Like I said I'm not sure what the right solution is. I think there should at least be a basic tutorial that covers the use of vo with the finder maybe and other things. Again I really don't know how this will be balanced or solved.
Mike On Jun 12, 2009, at 7:42 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > > I totally agree. I think the VO quick start that exists in Leopard is > enough, because it shows you how to navigate all kinds of controls, > which in the end are the ones you find all over OS X and most > applications. So what's wrong with it? Personally I found it very > useful, along with the keyboard help feature. When I first started > using a Mac, I could do pretty much everything after a couple of hours > working on it. I mean I don't think more documentation would hurt, but > I would rather let those people work on actual features than putting > them to write documentation... > On Jun 12, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Scott Howell wrote: > >> >> I think what is important is you learn how to navigate with VO and >> then learn the applications as would any other user regardless of >> their ability or disability. I may be recalling incorrectly since it >> has been years since I bothered reading the manual for Window-EYes, >> but I think generally it instructed me on how to use WE and not on >> how >> to use all the applications. Now it is possible because the keys >> required for WE possibly change some behavior of an app, they might >> have touched on the differences, but gee you know I couldn't tell you >> what impact the windows-based screen reader has on the windows >> experience. :) I understand some of what you are saying, but yet once >> you learn VO, you'll learn the apps very quickly. I started off when >> VO was really new, so I really had to read what info I could find and >> learn from there. You know it wasn't to bad and really hey when you >> think about it, a number of people have produced tutorials on how to >> use this or that screen reader and this or that application, sold >> them, and made money. You can do the same thing as well. Wait, >> maybe I >> should be doing that. :) >> >> On Jun 11, 2009, at 10:40 PM, Mike Reiser wrote: >> >>> >>> I was confused about the editing thing as well at first but am doing >>> much better now I think. I still goof up sometimes but oh well. >>> This >>> guy obviously did not read the vo manual as I looked at it today and >>> it's very detailed in going over the desktop orientation and all >>> that. They don't describe how to quit apps and itunes isn't >>> mentioned >>> accept a little bit but otherwise it is very well written. I'm a >>> bit >>> concerned about Apple's documentation that comes with mac, and I >>> think >>> the tutorial should be more interactive in the sense that someone >>> should demonstrate basic tasks while the person follows along. I >>> feel >>> they should cover basic tasks like using finder, serfing the web, >>> sending email, word processing, and itunes, maybe one or two more >>> things. They should also enclude the vo manual with mac and maybe >>> give a short prompt when vo starts to press a key to read help and >>> maybe brief instructions on how to read it. I'm really not sure if >>> this would be too much info or not, however. They will have a >>> welcome >>> dialog in snowlepard, so this is a good step. >>> >>> Mike >>> On Jun 11, 2009, at 4:59 PM, kaare dehard wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Interesting, so I'll explore my own journey with you. >>>> >>>> My first talking computer ironicly was an apple ii e. My second >>>> was a >>>> dos machine. Neither of these gave me much trouble. Windows was my >>>> next stop, and with no prejudgement I worked for a week before I >>>> got >>>> myself grounded. Windows 95 98 and xp as well. I then moved on to >>>> voiceover for both financial and technical reasons. It took only 2 >>>> or >>>> 3 days to get my feet, but I couldn't tell you if it was easier to >>>> learn, or if my difficulties with jaws and window-eyes were merely >>>> experience not understanding differences between cli and gui. >>>> Editing >>>> with the mac gave me more problems than with windows but that was >>>> before someone explained the differences in how the cursors were >>>> handled. This is not a reporting error, as sugestive in the article >>>> but a different method of cursor tracking and usage. If this fellow >>>> writing Was truly interested in understanding the differences and >>>> giving the program a fair crack, it would have been just as easy >>>> for >>>> him to take advantage of the good help available on this list:). >>>> On 11-Jun-09, at 9:20 AM, Dean Wilcox wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> When you first started to use Windows were you new to >>>>> computers? I >>>>> mean you didn't use Lunux or an older flavour of Mac before >>>>> hand? I'm asking as I wonder if you found the Mac quicker to >>>>> learn >>>>> because you had a better grasp of computers in general when you >>>>> started with the Mac, something you may not have had when you >>>>> started >>>>> to use Windows. I'm not suggesting the Mac isn't easier to learn >>>>> but >>>>> I may have a valid point also. >>>>> >>>>> At 01:04 11/06/2009, you wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> You know what was so funny to me is I have been using the Mac >>>>>> since >>>>>> 2005 and quite honestly there was a learning curve, but it took >>>>>> me >>>>>> considerably less time to get up to speed on the Mac than it did >>>>>> for >>>>>> me to master Windows and Window-Eyes. I think a lot of it has to >>>>>> do >>>>>> with the fact that the experience of the Mac and VoiceOver are so >>>>>> closely related, where the experience of the windows environement >>>>>> and >>>>>> the screen reader are not going to be the same. I guess the best >>>>>> way >>>>>> to say it is the screen reader does present things a little >>>>>> different >>>>>> than what a sighted user may experience and VO more closely >>>>>> represents >>>>>> the experience a sighted user gets. Hmmm, hope that made >>>>>> sense. :) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.50/2150 - Release Date: >>>>>> 06/02/09 06:47:00 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
