date:20200702

And another one bites the dust.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Petrus Tuerlings
Sent: Friday, 3 July 2020 7:28 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Moderator Note - Signatures and Politics etc on the List

Hi Cara,
Thank you for replying. Unfortunately I don’t think I can remain on this list.
I’d like to say thank you to all of those people that helped me with my Mac 
over the last year and a half.
People would be most welcome to keep in touch off list.
petrus.t...@gmail.com

On 3/07/2020, at 06:05, Cara Quinn 
mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>> wrote:

Hi All,

Firstly, please let me apologize for the delay in writing. My keeping up with 
each topic these days has been in fits and starts.

I want to thank a hand full of kind souls who highlighted the recent troubling 
thread. -And I needed to make sure I read through the thread(s) in entirety 
before I spoke.

Regrettably, we have people who have either left this list over the last couple 
of days or those who feel that that might be appropriate.

To address at least some of what has happened here, I’d just like to say first 
of all, that here on this list, everyone is viewed and treated equally. Every 
race, creed and color is equal here. This goes for our attitudes and opinions 
as well.

this does not mean however, that this list is a place to express all attitudes 
and opinions., This list is no place for political discussions, plain and 
simple.

Please keep all discussions of politics and political themes off this list.

This list is also no place for deliberately inflammatory speech. What this 
means, is that in the case of signatures, if someone has a sig that simplly 
states how they personally feel and is not aimed at anyone, then that sig is 
allowed. This is free speech.

However, if that signature is being used as a way to get a public message out 
without actually coming right out and saying that message; and using this list 
as a vehicle to do so, then that is absolutely not allowed here.

There is enough going on in the world today that people who would like to share 
their political views in discussion or debate should have ample forums in which 
to do so. This list is not one of them.

This list is a technology list so that is where our discussions should be 
focused.

If you feel you need to get a message out or feel that you cannot be respectful 
of others and their experiences or cannot at the very least, be polite, then 
this list is not the place for you.

Please consider going somewhere else.

Lastly, if someone offends you, please write them off-list. Please, whenever 
possible, be constructive and help de-escalate disagreements. We need to foster 
common ground and really help each other move ahead.

We are all users of Apple products here with certain needs in our daily usage 
of these products. We share these needs as well as the daily victories that 
these products enable us to have. Sometimes we have set-backs as well. We share 
those too.

We are one community here and even though this is just a mailing list in the 
grand scheme of things, we each provide help and support to each other here. 
That is our purpose.

So please keep this in mind when we write to each other here. Please bear in 
mind that we are people here; we all have lives and stories. We are much more 
than screen names. Please remember this and act to promote dignaty, respect and 
politeness.

It can really go a long way for all of us.

thank you all so much for reading this. Please know that I appreciate you and 
this community that we have all built here.

Let me wish you and yours well.
Please have a great holiday for those who celebrate and a great weekend for 
everyone!

Cheers!

Cara

--
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moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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Sent from Petrus' MacBook

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RE: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Thank  you I know this but the trying to stop the thread and it not stopping 
has lost us some really great people.

 And that F's me off to the max.



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: Friday, 3 July 2020 6:26 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Simon,
You are not  the reason Tim and others chose to depart.
Kare



On Thu, 2 Jul 2020, Simon A Fogarty wrote:

> Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,
>
> That wasn’t my intention to make it happen.
> Regards,
>
>
> Simon F
>
>
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Brad Snyder
> Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>
> I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been silent and 
> allowed this crap to go on.
> Unlike a Groups.io email list, I am not aware of a way to 
> mute a topic.
> It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from the 
> list.
>
> - Brad -
>
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson 
> mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to 
> this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I 
> can get mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I’ve seen here, and to 
> those who were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am 
> just hopeful of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting 
> them are gone.
>
>
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
> I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
> myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
> list.
>
> Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.
>
> Later…
>
>
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
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> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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>
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> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Frustrated with captcha.

2020-07-02 Thread 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries

Good luck, and let us know, Anders.

Janina

Anders Holmberg writes:
> Hi!
> Or perhaps safari cluttered things up.
> Will try on another browser lately this weekend.
> /A
> 
> > 2 juli 2020 kl. 15:37 skrev 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > :
> > 
> > I have two github identities and don't recall any problems signing up.
> > That probably means I found the audio captcha workable.
> > 
> > But, I also don't recall that you need to solve two of them. Are you
> > sure there are actually two? Perhaps they've written the screen prompts
> > in a confusing way?
> > 
> > Best,
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > Anders Holmberg writes:
> >> Hi!
> >> Trying to register to GitHub.
> >> But there’s a verification by captcha there.
> >> THe first one has an audio option but the next one is a puzzle.
> >> Is anyone here registered at github and may be able to give me some help.
> >> /A
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> >> Visionaries list.
> >> 
> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> >> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> >> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> >> 
> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> >> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> >> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >> 
> >> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> >> --- 
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> >> "MacVisionaries" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/EC6A1BFB-428B-4A4C-8832-7D5BA13A5E1B%40pipkrokodil.se.
> > 
> > -- 
> > 
> > Janina Sajka
> > https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka
> > 
> > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   http://a11y.org
> > 
> > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> > Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> > 
> > -- 
> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> > Visionaries list.
> > 
> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
> > or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> > 
> > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
> >  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> > caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> > 
> > The archives for this list can be searched at:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> > --- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "MacVisionaries" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200702133734.GS2673%40rednote.net.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
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> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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> --- 
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-- 

Janina Sajka
https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa

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Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:

Re: Enough is Enough.

2020-07-02 Thread Eric Oyen

Actually, Clara did respond and advised cessation of the politics. I added my 2 
cents worth afterward. Honestly, Politics doesn’t have anything to do with Mac 
accessibility, except where the law is concerned with accessibility in general. 
Anything else outside of that is just arguing to be arguing.

Anyway, the list owners have seen it and addressed it (I hope).

-Eric


> On Jul 2, 2020, at 3:52 PM, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Listers,
> 
> I'm going to ask this for the list and of the entire list!
> 
> As we've not been able to get hold of mark or Cara and we can't say they are 
> ignoring this thread as we don't know what their current situation is.
> 
> So as adults and in most cases respectfull of eachother,
> 
> I'd like to ask that we just 'STOP"  this post.
> 
> That way we can get rid of the related signature issue.
> 
> To those folks interested in the FireFox on the mac thread,
> Can we either start a new thread or change the signature to reflect a new 
> start?
> 
> As for the other issue,
> Please lets after this leave it alone and with luck it will die a natural 
> death!
> 
> Note we have already lost a number of members that we will miss and that were 
> / are part of the list family.
> 
> Time is to short these days for us to deal with this type of thing and I 
> advise people that if you get an email with any type of discriminatory or 
> racist / religious signature that you don't agree with,
> 
> Hit the delete button on it and don't worry about commenting,
> Remember ignorance is bliss and we all have times of blissness.
> 
> Thanks and I'm sorry to go on about this, 
> 
> But I have enough shit in my own life that I don't need to add this to it 
> also.
> 
> Take care and enjoy the world as a whole.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Robin
> Sent: Friday, 3 July 2020 5:07 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
> 
> MayBe that Person should Create a   NEW Thread, as This1 is Serverely 
> Derailed?
> Just Sayin
> 
> I  tried  & attempted to get This Thread Back On Track  to No Avail
> 
> At 10:00 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
>>Ok. To get this back on track, could someone please repost the 
>> original article on Firefox. This is of great interest to me. I have 
>> been messing with FF on the Mac for a long time and accessibility is 
>> finally improving again with VoiceOver. Itâ€™s actually to the point 
>> of being quite usable.
>> 
>> 
>> Take Care
>> 
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>> 
>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>> 
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> 
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:56 PM, 'E.T.' via
>> MacVisionaries  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  Cara Quinn, owner and Mark Taylor. 
>> moderator, their contact information is in the footer. And I doubt 
>> very much they support hatred.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Freedom of Speech Carries With
>>> It Implicit Responsibility.
>>> 
>>> On 7/2/2020 9:41 AM, Robin wrote:
 "Who" are The Moderators of This MailingList?
 &
 Wonder if "They" support The Views  of
>> TheMembers/Subscribers, which would be The Reason, "Why" they are 
>> Allowing This Thread to Continue
 EvenThough
 it's OFF Topic/Subject
 I've tried to Steer this Thread Back ON Topic/Subject to No Avail 
 At 04:05 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
> No thatÃ¢€™s why IÃ¢€™m sorry Jsorry Julie,
> 
> I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
> I believe it is time
>  To block the sender and trash their emails,
> 
> Which I hate to say could cause me to miss
>> emails of interest from other members.itÃ¢€™s just so interesting to 
>> hear how theseese perfect people react, must be difficult living in 
>> their close minded worlds.
> 
> Simon F
> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>  *On Behalf Of *Julie Rattray
> *Sent:* Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Endding the RE: article on
>> Firefox accessibility on the mac
> 
> It was not you that made people leave it is
>> rather the lack of a moderator stopping this I think that is the issue
> 
> 
>   On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty    > wrote:
> 
>   Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them 
> leaving,
> 
>   That wasnÃ¢€™t my intention to make it happen.
>> .
>   Regards,
> 
> 
>   Simon F
> 
> 
>   From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>   
>      > On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
>   Sent: Thursday, 2

RE: Moderator Note - Signatures and Politics etc on the List

HI Cara,

Thanks for this and we do understand that you can't always be there to over see 
things as we'd all like.
Take care.


Simon F
 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Cara Quinn
Sent: Friday, 3 July 2020 6:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Cc: Cara Quinn 
Subject: Moderator Note - Signatures and Politics etc on the List

Hi All,

Firstly, please let me apologize for the delay in writing. My keeping up with 
each topic these days has been in fits and starts.

I want to thank a hand full of kind souls who highlighted the recent troubling 
thread. -And I needed to make sure I read through the thread(s) in entirety 
before I spoke.

Regrettably, we have people who have either left this list over the last couple 
of days or those who feel that that might be appropriate.

To address at least some of what has happened here, I’d just like to say first 
of all, that here on this list, everyone is viewed and treated equally. Every 
race, creed and color is equal here. This goes for our attitudes and opinions 
as well.

this does not mean however, that this list is a place to express all attitudes 
and opinions., This list is no place for political discussions, plain and 
simple.

Please keep all discussions of politics and political themes off this list.

This list is also no place for deliberately inflammatory speech. What this 
means, is that in the case of signatures, if someone has a sig that simplly 
states how they personally feel and is not aimed at anyone, then that sig is 
allowed. This is free speech.

However, if that signature is being used as a way to get a public message out 
without actually coming right out and saying that message; and using this list 
as a vehicle to do so, then that is absolutely not allowed here.

There is enough going on in the world today that people who would like to share 
their political views in discussion or debate should have ample forums in which 
to do so. This list is not one of them.

This list is a technology list so that is where our discussions should be 
focused.

If you feel you need to get a message out or feel that you cannot be respectful 
of others and their experiences or cannot at the very least, be polite, then 
this list is not the place for you.

Please consider going somewhere else.

Lastly, if someone offends you, please write them off-list. Please, whenever 
possible, be constructive and help de-escalate disagreements. We need to foster 
common ground and really help each other move ahead.

We are all users of Apple products here with certain needs in our daily usage 
of these products. We share these needs as well as the daily victories that 
these products enable us to have. Sometimes we have set-backs as well. We share 
those too.

We are one community here and even though this is just a mailing list in the 
grand scheme of things, we each provide help and support to each other here. 
That is our purpose.

So please keep this in mind when we write to each other here. Please bear in 
mind that we are people here; we all have lives and stories. We are much more 
than screen names. Please remember this and act to promote dignaty, respect and 
politeness.

It can really go a long way for all of us.

thank you all so much for reading this. Please know that I appreciate you and 
this community that we have all built here.

Let me wish you and yours well.
Please have a great holiday for those who celebrate and a great weekend for 
everyone!

Cheers!

Cara


-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this

Re: Moderator Note - Signatures and Politics etc on the List


Oops, I   meant  ThisMessage to be Off the MailingList, MyApologies
At 03:52 PM 7/2/2020, you wrote:

Is This Mr.Eric i.e., the R  Guy from the MobileApp, Vorail?
Meanin' Back  in May2016 & June2016?
JustWonderin
At 02:11 PM 7/2/2020, you wrote:

Hmmm.
Never caught that thread. Usually, when I see 
politics, I simply delete and move on. 
Political discussions often devolve into 
meaningless arguments, insults, name calling, 
labeling and argumentative fallacies. I get 
enough of that on Facebook, twitter, tick tock, 
snapchat, what sap, and LinkedIn.


I think the only exception is politics but only 
where apple and itÃ¢€™s products are concerned,



BUT ONLY THAT. Once it goes OT, then thatÃ¢€™s



where it needs to end. Mind you, this is just my opinion.

Anyway, donÃ¢€™t drop off the list because of


politics. Simply delete the thread and move on. 
Believe me, it cuts down on the stress and gives you some control.


Just my 2 cents worth.

-Eric


> On Jul 2, 2020, at 11:05 AM, Cara Quinn  wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Firstly, please let me apologize for the 
delay in writing. My keeping up with each 
topic these days has been in fits and starts.

>
> I want to thank a hand full of kind souls 
who highlighted the recent troubling thread. 
-And I needed to make sure I read through the 
thread(s) in entirety before I spoke.

>
> Regrettably, we have people who have either 
left this list over the last couple of days or 
those who feel that that might be appropriate.

>
> To address at least some of what has 
happened here, IÃ¢€™d just like to say first of all, that


here on this list, everyone is viewed and 
treated equally. Every race, creed and color is 
equal here. This goes for our attitudes and opinions as well.

>
> this does not mean however, that this list 
is a place to express all attitudes and 
opinions., This list is no place for political discussions, plain and simple.

>
> Please keep all discussions of politics and 
political themes off this list.

>
> This list is also no place for deliberately 
inflammatory speech. What this means, is that 
in the case of signatures, if someone has a 
sig that simplly states how they personally 
feel and is not aimed at anyone, then that sig is allowed. This is free speech.

>
> However, if that signature is being used as 
a way to get a public message out without 
actually coming right out and saying that 
message; and using this list as a vehicle to 
do so, then that is absolutely not allowed here.

>
> There is enough going on in the world today 
that people who would like to share their 
political views in discussion or debate should 
have ample forums in which to do so. This list is not one of them.

>
> This list is a technology list so that is 
where our discussions should be focused.

>
> If you feel you need to get a message out or 
feel that you cannot be respectful of others 
and their experiences or cannot at the very 
least, be polite, then this list is not the place for you.

>
> Please consider going somewhere else.
>
> Lastly, if someone offends you, please write 
them off-list. Please, whenever possible, be 
constructive and help de-escalate 
disagreements. We need to foster common ground 
and really help each other move ahead.

>
> We are all users of Apple products here with 
certain needs in our daily usage of these 
products. We share these needs as well as the 
daily victories that these products enable us 
to have. Sometimes we have set-backs as well. We share those too.

>
> We are one community here and even though 
this is just a mailing list in the grand 
scheme of things, we each provide help and 
support to each other here. That is our purpose.

>
> So please keep this in mind when we write to 
each other here. Please bear in mind that we 
are people here; we all have lives and 
stories. We are much more than screen names. 
Please remember this and act to promote dignaty, respect and politeness.

>
> It can really go a long way for all of us.
>
> thank you all so much for reading this. 
Please know that I appreciate you and this 
community that we have all built here.

>
> Let me wish you and yours well.
> Please have a great holiday for those who 
celebrate and a great weekend for everyone!

>
> Cheers!
>
> Cara
>
>
> --
> The following information is important for 
all members of the Mac Visionaries list.

>
> If you have any questions or concerns about 
the running of this list, or if you feel that 
a member's post is inappropriate, please 
contact the owners or moderators directly 
rather than posting on the list itself.

>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark 
Taylor.  You can reach mark 
at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara 
Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are 
subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> To

RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Hi john,

Have you looked at Microsoft edge?

And yes I'm serious, edge is now out for mac OS as well as windows.

Check it out as it's quite a nice browser so far.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of John Panarese
Sent: Friday, 3 July 2020 5:35 AM
To: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

  It’s really nice to read that they have a plan in place and are seeing this 
through. I really wanted an additional web browser beyond Safari that was not 
Google Chrome.



Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:29 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   You bet. There is a lot in the blog, I skimmed it and will read more later.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Freedom of Speech Carries With
> It Implicit Responsibility.
> 
> On 7/2/2020 10:19 AM, John Panarese wrote:
>>   Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.
>> Take Care
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT 
>> PROFESSIONAL and Trainer AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE 
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   Here it is John.
>>> 
>>>  Forwarded Message 
>>> Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>>> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
>>> From: Mike Arrigo 
>>> Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover support 
>>> in Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a great 
>>> start.
>>> https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-comi
>>> ng-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
>>> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
>>> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/097B8C62-2624-4846-A909-381A1C0B4161%40charter.net.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
>>> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
>>> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/868175b1-fc49-ce04-15ce-a60593e298e0%40icloud.com.
>>> 
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach 
> Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from

Re: Moderator Note - Signatures and Politics etc on the List


Is This Mr.Eric i.e., the R  Guy from the MobileApp, Vorail?
Meanin' Back  in May2016 & June2016?
JustWonderin
At 02:11 PM 7/2/2020, you wrote:

Hmmm.
Never caught that thread. Usually, when I see 
politics, I simply delete and move on. Political 
discussions often devolve into meaningless 
arguments, insults, name calling, labeling and 
argumentative fallacies. I get enough of that on 
Facebook, twitter, tick tock, snapchat, what sap, and LinkedIn.


I think the only exception is politics but only 
where apple and itâ€™s products are concerned, 
BUT ONLY THAT. Once it goes OT, then thatâ€™s 
where it needs to end. Mind you, this is just my opinion.


Anyway, donâ€™t drop off the list because of 
politics. Simply delete the thread and move on. 
Believe me, it cuts down on the stress and gives you some control.


Just my 2 cents worth.

-Eric


> On Jul 2, 2020, at 11:05 AM, Cara Quinn  wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Firstly, please let me apologize for the 
delay in writing. My keeping up with each topic 
these days has been in fits and starts.

>
> I want to thank a hand full of kind souls who 
highlighted the recent troubling thread. -And I 
needed to make sure I read through the thread(s) in entirety before I spoke.

>
> Regrettably, we have people who have either 
left this list over the last couple of days or 
those who feel that that might be appropriate.

>
> To address at least some of what has happened 
here, Iâ€™d just like to say first of all, that 
here on this list, everyone is viewed and 
treated equally. Every race, creed and color is 
equal here. This goes for our attitudes and opinions as well.

>
> this does not mean however, that this list is 
a place to express all attitudes and opinions., 
This list is no place for political discussions, plain and simple.

>
> Please keep all discussions of politics and political themes off this list.
>
> This list is also no place for deliberately 
inflammatory speech. What this means, is that 
in the case of signatures, if someone has a sig 
that simplly states how they personally feel 
and is not aimed at anyone, then that sig is allowed. This is free speech.

>
> However, if that signature is being used as a 
way to get a public message out without 
actually coming right out and saying that 
message; and using this list as a vehicle to do 
so, then that is absolutely not allowed here.

>
> There is enough going on in the world today 
that people who would like to share their 
political views in discussion or debate should 
have ample forums in which to do so. This list is not one of them.

>
> This list is a technology list so that is 
where our discussions should be focused.

>
> If you feel you need to get a message out or 
feel that you cannot be respectful of others 
and their experiences or cannot at the very 
least, be polite, then this list is not the place for you.

>
> Please consider going somewhere else.
>
> Lastly, if someone offends you, please write 
them off-list. Please, whenever possible, be 
constructive and help de-escalate 
disagreements. We need to foster common ground 
and really help each other move ahead.

>
> We are all users of Apple products here with 
certain needs in our daily usage of these 
products. We share these needs as well as the 
daily victories that these products enable us 
to have. Sometimes we have set-backs as well. We share those too.

>
> We are one community here and even though 
this is just a mailing list in the grand scheme 
of things, we each provide help and support to 
each other here. That is our purpose.

>
> So please keep this in mind when we write to 
each other here. Please bear in mind that we 
are people here; we all have lives and stories. 
We are much more than screen names. Please 
remember this and act to promote dignaty, respect and politeness.

>
> It can really go a long way for all of us.
>
> thank you all so much for reading this. 
Please know that I appreciate you and this 
community that we have all built here.

>
> Let me wish you and yours well.
> Please have a great holiday for those who 
celebrate and a great weekend for everyone!

>
> Cheers!
>
> Cara
>
>
> --
> The following information is important for 
all members of the Mac Visionaries list.

>
> If you have any questions or concerns about 
the running of this list, or if you feel that a 
member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark 
Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu 
and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are 
subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop 
receiving emails from it, send an email to

Enough is Enough.

Hi Listers,

I'm going to ask this for the list and of the entire list!

As we've not been able to get hold of mark or Cara and we can't say they are 
ignoring this thread as we don't know what their current situation is.

So as adults and in most cases respectfull of eachother,

I'd like to ask that we just 'STOP"  this post.

That way we can get rid of the related signature issue.

To those folks interested in the FireFox on the mac thread,
Can we either start a new thread or change the signature to reflect a new start?

As for the other issue,
Please lets after this leave it alone and with luck it will die a natural death!

Note we have already lost a number of members that we will miss and that were / 
are part of the list family.

Time is to short these days for us to deal with this type of thing and I advise 
people that if you get an email with any type of discriminatory or racist / 
religious signature that you don't agree with,

Hit the delete button on it and don't worry about commenting,
Remember ignorance is bliss and we all have times of blissness.

Thanks and I'm sorry to go on about this, 

But I have enough shit in my own life that I don't need to add this to it also.

Take care and enjoy the world as a whole.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Robin
Sent: Friday, 3 July 2020 5:07 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

MayBe that Person should Create a   NEW Thread, as This1 is Serverely Derailed?
Just Sayin

I  tried  & attempted to get This Thread Back On Track  to No Avail

At 10:00 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
> Ok. To get this back on track, could someone please repost the 
> original article on Firefox. This is of great interest to me. I have 
> been messing with FF on the Mac for a long time and accessibility is 
> finally improving again with VoiceOver. Itâ€™s actually to the point 
> of being quite usable.
>
>
>Take Care
>
>John D. Panarese
>Director
>Mac for the Blind
>Tel, (631) 724-4479
>Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>
>APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>
>AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>
>MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:56 PM, 'E.T.' via
> MacVisionaries  wrote:
> >
> >   Cara Quinn, owner and Mark Taylor. 
> moderator, their contact information is in the footer. And I doubt 
> very much they support hatred.
> >
> > From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> >   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> > Freedom of Speech Carries With
> > It Implicit Responsibility.
> >
> > On 7/2/2020 9:41 AM, Robin wrote:
> >> "Who" are The Moderators of This MailingList?
> >> &
> >> Wonder if "They" support The Views  of
> TheMembers/Subscribers, which would be The Reason, "Why" they are 
> Allowing This Thread to Continue
> >> EvenThough
> >> it's OFF Topic/Subject
> >> I've tried to Steer this Thread Back ON Topic/Subject to No Avail 
> >> At 04:05 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
> >>> No thatÃ¢€™s why IÃ¢€™m sorry Jsorry Julie,
> >>>
> >>> I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
> >>> I believe it is time
> >>>   To block the sender and trash their emails,
> >>>
> >>> Which I hate to say could cause me to miss
> emails of interest from other members.itÃ¢€™s just so interesting to 
> hear how theseese perfect people react, must be difficult living in 
> their close minded worlds.
> >>>
> >>> Simon F
> >>> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>  *On Behalf Of *Julie Rattray
> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
> >>> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >>> *Subject:* Re: Endding the RE: article on
> Firefox accessibility on the mac
> >>>
> >>> It was not you that made people leave it is
> rather the lack of a moderator stopping this I think that is the issue
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty  >>>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them 
> >>> leaving,
> >>>
> >>>That wasnÃ¢€™t my intention to make it happen.
>.
> >>>Regards,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Simon F
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >>>
> >>> >>>> On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
> >>>Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
> >>>To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >>>
> >>>Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on
> >>>the mac
> >>>
> >>>I completely agree.  I canÃ¢€™t believe the modeoderator has been
> >>>silent and allowed this crap to go on.
> >>>Unlike a Groups.io  email list, I am not aware
> >>>of a way to mute a topic.
> >>>It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe
> >>>from the list.
> >>>
> >>>- Brad -
> >>>
> >>>On Jul 2, 2020, at

Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Im still using firefox 47, it disabled extensions etc without warning.  I 
keep it as a back upto chrome, and also to be login work related vs 
personal logins etc

On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 11:32:08 PM UTC-4, Jonathan Cohn wrote:
>
> Hello Kar: 
> Firefox was unusable with any screen reader from when they introduced 
> multi-process mode until Firefox 60. Firefox 60 has a special plugin that 
> recognizes a screen reader is present and disabled a couple of options deep 
> in Firefox settings area. The Current version of Firefox is somewhere 
> around 77. On the otherhand, for the Macintosh Mozilla got Firefox to read 
> focusable items and then did nothing for quite some time.  I believe 
> initially that Mozilla was hoping that Apple would create a iAccessible2 to 
> VoiceOver bridge so that the ScreenReader API could be the same for all 
> platforms. I know I read something like this about 6 years ago, but don’t 
> count my words as Gospel. 
> — Hmm — Just have to add, I am not catholic or even Christian — (This is 
> for Ray ) 
>
>
>
> > On Jun 30, 2020, at 4:35 PM, Karen Lewellen  > wrote: 
> > 
> > granted  I am not overly objective, but issues for jaws seem, at least 
> to me,  more sensible than  with the mac. 
> > Speaking personally, and not fully from first hand experience, 
> Voiceover's built in aspect seems easier to work with than Jaws 
> often-i-hear. flakiness. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, Simon A Fogarty wrote: 
> > 
> >> Firefox was also inaccessible to jaws users for a while as well. 
> >> 
> >> I can only assume that it's accessibility is coming back as well. 
> >> -Original Message- 
> >> From: macvisi...@googlegroups.com  <
> macvisi...@googlegroups.com > On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen 
> >> Sent: Wednesday, 1 July 2020 4:55 AM 
> >> To: macvisi...@googlegroups.com  
> >> Subject: RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac 
> >> 
> >> Actually, given how long Firefox has been around, what was the hold up? 
> >> Did many feel that Safari did a solid enough job that working with 
> Firefox  was not needful.  I am interested, because Firefox started as a 
> Linux tool I believe, and Linux as an offshoot of Unix shares aspects with 
> the mac. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, Robin wrote: 
> >> 
> >>> Just Wonderin: 
> >>> How does The Accessibility  compare to  its PC i.e., Windows 
> >>> CounterPart & I'm Talkin'About  the InternetBrowser, FireFox on The 
> MAC? 
> >>> 
> >>> Let's get This Thread Back-on-Track 
> >>> 
> >>> Blessin'sAgain! 
> >>> At 09:37 AM 6/30/2020, you wrote: 
>  Nonsense like this has no place on this list! Stop it! 
>  
>  -Original Message- 
>  From: macvisi...@googlegroups.com  
>  > On Behalf Of alia 
> robinson 
>  Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 10:06 AM 
>  To: macvisi...@googlegroups.com  
>  Subject: Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac 
>  
>  and things like this is why crap like that signature shouldnâ€™t be 
>  allowed. it brings out the crazy conspiracy theroists. LMAO turn off 
>  alex jones. 
>  
>  On Jun 30, 2020, at 11:02 AM, CHUCK REICHEL 
>  > wrote: 
>  
>  Amen Ray! 
>  
>  The whole thing including the "Communist Chinese Biological weapon 
> attack" 
>  is just the "Deep State attempting another election year scam! 
>  Guys look up   George Soros and how he's  funding antifa & MS 13 to 
>  continually foment the Violence which has nothing to do with Black 
> lives! 
>  May be you guys are not aware  of the fact 90% of the news you're 
>  being fed is controlled by "6 corporations" 
>  Thats called a monopoly! 
>  Just another way to try and overthrow my USA Government. 
>  It aint gonna happen guys! 
>  Just watch! 
>  
>  -- 
>  The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>  Visionaries list. 
>  
>  If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>  or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>  the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
> itself. 
>  
>  Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
> mark at: 
>  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at 
>  cara...@caraquinn.com  
>  
>  The archives for this list can be searched at: 
>  http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>  --- 
>  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>  Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 
>  To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>  send an email to macvisi...@googlegroups.com . 
>  To view this discussion on the web visit 
>  
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/FE376125-C5CC-4115-8A27-41CA13423204%40gmail.com.
>  
>
>  
>  -- 
>  The following information is

Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

agree:

learn unconscious bias, many training programs 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscious_bias_training and culture of care 
https://www.slideshare.net/evgrace82/culture-care-theory


On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 4:51:02 PM UTC-4, Simon A Fogarty wrote:
>
> I don’t think we need this on this list guys!
>
>  
>
> There is enough racial inequality on the planet already and we all know of 
> the situation of things in the USA currently,
>
>  
>
> Rather than signatures such as this we would be better off putting gour 
> feelings in to writing to the powers that be or into the so called peaceful 
> protests.
>
>  
>
> I’m totally against how those aftrican americans have been treated and 
> agree that black lives do matter,
>
> But I believe even more that All Lives Matterr and that is more the point 
> that should be pushed.
>
> *From:* macvisi...@googlegroups.com  <
> macvisi...@googlegroups.com > *On Behalf Of *alia robinson
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 1 July 2020 2:36 AM
> *To:* macvisi...@googlegroups.com 
> *Subject:* Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>
>  
>
> when you are held down by the neck by a racist cop, you can talk until 
> then shut up! there is absolutely no comparison *at* all, and whites have 
> no clue. how absolutely and totally disgusting. white male privelege is 
> real people. you don’t have to stand up for yourself. society does it for 
> you! 
>
>  
>
> Alia
>
>  
>
> On Jun 30, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries <
> macvisi...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>  
>
> Hi,
>
>  
>
> Well, I thought that the quote could be taken a few directions and hoped 
> that it wasn't as inappropriate as it could be.  But, from this response, I 
> agree that it is over the top and out of line.  Very disappointed indeed.
>
>  
>
> Later...
>
>  
>
>
> Tim Kilburn
>
> Jamf Certified Tech
>
> Apple Teacher
>
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>
>  
>
> On Jun 30, 2020, at 04:57, Raymond Foret Jr  > wrote:
>
>  
>
> Just the truth.  I’m sick and tired of people on my side telling us we 
> can’t stand up for it but BLM can stand up for theirs’.  MO MORE!
>
>  
>
>  
>
> I will never apologize for my Whiteness, my Catholicism or my Southernness
>
>  
>
> Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the 
> blind:
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> The constantly barefooted Ray
>
>  
>
> On Jun 29, 2020, at 11:27 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries <
> macvisi...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>  
>
> Raymond,
>   Isn't that quote of yours a bit over the top and offensive?
>
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancien...@icloud.com 
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
>
> On 6/29/2020 8:24 PM, Raymond Foret Jr wrote:
>
> I very much doubt my current Mac will support this so I’ll need to get a 
> new one next year.  Maybe I should wait till I can get a maxed out Mac mini 
> with the new Apple chip set.
> I will never apologize for my Whiteness, my Catholicism or my Southernness
> Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the 
> blind:
> Sincerely,
> The constantly barefooted Ray
>
> On Jun 29, 2020, at 9:29 PM, Mike Arrigo  
> >> wrote:
>
> This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover 
> support in Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a 
> great start.
>
> https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/
>
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> at:  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at cara...@caraquinn.com 
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisi...@googlegroups.com .
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/097B8C62-2624-4846-A909-381A1C0B4161%40charter.net
> .
>
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach 
> Cara at cara...@caraquinn.com 
> The archives for this list can be

Re: Moderator Note - Signatures and Politics etc on the List

I'm not Leavin' this MailingList

At 01:12 PM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
I didn't follow that thread so I'm not leaving. 
I have my opinions like everybody else but there 
are plenty of other places to express those.

> On Jul 2, 2020, at 3:08 PM, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' 
via MacVisionaries  wrote:

>
> I hope everyone isnâ€™t leaving as it would 
be a sad day.  We should be helping each other 
and not fighting.  Thereâ€™s enough sadness in 
the world with the virus and other things happening.

>
> Kawal.
>
>> On 2 Jul 2020, at 20:34, 'E.T.' via 
MacVisionaries  wrote:

>>
>>  Stay put Petrus. Don't let anyone try to run you off.
>>
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Freedom of Speech Carries With
>> It Implicit Responsibility.
>>
>> On 7/2/2020 12:27 PM, Petrus Tuerlings wrote:
>>> Hi Cara,
>>> Thank you for replying. Unfortunately I 
donâ€™t think I can remain on this list.
>>> Iâ€™d like to say thank you to all of those 
people that helped me with my Mac over the last year and a half.

>>> People would be most welcome to keep in touch off list.
>>> petrus.t...@gmail.com 
 On 3/07/2020, at 06:05, Cara Quinn 
mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>> wrote:

 Hi All,

 Firstly, please let me apologize for the 
delay in writing. My keeping up with each topic 
these days has been in fits and starts.

 I want to thank a hand full of kind souls 
who highlighted the recent troubling thread. 
-And I needed to make sure I read through the 
thread(s) in entirety before I spoke.

 Regrettably, we have people who have 
either left this list over the last couple of 
days or those who feel that that might be appropriate.

 To address at least some of what has 
happened here, Iâ€™d just like to say first of 
all, that here on this list, everyone is viewed 
and treated equally. Every race, creed and 
color is equal here. This goes for our attitudes and opinions as well.

 this does not mean however, that this list 
is a place to express all attitudes and 
opinions., This list is no place for political discussions, plain and simple.

 Please keep all discussions of politics 
and political themes off this list.

 This list is also no place for 
deliberately inflammatory speech. What this 
means, is that in the case of signatures, if 
someone has a sig that simplly states how they 
personally feel and is not aimed at anyone, 
then that sig is allowed. This is free speech.

 However, if that signature is being used 
as a way to get a public message out without 
actually coming right out and saying that 
message; and using this list as a vehicle to do 
so, then that is absolutely not allowed here.

 There is enough going on in the world 
today that people who would like to share their 
political views in discussion or debate should 
have ample forums in which to do so. This list is not one of them.

 This list is a technology list so that is 
where our discussions should be focused.

 If you feel you need to get a message out 
or feel that you cannot be respectful of others 
and their experiences or cannot at the very 
least, be polite, then this list is not the place for you.

 Please consider going somewhere else.

 Lastly, if someone offends you, please 
write them off-list. Please, whenever possible, 
be constructive and help de-escalate 
disagreements. We need to foster common ground 
and really help each other move ahead.

 We are all users of Apple products here 
with certain needs in our daily usage of these 
products. We share these needs as well as the 
daily victories that these products enable us 
to have. Sometimes we have set-backs as well. We share those too.

 We are one community here and even though 
this is just a mailing list in the grand scheme 
of things, we each provide help and support to 
each other here. That is our purpose.

 So please keep this in mind when we write 
to each other here. Please bear in mind that we 
are people here; we all have lives and stories. 
We are much more than screen names. Please 
remember this and act to promote dignaty, respect and politeness.

 It can really go a long way for all of us.

 thank you all so much for reading this. 
Please know that I appreciate you and this 
community that we have all built here.

 Let me wish you and yours well.
 Please have a great holiday for those who 
celebrate and a great weekend for everyone!

 Cheers!

 Cara

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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

don't get fooled by trumps outrage of China, it was good enought for 
Kushner to have busniness dealings for 1.2B yeah Billions for 666 5th ave, 
until the feds were investingating because it was deal with Insurance 
company that was owned by chinese gov.. so there is motive  here folks.

if ref to your so called WMD:  For the USA,
China is not responsible for not having USA factories making N95 masks on 
USA lands
China is not responsible that 3M has monopoly on N95
China is not respossible for the lockdown delays
China is not responsible for nursing homes allowing visitors
China is not responsible for having people with symptoms not checked at 
health care facilities
China is not responsible for the hoarding and price gouching of PPE 
equipment
China is not responsible for elimination of the pandemic team
China is not responsible for only labs corporations, like Quest Diag and 
Lab Corp only ones to evaluate tests , thus why are there not STATE and 
COUNTY labs
China is not responsible for not having field hosptials
China is not responsible for not responsible for no antibodies testing at 
ALL states and ALL hosptials for ALL citizens

finally Trumps resume:
BY"Michael Sweenie-Lane TRUMP COVID-19 TIME±LINE
For the record:
Dec 18th - House Impeaches Trump
Jan 8th - First CDC warning
Jan 9th - Trump campaign rally
Jan 14th - Trump campaign rally
Jan 16h - House sends impeachment articles to Senate
Jan 18th - Trump golfs
Jan 19th - Trump golfs
Jan 20th - first case of corona virus in the US, Washington State.
Jan 22nd - “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in 
from China. It’s going to be just fine.”
Jan- 23rd- Trump received CV19 briefing. He was informed it would spread 
globally.
Jan-28th- Trump Received another CV19 and again was informed it was indeed 
spreading globally.
Jan 28th - Trump goes to campaign rally
Jan 30th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 1st - Trump golfs
Feb 2nd - “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China."
Feb 5th - Senate votes to acquit. Then takes a five-day weekend.
Feb 10th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 12th - Dow Jones closes at an all time high of 29,551.42
Feb 15h - Trump golfs
Feb 19th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 20th - Trump campaign rally
Feb 21st - Trump campaign rally
Feb 24th - “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock 
Market starting to look very good to me!”
Feb 25h - “CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling 
Coronavirus.”
Feb 25h - “I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have 
studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”
Feb 26th - “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be 
down to close to zero.”
Feb 26th - “We're going very substantially down, not up.” Also "This is a 
flu. This is like a flu"; "Now, you treat this like a flu"; "It's a little 
like the regular flu that we have flu shots for. And we'll essentially have 
a flu shot for this in a fairly quick manner."
February 27: “One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”
Feb 28th - “We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, 
elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like 
this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”
Feb 28th - Trump campaign rally
March 2nd - “You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have 
an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”
March 2nd - “A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things 
are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”
March 4: “If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get 
better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of 
them go to work, but they get better.”
March 5th - “I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”
March 5th - “The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 
deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”
March 6th - “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at 
keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”
March 6th - “Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test 
gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all 
perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? 
This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”
March 6th - “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that 
I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much 
about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that 
instead of running for president.”
March 6th - “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship 
that wasn't our fault.”
March 7th - Trump golfs
March 8th - Trump golfs
March 8th - “We have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the 
White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.”
March 9th - “This blindsided the world.”
March 13th - [Declared state of emergency]
March 17th - “This is a

RE: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

That's my concern is if I delete / block the thread I'll miss good information 
but will still get rid of the crap.



-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Friday, 3 July 2020 2:23 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Blocking addresses is one way but does not solve it completely. 
Perhaps deleting a thread without reading it.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/1/2020 11:08 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
> I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been silent and 
> allowed this crap to go on.
> Unlike a Groups.io  email list, I am not aware of a 
> way to mute a topic.
> It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from 
> the list.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson  > wrote:
> 
> and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as 
> opposed to this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. 
> I too am gone. I can get mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what 
> I’ve seen here, and to those who were supportive you rock. to people 
> like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful of a future world where 
> these attitudes and the people spouting them are gone.
> 
> 
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  > wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive 
> bigotry.  I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would 
> prefer to surround myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I 
> am unsubscribing from this list.
> 
> Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.
> 
> Later…
> 
> 
> 
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To

Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

I will stick up for injustice. remember native americans were the first 
here everyone else is a product of immigration.   Right matters, justice 
matters.
as for BLM: Then clean up your precinct, kick out the bad apples, if you 
dont then youre enablers and just as bad, silence is agreement , make the 
changes then. Shape up or Ship out, cops are not judge and jury


On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 6:57:43 AM UTC-4, Ray Foret jr wrote:
>
> Just the truth.  I’m sick and tired of people on my side telling us we 
> can’t stand up for it but BLM can stand up for theirs’.  MO MORE!
>
>
> I will never apologize for my Whiteness, my Catholicism or my Southernness
>
> Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the 
> blind:
>
> Sincerely,
>
> The constantly barefooted Ray
>
> On Jun 29, 2020, at 11:27 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries <
> macvisi...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
> Raymond,
>   Isn't that quote of yours a bit over the top and offensive?
>
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancien...@icloud.com 
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
>
> On 6/29/2020 8:24 PM, Raymond Foret Jr wrote:
>
> I very much doubt my current Mac will support this so I’ll need to get a 
> new one next year.  Maybe I should wait till I can get a maxed out Mac mini 
> with the new Apple chip set.
> I will never apologize for my Whiteness, my Catholicism or my Southernness
> Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the 
> blind:
> Sincerely,
> The constantly barefooted Ray
>
> On Jun 29, 2020, at 9:29 PM, Mike Arrigo  
> >> wrote:
>
> This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover 
> support in Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a 
> great start.
>
> https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/
>
> -- 
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> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/2758433B-B37A-44B5-BD8A-4C14750D3337%40comcast.net?utm_medium=email_source=footer
> >.
>
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Re: Frustrated with captcha.

once  i updated my firefox it worked better, also turn off any extentsion 
of css/user style sheets that may interfere

On Wednesday, July 1, 2020 at 4:37:55 PM UTC-4, anders wrote:
>
> Hi! 
> Trying to register to GitHub. 
> But there’s a verification by captcha there. 
> THe first one has an audio option but the next one is a puzzle. 
> Is anyone here registered at github and may be able to give me some help. 
> /A

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RE: Outlook for Mac Exhange Server Archives

Hi mark,

I'm sitting here at my windows machine currently but from memory in outlook for 
mac there is not an option to bulk download your attachments 
I thought / think there is an option to do this in mac mail which should also 
work fine now with exchange if you are running an up to date mac os and mac 
mail with it.

Exchange interaction with mac mail is dam good now

Otherwise I'm not sure I understand what it is you're trying to do.

Is it that you wish to move all your attachments in to a cloud storage 
environment off your machines storage or that you want to get all your 
attachments out of your exchange mail box and in to a cloud storage area that 
wont effect your exchange mail boxes quota 



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Marc Liles
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 9:14 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Outlook for Mac Exhange Server Archives

Hello All.

I am moving from an exchange Server access through Outlook for Mac.  How can I 
achieve emails , contacts, etc to my local or cloud drives?  Also is there a 
way to download (Batch download) files attached to the emails?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

Marc
go4itda...@gmail.com

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RE: 2020 Macbook Pro 13"

Greg,
I'm jellous,

And I don't like the touch bar, but I'm still jellous.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Greg Wocher
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 7:47 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: 2020 Macbook Pro 13"

Hello,
I just got mine not to long ago. I have the tenth gen I5 with 16 gigs of ram 
and a 1 tb hard rive. So far it is working well. The Touch Bar is not hard to 
use. I have not found much use for it though. Most of what I used function keys 
for I can do with key commands. For example using VO plus the plus or minus 
keys to raise and lower volume. Also if you use VO plus function plus one of 
the number row keys you can activate most VO functions. For example VO plus 
function plus the number row one brings up the application chooser. 

Greg Wocher

> On Jul 1, 2020, at 1:15 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   This is on my wish list but it will be a while. Meantime thise who got one, 
> what are your impressions so far? If you didn't have the Touch Bar before, 
> was it easy or difficult to get used to?
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were 
> true?
> 
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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Phil Halton

Dear Petrus, I didn’t chase anybody off the list or make them change their 
signature. I simply said that it was driving me crazy that I was hearing his 
name repeated twice and I couldn’t figure out how to make it stop. It was 
nothing racist about it. it had nothing to do with Remi’s ethnicity. That is in 
your mind, not in mine. if you’re looking for a racist to hate then you’re 
going to have to look elsewhere because it ain’t me. maybe I am a hypocrite. 
that wouldn’t exactly be a rare sight in this world now would it. I think we 
should do what  The moderatorsuggested and just drop it. if you are willing 
then so am I.

Sent from my IPhone


> On Jul 2, 2020, at 2:49 PM, Petrus Tuerlings  wrote:
> 
> I’m sorry Phill,
> But your Argument would hold more value if you weren’t guilty of the same 
> thing. You have the nerve to talk about freedom of speech and the right to 
> have what ever signature you want. But you were quite happy to make a 
> perfectly decent gentlemen delete his actual name that was spelt out in the  
> arabic alphabet and it offended your sensitive little ears. I know you 
> blocked him but you still had to speak your disapproval of someone using 
> their own name publicly. And it is his identity  and I know whoo I’d rather 
> be friends with if I ever got to meet any one of you. . 
> 
>> On 2/07/2020, at 13:01, Phil Halton  wrote:
>> 
>> I don’t see how there’s anything bigoted, racist, disrespectful, or 
>> insensitive about Ray’s signature. The man is white he’s a Christian and 
>> he’s from the south, and he’s tired of being told That all those three 
>> things are terrible. And simon, why should ray have to remove his signature 
>> when we are exposed to the crap about ancient aliens every day. Frankly I 
>> don’t like hearing about aliens as our progenitors, or whatever the hell he 
>> believes, but I don’t get my nose all out of joint about it. Nobody has to 
>> shut up or wipe their signatures. That’s called free-speech, and that’s One 
>> of the main reasons  why we threw the British crown out of the colonies, so 
>> we could speak our damn minds. apparently  You all hate free-speech and you 
>> love conformity and that’s really too damn bad.
>> 
>> Sent from my IPhone
>> 
>> 
 On Jul 1, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Robin  wrote:
 
 What  I  Meant was: Mr.BarefootRay's Signature Represents "Him"
 &
 I  Rather Know Where "He" Stands
 
 All that  You Said about Mr.BarefootRay, I  AgreeWith
 
 MyApologies if There was a  MisUnderStanding with MyOPreviousPosting to 
 ThisThread
 
 
 At 02:29 PM 7/1/2020, you wrote:
 other than itâ€™s bigoted and racist, and disrespectful and insensitive, 
 no thereâ€™s not a *thing* wrong with that! *rolling eyes*
 
 On Jul 1, 2020, at 5:27 PM, Robin  wrote:
 
 Don'tThink:
 There's AnyThing Wrong with Mr.BarefootRay's Signature, so He shouldn't Be 
 Forced to Change or Alter HisSignature.
 
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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

   I did install it yesterday but haven't gotten into it much except to 
verify it is operational.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:53 AM, John Panarese wrote:

They had started to work on it a few years back and were making a lot of 
progress. All of a sudden, it stopped and I could never find an explanation. 
Firefox would work to a certain extent, but it’s much better now. I’d really 
suggest trying it out.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT





On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:51 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   We can dream big and support the effort. I was actually surprised to learn 
that Firefox was getting VO support.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:44 AM, John Panarese wrote:

That would be nice. I’m hoping that a lot of developers will get on the 
VoiceOver train now with the increase in popularity of the Mac among the blind.
Take Care
John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT

On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:41 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   I hear you there. I wonde if Thunderbird will follow suit

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:34 AM, John Panarese wrote:

   It’s really nice to read that they have a plan in place and are seeing this 
through. I really wanted an additional web browser beyond Safari that was not 
Google Chrome.
Take Care
John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT

On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:29 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   You bet. There is a lot in the blog, I skimmed it and will read more later.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:19 AM, John Panarese wrote:

   Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.
Take Care
John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT

On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   Here it is John.

 Forwarded Message 
Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
From: Mike Arrigo 
Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover support in 
Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a great start.
https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/

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Re: Moderator Note - Signatures and Politics etc on the List

2020-07-02 Thread Eric Oyen

Hmmm.
Never caught that thread. Usually, when I see politics, I simply delete and 
move on. Political discussions often devolve into meaningless arguments, 
insults, name calling, labeling and argumentative fallacies. I get enough of 
that on Facebook, twitter, tick tock, snapchat, what sap, and LinkedIn.

I think the only exception is politics but only where apple and it’s products 
are concerned, BUT ONLY THAT. Once it goes OT, then that’s where it needs to 
end. Mind you, this is just my opinion.

Anyway, don’t drop off the list because of politics. Simply delete the thread 
and move on. Believe me, it cuts down on the stress and gives you some control.

Just my 2 cents worth.

-Eric


> On Jul 2, 2020, at 11:05 AM, Cara Quinn  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Firstly, please let me apologize for the delay in writing. My keeping up with 
> each topic these days has been in fits and starts.
> 
> I want to thank a hand full of kind souls who highlighted the recent 
> troubling thread. -And I needed to make sure I read through the thread(s) in 
> entirety before I spoke.
> 
> Regrettably, we have people who have either left this list over the last 
> couple of days or those who feel that that might be appropriate.
> 
> To address at least some of what has happened here, I’d just like to say 
> first of all, that here on this list, everyone is viewed and treated equally. 
> Every race, creed and color is equal here. This goes for our attitudes and 
> opinions as well.
> 
> this does not mean however, that this list is a place to express all 
> attitudes and opinions., This list is no place for political discussions, 
> plain and simple.
> 
> Please keep all discussions of politics and political themes off this list.
> 
> This list is also no place for deliberately inflammatory speech. What this 
> means, is that in the case of signatures, if someone has a sig that simplly 
> states how they personally feel and is not aimed at anyone, then that sig is 
> allowed. This is free speech.
> 
> However, if that signature is being used as a way to get a public message out 
> without actually coming right out and saying that message; and using this 
> list as a vehicle to do so, then that is absolutely not allowed here.
> 
> There is enough going on in the world today that people who would like to 
> share their political views in discussion or debate should have ample forums 
> in which to do so. This list is not one of them.
> 
> This list is a technology list so that is where our discussions should be 
> focused.
> 
> If you feel you need to get a message out or feel that you cannot be 
> respectful of others and their experiences or cannot at the very least, be 
> polite, then this list is not the place for you.
> 
> Please consider going somewhere else.
> 
> Lastly, if someone offends you, please write them off-list. Please, whenever 
> possible, be constructive and help de-escalate disagreements. We need to 
> foster common ground and really help each other move ahead.
> 
> We are all users of Apple products here with certain needs in our daily usage 
> of these products. We share these needs as well as the daily victories that 
> these products enable us to have. Sometimes we have set-backs as well. We 
> share those too.
> 
> We are one community here and even though this is just a mailing list in the 
> grand scheme of things, we each provide help and support to each other here. 
> That is our purpose.
> 
> So please keep this in mind when we write to each other here. Please bear in 
> mind that we are people here; we all have lives and stories. We are much more 
> than screen names. Please remember this and act to promote dignaty, respect 
> and politeness.
> 
> It can really go a long way for all of us.
> 
> thank you all so much for reading this. Please know that I appreciate you and 
> this community that we have all built here.
> 
> Let me wish you and yours well.
> Please have a great holiday for those who celebrate and a great weekend for 
> everyone!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Cara
> 
> 
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Re: Frustrated with captcha.

Hi!
Or perhaps safari cluttered things up.
Will try on another browser lately this weekend.
/A

> 2 juli 2020 kl. 15:37 skrev 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> I have two github identities and don't recall any problems signing up.
> That probably means I found the audio captcha workable.
> 
> But, I also don't recall that you need to solve two of them. Are you
> sure there are actually two? Perhaps they've written the screen prompts
> in a confusing way?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> Anders Holmberg writes:
>> Hi!
>> Trying to register to GitHub.
>> But there’s a verification by captcha there.
>> THe first one has an audio option but the next one is a puzzle.
>> Is anyone here registered at github and may be able to give me some help.
>> /A
>> 
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> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka
> https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka
> 
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
> 
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures   http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> 
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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Hi!
There are times where braille does not display what the speech tells you.
THe braille display is blank.
But that is a problem in a lot of apps and hasn’t been fixed yet.
/A

> 2 juli 2020 kl. 04:31 skrev Jonathan Cohn :
> 
> Interesting I find that Braille support in Firefox with web pages to not be 
> as useful as JAWS. I don't have a lot of issues with Braille and Safari, 
> though I don't use Safari for testing systems at work, and I don't use 
> Braille for pleasure, so I don't use Safari with Braille very often.
> 
>   Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 10:48 AM, Anders Holmberg > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> VoiceOver is quite intuitive when you get used to it.
>> The only good about jaws is the braille support.
>> Here VoiceOver still has a lot to come up with.
>> The best screenReader for firefox though is on windows NVDA and on Linux i 
>> guess there’s only ORCA.
>> I don’t know if the project Clifox exist anymore.
>> Where someone wanted to put together a console based version of ff.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 30 juni 2020 kl. 22:35 skrev Karen Lewellen >> >:
>>> 
>>> granted  I am not overly objective, but issues for jaws seem, at least to 
>>> me,  more sensible than  with the mac.
>>> Speaking personally, and not fully from first hand experience, Voiceover's 
>>> built in aspect seems easier to work with than Jaws often-i-hear. flakiness.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, Simon A Fogarty wrote:
>>> 
 Firefox was also inaccessible to jaws users for a while as well.
 
 I can only assume that it's accessibility is coming back as well.
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  >>> > On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
 Sent: Wednesday, 1 July 2020 4:55 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Subject: RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
 
 Actually, given how long Firefox has been around, what was the hold up?
 Did many feel that Safari did a solid enough job that working with Firefox 
  was not needful.  I am interested, because Firefox started as a Linux 
 tool I believe, and Linux as an offshoot of Unix shares aspects with the 
 mac.
 
 
 
 On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, Robin wrote:
 
> Just Wonderin:
> How does The Accessibility  compare to  its PC i.e., Windows
> CounterPart & I'm Talkin'About  the InternetBrowser, FireFox on The MAC?
> 
> Let's get This Thread Back-on-Track
> 
> Blessin'sAgain!
> At 09:37 AM 6/30/2020, you wrote:
>> Nonsense like this has no place on this list! Stop it!
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> 
>> > > On Behalf Of alia robinson
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 10:06 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> 
>> Subject: Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>> 
>> and things like this is why crap like that signature shouldnâ€™t be
>> allowed. it brings out the crazy conspiracy theroists. LMAO turn off
>> alex jones.
>> 
>> On Jun 30, 2020, at 11:02 AM, CHUCK REICHEL
>> > > wrote:
>> 
>> Amen Ray!
>> 
>> The whole thing including the "Communist Chinese Biological weapon 
>> attack"
>> is just the "Deep State attempting another election year scam!
>> Guys look up   George Soros and how he's  funding antifa & MS 13 to
>> continually foment the Violence which has nothing to do with Black lives!
>> May be you guys are not aware  of the fact 90% of the news you're
>> being fed is controlled by "6 corporations"
>> Thats called a monopoly!
>> Just another way to try and overthrow my USA Government.
>> It aint gonna happen guys!
>> Just watch!
>> 
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Re: Frustrated with captcha.

Hi!
Yes it worked but when i have done that i get another captcha wich is some sort 
of puzzle with no audio challenge.
THe complete or create account button is grayed out.
I will try it with chrome to see if that would work a bit better than safari.
/A

> 2 juli 2020 kl. 00:09 skrev Tim M :
> 
> I did the audio and found it actually useable for once.
>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 4:37 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Trying to register to GitHub.
>> But there’s a verification by captcha there.
>> THe first one has an audio option but the next one is a puzzle.
>> Is anyone here registered at github and may be able to give me some help.
>> /A
>> 
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caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Hi!
THe only thing i dislike about chrome is that it very often makes Vo announce 
it has new windows.
/A

> 1 juli 2020 kl. 23:51 skrev Michael Marshall :
> 
> hey,
> Still using Safari, it's not so bad that you can’t use it but i just feel 
> that in some situations, it can be outstripped by Google Chrome.
> Even many websites seem to take a big dislike to Safari for some reason.
> 
>> On 2 Jul 2020, at 5:54 am, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
>> 
>> Now that is interesting.
>> may i ask what you are using on your mac instead?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, 2 Jul 2020, Michael Marshall wrote:
>> 
>>> Hey, must disagree on Safari.
>>> In my personal experience, I think Safari Accessibility has actually 
>>> dropped significantly in recent operating systems.
>>> It will be interesting to see what it is like in the upcoming system.
>>> 
 On 2 Jul 2020, at 12:43 am, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
 
 Hi!
 Well, safari has always been very good imho.
 However i have since i was both a windows aand a Linux user used firefox a 
 lot and have loved its interface.
 /A
 
> 30 juni 2020 kl. 18:55 skrev Karen Lewellen :
> 
> Actually, given how long Firefox has been around, what was the hold up?
> Did many feel that Safari did a solid enough job that working with 
> Firefox  was not needful.  I am interested, because Firefox started as a 
> Linux tool I believe, and Linux as an offshoot of Unix shares aspects 
> with the mac.
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, Robin wrote:
> 
>> Just Wonderin:
>> How does The Accessibility  compare to  its PC i.e., Windows CounterPart 
>> & I'm Talkin'About  the InternetBrowser, FireFox on The MAC?
>> 
>> Let's get This Thread Back-on-Track
>> 
>> Blessin'sAgain!
>> At 09:37 AM 6/30/2020, you wrote:
>>> Nonsense like this has no place on this list! Stop it!
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  
>>> On Behalf Of alia robinson
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 10:06 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>>> and things like this is why crap like that signature shouldnâ€™t be 
>>> allowed. it brings out the crazy conspiracy theroists. LMAO turn off 
>>> alex jones.
>>> On Jun 30, 2020, at 11:02 AM, CHUCK REICHEL 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Amen Ray!
>>> The whole thing including the "Communist Chinese Biological weapon 
>>> attack" is just the "Deep State attempting another election year scam!
>>> Guys look up   George Soros and how he's  funding antifa & MS 13 to 
>>> continually foment the Violence which has nothing to do with Black 
>>> lives!
>>> May be you guys are not aware  of the fact 90% of the news you're being 
>>> fed is controlled by "6 corporations"
>>> Thats called a monopoly!
>>> Just another way to try and overthrow my USA Government.
>>> It aint gonna happen guys!
>>> Just watch!
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>> itself.
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>> at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/FE376125-C5CC-4115-8A27-41CA13423204%40gmail.com.
>>> --
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>>> Visionaries list.
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>> itself.
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>> at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop

Re: Moderator Note - Signatures and Politics etc on the List

2020-07-02 Thread Karen Lewellen

And the individual's signature?
Has something been said to them privately?

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries wrote:

I hope everyone isn’t leaving as it would be a sad day. We should be helping
each other and not fighting. There’s enough sadness in the world with the
virus and other things happening.

Kawal.

On 2 Jul 2020, at 20:34, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries
wrote:

Stay put Petrus. Don't let anyone try to run you off.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 12:27 PM, Petrus Tuerlings wrote:

Hi Cara,
Thank you for replying. Unfortunately I don’t think I can remain on this list.
I’d like to say thank you to all of those people that helped me with my Mac
over the last year and a half.
People would be most welcome to keep in touch off list.
petrus.t...@gmail.com

On 3/07/2020, at 06:05, Cara Quinn mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>> wrote:

Hi All,

Firstly, please let me apologize for the delay in writing. My keeping up with
each topic these days has been in fits and starts.

I want to thank a hand full of kind souls who highlighted the recent troubling
thread. -And I needed to make sure I read through the thread(s) in entirety
before I spoke.

Regrettably, we have people who have either left this list over the last couple
of days or those who feel that that might be appropriate.

To address at least some of what has happened here, I’d just like to say first
of all, that here on this list, everyone is viewed and treated equally. Every
race, creed and color is equal here. This goes for our attitudes and opinions
as well.

this does not mean however, that this list is a place to express all attitudes
and opinions., This list is no place for political discussions, plain and
simple.

Please keep all discussions of politics and political themes off this list.

This list is also no place for deliberately inflammatory speech. What this
means, is that in the case of signatures, if someone has a sig that simplly
states how they personally feel and is not aimed at anyone, then that sig is
allowed. This is free speech.

However, if that signature is being used as a way to get a public message out
without actually coming right out and saying that message; and using this list
as a vehicle to do so, then that is absolutely not allowed here.

There is enough going on in the world today that people who would like to share
their political views in discussion or debate should have ample forums in which
to do so. This list is not one of them.

This list is a technology list so that is where our discussions should be
focused.

If you feel you need to get a message out or feel that you cannot be respectful
of others and their experiences or cannot at the very least, be polite, then
this list is not the place for you.

Please consider going somewhere else.

Lastly, if someone offends you, please write them off-list. Please, whenever
possible, be constructive and help de-escalate disagreements. We need to foster
common ground and really help each other move ahead.

We are all users of Apple products here with certain needs in our daily usage
of these products. We share these needs as well as the daily victories that
these products enable us to have. Sometimes we have set-backs as well. We share
those too.

We are one community here and even though this is just a mailing list in the
grand scheme of things, we each provide help and support to each other here.
That is our purpose.

So please keep this in mind when we write to each other here. Please bear in
mind that we are people here; we all have lives and stories. We are much more
than screen names. Please remember this and act to promote dignaty, respect and
politeness.

It can really go a long way for all of us.

thank you all so much for reading this. Please know that I appreciate you and
this community that we have all built here.

Let me wish you and yours well.
Please have a great holiday for those who celebrate and a great weekend for
everyone!

Cheers!

Cara

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: mk...@ucla.edu
and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

Re: Moderator Note - Signatures and Politics etc on the List

2020-07-02 Thread Lorie McCloud

I didn't follow that thread so I'm not leaving. I have my opinions like 
everybody else but there are plenty of other places to express those.

> On Jul 2, 2020, at 3:08 PM, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I hope everyone isn’t leaving as it would be a sad day.  We should be helping 
> each other and not fighting.  There’s enough sadness in the world with the 
> virus and other things happening.  
> 
> Kawal.
> 
>> On 2 Jul 2020, at 20:34, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  Stay put Petrus. Don't let anyone try to run you off.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Freedom of Speech Carries With
>> It Implicit Responsibility.
>> 
>> On 7/2/2020 12:27 PM, Petrus Tuerlings wrote:
>>> Hi Cara,
>>> Thank you for replying. Unfortunately I don’t think I can remain on this 
>>> list.
>>> I’d like to say thank you to all of those people that helped me with my Mac 
>>> over the last year and a half.
>>> People would be most welcome to keep in touch off list.
>>> petrus.t...@gmail.com 
 On 3/07/2020, at 06:05, Cara Quinn >>> > wrote:

 Hi All,

 Firstly, please let me apologize for the delay in writing. My keeping up 
 with each topic these days has been in fits and starts.

 I want to thank a hand full of kind souls who highlighted the recent 
 troubling thread. -And I needed to make sure I read through the thread(s) 
 in entirety before I spoke.

 Regrettably, we have people who have either left this list over the last 
 couple of days or those who feel that that might be appropriate.

 To address at least some of what has happened here, I’d just like to say 
 first of all, that here on this list, everyone is viewed and treated 
 equally. Every race, creed and color is equal here. This goes for our 
 attitudes and opinions as well.

 this does not mean however, that this list is a place to express all 
 attitudes and opinions., This list is no place for political discussions, 
 plain and simple.

 Please keep all discussions of politics and political themes off this list.

 This list is also no place for deliberately inflammatory speech. What this 
 means, is that in the case of signatures, if someone has a sig that 
 simplly states how they personally feel and is not aimed at anyone, then 
 that sig is allowed. This is free speech.

 However, if that signature is being used as a way to get a public message 
 out without actually coming right out and saying that message; and using 
 this list as a vehicle to do so, then that is absolutely not allowed here.

 There is enough going on in the world today that people who would like to 
 share their political views in discussion or debate should have ample 
 forums in which to do so. This list is not one of them.

 This list is a technology list so that is where our discussions should be 
 focused.

 If you feel you need to get a message out or feel that you cannot be 
 respectful of others and their experiences or cannot at the very least, be 
 polite, then this list is not the place for you.

 Please consider going somewhere else.

 Lastly, if someone offends you, please write them off-list. Please, 
 whenever possible, be constructive and help de-escalate disagreements. We 
 need to foster common ground and really help each other move ahead.

 We are all users of Apple products here with certain needs in our daily 
 usage of these products. We share these needs as well as the daily 
 victories that these products enable us to have. Sometimes we have 
 set-backs as well. We share those too.

 We are one community here and even though this is just a mailing list in 
 the grand scheme of things, we each provide help and support to each other 
 here. That is our purpose.

 So please keep this in mind when we write to each other here. Please bear 
 in mind that we are people here; we all have lives and stories. We are 
 much more than screen names. Please remember this and act to promote 
 dignaty, respect and politeness.

 It can really go a long way for all of us.

 thank you all so much for reading this. Please know that I appreciate you 
 and this community that we have all built here.

 Let me wish you and yours well.
 Please have a great holiday for those who celebrate and a great weekend 
 for everyone!

 Cheers!

 Cara

 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.

 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators

Re: Moderator Note - Signatures and Politics etc on the List

2020-07-02 Thread 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries

I hope everyone isn’t leaving as it would be a sad day.  We should be helping 
each other and not fighting.  There’s enough sadness in the world with the 
virus and other things happening.  

Kawal.

> On 2 Jul 2020, at 20:34, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Stay put Petrus. Don't let anyone try to run you off.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Freedom of Speech Carries With
> It Implicit Responsibility.
> 
> On 7/2/2020 12:27 PM, Petrus Tuerlings wrote:
>> Hi Cara,
>> Thank you for replying. Unfortunately I don’t think I can remain on this 
>> list.
>> I’d like to say thank you to all of those people that helped me with my Mac 
>> over the last year and a half.
>> People would be most welcome to keep in touch off list.
>> petrus.t...@gmail.com 
>>> On 3/07/2020, at 06:05, Cara Quinn >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>> 
>>> Firstly, please let me apologize for the delay in writing. My keeping up 
>>> with each topic these days has been in fits and starts.
>>> 
>>> I want to thank a hand full of kind souls who highlighted the recent 
>>> troubling thread. -And I needed to make sure I read through the thread(s) 
>>> in entirety before I spoke.
>>> 
>>> Regrettably, we have people who have either left this list over the last 
>>> couple of days or those who feel that that might be appropriate.
>>> 
>>> To address at least some of what has happened here, I’d just like to say 
>>> first of all, that here on this list, everyone is viewed and treated 
>>> equally. Every race, creed and color is equal here. This goes for our 
>>> attitudes and opinions as well.
>>> 
>>> this does not mean however, that this list is a place to express all 
>>> attitudes and opinions., This list is no place for political discussions, 
>>> plain and simple.
>>> 
>>> Please keep all discussions of politics and political themes off this list.
>>> 
>>> This list is also no place for deliberately inflammatory speech. What this 
>>> means, is that in the case of signatures, if someone has a sig that simplly 
>>> states how they personally feel and is not aimed at anyone, then that sig 
>>> is allowed. This is free speech.
>>> 
>>> However, if that signature is being used as a way to get a public message 
>>> out without actually coming right out and saying that message; and using 
>>> this list as a vehicle to do so, then that is absolutely not allowed here.
>>> 
>>> There is enough going on in the world today that people who would like to 
>>> share their political views in discussion or debate should have ample 
>>> forums in which to do so. This list is not one of them.
>>> 
>>> This list is a technology list so that is where our discussions should be 
>>> focused.
>>> 
>>> If you feel you need to get a message out or feel that you cannot be 
>>> respectful of others and their experiences or cannot at the very least, be 
>>> polite, then this list is not the place for you.
>>> 
>>> Please consider going somewhere else.
>>> 
>>> Lastly, if someone offends you, please write them off-list. Please, 
>>> whenever possible, be constructive and help de-escalate disagreements. We 
>>> need to foster common ground and really help each other move ahead.
>>> 
>>> We are all users of Apple products here with certain needs in our daily 
>>> usage of these products. We share these needs as well as the daily 
>>> victories that these products enable us to have. Sometimes we have 
>>> set-backs as well. We share those too.
>>> 
>>> We are one community here and even though this is just a mailing list in 
>>> the grand scheme of things, we each provide help and support to each other 
>>> here. That is our purpose.
>>> 
>>> So please keep this in mind when we write to each other here. Please bear 
>>> in mind that we are people here; we all have lives and stories. We are much 
>>> more than screen names. Please remember this and act to promote dignaty, 
>>> respect and politeness.
>>> 
>>> It can really go a long way for all of us.
>>> 
>>> thank you all so much for reading this. Please know that I appreciate you 
>>> and this community that we have all built here.
>>> 
>>> Let me wish you and yours well.
>>> Please have a great holiday for those who celebrate and a great weekend for 
>>> everyone!
>>> 
>>> Cheers!
>>> 
>>> Cara
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched

Re: Moderator Note - Signatures and Politics etc on the List

2020-07-02 Thread 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries

Stay put Petrus. Don't let anyone try to run you off.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 12:27 PM, Petrus Tuerlings wrote:

Hi Cara,
Thank you for replying. Unfortunately I don’t think I can remain on this
list.
I’d like to say thank you to all of those people that helped me with my
Mac over the last year and a half.

People would be most welcome to keep in touch off list.
petrus.t...@gmail.com

On 3/07/2020, at 06:05, Cara Quinn > wrote:

Hi All,

Firstly, please let me apologize for the delay in writing. My keeping
up with each topic these days has been in fits and starts.

I want to thank a hand full of kind souls who highlighted the recent
troubling thread. -And I needed to make sure I read through the
thread(s) in entirety before I spoke.

Regrettably, we have people who have either left this list over the
last couple of days or those who feel that that might be appropriate.

To address at least some of what has happened here, I’d just like to
say first of all, that here on this list, everyone is viewed and
treated equally. Every race, creed and color is equal here. This goes
for our attitudes and opinions as well.

this does not mean however, that this list is a place to express all
attitudes and opinions., This list is no place for political
discussions, plain and simple.

Please keep all discussions of politics and political themes off this
list.

This list is also no place for deliberately inflammatory speech. What
this means, is that in the case of signatures, if someone has a sig
that simplly states how they personally feel and is not aimed at
anyone, then that sig is allowed. This is free speech.

However, if that signature is being used as a way to get a public
message out without actually coming right out and saying that message;
and using this list as a vehicle to do so, then that is absolutely not
allowed here.

There is enough going on in the world today that people who would like
to share their political views in discussion or debate should have
ample forums in which to do so. This list is not one of them.

This list is a technology list so that is where our discussions should
be focused.

If you feel you need to get a message out or feel that you cannot be
respectful of others and their experiences or cannot at the very
least, be polite, then this list is not the place for you.

Please consider going somewhere else.

Lastly, if someone offends you, please write them off-list. Please,
whenever possible, be constructive and help de-escalate disagreements.
We need to foster common ground and really help each other move ahead.

We are all users of Apple products here with certain needs in our
daily usage of these products. We share these needs as well as the
daily victories that these products enable us to have. Sometimes we
have set-backs as well. We share those too.

We are one community here and even though this is just a mailing list
in the grand scheme of things, we each provide help and support to
each other here. That is our purpose.

So please keep this in mind when we write to each other here. Please
bear in mind that we are people here; we all have lives and stories.
We are much more than screen names. Please remember this and act to
promote dignaty, respect and politeness.

It can really go a long way for all of us.

thank you all so much for reading this. Please know that I appreciate
you and this community that we have all built here.

Let me wish you and yours well.
Please have a great holiday for those who celebrate and a great
weekend for everyone!

Cheers!

Cara

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach
mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara
Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/793F23C2-8386-4256-894E-2D4589621769%40caraquinn.com.

Sent from Petrus' MacBook

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
if you

Re: Moderator Note - Signatures and Politics etc on the List

2020-07-02 Thread Petrus Tuerlings

Hi Cara,
Thank you for replying. Unfortunately I don’t think I can remain on this list. 
I’d like to say thank you to all of those people that helped me with my Mac 
over the last year and a half.  
People would be most welcome to keep in touch off list.
petrus.t...@gmail.com 


> On 3/07/2020, at 06:05, Cara Quinn  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Firstly, please let me apologize for the delay in writing. My keeping up with 
> each topic these days has been in fits and starts.
> 
> I want to thank a hand full of kind souls who highlighted the recent 
> troubling thread. -And I needed to make sure I read through the thread(s) in 
> entirety before I spoke.
> 
> Regrettably, we have people who have either left this list over the last 
> couple of days or those who feel that that might be appropriate.
> 
> To address at least some of what has happened here, I’d just like to say 
> first of all, that here on this list, everyone is viewed and treated equally. 
> Every race, creed and color is equal here. This goes for our attitudes and 
> opinions as well.
> 
> this does not mean however, that this list is a place to express all 
> attitudes and opinions., This list is no place for political discussions, 
> plain and simple.
> 
> Please keep all discussions of politics and political themes off this list.
> 
> This list is also no place for deliberately inflammatory speech. What this 
> means, is that in the case of signatures, if someone has a sig that simplly 
> states how they personally feel and is not aimed at anyone, then that sig is 
> allowed. This is free speech.
> 
> However, if that signature is being used as a way to get a public message out 
> without actually coming right out and saying that message; and using this 
> list as a vehicle to do so, then that is absolutely not allowed here.
> 
> There is enough going on in the world today that people who would like to 
> share their political views in discussion or debate should have ample forums 
> in which to do so. This list is not one of them.
> 
> This list is a technology list so that is where our discussions should be 
> focused.
> 
> If you feel you need to get a message out or feel that you cannot be 
> respectful of others and their experiences or cannot at the very least, be 
> polite, then this list is not the place for you.
> 
> Please consider going somewhere else.
> 
> Lastly, if someone offends you, please write them off-list. Please, whenever 
> possible, be constructive and help de-escalate disagreements. We need to 
> foster common ground and really help each other move ahead.
> 
> We are all users of Apple products here with certain needs in our daily usage 
> of these products. We share these needs as well as the daily victories that 
> these products enable us to have. Sometimes we have set-backs as well. We 
> share those too.
> 
> We are one community here and even though this is just a mailing list in the 
> grand scheme of things, we each provide help and support to each other here. 
> That is our purpose.
> 
> So please keep this in mind when we write to each other here. Please bear in 
> mind that we are people here; we all have lives and stories. We are much more 
> than screen names. Please remember this and act to promote dignaty, respect 
> and politeness.
> 
> It can really go a long way for all of us.
> 
> thank you all so much for reading this. Please know that I appreciate you and 
> this community that we have all built here.
> 
> Let me wish you and yours well.
> Please have a great holiday for those who celebrate and a great weekend for 
> everyone!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Cara
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/793F23C2-8386-4256-894E-2D4589621769%40caraquinn.com.

Sent from Petrus' MacBook 

-- 
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list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
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Your Mac Visionaries list

Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Petrus Tuerlings

I’m sorry Phill,
But your Argument would hold more value if you weren’t guilty of the same 
thing. You have the nerve to talk about freedom of speech and the right to have 
what ever signature you want. But you were quite happy to make a perfectly 
decent gentlemen delete his actual name that was spelt out in the  arabic 
alphabet and it offended your sensitive little ears. I know you blocked him but 
you still had to speak your disapproval of someone using their own name 
publicly. And it is his identity  and I know whoo I’d rather be friends with if 
I ever got to meet any one of you. . 

> On 2/07/2020, at 13:01, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> I don’t see how there’s anything bigoted, racist, disrespectful, or 
> insensitive about Ray’s signature. The man is white he’s a Christian and he’s 
> from the south, and he’s tired of being told That all those three things are 
> terrible. And simon, why should ray have to remove his signature when we are 
> exposed to the crap about ancient aliens every day. Frankly I don’t like 
> hearing about aliens as our progenitors, or whatever the hell he believes, 
> but I don’t get my nose all out of joint about it. Nobody has to shut up or 
> wipe their signatures. That’s called free-speech, and that’s One of the main 
> reasons  why we threw the British crown out of the colonies, so we could 
> speak our damn minds. apparently  You all hate free-speech and you love 
> conformity and that’s really too damn bad.
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> 
>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Robin  wrote:
>> 
>> What  I  Meant was: Mr.BarefootRay's Signature Represents "Him"
>> &
>> I  Rather Know Where "He" Stands
>> 
>> All that  You Said about Mr.BarefootRay, I  AgreeWith
>> 
>> MyApologies if There was a  MisUnderStanding with MyOPreviousPosting to 
>> ThisThread
>> 
>> 
>> At 02:29 PM 7/1/2020, you wrote:
>>> other than itâ€™s bigoted and racist, and disrespectful and insensitive, no 
>>> thereâ€™s not a *thing* wrong with that! *rolling eyes*
>>> 
>>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 5:27 PM, Robin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Don'tThink:
>>> There's AnyThing Wrong with Mr.BarefootRay's Signature, so He shouldn't Be 
>>> Forced to Change or Alter HisSignature.
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Brandon Olivares

Hey Ray,

Just want to at least say from one person that I think you should be able to 
put anything you want in your signature. It was others making an issue of your 
signature, not you. If someone put something “politically correct” in their 
signature, no one would care. I commend you for standing up for what you 
believe.

Brandon

> On Jul 1, 2020, at 9:10 PM, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
> Phill, a huge thank you.  I’m purposefully doing this openly because it’s not 
> easy to stand alone against the ridicule of others.  Therefore, I think 
> support given publicly needs to be acknowledged publicly.  
> I will never apologize for my Whiteness, my Catholicism or my Southernness
> 
> Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> The constantly barefooted Ray
> 
>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 8:01 PM, Phil Halton > > wrote:
>> 
>> I don’t see how there’s anything bigoted, racist, disrespectful, or 
>> insensitive about Ray’s signature. The man is white he’s a Christian and 
>> he’s from the south, and he’s tired of being told That all those three 
>> things are terrible. And simon, why should ray have to remove his signature 
>> when we are exposed to the crap about ancient aliens every day. Frankly I 
>> don’t like hearing about aliens as our progenitors, or whatever the hell he 
>> believes, but I don’t get my nose all out of joint about it. Nobody has to 
>> shut up or wipe their signatures. That’s called free-speech, and that’s One 
>> of the main reasons  why we threw the British crown out of the colonies, so 
>> we could speak our damn minds. apparently  You all hate free-speech and you 
>> love conformity and that’s really too damn bad.
>> 
>> Sent from my IPhone
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Robin >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> What  I  Meant was: Mr.BarefootRay's Signature Represents "Him"
>>> &
>>> I  Rather Know Where "He" Stands
>>> 
>>> All that  You Said about Mr.BarefootRay, I  AgreeWith
>>> 
>>> MyApologies if There was a  MisUnderStanding with MyOPreviousPosting to 
>>> ThisThread
>>> 
>>> 
>>> At 02:29 PM 7/1/2020, you wrote:
 other than itâ€™s bigoted and racist, and disrespectful and insensitive, 
 no thereâ€™s not a *thing* wrong with that! *rolling eyes*
 
 On Jul 1, 2020, at 5:27 PM, Robin >>> > wrote:
 
 Don'tThink:
 There's AnyThing Wrong with Mr.BarefootRay's Signature, so He shouldn't Be 
 Forced to Change or Alter HisSignature.
 
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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Dave Carlson

Robin,

At the bottom of every message you will find:

The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.
 
If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com 

Dave Carlson
Oregonian, Engineer, Musician, Farfar, Woodworker, and Pioneer




On Jul 2, 2020, at 9:41 AM, Robin  wrote:

"Who" are The Moderators of This MailingList?
&
Wonder if "They" support The Views  of TheMembers/Subscribers, which would be 
The Reason, "Why" they are Allowing This Thread to Continue
EvenThough 
it's OFF Topic/Subject

I've tried to Steer this Thread Back ON Topic/Subject to No Avail
 
At 04:05 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
> No thatâ€™s why Iâ€™m sorry Julie,
>  
> I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
> I believe it is time 
>   To block the sender and trash their emails,
>  
> Which I hate to say could cause me to miss emails of interest from other 
> members.itâ€™s just so interesting to hear how these perfect people react, 
> must be difficult living in their close minded worlds.
>  
> Simon F
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Julie Rattray
> Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>  
> It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a moderator 
> stopping this I think that is the issue 
> 
> 
> On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
>  
> Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,
>  
> That wasnâ€™t my intention to make it happen.
> Regards,
>  
>  
> Simon F
>  
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com < macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> On 
> Behalf Of Brad Snyder
> Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>  
> I completely agree.  I canâ€™t believe the moderator has been silent and 
> allowed this crap to go on.
> Unlike a Groups.io email list, I am not aware of a way to mute a topic.
> It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from the 
> list.
> 
> - Brad -
>  
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson  wrote:
>  
> and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to 
> this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I 
> can get mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what Iâ€™ve seen here, and to 
> those who were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am 
> just hopeful of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting 
> them are gone. 
>  
>  
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries < 
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>  
> Hi,
>  
> Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
> Iâ€™ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
> myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
> list.
>  
> Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.
>  
> Later…
>  
>  
>  
> -- 
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> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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>  .
>  
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>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>

RE: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Karen Lewellen


Simon,
You are not  the reason Tim and others chose to depart.
Kare



On Thu, 2 Jul 2020, Simon A Fogarty wrote:


Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,

That wasn???t my intention to make it happen.
Regards,


Simon F


From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Brad Snyder
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

I completely agree.  I can???t believe the moderator has been silent and 
allowed this crap to go on.
Unlike a Groups.io email list, I am not aware of a way to 
mute a topic.
It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from the list.

- Brad -

On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson 
mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:

and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to this 
piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I can get 
mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I???ve seen here, and to those who 
were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful 
of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them are gone.


On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
I???ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
list.

Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later???



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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Yep. I’d love to see Thunderbird get the same work. It probably won’t be as 
“native” as Mail.app but it has more functionality, and plugins. Great choice 
on Windows.

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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Karen Lewellen

Further,
This is not the general public.
At no time has there been a thread focused on ray's personal definitions,
because there is nothing about the focus of this list that translates
into anyone doing what Ray claims in his signature. No one has
heretofore required him to apologize for his misguided dictionary.

Making his signature wrong for this list.
To be sure, choosing offense is just that a choice, much like making up a
sense of feeling threatened by nonexistent list members asking you to
apologize for terms you are not defining correctly in the first place.

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020, alia robinson wrote:

religious and political sigs have no place on a mac list. the only thing we
should be speaking about are our macs. if white racists want to start their
own group go ahead. funny how you bigots tout free speech until someone calls
you out on your hate, and then we need to shut up! free speech goes both ways,
and when hate is spoken people who care call it out. at least I do. I am a
bisexual liberal witch, but you don’t see me coming on here with signatures
about it b/c it’s not the appropriate place. take it off list.
On Jul 1, 2020, at 9:01 PM, Phil Halton wrote:

I don’t see how there’s anything bigoted, racist, disrespectful, or insensitive
about Ray’s signature. The man is white he’s a Christian and he’s from the
south, and he’s tired of being told That all those three things are terrible.
And simon, why should ray have to remove his signature when we are exposed to
the crap about ancient aliens every day. Frankly I don’t like hearing about
aliens as our progenitors, or whatever the hell he believes, but I don’t get my
nose all out of joint about it. Nobody has to shut up or wipe their signatures.
That’s called free-speech, and that’s One of the main reasons why we threw the
British crown out of the colonies, so we could speak our damn minds. apparently
You all hate free-speech and you love conformity and that’s really too damn
bad.

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Moderator Note - Signatures and Politics etc on the List

2020-07-02 Thread Cara Quinn

Hi All,

Firstly, please let me apologize for the delay in writing. My keeping up with 
each topic these days has been in fits and starts.

I want to thank a hand full of kind souls who highlighted the recent troubling 
thread. -And I needed to make sure I read through the thread(s) in entirety 
before I spoke.

Regrettably, we have people who have either left this list over the last couple 
of days or those who feel that that might be appropriate.

To address at least some of what has happened here, I’d just like to say first 
of all, that here on this list, everyone is viewed and treated equally. Every 
race, creed and color is equal here. This goes for our attitudes and opinions 
as well.

this does not mean however, that this list is a place to express all attitudes 
and opinions., This list is no place for political discussions, plain and 
simple.

Please keep all discussions of politics and political themes off this list.

This list is also no place for deliberately inflammatory speech. What this 
means, is that in the case of signatures, if someone has a sig that simplly 
states how they personally feel and is not aimed at anyone, then that sig is 
allowed. This is free speech.

However, if that signature is being used as a way to get a public message out 
without actually coming right out and saying that message; and using this list 
as a vehicle to do so, then that is absolutely not allowed here.

There is enough going on in the world today that people who would like to share 
their political views in discussion or debate should have ample forums in which 
to do so. This list is not one of them.

This list is a technology list so that is where our discussions should be 
focused.

If you feel you need to get a message out or feel that you cannot be respectful 
of others and their experiences or cannot at the very least, be polite, then 
this list is not the place for you.

Please consider going somewhere else.

Lastly, if someone offends you, please write them off-list. Please, whenever 
possible, be constructive and help de-escalate disagreements. We need to foster 
common ground and really help each other move ahead.

We are all users of Apple products here with certain needs in our daily usage 
of these products. We share these needs as well as the daily victories that 
these products enable us to have. Sometimes we have set-backs as well. We share 
those too.

We are one community here and even though this is just a mailing list in the 
grand scheme of things, we each provide help and support to each other here. 
That is our purpose.

So please keep this in mind when we write to each other here. Please bear in 
mind that we are people here; we all have lives and stories. We are much more 
than screen names. Please remember this and act to promote dignaty, respect and 
politeness.

It can really go a long way for all of us.

thank you all so much for reading this. Please know that I appreciate you and 
this community that we have all built here.

Let me wish you and yours well.
Please have a great holiday for those who celebrate and a great weekend for 
everyone!

Cheers!

Cara


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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

   They had started to work on it a few years back and were making a lot of 
progress. All of a sudden, it stopped and I could never find an explanation. 
Firefox would work to a certain extent, but it’s much better now. I’d really 
suggest trying it out.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:51 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   We can dream big and support the effort. I was actually surprised to learn 
> that Firefox was getting VO support.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Freedom of Speech Carries With
> It Implicit Responsibility.
> 
> On 7/2/2020 10:44 AM, John Panarese wrote:
>>That would be nice. I’m hoping that a lot of developers will get on the 
>> VoiceOver train now with the increase in popularity of the Mac among the 
>> blind.
>> Take Care
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:41 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   I hear you there. I wonde if Thunderbird will follow suit
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Freedom of Speech Carries With
>>> It Implicit Responsibility.
>>> 
>>> On 7/2/2020 10:34 AM, John Panarese wrote:
   It’s really nice to read that they have a plan in place and are seeing 
 this through. I really wanted an additional web browser beyond Safari that 
 was not Google Chrome.
 Take Care
 John D. Panarese
 Director
 Mac for the Blind
 Tel, (631) 724-4479
 Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
 Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
 APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
 AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
 MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:29 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   You bet. There is a lot in the blog, I skimmed it and will read more 
> later.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Freedom of Speech Carries With
> It Implicit Responsibility.
> 
> On 7/2/2020 10:19 AM, John Panarese wrote:
>>   Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.
>> Take Care
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   Here it is John.
>>> 
>>>  Forwarded Message 
>>> Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>>> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
>>> From: Mike Arrigo 
>>> Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover 
>>> support in Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to 
>>> a great start.
>>> https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>> itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
>>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/097B8C62-2624-4846-A909-381A1C0B4161%40charter.net.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about

Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

   We can dream big and support the effort. I was actually surprised to 
learn that Firefox was getting VO support.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:44 AM, John Panarese wrote:

That would be nice. I’m hoping that a lot of developers will get on the 
VoiceOver train now with the increase in popularity of the Mac among the blind.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT





On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:41 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   I hear you there. I wonde if Thunderbird will follow suit

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:34 AM, John Panarese wrote:

   It’s really nice to read that they have a plan in place and are seeing this 
through. I really wanted an additional web browser beyond Safari that was not 
Google Chrome.
Take Care
John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT

On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:29 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   You bet. There is a lot in the blog, I skimmed it and will read more later.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:19 AM, John Panarese wrote:

   Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.
Take Care
John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT

On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   Here it is John.

 Forwarded Message 
Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
From: Mike Arrigo 
Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover support in 
Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a great start.
https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/

--
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list.

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feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn -

Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

   That would be nice. I’m hoping that a lot of developers will get on the 
VoiceOver train now with the increase in popularity of the Mac among the blind.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:41 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   I hear you there. I wonde if Thunderbird will follow suit
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Freedom of Speech Carries With
> It Implicit Responsibility.
> 
> On 7/2/2020 10:34 AM, John Panarese wrote:
>>   It’s really nice to read that they have a plan in place and are seeing 
>> this through. I really wanted an additional web browser beyond Safari that 
>> was not Google Chrome.
>> Take Care
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:29 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   You bet. There is a lot in the blog, I skimmed it and will read more 
>>> later.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Freedom of Speech Carries With
>>> It Implicit Responsibility.
>>> 
>>> On 7/2/2020 10:19 AM, John Panarese wrote:
   Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.
 Take Care
 John D. Panarese
 Director
 Mac for the Blind
 Tel, (631) 724-4479
 Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
 Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
 APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
 AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
 MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Here it is John.
> 
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
> From: Mike Arrigo 
> Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover 
> support in Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a 
> great start.
> https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/097B8C62-2624-4846-A909-381A1C0B4161%40charter.net.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/868175b1-fc49-ce04-15ce-a60593e298e0%40icloud.com.
> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you

Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac


   I hear you there. I wonde if Thunderbird will follow suit

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:34 AM, John Panarese wrote:

   It’s really nice to read that they have a plan in place and are seeing this 
through. I really wanted an additional web browser beyond Safari that was not 
Google Chrome.



Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT





On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:29 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   You bet. There is a lot in the blog, I skimmed it and will read more later.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:19 AM, John Panarese wrote:

   Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.
Take Care
John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT

On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   Here it is John.

 Forwarded Message 
Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
From: Mike Arrigo 
Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover support in 
Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a great start.
https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
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feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

  It’s really nice to read that they have a plan in place and are seeing this 
through. I really wanted an additional web browser beyond Safari that was not 
Google Chrome.



Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:29 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   You bet. There is a lot in the blog, I skimmed it and will read more later.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Freedom of Speech Carries With
> It Implicit Responsibility.
> 
> On 7/2/2020 10:19 AM, John Panarese wrote:
>>   Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.
>> Take Care
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   Here it is John.
>>> 
>>>  Forwarded Message 
>>> Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>>> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
>>> From: Mike Arrigo 
>>> Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover support 
>>> in Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a great 
>>> start.
>>> https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/097B8C62-2624-4846-A909-381A1C0B4161%40charter.net.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/868175b1-fc49-ce04-15ce-a60593e298e0%40icloud.com.
>>> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> 

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about

Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

   You bet. There is a lot in the blog, I skimmed it and will read more 
later.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 10:19 AM, John Panarese wrote:

   Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT





On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   Here it is John.

 Forwarded Message 
Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
From: Mike Arrigo 
Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover support in 
Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a great start.
https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
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<>

Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

  Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Here it is John.
> 
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
> From: Mike Arrigo 
> Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover support 
> in Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a great start.
> https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> 
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> 

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Fwd: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

   Here it is John.

 Forwarded Message 
Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
From: Mike Arrigo 
Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover 
support in Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to 
a great start.

https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/

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at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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<>

Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

  Roger that.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:06 PM, Robin  wrote:
> 
> MayBe that Person should Create a   NEW Thread, as This1 is Serverely 
> Derailed?
> Just Sayin
> 
> I  tried  & attempted to get This Thread Back On Track  to No Avail
> 
> At 10:00 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
>>Ok. To get this back on track, could someone please repost the original 
>> article on Firefox. This is of great interest to me. I have been messing 
>> with FF on the Mac for a long time and accessibility is finally improving 
>> again with VoiceOver. Itâ€™s actually to the point of being quite usable.
>> 
>> 
>> Take Care
>> 
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com 
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com 
>> 
>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>> 
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> 
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> > On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:56 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>> > mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >   Cara Quinn, owner and Mark Taylor. moderator, their contact information 
>> > is in the footer. And I doubt very much they support hatred.
>> >
>> > From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> >   ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> > Freedom of Speech Carries With
>> > It Implicit Responsibility.
>> >
>> > On 7/2/2020 9:41 AM, Robin wrote:
>> >> "Who" are The Moderators of This MailingList?
>> >> &
>> >> Wonder if "They" support The Views  of TheMembers/Subscribers, which 
>> >> would be The Reason, "Why" they are Allowing This Thread to Continue
>> >> EvenThough
>> >> it's OFF Topic/Subject
>> >> I've tried to Steer this Thread Back ON Topic/Subject to No Avail
>> >> At 04:05 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
>> >>> No thatÃ¢€™s why IÃ¢€™m sorry Jsorry Julie,
>> >>>
>> >>> I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
>> >>> I believe it is time
>> >>>   To block the sender and trash their emails,
>> >>>
>> >>> Which I hate to say could cause me to miss emails of interest from other 
>> >>> members.itÃ¢€™s just so interesting to hear how theseese perfect people 
>> >>> react, must be difficult living in their close minded worlds.
>> >>>
>> >>> Simon F
>> >>> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> >>>  
>> >>> > >>> > *On Behalf Of *Julie Rattray
>> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
>> >>> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> >>> 
>> >>> *Subject:* Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the 
>> >>> mac
>> >>>
>> >>> It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a 
>> >>> moderator stopping this I think that is the issue
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty > >>> 
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,
>> >>>
>> >>>That wasnÃ¢€™t my intention to make it happen.
>> .
>> >>>Regards,
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Simon F
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> >>> 
>> >>>> >>> >
>> >>>> >>> 
>> >>>> >>> >> On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
>> >>>Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
>> >>>To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> >>> 
>> >>>> >>> >
>> >>>Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on
>> >>>the mac
>> >>>
>> >>>I completely agree.  I canÃ¢€™t believe the modeoderator has been
>> >>>silent and allowed this crap to go on.
>> >>>Unlike a Groups.io  > >>> > email list, I am not aware
>> >>>of a way to mute a topic.
>> >>>It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe
>> >>>from the list.
>> >>>
>> >>>- Brad -
>> >>>
>> >>>On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson > >>> 
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as
>> >>>opposed to this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and
>> >>>

Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac


MayBe that Person should Create a   NEW Thread, as This1 is Serverely Derailed?
Just Sayin

I  tried  & attempted to get This Thread Back On Track  to No Avail

At 10:00 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
Ok. To get this back on track, could 
someone please repost the original article on 
Firefox. This is of great interest to me. I 
have been messing with FF on the Mac for a long 
time and accessibility is finally improving 
again with VoiceOver. Itâ€™s actually to the point of being quite usable.



Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:56 PM, 'E.T.' via 
MacVisionaries  wrote:

>
>   Cara Quinn, owner and Mark Taylor. 
moderator, their contact information is in the 
footer. And I doubt very much they support hatred.

>
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Freedom of Speech Carries With
> It Implicit Responsibility.
>
> On 7/2/2020 9:41 AM, Robin wrote:
>> "Who" are The Moderators of This MailingList?
>> &
>> Wonder if "They" support The Views  of 
TheMembers/Subscribers, which would be The 
Reason, "Why" they are Allowing This Thread to Continue

>> EvenThough
>> it's OFF Topic/Subject
>> I've tried to Steer this Thread Back ON Topic/Subject to No Avail
>> At 04:05 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
>>> No thatÃ¢€™s why IÃ¢€™m sorry Jsorry Julie,
>>>
>>> I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
>>> I believe it is time
>>>   To block the sender and trash their emails,
>>>
>>> Which I hate to say could cause me to miss 
emails of interest from other members.itÃ¢€™s 
just so interesting to hear how theseese 
perfect people react, must be difficult living in their close minded worlds.

>>>
>>> Simon F
>>> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 *On Behalf Of *Julie Rattray

>>> *Sent:* Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
>>> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: Endding the RE: article on 
Firefox accessibility on the mac

>>>
>>> It was not you that made people leave it is 
rather the lack of a moderator stopping this I think that is the issue

>>>
>>>
>>>On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty >>> wrote:
>>>
>>>Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,
>>>
>>>That wasnÃ¢€™t my intention to make it happen.
.
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>Simon F
>>>
>>>
>>>From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
>>>Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
>>>To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>
>>>Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on
>>>the mac
>>>
>>>I completely agree.  I canÃ¢€™t believe the modeoderator has been
>>>silent and allowed this crap to go on.
>>>Unlike a Groups.io  email list, I am not aware
>>>of a way to mute a topic.
>>>It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe
>>>from the list.
>>>
>>>- Brad -
>>>
>>>On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson >>> wrote:
>>>
>>>and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as
>>>opposed to this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and
>>>staying. I too am gone. I can get mac support anywhere. I am
>>>ashamed of what IÃ¢€™ve seen here, and to those se who were supportive
>>>you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful of
>>>a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them
>>>are gone.
>>>
>>>
>>>On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive
>>>bigotry.  IÃ¢€™ve got much better things to do wo with my time and
>>>would prefer to surround myself with 
tolerant, respectful people. Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this list.

>>>
>>>Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.
>>>
>>>Later…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-- The following information is 
important for all members of the Mac

>>>Visionaries list.
>>>
>>>If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
>>>list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please
>>>contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on
>>>the list itself.
>>>
>>>Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach
>>>mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is
>>>Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>
>>>
>>>

Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

it's Certainly " Distrubin' " that Neither of 
Them have Chimed IN on this Thread, as Others 
have   indicated that They have ReachedOut to Them concerning  it


Makes Me Wonder

Thanks 4 Responding!
At 09:56 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
   Cara Quinn, owner and Mark Taylor. 
moderator, their contact information is in the 
footer. And I doubt very much they support hatred.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 9:41 AM, Robin wrote:

"Who" are The Moderators of This MailingList?
&
Wonder if "They" support The ViewsÂ  of 
TheMembers/Subscribers, which would be The 
Reason, "Why" they are Allowing This Thread to Continue

EvenThough
it's OFF Topic/Subject
I've tried to Steer this Thread Back ON Topic/Subject to No Avail
At 04:05 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:

No thatÃ¢€™s why IÃ¢€™m sorry Juorry Julie,

I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
I believe it is time
Â  To block the sender and trash their emails,

Which I hate to say could cause me to miss 
emails of interest from other members.itÃ¢€™s 
just so interesting to hear ho how these 
perfect people react, must be difficult living in their close minded worlds.


Simon F
*From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 *On Behalf Of *Julie Rattray

*Sent:* Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
*To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

It was not you that made people leave it is 
rather the lack of a moderator stopping this I think that is the issue



On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,

That wasnÃ¢€™t my intention to make it happen.

.

Regards,


Simon F


From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on
the mac

I completely agree.Â  I canÃ¢€™t believe thethe moderator has been
silent and allowed this crap to go on.
Unlike a Groups.io  email list, I am not aware
of a way to mute a topic.
It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe
from the list.

- Brad -

On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:

and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as
opposed to this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and
staying. I too am gone. I can get mac support anywhere. I am
ashamed of what IÃ¢€™ve seen here, and to those se who were supportive
you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful of
a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them
are gone.


On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive
bigotry.Â  IÃ¢€™ve got much better things to to do with my time and
would prefer to surround myself with 
tolerant, respectful people. Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this list.


Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later…

>>



-- The following information is 
important for all members of the Mac

Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please
contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on
the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach
mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is
Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com


The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
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.
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.

-- The following information is 
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Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate,

Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Ok. To get this back on track, could someone please repost the original 
article on Firefox. This is of great interest to me. I have been messing with 
FF on the Mac for a long time and accessibility is finally improving again with 
VoiceOver. It’s actually to the point of being quite usable.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:56 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Cara Quinn, owner and Mark Taylor. moderator, their contact information is 
> in the footer. And I doubt very much they support hatred.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Freedom of Speech Carries With
> It Implicit Responsibility.
> 
> On 7/2/2020 9:41 AM, Robin wrote:
>> "Who" are The Moderators of This MailingList?
>> &
>> Wonder if "They" support The Views  of TheMembers/Subscribers, which would 
>> be The Reason, "Why" they are Allowing This Thread to Continue
>> EvenThough
>> it's OFF Topic/Subject
>> I've tried to Steer this Thread Back ON Topic/Subject to No Avail
>> At 04:05 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
>>> No thatâ€™s why Iâ€™m sorry Julie,
>>> 
>>> I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
>>> I believe it is time
>>>   To block the sender and trash their emails,
>>> 
>>> Which I hate to say could cause me to miss emails of interest from other 
>>> members.itâ€™s just so interesting to hear how these perfect people react, 
>>> must be difficult living in their close minded worlds.
>>> 
>>> Simon F
>>> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  
>>> *On Behalf Of *Julie Rattray
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
>>> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>>> 
>>> It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a moderator 
>>> stopping this I think that is the issue
>>> 
>>> 
>>>On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty >>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,
>>> 
>>>That wasnâ€™t my intention to make it happen.
>>>Regards,
>>> 
>>> 
>>>Simon F
>>> 
>>> 
>>>From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
>>>Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
>>>To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>
>>>Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on
>>>the mac
>>> 
>>>I completely agree.  I canâ€™t believe the moderator has been
>>>silent and allowed this crap to go on.
>>>Unlike a Groups.io  email list, I am not aware
>>>of a way to mute a topic.
>>>It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe
>>>from the list.
>>> 
>>>- Brad -
>>> 
>>>On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson >>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as
>>>opposed to this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and
>>>staying. I too am gone. I can get mac support anywhere. I am
>>>ashamed of what Iâ€™ve seen here, and to those who were supportive
>>>you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful of
>>>a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them
>>>are gone.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries
>>>>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>Hi,
>>> 
>>>Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive
>>>bigotry.  Iâ€™ve got much better things to do with my time and
>>>would prefer to surround myself with tolerant, respectful people. 
>>> Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this list.
>>> 
>>>Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.
>>> 
>>>Later…
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

   Cara Quinn, owner and Mark Taylor. moderator, their contact 
information is in the footer. And I doubt very much they support hatred.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/2/2020 9:41 AM, Robin wrote:

"Who" are The Moderators of This MailingList?
&
Wonder if "They" support The Views  of TheMembers/Subscribers, which 
would be The Reason, "Why" they are Allowing This Thread to Continue

EvenThough
it's OFF Topic/Subject

I've tried to Steer this Thread Back ON Topic/Subject to No Avail

At 04:05 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:

No thatâ€™s why Iâ€™m sorry Julie,

I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
I believe it is time
  To block the sender and trash their emails,

Which I hate to say could cause me to miss emails of interest from 
other members.itâ€™s just so interesting to hear how these perfect 
people react, must be difficult living in their close minded worlds.


Simon F
*From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 *On Behalf Of *Julie Rattray

*Sent:* Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
*To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a 
moderator stopping this I think that is the issue



On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,

That wasnâ€™t my intention to make it happen.
Regards,


Simon F


From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on
the mac

I completely agree.  I canâ€™t believe the moderator has been
silent and allowed this crap to go on.
Unlike a Groups.io  email list, I am not aware
of a way to mute a topic.
It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe
from the list.

- Brad -

On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:

and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as
opposed to this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and
staying. I too am gone. I can get mac support anywhere. I am
ashamed of what Iâ€™ve seen here, and to those who were supportive
you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful of
a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them
are gone.


On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive
bigotry.  Iâ€™ve got much better things to do with my time and
would prefer to surround myself with tolerant, respectful people. 
Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this list.


Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later…



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mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is
Cara Quinn - you can reach

RE: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac


"Who" are The Moderators of This MailingList?
&
Wonder if "They" support The Views  of 
TheMembers/Subscribers, which would be The 
Reason, "Why" they are Allowing This Thread to Continue

EvenThough
it's OFF Topic/Subject

I've tried to Steer this Thread Back ON Topic/Subject to No Avail

At 04:05 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:

No thatâ€™s why Iâ€™m sorry Julie,

I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
I believe it is time
  To block the sender and trash their emails,

Which I hate to say could cause me to miss 
emails of interest from other members.itâ€™s 
just so interesting to hear how these perfect 
people react, must be difficult living in their close minded worlds.


Simon F
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 On Behalf Of Julie Rattray

Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

It was not you that made people leave it is 
rather the lack of a moderator stopping this I think that is the issue



On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty 
<si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:


Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,

That wasnâ€™t my intention to make it happen.
Regards,


Simon F


From: 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
On Behalf Of Brad Snyder

Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

I completely agree.  I canâ€™t believe the 
moderator has been silent and allowed this crap to go on.
Unlike a Groups.io email 
list, I am not aware of a way to mute a topic.
It appears that the only way to deal with this 
is to unsubscribe from the list.


- Brad -

On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson 
<ali...@gmail.com> wrote:


and my point is made. we just lost a good member 
of the list as opposed to this piece of trash 
who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am 
gone. I can get mac support anywhere. I am 
ashamed of what Iâ€™ve seen here, and to those 
who were supportive you rock. to people like 
ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful of a 
future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them are gone.



On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via 
MacVisionaries 
<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
wrote:


Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this 
sort of insensitive bigotry.  Iâ€™ve got much 
better things to do with my time and would 
prefer to surround myself with tolerant, 
respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this list.


Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later…



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member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


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Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
mktay@ucla.eduand your 
owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com


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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries

   Blocking addresses is one way but does not solve it completely. 
Perhaps deleting a thread without reading it.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Freedom of Speech Carries With
It Implicit Responsibility.

On 7/1/2020 11:08 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been silent and 
allowed this crap to go on.
Unlike a Groups.io  email list, I am not aware of a 
way to mute a topic.
It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from 
the list.


- Brad -


On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson > wrote:


and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed 
to this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am 
gone. I can get mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I’ve seen 
here, and to those who were supportive you rock. to people like ray, 
phil and chuck I am just hopeful of a future world where these attitudes 
and the people spouting them are gone.



On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> wrote:


Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive 
bigotry.  I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would 
prefer to surround myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am 
unsubscribing from this list.


Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later…



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at: mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 



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<>

Re: Frustrated with captcha.

2020-07-02 Thread 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries

I have two github identities and don't recall any problems signing up.
That probably means I found the audio captcha workable.

But, I also don't recall that you need to solve two of them. Are you
sure there are actually two? Perhaps they've written the screen prompts
in a confusing way?

Best,

Janina

Anders Holmberg writes:
> Hi!
> Trying to register to GitHub.
> But there’s a verification by captcha there.
> THe first one has an audio option but the next one is a puzzle.
> Is anyone here registered at github and may be able to give me some help.
> /A
> 
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-- 

Janina Sajka
https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa

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Re: Firefox on the Mac somewhat works now.

2020-07-02 Thread Mike Arrigo

At this time voiceover just says there are no menu options available
for each category, I think that support will be coming later this year.

Original message:
SO DOES THE ROTOR BRING UP NOTHING IN ANY CATEGORY, OR NOTHING AT all
or is every list in it blank? Also, is this the production or beta?

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn

On Jul 1, 2020, at 2:07 PM, Angus MacKinnon > wrote:

I have found Firefox to work better with VoiceOver (VO). However, VO +
I brings up a small list of Items (about 37 items). VO + U has nothing
but a blank window.

Angus MacKinnon, Personalism Student
Ghandi said, “ It is better to have a heart without words than words
without a heart.”

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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Guys, please don’t leave. If you leave, you just surrender a useful resource to 
some behaviourally challenged individuals and it’s a dead loss to everyone else.

The right thing to do is:

1. Contact the mods and/or owner.

2. Filter your email. Mail.app will do it on macOS; iOS has a block feature for 
recognised senders and a mute thread feature to stop the notifications; iCloud 
and other providers will let you set up rules. You don’t need to help those 
who’ve decided to surrender to their communitarian instincts.

3. Join other lists in case the signal/noise ratio on this list doesn’t return.

4. If you have the time, educate the poor darlings. Most of them are simply 
insulated, not actively malicious or bad people. Their regressive ideologies 
are the product of an easy and culturally homogeneous lifestyle, and their 
conspiratorial hatred is only being encouraged and exploited by some very nasty 
individuals for their own material ends. The key point is that tolerance and 
forgiveness of others is not incompatible with a sense of place and happiness; 
their hearts are, in all likelihood, big enough for everybody, even those who 
are in some insubstantial way different from themselves. Needless to say, do 
that off-list.

5. Try very hard not to reply reflexively or emotionally. It’ll just add to the 
noise and the heat, and more people will feel the need to leave.

Cheers,
Sabahattin

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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Julie Rattray

Thanks Simon 

> On 2 Jul 2020, at 12:15, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Julie,
>  
> My email address is
> si...@blinky-net.com 
>  
> happy to assist if I can
>  
> good luck and don’t stay away to long.
>  
>  
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  > On Behalf Of Julie Rattray
> Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:10 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>  
> Aha agreed I have been really disappointed with the thread and just don’t 
> want this kind of stuff in my inbox so am one of the people who has decided 
> to leave the list - would be happy to keep in touch with some list members as 
> help and advise has been so welcome but at at time when we should all be 
> remembering our humanity some people appear to have lost theirs   
> 
> 
> On 2 Jul 2020, at 12:05, Simon A Fogarty  > wrote:
>  
> No that’s why I’m sorry Julie,
>  
> I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
> I believe it is time
>   To block the sender and trash their emails,
>  
> Which I hate to say could cause me to miss emails of interest from other 
> members.it’s just so interesting to hear how these perfect people react, must 
> be difficult living in their close minded worlds.
>  
> Simon F
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  > On Behalf Of Julie Rattray
> Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>  
> It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a moderator 
> stopping this I think that is the issue 
> 
> 
> 
> On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty  > wrote:
>  
> Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,
>  
> That wasn’t my intention to make it happen.
> Regards,
>  
>  
> Simon F
>  
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  > On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
> Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>  
> I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been silent and 
> allowed this crap to go on.
> Unlike a Groups.io  email list, I am not aware of a way to 
> mute a topic.
> It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from the 
> list.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
>  
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson  > wrote:
>  
> and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to 
> this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I 
> can get mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I’ve seen here, and to 
> those who were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am 
> just hopeful of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting 
> them are gone. 
>  
>  
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
>  
> Hi,
>  
> Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
> I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
> myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
> list.
>  
> Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.
>  
> Later…
>  
>  
>  
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>  
>

RE: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Julie,

My email address is
si...@blinky-net.com

happy to assist if I can

good luck and don’t stay away to long.



From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Julie Rattray
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:10 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Aha agreed I have been really disappointed with the thread and just don’t want 
this kind of stuff in my inbox so am one of the people who has decided to leave 
the list - would be happy to keep in touch with some list members as help and 
advise has been so welcome but at at time when we should all be remembering our 
humanity some people appear to have lost theirs


On 2 Jul 2020, at 12:05, Simon A Fogarty 
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

No that’s why I’m sorry Julie,

I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
I believe it is time
  To block the sender and trash their emails,

Which I hate to say could cause me to miss emails of interest from other 
members.it’s just so interesting to hear how these perfect people react, must 
be difficult living in their close minded worlds.

Simon F
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On 
Behalf Of Julie Rattray
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a moderator 
stopping this I think that is the issue



On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty 
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,

That wasn’t my intention to make it happen.
Regards,


Simon F


From: 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.commailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
 On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been silent and allowed 
this crap to go on.
Unlike a Groups.io email list, I am not aware of a way to 
mute a topic.
It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from the list.

- Brad -

On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson 
mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:

and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to this 
piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I can get 
mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I’ve seen here, and to those who 
were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful 
of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them are gone.


On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
list.

Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later…



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RE: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Fuck sake,

I have only now seen this and I have to admit that this is pushing this shit to 
far.

 Tim is one of the best people both as a member of this list and his knowledge 
of the world of apple.

 Sorry tim that this has caused you to go.

 As they ssay, only the good die young,
 And this list has just lost one of the best.and to you racist pricks causing 
this shit,
Why don't youdo the world a favour and go put your head in a sand hill and 
breath deeply.

Even the animal world has more respect for other chreatures than you self 
centred ignorant shitheads have for your fellow man.

To the majority fof this list who respect and appreciate the usefulness of the 
list content,

I apologise to you for my language,

 But this thread has gone on to long.

I will try again to contact the mods of the list and get them to do something 
for us.

Otherwise I'd suggest setting up a rule in your mail clients or online mail 
services to block the original senders thread for now that is the best we can 
do.with any luck the smarter forms of life on this planet will slap some sense 
in to these people.

Like the cockroach  I just saw run under the door.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Dave Carlson
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 5:15 PM
To: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
Cc: David Carlson 
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

Tim,
You did not give out your personal email. Not sure how to reach you. Mine is 
dgcarlson0...@gmail.com

Dave Carlson
 Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker

On Jul 1, 2020, at 9:47 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
list.

Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later…

Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jul 1, 2020, at 7:10 PM, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:

Phill, a huge thank you.  I’m purposefully doing this openly because it’s not 
easy to stand alone against the ridicule of others.  Therefore, I think support 
given publicly needs to be acknowledged publicly.  
I will never apologize for my Whiteness, my Catholicism or my Southernness

Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray

> On Jul 1, 2020, at 8:01 PM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> I don’t see how there’s anything bigoted, racist, disrespectful, or 
> insensitive about Ray’s signature. The man is white he’s a Christian and he’s 
> from the south, and he’s tired of being told That all those three things are 
> terrible. And simon, why should ray have to remove his signature when we are 
> exposed to the crap about ancient aliens every day. Frankly I don’t like 
> hearing about aliens as our progenitors, or whatever the hell he believes, 
> but I don’t get my nose all out of joint about it. Nobody has to shut up or 
> wipe their signatures. That’s called free-speech, and that’s One of the main 
> reasons  why we threw the British crown out of the colonies, so we could 
> speak our damn minds. apparently  You all hate free-speech and you love 
> conformity and that’s really too damn bad.
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> 
>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Robin  wrote:
>> 
>> What  I  Meant was: Mr.BarefootRay's Signature Represents "Him"
>> &
>> I  Rather Know Where "He" Stands
>> 
>> All that  You Said about Mr.BarefootRay, I  AgreeWith
>> 
>> MyApologies if There was a  MisUnderStanding with MyOPreviousPosting to 
>> ThisThread
>> 
>> 
>> At 02:29 PM 7/1/2020, you wrote:
>>> other than itâ€™s bigoted and racist, and disrespectful and insensitive, no 
>>> thereâ€™s not a *thing* wrong with that! *rolling eyes*
>>> 
>>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 5:27 PM, Robin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Don'tThink:
>>> There's AnyThing Wrong with Mr.BarefootRay's Signature, so He shouldn't Be 
>>> Forced to Change or Alter HisSignature.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails

Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Julie Rattray

Aha agreed I have been really disappointed with the thread and just don’t want 
this kind of stuff in my inbox so am one of the people who has decided to leave 
the list - would be happy to keep in touch with some list members as help and 
advise has been so welcome but at at time when we should all be remembering our 
humanity some people appear to have lost theirs   

> On 2 Jul 2020, at 12:05, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> No that’s why I’m sorry Julie,
>  
> I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
> I believe it is time
>   To block the sender and trash their emails,
>  
> Which I hate to say could cause me to miss emails of interest from other 
> members.it’s just so interesting to hear how these perfect people react, must 
> be difficult living in their close minded worlds.
>  
> Simon F
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Julie Rattray
> Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>  
> It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a moderator 
> stopping this I think that is the issue 
> 
> 
> On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty  > wrote:
>  
> Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,
>  
> That wasn’t my intention to make it happen.
> Regards,
>  
>  
> Simon F
>  
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  > On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
> Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>  
> I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been silent and 
> allowed this crap to go on.
> Unlike a Groups.io  email list, I am not aware of a way to 
> mute a topic.
> It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from the 
> list.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
>  
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson  > wrote:
>  
> and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to 
> this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I 
> can get mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I’ve seen here, and to 
> those who were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am 
> just hopeful of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting 
> them are gone. 
>  
>  
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
>  
> Hi,
>  
> Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
> I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
> myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
> list.
>  
> Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.
>  
> Later…
>  
>  
>  
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5A45291C-2595-4DFD-ACA0-E9DC64A87AE2%40gmail.com
>  
> .
>  
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> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>

RE: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

No that’s why I’m sorry Julie,

I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
I believe it is time
  To block the sender and trash their emails,

Which I hate to say could cause me to miss emails of interest from other 
members.it’s just so interesting to hear how these perfect people react, must 
be difficult living in their close minded worlds.

Simon F
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Julie Rattray
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a moderator 
stopping this I think that is the issue


On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty 
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,

That wasn’t my intention to make it happen.
Regards,


Simon F


From: 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.commailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
 On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been silent and allowed 
this crap to go on.
Unlike a Groups.io email list, I am not aware of a way to 
mute a topic.
It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from the list.

- Brad -

On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson 
mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:

and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to this 
piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I can get 
mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I’ve seen here, and to those who 
were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful 
of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them are gone.


On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi,

Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
list.

Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.

Later…



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feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
mk...@ucla.eduand your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

2020-07-02 Thread Julie Rattray

It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a moderator 
stopping this I think that is the issue 

> On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,
>  
> That wasn’t my intention to make it happen.
> Regards,
>  
>  
> Simon F
>  
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  > On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
> Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>  
> I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been silent and 
> allowed this crap to go on.
> Unlike a Groups.io  email list, I am not aware of a way to 
> mute a topic.
> It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe from the 
> list.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
>  
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson  > wrote:
>  
> and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as opposed to 
> this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and staying. I too am gone. I 
> can get mac support anywhere. I am ashamed of what I’ve seen here, and to 
> those who were supportive you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am 
> just hopeful of a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting 
> them are gone. 
>  
>  
> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
>  
> Hi,
>  
> Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive bigotry.  
> I’ve got much better things to do with my time and would prefer to surround 
> myself with tolerant, respectful people.  Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this 
> list.
>  
> Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.
>  
> Later…
>  
>  
>  
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
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> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
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RE: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac