPod for a while, iCloud asked me to enter my 
>> password.
>> after doing so, i received a code on my iPhone saying to enter my password 
>> followed by this code in the password field.
>> Here is where I need help.
>> I entered my password and the code with no space,
>> I even tried entering the password then a space and then the code.
>> last, I just entered the code , but it says invalid password and gives me 
>> the option to reset my password and I don’t want to do that.
>> This happened on my MacBook and my iPod.
>> Please help.
>> thanks,
>> rob
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>>  and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> --- 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
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> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to 

Re: icloud want let me sign in

[Ray Foret jr]

Sounds like what has happened to you is that you have two factor authentication 
turned on.  IF the special code shows up on your iPHone, you need to make sure 
your curser is focused on the six boxes for that code.  as you enter each 
digit, you are moved along to the next box.  Now, here’s another posibility.  
Maybe the code you need is showing up in a seperate window on your desk top 
machine.  In any case, you can just enter that code in to the six boxes and you 
should be fine.  ON my Mac, one is moved from one box to the next automatically 
  IF you are using a windows desk top, I cannot say for sure that this happens: 
 but, based on your description, I’d guess it ain’t happening for you that way.


Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
iPhone7+ and Apple TV user!

> On Dec 15, 2016, at 10:05 PM, Robert Cole  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> After not using my MacBook and iPod for a while, iCloud asked me to enter my 
> password.
> after doing so, i received a code on my iPhone saying to enter my password 
> followed by this code in the password field.
> Here is where I need help.
> I entered my password and the code with no space,
> I even tried entering the password then a space and then the code.
> last, I just entered the code , but it says invalid password and gives me the 
> option to reset my password and I don’t want to do that.
> This happened on my MacBook and my iPod.
> Please help.
> thanks,
> rob
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
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moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

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macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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RE: Is development for OS Over?

[Simon Fogarty]

I believe development is continuing in both OSX and IOS 

The rumour a couple of years ago was that apple were working to combine both OS 
so that they have one operating system on all devices.

 Hints of this are able to be seen in the two operating systems now,

 Calendar, contacts, reminders, etc,
 They used to be called things like address book, iCal  iChat etc.

 iCloud drive between devices and multiple platforms, 

  keep an eye out things wil be changing but I do have to admit I believe apple 
have somewhat stopped moving forward with enovated designing 
and this I believe is simply Steve Jobbs was the enovator and currently no one 
else in apple is showing the ability to think outside the box.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
Sent: Friday, 16 December 2016 1:38 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Is development for OS Over?

There will be a new line of iMacs coming out sometime next year.  They delayed 
them, cause they need to find a way to put the touch bar on the keyboard that 
ships with it.  Personally, nothing exciting has changed since mavericks, but 
they foot print is getting smaller, just glad updates are free, based on the 
lack of changes we have seen.  From what the reviews and reports say about the 
2016 MacBook Pro, they probably should have waited on those too.
> On Dec 15, 2016, at 5:12 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Just a question for you all.
> 
> Please note I don't test beta's as I don't have time but have been wondering 
> is development over for the Mac OS?  For the last six years since I've used 
> the Mac, only small things have changed.  I as you most know, use a Mac and 
> Mac Mini as I don't have any need for a portable machine.  Apple bring out 
> new lap tops but they don't bring out a new desk top so am wondering if Apple 
> are finished with the computer side of their OS.  They have also got rid of 
> their mac safe wire and their airport extremes.  I am very sad that Apple 
> should want to do this.  In fact access technology has been standing still 
> since the talking I phone came out.  I wonder where access technology is 
> going.  I want something new to excite me as I use to get excited over new 
> technology but these days it's the same old, same old.  I don't think an new 
> I phone will grip a blind person any more so I'm wondering what is next to 
> make us so crazy.
> 
> Kawal.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Re: Odd Apple watch behaviour.

[David Chittenden]

If it is the Series 2 Apple Watch, Apple withdrew the update.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 16/12/2016, at 20:33, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I can’t update my watch.
> THe Iphone keeps telling me that it can’t verify the update because i am not 
> connected to the internet.
> Wel, i am connected to the internet.
> I have removed the app from app switcher i also have restarted my phone.
> I am on Ios 10.2.1 Beta 1 so i am wondering if it has to do with that?
> 
> Any thoughts?
> /A
> 
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RE: more on problem opening docs in Pages

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Donna,

 Have you tried the option of deleting pages and then re installing?

You shouldn't of course have to but possibly it's a way around the issues.
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Friday, 16 December 2016 2:28 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: more on problem opening docs in Pages

Hi Simon,

The problem I'm having now is that the update won't download.  On the app store 
page, several reviewers also seem to have experienced this problem.  Not sure 
how Apple expects people to update to the latest version if the update can't be 
downloaded. *sigh*  Lately, I'm feeling like the brains of the Apple engineers 
have all gone out to lunch.

As for Anne and John's book, meaning no disrespect to their hard work, my word 
processing needs are pretty simple.  If I need a book just to do the basic 
things I want to do, then Pages isn't worth it.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Dec 15, 2016, at 2:01 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna,
> 
> Try updating yoru os to the latest version if you haven't got it already.
> 
> As for using pages 
> 
> I believe Jonathan Mosem has a book for sale on his site that is a great 
> guide to using Pages,
> 
> It was written by one of the members of this list Ann Robertson I think it is.
> 
> I cant remember the cost but it would be worthwhile  purchasing 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2016 9:54 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: more on problem opening docs in Pages
> 
> OK, so this all just gets weirder and weirder.  If I open the docs I created 
> on my phone from iCloud drive on my Mac, they open in Pages just fine.  It's 
> only when I try and open them from within Pages that I get the error message 
> described earlier.
> 
> Also, I'm still unable to write in the document I created in Pages on my Mac. 
>  I suppose a work-around would be to create the document from my phone, then 
> open it in iCloud, but that is seriously lame
> 
> I really have no idea what to make of all this, so if anyone else does, my 
> thanks in advance.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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