Re: Problem with numpad on Ventura

[Mike Arrigo]

I actually have everything related to quick navdisabled, including allowing 
single letter quick nav and allow typing in text fields when using single key 
quick nav, the issue still happens with the numpad. Wait until you try an apple 
silicon mac, the speed is so much faster than the Intel processors.

> On Apr 28, 2024, at 3:02 PM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> Ever since Single Letter QuickNav was created, VoiceOver would turn off 
> QuickNav when interacting with  input elements and/or  Text Fields. It sounds 
> like now that Single LetterQuickNav has been separated from arrow QuickNav 
> that they decided to merge this toggle with the numpad commander. Personally 
> I would want this to be a configurable option. I can’t play wit this as I am 
> currently stuck on Mojave . I will probably purchase a new Macintosh in May 
> or June  and have started to determine what system to purchase.
> I will miss my 11 inch MacBook Air that I dubbed “Speedy” as it so 
> outperformed my eMac.   .
> Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 28, 2024, at 1:56 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
>> 
>> My wife also has this issue in Sinoma 
>> Sonoma so not just you. I haven’t noticed this as much as I’m not a big 
>> Numpad Commander user and often use it as an actual num pad. Maybe they 
>> figure that’s how people would want to use it?
>>> On Apr 28, 2024, at 08:52, Paul Hopewell  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> I am running the latest Ventura on my 1917 iMac. I use numpad commander on 
>>> my Apple Magic keyboard with Numpad keys. I use the Numpad keys to navigate 
>>> around my screen.
>>> This all works OK except sometimes when I am entering data into an Edit 
>>> field the numeric values on the Numpad get entered into the Edit area. This 
>>> happens when I am editing data in 1 Password entries and often when I enter 
>>> a password in Safari while logging onto a web site.
>>> Do others encounter this problem? Any ideas on why this happens and what I 
>>> need to do to fix it?
>>> My use of the Numpad commander is habitual and I often forget to stop using 
>>> it in the above cases.
>>> Many thanks for any ideas.
>>> Best …Paul Hopewell
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/2A2EACDD-9BD0-4BC1-B8AD-6FB8BEE5C9D1%40hopewell.org.uk.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/BB610988-A81D-459E-ACC8-933F75B0E89A%40gmail.com.
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this 

Re: Problem with numpad on Ventura

[Mike Arrigo]

This also happens in Sonoma, I would call it a bug. The onlhy work around I 
know of is to use the VO arrow key combinations to leave the edit field after 
you type what you want, using the tab key also works.

> On Apr 28, 2024, at 8:52 AM, Paul Hopewell  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I am running the latest Ventura on my 1917 iMac. I use numpad commander on my 
> Apple Magic keyboard with Numpad keys. I use the Numpad keys to navigate 
> around my screen.
> This all works OK except sometimes when I am entering data into an Edit field 
> the numeric values on the Numpad get entered into the Edit area. This happens 
> when I am editing data in 1 Password entries and often when I enter a 
> password in Safari while logging onto a web site.
> Do others encounter this problem? Any ideas on why this happens and what I 
> need to do to fix it?
> My use of the Numpad commander is habitual and I often forget to stop using 
> it in the above cases.
> Many thanks for any ideas.
> Best …Paul Hopewell
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/2A2EACDD-9BD0-4BC1-B8AD-6FB8BEE5C9D1%40hopewell.org.uk.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/EAFDE3AB-B124-4AE5-84A3-DD80BB0A598C%40charter.net.

Re: Chrome browser on the Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

I didn’t even know Chrome had a built in screen reader on the mac, interesting.

> On Mar 25, 2024, at 2:33 PM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> I installed chrome on my MacBook Pro today and made the mistake of turning on 
> the screen reader during set up. It conflicts with voiceover, giving me 
> double voices etc. How can I shut off the screen reader in Google’s chrome 
> browser on my MacBook Pro. I think I heard something about control alt Z key 
> stroke will turn off the screen reader and I assume that corresponds to 
> control command Z on the Mac keyboard. Is this the valid key stroke for 
> turning the screen raider off?
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/E9D718B0-7A64-4D54-9159-3F93E88F1963%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/F7BE8E08-7467-44CD-901F-22E4788CD8F3%40charter.net.

Re: A question for the list. Which of these two back up products is best or a VO user?

[Mike Arrigo]

I’m notsure if super duper is still in development, but Carbon Copy Cloner is, 
and it’s very accessible.

> On Jan 23, 2024, at 10:35 AM, Maurice A. Mines  wrote:
> 
> Good morning everyone, which one is better or a VO user, in terms of 
> usability and speed. One carbon copy koner? Two Super duper? If anyone has 
> any other suggestion, other than Time machine, please speak up?
> 
> Maurice Mines.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/D6651EB8-1B55-4FA1-AE4B-732620FF7B4C%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/615B0D1C-F0EB-4792-BC64-F97553EBCE66%40charter.net.

Re: How does one Ctrl Click?

[Mike Arrigo]

You can also move voiceover to the item you want to control click, than press 
VO+command+F5 to move the mouse to that item, then choose to right click the 
mouse from the voiceover menu. If you do this frequently you can define a 
keyboard command or trackpad gesture for it.

> On Jan 14, 2024, at 5:08 PM, Brandon Olivares  
> wrote:
> 
> Generally control-click is the same thing as bringing up the context menu, 
> which in VoiceOver is VO-shift-M.
>  From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> Date: Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 6:06 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: How does one Ctrl Click?
> Since with VoiceOver the click event already requires the Control key,
> i.e. VO Spacebar,
> how does one then Control Click an object?
> 
> I'm trying to follow instructions from the support pages for Logic Pro
> which say to Control Click the Control Bar, etc.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka (she/her/hers)
> Accessibility Consultant https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka
> 
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> 
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> https://www.linuxfoundation.org/board-of-directors-2/
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/ZaGeJ4YVHOoe62A5%40rednote.net.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/MN2PR13MB40532400FB2C3FB5104EFF74F06D2%40MN2PR13MB4053.namprd13.prod.outlook.com.


-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/F4A76A26-BFB7-4758-BDC7-61F6F44074D0%40charter.net.

Re: What is the best recording app for aM2 Mac?

[Mike Arrigo]

I use Amadeus Pro, it works great.

> On Jan 12, 2024, at 4:29 PM, Maurice A. Mines  wrote:
> 
> Hi  I am  going  to  a fore day  similar but  I don’t wish to  take  my vary 
> good  podcast recorder. I wood like  to  record som  content for my  podcast 
> that I am restarting. I  wood  like  to  try to  use  the  computers 
> microphone. What  software will  work well  on  my  computer.i will  process 
> the  recordings whin  I return home from the  trip. Enney good  sujestions?
> 
> Maurice Mines.  
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0B229688-D940-4082-935D-78C66CC24AF7%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/E2647B94-698F-4158-811A-0E889667D582%40charter.net.

Re: Using Parallels

[Mike Arrigo]

If you purchase an Apple silicon Mac, you can use Parallels with the version of 
Windows for ARM processors, the company has been contacted by several voiceover 
users about the lack of accessibility and it appears that the company has no 
plans to address it.

> On Dec 29, 2023, at 10:48 AM, 'Matt Turner' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> to set it up, I have to use VOCR to read the screen.
> My VO key is caps lock key.
> it’s like the VM doesn’t see the key.
> 
>> On Dec 29, 2023, at 11:44 AM, Phil Halton  wrote:
>> 
>> Are you saying that parallels is now accessible at least to some degree? I 
>> thought it was a complete black box for Mac voiceover users
>> Sent from my IPhone
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 29, 2023, at 11:14 AM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
>>> 
>>> As  strange as it seems, telling VoiceOver to use the CAPSLOCK key and 
>>> keeping VoiceOver running while in Windows might resolve this issue. It did 
>>> for me with VMWare 3 years ago.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Dec 29, 2023 at 11:02 AM 'Matt Turner' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Hi folks.
>>> I still have and intel mac and wanted to get a new one in the new year.
>>> I’ve been playing with Parallels, and so far I like it.
>>> I just can’t seem to get the Caps lock key to work with Jaws or NVDA.
>>> Does Anyone have any idea?
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/3B6C7382-2B42-4486-8735-EDDA7450E004%40icloud.com.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>  
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>  
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>  
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/CAEL01Ru5DztchJtECsDB_T8RV6H4Om1_LYuXqc%3Dwh%3DjZUj4bdA%40mail.gmail.com.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>  
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>  
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/9235E945-5FF1-4C2D-8EE4-3344AAA09FAC%40gmail.com.
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be 

Re: Using Parallels

[Mike Arrigo]

I’m surprised you got Parallels to work, last time I tried it, it was 
completely inaccessible with Voiceover.

> On Dec 29, 2023, at 10:02 AM, 'Matt Turner' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi folks.
> I still have and intel mac and wanted to get a new one in the new year.
> I’ve been playing with Parallels, and so far I like it.
> I just can’t seem to get the Caps lock key to work with Jaws or NVDA.
> Does Anyone have any idea?
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/3B6C7382-2B42-4486-8735-EDDA7450E004%40icloud.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/CBD78471-A896-414D-950A-B7AEE5016F88%40charter.net.

Re: Accessible robot vacuum cleaners.

[Mike Arrigo]

The roomba app is very accessible, but Roomba's navigation is behind the times, 
it uses a camera for navigation instead of Lidar, I would suggest something 
from Roborock, app is accessible and much better robots.

> On Nov 24, 2023, at 11:30 AM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> iRobot Roomba app is very accessible.
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Farfar, Oregonian, Engineer, Woodworker, Musician
> dgcarlson0...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 24, 2023, at 3:02 AM, Steve Z.  wrote:
> 
> Hi list, first of all, I’m sorry for the off-topic question.
> I would like to know which robot vacuum cleaner is accessible with voiceover, 
> since they all use apps, and how much accessible. for example, what we can, 
> and cannot do.
> Thanks in advance
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/17519B4F-AD95-4F07-9234-18EF8DA1A3F1%40gmail.com.
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/21501A78-3DAC-492D-B72D-68929E79B299%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/8D872EDC-7369-49DA-9FAF-AF7AF648D89A%40charter.net.

Re: Concerned about the future Mac accessibility

[Mike Arrigo]

Wait until you try the Apple Silicon mac, it is so much better and faster than 
the Intel, you will love it.

> On Sep 7, 2023, at 11:53 AM, Maurice A. Mines  wrote:
> 
> Hi  I am  having  some  small  issues, but  no  showstoppers whin  it comes  
> to  Mac OS accessibility. That  being said. I am using  a  beta on  an Intel 
> based Mac. I  am  switching  to  a  silicon based Mac next week. If  I  need 
> Windows for  dictation, thin  I will  use a virtual Windows  installation, to 
>  allow  me  to  due  that.
> 
> Maurice Mines.
> 
>> On Sep 7, 2023, at 16:23, Traci Duncan  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all, it seems like we are having more than a few messages on this list 
>> about the disappointment in Mac’s VoiceOver performance.
>> 
>> Are quite a few of you thinking of switching back to windows? Or are a lot 
>> of you overall still happy with the VoiceOver experience?
>> 
>> I think I am mostly curious about this, because I have been talking about 
>> updating my MacBook Eyre. I guess part of me is beginning to wonder, should 
>> I get a Windows laptop instead? I would be very disappointed to spend $900 
>> on a MacBook Air, and still have a lot of performance issues.
>> 
>> What are your guises thoughts?
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> From Traci's MBA20.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/1B0EC27E-B19C-4661-B8FC-8B1DB2953F0D%40gmail.com.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/DC48BBFF-6478-4969-AF1F-D5CA0477F9A7%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/B66600F6-D0AC-40DA-A133-920660B676FF%40charter.net.

Re: Concerned about the future Mac accessibility

[Mike Arrigo]

I’m quite happy with my macs, especially the new Apple Silicon models, I have 
no interest at all in switching to Windows.

> On Sep 7, 2023, at 11:23 AM, Traci Duncan  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, it seems like we are having more than a few messages on this list 
> about the disappointment in Mac’s VoiceOver performance.
> 
> Are quite a few of you thinking of switching back to windows? Or are a lot of 
> you overall still happy with the VoiceOver experience?
> 
> I think I am mostly curious about this, because I have been talking about 
> updating my MacBook Eyre. I guess part of me is beginning to wonder, should I 
> get a Windows laptop instead? I would be very disappointed to spend $900 on a 
> MacBook Air, and still have a lot of performance issues.
> 
> What are your guises thoughts?
> 
> Thank you,
> From Traci's MBA20.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/1B0EC27E-B19C-4661-B8FC-8B1DB2953F0D%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/47C1C882-E563-4473-BBFE-39E7D35D89C8%40charter.net.

Re: Finder issues becoming more severe

[Mike Arrigo]

Drives should not be disappearing, I have two M1 Mac minis and I have used USB 
flash drives and a Seagate mechanical hard drive, sometimes connected to one of 
the USB A ports and other times using a USB C to USB A adapter and have not had 
any problems at all. One thing I would suggest, always connect drives to the 
Mac itself, no hubs or keyboard ports, those can definitely cause problems.

> On Jun 24, 2023, at 6:16 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>Have you called Apple support? It sounds like something a bit more serious 
> than a simple problem. You might want to see what they say.
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 24, 2023, at 5:04 PM, 'Mary Ward' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello.  I had a drive or two that I thought were causing problems in the 
>> Finder on my M1 Mac mini.  Drives were getting burned up and just not 
>> functioning right.  I got rid of the hub.  Unfortunately, though, I am now 
>> having problems with drives no matter how they are connected.  Is the Finder 
>> just not stable on these Macs?  I even plugged a little thumb drive into the 
>> USB port on my Apple keyboard.  I tried several times to copy some files and 
>> the drive disappears.  I expect it to be slow, but not to disappear.
>> 
>> Is this a known problem?  Do I need to take this Mac to the Apple Store?  
>> Thanks for any insights into this growing problem.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/FB7E228B-774B-4331-B411-846DCF4237F6%40icloud.com.
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/9EB34E7A-D7C8-44D5-B735-D1824B1F835C%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/E975C6BB-4A48-4173-9BBA-A37D0FBFED1B%40charter.net.

Re: Mack questions

[Mike Arrigo]

I don’t have this power bank but I do have other Anker products and they are 
great so I would suggest checking out this power bank from them.
https://www.anker.com/products/b1291?variant=41742689468566=collectionBuy=WS24129120

> On Jun 23, 2023, at 6:55 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> VO F7 to your last too,questions if running Ventura and there are portable 
> battery banks you can get for Macs. 
> 
>> On Jun 23, 2023, at 16:37, Rebecca Sabo  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all, 
>> I have some mack questions to ask to the list.  Is their a way to get a 
>> extended battery for my mack?  Is their a short cut for finding out what the 
>> battery level is and also a short cut to fine out the time on the computer?
>> Thanks 
>> Becky 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/03D40E56-6E8F-4261-86B0-200B1885A389%40gmail.com.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/344EC99F-42C5-43FF-BB96-686DB9295A25%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/531DEBE3-5C8D-4BBC-88CF-32081525471D%40charter.net.

Re: Mack questions

[Mike Arrigo]

As far as extended batteries, you might consider getting a power bank, these 
are portable batteries with USB ports that will charge recent mac laptops that 
charge over USB C.
As far as speaking the information you asked about, pressing VO+F7 once will 
provide the time and date and pressing it twice will provide battery 
information.

> On Jun 23, 2023, at 6:37 PM, Rebecca Sabo  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, 
> I have some mack questions to ask to the list.  Is their a way to get a 
> extended battery for my mack?  Is their a short cut for finding out what the 
> battery level is and also a short cut to fine out the time on the computer?
> Thanks 
> Becky 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/03D40E56-6E8F-4261-86B0-200B1885A389%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/41097667-A54C-4ECF-84DC-E5085DEEC765%40charter.net.

Re: Dropbox on Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

Yes, you do need to do an actual mouse click on the dropbox item to open it 
now, hopefully they will fix that at some point.

> On Jun 6, 2023, at 10:21 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> From the Website, download the Dropbox app and that will make your life much 
> simpler. The one thing they did break recently is the way you access it 
> through the Menu Extras. You now have to route your VO cursor with Command VO 
> F5 and then VO Shift space, but that’s Livable. Also, I find Chrome works 
> better for the site when doing things like recovering deleted files.
> 
>> On Jun 6, 2023, at 20:10, Janet Ingber  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Everyone,
>> Does anyone know of an accessible Dropbox app for the Mac? I’m not crazy 
>> about using the Dropbox website to upload files.
>> 
>> Many thanks,
>> Janet
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/224BA334-4AA2-401D-BCDC-2321C3A59D02%40gmail.com.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/70B54D77-745F-4D3D-BB1C-31F2B61BAF84%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/7C0D95B7-5DA5-4202-AE90-9E1686499971%40charter.net.

Re: Dropbox on Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

The dropbox mac application works fine, at least it does for me.

> On Jun 6, 2023, at 10:10 PM, Janet Ingber  wrote:
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> Does anyone know of an accessible Dropbox app for the Mac? I’m not crazy 
> about using the Dropbox website to upload files.
> 
> Many thanks,
> Janet
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/224BA334-4AA2-401D-BCDC-2321C3A59D02%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/186D95AB-75F7-42B5-9B83-F8CE9004BB8E%40charter.net.

Re: Running Windows on Apple Silicon MBP

[Mike Arrigo]

What exactly is VOCR? The web page didn’t really describe what it was or how it 
works.

> On Apr 26, 2023, at 7:54 PM, Michael Babcock  wrote:
> 
> I am currently running windows 11 on an M2 Mac mini. I’m using parallels, had 
> to use VOCR in order to get through the set up process, but it’s a pretty 
> seamless process to get going.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 26, 2023, at 5:30 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
>> 
>> I just saw a post from someone about an option called UTM. I understand 
>> they have made some recent changes to improve accessibility.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 26, 2023, at 19:22, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Last I checked, Parallels was not accessible with Voiceover, in order to 
>>> run Windows on an Apple Silicon Mac, you need to sign up for the Microsoft 
>>> insider program and download Windows for ARM processors which has not been 
>>> officially released. If you need to use Windows you would be better off 
>>> just getting a PC.
>>> 
>>>>> On Apr 26, 2023, at 8:13 AM, Jessica Moss  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> To my knowledge, parallels is the only way to do this.  However, I’ve 
>>>> never attempted to do this, so I’m not sure as to how accessible running 
>>>> parallels is.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Apr 26, 2023, at 8:10 AM, Mohamed Fayed  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hope my mail finds you well,
>>>>> 
>>>>> What is the recommended method for running windows 10 or 11 on Apple 
>>>>> Silicon with Mac OS 13? 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I may run either windows 10 or 11. What would be the best option? Or 
>>>>> actually what are the available options in this regards?
>>>>> 
>>>>> How software looks like ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you so much, 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mohamed E. Fayed  
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>>>> --- 
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/A7CD50BB-3440-45B2-B286-6118CDB523B6%40gmail.com.
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>> 
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>> 
>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>>> --- 
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/83797E8E-A4F2-4BA5-9F6D-4377DA45EFF3%40gmail.com.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>

Re: Running Windows on Apple Silicon MBP

[Mike Arrigo]

Last I checked, Parallels was not accessible with Voiceover, in order to run 
Windows on an Apple Silicon Mac, you need to sign up for the Microsoft insider 
program and download Windows for ARM processors which has not been officially 
released. If you need to use Windows you would be better off just getting a PC.

> On Apr 26, 2023, at 8:13 AM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> To my knowledge, parallels is the only way to do this.  However, I’ve never 
> attempted to do this, so I’m not sure as to how accessible running parallels 
> is.
> 
>> On Apr 26, 2023, at 8:10 AM, Mohamed Fayed  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Hope my mail finds you well,
>> 
>> What is the recommended method for running windows 10 or 11 on Apple Silicon 
>> with Mac OS 13? 
>> 
>> I may run either windows 10 or 11. What would be the best option? Or 
>> actually what are the available options in this regards?
>> 
>> How software looks like ?
>> 
>> Thank you so much, 
>> 
>> Mohamed E. Fayed  
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/A7CD50BB-3440-45B2-B286-6118CDB523B6%40gmail.com.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/83797E8E-A4F2-4BA5-9F6D-4377DA45EFF3%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/45BD0E97-0187-435A-9E1F-E86F81063A95%40charter.net.

runningios apps on the mac

[Mike Arrigo]

Hi everyone, I’m wondering if anyone has tried running IOS apps on an Apple 
silicon Mac and if so, how well do they work with Voiceover? Do the controls 
read? I am absolutely loving my new M1 mac minis and M2 MacBook Air. For those 
who have not tried an Apple silicon Mac yet, they are awesome and I think 
Ventura has some really nice features.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/554B2CBB-7DB4-4786-BC26-514F434C2331%40charter.net.

Re: System Preferences Missing

[Mike Arrigo]

It’s now called system settings in Ventura, system preferences is no more.

> On Nov 11, 2022, at 1:23 AM, Mohammad Fazil  wrote:
> 
> Hi, Group.for some unknown reasons, I am not finding system Preference in 
> Apple Menu. What I’m finding is system settings only. Where should I look for 
> SP,please?
> Thanks!
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/E9853A95-64EB-4AE3-8696-A2E1507448D5%40outlook.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/C7FCF082-1D8F-41C5-A3F6-282161AC513E%40charter.net.

Re: VOiceOver fluctuating in pitch after upgrading to Ventura

[Mike Arrigo]

Yes, I have noticed this as well.

> On Nov 9, 2022, at 9:29 AM, Dolores Manzino  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone was experiencing VoiceOver fluctuating in pitch 
> after updating to Ventura. I am and it’s really frustrating. It goes from low 
> to normal, and switching voices or adjusting pitch and intonation in 
> VoiceOver settings doesn’t seem to solve the problem. Right now the Fiona 
> voice sounds like a man, and it’s worse with Alex. Does anyone have any idea 
> how to solve this? I have an EMail into Apple Accessibility. Thank you for 
> any assistance you can provide.
> 
> Have a great day.
> 
> Dolores
> 
> A cat’s purr is the sweetest sound 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5A50571E-8536-4D19-AB03-210970614592%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/8A75F576-5840-46E2-A07D-AD83ADEF8B0E%40charter.net.

Re: Alex Voice

[Mike Arrigo]

There is only one version of the Alex Voice. The best way to adjust the rate in 
small steps is to go to the voiceover utility, choose the speech category and 
interact with the language and voice table. There is an edit field where you 
can type in the rate you want, I use 37 and for me that’s just right.

> On Nov 6, 2022, at 10:22 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
>   Is there just one version of the Alex voice? If I trash it then go back and 
> check the voices list there is Alex at 800 something mb. But it is not listed 
> in the speech rotor. After I download it, its about 955mb. Still trying to 
> fix its speaking rate. Thanks.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
> will make violent revolution inevitable."
> --John F. Kennedy
> My e-Mail:
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5787f24a-f5fd-6cad-9792-5cb191a8a7a7%40icloud.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20B51522-68C0-4879-81F6-CAD11DB4844F%40charter.net.

Re: Installing windows on a Mac.

[Mike Arrigo]

On Apple Silicon macs, the only way to run Windows is to use Parallels, and 
unfortunately that software is completely inaccessible with Voiceover. Also you 
would need to run Windows for Arm processors which at this time is basically in 
beta, also not sure whether any of the screen readers would work with it. If 
you have an Apple silicon Mac, you would be better off getting a separate PC.

> On Nov 2, 2022, at 9:51 AM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> Provided you have an Intel Mac, you can use Bootcamp. Unfortunately, you will 
> have to purchase Windows and I don’t know the cost. It may not be so bad 
> though as you will need Windows 10. M1 Mac you will need a completely 
> different set up and I understand it’s not the most stable. Might be cheaper 
> just to purchase a tablet which is the same thing unless you need a tun of 
> processor power.
> 
>> On Nov 2, 2022, at 09:43, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> I didn’t think I’d ever see myself doing this, sense getting my first Mac, 
>> I’d intended to leave the Windows platform behind.  However, someone on our 
>> team at work has introduced us to training material through DHS, which, as 
>> helpful as it can be, is strictly windows-based, so in order to use its 
>> testing tools to complete the courses they offer, that’s the only choice I 
>> have.  So as a result, I have a couple of questions.
>> First of all, how much is it going to cost to do this, and second, (if I 
>> just took the NVDA route) because buying Jaws at this point is the last 
>> thing I can afford, and something I really don’t want to tie up money in 
>> just to do 1 thing with.  Also, how would I go about installing it with 
>> Voiceover/no CD rom drive?
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/28248E8F-755A-4790-A51B-037446ED22A5%40gmail.com.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/338136FA-53D3-4A61-8C24-9A32D8D2DB81%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/3827EEEF-D38E-4252-83AF-F42F315D36D4%40charter.net.

Re: Shark Clean iOS App

[Mike Arrigo]

Yes, it works really well.

> On Aug 28, 2022, at 11:37 AM, Jeff Berwick  wrote:
> 
> Have you had a good experience with the Roborock mobile app?
> 
> Thx,
> Jeff
> 
> 
>> On Aug 26, 2022, at 7:35 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>> I would say the best robots are from Roborock or Ecovacs, I would not 
>> suggest a Roomba, they are somewhat behind the times compared to the other 
>> two brands I mentioned.
>> 
>>> On Aug 26, 2022, at 2:33 PM, Jeff Berwick  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Happy to discuss.  I’m currently researching the best robot vacuums and 
>>> have found that the iRobot Roomba are currently on sale. 
>>> 
>>> May make the switch.
>>> 
>>> Anybody have any experience with the Roomba app?
>>> 
>>> Thx,
>>> Jeff
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 26, 2022, at 10:04 AM, Shameless FanGirl 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi there,
>>>> 
>>>> I also have a Shark robot, and can confirm exactly what you describe here. 
>>>> App is a hot mess right now. Shall we try networking on this issue? 
>>>> 
>>>> Angie
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 26, 2022, at 5:50 AM, Jeff Berwick  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have a Shark robot vacuum which, until the latest version of the iOS 
>>>>> app, I have been able to work independently.  I do have some grumbles 
>>>>> about the product—I have to set the power level every single time, but 
>>>>> that is something I have taken up with their customer support team.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The latest version of the app is completely inaccessible.  I am able to 
>>>>> start the vacuum, but I’m not able to access the menu system or change 
>>>>> the power level of the suction.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Does anybody else use the Shark robot vacuum and can confirm this?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’m currently in a battle with their support team, but I’m struggling 
>>>>> with even being able to get them to understand the basic principle of 
>>>>> accessibility.
>>>>> 
>>>>> They are headquartered in the States, so I expect they have to be 
>>>>> compliant with Section 508, but, as I am a Canadian, I’m not sure I can 
>>>>> wield that power. ;)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thx,
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>>>> --- 
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/EF3C7C59-B48A-4F59-BF9D-C388998A7DA0%40berwick.name.
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>> 
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>> 
>>>> The

Re: Shark Clean iOS App

[Mike Arrigo]

I would say the best robots are from Roborock or Ecovacs, I would not suggest a 
Roomba, they are somewhat behind the times compared to the other two brands I 
mentioned.

> On Aug 26, 2022, at 2:33 PM, Jeff Berwick  wrote:
> 
> Happy to discuss.  I’m currently researching the best robot vacuums and have 
> found that the iRobot Roomba are currently on sale. 
> 
> May make the switch.
> 
> Anybody have any experience with the Roomba app?
> 
> Thx,
> Jeff
> 
> 
>> On Aug 26, 2022, at 10:04 AM, Shameless FanGirl  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi there,
>> 
>> I also have a Shark robot, and can confirm exactly what you describe here. 
>> App is a hot mess right now. Shall we try networking on this issue? 
>> 
>> Angie
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 26, 2022, at 5:50 AM, Jeff Berwick  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I have a Shark robot vacuum which, until the latest version of the iOS app, 
>>> I have been able to work independently.  I do have some grumbles about the 
>>> product—I have to set the power level every single time, but that is 
>>> something I have taken up with their customer support team.
>>> 
>>> The latest version of the app is completely inaccessible.  I am able to 
>>> start the vacuum, but I’m not able to access the menu system or change the 
>>> power level of the suction.
>>> 
>>> Does anybody else use the Shark robot vacuum and can confirm this?
>>> 
>>> I’m currently in a battle with their support team, but I’m struggling with 
>>> even being able to get them to understand the basic principle of 
>>> accessibility.
>>> 
>>> They are headquartered in the States, so I expect they have to be compliant 
>>> with Section 508, but, as I am a Canadian, I’m not sure I can wield that 
>>> power. ;)
>>> 
>>> Thx,
>>> Jeff
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/EF3C7C59-B48A-4F59-BF9D-C388998A7DA0%40berwick.name.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/028CA7D6-B7E7-4C09-870D-8CEE230CC3B8%40gmail.com.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5B366612-B026-491A-AADC-56090BEABB62%40berwick.name.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the 

Re: New triple tap gesture for voiceover on iOS

[Mike Arrigo]

Doing a one finger tripple tap does a long press on the item and I guess for 
some items it makes a difference.

> On Jun 27, 2022, at 5:43 PM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> A while back, perhaps within the year, I have noticed that at times double 
> tapping a button does it activate the button. This happens primarily on video 
> play buttons. Then somewhere along the line I saw that there was a triple tap 
> gesture for iOS. So, I’ve tried recently doing a triple tap on the play 
> buttons and Wala, that’s what it takes to get the play button to activate the 
> video. When did this happen? I feel like I’ve been asleep at the wheel and 
> they snuck in a new gesture on me. Has this something to do with  video 
> players, that seems to be where I have noticed this particularly. 
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/858FB115-6A1E-403A-8619-65A656FFB8D1%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/E74697DF-38C3-4D38-B21F-A3DA92C0C38D%40charter.net.

Re: slack and voiceover?

[Mike Arrigo]

Yes, I use it every day at work, works very well, you can arrow up and down 
through the messages in a channel and the F6 key will move you to the different 
parts of the screen such as the side bar and channel list.

> On Jun 25, 2022, at 9:35 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> Anyone using slack with voiceover?
> Just curious,
> Karen
> 
> 

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/A0C57AEB-8C8A-46F9-A502-83F0251C9514%40charter.net.

Re: Mouse cursor follows voiceover cursor or ignores voiceover cursor

[Mike Arrigo]

In many cases it doesn't matter but on certain web sites it makes a difference. 
On some web sites, a subcategory of links will only appear when the mouse is 
moved over the main link. For example, you might have a link that says 
"products," and then a sublist of products links would appear, but only if the 
mouse is sitting on the products link. Really this is bad web design for 
accessibility since it makes things difficult for those who don't use a mouse, 
but it does happen. Setting the mouse to follow the voiceover cursor will 
ensure that you see these links.

> On Mar 13, 2022, at 8:47 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The subject explains my dilemma.  Is it better to set mouse cursorr to ignore 
> voiceover cursor or follow it?  What is your experience.  I’d appreciate your 
> comments.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/733BA7F4-3EB8-41E5-9878-8041831F6971%40me.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/E88D6856-E58F-4060-A40D-E741B6C1260E%40charter.net.

Re: Request for help in deciding between Intel based and and one MacBook Pro

[Mike Arrigo]

I have never used an M1 mac but I know Apple is phasing out the Intel 
processors so if they got an Intel mac they would be buying in to a technology 
that Apple is phasing out.

> On Jan 20, 2022, at 12:15 PM, muhammad babar Shahzad  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello friends,
> As per the subject line, I request you to kindly let me know whether my 
> friend who is going to transition from Windows to Mac should  acquire an 
> Intel based machine or the M1? They need to use it for university studies. I 
> would highly appreciate if anyone could kindly share their experience of 
> transitioning from Windows to Mac for university studies.
> Thank you very much in advance.
> Regards, Mohammed Babar Shahzad.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/233361AB-A027-42EE-8875-25A2A1E3EBB1%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/6CD7B487-B8E6-40E1-BFE9-2E29069ED5E1%40charter.net.

changing sim cards

[Mike Arrigo]

It can be done without sighted help, you will a sim eject tool. The sim card is 
very small so be careful not to drop it. They are about the size of a micro SD 
card.

> On Dec 18, 2021, at 5:11 PM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/6779D34B-F2E6-42E9-9E08-F97070F6AD6C%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/3F9F614D-EA04-403D-BA74-63879347BE58%40charter.net.

Re: Major problem with Monterey installer if you use vo.

[Mike Arrigo]

I had the same issue with the Big Sur install as well. As you said, there is no 
way around it, I have to keep a mouse around for that purpose. Once you get to 
the install screen you can disconnect it but yes, you will need to connect a 
mouse or track pad to continue.

> On Oct 28, 2021, at 9:38 PM, matthew dyer  
> wrote:
> 
> Evening Mac users.  I have a Mac mini 2018 and just created a USB installer 
> and was able to boot from it.  However, I have found a major bug that I would 
> consider  a show stopper if uou want to do a clean install.  If you do not 
> have a mouse or trackpad, There is a window that comes up which has a mouse 
> image and a trackpad image that seems to be rotating..  No amount of vo shift 
> space or any other keystroke will make it go away.  Has anyone else ran into 
> thisI  intend to report this to apple accessibility, but wanted to see if 
> anyone else had this problem and found a work around.  I think I have an old 
> track pad around somewhere, but it needs batteries as this is an older one 
> from an older iMac which I no longer have.  
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/BB15D1E9-104C-4CBF-A8BF-577673FE793B%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/57B5256C-A1F0-450A-A454-A63BAD913A5B%40charter.net.

Re: Voiceover reading pages in pdf documents twice

[Mike Arrigo]

Yes, I experience the same thing. The best way I have found to get around this 
is to open the PDF file in preview, press command+a to select all of the text, 
then press command+c to copy it. Then I paste it in to text edit and read it 
from there.

> On Sep 29, 2021, at 3:54 PM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Has anyone noticed a very odd behaviour of Voiceover when reading pdf 
> documents either in Preview or when Safari opens them on the web?  Voiceover 
> reads each page of a pdf document twice.  This is very annoying and totally 
> unnecessary.  Could you confirm?
> 
> Andrew
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/D27FB840-3E7C-424A-A37F-BCC9C2DA03F4%40me.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/239208C0-60BE-4A3F-85F1-24F64BDEF296%40charter.net.

Re: Safari busy again on big sur 11.6

[Mike Arrigo]

I'm having the same issue but it really started for me when upgrading to safari 
15, I find myself using Chrome and Firefox more and more now.

> On Sep 26, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Jürgen Fleger  wrote:
> 
> Hi Andrew,
> I haven’t updated yet but heard from a number of blind users of this issue. 
> So it seems to be an issue of this update.
> All the best
> Jürgen
> 
> 
>> Am 26.09.2021 um 18:11 schrieb 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>> :
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Since upgrading to the most recent 11.6 on my macbook pro late 2014, Safari 
>> has become sluggish.  I’ve cleared the cashes, I keep my mac free from junk. 
>>  Has anyone else experienced this, and is there anything else I can do?  Or 
>> is it a matter of my mac being old?  It has 16 GB RAM, 512 hard drive and is 
>> the fastest I could buy at that time.
>> 
>> Andrew
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/107F090B-7468-48C0-AF11-107E39CAE07E%40me.com.
>> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/DE4FB38E-CFD9-4908-A4EB-19799224B4DB%40fleger.net.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/FC68C9D9-BDD6-406D-B67C-A24A5BD0E2F4%40charter.net.

Re: the Brave Browser

[Mike Arrigo]

All three of these browsers use the same browser engine, so the way things are 
read will be the same for all of them. While you could install all three of 
them, it's kind of redundant. I just have Chrome installed on my macs. The 
accessibility of firefox has really come along nicely as well.

> On Jul 5, 2021, at 5:39 AM, Greg Wocher  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> From the little bit of testing I have done with it, it is accessible on the 
> Mac. It works similarly to that of the edge and chrome browsers.
> 
> Greg Wocher
> 
> 
>> On Jul 4, 2021, at 10:58 PM, Lorie McCloud  wrote:
>> 
>> I read in top Tech Tidbits that the Brave Browser was coming out. it's 
>> supposed to be based on chrome but filter out ads. I might assume that since 
>> it was announced in that publication it would be accessible but it's 
>> probably better not to assume. has anybody tried it on their Mac and if so, 
>> how does it work?
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/4F7CF690-097C-4082-954A-A23BE2363096%40gmail.com.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/2311CFE1-6458-44F6-8E18-73622619F2D8%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/59BE09B8-D758-470F-A7BA-30C28BFE07A0%40charter.net.

Re: Instructions for Running Windows on M1 Machines

[Mike Arrigo]

Wonder if screen readers will work with this version of Windows.

> On May 7, 2021, at 9:11 AM,   
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> This article has step by step instructions for downloading Windows onto the 
> new M1 Macs.
> It requires an Arm based version of Windows, Parallels, and a Windows Insider 
> registration.
> https://9to5mac.com/2021/05/03/the-super-easy-guide-for-installing-windows-on-m1-macs-using-parallels-desktop-16-for-mac-video/
> I’ve decided that it is probably best for me not to put two operating systems 
> on the same machine.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/07b601d7434a%24fc6f4330%24f54dc990%24%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/F9AB4205-76F5-49B9-99A4-4AD4EAD1413F%40charter.net.

Re: Apple HomePod Discontinued: Apple to Focus on Smaller, HomePod Mini, USA Today

[Mike Arrigo]

That's one major disadvantage of the home pods, if you want to play anything 
other than something on Apple music, you have to use your phone to stream the 
content and at that point, the home pod is basically functioning as an external 
speaker for your phone. The Amazon echo devices and Google Home devices support 
several radio streaming services directly. Unless Apple makes more services 
available directly on the Home Pod, it will never compete with the Echo or 
Google home devices.

> On Mar 16, 2021, at 6:23 PM, matthew dyer  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am referring to being able to tell the HomePod to play it directly without 
> having to use your phone.  For example, on my android phone and probably.e on 
> my iPhone 8+ though I have not tested this I should be able to tell Sirri to 
> play a station on Sirius-xm.  I can tell my Samsung device to do this and 
> google speakers can do this after you set it up.  You can not do this on 
> apple speakers,  HTH.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 16, 2021, at 9:42 AM, kliph miller Sr  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Its been publicly announced that serious XM will be allowed to be your 
>> default music service in IOS14.5
>> 
>> Are you good at editing audio or want to learn how? Want to explore all the 
>> options on how to make your recordings for podcasts or other files sound 
>> good? Then audio editing101 is the group for you, join here
>> audio-editing101+subscr...@groups.io
>> Let’s master editing audio together!
>> 
>>> On Mar 15, 2021, at 5:28 PM, matthew dyer 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi, 
>>> 
>>> My only complante with apple is þ they don't have access to Sirius XM as 
>>> least not through the speaker.  I have considered a google home for that or 
>>> an amazon speaker.
>>> 
>>> Matthew
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
>>> Behalf Of Mary Otten
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2021 11:38 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Apple HomePod Discontinued: Apple to Focus on Smaller, HomePod 
>>> Mini, USA Today
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the link you sent in another message, I will be responding. My 
>>> problem is that a lot of the stations I want our foreign language. And the 
>>> Amazon devices and the Google devices will play them. Siri won’t. Why not? 
>>> And even HomePod aside, Siri just sends me to the web far too often. Even 
>>> on the watch. That’s ridiculous. Apple bought the leading AI of its time 
>>> and totally lost it. I don’t want apple digging into my privacy matters. So 
>>> I totally agree with you there. But I don’t think you have to know all 
>>> about me in order to play a given radio station in a foreign country that 
>>> exists on a service with which Apple supposedly has connections. It’s just 
>>> screwed up. This is one area where Apple totally lost it. And it’s so sad. 
>>> The homePod‘s are really nice speakers in my opinion.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Mar 14, 2021, at 8:11 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Well, far be it from me to defend Siri, but she's gotten a lot better, at 
 least with regard to playing radio stations. I can now get her to play 
 every station I want to hear, either from public radio, Tune-In, or 
 iHeart.  You might give that another try.
 
 I don't get why some music just won't play, and that's still an issue. I 
 mean, it would make sense if they had foreign language titles, but some of 
 the albums that give the most trouble don't. I've just solved that by 
 creating  playlist with the album, and giving it a different name. But 
 you're right, that shouldn't be necessary.
 
 All this said, I don't see how focusing on the Mini is going to fix those 
 issues. The albums that won't play on my HomePod, also won't play on the 
 mini.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
 
> On Mar 14, 2021, at 10:03 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna,
> I agree with you with regard to privacy issues. But I honestly don’t 
> think Apple has done what they could or should have done with Siri and 
> never mind privacy issues. That is, privacy issues shouldn’t matter in 
> these cases. Why, for instance, can’t you get radio stations around the 
> world to play reliably? Why doesn’t music always play reliably? Why can’t 
> you switch among music providers? Apple made a really nice speaker, 
> better than Google certainly, and I don’t have the Amazon studio, so I 
> can’t compare. I mean really. HomePod aside, Siri still get an awful lot 
> of stuff wrong, and still sends you to the web Waymore than it should. 
> Didn’t Apple say that was one of their big focuses for this year? Well, 
> they blew it. So now, I have my nice HomePods which may or may not ever 
> see any more upgrades. The performance is not reliable. It’s not the 
> speaker. It’s the infrastructure. Apple screwed up.
> 
> 

Re: Apple HomePod Discontinued: Apple to Focus on Smaller, HomePod Mini, USA Today

[Mike Arrigo]

I'm not sure how much the Home Pod mini sells for, I've heard the larger home 
pod sounds really good, but it was more expensive than the echo or google home 
series, and it sounds like you are confirming what the reviews have said, the 
capabilities are lacking compared to the Echo and google home devices.

> On Mar 14, 2021, at 9:05 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I couldn’t agree more, Donna. I was really disappointed. The problem with the 
> homePod isn’t the speaker, it’s Apple and that god awful Siri. They really 
> have not done what they should be doing with that. And there’s no way I’m 
> interested in any HomePod mini. Why? I bought a pair of HomePods for the 
> sound, and it’s very good. For 400 bucks, it sounds almost as good as 
> speakers I paid more for in the past. But now it’s discontinued, so I guess 
> maybe it won’t get more updates? What a rip! Apple, you really screwed it up!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 14, 2021, at 5:55 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Wow, that’s too bad. The sound on the HomePod is much better than the mini.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 14, 2021, at 7:52 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>> 
>>> Well, I knew this day would come.  I did not think it would happen so soon
>>> but .
>>> 
>>> Since purchasing my original HomePod, all I have asked Apple to do was to
>>> add a device-specific equalizer so as to allow listeners to customize the
>>> sounds balance.  This feature has long since been available on the Amazon
>>> Echo devices.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> Apple HomePod Discontinued: Apple to Focus on Smaller, HomePod Mini, USA
>>> Today
>>> 
>>> Apple to discontinue original HomePod and says it will focus efforts on
>>> HomePod mini
>>> 
>>> Apple will discontinue its original HomePod four years after first releasing
>>> the smart speaker.
>>> 
>>> The Cupertino, California-based tech giant says it will instead focus on its
>>> new and smaller HomePod mini, which went on sale in November for $99.
>>> "We are discontinuing the original HomePod, it will continue to be available
>>> while supplies last through the Apple Online Store, Apple Retail Stores and
>>> Apple Authorized Resellers," Apple said in a statement, reported by
>>> TechCrunch. "We are focusing our efforts on HomePod mini."
>>> 
>>> Apple didn't immediately respond Saturday to USA TODAY's request for
>>> comment. As of Saturday, the HomePod was selling for $299 on Apple's website
>>> with the mini available for $99.
>>> 
>>> Apple first entered the smart speaker market in 2018 with the original
>>> HomePod, first priced at $349, but dogged by complaints that the speaker did
>>> little more than just play music. It was dwarfed by sales of Amazon's Echo,
>>> the No. 1 best-selling smart speaker, and what was originally called the
>>> Google Home.
>>> 
>>> The new HomePod mini can access apps on the iPhone using Siri, such as
>>> calendar, messages, or Music. The speaker also features an intercom and the
>>> ability to send messages from HomePod Mini to any Apple device, even
>>> AirPods.
>>> 
>>> The smart speaker incorporates computational audio, which applies tuning
>>> models to bolster its sound. When announcing the new speaker in November,
>>> Apple said it would add a feature recognizing when your iPhone is near so
>>> music can easily transfer from playing on iPhone to HomePod mini and trigger
>>> visual and haptic responses on the phone.
>>> 
>>> In January, Apple posted record revenue of $111.4 billion during its 2021
>>> fiscal first quarter, a 21% increase from the same period a year ago.
>>> 
>>> The company reported selling more iPhones and iPads, and hit a new revenue
>>> high from its services, such as Apple TV+, from October through December
>>> 2020, as consumers got new devices and used them more during the coronavirus
>>> pandemic. 
>>> 
>>> Contributing: Mike Snider, Brett Molina and Jefferson Graham, USA TODAY
>>> 
>>> Original Article at:
>>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2021/03/13/homepod-discontinued-app
>>> le-focusing-efforts-homepod-mini/468041/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> 

Re: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

[Mike Arrigo]

No matter what I do, I cannot open the context menu for any item on the dock. 
It just goes back to the finder, unless voiceover is reporting it wrong, I 
guess I could try control clicking with the trackpad on my laptop but for the 
mac minis, nothing works.

> On Mar 2, 2021, at 4:11 PM, Cara Quinn  wrote:
> 
> I may not be understanding this issue but I’ve just opened a context menu on 
> a dock item (using control click) and then used enter to access an option.
> 
> Enter seems to consistently work once a context menu is open. Are others not 
> seeing this?
> 
> My apologies if I have misunderstood or have missed the point.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Cara
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 2, 2021, at 7:26 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>> 
>> From my experience, I have had no problem opening the shortcut menu for a 
>> Dock item using VO + Shift +M..  The real problem is accessing a selection 
>> from a shortcut menu.
>> In the beginning of this issue, routing the mouse pointer to the desired 
>> menu item, and then performing a mouse click on the trackpad worked in most 
>> situations.  However, since the 11.2 update, this work-around no longer 
>> performs as it once did in the prior 11.1 update.  There has been no change 
>> with the 11.2.2 update as well.
>> This situation is both disappointing and unacceptable.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 2, 2021, at 02:36, Jürgen Fleger  wrote:
>> 
>> I only found one real solution to this issue: 
>> Navigate to an element in the Dock.
>> Switch off Trackpad Commander.
>> Route mouse pointer to VO by pressing VO + CMD + F5. Pressing FN 
>> additionally probably would be necessary in most cases.
>> Hold down CTRL and press down Trackpad with one finger. Means perform a real 
>> right click.
>> If I do so the known context menu opens  reliably on my Mac. All other 
>> suggestions didn’t work more than ones.
>> All the best
>> Jürgen
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 02.03.2021 um 06:39 schrieb Brad Snyder :
>>> 
>>> I don’t find that using the Actions Menu helps get around any of the Big 
>>> Sur Dock access issues.
>>> Maybe I’m missing something here.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mar 1, 2021, at 18:51, John Panarese  wrote:
>>> 
>>>Which can be done via the Action Menu with ease.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Take Care
>>> 
>>> John D. Panarese
>>> Director
>>> Mac for the Blind
>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>> 
>>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>>> 
>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>> 
>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 1, 2021, at 7:50 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Adding items to the Dock never has been a problem in Big Sur.  The problem 
>>>> is accessing and working with the shortcut menu for Dock items in Big Sur.
>>>> 
>>>> - Brad -
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 1, 2021, at 18:36, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I wonder if this person even tried a mac. Yes, there was an issue with 
>>>> disk utility in the big sur recovery and I agree that this should have 
>>>> never been released, but it is fixed now. I'm wondering what tasks the 
>>>> author of this article wants to perform but is unable to do. There is 
>>>> still an issue with adding and removing items from the dock using the 
>>>> keyboard but that's not voiceover related directly.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 1, 2021, at 6:48 AM, kliph miller Sr  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It’s clear to me about this article 2 things.
>>>>>> 1. This is a windows user
>>>>>> 2. They haven’t done there homework.
>>>>>> Note: I am not the author of this article!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Introduction
>>>>>>> The modern era has brought many advantages for those who are blind or 
>>>>>>> visually impaired. One of the most important tools a blind user uses 
>>>>>>> with modern computing devices is a screen reader. Traditionally, screen 
>>>>>>> readers have been very expensive third-party programs that were very 
>>>>>>> difficult to obtain depending on one’s fin

Re: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

[Mike Arrigo]

The shortcut menu does not work, whether you press the up arrow to open the 
menu which used to work, or you do vo+shift+m on a dock item, or even right 
click the mouse on an item, it doesn't work, at least not on any of my macs.

> On Mar 1, 2021, at 6:51 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>Which can be done via the Action Menu with ease.
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 1, 2021, at 7:50 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>> 
>> Adding items to the Dock never has been a problem in Big Sur.  The problem 
>> is accessing and working with the shortcut menu for Dock items in Big Sur.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 1, 2021, at 18:36, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>> I wonder if this person even tried a mac. Yes, there was an issue with disk 
>> utility in the big sur recovery and I agree that this should have never been 
>> released, but it is fixed now. I'm wondering what tasks the author of this 
>> article wants to perform but is unable to do. There is still an issue with 
>> adding and removing items from the dock using the keyboard but that's not 
>> voiceover related directly.
>> 
>>> On Mar 1, 2021, at 6:48 AM, kliph miller Sr  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> It’s clear to me about this article 2 things.
>>>> 1. This is a windows user
>>>> 2. They haven’t done there homework.
>>>> Note: I am not the author of this article!
>>>> 
>>>>> Introduction
>>>>> The modern era has brought many advantages for those who are blind or 
>>>>> visually impaired. One of the most important tools a blind user uses with 
>>>>> modern computing devices is a screen reader. Traditionally, screen 
>>>>> readers have been very expensive third-party programs that were very 
>>>>> difficult to obtain depending on one’s financial status. However, several 
>>>>> free yet capable screen readers have emerged in the last 20 years. The 
>>>>> two that we will be discussing are Apple’s VoiceOver for macOS and the 
>>>>> Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for Windows. Both are powerful screen 
>>>>> readers in their own right, but they have their strengths and weaknesses 
>>>>> which I will discuss in more detail. Hopefully by the end of this 
>>>>> article, you will have a better understanding of each product and its 
>>>>> individual strengths/weaknesses.
>>>>> 
>>>>> NVDA
>>>>> Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for short is a free and open source 
>>>>> screen reader for the Microsoft Windows operating system. The 
>>>>> organization behind the project is an Australian company called NV Access 
>>>>> (www.nvaccess.org). It has been around since 2006 and primarily competes 
>>>>> with the JAWS for Windows screen reader produced by Freedom Scientific or 
>>>>> Vispero as they are now known by. It offers many of the same features 
>>>>> that JAWS offers and should be suitable for 99% of screen reader users. 
>>>>> The philosophy behind NVDA is extremely compelling. It is offered free of 
>>>>> charge to anyone in the world, meaning there is no longer a financial 
>>>>> barrier for blind people to work, learn, or do anything else on a 
>>>>> computer. NV Access does rely on donations, either from individuals or 
>>>>> grants from large companies, so if you can donate, it is very much worth 
>>>>> it to help this amazing project continue long into the future. The 
>>>>> obvious benefit is that a blind person can compete on a level playing 
>>>>> field with sighted peers at no more cost than anyone else. Updates to 
>>>>> NVDA are also free, and NV Access releases 3-4 updates per year that fix 
>>>>> bugs and add new features.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Since NVDA is open source, anyone is free to review the source code and 
>>>>> propose changes. While anyone can propose a change and submit code, it’s 
>>>>> still reviewed and approved by NV Access before it is included in 
>>>>> anything anyone can download. This ensures the security of the software 
>>>>> 

Re: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

[Mike Arrigo]

I wonder if this person even tried a mac. Yes, there was an issue with disk 
utility in the big sur recovery and I agree that this should have never been 
released, but it is fixed now. I'm wondering what tasks the author of this 
article wants to perform but is unable to do. There is still an issue with 
adding and removing items from the dock using the keyboard but that's not 
voiceover related directly.

> On Mar 1, 2021, at 6:48 AM, kliph miller Sr  wrote:
> 
>>> It’s clear to me about this article 2 things.
>> 1. This is a windows user
>> 2. They haven’t done there homework.
>> Note: I am not the author of this article!
>> 
>>> Introduction
>>> The modern era has brought many advantages for those who are blind or 
>>> visually impaired. One of the most important tools a blind user uses with 
>>> modern computing devices is a screen reader. Traditionally, screen readers 
>>> have been very expensive third-party programs that were very difficult to 
>>> obtain depending on one’s financial status. However, several free yet 
>>> capable screen readers have emerged in the last 20 years. The two that we 
>>> will be discussing are Apple’s VoiceOver for macOS and the Nonvisual 
>>> Desktop Access or NVDA for Windows. Both are powerful screen readers in 
>>> their own right, but they have their strengths and weaknesses which I will 
>>> discuss in more detail. Hopefully by the end of this article, you will have 
>>> a better understanding of each product and its individual 
>>> strengths/weaknesses.
>>> 
>>> NVDA
>>> Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for short is a free and open source screen 
>>> reader for the Microsoft Windows operating system. The organization behind 
>>> the project is an Australian company called NV Access (www.nvaccess.org). 
>>> It has been around since 2006 and primarily competes with the JAWS for 
>>> Windows screen reader produced by Freedom Scientific or Vispero as they are 
>>> now known by. It offers many of the same features that JAWS offers and 
>>> should be suitable for 99% of screen reader users. The philosophy behind 
>>> NVDA is extremely compelling. It is offered free of charge to anyone in the 
>>> world, meaning there is no longer a financial barrier for blind people to 
>>> work, learn, or do anything else on a computer. NV Access does rely on 
>>> donations, either from individuals or grants from large companies, so if 
>>> you can donate, it is very much worth it to help this amazing project 
>>> continue long into the future. The obvious benefit is that a blind person 
>>> can compete on a level playing field with sighted peers at no more cost 
>>> than anyone else. Updates to NVDA are also free, and NV Access releases 3-4 
>>> updates per year that fix bugs and add new features.
>>> 
>>> Since NVDA is open source, anyone is free to review the source code and 
>>> propose changes. While anyone can propose a change and submit code, it’s 
>>> still reviewed and approved by NV Access before it is included in anything 
>>> anyone can download. This ensures the security of the software from 
>>> unauthorised changes and means that the final product available from 
>>> https://www.nvaccess.org/ is just as secure and well vetted as the closed 
>>> source from another company. Thousands of people from all over the world 
>>> constantly contribute to the project which benefits everyone in the end. 
>>> NVDA is a screen reader made for the blind by the blind. NV Access is 
>>> overseen by a board of directors (of whom at least 33% must be blind or 
>>> vision impaired, according to their constitution.
>>> 
>>> VoiceOver
>>> VoiceOver is Apple’s built-in and the only screen reader for the Mac. It 
>>> has been around since 2005, although the last significant update was in 
>>> 2011 with Mac OS X Lion. VoiceOver works well with Apple’s built-in apps 
>>> and used to be very reliable. Since it is built into the system, anyone can 
>>> walk up to a Mac running a modern version of macOS and get it talking by 
>>> pressing Command+F5. Apple should be commended for building a very capable 
>>> screen reader into the system and showing the rest of the world that it is 
>>> possible to build very robust accessibility features into mainstream 
>>> products.
>>> 
>>> As previously mentioned, however, VoiceOver is not as reliable as it could 
>>> or should be. Apple has not made significant changes in nearly a decade, 
>>> and bugs are rarely if ever fixed. Issues have piled up over the years and 
>>> the experience, while still good, is far from satisfactory depending on the 
>>> tasks you wish to do. The latest trend appears to be introducing bugs that 
>>> make certain things unusable. For example, there is a bug in macOS Big Sur 
>>> where VoiceOver crashes when opening the Disk Utility application in macOS 
>>> Recovery mode. This is absolutely unacceptable and would be fixed promptly 
>>> if it was impacting sighted users, yet someone somewhere decided it was 
>>> okay to release 

Re: Nasty bug with voice-over and disk utility in recovery finally solved in latest beta update

[Mike Arrigo]

Glad that is fixed, when I installed big sur on my macs, I had to boot from a 
catalina recovery to erase my hard drive first, I'm surprised a bug that major 
made it in to production.

> On Jan 21, 2021, at 6:14 PM, Michael Marshall  
> wrote:
> 
> hey all,
> Very happy to report that in the latest beta of big Sur the very nasty bug 
> which would make voice-over crash whilst in the disk utility in recovery has 
> been resolved.
> I can't tell you what a relief this is.
> 
> Michael
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5049521F-6219-46D7-A78D-D6847FF3AB40%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/EC4A5444-39B6-4F8F-AED7-CCD8BB690378%40charter.net.

Re: Big Sur 11.1 vs Catalina 10.15.7?

[Mike Arrigo]

Safari works fine, I don't use terminal or the other applications you 
mentioned. The messages app is quite a bit different, it's usable but takes 
some getting used to. At this point, adding and removing items from the dock is 
not possible using the keyboard, I think Apple has confirmed that this is a 
known issue. It's really up to you, there's certainly nothing wrong with 
waiting for a while for Apple to make things better.

> On Jan 2, 2021, at 5:55 AM, Muhammad Fayed  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Based on your experiences, I want to know whether it is a good time to 
> upgrade to Big Sur or not. I want to know about issues in general interaction 
> with the OS and specifically Safari, Terminal, Keynote, Pages and Numbers.
> 
> Thank you so much,
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mohamed E. Fayed 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/7FBFBA68-4A06-4D65-A1A4-8AD67F746790%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/827C5B67-8BA5-4F54-9BD1-688E402ABE2E%40charter.net.

Re: an update on my Big Sur experience

[Mike Arrigo]

Yes, opening an app from the dock works fine, the issue is opening the 
context menu for a dock item in order to add or remove it from the 
dock, that currently does not work.

Original message:
Things may work differently on the Intel Macs as opposed to the new M1 
Macs, but Mike I am still able to open an app from the dock with 
VO+spacebar. I am unable to access the menu from the dock to get to the 
open command.



The VO command does open the app, however.


I agree that there are some serious bug issues, but I do believe we 
have to try and move forward and just keep pressure on Apple to fix the 
problems.



Larry W. Honaker



kc8...@icloud.com



Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
(Psalm 119:105 KJV)




On Dec 23, 2020, at 10:21 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:


So, after playing with the new operating system a bit more, I'm going 
to stick with it rather than going back to Catalina although I still 
think that Apple has taken several steps backward with this new OS. I 
figure there's no point going back to an old operating system even if 
it's a bit easier for some things.
I do hope Apple fixes the bug with using the dock, but I have an 
acceptable work around for that. I prefer not to open the applications 
folder every time I want to open an app which is what I used the dock 
for. Since this is currently not possible, I have made aliases for the 
applications I use the most and put them on my desktop.
Regarding the messages application, I think I have found what I would 
consider to be a major voiceover bug and it's one reason I was having 
so much trouble with the app. Voiceover has a setting that determines 
how groups are handled, I usually use the bookend groups option since 
this eliminates the need to interact with items as much. This setting 
does not currently work with the messages app. Basically the new 
messages app has two sections, the conversations list and to the right 
of that is the area where the selected conversation is displayed. If 
you use one of the other voiceover group settings besides standard, 
once you move in to one of these areas, voiceover will get stuck there 
and you cannot get out of this section and go to the other one. Since I 
usually use the bookend groups setting, I created an activity for the 
messages app that switches to the standard setting instead. Unlike the 
messages app in Catalina, you can no longer use just the arrow keys to 
select a conversation, you must interact with the conversations list 
and use voiceover to select the conversation you want. Also, when 
opening the context menu for a conversation, you must use the voiceover 
up and down commands to move through the menu, using the regular arrow 
keys will not work.
I've also found an odd issue with the notification center, in previous 
operating systems, when an application requested to use the 
notification center, the prompt would appear and there were buttons to 
allow or deny the request. With Big Sur, either those buttons do not 
appear or Voiceover does not see them. You have to press 
VO+command+space to open the actions menu to respond to the notification.
I really hope Apple fixes some of these issues, I would consider some 
of them to be major.



--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
at caraqu...@caraquinn.com



The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/3ab697a4.3364.4694.b277.4bcb483b4776%40samobile.net.



--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
at caraqu...@caraquinn.com



The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails fro

an update on my Big Sur experience

[Mike Arrigo]

So, after playing with the new operating system a bit more, I'm going 
to stick with it rather than going back to Catalina although I still 
think that Apple has taken several steps backward with this new OS. I 
figure there's no point going back to an old operating system even if 
it's a bit easier for some things.
I do hope Apple fixes the bug with using the dock, but I have an 
acceptable work around for that. I prefer not to open the applications 
folder every time I want to open an app which is what I used the dock 
for. Since this is currently not possible, I have made aliases for the 
applications I use the most and put them on my desktop.
Regarding the messages application, I think I have found what I would 
consider to be a major voiceover bug and it's one reason I was having 
so much trouble with the app. Voiceover has a setting that determines 
how groups are handled, I usually use the bookend groups option since 
this eliminates the need to interact with items as much. This setting 
does not currently work with the messages app. Basically the new 
messages app has two sections, the conversations list and to the right 
of that is the area where the selected conversation is displayed. If 
you use one of the other voiceover group settings besides standard, 
once you move in to one of these areas, voiceover will get stuck there 
and you cannot get out of this section and go to the other one. Since I 
usually use the bookend groups setting, I created an activity for the 
messages app that switches to the standard setting instead. Unlike the 
messages app in Catalina, you can no longer use just the arrow keys to 
select a conversation, you must interact with the conversations list 
and use voiceover to select the conversation you want. Also, when 
opening the context menu for a conversation, you must use the voiceover 
up and down commands to move through the menu, using the regular arrow 
keys will not work.
I've also found an odd issue with the notification center, in previous 
operating systems, when an application requested to use the 
notification center, the prompt would appear and there were buttons to 
allow or deny the request. With Big Sur, either those buttons do not 
appear or Voiceover does not see them. You have to press 
VO+command+space to open the actions menu to respond to the notification.
I really hope Apple fixes some of these issues, I would consider some 
of them to be major.


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/3ab697a4.3364.4694.b277.4bcb483b4776%40samobile.net.

Re: Big Sur first impressions

[Mike Arrigo]

I wonder if you can use the arrow keys to navigate around in that screen. With 
the boot manager on Intel macs, you could use the left and right arrows to 
select a start up disk and then press enter.

> On Dec 21, 2020, at 12:10 PM, Steve Matzura  wrote:
> 
> No way can it be accessible because there's no operating system at that 
> point. The reason for this is probably because all the M1 stuff pre-supposes 
> you're using a Bluetooth keyboard. How the Bluetooth subsystem is working at 
> that stage of the boot process I haven't the first clue. Maybe there are no 
> additional key-presses involved once you hold that power button for those 
> five seconds. I suppose I could be brave and give it a try.
> 
> 
> On 12/21/2020 10:44 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>> I know with the M1 macs, there is a new way of selecting a start up disk, 
>> you hold the power button for a few seconds. With the Intel macs, you would 
>> hold the option key but apparently with the M1 macs you can do a bit more 
>> from the menu that appears if you hold the power button. Do you know if this 
>> menu is accessible?
>> Original message:
>>> You certainly said a mouthful about Messages. I've found workarounds,
>>> and the 11.1 update definitely improved things, but not enough to the
>>> point where I'd say it was as usable as it was on Catalina. The way
>>> message conversations are selected for posting new messages or even
>>> deleting the conversation requires more VoiceOver gestures/steps, too,
>>> not to exclude what you wrote which is also absolutely correct.
>> 
>> 
>>> I haven't tried the Dock stuff yet, but I'm sure it's exactly as you
>>> reported.
>> 
>> 
>>> One wonders, what were the accessibility testers thinking when it was
>>> pointed out to them during the beta cycle that these things were
>>> different enough such that retraining would be required? I totally had
>>> to retrain myself with Messages, for sure. Unfortunately, I can't go
>>> back to Catalina because I have the M1 Mac, and I took on the challenge
>>> of being an early adopter, so I await improvements which will surely
>>> come. There are a lot of core applications--core for my use anyway--that
>>> are not yet M1-ready, and I agreed to wait for these, but I do like my
>>> M1 Mini for all the core Apple stuff, except Messages,of course, and
>>> probably a few more as I continue to explore Big Sur.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 12/20/2020 7:25 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>>>> I decided to give Big Sur a try on one of my macs, and honestly, I'm 
>>>> thinking about going back to Catalina. Since I became a Mac user back in 
>>>> 2008, I think this is the first time that I've considered going back to a 
>>>> previous version of Mac OS, but for me at least, there are some major 
>>>> issues.
>>>> First, whenever I install a major upgrade of the operating system, I 
>>>> prefer to erase my drive and install from scratch. With the recovery for 
>>>> Big Sur 11.1 this is impossible, Voiceover completely crashes when trying 
>>>> to access the table of disks in disk utility. So, I had to boot a Catalina 
>>>> recovery to erase my drive. Once that was done I booted from the Big Sur 
>>>> install drive I made and the install completed fine.
>>>> I think there is a major issue with adding or removing items from the 
>>>> dock. Previously you could move to an item and then press the up arrow 
>>>> which would give you the menu for that item. In Big Sur, this works the 
>>>> first time although when you select the option to remove from dock or keep 
>>>> in dock, that action does not take place. After that, bringing up the 
>>>> context menu for a dock item is impossible, pressing up arrow, using 
>>>> vo+shift+m or right clicking the mouse on the item just returns you to the 
>>>> desktop.
>>>> The next issue is with the new messages app, while it's useable, the 
>>>> experience is cumbersome at best. Voiceover tends to get stuck and you 
>>>> can't navigate left or right, you have to either use the tab key or use 
>>>> Voiceover's go to beginning or go to end commands to try to get out of the 
>>>> area that Voiceover is stuck in. Also, when writing a message, the read 
>>>> current line command does not work. This is the first time I've really 
>>>> been disappointed with an operating system upgrade, as I said, more than 
>>>> likely I will be going back to Catalina, I may play with it for anoth

Re: Dock issue in Big Sur

[Mike Arrigo]

I have actually tried this, interesting that it does work on the M1 macs, I'm 
using an Intel based mac mini, I think this generation was introduced in 2014 
and they were sold until 2018. I'll try the voiceover menu, I set up numpad 
star to do a right click of the mouse and that does not work. Sounds like it 
mainly happens when using the dock with the keyboard.

> On Dec 21, 2020, at 12:08 PM, 'Larry Honaker' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Greetings All,
> 
> As several folks have reported, I have experienced the bug in Big Sur in 
> regards to invoking the menu on items in the dock. I am using a new M1 
> MacBookAir.
> 
> I have spent some time with Apple Support and they have provided a sort of 
> workaround for this issue. It certainly is  not as convenient as the original 
> VO+Shift+m; however, it works “most” of the time—and I emphasize , “most” as 
> the workaround does not always open the menu for me.
> 
> Anyway, here is the workaround and it is better than nothing until they get 
> the bug fixed.
> 
> 1. Go to the dock with VO+d
> 2. Navigate to the item you wish to work with
> 3. Press the key combination of VO+function+Command+5 
>  (VO says the name of the app you are focused on in the dock)
> 4. Press VO+h+H
> 5. Type r I (no space between the r and i)
> 6. VO will say right mouse click; press return
> This usually opens up the menu where you can access options and other choices 
> usually displayed thru the VO+Shift+m menu.
> 
> Again, not perfect but it has worked fairly reliably for me so far.
> 
> Hope this helps anyone else dealing with this issue.
> 
> Larry W. Honaker
> 
> kc8...@icloud.com
> 
> Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. 
> (Psalm 119:105 KJV)
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/73733ED2-0430-4626-909B-E1E78F2BB236%40icloud.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/A7A5B671-B56A-4048-B449-2EE86268C438%40charter.net.

Re: Big Sur first impressions

[Mike Arrigo]

I know with the M1 macs, there is a new way of selecting a start up 
disk, you hold the power button for a few seconds. With the Intel macs, 
you would hold the option key but apparently with the M1 macs you can 
do a bit more from the menu that appears if you hold the power button. 
Do you know if this menu is accessible?

Original message:

You certainly said a mouthful about Messages. I've found workarounds,
and the 11.1 update definitely improved things, but not enough to the
point where I'd say it was as usable as it was on Catalina. The way
message conversations are selected for posting new messages or even
deleting the conversation requires more VoiceOver gestures/steps, too,
not to exclude what you wrote which is also absolutely correct.




I haven't tried the Dock stuff yet, but I'm sure it's exactly as you
reported.




One wonders, what were the accessibility testers thinking when it was
pointed out to them during the beta cycle that these things were
different enough such that retraining would be required? I totally had
to retrain myself with Messages, for sure. Unfortunately, I can't go
back to Catalina because I have the M1 Mac, and I took on the challenge
of being an early adopter, so I await improvements which will surely
come. There are a lot of core applications--core for my use anyway--that
are not yet M1-ready, and I agreed to wait for these, but I do like my
M1 Mini for all the core Apple stuff, except Messages,of course, and
probably a few more as I continue to explore Big Sur.




On 12/20/2020 7:25 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
I decided to give Big Sur a try on one of my macs, and honestly, I'm 
thinking about going back to Catalina. Since I became a Mac user back 
in 2008, I think this is the first time that I've considered going back 
to a previous version of Mac OS, but for me at least, there are some 
major issues.
First, whenever I install a major upgrade of the operating system, I 
prefer to erase my drive and install from scratch. With the recovery 
for Big Sur 11.1 this is impossible, Voiceover completely crashes when 
trying to access the table of disks in disk utility. So, I had to boot 
a Catalina recovery to erase my drive. Once that was done I booted from 
the Big Sur install drive I made and the install completed fine.
I think there is a major issue with adding or removing items from the 
dock. Previously you could move to an item and then press the up arrow 
which would give you the menu for that item. In Big Sur, this works the 
first time although when you select the option to remove from dock or 
keep in dock, that action does not take place. After that, bringing up 
the context menu for a dock item is impossible, pressing up arrow, 
using vo+shift+m or right clicking the mouse on the item just returns 
you to the desktop.
The next issue is with the new messages app, while it's useable, the 
experience is cumbersome at best. Voiceover tends to get stuck and you 
can't navigate left or right, you have to either use the tab key or use 
Voiceover's go to beginning or go to end commands to try to get out of 
the area that Voiceover is stuck in. Also, when writing a message, the 
read current line command does not work. This is the first time I've 
really been disappointed with an operating system upgrade, as I said, 
more than likely I will be going back to Catalina, I may play with it 
for another couple days but if I can't make these things work better 
than that's what I'm going to do.




--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
at caraqu...@caraquinn.com



The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/09e1e5f7-33a4-08ef-8688-7b98e40fc45a%40noisynotes.com.


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http:

Big Sur first impressions

[Mike Arrigo]

I decided to give Big Sur a try on one of my macs, and honestly, I'm thinking 
about going back to Catalina. Since I became a Mac user back in 2008, I think 
this is the first time that I've considered going back to a previous version of 
Mac OS, but for me at least, there are some major issues.
First, whenever I install a major upgrade of the operating system, I prefer to 
erase my drive and install from scratch. With the recovery for Big Sur 11.1 
this is impossible, Voiceover completely crashes when trying to access the 
table of disks in disk utility. So, I had to boot a Catalina recovery to erase 
my drive. Once that was done I booted from the Big Sur install drive I made and 
the install completed fine.
I think there is a major issue with adding or removing items from the dock. 
Previously you could move to an item and then press the up arrow which would 
give you the menu for that item. In Big Sur, this works the first time although 
when you select the option to remove from dock or keep in dock, that action 
does not take place. After that, bringing up the context menu for a dock item 
is impossible, pressing up arrow, using vo+shift+m or right clicking the mouse 
on the item just returns you to the desktop.
The next issue is with the new messages app, while it's useable, the experience 
is cumbersome at best. Voiceover tends to get stuck and you can't navigate left 
or right, you have to either use the tab key or use Voiceover's go to beginning 
or go to end commands to try to get out of the area that Voiceover is stuck in. 
Also, when writing a message, the read current line command does not work. This 
is the first time I've really been disappointed with an operating system 
upgrade, as I said, more than likely I will be going back to Catalina, I may 
play with it for another couple days but if I can't make these things work 
better than that's what I'm going to do.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/E2CBE7C4-8671-49DF-A573-90ECF00F4B5A%40charter.net.

Re: Firefox updates.

[Mike Arrigo]

The voiceover support in Firefox is coming along nicely. There are still a few 
gaps with how it works but it's definitely useable. And certainly having 
another accessible browser on the mac is a good thing.

> On Dec 18, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> A couple folks have asked me about why use firefox. I was going to grab some 
> information I had received in a different channel about Firefox and VoiceOver 
> support, but have not had a chance. Perhaps over the weekend, that will be 
> possible.
> but in terms of Safari vs Firefox I believe that Firefox more closely follows 
> the updates to  web standards. There are a couple places where the 
> accessibility development community has had to say you can't use this 
> technique if you plan to support VoiceOver on Macintosh. Hopefully, with 
> Firefox we can get more sites that we can access. Also, you might want to 
> reserve your banking activities to a browser different from news and 
> entertainment. Perhaps on  Youtube you have an extension that allows you to 
> downloads movies but you did not pay for the extension, so it is probably 
> getting paid by looking at your browsing habits and sharing that with 
> advertisers. Better to have a Browser free of such stuff for your money.
> 
>   Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/B4B8B27B-18D1-47BE-8CEE-DD5A71690D1F%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/1388E129-90AC-415A-8E90-8C5431121182%40charter.net.

Re: major issue with Big Sur install

[Mike Arrigo]

I tried it on my mac mini and the same thing happens, attempting to access the 
list of drives in disk utility will cause voiceover to totally crash. I realize 
that a new release of an operating system may have some bugs but I would 
consider this a major bug, at this point, doing a clean install of Big Sur is 
not possible. I'm not sure if anyone from the applevis site is on this list but 
if so, you may want to add this to the Big Sur blog article.

> On Nov 21, 2020, at 2:06 PM, Michael Marshall  
> wrote:
> 
> Hey,
> Have sent a report to Apple about this,
> It is a major major bug.
> 
>> On 22 Nov 2020, at 4:30 am, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>> I went ahead and created a Big Sur install on a USB flash drive. After 
>> booting from it, I discovered a major issue with Voiceover. When installing 
>> a new major operating system, I prefer to erase my drive and install from 
>> scratch. Wehn trying to access the list of drives in disk utility, voiceover 
>> crashes making this task impossible at this point. Wondering if anyone else 
>> can reproduce this. I know there have been several other issues with using 
>> Voiceover in Big Sur recovery as well.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5A9AD31C-0978-4DE9-B95E-9AD7A81D2CD7%40charter.net.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/A276E10A-0FFC-4954-BD7F-BF15B6CCB18E%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/A5AA8639-31A9-466E-86B8-593292E71C25%40charter.net.

Re: major issue with Big Sur install

[Mike Arrigo]

This was with a 2018 macbook air. I followed the instructions in this article 
to create the install drive, that worked fine and I had no problem booting the 
mac with it.

https://www.macworld.com/article/3566910/how-to-create-a-bootable-macos-big-sur-installer-drive.html


> On Nov 21, 2020, at 12:39 PM, maurice Mines  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi, I have some questions, one how did you create the USB install? There are 
> several machines here that need the upgrade. Two I have not found the issues 
> that people are talking about on my machine. I'm wondering if it really comes 
> down to how current in the hardware? This is a 2020 MacBook Pro. So I'm 
> wondering if that really is the defining issue with installing, And or 
> upgrading to Mac OS Big Sur.
> 
> Sincerely Maurice Mines.
> 
>> On Nov 21, 2020, at 17:30, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>> I went ahead and created a Big Sur install on a USB flash drive. After 
>> booting from it, I discovered a major issue with Voiceover. When installing 
>> a new major operating system, I prefer to erase my drive and install from 
>> scratch. Wehn trying to access the list of drives in disk utility, voiceover 
>> crashes making this task impossible at this point. Wondering if anyone else 
>> can reproduce this. I know there have been several other issues with using 
>> Voiceover in Big Sur recovery as well.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5A9AD31C-0978-4DE9-B95E-9AD7A81D2CD7%40charter.net.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/2F46C7CC-65A6-4586-B5D4-69FDFAEB102E%40maurice-amines.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/4CA9F7E1-AA4D-4AFC-B8D0-9A35CB6FD40B%40charter.net.

Re: major issue with Big Sur install

[Mike Arrigo]

Not yet, it happened on my macbook air, I want to test it on one of my mac 
minis, you could probably test it by booting your mac in to recovery, I think 
that's the same thing that is used when creating an install on an external 
drive.

> On Nov 21, 2020, at 12:29 PM, matthew dyer  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Mike. 
> 
> I just did a start upgrade.  I can give this a look at some point, have you 
> contacted apple accessibility about this?  Thanks.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 21, 2020, at 12:30 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>> I went ahead and created a Big Sur install on a USB flash drive. After 
>> booting from it, I discovered a major issue with Voiceover. When installing 
>> a new major operating system, I prefer to erase my drive and install from 
>> scratch. Wehn trying to access the list of drives in disk utility, voiceover 
>> crashes making this task impossible at this point. Wondering if anyone else 
>> can reproduce this. I know there have been several other issues with using 
>> Voiceover in Big Sur recovery as well.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5A9AD31C-0978-4DE9-B95E-9AD7A81D2CD7%40charter.net.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/872A9697-4A00-46A5-A95A-FDDC30ACB9F1%40outlook.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/6BDF6AB0-A4FE-492A-A7A8-CB197A0AB469%40charter.net.

major issue with Big Sur install

[Mike Arrigo]

I went ahead and created a Big Sur install on a USB flash drive. After booting 
from it, I discovered a major issue with Voiceover. When installing a new major 
operating system, I prefer to erase my drive and install from scratch. Wehn 
trying to access the list of drives in disk utility, voiceover crashes making 
this task impossible at this point. Wondering if anyone else can reproduce 
this. I know there have been several other issues with using Voiceover in Big 
Sur recovery as well.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5A9AD31C-0978-4DE9-B95E-9AD7A81D2CD7%40charter.net.

Re: selecting noncontiguous text

[Mike Arrigo]

I don't think there is a way to do this. I would suggest selecting and copying 
the first block of text that you want, then paste it where it needs to go, then 
repeat the process with the next block of text.

> On Oct 25, 2020, at 10:51 PM, Christina  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Is it impossible to select noncontiguous text in Safari with Voice Over on my 
> Mac? I know how to do so in Finder, but I'm talking about text, and not 
> items. I know mouse users can hold down the command key and use the mouse, 
> but that is no help to me. ☺️ 
> 
> Thanks,
> Christina
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/2F87C021-9A81-42EB-B452-D6A4A2ECF1ED%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5647A312-3BF8-4499-AE0A-11C04F68D79C%40charter.net.

Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

[Mike Arrigo]

You can also use Microsoft Edge though it works very much like Chrome since 
it's the same code base.

> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:34 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>  It’s really nice to read that they have a plan in place and are seeing this 
> through. I really wanted an additional web browser beyond Safari that was not 
> Google Chrome.
> 
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:29 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  You bet. There is a lot in the blog, I skimmed it and will read more later.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Freedom of Speech Carries With
>> It Implicit Responsibility.
>> 
>> On 7/2/2020 10:19 AM, John Panarese wrote:
>>>  Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.
>>> Take Care
>>> John D. Panarese
>>> Director
>>> Mac for the Blind
>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  Here it is John.
>>>> 
>>>>  Forwarded Message 
>>>> Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>>>> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
>>>> From: Mike Arrigo 
>>>> Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>> 
>>>> This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover 
>>>> support in Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a 
>>>> great start.
>>>> https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>> 
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>> 
>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/097B8C62-2624-4846-A909-381A1C0B4161%40charter.net.
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>> 
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>> 
>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>> h

reposting the article on Firefox accessibility

[Mike Arrigo]

I will start a new thread with the article on Firefox accessibility, here it is.

https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/E9D70E2A-8DFA-426C-9505-D7EB0F8B2B04%40charter.net.

Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

[Mike Arrigo]

Absolutely, here is the article, I think it's really exciting.

https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/



> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:00 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>Ok. To get this back on track, could someone please repost the original 
> article on Firefox. This is of great interest to me. I have been messing with 
> FF on the Mac for a long time and accessibility is finally improving again 
> with VoiceOver. It’s actually to the point of being quite usable.
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:56 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  Cara Quinn, owner and Mark Taylor. moderator, their contact information is 
>> in the footer. And I doubt very much they support hatred.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Freedom of Speech Carries With
>> It Implicit Responsibility.
>> 
>> On 7/2/2020 9:41 AM, Robin wrote:
>>> "Who" are The Moderators of This MailingList?
>>> &
>>> Wonder if "They" support The Views  of TheMembers/Subscribers, which would 
>>> be The Reason, "Why" they are Allowing This Thread to Continue
>>> EvenThough
>>> it's OFF Topic/Subject
>>> I've tried to Steer this Thread Back ON Topic/Subject to No Avail
>>> At 04:05 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
 No that’s why I’m sorry Julie,
 
 I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
 I believe it is time
  To block the sender and trash their emails,
 
 Which I hate to say could cause me to miss emails of interest from other 
 members.it’s just so interesting to hear how these perfect people react, 
 must be difficult living in their close minded worlds.
 
 Simon F
 *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  
 *On Behalf Of *Julie Rattray
 *Sent:* Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
 *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 *Subject:* Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
 
 It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a moderator 
 stopping this I think that is the issue
 
 
   On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty >>>   > wrote:
 
   Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,
 
   That wasn’t my intention to make it happen.
   Regards,
 
 
   Simon F
 
 
   From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
   
   >>>   > On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
   Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
   To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
   
   Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on
   the mac
 
   I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been
   silent and allowed this crap to go on.
   Unlike a Groups.io  email list, I am not aware
   of a way to mute a topic.
   It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe
   from the list.
 
   - Brad -
 
   On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson >>>   > wrote:
 
   and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as
   opposed to this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and
   staying. I too am gone. I can get mac support anywhere. I am
   ashamed of what I’ve seen here, and to those who were supportive
   you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful of
   a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them
   are gone.
 
 
   On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries
   >>>   > wrote:
 
   Hi,
 
   Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive
   bigotry.  I’ve got much better things to do with my time and
   would prefer to surround myself with tolerant, respectful people. 
 Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this list.
 
   Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.
 
   Later…
 
 
 
   -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac
   Visionaries list.
 
   If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
   list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please
   contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on
   the list itself.
 
   Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach
   mark at: mk...@ucla.edu 

Re: Firefox on the Mac somewhat works now.

[Mike Arrigo]

At this time voiceover just says there are no menu options available 
for each category, I think that support will be coming later this year.

Original message:
SO DOES THE ROTOR BRING UP NOTHING IN ANY CATEGORY, OR NOTHING AT all 
or is every list in it blank? Also, is this the production or beta?



Best wishes,



Jonathan Cohn






On Jul 1, 2020, at 2:07 PM, Angus MacKinnon > wrote:


I have found Firefox to work better with VoiceOver (VO). However, VO + 
I brings up a small list of Items (about 37 items). VO + U has nothing 
but a blank window.



Angus MacKinnon, Personalism Student
Ghandi said, “ It is better to have a heart without words than words 
without a heart.”




--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark 
at: mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 




The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 


---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/11746665-0E5B-48F4-9E85-5D01294FCB45%40gmail.com 
.




--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark 
at: mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 




The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 


---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/EF6B3D00-A2B8-4728-9A04-D3F15C42D528%40gmail.com 
.




--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark 
at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com



The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 


---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/711732F1-FDE7-4171-BA51-35AAA555C1F4%40gmail.com 
.


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:

Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

[Mike Arrigo]

It's usable, but not as good as on Windows yet, but it's getting there. 
In the new Firefox 78 I was able to log in to my youtube account and 
play some videos, I also tried it with some other web sites, I would 
encourage everyone to give it a try and see what you think.

Original message:

Just Wonderin:
How does The Accessibility  compare to  its PC
i.e., Windows CounterPart & I'm Talkin'About  the
InternetBrowser, FireFox on The MAC?



Let's get This Thread Back-on-Track



Blessin'sAgain!
At 09:37 AM 6/30/2020, you wrote:

Nonsense like this has no place on this list! Stop it!



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 On Behalf Of alia robinson
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 10:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac



and things like this is why crap like that
signature shouldn’t be allowed. it brings out
the crazy conspiracy theroists. LMAO turn off alex jones.



On Jun 30, 2020, at 11:02 AM, CHUCK REICHEL
 wrote:



Amen Ray!



The whole thing including the "Communist Chinese
Biological weapon attack" is just the "Deep
State attempting another election year scam!
Guys look up   George Soros and how
he's  funding antifa & MS 13 to continually
foment the Violence which has nothing to do with Black lives!
May be you guys are not aware  of the fact 90%
of the news you're being fed is controlled by "6 corporations"
Thats called a monopoly!
Just another way to try and overthrow my USA Government.
It aint gonna happen guys!
Just watch!



--
The following information is important for all
members of the Mac Visionaries list.



If you have any questions or concerns about the
running of this list, or if you feel that a
member's post is inappropriate, please contact
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.



Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark
Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu
and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com



The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are
subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop
receiving emails from it, send an email to
macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/FE376125-C5CC-4115-8A27-41CA13423204%40gmail.com.



--
The following information is important for all
members of the Mac Visionaries list.



If you have any questions or concerns about the
running of this list, or if you feel that a
member's post is inappropriate, please contact
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.



Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark
Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu
and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com



The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are
subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop
receiving emails from it, send an email to
macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/01a301d64efc%24bf93fc00%243ebbf400%24%40gmail.com.



--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
at caraqu...@caraquinn.com



The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/7.0.1.0.2.20200630094751.04deb6b8%40comcast.net.


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:

article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

[Mike Arrigo]

This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover support in 
Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a great start.
https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/097B8C62-2624-4846-A909-381A1C0B4161%40charter.net.

Firefox on the Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

I went ahead and gave the newest firefox, version 77 a try. Yes, it is 
definitely better than previous versions, voiceover is quite responsive with 
it. Is it ready to be used as someone's primary browser, not yet, there are 
still some issues with the voiceover cursor getting stuck and you have to use 
the tab key to get out of the section you are stuck in. Is it worth trying and 
perhaps offering some feedback to Mozilla? Yes, absolutely, let's hope this 
continues to improve. If you have used safari and Chrome, you will notice that 
there are slight differences in how each browser presents information to 
voiceover, for example, chrome points out the start and end of lists in some 
places that safari doesn't. Microsoft Edge presents things exactly the same way 
that Chrome does since they use the same code. Firefox has its own unique way 
of presenting things, again, I would suggest giving it a try and offering some 
feedback, it would be awesome if Firefox's voiceover support could become as 
good as Safari, Chrome and Edge.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/3C00671D-1B55-4CD4-BBF2-ECE48168BCC1%40charter.net.

Re: Firefox on the Mac somewhat works now.

[Mike Arrigo]

Nice, please try some more sites when you can and keep us posted, it would be 
awesome if firefox became as accessible on the mac as it is on Windows.

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 1:37 PM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> I just downloaded Firefox 77 and Firefox 79 nightly on my system, and they 
> have indeed made significant strides in interacting with VoiceOver. I only 
> had a chance to review two or three sites. Sometimes, voiceOver would say 
> unknown button, but if I moved forward and back it could then read the label 
> for the button. I did not look at any advanced sites that use lots of 
> JavaScript and have to manage focus, but first impressions were that this is 
> something worth looking into. 
> 
>   Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/44F06525-DF97-4DA3-9545-EDC4F8E91274%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/54B30437-2B0C-43C0-A7BA-69F8B0F919EE%40charter.net.

Re: Microsoft Edge on the Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

If you like the compact version, you can download a better quality version of 
the voice if you wish.

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I am not a native inglish speaker but really like aron compact for reading 
> things on the internet.
> That’s if i am lazy and don’t wanna poke with my braille display.
> /A
> 
>> 27 juni 2020 kl. 21:52 skrev Leo Bado :
>> 
>> I find neural voices far more natural when reading large articles. For me 
>> everything is better, intonation, in-flexion, naturalness, and 
>> pronunciation. Objectively speaking, these characteristics are very 
>> important for me since I'm not a native English speaker, but I understand 
>> that they might not make much of a difference for a native English speaker. 
>> Well, what can I say? for the most part, this is a subjective matter 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>>Leo
>> 
>> On 6/27/2020 12:47 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
>>> Why don't you just use VoiceOver to read articles on the Internet when 
>>> using Edge on a Mac??
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 13:15, Leo Bado 
>>> 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> well, yes, I tried it out some weeks ago and it worked just fine; however, 
>>> I was expecting that the neural voices worked on the mac as well, but 
>>> sadly, they don't... and for me this feature it's very important since I 
>>> usually read articles on internet. I don't know if those voices are working 
>>> on the latest release, but if someone gives it a try, let us know.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>>Leo
>>> On 6/27/2020 9:21 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I decided to give the new Microsoft Edge browser a try, it works very 
>>>> well. You can definitely tell that it's based on code from Chromium since 
>>>> voiceover reads things very similarly to how things read in Chrome, but 
>>>> there are some differences. I'm not sure if Microsoft took steps to make 
>>>> Edge accessible or if this was automatic from how Chromium is designed, 
>>>> either way, we now have another accessible browser on Mac OS and that's a 
>>>> good thing. 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>  
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>  
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/48772439-9e3f-a43a-8e0b-cf791af707cb%40gmail.com.
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/B724AAA7-7251-4DB4-98DA-02E08BCDD143%40pipkrokodil.se.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please con

Re: Microsoft Edge on the Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

It's a separate download, if you do a google search for microsoft edge it 
should be the first result.

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:25 AM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Mike,
> Is MS Edge part of the Office 365 suite, or a separate download?
> 
> Dave Carlson
>  Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker
> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 8:21 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> I decided to give the new Microsoft Edge browser a try, it works very well. 
> You can definitely tell that it's based on code from Chromium since voiceover 
> reads things very similarly to how things read in Chrome, but there are some 
> differences. I'm not sure if Microsoft took steps to make Edge accessible or 
> if this was automatic from how Chromium is designed, either way, we now have 
> another accessible browser on Mac OS and that's a good thing. 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/B80BADA5-A684-483F-9DEF-32C00C834D61%40charter.net.
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/170E165D-A951-4BBB-9F19-940FEECC1E21%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/4EE3EA37-4075-44D9-8E2B-F532454B58BE%40charter.net.

Microsoft Edge on the Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

I decided to give the new Microsoft Edge browser a try, it works very well. You 
can definitely tell that it's based on code from Chromium since voiceover reads 
things very similarly to how things read in Chrome, but there are some 
differences. I'm not sure if Microsoft took steps to make Edge accessible or if 
this was automatic from how Chromium is designed, either way, we now have 
another accessible browser on Mac OS and that's a good thing. 

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/B80BADA5-A684-483F-9DEF-32C00C834D61%40charter.net.

Re: Microsoft Edge on Catalina

[Mike Arrigo]

I'm surprised Microsoft developed Edge for the Mac. It uses the Chrome engine I 
think so it's probably similar to just using Chrome.

> On Jun 23, 2020, at 11:30 AM, Paul Hopewell  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I am running the latest Catalina on my iMac and have been trying the 
> Microsoft Edge web browser. It looks good so far. It is fast and I have not 
> seen much busy.
> IS there any way to transfer my bookmarks from Safari to Edge? Not being able 
> to do this will inhibit my use of Edge! 
> Best … Paul Hopewell
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/00ED8227-CA5D-40B6-BDEC-35F51A2BA3E6%40hopewell.org.uk.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0F50E1B8-0D78-4653-9576-C10D17E10C4D%40charter.net.

Re: Firefox

[Mike Arrigo]

The last time I tried firefox was a few months ago and it was very sluggish to 
the point that it was not a good experience at all. The best browsers on the 
mac are Safari and Chrome.

> On May 6, 2020, at 1:58 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>   It should work similar to Safari. You interact with the web content area. 
> The thing is that as far as I have found, Firefox can be very sluggish with 
> VoiceOver with delays up to a few seconds before VO commands are acted upon. 
> They were doing a great job making VO work with FF, but this effort, to me, 
> has seemed to have paused.
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 6, 2020, at 2:34 PM, Angus MacKinnon  wrote:
>> 
>> How does a VO user get into firefox 76.x’s Advanced menu using 10.15.4 on an 
>> iMac? Thank you.
>> 
>> Angus MacKinnon, Personalism Student
>> Ghandi said, “ It is better to have a heart without words than words without 
>> a heart.”
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>  
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>  
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/80B855B1-C914-45EB-A131-5F592A9D3910%40gmail.com.
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/F7BC412F-3E90-4458-A7BA-80A821760496%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/437A1A56-AD0E-4A02-89C9-FE00F392101A%40charter.net.

Re: Catalina -- What are Caveats and Trade-Offs?

[Mike Arrigo]

Catalina is working fine for me, if your mac is capable of running it, there is 
no reason not to upgrade.

> On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:21 PM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> I’m still ignoring the upgrade notice to get Catalina over my Mojave OSX. Can 
> anyone list known things that changed, possibly detrimental or just plain 
> irritating?
> 
> I may take the plunge since there’s a bit of downtime around here.
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Musician, Engineer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, and Pioneer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/1CFF827B-EBE8-4616-9DE4-E52B7D848EEE%40sbcglobal.net.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/86F17A11-9B5A-4325-A71F-2FE3B6C209B5%40charter.net.

Re: Question about Chrome

[Mike Arrigo]

When it comes to Chrome, it's good to have around. There are some things that 
it does better than safari, particularly some drop lists to not speak in safari 
but work fine in Chrome. Chrome also now has the ability to describe images 
that are not labeled.

> On Dec 21, 2019, at 5:31 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> HI!
> No i don’t but sometimes it has to be used as some pages does not work 
> properly in safari.
> /A
> 
>> 20 dec. 2019 kl. 15:16 skrev 'Kristeen Hughes' via MacVisionaries 
>> :
>> 
>> Do people prefer it over Safari? If people are using it, how do you import 
>> your bookmarks and settings from Safari?
>> 
>> Thanks for any info.
>> 
>> Kristeen
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/35A0D269-6206-4904-87BC-655399FFAB20%40icloud.com.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/28A18098-20F7-440E-8E8A-6F6198807034%40pipkrokodil.se.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/81F36122-DE11-44DE-BA32-A0925D5AE78A%40charter.net.

Re: dom order

[Mike Arrigo]

Dom order navigates the web page by object, in the order that the HTML 
specifies. This will usually be the setting you want. I have never really tried 
the group mode setting since the dom setting has always worked for me.

> On Nov 17, 2019, at 3:51 PM, Lorie McCloud  wrote:
> 
> can somebody tell me what dom order is and how it differes from the other 
> setting for navigation in vo utility? I changed my setting and it fixed my 
> problem. I'd like to be aware of what else may change for me in Safari. 
> 
> thanks.
> Lorie
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/3A10DC04-BF8D-49A0-9B28-337107908C38%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/70158605-0814-4454-80EF-3E6182553173%40charter.net.

Re: A Substitute for Alex -- Where is Eloquence?

[Mike Arrigo]

I do like that synthesizer but I don't see it coming to Apple products either. 
The closest voice to that would be Fred. Even though many blind computer users 
like that synth, in the main stream world it is considered outdated and as far 
as I know there is no further cdevelopment being done with it.

> On Sep 14, 2019, at 10:35 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Dave, in word, no. So far as I know, there is no and will never be eloquence 
> for the Mac. I know a lot of people like that synthesizer. I can’t imagine 
> why, but I just can’t see it ever coming to any Apple products.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2019, at 8:30 PM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
>> 
>> Just as the subject says, can I get good old Eloquence loaded on my Mac to 
>> use for VO?
>> 
>> Dave Carlson
>> Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/D51FDC5E-1921-4434-92F7-FBE6605EC92D%40sbcglobal.net.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/C912B0AE-11F0-41E3-A335-633ED3320B2F%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/D0FFA8C9-0539-49D9-84FE-7628AA59187D%40charter.net.

Re: any outstanding issues with voiceover and catalina to look out for?

[Mike Arrigo]

Are there any new features for voiceover specifically?

> On Sep 14, 2019, at 9:01 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Voiceover is no worse than under Mojave as far as I can tell from my 
> testing.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 9/13/2019 9:55 PM, Michael Marshall wrote:
>> hey,
>> i’ve not been testing catalina for a few weeks now because i have been 
>> extremely busy.
>> i am playing with IOS 13 and loving it so far tho.
>> just wanting to know if there are any major difficulties still present? i 
>> want to jump in again but just want to know how stable VO is.
>> thanks for any help
>> Michael
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/11829ad2-16ea-e87b-73d8-ed36026428a7%40icloud.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0635C7F7-4C35-4BA9-B4A5-A3E9094B3F2B%40charter.net.

Re: APFS or Mac Extended Journal for backup drive

[Mike Arrigo]

You can convert it if you wish, but it's not necessary. I have the same set up, 
it works fine.

> On Jul 19, 2019, at 1:12 PM, 'Robert Cole' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dear List, My Mac is APFS, but my backup drive is Mac Extended Journal, 
> Should I convert the USB external drive to APFS?
> Thanks in advance,
> Rob
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/FBD01D2B-655E-4E27-A6AB-8AB5394A57A4%40icloud.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/A50D7AC4-03B9-4401-8D0C-857F746312E1%40charter.net.

Re: Does a mac Mini have to be plugged into a display at all times?

[Mike Arrigo]

Older mac minis did require a monitor connection, or you could use an 
adapter called the fit headless which emulates a monitor. This is no 
longer required however.

Original message:

Hi,
Something else I read a while ago, that for a Mac mini to work well or
to work at all it had to be plugged into a monitor which is rather
superfluous for most VO users.  I seem to remember also reading about
a sort of adaptor, a dongle, which could be used instead of a monitor.
Anyway, over to the list.
Ben



--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
at caraqu...@caraquinn.com



The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/CA%2ByxY95X6_u_CV6RdCpiH8dc_yi%3DsTkhYhnQEbRC2axa%2B_A22w%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/93e68579.e3c1.420b.91c2.f022266f4bc4%40samobile.net.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: CleanMyMac worth the price

[Mike Arrigo]

I wonder if it cleans more things than cocktail or onyx does, I may check this 
program out.

> On Mar 2, 2019, at 10:21 PM, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
> Okay,
> 
> I couldn’t care less if I sound like a commercial here.  But, fact of the 
> matter is this.  I bought CleanMyMac and it’s totally worth the $39.00 I paid 
> for it.  It’s made my this here dinosaur of a mid 2009 Mac book Pro a lot 
> snappier than it was before.  Mail is opening and behaving much much faster, 
> Safari is both opening and browsing much much faster than before and overall, 
> I can’t say enough about how much faster this thing is.  I’m just wondering 
> if there’s any way to fix the time it takes to boot up from either restart or 
> having been shut down.  It used to only take about 40 seconds now it takes 
> about a minute and 30 seconds.  The only thing I’ve got starting up at the 
> beginning is Drop Box.  That routs to a spinning 4TB drive but the Drop Box 
> partition is only 1TB on that disk.  Anything I might be overlooking?  Oh, 
> needless to say, I cannot upgrade to Mohavi because this here Mac is way too 
> old.
> 
> 
> Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> The constantly barefooted Ray
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Mojave not workingg well for me

[Mike Arrigo]

First thing I would do is erase the drive and do a clean fresh install. I 
always do this every time a new major release comes out, it takes longer but 
avoids these kinds of problems.

> On Jan 13, 2019, at 3:17 PM, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I have a Mac Mini 2013 with 16GB of RAM. All previous upgrades have gone 
> well. However, just before Christmas I upgraded to Mojave and I keep having 
> some kind of VoiceOver crash. I have reinstalled Mojave 3 times now. Each 
> time it works well for a week or so. Then I get busy notices. I can leave it 
> and it doesn't calm down. If I CMD + tab it crashes i.e. VoiceOver will not 
> talk nor restart. When I try to restart although VO does not speak sound has 
> not crashed as time announcements are announced as configured. I have set all 
> voice output to Daniel. If I leave the machine for a while the same crash 
> occurs. I can CMD + w and q in an attempt to close running applications. I 
> can Eject + CTL and shutdown which works. It is something to do with 
> VoiceOver but I haven't seen anyone else have the same issues. I have a 
> Brailliant 40 display connected via USB which doesn't work during normal 
> operation. However, it does during the install process.
> 
> I intended upon doing a fresh install last time but neglected to wipe the 
> disk first.
> 
> How do I look through the logs to see what is going on? If a clean fresh 
> install does not fix these issues. What other investigations can I undertake?
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Gena
> 
> Call: M0EBP
> Loc: IO83PS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: VMWare Fusion Question or Two

[Mike Arrigo]

I work in tech support and have gotten some calls from users of our 
windows software having issues with a virtual machine both on Fusion 
and Parallels. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that if you want 
to run Windows, use a separate PC, you will have far less problems.

Original message:

Jonathan,
It is starting to look lihe running a VM is not as good a deal as a
standalone Windows machine. I am also losing faith in the VMware forums.



 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?



On 11/30/2018 7:57 AM, Jonathan Cohn wrote:
This is the second person I have heard having issues with a Focus 
display and current versions. ET was unable to get the Focus driver 
installed. Does anybody know if these issues have been discussed with 
VMWare? I guess the one other major issue we in the Blind community 
have experienced with VMWare is that the Caps lock does not get 
transferred over to the VM without major hacks. Personally, I would 
love to have my Windows USB keyboard hard attached to the VM but I have 
no idea if this is possible.

On Nov 28, 2018, at 10:49 AM, Pete De Vasto  wrote:



Hi Kelly,


I’ve struggled with VMWare Fusion lots as well, but do have it going 
pretty much all the time now. The one trick I’ve noticed you have to do 
is toggle back and forth in and out of your machine’s screen while it’s 
starting up. I hope I can explain this correctly, here goes:


When your machine starts, you’ll eventually hear VO say “suspend this 
guest operating system”. At that point, press Command+control+f. You’ll 
probably hear VO say something like space with applications followed by 
whatever is currently running, like finder, Mail, Messages or whatever. 
Press Control+command+f again, and you should hear VO say “Space with 
the name of your Windows machine full-screen”. At that point, you know 
you are in the VMWare window. Press Control+G to give keyboard focus to 
the VM machine. Oh yeah, and the keystroke to start Narrator won’t 
work, because VO is picking up the Control+Windows combination as its 
command. I normally do Windows+R, then type Narrator, and it does come 
up. Then, to get out of Narrator, I have to alt-tab to the Narrator 
Settings window, and when I press Alt+F4, Narrator does exit. If you 
can get to the point where you can in fact install JAWS, it does work 
pretty nicely, by the way. I started out with VMWare 10, and my USB 
devices, including my Focus 40 Blue, connected just fine. But then I 
tried upgrading to VMWare Version 11, and for some reason I couldn't 
get any of my USB devices going, so I had to go back to version 10.


I hope this isn’t confusing, and that maybe others can chime in with 
clarifications or other thoughts. Good luck and I hope you can get it going.



Pete De Vasto



On Nov 27, 2018, at 5:15 PM, kelly ford  wrote:



Hi,


These are probably basic questions but if there is a pointer or other 
resource, I’d appreciate hearing about it. I am trying to get VMWare 
Fusion to run on a MacBook Pro and not having a lot of luck.  I launch 
the program and it opens but then stops responding. Eventually I force 
quit the program.


Does this generally work and if so any thoughts on what might be up? 
I’ve used VirtualBox successfully previously on the same machine.



The machine is fully updated to the latest Mac OS.



Thank you,



Kelly



--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
at caraqu...@caraquinn.com



The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
at caraqu...@caraquinn.com



The archives for this list can be searched at:

Re: New mac mini announced!

[Mike Arrigo]

I went ahead and got a new mini a few weeks ago even though it had not been 
updated since 2014, seeing what Apple has introduced, I do not regret that 
decision. It's plenty fast for what I need it to do and the new minis start at 
almost twice the price of what I paid for mine.

> On Nov 1, 2018, at 9:27 AM, Steve Matzura  wrote:
> 
> I was disappointed that the best thing the new Mini has to offer is six 
> cores. Yeah, lots of Thunderbolt, but I don't own any such devices, so I'd 
> have to buy a lot of adapters. And just how many USB ports does one get out 
> of one Thunderbolt port?
> 
> I, too, changed the internal 5400rpm mechanical drive for a 2TB SSD, as well 
> as upgrading the memory, and the performance improvements were like going 
> from dark night to bright day.
> 
> I suspect I would get a lot more out of my 2012 Mini if only Apple would fix 
> the problem of VoiceOver not being stuck to using one CPU core. More cores 
> would be nice for folks using programs that hog CPU, but so far, the only 
> program I've found that ever hogged CPU on my Mini that is now in its last 
> year of operating-system upgradability is VO. SO I'll keep my 2012 Mini until 
> I absolutely positively cannot use High Sierra any more. Yes, I can upgrade 
> to Mojave, but not until Avid says I can (LOL). Gotta love companies either 
> not being ready for these things, or for being ultra-conservative about OS 
> upgrades.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Note on Google Chrome 70 for Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

I noticed this too and there is an easy fix. Go to the menu bar and choose the 
chrome menu, there is an option that says confirm before quitting, once that is 
unchecked, command+q will work normally.

> On Oct 28, 2018, at 6:38 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I’ve noticed since upgrading to Chrome 70 that Command-Q no longer exits the 
> application, unless I’ve already used Command-W to close all open Web page 
> tabs. I suspect this is an intentional change.
>  
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: love my new Macbook Air

[Mike Arrigo]

I think it has a 1.4 GHZ I5 processor and a 250 GB solid state drive, 
it was the mid range one, they had one with an I7 processor and a 500 
GB drive but that one was $500 more.

Original message:
Which model did you get?  I’m in the market for a new one, sense my 
Macbook Pro may be close to being on its way out.

On Oct 12, 2018, at 3:29 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:


I spent most of last night setting up my new Macbook Air, will 
hopefully finish that tonight. I love it. It boots up so fast since it 
has an SSD drive and the battery life is definitely better than my 
previous laptop, I turn the keyboard and display lights all the way 
down since I can't see good enough to read print, that really saves the 
battery. It's an awesome laptop, I will be sorry to see it go if Apple 
retires them, I'm definitely glad I got it when I did.



--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
at caraqu...@caraquinn.com



The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
at caraqu...@caraquinn.com



The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: issue with Mojave

[Mike Arrigo]

With this particular window, it does not show up in system dialogs at all, 
trying to get to it using the application chooser will not work.

> On Oct 14, 2018, at 11:08 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   I will sure take a closer look at this next time the password request comes 
> up. Your explanation made it pretty clear what is happening, thanks.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 10/13/2018 1:35 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Hi,
>> When you hear announcements like "Security Agent has no windows", or 
>> similarly with some other agent, this is an invisible layer that sighted 
>> users would never notice, but because we want VO to notice just about 
>> everything, those agents often take over VO focus.  Normally, cmd-tab, a 
>> physical click of the mouse or trackpad button, or in some cases, the 
>> virtual click with VO-shift-space will bring focus back to the Finder.   
>> After focus is on the Finder, you should be able to use the Application 
>> Chooser, or Window Chooser to locate the necessary entry area.  Note that 
>> the Security agent is a call to a process, thus the entry area is not a 
>> window that belongs to the Security Agent, so doing the Window Chooser while 
>> VO focus is within the security Agent will not be successful.
>> Hope this makes sense.
>> Later...
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Apple Teacher
>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 14:18, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>>   Unless I am mistaken, I hear "security agent has no window". And thus, I 
>> have never been able to find it with the chooser.
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com <mailto:ancient.ali...@icloud.com>
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> On 10/13/2018 1:10 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>>> I had tried that, unfortunately this one does not show as a system dialog, 
>>> at least it only happens on one of my macs and not all of them.
>>>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 1:36 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> On my MBP with TouchBar, the Touch ID or password request does appear 
>>>> normally without extra interventions.  I recommend you use the method 
>>>> suggested by Oriol, whereby you use the Application Chooser, VO-f1-f1.  An 
>>>> item named System Dialogs should be there, select it then go right and 
>>>> down to the appropriate window.  You should easily be able to enter your 
>>>> password in this situation.  There are a number of situations where System 
>>>> dialogs are present, but not readily noticeable to us, but sighted users 
>>>> see them plainly in the way of whatever we are focused on as VO users.
>>>> 
>>>> Later...
>>>> 
>>>> Tim Kilburn
>>>> Apple Teacher
>>>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 11:25, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>   That is why I bother with clean installs, to make sure issues do not 
>>>> carry over. I also have a MBP.
>>>> 
>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com <mailto:ancient.ali...@icloud.com>
>>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>> 
>>>> On 10/13/2018 10:15 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>>>>> I noticed that as well, I did need to enter my mac password, whenever 
>>>>> there is a new major release of the operating system, I always erase my 
>>>>> drive and do a clean install to give everything a fresh start.
>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 10:31 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>> >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   If you can see a little, increase the mouse pointer size.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   High Sierra has the same issue and I was hopeful it would be gone in 
>>>>>> Mojave.
>>>>>> 
>>>>

Re: issue with Mojave

[Mike Arrigo]

So far I have had no luck getting carbon copy cloner authorized. When the 
password window appears, it just says busy and will not read anything when I 
use the trackpad, I will probably have to get sighted help for this. It's just 
really interesting that this does not happen at all with either of my mac 
minis, so that makes me wonder what is different about the macbook air that 
causes it

> On Oct 13, 2018, at 3:35 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> When you hear announcements like "Security Agent has no windows", or 
> similarly with some other agent, this is an invisible layer that sighted 
> users would never notice, but because we want VO to notice just about 
> everything, those agents often take over VO focus.  Normally, cmd-tab, a 
> physical click of the mouse or trackpad button, or in some cases, the virtual 
> click with VO-shift-space will bring focus back to the Finder.  After focus 
> is on the Finder, you should be able to use the Application Chooser, or 
> Window Chooser to locate the necessary entry area.  Note that the Security 
> agent is a call to a process, thus the entry area is not a window that 
> belongs to the Security Agent, so doing the Window Chooser while VO focus is 
> within the security Agent will not be successful.
> 
> Hope this makes sense.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Oct 13, 2018, at 14:18, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Unless I am mistaken, I hear "security agent has no window". And thus, I 
> have never been able to find it with the chooser.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 10/13/2018 1:10 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>> I had tried that, unfortunately this one does not show as a system dialog, 
>> at least it only happens on one of my macs and not all of them.
>>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 1:36 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> On my MBP with TouchBar, the Touch ID or password request does appear 
>>> normally without extra interventions.  I recommend you use the method 
>>> suggested by Oriol, whereby you use the Application Chooser, VO-f1-f1.  An 
>>> item named System Dialogs should be there, select it then go right and down 
>>> to the appropriate window.  You should easily be able to enter your 
>>> password in this situation.  There are a number of situations where System 
>>> dialogs are present, but not readily noticeable to us, but sighted users 
>>> see them plainly in the way of whatever we are focused on as VO users.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Apple Teacher
>>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 11:25, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   That is why I bother with clean installs, to make sure issues do not 
>>> carry over. I also have a MBP.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 10/13/2018 10:15 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>>>> I noticed that as well, I did need to enter my mac password, whenever 
>>>> there is a new major release of the operating system, I always erase my 
>>>> drive and do a clean install to give everything a fresh start.
>>>>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 10:31 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>   If you can see a little, increase the mouse pointer size.
>>>>> 
>>>>>   High Sierra has the same issue and I was hopeful it would be gone in 
>>>>> Mojave.
>>>>> 
>>>>>   As to Dropbox, if the app is already installed and you are prompted to 
>>>>> sign in, while VO will speak the fields as you navigate, it will not echo 
>>>>> what you are typing in. Enter your user ID then move VO and back so it 
>>>>> will read it to you. I have made Dropbox very aware of this but they need 
>>>>> to hear from others too..
>>>>> 
>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 10/13/2018 

Re: issue with Mojave

[Mike Arrigo]

I had tried that, unfortunately this one does not show as a system dialog, at 
least it only happens on one of my macs and not all of them.

> On Oct 13, 2018, at 1:36 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On my MBP with TouchBar, the Touch ID or password request does appear 
> normally without extra interventions.  I recommend you use the method 
> suggested by Oriol, whereby you use the Application Chooser, VO-f1-f1.  An 
> item named System Dialogs should be there, select it then go right and down 
> to the appropriate window.  You should easily be able to enter your password 
> in this situation.  There are a number of situations where System dialogs are 
> present, but not readily noticeable to us, but sighted users see them plainly 
> in the way of whatever we are focused on as VO users.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Oct 13, 2018, at 11:25, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   That is why I bother with clean installs, to make sure issues do not carry 
> over. I also have a MBP.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 10/13/2018 10:15 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>> I noticed that as well, I did need to enter my mac password, whenever there 
>> is a new major release of the operating system, I always erase my drive and 
>> do a clean install to give everything a fresh start.
>>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 10:31 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   If you can see a little, increase the mouse pointer size.
>>> 
>>>   High Sierra has the same issue and I was hopeful it would be gone in 
>>> Mojave.
>>> 
>>>   As to Dropbox, if the app is already installed and you are prompted to 
>>> sign in, while VO will speak the fields as you navigate, it will not echo 
>>> what you are typing in. Enter your user ID then move VO and back so it will 
>>> read it to you. I have made Dropbox very aware of this but they need to 
>>> hear from others too..
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 10/13/2018 6:58 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>>>> I did get it to work but it really is a pain, you have to use the trackpad 
>>>> to get the mouse in t the window and then click it, I will definitely be 
>>>> sending a report to Apple on this one, it will be interesting to see if it 
>>>> happens with my mac minis as well.
>>>>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 8:41 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I will try Ann's suggestion, just doing vo+shift+space does not seem to 
>>>>> work, I'm actually surprised this got through testing, I would consider 
>>>>> this to be a major bug or a show stopper, I may consider going back to 
>>>>> high sierra since I never had the problem there.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 8:32 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Interesting, never had the problem in Sierra, that makes sense though, 
>>>>>> to do a mouse click on the window. I can see good enough to know that 
>>>>>> there is a box on the screen, I just can't read it or see good enough to 
>>>>>> move the mouse to it, that is a major bug, I will try the mouse click 
>>>>>> idea.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Oct 12, 2018, at 11:08 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This has carried over from High Sierra. It is worse in Mojave. Its hit 
>>>>>>> and miss. When you hear the "security agent has no window" press VO 
>>>>>>> plus shift plus space.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>>>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>>>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>>>>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 10/12/2018 9:03 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hey everyone, ok, found an odd issue with Mojave, wonder if anyone 
>>>>>>>> else has seen this, I'm not sure if it's voiceover related or the 
>>>>>>>> operating system itself. When moving 

Re: issue with Mojave

[Mike Arrigo]

Interesting, I never experienced this with high sierra at all, and it only 
happens on my new macbook air, the mac minis don't have the issue at all.

> On Oct 13, 2018, at 10:33 AM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
> 
> Hello Mike,
> 
> The issue was present in High Sierra but not Sierra. I didn’t install High 
> Sierra on my personal computer because it had too many annoying issues for 
> me, but I find that Mojave is a big improvement.
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 13 Oct 2018, at 15:58, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>> I did get it to work but it really is a pain, you have to use the trackpad 
>> to get the mouse in t the window and then click it, I will definitely be 
>> sending a report to Apple on this one, it will be interesting to see if it 
>> happens with my mac minis as well.
>> 
>>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 8:41 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I will try Ann's suggestion, just doing vo+shift+space does not seem to 
>>> work, I'm actually surprised this got through testing, I would consider 
>>> this to be a major bug or a show stopper, I may consider going back to high 
>>> sierra since I never had the problem there.
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 8:32 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Interesting, never had the problem in Sierra, that makes sense though, to 
>>>> do a mouse click on the window. I can see good enough to know that there 
>>>> is a box on the screen, I just can't read it or see good enough to move 
>>>> the mouse to it, that is a major bug, I will try the mouse click idea.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 12, 2018, at 11:08 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> This has carried over from High Sierra. It is worse in Mojave. Its hit 
>>>>> and miss. When you hear the "security agent has no window" press VO plus 
>>>>> shift plus space.
>>>>> 
>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 10/12/2018 9:03 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>>>>>> Hey everyone, ok, found an odd issue with Mojave, wonder if anyone else 
>>>>>> has seen this, I'm not sure if it's voiceover related or the operating 
>>>>>> system itself. When moving or copying files to any place outside of your 
>>>>>> home folder, you are normally prompted for your password. However, in 
>>>>>> Mojave, voiceover says security agent has no windows, a finder window 
>>>>>> appears saying that it's preparing to copy files but since there is no 
>>>>>> way to enter the password, the only way out of this window is to force 
>>>>>> the finder to relaunch. This is on my new macbook air, have not tried it 
>>>>>> on my mac minis yet.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running o

Re: issue with Mojave

[Mike Arrigo]

I noticed that as well, I did need to enter my mac password, whenever there is 
a new major release of the operating system, I always erase my drive and do a 
clean install to give everything a fresh start.

> On Oct 13, 2018, at 10:31 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   If you can see a little, increase the mouse pointer size.
> 
>   High Sierra has the same issue and I was hopeful it would be gone in Mojave.
> 
>   As to Dropbox, if the app is already installed and you are prompted to sign 
> in, while VO will speak the fields as you navigate, it will not echo what you 
> are typing in. Enter your user ID then move VO and back so it will read it to 
> you. I have made Dropbox very aware of this but they need to hear from others 
> too..
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 10/13/2018 6:58 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>> I did get it to work but it really is a pain, you have to use the trackpad 
>> to get the mouse in t the window and then click it, I will definitely be 
>> sending a report to Apple on this one, it will be interesting to see if it 
>> happens with my mac minis as well.
>>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 8:41 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I will try Ann's suggestion, just doing vo+shift+space does not seem to 
>>> work, I'm actually surprised this got through testing, I would consider 
>>> this to be a major bug or a show stopper, I may consider going back to high 
>>> sierra since I never had the problem there.
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 8:32 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Interesting, never had the problem in Sierra, that makes sense though, to 
>>>> do a mouse click on the window. I can see good enough to know that there 
>>>> is a box on the screen, I just can't read it or see good enough to move 
>>>> the mouse to it, that is a major bug, I will try the mouse click idea.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 12, 2018, at 11:08 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> This has carried over from High Sierra. It is worse in Mojave. Its hit 
>>>>> and miss. When you hear the "security agent has no window" press VO plus 
>>>>> shift plus space.
>>>>> 
>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 10/12/2018 9:03 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>>>>>> Hey everyone, ok, found an odd issue with Mojave, wonder if anyone else 
>>>>>> has seen this, I'm not sure if it's voiceover related or the operating 
>>>>>> system itself. When moving or copying files to any place outside of your 
>>>>>> home folder, you are normally prompted for your password. However, in 
>>>>>> Mojave, voiceover says security agent has no windows, a finder window 
>>>>>> appears saying that it's preparing to copy files but since there is no 
>>>>>> way to enter the password, the only way out of this window is to force 
>>>>>> the finder to relaunch. This is on my new macbook air, have not tried it 
>>>>>> on my mac minis yet.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@go

Re: issue with Mojave

[Mike Arrigo]

Interestingly, I am setting up one of my mac minis with mojave now and this 
issue was not happen, works fine, so it appears to be specific to certain types 
of macs.

> On Oct 13, 2018, at 8:58 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> I did get it to work but it really is a pain, you have to use the trackpad to 
> get the mouse in t the window and then click it, I will definitely be sending 
> a report to Apple on this one, it will be interesting to see if it happens 
> with my mac minis as well.
> 
>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 8:41 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>> I will try Ann's suggestion, just doing vo+shift+space does not seem to 
>> work, I'm actually surprised this got through testing, I would consider this 
>> to be a major bug or a show stopper, I may consider going back to high 
>> sierra since I never had the problem there.
>> 
>>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 8:32 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Interesting, never had the problem in Sierra, that makes sense though, to 
>>> do a mouse click on the window. I can see good enough to know that there is 
>>> a box on the screen, I just can't read it or see good enough to move the 
>>> mouse to it, that is a major bug, I will try the mouse click idea.
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 12, 2018, at 11:08 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> This has carried over from High Sierra. It is worse in Mojave. Its hit and 
>>>> miss. When you hear the "security agent has no window" press VO plus shift 
>>>> plus space.
>>>> 
>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>> 
>>>> On 10/12/2018 9:03 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>>>>> Hey everyone, ok, found an odd issue with Mojave, wonder if anyone else 
>>>>> has seen this, I'm not sure if it's voiceover related or the operating 
>>>>> system itself. When moving or copying files to any place outside of your 
>>>>> home folder, you are normally prompted for your password. However, in 
>>>>> Mojave, voiceover says security agent has no windows, a finder window 
>>>>> appears saying that it's preparing to copy files but since there is no 
>>>>> way to enter the password, the only way out of this window is to force 
>>>>> the finder to relaunch. This is on my new macbook air, have not tried it 
>>>>> on my mac minis yet.
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>> 
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>> 
>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message be

Re: issue with Mojave

[Mike Arrigo]

I did get it to work but it really is a pain, you have to use the trackpad to 
get the mouse in t the window and then click it, I will definitely be sending a 
report to Apple on this one, it will be interesting to see if it happens with 
my mac minis as well.

> On Oct 13, 2018, at 8:41 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> I will try Ann's suggestion, just doing vo+shift+space does not seem to work, 
> I'm actually surprised this got through testing, I would consider this to be 
> a major bug or a show stopper, I may consider going back to high sierra since 
> I never had the problem there.
> 
>> On Oct 13, 2018, at 8:32 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>> Interesting, never had the problem in Sierra, that makes sense though, to do 
>> a mouse click on the window. I can see good enough to know that there is a 
>> box on the screen, I just can't read it or see good enough to move the mouse 
>> to it, that is a major bug, I will try the mouse click idea.
>> 
>>> On Oct 12, 2018, at 11:08 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> This has carried over from High Sierra. It is worse in Mojave. Its hit and 
>>> miss. When you hear the "security agent has no window" press VO plus shift 
>>> plus space.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 10/12/2018 9:03 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>>>> Hey everyone, ok, found an odd issue with Mojave, wonder if anyone else 
>>>> has seen this, I'm not sure if it's voiceover related or the operating 
>>>> system itself. When moving or copying files to any place outside of your 
>>>> home folder, you are normally prompted for your password. However, in 
>>>> Mojave, voiceover says security agent has no windows, a finder window 
>>>> appears saying that it's preparing to copy files but since there is no way 
>>>> to enter the password, the only way out of this window is to force the 
>>>> finder to relaunch. This is on my new macbook air, have not tried it on my 
>>>> mac minis yet.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionar

Re: issue with Mojave

[Mike Arrigo]

I will try Ann's suggestion, just doing vo+shift+space does not seem to work, 
I'm actually surprised this got through testing, I would consider this to be a 
major bug or a show stopper, I may consider going back to high sierra since I 
never had the problem there.

> On Oct 13, 2018, at 8:32 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> Interesting, never had the problem in Sierra, that makes sense though, to do 
> a mouse click on the window. I can see good enough to know that there is a 
> box on the screen, I just can't read it or see good enough to move the mouse 
> to it, that is a major bug, I will try the mouse click idea.
> 
>> On Oct 12, 2018, at 11:08 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  This has carried over from High Sierra. It is worse in Mojave. Its hit and 
>> miss. When you hear the "security agent has no window" press VO plus shift 
>> plus space.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 10/12/2018 9:03 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>>> Hey everyone, ok, found an odd issue with Mojave, wonder if anyone else has 
>>> seen this, I'm not sure if it's voiceover related or the operating system 
>>> itself. When moving or copying files to any place outside of your home 
>>> folder, you are normally prompted for your password. However, in Mojave, 
>>> voiceover says security agent has no windows, a finder window appears 
>>> saying that it's preparing to copy files but since there is no way to enter 
>>> the password, the only way out of this window is to force the finder to 
>>> relaunch. This is on my new macbook air, have not tried it on my mac minis 
>>> yet.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: issue with Mojave

[Mike Arrigo]

Interesting, never had the problem in Sierra, that makes sense though, to do a 
mouse click on the window. I can see good enough to know that there is a box on 
the screen, I just can't read it or see good enough to move the mouse to it, 
that is a major bug, I will try the mouse click idea.

> On Oct 12, 2018, at 11:08 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   This has carried over from High Sierra. It is worse in Mojave. Its hit and 
> miss. When you hear the "security agent has no window" press VO plus shift 
> plus space.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 10/12/2018 9:03 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>> Hey everyone, ok, found an odd issue with Mojave, wonder if anyone else has 
>> seen this, I'm not sure if it's voiceover related or the operating system 
>> itself. When moving or copying files to any place outside of your home 
>> folder, you are normally prompted for your password. However, in Mojave, 
>> voiceover says security agent has no windows, a finder window appears saying 
>> that it's preparing to copy files but since there is no way to enter the 
>> password, the only way out of this window is to force the finder to 
>> relaunch. This is on my new macbook air, have not tried it on my mac minis 
>> yet.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: issue with Mojave

[Mike Arrigo]

Just to follow up on this issue, it also happens while installing dropbox, 
there is simply no way to enter the administrator password, either I am missing 
something or this is a major bug.

> On Oct 12, 2018, at 11:03 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> Hey everyone, ok, found an odd issue with Mojave, wonder if anyone else has 
> seen this, I'm not sure if it's voiceover related or the operating system 
> itself. When moving or copying files to any place outside of your home 
> folder, you are normally prompted for your password. However, in Mojave, 
> voiceover says security agent has no windows, a finder window appears saying 
> that it's preparing to copy files but since there is no way to enter the 
> password, the only way out of this window is to force the finder to relaunch. 
> This is on my new macbook air, have not tried it on my mac minis yet.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

issue with Mojave

[Mike Arrigo]

Hey everyone, ok, found an odd issue with Mojave, wonder if anyone else has 
seen this, I'm not sure if it's voiceover related or the operating system 
itself. When moving or copying files to any place outside of your home folder, 
you are normally prompted for your password. However, in Mojave, voiceover says 
security agent has no windows, a finder window appears saying that it's 
preparing to copy files but since there is no way to enter the password, the 
only way out of this window is to force the finder to relaunch. This is on my 
new macbook air, have not tried it on my mac minis yet.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

love my new Macbook Air

[Mike Arrigo]

I spent most of last night setting up my new Macbook Air, will 
hopefully finish that tonight. I love it. It boots up so fast since it 
has an SSD drive and the battery life is definitely better than my 
previous laptop, I turn the keyboard and display lights all the way 
down since I can't see good enough to read print, that really saves the 
battery. It's an awesome laptop, I will be sorry to see it go if Apple 
retires them, I'm definitely glad I got it when I did.


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: a couple of new macs

[Mike Arrigo]

No, got them new at the Apple store here.
Original message:

Did you get refurbbed?



Sarai D Bucciarelli www.linkedin.com/in/SaraiDBucciarelli



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  
On Behalf Of Mike Arrigo

Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2018 11:58 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: a couple of new macs


So, my macbook and one of my mac minis would not run Mojave, so I 
figured it was time for an upgrade. Supposedly Apple is coming out with 
some new macs next week, however, based on the possible rumors, I 
decided to upgrade now for a couple of reasons. It's long been thought 
that Apple will discontinue the macbook air, and I really like that 
design. I got to try the keyboard that is used on the new Macbook pro 
and Macbook and I really didn't like it, I found myself making many 
more typing mistakes because it's harder to tell the keys apart, so I 
decided to get a Macbook Air since they may not be around much longer.
I also got a new mac mini, there are rumors that Apple may update the 
minis and there is also rumors that Apple may discontinue the mini 
altogether. Again, I like the design of the current Mac Mini so I 
decided to get one now. More than likely, if Apple does discontinue the 
Macbook Air, whatever replaces it will probably have the new style 
keyboard and I really did not want that. Also I saw no reason to get a 
Macbook Pro since I can't see well enough to benefit from the better 
display, and the Macbook that only has one USB C port that is also used 
for charging is a joke, any laptop should always have at least 2 USB 
ports. I will be curious to see what Apple introduces next week but I 
was able to get exactly what I wanted for an upgrade.



--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
at caraqu...@caraquinn.com



The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
at caraqu...@caraquinn.com



The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

a couple of new macs

[Mike Arrigo]

So, my macbook and one of my mac minis would not run Mojave, so I figured it 
was time for an upgrade. Supposedly Apple is coming out with some new macs next 
week, however, based on the possible rumors, I decided to upgrade now for a 
couple of reasons. It's long been thought that Apple will discontinue the 
macbook air, and I really like that design. I got to try the keyboard that is 
used on the new Macbook pro and Macbook and I really didn't like it, I found 
myself making many more typing mistakes because it's harder to tell the keys 
apart, so I decided to get a Macbook Air since they may not be around much 
longer.
I also got a new mac mini, there are rumors that Apple may update the minis and 
there is also rumors that Apple may discontinue the mini altogether. Again, I 
like the design of the current Mac Mini so I decided to get one now. More than 
likely, if Apple does discontinue the Macbook Air, whatever replaces it will 
probably have the new style keyboard and I really did not want that. Also I saw 
no reason to get a Macbook Pro since I can't see well enough to benefit from 
the better display, and the Macbook that only has one USB C port that is also 
used for charging is a joke, any laptop should always have at least 2 USB 
ports. I will be curious to see what Apple introduces next week but I was able 
to get exactly what I wanted for an upgrade.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Which is the “option“ key on a windows keyboard when using a Mac?

[Mike Arrigo]

Actuallym, the windows key is command and the alt key is option, the opposite 
of an apple keyboard, I use regular keyboards on both of my mac minis.

> On Sep 28, 2018, at 3:45 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> There are keyboards that let you type on either Mac, iOS, or Windows systems. 
> The general layout for the windows keys that is the ones to the left of the 
> space bar , would be control windows altthen the space bar . So if you are 
> using a Mac does the windows key become the option and the alt key become the 
> command?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "VIPhone" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to viph...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/viphone.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Upgrading iMac

[Mike Arrigo]

If you want to create an install drive without having to type commands 
in the terminal, here is a link to a program called install disk 
creator. It automates the process of creating an install drive. I made 
one with an 8 GB SD card, works great.

https://macdaddy.io/install-disk-creator/
Original message:

Hello Angus,
If you download Mojave and quit the installer, here is the terminal 
command to make a bootable installer key. You need a USB stick of at 
least 8 gb and you need to name it Untitled.
sudo /Applications/Install\ macOS\ 
Mojave.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume 
/Volumes/Untitled --applicationpath //Applications/Install\ macOS\ 
Mojave.app —nointeraction


And for those who have a Mac that’s just too old to take Mojave but did 
take High Sierra, there's a hack available. Unfortunately, you need 
sighted help to use the hack. We’ve used it on a white MacBook from mid 
2010 and it works beautifully.

Cheers,



Anne





On 27 Sep 2018, at 19:02, Angus MacKinnon  wrote:


Can I use Terminal to upgrade my Os 10.11.6 2013 iMac to OS 10.14? if 
so, how? Thank you.



Angus MacKinnon, Personalism Student
Hands Off Our Harness
http://www.hooh.ca
Charles Péguy said, “The revolution is moral or not at all”



--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
at caraqu...@caraquinn.com



The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
at caraqu...@caraquinn.com



The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Getting rid of the confirmation message when deleting a conversation in the messages app

[Mike Arrigo]

I think this started with IOS 11, no way that I know of to get rid of it.
Original message:
It seems to me that are used to have my Messages app set such that if I 
hit delete on a message or a message conversation, it would go away 
without asking me if I wanted to delete it. Maybe I’m just miss 
remembering. That changed at some point, not with iOS 12 however. I 
would like to stop this behavior. I want to have the conversation go 
away without the confirmation being necessary. I looked in settings for 
Messages, and I don’t see that choice in there. Is it somewhere else? 
Or is it just not possible?

Mary




Sent from my iPhone



--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
at caraqu...@caraquinn.com



The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: no new macs

[Mike Arrigo]

I hope you're right, I guess time will tell.

> On Sep 12, 2018, at 7:04 PM, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
> Not quite so fast friend.  Apple may decide to role out new Macs as just a 
> simple announcement instead of a huge event.  Remember, we’re still awaiting 
> those new eighteen core machines.
> 
> 
> Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> The constantly barefooted Ray
> 
>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 6:53 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>> Looks like there will not be any new macs, I know there were rumors of a new 
>> mac mini and a new laptop to replace the macbook air but that appears not to 
>> be the case, Apple's announcement included the 3 new iphones and the new 
>> Apple watch, I plan on getting a Macbook Air and new mac mini later this 
>> year.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

no new macs

[Mike Arrigo]

Looks like there will not be any new macs, I know there were rumors of a new 
mac mini and a new laptop to replace the macbook air but that appears not to be 
the case, Apple's announcement included the 3 new iphones and the new Apple 
watch, I plan on getting a Macbook Air and new mac mini later this year.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Absolutely at my wit's end with web browser busy nonsense

[Mike Arrigo]

I have noticed that a lot of this happens on web sites that insist on putting a 
bunch of frames of advertisements on them, on those sites, safari is worse than 
chrome, but yes, it is very annoying when it happens.

> On Aug 13, 2018, at 4:49 PM, 'Marshall Scott' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> The only thing I can suggest is to try to navigate around the problem area.  
> I realize this isn't of much help.  The only other thing I can think of is 
> for everyone who has this issue to call Apple Accessibility every time it 
> happens.  Unfortunately, this might have undesirable consequences in terms of 
> support.
> Marshall
> 
> 
>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 2:55 PM, Christine Grassman  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I have tried everything: cleaning out unnecessary files, doing a disk 
>> utility first aid check, PRAM and SMC, numerous reboots: no matter what web 
>> browser I use, no matter how close to my router I am, no matter what I do, 
>> whenever I perform searches, try to fill anything out, read through headings 
>> or other information, busy becomes a monster and is costing literally taking 
>> hours out of my days to complete the simplest tasks to more involved ones.
>> Is there a darn thing I can do, and/or is there something visiting the 
>> Genius Bar might accomplish?
>> Christine
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.