Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I can’t see how Osx sierra would degrade from what it was.
I think its the best mac osx since i began to use it.
Of course it has some glitches but i can deal with them.
/A
> On 29 Sep 2016, at 01:20, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Rubbish, it is Samsung which has the reputation for seldom upgrading existing 
> OS on mobile phones which are already in the market. Apple supports upgrades 
> for several years, and does not charge for the upgrades. If you do not want 
> the latest software, do not install it. And yes, the latest software, on any 
> system, is built to access and run on the latest hardware.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 29/09/2016, at 01:27, -dan d.  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> No, it is the apple gravy train at work with built in obsolescence as a 
>> marketing approach.
>> 
>> Pushing bloatware out each year is no excuse and no favor for the end user.
>> 
>>> On Wed, 28 Sep 2016, Alex Hall wrote:
>>> 
>>> You're not considering the resource needs of the OS itself. New operating 
>>> systems have animations, background tasks, throughput needs, and other 
>>> requirements that must be met or the OS will run slowly and poorly. Apple 
>>> has to decide where those problems become so great that the OS would not be 
>>> usable. Yes, they can disable certain parts, like Airdrop on non-BT4.x 
>>> machines, but eventually they'd be disabling more than they'd leave.
>>> 
>>> It's like iPhones. When the 4 and 4s were getting upgrades, you'd hear the 
>>> same thing every year. People would scream about how their phone didn't get 
>>> the latest OS, and how terrible is it that Apple is abandoning their 
>>> customers, and on and on. (I'm not accusing you of saying that.) Then, if 
>>> Apple gave old phones an upgrade the next year, people would complain about 
>>> the stuttering animations, the missing features, the slow response times, 
>>> and so on. Apple can either cut off old machines and get hammered about 
>>> money-grubbing and not being responsible for their customers, or they can 
>>> support old machines and get hammered about poor performance and not 
>>> supporting new features.
 On Sep 28, 2016, at 06:31, Martin Brown  wrote:
 
 I have tried to download Sierra using my 2009 Mac Mini, but was informed
 that my device was not compatible. I am somewhat surprised at this because
 my Mini has 4GB of ram and a 500GB hard drive.
 
 I say somewhat surprised, but not totally. Perhaps Apple has applied the 7
 year rule. Put simply the powers that be feel it is time for me to join
 Apple's gravy train and spend some cash in their direction. Not a chance Mr
 Cook. I shall run this little baby up to, and beyond, the point where my
 smoke alarms start going off.
 
 I often hear the argument that Apple only use the very best components in
 their devices. Very good, but what is the point if the device has to go on
 the scrap heap half a century before the components might even consider
 giving up the ghost. Not a lot in my humble opinion. So much for
 conservation and getting the best out of limited resources.
 All the best from the last of the Neanderthals somewhere in the UK.
 
 
 
 --
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 ---
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
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 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Have a great day,
>>> Alex Hall
>>> mehg...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list 

Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

For one thing, braille support works fantastically.  So much so, let me tell 
you something.


I've got here an Alva Satalite 584 Pro.  Tell me a screen reader in Windows 
may I add, a modern screen reader, that works with it straight out of the 
box, just by plugging it in via USB, not even plugging in the power cord, 
and just letting it run bus powered.  I guarantee you, you won't find one, 
as it's too obsolete.  Now, on the mac side with the most up to date version 
of OSX, regardless the type of mac, ok, fine, newer systems, you'll need a 
USB to USB C adapter, but big freakin' deal, they're like, what, 10, maybe 
15 bucks on Amazon, if even that, and that's not even for just prime 
membership pricing?  Anyway, you plug it in, and boom!  No need even to 
start Voiceover back up to refresh things.  It just works.  Might I add, 
seeing that OSX is based off of Darwin, which is based off Unix, oh, and 
might I add, Linux is also based off of Unix, and being I know Linux uses 
the BRLTTY interface, odds are, so does OSX.  I don't know that for a fact, 
so don't put proverbial words in my mouth that I never fully clamed, but if 
I had to guess, I'd say it's incredibly likely that it's using that same 
engine.


I find foreign language support to be freaking steller on the mac with 
braille, etc.  Look at all the new voices that came out with OSX once 
Mavericks was released.  Then, with El Capitan, we got even more, like Ava, 
Alison, etc.


On a final note, you say that the Linux terminal doesn't really give you 
good support for social media.  This depends on what you're defining as 
social media.  If you're talking about Twitter, for example, then why not 
use something like ttytter.  And before anyone makes a real smarky smart 
butt joke about that which would be totally disgusting, look at how that is 
spelled, as I didn't say, t i t t e r.  I said, t t y! t t e r.


My point is, I feel you have every right to your opinion, and though I 
totally disagree with you, I'll stand for you to be able to speak your right 
of opinion until the end.  I don't think the mac's really degraded that much 
though like you say you fear.  Are there issues that need to be fixed, which 
have been over and over reported?  Yes.  Is it totally irritating that Apple 
hasn't fixed them?  Yes.  Absolutely it is!  But, I  don't know I'd go so 
far as to say the mac is totally degrading.  That's a bit overkill in my 
probably by most observed, not, so humble opinion.

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - 
From: "Devin Prater" <d.pra...@me.com>

To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra


Well, using Linux in the console, if you can get used to it, is very 
accessible, but not moddern enough to be very productive in today's social 
media stuff. Yes, the Mac accessibility is usable, but for how much longer? 
How much more will it degrade? That's what I worry about.


Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 28, 2016, at 5:53 PM, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote:

  Last shot at this for now. Show me another platform that rises above 
all. The next best enterprise we could look to would be advances in 
medical science. I will leave it at that. (smiles)


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com


On 9/28/2016 3:43 PM, Devin Prater wrote:
And unlike the big boys, you cannot improve Voiceover yourself. If 
something doesn't work, sorry. Beg the developer to fix it, or find some 
other program that works but may not work as well, such as Parallels, we 
must use VMWare. Also, if you need better braille support, you have to 
fiddle around and try and get BRLTTY to work, and even then it's just for 
the terminal. All in all, openness has pretty big advantages.


Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 28, 2016, at 1:43 PM, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote:

 And unlike the big boys, all accessibility tools are not only included, 
they work out of the box.


 At the end of the day, the initial high cost is just that. Also unlike 
the big boys and third party developers, there is no need of SMAs or 
added costs to keep up.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com


On 9/28/2016 11:38 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
No bloatware as far as I am concerned. With every single mac you 
purchase, Apple Store or otherwise, comes no bloatware unlike the big 
PC boys like Acer or HP.
On 28 Sep 2016, at 14:55, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
<clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:


Bloteware?  Um, no offense, but I've not seen any bloteware on the mac 
with Sierra or the like.  Care to elaborate?

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - From: "

Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra

[E.T.]

   I am not sure that its practical to look into the future and wonder 
"how much longer". I think its self defeating. Without a doubt, more can 
be done especially with braille support. I prefer to keep plugging away 
at what I use now and do MY best to make it work for me.


   I do not think I have been using a Mac long enough to agree or 
disagree that accessibility is degrading. I hear the frustration. I keep 
mine to myself. (smiles) I contend however, that the mainstream market 
as a whole is evolving so rapidly that more issues crop up and we as 
blind consumers are not the only ones affected.


   So let's choose a volunteer here who excels in braille and ship 
him/her off to Apple.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/28/2016 4:00 PM, Devin Prater wrote:

Well, using Linux in the console, if you can get used to it, is very 
accessible, but not moddern enough to be very productive in today's social 
media stuff. Yes, the Mac accessibility is usable, but for how much longer? How 
much more will it degrade? That's what I worry about.

Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 28, 2016, at 5:53 PM, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote:

  Last shot at this for now. Show me another platform that rises above all. The 
next best enterprise we could look to would be advances in medical science. I 
will leave it at that. (smiles)

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com


On 9/28/2016 3:43 PM, Devin Prater wrote:
And unlike the big boys, you cannot improve Voiceover yourself. If something 
doesn't work, sorry. Beg the developer to fix it, or find some other program 
that works but may not work as well, such as Parallels, we must use VMWare. 
Also, if you need better braille support, you have to fiddle around and try and 
get BRLTTY to work, and even then it's just for the terminal. All in all, 
openness has pretty big advantages.

Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 28, 2016, at 1:43 PM, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote:

 And unlike the big boys, all accessibility tools are not only included, they 
work out of the box.

 At the end of the day, the initial high cost is just that. Also unlike the big 
boys and third party developers, there is no need of SMAs or added costs to 
keep up.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com


On 9/28/2016 11:38 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
No bloatware as far as I am concerned. With every single mac you purchase, 
Apple Store or otherwise, comes no bloatware unlike the big PC boys like Acer 
or HP.
On 28 Sep 2016, at 14:55, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

Bloteware?  Um, no offense, but I've not seen any bloteware on the mac with 
Sierra or the like.  Care to elaborate?
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - From: "-dan d." <dandun...@gmail.com>
To: "Alex Hall" <mehg...@icloud.com>
Cc: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra



No, it is the apple gravy train at work with built in obsolescence as a
marketing approach.

Pushing bloatware out each year is no excuse and no favor for the end
user.


On Wed, 28 Sep 2016, Alex Hall wrote:

You're not considering the resource needs of the OS itself. New operating 
systems have animations, background tasks, throughput needs, and other 
requirements that must be met or the OS will run slowly and poorly. Apple has 
to decide where those problems become so great that the OS would not be usable. 
Yes, they can disable certain parts, like Airdrop on non-BT4.x machines, but 
eventually they'd be disabling more than they'd leave.

It's like iPhones. When the 4 and 4s were getting upgrades, you'd hear the same 
thing every year. People would scream about how their phone didn't get the 
latest OS, and how terrible is it that Apple is abandoning their customers, and 
on and on. (I'm not accusing you of saying that.) Then, if Apple gave old 
phones an upgrade the next year, people would complain about the stuttering 
animations, the missing features, the slow response times, and so on. Apple can 
either cut off old machines and get hammered about money-grubbing and not being 
responsible for their customers, or they can support old machines and get 
hammered about poor performance and not supporting new features.

On Sep 28, 2016, at 06:31, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have tried to download Sierra using my 2009 Mac Mini, but was informed
that my device was not compatible. I am somewhat surprised at this because
my Mini has 4GB of ram and a 500GB hard drive.

I say somewhat surprised, but not totally. Perhaps Apple has applied the 7
year rule. Put simply the powers that be feel it is time for me to join

Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra

[David Chittenden]

Rubbish, it is Samsung which has the reputation for seldom upgrading existing 
OS on mobile phones which are already in the market. Apple supports upgrades 
for several years, and does not charge for the upgrades. If you do not want the 
latest software, do not install it. And yes, the latest software, on any 
system, is built to access and run on the latest hardware.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 29/09/2016, at 01:27, -dan d.  wrote:
> 
> 
> No, it is the apple gravy train at work with built in obsolescence as a 
> marketing approach.
> 
> Pushing bloatware out each year is no excuse and no favor for the end user.
> 
>> On Wed, 28 Sep 2016, Alex Hall wrote:
>> 
>> You're not considering the resource needs of the OS itself. New operating 
>> systems have animations, background tasks, throughput needs, and other 
>> requirements that must be met or the OS will run slowly and poorly. Apple 
>> has to decide where those problems become so great that the OS would not be 
>> usable. Yes, they can disable certain parts, like Airdrop on non-BT4.x 
>> machines, but eventually they'd be disabling more than they'd leave.
>> 
>> It's like iPhones. When the 4 and 4s were getting upgrades, you'd hear the 
>> same thing every year. People would scream about how their phone didn't get 
>> the latest OS, and how terrible is it that Apple is abandoning their 
>> customers, and on and on. (I'm not accusing you of saying that.) Then, if 
>> Apple gave old phones an upgrade the next year, people would complain about 
>> the stuttering animations, the missing features, the slow response times, 
>> and so on. Apple can either cut off old machines and get hammered about 
>> money-grubbing and not being responsible for their customers, or they can 
>> support old machines and get hammered about poor performance and not 
>> supporting new features.
>>> On Sep 28, 2016, at 06:31, Martin Brown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have tried to download Sierra using my 2009 Mac Mini, but was informed
>>> that my device was not compatible. I am somewhat surprised at this because
>>> my Mini has 4GB of ram and a 500GB hard drive.
>>> 
>>> I say somewhat surprised, but not totally. Perhaps Apple has applied the 7
>>> year rule. Put simply the powers that be feel it is time for me to join
>>> Apple's gravy train and spend some cash in their direction. Not a chance Mr
>>> Cook. I shall run this little baby up to, and beyond, the point where my
>>> smoke alarms start going off.
>>> 
>>> I often hear the argument that Apple only use the very best components in
>>> their devices. Very good, but what is the point if the device has to go on
>>> the scrap heap half a century before the components might even consider
>>> giving up the ghost. Not a lot in my humble opinion. So much for
>>> conservation and getting the best out of limited resources.
>>> All the best from the last of the Neanderthals somewhere in the UK.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Have a great day,
>> Alex Hall
>> mehg...@icloud.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the 

Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra

[Devin Prater]

Well, using Linux in the console, if you can get used to it, is very 
accessible, but not moddern enough to be very productive in today's social 
media stuff. Yes, the Mac accessibility is usable, but for how much longer? How 
much more will it degrade? That's what I worry about.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 28, 2016, at 5:53 PM, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
>   Last shot at this for now. Show me another platform that rises above all. 
> The next best enterprise we could look to would be advances in medical 
> science. I will leave it at that. (smiles)
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 9/28/2016 3:43 PM, Devin Prater wrote:
>> And unlike the big boys, you cannot improve Voiceover yourself. If something 
>> doesn't work, sorry. Beg the developer to fix it, or find some other program 
>> that works but may not work as well, such as Parallels, we must use VMWare. 
>> Also, if you need better braille support, you have to fiddle around and try 
>> and get BRLTTY to work, and even then it's just for the terminal. All in 
>> all, openness has pretty big advantages.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 28, 2016, at 1:43 PM, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  And unlike the big boys, all accessibility tools are not only included, 
>>> they work out of the box.
>>> 
>>>  At the end of the day, the initial high cost is just that. Also unlike the 
>>> big boys and third party developers, there is no need of SMAs or added 
>>> costs to keep up.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>>>> On 9/28/2016 11:38 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
>>>>> No bloatware as far as I am concerned. With every single mac you 
>>>>> purchase, Apple Store or otherwise, comes no bloatware unlike the big PC 
>>>>> boys like Acer or HP.
>>>>> On 28 Sep 2016, at 14:55, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>>>> <clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bloteware?  Um, no offense, but I've not seen any bloteware on the mac 
>>>>> with Sierra or the like.  Care to elaborate?
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Christopher Gilland
>>>>> JAWS Certified, 2016.
>>>>> Training Instructor.
>>>>> 
>>>>> i...@gillandmarketing.com
>>>>> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
>>>>> - Original Message - From: "-dan d." <dandun...@gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Alex Hall" <mehg...@icloud.com>
>>>>> Cc: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 8:27 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> No, it is the apple gravy train at work with built in obsolescence as a
>>>>> marketing approach.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Pushing bloatware out each year is no excuse and no favor for the end
>>>>> user.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wed, 28 Sep 2016, Alex Hall wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You're not considering the resource needs of the OS itself. New 
>>>>>> operating systems have animations, background tasks, throughput needs, 
>>>>>> and other requirements that must be met or the OS will run slowly and 
>>>>>> poorly. Apple has to decide where those problems become so great that 
>>>>>> the OS would not be usable. Yes, they can disable certain parts, like 
>>>>>> Airdrop on non-BT4.x machines, but eventually they'd be disabling more 
>>>>>> than they'd leave.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's like iPhones. When the 4 and 4s were getting upgrades, you'd hear 
>>>>>> the same thing every year. People would scream about how their phone 
>>>>>> didn't get the latest OS, and how terrible is it that Apple is 
>>>>>> abandoning their customers, and on and on. (I'm not accusing you of 
>>>>>> saying that.) Then, if Apple gave old phones an upgrade the next year, 
>>>>>> people would complain about the stuttering animations, the missing 
>>>>>> features, the slow response times, and so on. Apple can either cut off 
>>>>>> old machines and get hammered about money-grubbing and not being 
>>

Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra

[E.T.]

   Last shot at this for now. Show me another platform that rises above 
all. The next best enterprise we could look to would be advances in 
medical science. I will leave it at that. (smiles)


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/28/2016 3:43 PM, Devin Prater wrote:

And unlike the big boys, you cannot improve Voiceover yourself. If something 
doesn't work, sorry. Beg the developer to fix it, or find some other program 
that works but may not work as well, such as Parallels, we must use VMWare. 
Also, if you need better braille support, you have to fiddle around and try and 
get BRLTTY to work, and even then it's just for the terminal. All in all, 
openness has pretty big advantages.

Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 28, 2016, at 1:43 PM, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote:

  And unlike the big boys, all accessibility tools are not only included, they 
work out of the box.

  At the end of the day, the initial high cost is just that. Also unlike the 
big boys and third party developers, there is no need of SMAs or added costs to 
keep up.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com


On 9/28/2016 11:38 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
No bloatware as far as I am concerned. With every single mac you purchase, 
Apple Store or otherwise, comes no bloatware unlike the big PC boys like Acer 
or HP.

On 28 Sep 2016, at 14:55, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

Bloteware?  Um, no offense, but I've not seen any bloteware on the mac with 
Sierra or the like.  Care to elaborate?
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - From: "-dan d." <dandun...@gmail.com>
To: "Alex Hall" <mehg...@icloud.com>
Cc: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra



No, it is the apple gravy train at work with built in obsolescence as a
marketing approach.

Pushing bloatware out each year is no excuse and no favor for the end
user.


On Wed, 28 Sep 2016, Alex Hall wrote:

You're not considering the resource needs of the OS itself. New operating 
systems have animations, background tasks, throughput needs, and other 
requirements that must be met or the OS will run slowly and poorly. Apple has 
to decide where those problems become so great that the OS would not be usable. 
Yes, they can disable certain parts, like Airdrop on non-BT4.x machines, but 
eventually they'd be disabling more than they'd leave.

It's like iPhones. When the 4 and 4s were getting upgrades, you'd hear the same 
thing every year. People would scream about how their phone didn't get the 
latest OS, and how terrible is it that Apple is abandoning their customers, and 
on and on. (I'm not accusing you of saying that.) Then, if Apple gave old 
phones an upgrade the next year, people would complain about the stuttering 
animations, the missing features, the slow response times, and so on. Apple can 
either cut off old machines and get hammered about money-grubbing and not being 
responsible for their customers, or they can support old machines and get 
hammered about poor performance and not supporting new features.

On Sep 28, 2016, at 06:31, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have tried to download Sierra using my 2009 Mac Mini, but was informed
that my device was not compatible. I am somewhat surprised at this because
my Mini has 4GB of ram and a 500GB hard drive.

I say somewhat surprised, but not totally. Perhaps Apple has applied the 7
year rule. Put simply the powers that be feel it is time for me to join
Apple's gravy train and spend some cash in their direction. Not a chance Mr
Cook. I shall run this little baby up to, and beyond, the point where my
smoke alarms start going off.

I often hear the argument that Apple only use the very best components in
their devices. Very good, but what is the point if the device has to go on
the scrap heap half a century before the components might even consider
giving up the ghost. Not a lot in my humble opinion. So much for
conservation and getting the best out of limited resources.
All the best from the last of the Neanderthals somewhere in the UK.



--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/

Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra

[Devin Prater]

And unlike the big boys, you cannot improve Voiceover yourself. If something 
doesn't work, sorry. Beg the developer to fix it, or find some other program 
that works but may not work as well, such as Parallels, we must use VMWare. 
Also, if you need better braille support, you have to fiddle around and try and 
get BRLTTY to work, and even then it's just for the terminal. All in all, 
openness has pretty big advantages. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 28, 2016, at 1:43 PM, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
>   And unlike the big boys, all accessibility tools are not only included, 
> they work out of the box.
> 
>   At the end of the day, the initial high cost is just that. Also unlike the 
> big boys and third party developers, there is no need of SMAs or added costs 
> to keep up.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 9/28/2016 11:38 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
>> No bloatware as far as I am concerned. With every single mac you purchase, 
>> Apple Store or otherwise, comes no bloatware unlike the big PC boys like 
>> Acer or HP.
>>> On 28 Sep 2016, at 14:55, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bloteware?  Um, no offense, but I've not seen any bloteware on the mac with 
>>> Sierra or the like.  Care to elaborate?
>>> ---
>>> Christopher Gilland
>>> JAWS Certified, 2016.
>>> Training Instructor.
>>> 
>>> i...@gillandmarketing.com
>>> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
>>> - Original Message - From: "-dan d." <dandun...@gmail.com>
>>> To: "Alex Hall" <mehg...@icloud.com>
>>> Cc: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 8:27 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> No, it is the apple gravy train at work with built in obsolescence as a
>>> marketing approach.
>>> 
>>> Pushing bloatware out each year is no excuse and no favor for the end
>>> user.
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, 28 Sep 2016, Alex Hall wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> You're not considering the resource needs of the OS itself. New operating 
>>>> systems have animations, background tasks, throughput needs, and other 
>>>> requirements that must be met or the OS will run slowly and poorly. Apple 
>>>> has to decide where those problems become so great that the OS would not 
>>>> be usable. Yes, they can disable certain parts, like Airdrop on non-BT4.x 
>>>> machines, but eventually they'd be disabling more than they'd leave.
>>>> 
>>>> It's like iPhones. When the 4 and 4s were getting upgrades, you'd hear the 
>>>> same thing every year. People would scream about how their phone didn't 
>>>> get the latest OS, and how terrible is it that Apple is abandoning their 
>>>> customers, and on and on. (I'm not accusing you of saying that.) Then, if 
>>>> Apple gave old phones an upgrade the next year, people would complain 
>>>> about the stuttering animations, the missing features, the slow response 
>>>> times, and so on. Apple can either cut off old machines and get hammered 
>>>> about money-grubbing and not being responsible for their customers, or 
>>>> they can support old machines and get hammered about poor performance and 
>>>> not supporting new features.
>>>>> On Sep 28, 2016, at 06:31, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have tried to download Sierra using my 2009 Mac Mini, but was informed
>>>>> that my device was not compatible. I am somewhat surprised at this because
>>>>> my Mini has 4GB of ram and a 500GB hard drive.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I say somewhat surprised, but not totally. Perhaps Apple has applied the 7
>>>>> year rule. Put simply the powers that be feel it is time for me to join
>>>>> Apple's gravy train and spend some cash in their direction. Not a chance 
>>>>> Mr
>>>>> Cook. I shall run this little baby up to, and beyond, the point where my
>>>>> smoke alarms start going off.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I often hear the argument that Apple only use the very best components in
>>>>> their devices. Very good, but what is the point if the device has to go on
>>>>> the scrap heap half a century before the components might even consider
>>>>> giving up the 

Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra

[E.T.]

   And unlike the big boys, all accessibility tools are not only 
included, they work out of the box.


   At the end of the day, the initial high cost is just that. Also 
unlike the big boys and third party developers, there is no need of SMAs 
or added costs to keep up.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/28/2016 11:38 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:

No bloatware as far as I am concerned. With every single mac you purchase, 
Apple Store or otherwise, comes no bloatware unlike the big PC boys like Acer 
or HP.

On 28 Sep 2016, at 14:55, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

Bloteware?  Um, no offense, but I've not seen any bloteware on the mac with 
Sierra or the like.  Care to elaborate?
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - From: "-dan d." <dandun...@gmail.com>
To: "Alex Hall" <mehg...@icloud.com>
Cc: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra



No, it is the apple gravy train at work with built in obsolescence as a
marketing approach.

Pushing bloatware out each year is no excuse and no favor for the end
user.

On Wed, 28 Sep 2016, Alex Hall wrote:


You're not considering the resource needs of the OS itself. New operating 
systems have animations, background tasks, throughput needs, and other 
requirements that must be met or the OS will run slowly and poorly. Apple has 
to decide where those problems become so great that the OS would not be usable. 
Yes, they can disable certain parts, like Airdrop on non-BT4.x machines, but 
eventually they'd be disabling more than they'd leave.

It's like iPhones. When the 4 and 4s were getting upgrades, you'd hear the same 
thing every year. People would scream about how their phone didn't get the 
latest OS, and how terrible is it that Apple is abandoning their customers, and 
on and on. (I'm not accusing you of saying that.) Then, if Apple gave old 
phones an upgrade the next year, people would complain about the stuttering 
animations, the missing features, the slow response times, and so on. Apple can 
either cut off old machines and get hammered about money-grubbing and not being 
responsible for their customers, or they can support old machines and get 
hammered about poor performance and not supporting new features.

On Sep 28, 2016, at 06:31, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have tried to download Sierra using my 2009 Mac Mini, but was informed
that my device was not compatible. I am somewhat surprised at this because
my Mini has 4GB of ram and a 500GB hard drive.

I say somewhat surprised, but not totally. Perhaps Apple has applied the 7
year rule. Put simply the powers that be feel it is time for me to join
Apple's gravy train and spend some cash in their direction. Not a chance Mr
Cook. I shall run this little baby up to, and beyond, the point where my
smoke alarms start going off.

I often hear the argument that Apple only use the very best components in
their devices. Very good, but what is the point if the device has to go on
the scrap heap half a century before the components might even consider
giving up the ghost. Not a lot in my humble opinion. So much for
conservation and getting the best out of limited resources.
All the best from the last of the Neanderthals somewhere in the UK.



--
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Have a great day,
Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com




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Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra

[christopher hallsworth]

No bloatware as far as I am concerned. With every single mac you purchase, 
Apple Store or otherwise, comes no bloatware unlike the big PC boys like Acer 
or HP.
> On 28 Sep 2016, at 14:55, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Bloteware?  Um, no offense, but I've not seen any bloteware on the mac with 
> Sierra or the like.  Care to elaborate?
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
> 
> i...@gillandmarketing.com
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
> - Original Message - From: "-dan d." <dandun...@gmail.com>
> To: "Alex Hall" <mehg...@icloud.com>
> Cc: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 8:27 AM
> Subject: Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is the apple gravy train at work with built in obsolescence as a
> marketing approach.
> 
> Pushing bloatware out each year is no excuse and no favor for the end
> user.
> 
> On Wed, 28 Sep 2016, Alex Hall wrote:
> 
>> You're not considering the resource needs of the OS itself. New operating 
>> systems have animations, background tasks, throughput needs, and other 
>> requirements that must be met or the OS will run slowly and poorly. Apple 
>> has to decide where those problems become so great that the OS would not be 
>> usable. Yes, they can disable certain parts, like Airdrop on non-BT4.x 
>> machines, but eventually they'd be disabling more than they'd leave.
>> 
>> It's like iPhones. When the 4 and 4s were getting upgrades, you'd hear the 
>> same thing every year. People would scream about how their phone didn't get 
>> the latest OS, and how terrible is it that Apple is abandoning their 
>> customers, and on and on. (I'm not accusing you of saying that.) Then, if 
>> Apple gave old phones an upgrade the next year, people would complain about 
>> the stuttering animations, the missing features, the slow response times, 
>> and so on. Apple can either cut off old machines and get hammered about 
>> money-grubbing and not being responsible for their customers, or they can 
>> support old machines and get hammered about poor performance and not 
>> supporting new features.
>>> On Sep 28, 2016, at 06:31, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have tried to download Sierra using my 2009 Mac Mini, but was informed
>>> that my device was not compatible. I am somewhat surprised at this because
>>> my Mini has 4GB of ram and a 500GB hard drive.
>>> 
>>> I say somewhat surprised, but not totally. Perhaps Apple has applied the 7
>>> year rule. Put simply the powers that be feel it is time for me to join
>>> Apple's gravy train and spend some cash in their direction. Not a chance Mr
>>> Cook. I shall run this little baby up to, and beyond, the point where my
>>> smoke alarms start going off.
>>> 
>>> I often hear the argument that Apple only use the very best components in
>>> their devices. Very good, but what is the point if the device has to go on
>>> the scrap heap half a century before the components might even consider
>>> giving up the ghost. Not a lot in my humble opinion. So much for
>>> conservation and getting the best out of limited resources.
>>> All the best from the last of the Neanderthals somewhere in the UK.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visi

Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Well said, Alex.  No further comments, that's all I'm gonna say.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Alex Hall 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 6:58 AM
  Subject: Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra


  You're not considering the resource needs of the OS itself. New operating 
systems have animations, background tasks, throughput needs, and other 
requirements that must be met or the OS will run slowly and poorly. Apple has 
to decide where those problems become so great that the OS would not be usable. 
Yes, they can disable certain parts, like Airdrop on non-BT4.x machines, but 
eventually they'd be disabling more than they'd leave.


  It's like iPhones. When the 4 and 4s were getting upgrades, you'd hear the 
same thing every year. People would scream about how their phone didn't get the 
latest OS, and how terrible is it that Apple is abandoning their customers, and 
on and on. (I'm not accusing you of saying that.) Then, if Apple gave old 
phones an upgrade the next year, people would complain about the stuttering 
animations, the missing features, the slow response times, and so on. Apple can 
either cut off old machines and get hammered about money-grubbing and not being 
responsible for their customers, or they can support old machines and get 
hammered about poor performance and not supporting new features.

On Sep 28, 2016, at 06:31, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:


I have tried to download Sierra using my 2009 Mac Mini, but was informed
that my device was not compatible. I am somewhat surprised at this because
my Mini has 4GB of ram and a 500GB hard drive.

I say somewhat surprised, but not totally. Perhaps Apple has applied the 7
year rule. Put simply the powers that be feel it is time for me to join
Apple's gravy train and spend some cash in their direction. Not a chance Mr
Cook. I shall run this little baby up to, and beyond, the point where my
smoke alarms start going off.

I often hear the argument that Apple only use the very best components in
their devices. Very good, but what is the point if the device has to go on
the scrap heap half a century before the components might even consider
giving up the ghost. Not a lot in my humble opinion. So much for
conservation and getting the best out of limited resources.
All the best from the last of the Neanderthals somewhere in the UK.



-- 
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Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
 macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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  --
  Have a great day,
  Alex Hall
  mehg...@icloud.com








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Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra

[E.T.]

   And we CAN get off that gravy train at any time. We are not being 
held hostage. Maybe I speak too soon for I will be installing Sierra 
this weekend but I have gone through 4 OSs now. What's one more?


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/28/2016 5:27 AM, -dan d. wrote:


No, it is the apple gravy train at work with built in obsolescence as a
marketing approach.

 Pushing bloatware out each year is no excuse and no favor for the end
user.

On Wed, 28 Sep 2016, Alex Hall wrote:


You're not considering the resource needs of the OS itself. New
operating systems have animations, background tasks, throughput needs,
and other requirements that must be met or the OS will run slowly and
poorly. Apple has to decide where those problems become so great that
the OS would not be usable. Yes, they can disable certain parts, like
Airdrop on non-BT4.x machines, but eventually they'd be disabling more
than they'd leave.

It's like iPhones. When the 4 and 4s were getting upgrades, you'd hear
the same thing every year. People would scream about how their phone
didn't get the latest OS, and how terrible is it that Apple is
abandoning their customers, and on and on. (I'm not accusing you of
saying that.) Then, if Apple gave old phones an upgrade the next year,
people would complain about the stuttering animations, the missing
features, the slow response times, and so on. Apple can either cut off
old machines and get hammered about money-grubbing and not being
responsible for their customers, or they can support old machines and
get hammered about poor performance and not supporting new features.

On Sep 28, 2016, at 06:31, Martin Brown  wrote:

I have tried to download Sierra using my 2009 Mac Mini, but was informed
that my device was not compatible. I am somewhat surprised at this
because
my Mini has 4GB of ram and a 500GB hard drive.

I say somewhat surprised, but not totally. Perhaps Apple has applied
the 7
year rule. Put simply the powers that be feel it is time for me to join
Apple's gravy train and spend some cash in their direction. Not a
chance Mr
Cook. I shall run this little baby up to, and beyond, the point where my
smoke alarms start going off.

I often hear the argument that Apple only use the very best
components in
their devices. Very good, but what is the point if the device has to
go on
the scrap heap half a century before the components might even consider
giving up the ghost. Not a lot in my humble opinion. So much for
conservation and getting the best out of limited resources.
All the best from the last of the Neanderthals somewhere in the UK.



--
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Visionaries list.

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or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list
itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is
Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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Have a great day,
Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com




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XB



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Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Actually, that phone you mention could! run Android 7, but that's not for 
this list.  If you wanna know more, shoot me an e-mail off list.


clgillan...@gmail.com
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - 
From: "Saqib Hussain" <saqib1...@icloud.com>

To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra


Hi. May the processor can’t handle the latest OS. Unfortunately there seems 
to be a cut off point with hardware regardless of the OS in question. It is 
the same with phones. You probably wouldn’t be able to run the latest 
Android  7 on a 2011 phone like the Samsung Galaxy S2. In my opinion, 
Devices now need to be updated every 2 to 3 years and that can be harsh on 
someone who may only have a small budget at their disposal.

On 28 Sep 2016, at 11:31, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have tried to download Sierra using my 2009 Mac Mini, but was informed
that my device was not compatible. I am somewhat surprised at this because
my Mini has 4GB of ram and a 500GB hard drive.

I say somewhat surprised, but not totally. Perhaps Apple has applied the 7
year rule. Put simply the powers that be feel it is time for me to join
Apple's gravy train and spend some cash in their direction. Not a chance 
Mr

Cook. I shall run this little baby up to, and beyond, the point where my
smoke alarms start going off.

I often hear the argument that Apple only use the very best components in
their devices. Very good, but what is the point if the device has to go on
the scrap heap half a century before the components might even consider
giving up the ghost. Not a lot in my humble opinion. So much for
conservation and getting the best out of limited resources.
All the best from the last of the Neanderthals somewhere in the UK.



--
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Visionaries list.


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at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com


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Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Bloteware?  Um, no offense, but I've not seen any bloteware on the mac with 
Sierra or the like.  Care to elaborate?

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - 
From: "-dan d." <dandun...@gmail.com>

To: "Alex Hall" <mehg...@icloud.com>
Cc: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra



No, it is the apple gravy train at work with built in obsolescence as a
marketing approach.

 Pushing bloatware out each year is no excuse and no favor for the end
user.

On Wed, 28 Sep 2016, Alex Hall wrote:

You're not considering the resource needs of the OS itself. New operating 
systems have animations, background tasks, throughput needs, and other 
requirements that must be met or the OS will run slowly and poorly. Apple 
has to decide where those problems become so great that the OS would not 
be usable. Yes, they can disable certain parts, like Airdrop on non-BT4.x 
machines, but eventually they'd be disabling more than they'd leave.


It's like iPhones. When the 4 and 4s were getting upgrades, you'd hear the 
same thing every year. People would scream about how their phone didn't 
get the latest OS, and how terrible is it that Apple is abandoning their 
customers, and on and on. (I'm not accusing you of saying that.) Then, if 
Apple gave old phones an upgrade the next year, people would complain 
about the stuttering animations, the missing features, the slow response 
times, and so on. Apple can either cut off old machines and get hammered 
about money-grubbing and not being responsible for their customers, or 
they can support old machines and get hammered about poor performance and 
not supporting new features.

On Sep 28, 2016, at 06:31, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have tried to download Sierra using my 2009 Mac Mini, but was informed
that my device was not compatible. I am somewhat surprised at this 
because

my Mini has 4GB of ram and a 500GB hard drive.

I say somewhat surprised, but not totally. Perhaps Apple has applied the 
7

year rule. Put simply the powers that be feel it is time for me to join
Apple's gravy train and spend some cash in their direction. Not a chance 
Mr

Cook. I shall run this little baby up to, and beyond, the point where my
smoke alarms start going off.

I often hear the argument that Apple only use the very best components in
their devices. Very good, but what is the point if the device has to go 
on

the scrap heap half a century before the components might even consider
giving up the ghost. Not a lot in my humble opinion. So much for
conservation and getting the best out of limited resources.
All the best from the last of the Neanderthals somewhere in the UK.



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mehg...@icloud.com




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Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra

[Saqib Hussain]

Hi. May the processor can’t handle the latest OS. Unfortunately there seems to 
be a cut off point with hardware regardless of the OS in question. It is the 
same with phones. You probably wouldn’t be able to run the latest Android  7 on 
a 2011 phone like the Samsung Galaxy S2. In my opinion, Devices now need to be 
updated every 2 to 3 years and that can be harsh on someone who may only have a 
small budget at their disposal. 
> On 28 Sep 2016, at 11:31, Martin Brown  wrote:
> 
> I have tried to download Sierra using my 2009 Mac Mini, but was informed
> that my device was not compatible. I am somewhat surprised at this because
> my Mini has 4GB of ram and a 500GB hard drive.
> 
> I say somewhat surprised, but not totally. Perhaps Apple has applied the 7
> year rule. Put simply the powers that be feel it is time for me to join
> Apple's gravy train and spend some cash in their direction. Not a chance Mr
> Cook. I shall run this little baby up to, and beyond, the point where my
> smoke alarms start going off.
> 
> I often hear the argument that Apple only use the very best components in
> their devices. Very good, but what is the point if the device has to go on
> the scrap heap half a century before the components might even consider
> giving up the ghost. Not a lot in my humble opinion. So much for
> conservation and getting the best out of limited resources.
> All the best from the last of the Neanderthals somewhere in the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> list.
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> 
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Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra

[-dan d.]

No, it is the apple gravy train at work with built in obsolescence as a 
marketing approach.


 Pushing bloatware out each year is no excuse and no favor for the end 
user.


On Wed, 28 Sep 2016, Alex Hall wrote:


You're not considering the resource needs of the OS itself. New operating 
systems have animations, background tasks, throughput needs, and other 
requirements that must be met or the OS will run slowly and poorly. Apple has 
to decide where those problems become so great that the OS would not be usable. 
Yes, they can disable certain parts, like Airdrop on non-BT4.x machines, but 
eventually they'd be disabling more than they'd leave.

It's like iPhones. When the 4 and 4s were getting upgrades, you'd hear the same 
thing every year. People would scream about how their phone didn't get the 
latest OS, and how terrible is it that Apple is abandoning their customers, and 
on and on. (I'm not accusing you of saying that.) Then, if Apple gave old 
phones an upgrade the next year, people would complain about the stuttering 
animations, the missing features, the slow response times, and so on. Apple can 
either cut off old machines and get hammered about money-grubbing and not being 
responsible for their customers, or they can support old machines and get 
hammered about poor performance and not supporting new features.

On Sep 28, 2016, at 06:31, Martin Brown  wrote:

I have tried to download Sierra using my 2009 Mac Mini, but was informed
that my device was not compatible. I am somewhat surprised at this because
my Mini has 4GB of ram and a 500GB hard drive.

I say somewhat surprised, but not totally. Perhaps Apple has applied the 7
year rule. Put simply the powers that be feel it is time for me to join
Apple's gravy train and spend some cash in their direction. Not a chance Mr
Cook. I shall run this little baby up to, and beyond, the point where my
smoke alarms start going off.

I often hear the argument that Apple only use the very best components in
their devices. Very good, but what is the point if the device has to go on
the scrap heap half a century before the components might even consider
giving up the ghost. Not a lot in my humble opinion. So much for
conservation and getting the best out of limited resources.
All the best from the last of the Neanderthals somewhere in the UK.



--
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list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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--
Have a great day,
Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com




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XB

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Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Martin,

Is there anything in Sierra that you don’t want to live without, or are you 
quite happy with El Capitan?
I’m quite sure that my MacBook Air will take Sierra with ease, but for the time 
being, I’m not going to bother because I don’t need all the bells and whistles.
I have installed Sierra on our machine we use for teaching as any mew Mac users 
we train will have machines running Sierra and we need to be familiar with it.

Cheers,

Anne



> On 28 Sep 2016, at 12:31, Martin Brown  wrote:
> 
> I have tried to download Sierra using my 2009 Mac Mini, but was informed
> that my device was not compatible. I am somewhat surprised at this because
> my Mini has 4GB of ram and a 500GB hard drive.
> 
> I say somewhat surprised, but not totally. Perhaps Apple has applied the 7
> year rule. Put simply the powers that be feel it is time for me to join
> Apple's gravy train and spend some cash in their direction. Not a chance Mr
> Cook. I shall run this little baby up to, and beyond, the point where my
> smoke alarms start going off.
> 
> I often hear the argument that Apple only use the very best components in
> their devices. Very good, but what is the point if the device has to go on
> the scrap heap half a century before the components might even consider
> giving up the ghost. Not a lot in my humble opinion. So much for
> conservation and getting the best out of limited resources.
> All the best from the last of the Neanderthals somewhere in the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Apple kills my little mini with Sierra

[Alex Hall]

You're not considering the resource needs of the OS itself. New operating 
systems have animations, background tasks, throughput needs, and other 
requirements that must be met or the OS will run slowly and poorly. Apple has 
to decide where those problems become so great that the OS would not be usable. 
Yes, they can disable certain parts, like Airdrop on non-BT4.x machines, but 
eventually they'd be disabling more than they'd leave.

It's like iPhones. When the 4 and 4s were getting upgrades, you'd hear the same 
thing every year. People would scream about how their phone didn't get the 
latest OS, and how terrible is it that Apple is abandoning their customers, and 
on and on. (I'm not accusing you of saying that.) Then, if Apple gave old 
phones an upgrade the next year, people would complain about the stuttering 
animations, the missing features, the slow response times, and so on. Apple can 
either cut off old machines and get hammered about money-grubbing and not being 
responsible for their customers, or they can support old machines and get 
hammered about poor performance and not supporting new features.
> On Sep 28, 2016, at 06:31, Martin Brown  wrote:
> 
> I have tried to download Sierra using my 2009 Mac Mini, but was informed
> that my device was not compatible. I am somewhat surprised at this because
> my Mini has 4GB of ram and a 500GB hard drive.
> 
> I say somewhat surprised, but not totally. Perhaps Apple has applied the 7
> year rule. Put simply the powers that be feel it is time for me to join
> Apple's gravy train and spend some cash in their direction. Not a chance Mr
> Cook. I shall run this little baby up to, and beyond, the point where my
> smoke alarms start going off.
> 
> I often hear the argument that Apple only use the very best components in
> their devices. Very good, but what is the point if the device has to go on
> the scrap heap half a century before the components might even consider
> giving up the ghost. Not a lot in my humble opinion. So much for
> conservation and getting the best out of limited resources.
> All the best from the last of the Neanderthals somewhere in the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
Have a great day,
Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com




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Apple kills my little mini with Sierra

[Martin Brown]

I have tried to download Sierra using my 2009 Mac Mini, but was informed
that my device was not compatible. I am somewhat surprised at this because
my Mini has 4GB of ram and a 500GB hard drive.

I say somewhat surprised, but not totally. Perhaps Apple has applied the 7
year rule. Put simply the powers that be feel it is time for me to join
Apple's gravy train and spend some cash in their direction. Not a chance Mr
Cook. I shall run this little baby up to, and beyond, the point where my
smoke alarms start going off.

I often hear the argument that Apple only use the very best components in
their devices. Very good, but what is the point if the device has to go on
the scrap heap half a century before the components might even consider
giving up the ghost. Not a lot in my humble opinion. So much for
conservation and getting the best out of limited resources.
All the best from the last of the Neanderthals somewhere in the UK.



-- 
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list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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