Disableing the lock screen in Lion
Hello all, I was wondering where you go to disable the lock screen in Lion or change when it comes up? I looked in system prefs under energy saver but only found stuff for Putting the computer to sleep and dimming the display. Its quite annoying when it locks while doing a say all on a page with an article, for example. Thanks, Mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Disableing the lock screen in Lion
Its not the same thing. It locks and I have to reenter my password. When it sleeps it turns off and goes into a low powered state. Mike On May 4, 2012, at 11:30 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote: Hi, Isn't that what you want though? To make the computer not go to sleep? Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On May 5, 2012, at 1:07 AM, Mike Reiser mikereise...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I was wondering where you go to disable the lock screen in Lion or change when it comes up? I looked in system prefs under energy saver but only found stuff for Putting the computer to sleep and dimming the display. Its quite annoying when it locks while doing a say all on a page with an article, for example. Thanks, Mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Twitter clients for the Mac.
I'd suggest www.macfortheblind.com Provides a good blog like interface for finding about apps, I do like having a central place for mac app resources like applevis. Mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
All the screen readers as previously mentioned have to do quite a bit of hacking to work with it on Windows, they'll need to overhall access on both platforms imho. Mike On May 3, 2011, at 12:42 PM, Chris Moore wrote: That is because there is no built in screen reader for Windows, all the screen readers rely on scripts to work. scripting to get programs to work on OS X is not an option available to us, so therefore we have to apply pressure on Microsoft to become more compliant with Apple's standards. Adobe are making strides to improve accessibility on the Mac for Flash and Acrobat. ok it is not here, yet but it will be here within the next 12 months. We have to bare in mind that Microsoft does not make any of the screen readers on the Windows platform, so it is up to the vendors to get their products to work with the OS and it's applications. On 3 May 2011, at 19:40, E.J. Zufelt wrote: Good afternoon, Just as an FYI, MS Office for Windows isn't actually compatible with Windows screen-readers. There is a great deal of scripting required in order to make windows screen-readers work with MS Office products. I'm not saying that your campaign won't work. But, I just wanted to point out that MS Office isn't actually natively accessible on either platform. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-05-03, at 2:28 PM, Chris Moore wrote: hi, Maybe we should start a campaign to get Office on the Mac accessible. Anyone up for it? If you know anyone who is willing to send an email requesting that Microsoft make their Office Suite accessible then point them to this web page.http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product-feedback Select the Office product you are interested in providing feedback for and say something like I am very interested in purchasing your Office Suite for the Macintosh platform. However, i understand your product is not accessible as it is not compatible with VoiceOver which is the built in screen reader for the blind for OS X. If you were to add support for VoiceOver, this would result in thousands of Sales. Money always gets their attention. Chris -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Webkit and Audible
I can confirm this here, is working well here as well. Mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: safari 5 bug not fixed with new os release
I assume this will take a safari fix and maybe not the update. Mike aim screen name: chrchmiker MSN screen name: blindgu...@gmail.com yahoo screen name: miker19882001 skype name: miker1988 twitter: http://www.twitter.com/archenemy12 facebook: http://www.facebook.com/blindguy21 On Jun 15, 2010, at 10:04 PM, Dan Roy wrote: I don't use ichat, but, the only thing is, with the audible bug, someone would have to have an account to see it happen. I have no problems until signing in. Yes, I am also using the google search solution to get around the problem. The thing is, as time goes on, we will find more of these sites, I am sure of it. I thought for sure the latest update would fix it, but, I was wrong! On Jun 15, 2010, at 6:11 PM, Mary Otten wrote: Hi all, I'm sad to report that, at least on my system, the bug that causes crashing when you go to audible.com by typing in the site, and the bug that causes IChat to be unusable are not fixed with the new release of sl. I have to say that I am disappointed. this has to be an easy one for them to reproduce. so many of us have experienced and reported this bug. but no fix was forthcoming in the maintenance release. mary -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: vinux 3.0 on bootcamp
You can use insirt and pageup to raise the volume. Hope this helps, Mike aim screen name: chrchmiker MSN screen name: blindgu...@gmail.com yahoo screen name: miker19882001 skype name: miker1988 twitter: http://www.twitter.com/archenemy12 facebook: http://www.facebook.com/blindguy21 On Jun 15, 2010, at 7:23 AM, Larry Skutchan wrote: How are you getting the volume level up where you can hear it. I always have to go to Ubuntu's System Settings and raise the volume there. It is fine until I reboot where it returns to such a low level that it is very difficult to hear. I suspect this should work under Boot Camp just as well if not better. On Jun 14, 2010, at 3:03 PM, chad baker wrote: Hi has anyone ever tried vinux 3.0 on bootcamp? I just downloaded it it works fine in fusion. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: vinux 3.0 on bootcamp
Don't think you can put vinux in bootcamp, I believe that's for windows only. Mike aim screen name: chrchmiker MSN screen name: blindgu...@gmail.com yahoo screen name: miker19882001 skype name: miker1988 twitter: http://www.twitter.com/archenemy12 facebook: http://www.facebook.com/blindguy21 On Jun 14, 2010, at 2:03 PM, chad baker wrote: Hi has anyone ever tried vinux 3.0 on bootcamp? I just downloaded it it works fine in fusion. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: opening applications folder in the doc
To open folders on the doc, you have to hit voshift M and select open. Kind've silly but there you go. Mike aim screen name: chrchmiker MSN screen name: blindgu...@gmail.com yahoo screen name: miker19882001 skype name: miker1988 twitter: http://www.twitter.com/archenemy12 facebook: http://www.facebook.com/blindguy21 On Jun 12, 2010, at 9:40 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: Hi, You have to interact to before using VO spacebar to open an application using the apllication browser in the finder. To not have to interact, I suggest just using command O to open an application. hth On Jun 12, 2010, at 10:33 AM, Chris Westbrook wrote: This seems like a really stupid question, but I'll ask it anyway. When I hit vo space on the applications folder on the doc, it says pressed, but nothing happens. When I do that for other items the items get opened. Am I doing something wrong? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Facebook and Safari 5?
Have thought about contacting facebook about all this, any way to contact them? Mike aim screen name: chrchmiker MSN screen name: blindgu...@gmail.com yahoo screen name: miker19882001 skype name: miker1988 twitter: http://www.twitter.com/archenemy12 facebook: http://www.facebook.com/blindguy21 On Jun 10, 2010, at 11:43 AM, Kimberly thurman wrote: I'm with you Olivia. There seems to be no consistancy with VO and the regular Facebook site. I use the Mobile site myself, but it seems to be very slow at times. Most of the time when I do a VO[ to go back a page, it seems to stall and take forever to back up a page. It would be nice to have a seemlessly functional Facebook page wouldn't it? :) On Jun 10, 2010, at 9:56 AM, Olivia Norman wrote: I can't get FB to work with safari five, but then again, I didn't like it much with safari four, either. I found the main page to be very cluttered, and not very accessible. How did you have success navigating it, eric? Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs On Jun 10, 2010, at 6:49 AM, erik burggraaf wrote: Hi, I've not had any problems with fb under safari four. If anything the experience should be richer under safari 5, but I too have been scared off by the problems. I'm hoping they come out with a 5.1 or 5.01 sometime in the next few weeks that solves some issues. By the way, how do the nightly builds of webkit stack up against safari 5? Thanks. Erik Burggraaf User support consultant, Website: http://www.erik-burggraaf.com Toll-free: 888-255-5194 On 2010-06-10, at 10:01 AM, Donna Goodin wrote: Hi all, I've held off up on upgrading to Safari 5 because of all the problems people seem to be having. But I'm wondering if anyone has tried using Facebook? I'm getting really tired of having to switch to my PC every time I want to post to Facebook. Thanks, Donna -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Where and what is Safari Reader?
It allows you to put articles on one page and makes them easier to read. Not sure if it only works on certain pages but the command is command shift r. Mike aim screen name: chrchmiker MSN screen name: blindgu...@gmail.com yahoo screen name: miker19882001 skype name: miker1988 twitter: http://www.twitter.com/archenemy12 facebook: http://www.facebook.com/blindguy21 On Jun 8, 2010, at 4:52 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: Hi folks. I've upgraded to Safari 5 and found this menu command that's dimmed and that says open reader. Ok, i think, so there's no reader to open, well how do i find where and what it is? So i go to open the help page about the reader and get the following: Help viewer couldn't open this content, what the ... So, where if anywhere could i go to install the reader and what does it do? Is it an rss reader? /Krister -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Mail not showing all messages
Hello all, I have rules set in mail that have all my lists going into there own folders. It seems that voiceover will tell me for example that there are 4 emails and it only shows 2 of them. Or 17 and it only shows 9. Is there any way to fix this? Thanks, Mike aim screen name: chrchmiker MSN screen name: blindgu...@gmail.com yahoo screen name: miker19882001 skype name: miker1988 twitter: http://www.twitter.com/archenemy12 facebook: http://www.facebook.com/blindguy21 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Mail too slow
I've seen this issue as well, and also sometimes you can't quit it without it telling you the operation can't be completed. Mike aim screen name: crhchmiker msn screen name: blindgu...@gmail.com yahoo screenname: miker19882001 skype name:miker1988 twitter:www.twitter.com/archenemy12 On Apr 23, 2010, at 10:08 AM, mani wrote: Of late, I am finding Mail to be too slow. When I bring up Mail for the first time, it takes more than 10 minutes to get all my new messages. I know it is not my wireless connection because Safari works just fine. Any ideas why? Thanks, mani -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
deleting a bootcamp partition
Hello all, I had Windows on a bootcamp partition but it got corrupted so I decided to delete it. Obviously I should have googled this but I didn't so whatever lol. I went into disk utility and choose to delete the partition. However, it just deleted the data on it and didn't restore the hard drive space. When I go into boot camp, it says that it can't format the startup disk and won't let me continue. So how do I get this empty bootcamp volume off my system so I can get this hard drive space back? Thanks, Mike aim screen name: crhchmiker msn screen name: blindgu...@gmail.com yahoo screenname: miker19882001 skype name:miker1988 twitter:www.twitter.com/archenemy12 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: no luck with audible download
Insure that open trusted files is checked in safari if your downloading that way, then it will automatically do it. MikeÎ aim screen name: crhchmiker msn screen name: blindgu...@gmail.com yahoo screenname: miker19882001 skype name:miker1988 twitter:www.twitter.com/archenemy12 On Jan 30, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Mary Otten wrote: I did manage to download a title with Itunes open. The title still went into the downloads folder and had to be added to the library via the Itunes menu. Mary -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Using the insirt key as a modifier key in vmware fusion
Hello all, I'm running windows 7 64-bit in vmware fusion with voiceover. I use system access in windows which requires a modifier key to be pressed like in jaws. I used sharpkeys to try and make this happen as the capslock key doesn't seem to work on my macbook pro. I first tried mapping the insirt key to the capslock key but still no go. It just says capslock on or whatever. Then I mapped insirt to the right windows key or the command key on this keyboard, still nothing. Was wondering how one accomplishes this so they can use jaws or other screen readers and was I doing this wrong? Thanks, Mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: newsgroups on the mac (hogwasher or unison)
I agree, nzbfiles work allot better than browzing. Mike On Nov 16, 2009, at 12:59 PM, anouk radix wrote: Hello Mike, i myself find the interface of unison hard too. I tried sabuzbd, loaded an nzb file into it but no luck. Luckily nzb files work fine in unison so THAt at least does work for me, its just the browsing in usenet groups that I have problems with now. Greetings, Anouk On Nov 16, 2009, at 5:42 PM, Mike Reiser wrote: Just getting started with it was hard for me,the interface seems non-standard and all that. An audio review or tutorial will be very helpful I must admit smiles. Thanks, Mike On Nov 14, 2009, at 10:34 AM, erik burggraaf wrote: Hum, what did you have trouple with in particular? Finding a group got me for a little bit, because the groups are all treaded, so you have to open alt to get to alt.binaries, then open alt.binaries to get to alt.binaries.sounds and so on. Adding groups to favourites got me as well, but there was a known' issue with that and some one posted a very helpfull step-by-step which you can Get from the archives if you have a second to search it up. Any other questions just ask. It's been a while since I ditched my easy news, but I stull have unison on here and might be able to answer questions. Best, erik burggraaf A+ certified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2009-11-14, at 11:04 AM, Mike Reiser wrote: I couldn't figure out unison's interface, any tips on using it would be great. Mike On Nov 14, 2009, at 9:25 AM, erik burggraaf wrote: Anouk, When I saw unison for the first time, I litterally bounded around my room with joy. Power grab and power post server ve very well under windows, but unison was just incredible. I cued up 20 or 30 gigs from the premier audiobook news group in half an hour or so, It took 2 or 3 days for it to come down at a rate of about a megabyte per second, and it was unbelieveable to see it all pouring in. Unison threads messages, so suppose you want to grab a book or an album. It could be 15 or 20 files, or it could be 5 or 600 files, but all the files will be in one thread. You just hit the button to grab the thread and you have all the files in one stroke. I don't know about this hogwasher thing, but you may as well save money and buy unison, since I don't see how anything could possibly be better. Of course, behind every good binary newsgroup reader there is a good news group service. If you are going to pay for unison, then an easy news or giganews plan shouldn't be out of the way. They have 60 or so days worth of retention, fantastic throughputs, web access, and great value for money on transferable gb's and such. I couldn't use up my 20 gb for the longest time and ended up with over 500 gb that I could download with beofre I had to cansil so I could fix my bills. Best, erik burggraaf A+ certified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2009-11-14, at 4:56 AM, anouk radix wrote: Hello, I finally wanted to get seriously into usenet for the first time (it never really was an option under windows before because hal is just too limited), unfortunately i installed the applications soon after i got sl and now they are expired. I know from other users unison will work because it is from the seem makers as transmit. But I also found another application called hogwasher. I wonder if anyone has tried it? Its more expensive then some other applications I have encountered, 50 dollars. Also I wonder how you locate your files you want to dl? I talked to some windows friends and they often use a program called ftd which gives you a list you can browse (most usenet service providers dont seem to save an extensive list of headers), or do you guys just type a search term in a nzb search engine without any browsing? Sorry, I am just a novice to this. Greetings, Anouk skype anouk.radix --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: newsgroups on the mac (hogwasher or unison)
I couldn't figure out unison's interface, any tips on using it would be great. Mike On Nov 14, 2009, at 9:25 AM, erik burggraaf wrote: Anouk, When I saw unison for the first time, I litterally bounded around my room with joy. Power grab and power post server ve very well under windows, but unison was just incredible. I cued up 20 or 30 gigs from the premier audiobook news group in half an hour or so, It took 2 or 3 days for it to come down at a rate of about a megabyte per second, and it was unbelieveable to see it all pouring in. Unison threads messages, so suppose you want to grab a book or an album. It could be 15 or 20 files, or it could be 5 or 600 files, but all the files will be in one thread. You just hit the button to grab the thread and you have all the files in one stroke. I don't know about this hogwasher thing, but you may as well save money and buy unison, since I don't see how anything could possibly be better. Of course, behind every good binary newsgroup reader there is a good news group service. If you are going to pay for unison, then an easy news or giganews plan shouldn't be out of the way. They have 60 or so days worth of retention, fantastic throughputs, web access, and great value for money on transferable gb's and such. I couldn't use up my 20 gb for the longest time and ended up with over 500 gb that I could download with beofre I had to cansil so I could fix my bills. Best, erik burggraaf A+ certified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2009-11-14, at 4:56 AM, anouk radix wrote: Hello, I finally wanted to get seriously into usenet for the first time (it never really was an option under windows before because hal is just too limited), unfortunately i installed the applications soon after i got sl and now they are expired. I know from other users unison will work because it is from the seem makers as transmit. But I also found another application called hogwasher. I wonder if anyone has tried it? Its more expensive then some other applications I have encountered, 50 dollars. Also I wonder how you locate your files you want to dl? I talked to some windows friends and they often use a program called ftd which gives you a list you can browse (most usenet service providers dont seem to save an extensive list of headers), or do you guys just type a search term in a nzb search engine without any browsing? Sorry, I am just a novice to this. Greetings, Anouk skype anouk.radix --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Jumping to beginning or end of list of e-mails
use vo shift home and end. Mike On Oct 24, 2009, at 5:16 PM, Daniel K. Gartmann wrote: Hi, I have the feeling that I'm missing the obvious here, but I can't find any mention of it on this list. How does one quickly jump to the buttom or to the top of the list of messages in Apple Mail? There sure must be a keystroke to accomplish this. Thanks so much in advance. Best regards Daniel --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Playing folders with VLC
I've managed to play folders just fine. I select the folder and press ok. Keep in mind I downloaded the intel 32-bit version instead of the universal binary, don't know if that makes a difference. Mike On Sep 26, 2009, at 9:43 AM, James Nash wrote: Hi folks, Has anyone managed to play entire folders with the latest version of VLC Media Player please and if so how? I am told that VLC cannot play my input. It always used to play anything I threw at it including folders. Thanks Take care James --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Still can't open folders within VLC
I didn't have to install anything extra, I just installed vlc on my snowlepard mac, went to the file menu and chose open, and just pressed return on the folder after brow-zing for it and then hit ok. Really not sure what's happening on your end. Mike On Sep 26, 2009, at 4:01 PM, James Nash wrote: Hi folks, Despite a list member's suggestion that I download the 32-bit version of VLC, I still cannot open folders like I could in Leopard. Do I need to install Flip4Mac for VLC to open the MP3 files? Thanks Take care James --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: VO curser suddenly skipping over one edit box on Facebook
I can confirm this, I don't even see the status edit box at all. Using snow lepard here. Mike On Sep 23, 2009, at 10:51 AM, Israel wrote: Hi everyone! I am a new member to this group. In fact, I just received my confirmation this morning. I've already learned a few tips and tricks by reading the emails I've received. I am looking forward to so much more especially since I just converted in June 2009 to Apple Mac from Windows and the third party screen reader worlds. I am running Leopard but have decided to purchase Snow Leopard later today. I am wondering if anyone else uses Facebook and whether you have run into a problem which I started having a week ago Monday. With a few exceptions, most items seem to be labeled properly on FB and I can navigate the site and my friends' walls, but suddenly, VO skips over the control edit box where I would normally type my status update. VO also skips the edit box used to post on a friend's wall. VO recognizes and takes me to all other edit boxes such as search, write something or share button A sighted friend said the site looks the same. The what's on your mind edit box is still there but he noticed VO curser gets to the link just before it and on the next press, it skips it completely to the share button Arrowing up, down, left, or right, VO curser always skips it. I can access every other edit box except that one. Again, I've been on FB for five months and this is the first time this has happened. Any ideas? Israel Antonio --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
How to use unison
Hello all, Based on recommendations, I am trying out the unison usenet newsreader. I would like some instructions on using it as the interface seems very non standard. For example in the groups view when interacting with the browser, I hear all these column and row numbers along with music, audiobooks and other things. I can only right arrow so far and can't examine the content of these categories. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
tips on using the trackpad
Hello all, I need some tips on navigating with the trackpad. I have the trackpad commander enabled and when I drag my finger arround the screen vo seems to be speaking all over the place and immits lots of different sound effects. It seems to be very sensative and I'm not sure what the best way is to proceed. I acidently muted vo a couple of times without even meaning to and would like some tips on this. I can flick just fine, it's just moving my fingers arround is where I get into trouble. Thanks, MikeÎ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ftpclients on the mac?
I'd also like to recommend filezilla which is free. It might be familiar to some formal windows users on this list but it's accessible with vo also. MikeÎ On Sep 4, 2009, at 2:32 AM, anouk radix wrote: Thanks Erik I had already dowloaded unison not knowing it was by panic. When i just browsed their site yesterdauy I could not locate unison there. Great to know that downloading binaries does work on the mac. Greetings, Anouk,On Sep 4, 2009, at 3:25 AM, hank smith wrote: hat is the website? the link that was given earlier gave stuff on mental health etc - Original Message - From: erik burggraaf e...@erik-burggraaf.com To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:39 PM Subject: Re: ftpclients on the mac? /You're going to get loads of recomendations for transmit, but I just wanted to add mine anyway, because transmit is plain awesom. Unison is amazing as well if you like binary news groups. In fact, just buy anything put out by panic software on the off chance you might need or want it one day and you won't be disappointed. Best, erik burggraaf A+ sertified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 3-Sep-09, at 9:01 AM, anouk radix wrote: Hello are there any good ftp-clients that work with voicover? With good i mean that they have to be able to que stuff and download folders. Greetings, Anouk --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: what to do to prepare for my macbook pro?
check out the guides on www.icanworkthisthing.com as well, some helpfull stuff. Mike - Original Message - From: a radix To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:16 AM Subject: what to do to prepare for my macbook pro? Hello, I know I shall read the voiceover manual and check screenless switchers because I think they have recorded their experiences while switching from windows to mac os x. Are there any other podcasts or documents from people who switched from windows to mac os x that I can read? Anything else in particular I should read or listen to while I wait for my mac to arrive? Thanks for all the help everyone, Greetings, Anouk, --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: I just did it, bought my first macbook pro
Congrads on the macbook pro, will be getting mine next month, might up the ram and definitely will up the harddrive. Mike - Original Message - From: Chris Blouch To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:46 AM Subject: Re: I just did it, bought my first macbook pro I usually recommend Applecare for laptops since they usually have a harder life than desktops. We had to send my wife's in for repairs after about a year. It kept locking up hard even after reinstalling the OS and such. Apparently some issue with the heat pipe and some other components they replaced. Anyway, they fedexed a box to our house that was just right to snuggle the laptop and then picked it up. We had it back and working 24 hours later. Very nice. CB Scott Chesworth wrote: Hey Anouk, welcome abord buddy! Just a quick message to second what Esther was saying about student discounts. Here in the UK Apple care is amazingly cheap if you're a student, it's probably a similar reduction where you are. No rush, but sometime within your first year's warranty, if you get a reduced price I'd definitely take out Apple care if you're in for the long haul with this machine. Esther, if that old Power Book of yours is antique enough to be able to boot OS9 and you ever want to sell it, give me a shout off list. Cheers Scott On 8/18/09, Esther mori...@mac.com wrote: Congratulations on the new MacBook Pro, Anouk. That sounds like a very nice model. I still have the PowerBook that was my first Mac, and which is now over 5 years old. Buying for long term future use really does work -- this machine is still running, but I finally got a new MacBook last fall to move onto the Intel platform and the larger drives and faster processors for Leopard. I do recommend that you pick up the AppleCare extended warranty later on, though. You might check whether you're eligible for student discounts with any your later software purchases, too. Also, since you will be receiving your Mac before Snow Leopard is released, you should know that you may be eligible for a reduced price update to Snow Leopard. See the terms of the hardware uptodate program: http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/ In the U.S., buyers of qualifying new Macs (or refurbished Macs from Apple's Online Store) purchased after June 8, 2009 can get the update to Snow Leopard for $9.95 plus tax instead of $29.95. I'm not sure of the details of this program applied abroad, but you may be able to read/find the information appropriate to your country from the above link. Hope to see you on list with your questions when you laptop arrives. Cheers, Esther On Aug 18, 2009, a radix wrote: Hello, I just bought my first macbook pro and I got a discount because I am a student. I choose the 15 inch with a matte display (i didnt want to do that at first but I thought it might be easier for people who would have to read something on it), i got the 7200 rpm hard drive and the 3.0ghz processor because I want to use this laptop for at least 3 years. I did not opt to upgrade the internal memory or the warranty at this time. I must say placing the order over the phone was very easy. It will take a while to arrive because according to the person on the phone the matte displays are a bit rare so it might take 1.5 week. I will be able to upgrade to the new operating system for 9 euro. I am VERY excited I can tell you all and very much looking forward to receiving my laptop. I did not opt to get any of the extra software packages with it because I want to decide on htat after receiving it. Greetings, Anouk, --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Buying from Amazon
Can you get it custom built? I'm asking cause I want to get it with 4 gigs of ram and a 500 gig drive. Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: macbook pro questions
Basically if you want good quality computers, you'll have to pay a little more for them. My only concern is with the high unemployment rate in the blind community, it's hard enough for a blind person to get a computer in general let alone the high priced screen readers. Hopefully those folks will be able to afford the mac. I'm not sure what can be done about this but I'm just expressing a concern. We all know the reasons why one should get a mac, but it just might be out of reach for some people. I'd like to see that change without hardware quality suffering if that can be done. Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Buying Macs with Apple payment plan
I was going to go for the payment plan but found it wouldn't be worth it due to the interest, wish they did something similar to boes with that. Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Article Slamming the iPhone
I personally don't take much stock in what Mosen says anymore. Before he went to FS he was a very fair and respected journalist. I think he probably is a great guy personally. However, since he works for FS, he will have a bias and an agenda which will be to promote there products and convince people that others aren't good. I do hope however that on his own time or when he leaves FS that he will retake a look at these products by Apple and others and give a fair assessment. It's kind of ashame as I listened to him on mainmenu for years and really do respect his ideas. Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Article Slamming the iPhone
I don't have an iphone yet but from what I've read, it's less tedious to serf the web with the iphone than with mobile speak, sense you can move by headings and sutch. Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
mac more sensative to lightning?
Hello all, My mac yesterday got fried by lightning as I was using it durring a storm plugged into a serge protector. It all seemed to work fine until Apple had me reset the pram to help resolve another problem and then it would not boot. Now it won't even turn on. This is the second mac mini to do this. Is the mac more sensative to power serges and/or lightning strikes than pcs? Would it get fried even plugged into a serge protector? Also, should I unplug the mac from the wall as well as turn it off durring a storm? I'm asking these things because I've used pc's durring storms and this never happened with any of them. Thanks, Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Hello
Welcome Chris, Enjoy your mac. I certainly don't regret mine and have had it for a month or so. I have a mac mini as well. Mike On Jul 4, 2009, at 2:49 PM, Barry Lipscomb wrote: Welcome Chris! I am new to this group also. I am glad you are enjoying your MAc. Barry On Jul 4, 2009, at 1:04 PM, Chris G wrote: Hello, I am a new member to this list and Hope to learn a lot about my Mac. I bought a Mac mini in the beginning of June and really like it. Thanks Chris -- Chris G cgrabowsk...@gmail.com Barry Lipscomb the...@misteraudiofreak.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: viphone list?
Haven't recieved an approval yet on my subscription, hopefully will soon. Mike On Jul 2, 2009, at 9:19 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: Hi, It is well. Regards, Alex, On 2-Jul-09, at 6:43 AM, Jane Jordan (Gmail) wrote: I hope so. I haven't heard much either. Jane From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of John Denning Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 9:39 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: viphone list? Is the viphone list alive and well? I've requested to join a few days ago and haven't heard anything yet. - JD - John Denning AIM: denni...@mac.com A+ MCSA MCSE ITILv3 And glad to be a Mac snob again! Roswell, GA Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1882 - Release Date: 1/8/2009 8:13 AM --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: my pod cast on the braille monitor review of voice over
Nice job Mike. Definitely enjoyed it like always and can't wait until podcast 9 smiles. Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Podcast about VO in Snow Leopard
Doesn't seem to be valid anymore, just saw this as my mac adapter was hit by lighning and wasn't able to check mail now using pc laptop so I can get it fixed. Wondering if you could repost? Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: syrinx fixed
Definitely glad it's finally fixed, I personally like it better than twitterific. Mike On Jun 14, 2009, at 8:16 AM, jesus hernandez wrote: hello yesterday syrinx got fixed just run check for update and there it is. jesus hernandez jessi...@bellsouth.net Skype: jessie Aim: jactac Msn: hernandez_jes...@hotmail.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Attention Syrinx users!
I've used syrinx just fine here, using 2.1 or whatever the version is. Mike On Jun 13, 2009, at 12:31 AM, Mark Baxter wrote: Twitterific still works, Syrinx doesn't seem to any more. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Attention Syrinx users!
Oh yes Josh I've noticed that it won't do it. Any other free or otherwise clients we can use until it gets updated? Is twitterific pretty intuitive like syrinx? Thanks, Mike On Jun 13, 2009, at 9:23 AM, Josh de Lioncourt wrote: On Jun 13, 2009, at 7:18 AM, Mike Reiser wrote: I've used syrinx just fine here, using 2.1 or whatever the version is. Mike Unfortunately, it's true. As of yesterday afternoon, Syrinx fell prey to what they are calling the Twitpocolypse, and will not download new tweets properly until it is updated. Josh de Lioncourt …my other mail provider is an owl… Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt Music: http://stage19music.com Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: mac voiceover in braille monitor
I agree, the welcome dialog will have an option to show at startup or not, there could also be an option to show help message at startup or something. My hope is that these help instructions will be put into the welcome screen. Mike On Jun 12, 2009, at 5:08 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: Hmm, let's see if i can formulate this so that it makes sence... I think that you have some valid points in what you're saying, however that info in the beginning about how to get help should, imho be optional, that is if it was there, you should be able to turn it on and off. I for one would be half crazy if i was to hear that info every time, even if i knew how to silence it with the ctrl key. However, for newbies, this info would be helpful. /Krister 12 jun 2009 kl. 04.40 skrev Mike Reiser: I was confused about the editing thing as well at first but am doing much better now I think. I still goof up sometimes but oh well. This guy obviously did not read the vo manual as I looked at it today and it's very detailed in going over the desktop orientation and all that. They don't describe how to quit apps and itunes isn't mentioned accept a little bit but otherwise it is very well written. I'm a bit concerned about Apple's documentation that comes with mac, and I think the tutorial should be more interactive in the sense that someone should demonstrate basic tasks while the person follows along. I feel they should cover basic tasks like using finder, serfing the web, sending email, word processing, and itunes, maybe one or two more things. They should also enclude the vo manual with mac and maybe give a short prompt when vo starts to press a key to read help and maybe brief instructions on how to read it. I'm really not sure if this would be too much info or not, however. They will have a welcome dialog in snowlepard, so this is a good step. Mike On Jun 11, 2009, at 4:59 PM, kaare dehard wrote: Interesting, so I'll explore my own journey with you. My first talking computer ironicly was an apple ii e. My second was a dos machine. Neither of these gave me much trouble. Windows was my next stop, and with no prejudgement I worked for a week before I got myself grounded. Windows 95 98 and xp as well. I then moved on to voiceover for both financial and technical reasons. It took only 2 or 3 days to get my feet, but I couldn't tell you if it was easier to learn, or if my difficulties with jaws and window-eyes were merely experience not understanding differences between cli and gui. Editing with the mac gave me more problems than with windows but that was before someone explained the differences in how the cursors were handled. This is not a reporting error, as sugestive in the article but a different method of cursor tracking and usage. If this fellow writing Was truly interested in understanding the differences and giving the program a fair crack, it would have been just as easy for him to take advantage of the good help available on this list:). On 11-Jun-09, at 9:20 AM, Dean Wilcox wrote: When you first started to use Windows were you new to computers? I mean you didn't use Lunux or an older flavour of Mac before hand? I'm asking as I wonder if you found the Mac quicker to learn because you had a better grasp of computers in general when you started with the Mac, something you may not have had when you started to use Windows. I'm not suggesting the Mac isn't easier to learn but I may have a valid point also. At 01:04 11/06/2009, you wrote: You know what was so funny to me is I have been using the Mac since 2005 and quite honestly there was a learning curve, but it took me considerably less time to get up to speed on the Mac than it did for me to master Windows and Window-Eyes. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the experience of the Mac and VoiceOver are so closely related, where the experience of the windows environement and the screen reader are not going to be the same. I guess the best way to say it is the screen reader does present things a little different than what a sighted user may experience and VO more closely represents the experience a sighted user gets. Hmmm, hope that made sense. :) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.50/2150 - Release Date: 06/02/09 06:47:00 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: mac voiceover in braille monitor
Like I said I'm not sure what the right solution is. I think there should at least be a basic tutorial that covers the use of vo with the finder maybe and other things. Again I really don't know how this will be balanced or solved. Mike On Jun 12, 2009, at 7:42 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: I totally agree. I think the VO quick start that exists in Leopard is enough, because it shows you how to navigate all kinds of controls, which in the end are the ones you find all over OS X and most applications. So what's wrong with it? Personally I found it very useful, along with the keyboard help feature. When I first started using a Mac, I could do pretty much everything after a couple of hours working on it. I mean I don't think more documentation would hurt, but I would rather let those people work on actual features than putting them to write documentation... On Jun 12, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Scott Howell wrote: I think what is important is you learn how to navigate with VO and then learn the applications as would any other user regardless of their ability or disability. I may be recalling incorrectly since it has been years since I bothered reading the manual for Window-EYes, but I think generally it instructed me on how to use WE and not on how to use all the applications. Now it is possible because the keys required for WE possibly change some behavior of an app, they might have touched on the differences, but gee you know I couldn't tell you what impact the windows-based screen reader has on the windows experience. :) I understand some of what you are saying, but yet once you learn VO, you'll learn the apps very quickly. I started off when VO was really new, so I really had to read what info I could find and learn from there. You know it wasn't to bad and really hey when you think about it, a number of people have produced tutorials on how to use this or that screen reader and this or that application, sold them, and made money. You can do the same thing as well. Wait, maybe I should be doing that. :) On Jun 11, 2009, at 10:40 PM, Mike Reiser wrote: I was confused about the editing thing as well at first but am doing much better now I think. I still goof up sometimes but oh well. This guy obviously did not read the vo manual as I looked at it today and it's very detailed in going over the desktop orientation and all that. They don't describe how to quit apps and itunes isn't mentioned accept a little bit but otherwise it is very well written. I'm a bit concerned about Apple's documentation that comes with mac, and I think the tutorial should be more interactive in the sense that someone should demonstrate basic tasks while the person follows along. I feel they should cover basic tasks like using finder, serfing the web, sending email, word processing, and itunes, maybe one or two more things. They should also enclude the vo manual with mac and maybe give a short prompt when vo starts to press a key to read help and maybe brief instructions on how to read it. I'm really not sure if this would be too much info or not, however. They will have a welcome dialog in snowlepard, so this is a good step. Mike On Jun 11, 2009, at 4:59 PM, kaare dehard wrote: Interesting, so I'll explore my own journey with you. My first talking computer ironicly was an apple ii e. My second was a dos machine. Neither of these gave me much trouble. Windows was my next stop, and with no prejudgement I worked for a week before I got myself grounded. Windows 95 98 and xp as well. I then moved on to voiceover for both financial and technical reasons. It took only 2 or 3 days to get my feet, but I couldn't tell you if it was easier to learn, or if my difficulties with jaws and window-eyes were merely experience not understanding differences between cli and gui. Editing with the mac gave me more problems than with windows but that was before someone explained the differences in how the cursors were handled. This is not a reporting error, as sugestive in the article but a different method of cursor tracking and usage. If this fellow writing Was truly interested in understanding the differences and giving the program a fair crack, it would have been just as easy for him to take advantage of the good help available on this list:). On 11-Jun-09, at 9:20 AM, Dean Wilcox wrote: When you first started to use Windows were you new to computers? I mean you didn't use Lunux or an older flavour of Mac before hand? I'm asking as I wonder if you found the Mac quicker to learn because you had a better grasp of computers in general when you started with the Mac, something you may not have had when you started to use Windows. I'm not suggesting the Mac isn't easier to learn but I may have a valid point also. At 01:04 11/06/2009, you wrote: You know what was so funny to me is I have been using the Mac since 2005 and quite
Re: New IPhone 3GS list regarding accessibility
I don't have a problem with a seperate iphone list. I can see where both sides are comeing from, but I don't have a problem either way. Mike On Jun 12, 2009, at 7:50 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: I think it's a good idea. Not everyone that owns a Mac necessarily wants to know about the iPhone, and vice versa. In my case I just send everything from vo-bs, macvoiceover and macvisionaries to the same mailbox using a rule, so many times I don't even pay attention to the list I'm reading. So the iPhone list will probably go to that mailbox too. This works great for me. On Jun 12, 2009, at 6:28 PM, Justin Harford wrote: HiI would like to see a separate list for iphone discussions. Regards Justin Harford On Jun 12, 2009, at 1:47 PM, Cara Quinn wrote: Hello All; I've just started a list called VIPhone, (Visually Impaired - IPhone) on GoogleGroups to discuss the new Apple IPhone 3GS. the url is: http://groups.google.com/group/VIPhone Please feel free to share this url anywhere you like, to anyone you feel might want to discuss this sort of thing. The list is both for those of us whom are early-adopters, as well as for anyone whom may have questions / political views etc on the new IPhone. As far as list etiquette goes, as far as I'm concerned, the list will reflect the character of its members. smile -You want flame wars, fine, have them! -Want a friendly, welcoming, well-informed list, then wonderful! You've got that! You'll have the list you create! If there's something drastic, and I need to step in as mod, then be assured, I will; other than that, -Be the list you want… Enjoy and let's explore the IPhone together!… Smiles, Cara :) --- Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Vo doesn't read text under some radio buttons
Thanks figured it out, it was a little confusing as there were two save as items in the neu but I figured it out. Mike On Jun 10, 2009, at 7:54 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: Hi, To do this, press CM + S and then tab to Save. Regards, Alex, On 10-Jun-09, at 5:48 AM, Ryan Dour wrote: Hello, You may actually want to save the page as a web archive, zip it, and send that instead. A screen capture can't be navigated by VO in the same way a web archive can be. Web archives preserve the page including code exactly. THe code may not function, but the page will read the same. THis would give the accessibility team the opportunity to investigate the exact code issue. Ryan On Jun 9, 2009, at 5:10 PM, Michael Reiser wrote: Hello all, Just wanted to report that vo doesn't seem to read text under some radio buttons. An example of this is my school. They use a thing called desire to learn. I just went to go take a quiz for class, but all vo says for the choices is 1 radio button, 2 radio button, 3 radio button. It worked in safari 3, and on windows with nvda and other readers it works just fine. I sent an email to apple accessibility with a screenshot with no response yet. Hope this gets fixed soon as I won't beable to do my quizes this way. Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: itunes podcast questions
Yep I goofed and didn't read the intire thing so used to top posting smiles. Mike On Jun 11, 2009, at 12:52 AM, Anne Robertson wrote: Hello Mike, The whole message is there. I interposted with your questions. Cheers, Anne On Jun 11, 2009, at 4:54 AM, Mike Reiser wrote: I'm afraid the rest of your message didn't get through. Thanks, Mike On Jun 10, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Anne Robertson wrote: Hello Mike, On Jun 10, 2009, at 10:04 PM, Mike Reiser wrote: When I finish listening to an episode, is it safe to use command delete to delete it? That won't work. Make sure you're interacting with the Songs list, place yourself somewhere on the episode you want to delete and press VO-Shift-m to get a contextual menu. You'll find Delete in there. Press Return on Delete, and you will be asked if you're sure you want to remove it from your iTunes library. Click on Remove and you'll be asked do you want to move the selected podcast to the trash or keep it in the iTunes music folder? You can then decide either to keep it or put it in the trash. Will it download new ones automatically? Yes. Also, how do I unsubscribe from a podcast if I'm not interested in it anymore? Use the same contextual menu as for Delete. Cheers, Anne --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: mac voiceover in braille monitor
I was confused about the editing thing as well at first but am doing much better now I think. I still goof up sometimes but oh well. This guy obviously did not read the vo manual as I looked at it today and it's very detailed in going over the desktop orientation and all that. They don't describe how to quit apps and itunes isn't mentioned accept a little bit but otherwise it is very well written. I'm a bit concerned about Apple's documentation that comes with mac, and I think the tutorial should be more interactive in the sense that someone should demonstrate basic tasks while the person follows along. I feel they should cover basic tasks like using finder, serfing the web, sending email, word processing, and itunes, maybe one or two more things. They should also enclude the vo manual with mac and maybe give a short prompt when vo starts to press a key to read help and maybe brief instructions on how to read it. I'm really not sure if this would be too much info or not, however. They will have a welcome dialog in snowlepard, so this is a good step. Mike On Jun 11, 2009, at 4:59 PM, kaare dehard wrote: Interesting, so I'll explore my own journey with you. My first talking computer ironicly was an apple ii e. My second was a dos machine. Neither of these gave me much trouble. Windows was my next stop, and with no prejudgement I worked for a week before I got myself grounded. Windows 95 98 and xp as well. I then moved on to voiceover for both financial and technical reasons. It took only 2 or 3 days to get my feet, but I couldn't tell you if it was easier to learn, or if my difficulties with jaws and window-eyes were merely experience not understanding differences between cli and gui. Editing with the mac gave me more problems than with windows but that was before someone explained the differences in how the cursors were handled. This is not a reporting error, as sugestive in the article but a different method of cursor tracking and usage. If this fellow writing Was truly interested in understanding the differences and giving the program a fair crack, it would have been just as easy for him to take advantage of the good help available on this list:). On 11-Jun-09, at 9:20 AM, Dean Wilcox wrote: When you first started to use Windows were you new to computers? I mean you didn't use Lunux or an older flavour of Mac before hand? I'm asking as I wonder if you found the Mac quicker to learn because you had a better grasp of computers in general when you started with the Mac, something you may not have had when you started to use Windows. I'm not suggesting the Mac isn't easier to learn but I may have a valid point also. At 01:04 11/06/2009, you wrote: You know what was so funny to me is I have been using the Mac since 2005 and quite honestly there was a learning curve, but it took me considerably less time to get up to speed on the Mac than it did for me to master Windows and Window-Eyes. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the experience of the Mac and VoiceOver are so closely related, where the experience of the windows environement and the screen reader are not going to be the same. I guess the best way to say it is the screen reader does present things a little different than what a sighted user may experience and VO more closely represents the experience a sighted user gets. Hmmm, hope that made sense. :) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.50/2150 - Release Date: 06/02/09 06:47:00 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Safari VS Webkit explanation
In theory I'm going to guess that chrome will be accessible too sense it's written with webkit? Mike On Jun 11, 2009, at 5:10 PM, Brett Campbell wrote: This explanation helps. Thank you. Brett On Jun 11, 2009, at 8:34 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote: Hi, Safari 3/4 are just the GUI which Apple places on top of Webkit. Think of Safari as the container you put food in when you go to a fancy container. YOu may add a Microwave feature to the container, etc. But if you leave food in it for a long time it won't taste quite as good as the latest trend in gormé cooking. Webkit is the powering engine of Safari and Google Chrome. It is like the food inside the container. Updating nightly Webkits and using Webkit VS Safari allows you to have the latest features in something that looks just like Safari. Now I am hungry and I must go eat. Regards, Alex, --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: mac voiceover in braille monitor
I definitely agree. I think enough blind people will continue to look at mac to make it still a viable option. MikeOn Jun 10, 2009, at 1:04 AM, Mark Baxter wrote: This is typical NFB. Prey on an already oppressed popularion with scare tactics about what *COULD* go wrong and how helpless they'd be unless trhey do things the NFB way. It's why I have very little to do with organized groups of blind people. Don't feel bad; I also scoff at organized religion in favor of individual spirituality, and hate Christmas because of shopping mobs and humans in packs. Don't beieve what the NFB tells you; they're just anothe organization with another marketing angle. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: mac voiceover in braille monitor
That's great. Let me just say I did not intend any offense with my comment on the older/younger thing. My apologeez if any offense was taken. Mike On Jun 10, 2009, at 2:16 AM, Jenny Kennedy wrote: I don't know who would be counted in the young group and who in the old. I first heard rumblings that the Mac was accessable in late 2007.I was 30 then and am 32 now, got my Mac when I was 31. So not sure where I fit, young or old or whatever... My story was this. My windows computer was on it's last legs and we knew that I had to get a new one. At first we thought about getting a low cost windows laptop. Then they came out with vista. My partner Larry at first didn't want to drop so much money all at once on a computer. But I sat down and did a lot of research. Listened to screenless switchers, joined this list, listened to everything ACB radio had to say found other podcasts and after that I priced out how much would it be to get a laptop with windows and a copy of JAWS. Then I priced out the ongoing costs, upgrades to the OS and JAWS and other things. I gathered everything I learned and presented it to Larry. I think after all was said and done that the Mac, while expensive at first more or less payed for it's self in the money I saved as it had a built in screen access and screen enlargement, plus the most I'd think of paying for os/A/T upgrades with the mac at tops would be 150 bucks compaired to havint to spend 200 a year ontop of the nearly 1000 starting price for a windows screen reader. Just after we took the choice to get the Mac I got a chance to try vista as I barrowed my stepdaughter's new vista computer. I tried timed demos of JAWS and W.E. and the free screen readers and was so grumpy with the whole thing. Larry got to see first hand what a pain in the neck it all was and I even got him to listen to some of the mac demos. He said we got the mac because it has what I need and seems to be a better computer for me. I haven't crashed it yet and aside from a few structure problems with the macbook, like little shards of it coming apart where the lid shuts and the recent shorting out of the option key I have had no trouble with it. I think people can take the choice if they find themselves where I was. In need of a computer and free and open to anything. I'm a stay at home mom so don't have to worry about my mac interfacing with other computers I like my choice and am glad I took the time to learn all I could rather than just following a mass of people one way or the other. Jenny blueskyes9112...@gmail.com Olathe, Ks USA On 6/10/09, Mark Baxter markbaxte...@gmail.com wrote: This is typical NFB. Prey on an already oppressed popularion with scare tactics about what *COULD* go wrong and how helpless they'd be unless trhey do things the NFB way. It's why I have very little to do with organized groups of blind people. Don't feel bad; I also scoff at organized religion in favor of individual spirituality, and hate Christmas because of shopping mobs and humans in packs. Don't beieve what the NFB tells you; they're just anothe organization with another marketing angle. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: mac voiceover in braille monitor
That's just my interpritation on it, I have no prough either way but that's how it feels. Mike On Jun 10, 2009, at 2:46 AM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: Oh, so that's what it is...! On Jun 9, 2009, at 11:03 PM, Michael Reiser wrote: They have FS and other companies in there pockets, so they have to discredit someone else. Mike On Jun 9, 2009, at 9:54 PM, James Dietz wrote: Nearly everything they point out is negative. It's almost as if they're deliberately skipping over what the screenreader does well so that they can get right to the bad stuff. My favorite has to be the section where they discuss using voiceover with the internet - while there are some legitimate problems with group mode and ajax pages (which I would've agreed with if they'd been mentioned), it does present info in a logical form to me anyway. That's subjective, but they they go on to say that commands to move between different elements of a page were not readily apparent and had to be learned. Commands need to be learned for every program, including JAWS and Window-Eyes. Yeesh! They also mentioned the fact that vo+arrowing through elements was tedius. This is tricky, but that's pretty much how JFW handles it - with the exception that you can pgdn through a page to skip bigger chunks. They didn't mention that, so not sure if they're being entirely fair. The article raised some good points - training would help explain things like the infamous double-sided cursor (which they didn't quite realize existed - for the record VO was not mis-speaking characters) and use of the mac itself in combination with voiceover. Once Apple can sell a mac to blind users with some vo-specific training, they might be able to tap into the market a little better. Of course it's doubtful they will actually do this - blind services buy computers and software for working blind people. That means Microsoft Windows and JAWS (or window-eyes I guess) because that's what workplaces use. Apple seems to have accepted and embraced it's market position as the cool slick do-it-all magic box for home users. On 6/9/09, Mike Arrigo n0...@charter.net wrote: The biggest problem with this article I think is that they are comparing voice over too much to windows screen readers. While I like to compare some things about the mac to elements in windows such as the finder to explorer, and the doc to the windows task bar and quick launch, they did this review with way too much expectation for voice over and the mac to behave like windows. - Original Message - From: Michael Reiser To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 6:40 PM Subject: mac voiceover in braille monitor Just thought I'd share this with everyone. The nfb featured vo in the june 2009 issue of the braille monitor. While I agree with some of the concerns here, I disaggree with quite a few especially that vo should just read everything automatically. Ironic that many of the concerns put forth will be addressed in snow lepard. Would love toÎ hear everyone else's take on this. I'll paste the article here for easy reading. Braille Monitor June 2009 (back) (contents) (next) Report on the Ease of Access of the Apple OS 10.5 Leopard Environment with VoiceOver by Wesley Majerus From the Editor: Almost as long as computers have dominated the lives of many Americans, some people have praised the Apple products with a fervor verging on the religious. The operating system has always been more visually intuitive than that of the PC, and manipulating graphics on Apple products is apparently both easy and satisfying. But since the Apple IIe in the early days, which seems to have incorporated some speech access, Apple products have been remarkably inaccessible to blind users. Now for the first time the Apple Macintosh operating system has been equipped with VoiceOver, which provides more speech access than blind people have ever had on Apple products. But how good is it? How efficient is the speech? Does the blind user have access to every computer function? International Braille and Technology Center Access Technology Specialist Wesley Majerus set out to put the Mac and VoiceOver through their paces. Here is his report: Apple's Macintosh computer is one of the only systems to have integrated, full-function screen-access software. Because it is a part of the operating system, it is usable out of the box and on the showroom floor. You can simply walk up to any Macintosh computer running OS 10.5 Leopard and press Command (CMD)+F5 to try out the screen-access software. In this article I outline some of my impressions of VoiceOver after the weeklong evaluation I recently undertook. Throughout this document reference will be made to VO keys or to pressing VO with other keys. These references are to the VoiceOver keys, which are CTRL+Option
Re: mac voiceover in braille monitor
We could also suggest that apple put the basic keyboard commands and basics on using the mac in the tutorial. Would this be sent to Apple accessibility? Mike On Jun 10, 2009, at 8:08 AM, kaare dehard wrote: What we have is an opportunity to point out the few negatives that matter to apple such as mixing the commandsets together from osx and vo, real good stuff to look at, but the rest of it is pretty much a statement of praising windows os and the way that those screen readers handle things. That's nice if you have a tech department to help you get things back up on the ever too rare occasion when windows crashes and needs a format:) However the poor journalism and the lack of objectivity in this report lower the respect level for both the individual writing it and the publication responsible for permitting such tripe to be featured within it's pages. On 10-Jun-09, at 1:54 AM, Michael Reiser wrote: I agree with everything said. Mac popularity has grown despite access world which buy the way did write a very nice review of lepard last September. I don't think blind people will just go buy that as a facter. I really think the younger blind crowd will embrace mac more and the older ones will follow after. As for me I love my mac and will not go back to windows. Mike On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:08 PM, James Dietz wrote: Really? I know FS is one of the key sponsers of the convention, but does that really mean they have an agenda? I can almost believe it, as like I said it really wasn't so much a debate of pros and cons as it was a list of cons. I don't want to help escolate this into a flame war, but I am curious to know if what people have said about blindness organizations and blind-specific tech and other companies is really true. In a perfect world they'd just want what would be best for the blind user, and I don't see how anyone could argue with mainstream screenreading action. If it's not a quality product or hasn't matured much (like Microsoft's narrator) then a complaint is justified. On 6/9/09, Michael Reiser blindgu...@gmail.com wrote: They have FS and other companies in there pockets, so they have to discredit someone else. Mike On Jun 9, 2009, at 9:54 PM, James Dietz wrote: Nearly everything they point out is negative. It's almost as if they're deliberately skipping over what the screenreader does well so that they can get right to the bad stuff. My favorite has to be the section where they discuss using voiceover with the internet - while there are some legitimate problems with group mode and ajax pages (which I would've agreed with if they'd been mentioned), it does present info in a logical form to me anyway. That's subjective, but they they go on to say that commands to move between different elements of a page were not readily apparent and had to be learned. Commands need to be learned for every program, including JAWS and Window-Eyes. Yeesh! They also mentioned the fact that vo+arrowing through elements was tedius. This is tricky, but that's pretty much how JFW handles it - with the exception that you can pgdn through a page to skip bigger chunks. They didn't mention that, so not sure if they're being entirely fair. The article raised some good points - training would help explain things like the infamous double-sided cursor (which they didn't quite realize existed - for the record VO was not mis-speaking characters) and use of the mac itself in combination with voiceover. Once Apple can sell a mac to blind users with some vo-specific training, they might be able to tap into the market a little better. Of course it's doubtful they will actually do this - blind services buy computers and software for working blind people. That means Microsoft Windows and JAWS (or window-eyes I guess) because that's what workplaces use. Apple seems to have accepted and embraced it's market position as the cool slick do-it-all magic box for home users. On 6/9/09, Mike Arrigo n0...@charter.net wrote: The biggest problem with this article I think is that they are comparing voice over too much to windows screen readers. While I like to compare some things about the mac to elements in windows such as the finder to explorer, and the doc to the windows task bar and quick launch, they did this review with way too much expectation for voice over and the mac to behave like windows. - Original Message - From: Michael Reiser To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 6:40 PM Subject: mac voiceover in braille monitor Just thought I'd share this with everyone. The nfb featured vo in the june 2009 issue of the braille monitor. While I agree with some of the concerns here, I disaggree with quite a few especially that vo should just read everything automatically. Ironic that many of the concerns put forth will be addressed in snow lepard. Would
Re: Vo doesn't read text under some radio buttons
Thanks, I'll see if I can find it in the menus. On Jun 10, 2009, at 7:48 AM, Ryan Dour wrote: Hello, You may actually want to save the page as a web archive, zip it, and send that instead. A screen capture can't be navigated by VO in the same way a web archive can be. Web archives preserve the page including code exactly. THe code may not function, but the page will read the same. THis would give the accessibility team the opportunity to investigate the exact code issue. Ryan On Jun 9, 2009, at 5:10 PM, Michael Reiser wrote: Hello all, Just wanted to report that vo doesn't seem to read text under some radio buttons. An example of this is my school. They use a thing called desire to learn. I just went to go take a quiz for class, but all vo says for the choices is 1 radio button, 2 radio button, 3 radio button. It worked in safari 3, and on windows with nvda and other readers it works just fine. I sent an email to apple accessibility with a screenshot with no response yet. Hope this gets fixed soon as I won't beable to do my quizes this way. Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: mac voiceover in braille monitor
There is a vo users's guide on the apple site. It's in pdf, braille, and in other formats I believe. Mike On Jun 10, 2009, at 9:52 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: Is there actually a manual made for VO? I should ofcourse know, but i'm not sure if it's only this getting started thingy. There should absolutely be a chapter about how the Os looks and a bit about the shortcut keys of the os. /Krister 10 jun 2009 kl. 16.48 skrev Mike Reiser: We could also suggest that apple put the basic keyboard commands and basics on using the mac in the tutorial. Would this be sent to Apple accessibility? Mike On Jun 10, 2009, at 8:08 AM, kaare dehard wrote: What we have is an opportunity to point out the few negatives that matter to apple such as mixing the commandsets together from osx and vo, real good stuff to look at, but the rest of it is pretty much a statement of praising windows os and the way that those screen readers handle things. That's nice if you have a tech department to help you get things back up on the ever too rare occasion when windows crashes and needs a format:) However the poor journalism and the lack of objectivity in this report lower the respect level for both the individual writing it and the publication responsible for permitting such tripe to be featured within it's pages. On 10-Jun-09, at 1:54 AM, Michael Reiser wrote: I agree with everything said. Mac popularity has grown despite access world which buy the way did write a very nice review of lepard last September. I don't think blind people will just go buy that as a facter. I really think the younger blind crowd will embrace mac more and the older ones will follow after. As for me I love my mac and will not go back to windows. Mike On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:08 PM, James Dietz wrote: Really? I know FS is one of the key sponsers of the convention, but does that really mean they have an agenda? I can almost believe it, as like I said it really wasn't so much a debate of pros and cons as it was a list of cons. I don't want to help escolate this into a flame war, but I am curious to know if what people have said about blindness organizations and blind-specific tech and other companies is really true. In a perfect world they'd just want what would be best for the blind user, and I don't see how anyone could argue with mainstream screenreading action. If it's not a quality product or hasn't matured much (like Microsoft's narrator) then a complaint is justified. On 6/9/09, Michael Reiser blindgu...@gmail.com wrote: They have FS and other companies in there pockets, so they have to discredit someone else. Mike On Jun 9, 2009, at 9:54 PM, James Dietz wrote: Nearly everything they point out is negative. It's almost as if they're deliberately skipping over what the screenreader does well so that they can get right to the bad stuff. My favorite has to be the section where they discuss using voiceover with the internet - while there are some legitimate problems with group mode and ajax pages (which I would've agreed with if they'd been mentioned), it does present info in a logical form to me anyway. That's subjective, but they they go on to say that commands to move between different elements of a page were not readily apparent and had to be learned. Commands need to be learned for every program, including JAWS and Window-Eyes. Yeesh! They also mentioned the fact that vo +arrowing through elements was tedius. This is tricky, but that's pretty much how JFW handles it - with the exception that you can pgdn through a page to skip bigger chunks. They didn't mention that, so not sure if they're being entirely fair. The article raised some good points - training would help explain things like the infamous double- sided cursor (which they didn't quite realize existed - for the record VO was not mis-speaking characters) and use of the mac itself in combination with voiceover. Once Apple can sell a mac to blind users with some vo-specific training, they might be able to tap into the market a little better. Of course it's doubtful they will actually do this - blind services buy computers and software for working blind people. That means Microsoft Windows and JAWS (or window-eyes I guess) because that's what workplaces use. Apple seems to have accepted and embraced it's market position as the cool slick do-it-all magic box for home users. On 6/9/09, Mike Arrigo n0...@charter.net wrote: The biggest problem with this article I think is that they are comparing voice over too much to windows screen readers. While I like to compare some things about the mac to elements in windows such as the finder to explorer, and the doc to the windows task bar and quick launch, they did this review with way too much expectation for voice over and the mac to behave like windows. - Original Message - From
Re: itunes podcast questions
I'm afraid the rest of your message didn't get through. Thanks, Mike On Jun 10, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Anne Robertson wrote: Hello Mike, On Jun 10, 2009, at 10:04 PM, Mike Reiser wrote: When I finish listening to an episode, is it safe to use command delete to delete it? That won't work. Make sure you're interacting with the Songs list, place yourself somewhere on the episode you want to delete and press VO-Shift-m to get a contextual menu. You'll find Delete in there. Press Return on Delete, and you will be asked if you're sure you want to remove it from your iTunes library. Click on Remove and you'll be asked do you want to move the selected podcast to the trash or keep it in the iTunes music folder? You can then decide either to keep it or put it in the trash. Will it download new ones automatically? Yes. Also, how do I unsubscribe from a podcast if I'm not interested in it anymore? Use the same contextual menu as for Delete. Cheers, Anne --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: automatic updates
On 6/2/2009 2:39 PM, Esther wrote: Hi Mike, Congratulations on your new Mac Mini. You asked about automatic updates. Under your Apple menu there is an option named Software Update. VO-M to the Apple menu on the menu bar, arrow down to this option, and press return. It will run a check for new software. If you bring up its preferences menu (Command-comma), the first tab, which is Scheduled Check, has a button to Check Now, information on when the last software update was run, and checkboxes for Check for updates (with a pop up button for weekly, daily, or monthly) and for Download important updates automatically. The second tab, Installed Updates, has a table of the date, name, and version number of your installed updates. Incidentally, if you are not planning to connect a monitor to your Mac Mini, you should be aware that you may see slower performance, because apparently some system processes check whether a monitor or other video display device is attached. There is a fix for this if you attach a video adapter connector to the Mini. This is the kind of connector that attaches to a television -- not a monitor. When you use a monitor connector the Mini can tell that there isn't a live monitor connected to the other end; with the video connector there's no such feedback. People using earlier model Intel Mac Minis without a monitor solved this issue by buying the Apple DVI to Video Adapter -- a $19 connector. If you have the latest Mac Mini, they've changed the connector plug from DVI to mini-DVI, so you would presumably need the Apple Mini-DVI to Video Adapter to solve performance issues if you don't plan to connect a monitor to your Mini: http://store.apple.com/us/product/M9319G/A However, we haven't had anybody on list talk about owning the newest model Mac Mini yetsmile. You can read James' recent post about Slow Mac Mini to read about the symptoms: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries%40googlegroups.com/msg02102.html I believe all these problems have now gone away with his purchase of the Apple DVI to Video Adapter. HTH Cheers, Esther On Jun 2, 2009, at 5:45 AM, Mike Reiser wrote Hello all, First of all I just wanted to report that my mac mini is now ordered. The apple support person was very nice and helpfull, though he didn't know spacifics on voiceover and didn't know for example that MS office isn't accessible on the mac as he asked me if I needed it. On tutorials that I've heard you can enable automatic updates for mac. I'm just wondering how if vo tells you if an update is available and if it's being installed? Thanks, Mike I will try to connect my monitor just to be safe. When you enable the automatic update check will voiceover read it when it does the scheduled check? I have a flat screen monitor so I wonder if it's supported or not? Thanks, Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
automatic updates
Hello all, First of all I just wanted to report that my mac mini is now ordered. The apple support person was very nice and helpfull, though he didn't know spacifics on voiceover and didn't know for example that MS office isn't accessible on the mac as he asked me if I needed it. On tutorials that I've heard you can enable automatic updates for mac. I'm just wondering how if vo tells you if an update is available and if it's being installed? Thanks, Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Setting up a pc keyboard on a mac mini
On 6/1/2009 4:53 PM, Scott Howell wrote: Surely that can't be the case. I purchased mine from the Apple store in New Jersey. Did you look at the wired or wireless keyboard? The bluetooth wireless keyboard is $79 from Best Buy and I'm sure that is the same price from the Apple store. THe wired keyboard is $49.95 or $50 from either place. So, not sure, but I know it was not $100. On Jun 1, 2009, at 3:56 PM, Mike Reiser wrote: On 6/1/2009 7:00 AM, Scott Howell wrote: Mike I am not sure of the key sequence, but if you could spring for the Mac keyboard, I think you would be very pleased with your switch. I have never found a PC keyboard that is of the quality and comfort of the new Mac aluminum keyboards and I've used a lot of keyboards in my time. It was the best $50 I ever spent on a keyboard and I suspect I'll get many years of use from this keyboard. Good luck with whatever you choose and welcome to the wonderful world of Mac. :) On May 31, 2009, at 11:20 PM, Mike Reiser wrote: Hello all, Tomorrow I will be ordering my first mac, a mac mini. I'm getting the one with the 320 gig harddrive and am going to get it with 4 gigs of ram. When it comes and I hook my current keyboard up to it, I've heard that I will need to press some keys so that it can recognize it. Some have said that vo will not read this. Is there a way to do this with vo or will I need sighted help for this? Thanks and can't wait to be a full member of the blind mac community. Mike Where did you get the apple keyboard from? When I tried to order it with it it would be 100 dollars from apple. Mike This was just when I was getting the mini. Both keyboards are 50 dollars from apple. Not sure which one to get lol. Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Setting up a pc keyboard on a mac mini
On 6/1/2009 7:00 AM, Scott Howell wrote: Mike I am not sure of the key sequence, but if you could spring for the Mac keyboard, I think you would be very pleased with your switch. I have never found a PC keyboard that is of the quality and comfort of the new Mac aluminum keyboards and I've used a lot of keyboards in my time. It was the best $50 I ever spent on a keyboard and I suspect I'll get many years of use from this keyboard. Good luck with whatever you choose and welcome to the wonderful world of Mac. :) On May 31, 2009, at 11:20 PM, Mike Reiser wrote: Hello all, Tomorrow I will be ordering my first mac, a mac mini. I'm getting the one with the 320 gig harddrive and am going to get it with 4 gigs of ram. When it comes and I hook my current keyboard up to it, I've heard that I will need to press some keys so that it can recognize it. Some have said that vo will not read this. Is there a way to do this with vo or will I need sighted help for this? Thanks and can't wait to be a full member of the blind mac community. Mike Where did you get the apple keyboard from? When I tried to order it with it it would be 100 dollars from apple. Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Setting up a pc keyboard on a mac mini
On 6/1/2009 11:21 AM, Ben King wrote: Dear Mike, Welcome to the Mac Community. We are glad to have you! There are some podcasts that you should take a look at. The Screenlessswitchers podcast, Lioncourt.com where you can find the new Mac round table podcast and the Mac Review Cast. I hope things are going well. Blessings, Ben King On May 31, 2009, at 8:20 PM, Mike Reiser wrote: Hello all, Tomorrow I will be ordering my first mac, a mac mini. I'm getting the one with the 320 gig harddrive and am going to get it with 4 gigs of ram. When it comes and I hook my current keyboard up to it, I've heard that I will need to press some keys so that it can recognize it. Some have said that vo will not read this. Is there a way to do this with vo or will I need sighted help for this? Thanks and can't wait to be a full member of the blind mac community. Mike I listened to some of the screenless switchers ones and lioncourt, also the stuff on blindcooltech from Mike arigo. What is the mac review podcast? Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Setting up a pc keyboard on a mac mini
Hello all, Tomorrow I will be ordering my first mac, a mac mini. I'm getting the one with the 320 gig harddrive and am going to get it with 4 gigs of ram. When it comes and I hook my current keyboard up to it, I've heard that I will need to press some keys so that it can recognize it. Some have said that vo will not read this. Is there a way to do this with vo or will I need sighted help for this? Thanks and can't wait to be a full member of the blind mac community. Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: very nice experience at University Village Apple Store in Seattle Washington
On 5/28/2009 2:34 PM, Jessi and Goldina wrote: agreed, Arthur, lol. if you're gonna take that approach about the iphone and firefox and their various addons and apps why don't you just say that about voiceover as a whole? what it seems like you're saying is let's not make the iphone accessible cuz none of the apps will be. well then, let's not make the mac accessible because of all those apps that aren't made by apple that may not be. that seems like a silly approach. I'm sure there will be plenty of iphone apps that will be accessible. as the word about accessibility grows, app developers will most likely strive to make their products accessible. they've done so on the mac, so I don't see why they wouldn't on the iphone. I'm sure apple will do it, it's only a matter of time. let's not be all negative and try and shoot down something that could benefit us. the iphone will still be the iphone whether it's accessible or not. peace and positivity Jessi follow me on twitter www.twitter.com/canadian_diva On 28-May-09, at 12:23 PM, arthur gindin wrote: spamming hardly befits a distinguished person Sean Tikkun wrote: Can folks on this board help me out here? I don't see the point of an accessible iPhone. The fluid dynamic of screen touch technology combined with GUI interface seems like it is just a counter accessible design form the get go. Once you make the thing accessible it is no longer an iPhone. I may not be far enough outside the box, but even if the iPhone were made accessible then all of the apps would still not be. It is the same issue with Firefox. If Firefox wanted to be accessible, they would be! From my understanding the mark-up is there. The code for using it is free to the programmers and developers... They just don't care to do it. Shouldn't we be e-mail spamming Firefox to get with the program? Sean Richards Tikkun Apple Distinghuished Educator class of 2007 jaq...@mac.com On May 28, 2009, at 5:20 AM, Vicki Manley wrote: Hi, That would be so ace if they brought out an accessible i phone What a really great suggestion!!! Best wishes, Vicki. On 28 May 2009, at 06:37, Ben King wrote: Dear Mac Friends, I am writing you to let you know about an experience I had today at the University Village Apple Store in Seattle Washington. The person that I spoke to was very nice and he asked me what I would like to see improved in regards to Voiceover. I told him that Fire Fox would be nice with Voiceover support as well as maybe an accessible I Phone. Anyway, it was extremely nice for me to go into an Apple Store and play with main stream technology. I love Voiceover as well as the Mac. I hope you all have a nice evening. Blessings, Ben King --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~--- Let's also remember that the folks at google encluding TV raymond are working to make the android phone which has a touch screen like the iphone, accessible. I'm sure Apple will eventually. Also, firefox is working on accessibility as has been discussed before. Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: very nice experience at University Village Apple Store in Seattle Washington
On 5/28/2009 3:39 PM, Cara Quinn wrote: Sean, I'd be happy to entertain your below points, but firstly, forgive me, but this honestly sounds like the very same rhetoric that I hear all too often in the blind community which simply is a negative response to touch screens?… Yes?… Is this really what your saying with the below, or are you genuinely not understanding how current touch screen tech is already used in the VI / blind community… Touch screen devices are already used by the visually impaired on a daily basis… On the point of accessible apps, I'm also not sure what your getting at here; Obviously, OSX / VO is already functioning just fine with a wide range of applications and as Apple would most assuredly extend the same paradigm to the IPhone, the same would logically hold true… Yes there would probably be apps which weren't accessible, as there are on the Mac, Windows, and various current Smart Phones / PDAs. However, there's every reason to believe that if there were an accessible IPhone screen access solution by Apple, that it's integration alone, would allow substantial access out of the box as it were. I'm not clear on why you'd suggest that an accessible IPhone isn't really an IPhone. What do you mean here?…smile Is a computer not 'really' a computer simply because it may run an accessible interface solution?… This type of logic doesn't make sense to me, but I'd certainly be interested in hearing where you're coming from on it, if you don't mind… Sure, the user experience would be different from a sighted user, but people customize their user experience very often, anyway. So this seems kind of moot to me… Anyway, I hope I've understood you correctly here, and that the above makes sense. :) Have a great day and talk with ya soon!… Smiles, Cara :) --- Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn On May 28, 2009, at 10:48 AM, Sean Tikkun wrote: Can folks on this board help me out here? I don't see the point of an accessible iPhone. The fluid dynamic of screen touch technology combined with GUI interface seems like it is just a counter accessible design form the get go. Once you make the thing accessible it is no longer an iPhone. I may not be far enough outside the box, but even if the iPhone were made accessible then all of the apps would still not be. It is the same issue with Firefox. If Firefox wanted to be accessible, they would be! From my understanding the mark-up is there. The code for using it is free to the programmers and developers... They just don't care to do it. Shouldn't we be e-mail spamming Firefox to get with the program? Sean Richards Tikkun Apple Distinghuished Educator class of 2007 jaq...@mac.com ADE_Logo_graysingle.png On May 28, 2009, at 5:20 AM, Vicki Manley wrote: Hi, That would be so ace if they brought out an accessible i phone What a really great suggestion!!! Best wishes, Vicki. On 28 May 2009, at 06:37, Ben King wrote: Dear Mac Friends, I am writing you to let you know about an experience I had today at the University Village Apple Store in Seattle Washington. The person that I spoke to was very nice and he asked me what I would like to see improved in regards to Voiceover. I told him that Fire Fox would be nice with Voiceover support as well as maybe an accessible I Phone. Anyway, it was extremely nice for me to go into an Apple Store and play with main stream technology. I love Voiceover as well as the Mac. I hope you all have a nice evening. Blessings, Ben King --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~--- From what I've heard the same fear was present when we moved to the gui, we will get to touch scereens as well I think. Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
